Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

Ukraine: Most of Severodonetsk Under Russian Control; Separatist: First Trail Cars with Grain Leave Melitopol; PGA Tour Suspends Players Participating in Liv Golf; New World Bank Report Warns of Recession & Stagflation; European Central Bank: Rate Hikes Coming Next Month; "Balloon Monkey" Sculpture could bring in $12M for Ukraine. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 09, 2022 - 11:00   ET




ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN, London. This is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Becky Anderson in London. Hello and welcome back to "Connect the World". It is a busy hour of news. We begin with this

just in to CNN in the last hour death sentences handed down for two British citizens and a Moroccan man in a pro-Russian caught in what's known as the

Donetsk People's Republic in Eastern Ukraine.

Russian media reporting that the three men are being accused of being mercenaries. We're also learning that Ukrainian fighters could be on the

ropes in Eastern Ukraine. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the fate of the entire Donbas region is being decided in Severodonetsk this comes as

local officials say Russia now controls most of that key eastern city.

I want to bring in CNN's Salma Abdelaziz live for us from the Ukrainian Capital. Let's start with what is breaking news here. What do we know about

these three men sentenced to death?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: So let's just start with who they are? 28- year-old Aiden Aslin a British national 48-year-old Shaun Pinner also a British national and Brahim Saaudun a Moroccan national. All three men

claim that they were members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and they say they should be protected of course as prisoners of war under the Geneva


Now, the Donetsk People's Republic this independent separatist's breakaway state that is only recognized by Russia and not recognized by the

international community has accused these men of being mercenaries of planning acts of terrorism.

Now the story in particular of Aiden and Shun Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner has been splashed across the UK media now for months. Aiden Aslin's family

has accused Russian forces of beating him of breaking violating Geneva Conventions of torturing him.

There was video released weeks after they were captured in these three men just to clarify were captured in Mariupol in April where they were fighting

alongside Ukrainian Armed Forces. That's according to British officials according to their families. They were captured in April fighting alongside

Ukrainian Armed Forces. Aiden Aslin's family accusing this Russian backed separatist violating Geneva Conventions of beaten Aiden Aslin. Of course,

their fate is now something of high concern for British officials.

We have reached out to the families for comment they have yet to respond. UK officials say they are doing everything they can to try to bring these

men to safety and watch groups say that the Donetsk People's Republic separate sparked government has an appalling record of human rights.

They appeared again these three men in a prison in a detention facility in what appeared to in a court essentially being handed down these sentences.

Human rights groups are concerned that they're essentially being used here as a token by Russian forces as a bartering chip, if you will. We'll wait

to find out more on their fate, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. Yes. Stay on the story for us. Thank you for that. Ukraine's military says to win this war; it needs more powerful

longer-range weapons. It's getting new shipments from the U.S. and from NATO allies.

But we are hearing the one piece of artillery has indeed had a devastating impact on Russian positions, CNN's Matthew Chance reports, from close to

the frontline in Southern Ukraine, have a look at this.


MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL COREESPONDENT (voice-over): These are just some of the powerful American guns now on the Ukrainian front

lines, meant to make a critical difference in the war with Russia, because they might be targeted at any moment.

Media access to them is highly sensitive and rare.

CHANCE (on camera): All right. Well, we've been taken here, very close to the frontlines in Southern Ukraine, where we're being shown these U.S.

provided long range artillery systems; it's an M777, according to Ukrainian military officials that we've spoken to.

The U.S. has so far supplied approximately 90 of these weapons, and many of them are already being used on the frontline, including in this area here

in the south of Ukraine, pounding Russian positions.

CHANCE (voice-over): We were only shown a training exercise, but Ukrainian military officials say these are exclusive images of the same weapons in

action just this week, firing on Russian forces more than 20 miles away.

Including on this grad multiple rocket launcher; they say had been targeting civilian areas. Ukrainian aerial footage shows the grad being

destroyed its ammunition exploding after a direct hit. Ukrainian artillery troops say their guns are now giving them an edge and their Russian

counterparts are feeling the pain.


LT. IVAN SUROV, UKRAINIAN ARMY: Yes, they definitely noticed as we became faster and more precise, they are not able to keep up with us as they're

operating old Soviet guns, which are heavier, less precise, slower and difficult to use. These guns are objectively the best in the world. And

when we started using them, our efficiency rose tremendously.

