Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Lawyer of Migrants Caught in Deportation Plan talks to CNN; Ukraine: Forces in Sievierodonetsk struggle for Control; ECB Pledges "Flexibility" to Combat Bond Market Stress; UK Pushes ahead with Rwanda Deportation Plan; K-Pop Superstars BTS Promise to Return after "Haitus"; British MP Slams the "Depravity of Putin's Regime". Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 15, 2022 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST: And a 11th hour reprieve the inaugural flight of a controversial UK government plan to send refugees to Rwanda was stopped but
is the scheme gone for good? We explore this hour. Hello everyone. I'm Zain Asher filling in for Becky Anderson. Welcome back to "Connect the World".
The UK government standing firmly behind its deportation plan right now that's despite the first migrant flight to Rwanda being stopped in its
tracks minutes before departure. Well, the European Court of Human Rights intervened. Britain's Home Secretary says she's disappointed but plans for
the next flights are already in the works. Priti Patel coming up against some fierce pushback in Parliament today when she vowed the government
would plow ahead with the scheme.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRITI PATEL, BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: Indeed, we are proud that we are working together proud that the UK is investing in Rwanda and helping that
great country to thrive and proud that those who are relocated to Rwanda will have an opportunity to thrive as well.
YVETTE COOPER, BRITISH SHADOW HOME SECRETARY: It is government by gimmick? It's not in the public interest. It's just in their political interest. And
what are they prepared to trash along the way people's lives are basic British values of fairness, decency and common sense on the reputation of
our nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Nada Bashir has been speaking to migrants across the English Channel in France. She joins us live now from Paris. So Nada yesterday's flight
canceled because of a legal setback. Essentially, the European Court of Human Rights intervened what more can you tell us about the cancellation?
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yep, we have been learning more details. Just over the last few hours from the Home Secretary Priti Patel confirming that
three asylum seekers who were due to be on that flight out from the UK to Rwanda last night were removed from the flight their deportation notes is
cancelled because of that intervention by the European Court of Human Rights.
But I have to say these are just some of the asylum seekers who have had their deportation notice cancelled. We were expecting more than 100 people
to be on that flight originally. So we saw that first legal challenge at the High Court on Friday. And since that day, we saw those numbers
dwindling down to just seven yesterday.
And the information we've been hearing from these advocacy groups that have been representing the asylum seekers is that European Court of Human Rights
challenged their late last night, a gateway and allow for time for lawyers representing the rest of those set to be deported to submit last minute
applications.
And we have seen all of those who had received notice have those notes as either postponed or canceled for varying reasons. But the overriding reason
that we're hearing from rights groups is that there needs to be more time for these asylum seekers to have their claims challenged in the courts to
put forward a legal challenge and of course, also for the policy as a whole to be challenged.
We do expect that legal challenge in July looking at not whether or not this is lawful. But as you heard that from the Home Secretary she has
reiterated that despite the criticism that the government has faced in colander, they will be pushing ahead with this policy. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATEL: We believe that we are fully compliant with our domestic and international obligations and preparations for our future flights and the
next flights have already begun. This government will not be deterred from doing the right thing. We will not be put off by the inevitable legal last
minute challenges, nor we will allow mobs Madam Deputy Speaker to block removals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASHIR: So not surprising, the government has been expecting those legal challenges and as you heard there already preparing for those next flight
to take off once legally approved. But I have to say that the opposition that the government has been facing isn't just from the Labour Party or
other parliamentarians.
We have heard from the UN's Refugee Agency describing this policy as unlawful Human Rights Watch warning that Rwanda exhibits an appalling human
rights record and even the Church of England describing the policy set out by the government as immoral Zain.
ASHER: Nada Bashir live for us there. As you mentioned, Priti Patel certainly determined to push ahead with another flight. Alright, thank you
so much. My next guest represents a man due to be flown to Rwanda.
Frances Swaine says the government should consider whether these flights are worth it financially or legally before attempting another one. Francis
joins us live now. So Frances, thank you so much for being with us. Obviously, you can't reveal your client's identity.
And of course you want to respect that but what can you tell us about what he was fleeing from the sorts of conditions he was leaving behind in his
home country and also his hopes to resettle in the UK?
FRANCES SWAINE, HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: So our client is claiming himself victim of human trafficking or modern slavery and enforced labor during
that period of trafficking and also has signs of torture in his previous homeland.
[11:05:00]
SWAINE: His hopes for the future will make its way to the United Kingdom and to claim asylum.
ASHER: And what has his reaction been about the prospect of now being forced to head to Rwanda potentially?