CHANCE (on camera): It's giving the Ukrainian military an advantage, they say, on the battlefield, because these weapons are much lighter, much more

accurate than they've used before much more mobile as well.

And it's giving them the edge, they say to try and help them push back Russian forces all along this region. But of course, the complaint if

there, if you can call it a complaint is that they want more of it. They want more weapons like this. And they want even longer range rocket

systems, which have already been promised, of course by the United States to push back the Russians even further.

CHANCE (voice-over): And Ukrainian authorities are likely to need more guns still, to hold them back with no end to this conflict. The demand for U.S.

weapons may be endless too, Matthew Chance CNN, in Southern Ukraine.


ANDERSON: Well, on day 106 of this war, another big number is emerging 47 million. That is how many more people the war in Ukraine could push into

acute food insecurity according to the United Nations. Now that comes on top of 276 million people the World Food Programme estimates were already

facing acute hunger before this war began.

And this is important because according to Ukraine's President, it's not just the war itself that is causing this food crisis. President Zelenskyy

is accusing Russia of stealing Ukraine's grain which much of the world depends on of course; you can see the numbers here on your screen.

Russia has vehemently denied those accusations and a Russian backed leader in Ukraine says the first rail cars carrying Ukrainian grain from the

occupied city of Melitopol left for Crimea. He says he hopes the grain finds its way to Turkey and to the Middle East.

Well, my next guest says and I quote this war has no winner. The impact of the war in Ukraine across the region and the world is far reaching. Food

insecurity is set to become even more worrying with 1.7 billion people at risk of increased poverty due to this crisis.

Amin Awad the UN Crisis Coordinator for Ukraine joins me now live from the Capital Kyiv. There are a number of big numbers here and you're on the

ground. Is there evidence? Have you seen evidence that Russia is stealing Ukrainian grain?

AMIN AWAD, U.N. CRISIS COORDINATOR FOR UKRAINE: Well, we get this information from open sources. We don't have a mechanism to really verify

this. We're not in these areas where this incident may have happened. But I think the picture is bigger than the 400,000 to 500,000 that I've heard.

What we have at stake here is 20 million tonnes of Ukrainian food, that's grain that needs to be exported. This country produces up to 80 million

tonnes of grain a year, between last year and until February 40 to 50 million tonnes have been transported now we have 20 million tonnes that

have to be transported to really continue feeding the world and the 20 something countries that depend on Ukrainian grain.

ANDERSON: And that 20 million tonnes of Ukrainian grain sitting in silos waiting to be exported and as you rightly pointed out, that puts -- that

staying where it is puts not just Ukrainians but the rest of the world in a really difficult position as far as food security is concerned.

Russia has said that the first rail cars carrying some of that Ukrainian grain from the occupied city of Melitopol has left for Crimea, and they say

that's in the hopes of reaching Turkey and the Middle East. Again, let's just drill down on what we know at this point. Is that something that you

can confirm that that half a million tonnes of grain is actually on the move?

AWAD: Well, that's what I hear in the news. I cannot -- I do not have a mechanism really to confirm this. But what I can tell you is that's a drop

in the ocean if you look at that also from here from this side Ukraine start to export grain through Poland and other countries trying to reach

the Black Sea or the Baltic Sea to export.

But that is 10 percent of what they really export every year. This country needs 100 ships to transport amongst 100 ships -- transport and 5 million

tonnes a month. So it is seven ports in the Black Sea. That's what happened traditionally.

And that needs to continue -- that need to resume. Now the negotiation is between Russia and Ukraine by the U.N. and with Turkey also having being

also a mediator and an observer in all of this. So we really hope that this deal concludes very quickly.

And the food is not -- the war in Ukraine did not only aggravate the food crisis, it aggravated also an energy crisis, financial currency crisis, and

a supply chain crisis. Or if you combine all of those, we really have a disaster in the making. And this needs to be really sorted out as soon as


And it does not only depend on the convergences, not only the Ukrainian grain. Also Russia should explore it is food and it is fertilizer. That's

another shortage that the world is facing fertilizers. So the world is not in a good place.

When you look at finances, when we look at inflation, between 9 percent to 13 percent, shortage of food, no fertilizers, what's going to happen

between now the end of the year and what's going to happen given next year?


AWAD: So this is effort of everybody and this issue ought to be depoliticize and space should be given to the United Nation initiative by

Secretary General and other entities that involved in this for this really to go forward as soon as possible. There is no time to waste really, and

winter is around the corner.

ANDERSON: The accusation is that Russia is using food as a weapon of war. That is a serious accusation. Do you agree with that assessment?

AWAD: Well, you see the accusation and counter accusation at the time, what we're trying to come up with a very pragmatic solution real -- for the real

issues that the world is facing. It is I cannot read, I cannot really comment on each side, you know, posture as far as all of this.

But I know that the world has agreed, including Russia on the one hand and the rest, that there ought to be a solution to the food crisis and the

fertilizer crisis so that we do not have a serious problem in the world today.

So I hope that really happens. And I want to concentrate really and focus on the issues before us with a view to really find solution, practical

solutions, operational ones, so that we can see the ships coming back to the Black Sea and sailing away with millions of tonnes of--

ANDERSON: I understand that you -- I know that you could answer that question with an assessment. I understand that you don't want to at this

point. But let's then discuss what you believe, can or should happen next?

47 million more people could become acutely in food insecure, from this war that's on top of more than 250 million who were already food insecure

before this war, those numbers are absolutely horrific. What is your plan the UN's plan to fix this?

AWAD: Horrifying numbers. And as I said if the situation is aggravate -- this is what we know now. But if the situation continues with this impasse

continues for more weeks or months, the situation would be worse. And the 1.7 billion people that the -- report talked about could be a reality now.

We are in fragile states, states in transition states with high population, the big numbers that we have seen in Africa and Asia, those who are also

importing food from Ukraine include Egypt, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, these are countries with a sizable number of population and the countries

that are importing Ukraine food are all middle income or low income countries.

So the situation will be horrible and will be compounded also, not only because of the food crisis because of the war, energy. Yes, food shortages,

financial disruptions, supply chain disruptions, all of that is going to really contribute to -- crisis that the world will take the brunt of it.

And not only the development -- think all corners of the world will have that.

Also, as I said earlier, very clear that the sanctions do not include the exempt food in this war and between the parties including Russia as far as

food and fertilizers.


AWAD: And these have to really also be put into the overall context of shortage of food, famine on our doorsteps and disruption of services when

it comes to supply chain, and distribution of food. So the stakes are very high and they ought to be a solution to this.

Here in Ukraine, we're also facing other challenges. We are entering winter in about 10 weeks' time; there was disruption to power supply. We need

fuel, electricity, what have you? We have 14 million people displaced internally and externally, the first source of the service disruption for

we haven't seen in history and also, if not even during World War II.

And people will be facing freezing winter. We have to think of alternative energy sources. We have to think of winter winterization we're expecting up

to 5 million people to be exposed in many areas of Ukraine. So we really -- gigantic -- you see that we have to work around.

ANDERSON: Sir, you've got a lot to do on the ground. We appreciate your time. I appreciate you being as candid as you feel you can be. It's clearly

a deteriorating situation and one that needs urgent attention. Thank you for joining us this hour.

I want to move on at this point; Iran turning off more than two dozen cameras that give international monitors access to its nuclear program. Now

the Head of the International Atomic Energy Agency says this could deal a "Fatal blow" to the Iran Nuclear Agreement.

Teheran released this video showing monitoring cameras being turned off at nuclear sites earlier; the IEA Chief Rafael Grossi says Iran is planning to

remove 27 of these cameras at sites. And Iran says it has already started expanding its underground uranium enrichment. Now Grossi told me last hour

that there is a three to four week window to salvage the monitoring. And indeed, the deal itself has a listen.


RAFAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: My estimation is not a political one is a technical one; my estimation is

based on the relative time we can afford to not have access to this type of information. In other words, the amount of time we can have with the

centrifuges spinning with the heavy water production continuing with the construction and assembly of centrifuges ongoing without us having a view

on that.

ANDERSON: And your view would be what? Your view would be what if they allowed doing that without verification?

GROSSI: Let me explain. We could more or less reconstruct. We could more or less reconstruct what may have happened. But these projections are

something that you do for a relatively short period of time. You cannot go for months and months without any access without any information and then

say well, you know, there is this amount probably.