SWAINE: Well, he was very upset. It was a great shock to him. It was not the country where you had hoped to claim asylum. We all have every member
on of the global planet has the opportunity to claim asylum if we're being persecuted in our own homelands.
And he was making his way to the United Kingdom. It wasn't so much Rwanda per se, but for him, it was the United Kingdom that he wanted to claim in.
And therefore he was very frightened of being sent on anywhere else. He's had a hard journey getting here in the first place. And there wasn't
another country that he had chosen.
ASHER: Right. So it's nothing to do with Rwanda, nothing personally against Rwanda. It's just that he had his heart set on the UK. So now that the
first flight has been canceled, what's next?
SWAINE: What's next for the country? Or what's next for my client?
ASHER: I'm sorry, for your client.
SWAINE: Not so right. I mean, they're both very valid questions. Well, for my client, he's been returned to one of the detention centers, which is
common for those who are seeking asylum in Britain. So he will make his particular claim when his turn comes.
The order that we received yesterday said that to you know there's a stay illegal stay on his removal, an injunction preventing him from being
removed. And he will now turn to making his claim for asylum here.
ASHER: So Priti Patel has said that, you know, the UK government is going to press on, she vowed that they're going to press on with another sort of
scheduled flight in the future, and that she believes the UK Government has met all of its sort of moral and legal obligations. What's your response to
that?
SWAINE: Well, as far as the legal obligations go, the domestic courts right up to the Supreme Court. So High Court, Court of Appeal and Supreme Court,
they agreed that the government had the right to make its own policy, and they weren't going to stand in the way of what the government was intending
to do as a democratically elected government.
However, at the same time, there is actually a judicial review, challenging the legality itself of the policy. So that is a generic challenge to
whether or not it's lawful to bring in a particular policy which the government is intending to bring in. And that will be heard in July.
We don't have a date yet. But we know there'll be an assessment made in July. From a moral perspective I think I agree with the United Nations High
Commissioner for Refugees in his view that Britain has shamefully abandoned the UK's responsibility under the Refugee Convention, which something we
helped is set up in the first place.
I very much would like our country to be caring and compassionate and to comply with the Refugee Convention as so many other countries.
ASHER: What do you think? I mean, you know, when you think about the government's arguments, from their perspective, and this is just me sort of
playing devil's advocate, from their perspective, not only is housing refugees and asylum seekers in the UK, extremely expensive, but you also
have the issue of human trafficking.
You have the issue of people smuggling, you have the sort of dangerous journeys across the English Channel that a lot of these migrants make many
of whom, of course, lose their lives, on the way from Cali to England. What do you think, as somebody who's obviously incredibly invested in the story,
given that you're representing one of these asylum seekers? What do you think is the solution here?
SWAINE: Well, of course, it's a huge tragedy for the loss of any human life. I think in itself it points more to the fact that the government
should be trying to tackle the human traffickers themselves, rather than pointing a finger at people who are legitimately seeking asylum in the
United Kingdom.
If they were to try to tackle the human traffickers, one of the best ways of doing that would be for them to set up safe routes for travel to the
United Kingdom. There have been safe routes in the past the Syria Scheme has been brought to an end.
The scheme in Afghanistan which was supposed to provide safe applications for asylum is not working as far as the United Kingdom is concerned.
[11:10:00]
SWAINE: And very few of the numbers we said we would take have arrived here, very few indeed. And it would be possible to set up a safe route such
as one that exists for Ukrainian citizens at the moment that is working. And citizens of Ukraine can claim asylum here with relative ease compared
with anyone else.
ASHER: And if you could just clarify something for me, now that these sort of this first flight has been canceled, it was scheduled to take off
yesterday, it's been canceled, obviously, your client is not on this flight. Is your client scheduled to be on the next flight?
I know that he's been housed in a detention center right now. But is he scheduled to be on the next flight out of the UK going through Rwanda?
SWAINE: We haven't seen any lists at all of any of the asylum seekers who are supposedly to go on the next flight. I wouldn't have expected so given
the court order that was made and served upon the home office in respect of my client yesterday.
But it has been very unclear what criteria have been used by the home office in choosing asylum seekers to go on the flight. For instance, there
were quite a number of unaccompanied minors who were on the flight, and they were some of the first people to be told they wouldn't have to go.
ASHER: So what happens after July? I mean, obviously, this ruling by the European Court of Human Rights is sort of an interim ruling after July when
that ruling comes; do we get sort of complete clarity what happens after that?