So this is why we're saying three, four weeks are something we could handle. So it's not a political -- I leave this to the politicians. This is

a technical assessment by the IAEA.


ANDERSON: Well, that was the IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi speaking with me last hour. Well ahead on the show the UK is planning to deport

asylum seekers to Rwanda is being challenged in court but with the first planeload set to depart next week, we'll look at how Rwanda is preparing?



ANDERSON: Well, an update now on a major development from the world of golf. The PGA Tour has suspended golfers taking part in the new Saudi

backed Liv Tournament as it's known. This first ever Liv Golf Event kicked off near London just a short time ago and it involves some of the biggest

names in golf.

Alex Thomas joining me now live from St. Albans, England. We have heard in the past hour that the PGA has suspended a number of golfers. These are

really high profile characters. And what more do we know just how significant is this?

ALEX THOMAS, CNN WORLD SPORT: Hugely significant Becky. You know, at some stage organizers of this new Liv Golf Series will want us to start talking

about the golf. But that day is not today after the men's professional game broke out into all out civil war of words.

We knew that in advance of this launch, the PGA Tour had not granted permission for players to come and play in it. They certainly are directing

their ire at the billions of dollars of Saudi Arabian money that is backing this project.

And that's why in this nine paragraph two page memo from the PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan, to his current players, the ones that have stayed

loyal to the PGA Tour, there was one clear focus let me read you a bit of this very long woefully memo that's full of simmering rage.

It says I'm certain our fans and partners who were surely tired of all this talk of money, money and more money will continue to be entertained and

compelled by the world class competition you display each and every week.

The top line of the memo was that all the players that have jumped ship, we banned from all PGA Tour competitions, even the ones that quit their

membership before playing here. The Liv Golf response was swift. And just as vitriolic.

They said today's announcement by the PGA Tour is vindictive, and it deepens the divide between the tour and its members. It's troubling that

the tour an organization dedicated to creating opportunities for golfers to play the game. Is the entity blocking golfers from playing?

This certainly is not the last word on this topic. The era of free agency is beginning as we are proud to have a full field of players joining us in

London and beyond. There's no doubt from that final paragraph and sentence Becky, this is heading for the courts.

ANDERSON: Alex Thomas is -- well he's at the event and as he says so in the event itself would like to start talking about golf as soon as these

golfers teed off on the first day this from the PGA thank you.

Well, campaigners in the UK are launching a court bid to block the government's plans to send asylum seekers to Rwanda. The British government

is planning to fly the first planeload of those asylum seekers to the African nation next week. Human rights groups and a civil service trade

union and signee an injunction to keep that plane from leaving they say the policy is not lawful.

Well, CNN's Larry Madowo is in the Capital of Rwanda, in Kigali. And you got a firsthand look at how Rwanda is preparing for these asylum seekers?

What have you learned?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, we went to this hostel here in Kigali, where the migrants are expected the first ones will be living, and

it's not a five star hotel, but it's not a dump either. They will have full board accommodation, cleaning food, some entertainment and prayer rooms and

computer labs.

And the UK and Rwanda believe this is the way to reform a broken asylum system and break the business of people smugglers even though there's a lot

of opposition to it, but this is what it looks like.


MADOWO (voice-over): These are the final touches at Hope Hostel in Kigali before the first migrants deported from the UK arrive.

MADOWO (on camera): And so this is the new place waiting for the migrants.

MADOWO (voice-over): This building that until recently housed the young survivors of the Rwandan genocide have a new purpose.


MADOWO (voice-over): This newly renovated hostel can host up to 100 people to a room and sharing communal bathrooms.

MADOWO (on camera): So this is one type of room?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is the one sample room of amenities there are towels and iron boxes you've got change of sheets.

MADOWO (voice-over): This is where the migrants will live under the watchful eye of Rwandan authorities. The hostel is functional, not

luxurious, but the Rwandan government says the migrants will be free here, not in detention, like in the UK.

Officials there are also promising health care and support for at least five years, or until they're self-sufficient. But the plan has been widely

criticized by many refugee rights groups in the UK, internationally and here in Rwanda. The main opposition party here says Rwanda shouldn't have

to bear the UK's burden.


MADOWO (on camera): So do you think the UK is violating its international obligations by passing data off to Rwanda?

NIEZIMANA: Yes. And we don't see why? We are still struggling over having enough infrastructure electricity, water, roads, schools, hospitals, we are

not dissimilar, UK, we have to think twice.

MADOWO (voice-over): Rwanda and the UK expect this migrant scheme to disrupt the business of people smugglers, but many international bodies,

even the UK rank Rwanda poorly on some human rights indicators. Critics also say accepting migrants rich countries don't want is cruel and


YOLANDE MAKOLO, RWANDA GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: It's cruel, and it's inhumane that people are dying in the desert trying to cross the desert,

making these dangerous journeys, drowning in the Mediterranean. We're interested in protecting vulnerable people. And this has been our

philosophy for the last 30 years.

MADOWO (voice-over): Rwanda has also welcomed refugees and asylum seekers evacuated from Libya, after unsuccessfully trying to cross to Europe.

Orientation has started for the latest arrivals at the Gashora Emergency Transit Center. They're mostly from the Horn of Africa.

MADOWO (on camera): How do you compare the conditions in the four years you spent in Libya and here in Rwanda?

ZEMEN FESAHA, REFUGEE AT GASHORA EMERGENCY TRANSIT CENTER: It is difficult to compare it because we can see from health--

MADOWO (on camera): Being in Libya to one is that from coming from hell to heaven?


MADOWO (voice-over): Zemen is grateful for the peace and freedom in Rwanda. But it's still not his destination of choice. None of the people we spoke

to -- wanted to stay even though it's one of the options.

MADOWO (on camera): Your final goal is still to go to Europe?


MADOWO (voice-over): Rwanda has become the global market leader in migrant offshoring after the UK scheme a deal with Denmark is in the works. It

helps clean up Rwanda's image internationally, but some accuse it of trying to paint over a dark reputation.


MADOWO: Becky, one of the criticisms of this Rwanda migrant deal with the UK is the best people are being forced to come here. They went to the UK

for a reason they shouldn't be shipped 4000 miles away. The other one is that this goes against international law. But Rwandan authorities tell us

there is nothing in the Refugee Convention that stops migrants from being shipped to another safe country.

ANDERSON: Larry Madowo on the story for you, thank you. All right, number of competing stories today, and you would expect that here on what is a

busy news show. One of our top stories death sentences handed down for two British citizens and a Moroccan man in a pro-Russian caught in what is

known as the Donetsk People's Republic in Eastern Ukraine.

The British Foreign Secretary has just tweeted this and I quote, I utterly condemn the sentences of Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner held by Russian

proxies in eastern Ukraine. They are prisoners of war. This is a sham judgment with absolutely no legitimacy. My thoughts are with the families

we continue to do everything we can to support them.

And we will of course keep you across this story for any further developments just before help us for here in London. Still ahead as the

European Central Bank signals rate hike next month, fueled in part by the war in Ukraine we'll speak to a Former Chief Economist at the IMF about the

state of the global economy.



ANDERSON: For the first time in more than a decade, the European Central Bank plans to hike interest rates. The ECB says it will likely raise rates

by a quarter of one percentage point next month to rein in soaring inflation. It also announced significant cuts to its growth forecast

sparked by the war in Ukraine.


CHRISTINE LAGARDE, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: Russia's unjustified aggression towards Ukraine continues to weigh on the economy in Europe and

beyond. It is disrupting trade is leading to shortages of materials and is contributing to high energy and commodity prices. These factors will

continue to weigh on confidence and dampen growth, especially in the near term.


ANDERSON: Well, that war affecting economic progress worldwide and the World Bank warns things are going to get worse before they get better. It's

just the latest group to sound the alarm on a potential global recession.

The bank cutting its growth estimate for this year even further last year, the global economy grew 5.7 percent this year's growth estimate is now

sharply lower to less than 3 percent. The bank blames a number of problems, including the risk of stagflation.

What's that? Well, stagflation is a phenomenon that combines stagnant economic growth, with high inflation and high unemployment continuing

challenges such as the war in Ukraine supply chain issues.

And the continuing waves of Coronavirus cases are harming both consumers and employers and could send world markets into a downturn. The World Bank

President cautions it could be the worst slowdown in years?


DAVID MALPASS, PRESIDENT, WORLD BANK: The sharpness of the slowdown is really concerning. We think it's the biggest slowdown of the global economy

in 80 years, I think many countries will see a recession in this cycle.