SWAINE: Well, I think both the applicants who represent some of the asylum seekers, and also the government will have to assess the actual legal
outcome when it gets to the Supreme Court. If, of course, it's found that the policy is in fact illegal.
And the scheme that's been set up cannot function, and then it would be up to the government to decide whether or not it will change the law, which it
would have to do in that case, to make it legal.
If they decided to change the law, then they would be able to go ahead with it. I know there's been discussion in Parliament and elsewhere today about
potentially withdrawing from the ECHR. But that would be a very lengthy process. And personally, I don't think in anyone's best interest.
ASHER: Right, incredibly complicated, so many moving parts. And as we sort of sit here and debate this, your client is in limbo. You know, it doesn't
really know what his future holds at this point in time. Francis, we have to leave it there.
I really appreciate by the way, you coming on the program and sharing your client's perspective. Thank you so much.
SWAINE: Thank you very much.
ASHER: Ahead on connect the world; a top human rights lawyer will join me a little bit later on. We'll look at what the UK has in mind after that
thumping legal loss, its controversial deportation plan.
And Western weapons and ammunition are helping Ukrainian troops in the war with Russia; while the soldiers say what they've got now isn't nearly
enough. And Americans, like many others around the world are feeling the pinch at the checkout line and the U.S. Federal Reserve but potentially
ease the pain. We'll walk through that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:15:00]
ASHER: A pivotal moment has arrived in Russia's war in Ukraine that assessment coming from U.S. and other Western intelligence officials who
note that Ukraine is burning through its Soviet era munitions as it fends off relentless Russian attacks.
NATO defense ministers meeting in Brussels today are set to address President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's repeated pleas for more advanced weaponry.
The NATO Secretary General says that more help is on the way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We are extremely focused on stepping up providing more support more advanced weapons, and also to do
that in the best possible way for Ukrainians because we support them in their just fight against the brutal Russian invasion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Ukrainian forces are struggling to keep partial control of the key city of Sievierodonetsk. Ukraine's Military Chief in the Luhansk region of
the Donbas says that Russia is attacking from three directions and destroying residential buildings.
Ben Wedeman joins us live now from Kramatorsk and the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine. This is really a crucial time, Ben, in this, what are you
seeing on the ground?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, basically what we're seeing is that the Ukrainian forces are barely hanging on in a very
small corner of Sievierodonetsk that absorbs chemical complex.
By and large, the Russians are now essentially in control of about 97 percent of the Luhansk region. And what we're seeing is that the Russians
have been able to take full advantage of their superiority in firepower, particularly artillery.
And we were at a training session for Ukrainian troops who have been given American light arms, small arms, but they told us time and time again what
they need to stop this Russian advance. And they are advancing is heavy weapons and artillery, particularly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice over): American symbol American weapon, Ukrainian troops try out new equipment U.S. supplied M4 rifles fresh out of the box. Away from
the front lines, these soldiers are preparing to join the battle raging in the east.
WEDEMAN (on camera): This exercise is designed to address the Ukrainian forces - Western weapons. This is an American 50 caliber gun fire Italian
bullet. There's a problem though. We're told there's not enough Western ammunition.
WEDEMAN (voice over): And not enough weapons either. Even in this drill, much of the firepower dates back to the Soviet era. Ukrainian forces are
slowly losing ground in the battle for the Eastern Donbas region. Morale here is high. Yet no one believes these rifles will help the Russian
advance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not enough.
WEDEMAN (voice over): Ukrainian officials say Russian artillery outnumbers their artillery at a ratio of perhaps more than 10 to one used to deadly
effect in the city of Sievierodonetsk now almost completely under Russian control.
Big guns not small arms could help Ukraine turn the tide.
VITALI, UKRAINIAN ARMED FORCES: I can protect myself as a soldier with this weapon. I can protect my comrades, but unfortunately, I can't clear my
country from invaders used to know this rifle. So we need more artillery we need heavy rocket system and as a shooter seriously weapon because it's the
modern war.
WEDEMAN (voice over): The U.S. and its allies have delivered advanced weapon systems to Ukraine and more are on the way. But the army here is
losing men at an alarming rate more than 100 killed in action every day according to Ukrainian officials.
[11:20:00]
WEDEMAN (voice over): We need a basic minimum to avoid more casualties, artillery, smart weapons, radar drones and people to train us says the
commander Lieutenant Alexander, a veteran of the French Foreign Legion.
We've shown we will fight, we will learn to use these weapons. And that will take time and time is a luxury this nation at war cannot afford.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: And the irony is that this situation this grave situation in the Donbas region comes as no surprise this offensive by the Russians has been
going on for two months.