ANDERSON: Well, those are ominous words, aren't they? The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development as the OECD also slashing its growth

forecast. Its prediction very close to the World Bank's theory OECD's 2022 forecast fell from four and a half percent to 3 percent. With a similar

pace expected next year.

The organization says and I quote the world is set to see or pay a hefty price for Russia's war against Ukraine. It Secretary General and appeared

on CNN yesterday and explained that price.


MATTHIAS CORMANN, SECRETARY- GENERAL, OECD: Earlier this year, economic growth was returning to normal and in the recovery from COVID had been

relatively strong and rapid. Yes, it was uneven.

And there were also still some downside risks remaining with the pandemic. But you know, the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine is causing a

significant supply shock and does having a significant negative effect on growth and it is pushing up inflation higher and for longer.


ANDERSON: Energy prices one of the major issues dragging the global economy low or they are of course pointing higher too. Well financial giant Goldman

Sachs predicting Brent Crude will average $140 a barrel over the next three months up from 120 now.


ANDERSON: The war in Ukraine has prompted many countries to stop buying Russian oil meaningless of it's on the market which pushes up prices. Oil

industry experts also point to low reserves and low output even though OPEC is promising a modest bump in production.

Well, Goldman Sachs says that will be the story until the last quarter of 2022 and finally adding to the global economic woes COVID-19 lockdowns now

they may seem slightly unfamiliar these days, but of course China is trying to its best to reopen its biggest cities.

But today authorities in Beijing largest district announced the closure of all entertainment venues just days after easing restrictions. That setback

due to three new locally transmitted COVID cases linked to a bar. Shanghai also hitting some snags and its reopening residents.

They're facing new targeted lockdowns after a small outbreak and a hair salon the struggle ongoing in China to get money flowing again. And to a

certain extent, you know, what happens in China these days has such an impact on the global economy used to be that.

You know, when America sneezes, everybody else caught a cold. But when you consider that the Chinese economy has been closed effectively for some time

that has a massive impact on what happens elsewhere. The difficulties we've spoken about affecting people in every corner of the globe and causing civil strife. On this show we've looked at Italy, at

China, the United States many more connecting them all the war in Ukraine, rising inflation, COVID-19 and energy prices.

If anyone can sort this entire out it's Maurice Obstfeld. He's the Former Chief Economist at the International Monetary Fund. And he joins us now

from Berkeley in California.

Honestly didn't expect if you had asked me this time last year that we will be considering the sorts of issues that you and I will be discussing today.

First, let's start with action that is being taken the ECB hiking interest rates for the first time in more than a decade. How significant is this?

MAURICE OBSTFELD, THE FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST AT THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: It's usually significant. The ECB has had negative interest rates for

eight years the struggle for much of that time has been to get inflation to target and to support growth.

And now they're facing a perfect storm kind of situation in which there are strong contractionary forces coming from higher energy prices from the

uncertainty surrounding the war from food prices.

Yet with inflation, having risen even before this and now rising more sharply, the ECB is forced to worry about those inflationary expectations

becoming entrenched. And perhaps requiring a much bigger recession later on to them so now they're raising interest rates in the face of contractionary

forces and there will be a slowdown and possibly a recession in the Euro Zone as a result.

ANDERSON: We have heard from the World Bank President, he has said, we are facing the worst global slowdown, possibly in 80 years. Do you agree with

his assessment?

OBSTFELD: Well, I think that that's a little a little hyperbolic. We've had some pretty massive global slowdowns in the in the past, for example, in

the in the early 1980's, as the Fed, stepped on the monetary breaks.

And created a situation of higher global interest rates that indeed helped because the debt crisis, the last decade of the 1980's in many developing

countries. But the situation now is somewhat analogous to what we were facing then, especially because many countries in the developing world have

higher debt levels than before COVID and are therefore more vulnerable.

ANDERSON: We've talked about how the war in Ukraine is just exacerbating what was already a very difficult situation? And when I say a very

difficult economy, you know, to a certain extent, it was you know, there were there, there were differences between the global south and the global

North. But this war in Ukraine, it feels like this is the most globally interconnected issue right now, is it?

OBSTFELD: Well, indeed, it is worsening trends that were in place even before the war namely higher energy prices higher food prices which were

already threatening slowdowns and social instability in poorer countries, and it magnifies them.


OBSTFELD: This is such a regressive shock in the sense that higher energy prices, higher food prices affect the poor most strongly. And that's what

raises this risk of social instability in poor countries.

ANDERSON: Let's talk about what can be done. It does seem extraordinary that, you know, time and again, I'm hearing from central bankers, you know

people in charge of monetary policy who say they are helpless at this point.

You know, this is sort of them facing the unknown, they are employed to, you know, understand where the levers can be turned, in order to ensure

that the rest of us can cope on our daily, do you feel that those in charge of policy around the world?

And I'm thinking about central bankers specifically here are equipped to do their jobs at present? I have to say, I mean, you were -- you worked in the

IMF for four years. Does the IMF the World Bank, do you see are these organizations fit for purpose at this point, given what we are facing?

OBSTFELD: Well, central bankers have tools which allow them to deal with financial crises, as we saw during COVID and in the great financial crisis,

at the end of the first decade of this millennium.

They can support the economy, but their primary mandate in many cases is this price stability, if that's consistent with supporting the economy,

great, but right now, their problem is that there's actually a tradeoff between getting inflation down and supporting economic activity.

As the ECB raises rates, for example, that will have a contractionary effect in a situation where we already have uncertainty and high energy and

food prices weighing on economic growth.

But it's not that central banks are not fit for purpose, it's that you need a range of other policy tools to deal with this, for example, fiscal

policy, governments need to step in to offset the effect of some of these shocks on the most vulnerable in the economy, trade policy.

Trade Ministers will be meeting in Geneva next week about two dozen countries have imposed some form of export restriction on food products,

which only serves to raise global prices, further India, among them.

So if countries could agree to forswear such measures that would help a lot. So I wouldn't put it all on central banks, you really need a broad

governmental response, which also requires cooperation by governments importantly, and that's something that's been in short supply recently,

during the pandemic.

ANDERSON: All right. Listen that is a story that isn't going away it's good to have you on your insight and analysis is very important. And get we'll

do this again sadly, I'm sure. Thank you. Just ahead, protecting vulnerable penguins so rescuers say these adorable birds seem to have an attitude

problem, which doesn't always help that cause. Yep, we're stepping back, got a "Call to Earth" coming up.



ANDERSON: New Zealand's rugged coastline is home to some of the world's most endangered species of penguins. They are cute, but these sassy birds

have a vicious bite according to experts who are trying to protect. CNN's Kristie Lu Stout takes a look at the team treating these adorable but

threatened animals.


KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN AMERICAN JOURNALIST (voice-over): New Zealand South Island coast on 150 acres of private land penguin place is a rescue and

rehabilitation center for sick, starving and injured penguins. It's also a haven for this native endangered species.

JASON VAN ZANTEN, CONSERVATION MANAGER: Kiwi is Maori word for yellow eyed penguin and it means noisy shouter. So chances are if you are going to see

one, you'll hear them screaming at each other. They are the world's only solitary species of penguin, so they don't like each other.

STOUT (voice-over): They don't seem to like human contact either says Penguin Plays Conservation Manager Jason Van Zanten.

ZANTEN: Believe it or not, the yellow eyed penguins aren't cute and cuddly like they look. They have a really vicious bite and that can do quite a bit

of damage.

STOUT (voice-over): Many of these birds come to penguin place from the Dunedin Wildlife Hospital nearby with they're under the care of founder and

director Dr. Lisa Argilla.

DR. LISA ARGILLA, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR DUNEDIN WILDLIFE HOSPITAL: I love penguins. They're quite sassy little individuals. They will have your own

individual personalities as well.

STOUT (voice-over): This is a Fiordland crested Penguin or Tamaki. It's one of New Zealand's rarest mainland penguin species.

ARGILLA: Lover New Zealand penguins are in such strife reaching with levels of being endangered just trying to save these guys as best we can to stop

them becoming extinct.

STOUT (voice-over): Dr. Argilla and her team treat up to 50 Penguins here per season.

ARGILLA: Most of the injuries we see are actually predator related to this guy has got what we would be consistent with a nasty gash ruins a little

bit of feet from a barracuda current yes, climate change is definitely having an impact on the temperatures of the ocean and what fish are around

and where they're dispersing. So that could be why we're seeing more injuries.

STOUT (voice-over): At penguin place, these young birds are feeling the effects of climate change. Unable to find enough food in the ocean due to

rising sea temperatures, as well as fishing practices Van Zanten and says around 80 percent come in underweight and need fattening up.

VAN ZANTEN: These birds have been declining a lot recently, in the last 10 or so years, we've lost about three quarters or 75 percent of the

population. So that's a lot really, really quickly. Humans also have a big part to play a lot of our public beaches.

Unfortunately do have a lot of foot traffic on it. And we cause a lot of disturbance for these birds. Private reserves like this are really

important for the species ongoing. The work we're doing is absolutely critical for these guys and their survival here on the mainland. So 95

percent of the birds that come into us are successfully released back out into the wild.

STOUT (voice-over): For Van Zenten things are looking up before the full recovery of these penguin species its baby steps.

ARGILLA: You can do it. Penguins like sentiment species for the ocean. They're the ones that are going to be affected by climate change first and

the most. They're screaming at us to say that the climate is a disaster.


ARGILLA: Now we've just got to hope that the human race can listen to them because we don't want to miss these guys.


ANDERSON: Let us know what you are doing to answer the call; #calltoearth is how you can do that. We will be right back after this short break.


ANDERSON: Well, after 11 months of secretive work and hundreds of depositions today, we're going to get the first details of the findings

from what is it a special committee investigating the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol.

The American public and indeed the rest of the world can tune in to watch his that panel begins to lay out its case on primetime TV. It plans to use

his first of at least six hearings to make the case that former President Donald Trump was at the center of a coordinated multi step effort to

overturn Joe Biden's 2020 election win.

This committee is expected to present never seen before material documenting January the sixth clips of taped interviews with Trump

Administration officials and family members and live witnesses who had an up close view of the rioters.

Well, you can tune in for live coverage of the January 6th Committee hearings starts tonight 7 pm Thursday in Washington. That is midnight here

in London or three in the morning on Friday if you are watching, for example, in Abu Dhabi, where the show is normally broadcast from that is

right here on CNN.

Well, as U.S. President Joe Biden host more than 20 leaders from the Western Hemisphere in Los Angeles for what is plugged the Summit of the

Americas. Venezuela's leader has made a hasty trip to Turkey to meet with his counterpart there.

Venezuela one of the countries along with Nicaragua and Cuba are excluded from this summit over their human rights records. Well, Mexico is still

attending the summit but under protest according to the President. He has sent lower ranking government officials in his place.

President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador says that they do not accept the exclusion of anyone with more CNN's, Patrick Oppmann, joining me live from

Havana in Cuba.

Maduro might be seen by some to be missing out on a big party effectively in Los Angeles. But I'm sure you argue that the real party is in Turkey at

this point. I do wonder what the perspective is where you are in Havana.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Becky, as some of us remember from high school, all too well, when you're not invited to the big

party. You say you already had other plans.

And that appears to be what is happening with Nicolas Maduro showing up unexpectedly in Turkey certainly a meeting with the President, Turkish

president or the one that the U.S. would love to have more detail.

I would love would love to have more details about because I have a very interesting history, With Turkey buying Venezuelan gold with Venezuelan oil

being -- the oil industry being on the rebound. Maduro has landed day now in charge in Algeria.

And it's remains to be seen where he goes from here, but we saw Cuba's President Miguel Diaz yesterday said that he was honored not to be included

at the summit. So, you know, certainly for some of these countries, it's now a badge of honor, that as you said that where they are is really the

most important place to be.


ANDERSON: Patrick, thank you. Our parting shots tonight meet "Balloon Monkey". One of the latest art pieces set to go on sale to raise money for

Ukraine crafted by one of the world's most renowned Sculptors Jeff Koons, the sculpture could bring in up to $12.5 million.

Now that money raised will go to wounded soldiers and civilians in need as prosthetics, rehabilitation and medical treatment. A fitting calls for a

sculpture that Koons describes as representing hope, affirmation and transcendence. Well, art lovers can feast their eyes on "Balloon Monkey"

starting next Tuesday at Christie's in London, the piece goes under the hammer two weeks later. Well, of course. Thank you for watching wherever

you are in the world that was "Connect the World". CNN's coverage of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and other top stories continues after this

short break.