I was in Sievierodonetsk in April back then it was being clobbered by Russian artillery and the Ukrainians have been appealing time and time
again, for these high tech weapon systems to be delivered as quickly as possible.
But many Ukrainians feel that the West despite their good words, their words of encouragement. In the end, it's just a lot of talk, Zain?
ASHER: Yes, the Ukrainians need action at this point they need those weapons. The situation in the Donbas region, as you point out, Ben is
desperate. I want to talk about the humanitarian situation, Ben, because there has been some uncertainty over Russia's unilateral humanitarian
corridor in Sievierodonetsk. What more do we know at this point?
WEDEMAN: Well, the Russians have offered a humanitarian corridor for the people who are in the - chemical complex, approximately four to 500,
according to Ukrainian officials.
The problem is it's conditional that these people who are evacuated go to Russian controlled territory, which means many manned up the so called
filtration camps where anyone with affiliation with intelligence with police with local administration could be detained, interrogated.
So the Ukrainians are not at all enthusiastic about that idea. Now, what you have is these people are basically running out of food supplies because
all three bridges over the river into Sievierodonetsk have been destroyed.
So it's very difficult to get anything to them. And it's equally difficult to get the people out to Ukrainian controlled territory, Zain?
ASHER: Yes, as much as we talk about the fighting, we have to remember that the civilians, especially those who are trapped, are in desperate need of
food and help. Ben Wedeman live for us there, thank you so much.
The Ukraine crisis is behind some of the turmoil we've seen in the world economies lately, prices are up all over in some cases, putting fuel and
even food out of reach.
Now some central banks are taking action. Today the European Central Bank held an emergency meeting to try to calm bond markets. And just a few hours
from now, the U.S. Federal Reserve could announce the biggest rate hike in terms of interest rates in nearly 30 years that is of course aimed at
reining in those soaring prices.
You've got this covered across two continents for you; Clare Sebastian is following the ECB meeting for us from London. We've got Business
Correspondent, Rahel Solomon live for us in New York. Clare, let me start with you. What is the ECB going to do? And is it going to be enough to calm
nervous markets?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Zain this was a really quite unusual move from the ECB today. What happened was when they announced
their regularly scheduled meeting last week that they were going to move towards their first rate raise in 11 years at their next meeting in July
and end asset purchases that month as well.
That really sparked a huge sell off, and especially the government bonds, very indebted European countries like Italy. And then the difference
between the Italian bonds and the German bonds that is seen as sort of a fear gauge in the European Union that widened to its widest point, since
2020.
So that was really a sense of sort of stress in the markets to the ECB. Six days after that meeting, he said, to come out and flesh out their previous
statement. And show what they're going to do about these diverging borrowing costs across the Eurozone, what is called fragmentation.
What they're going to do is, you know, one new thing they say they're going to launch a new program aimed at anti fragmentation. We don't know exactly
what that's going to look like yet it will still need the approval of the ECB Governing Council.
And they're also going to deploy the funds that come from maturing bonds from their pandemic era bond purchase program as well. They're going to try
to do that to mitigate the strains in different areas of the Eurozone.
So a couple of things they're doing as well, the markets are appreciating it. I think the jury's out on that the Euro has given up a lot of its gains
against the dollar. But Italian bonds have bond yields have come down a little bit below their highs over the week. So perhaps at this stage the
markets are giving them the benefit of the doubt.
[11:25:00]
ASHER: And just walk us through how we got here, Clare, why is the sort of the process of raising rates even amid record high inflation? Why is it
fraught with so much risk?
SEBASTIAN: Yes, this is a really interesting question because of course, compared to what the Fed is doing with perhaps a three quarter percent rate
rise, the ECN and it won't be its first either in this cycle.
The ECB hasn't raised rates yet it hasn't done in 11 years. Rates are actually negative in the European Union. And Christine Lagarde, the ECB
President has maintained that the European Union, the Eurozone in particular is not on a solid and economic footing as the U.S. that she
wants to wait and gradually that the potential shocks from the Ukraine war are closer to the economy of Europe than they are to the U.S.
And look, that's true that Europe is trying to wean itself off Russian energy. We're seeing even this week that Gazprom is cutting back gas
supplies sort of flowing through the Nord Stream pipeline that serves Germany, of course, which is Europe's biggest economy.
So there are great risks out there, to the Eurozone. But I think the key difference here is that the ECB and Christine Lagarde are trying to set
monetary policy for 19 different countries with very different debt levels and very different inflation rates at the moment, Zain.
ASHER: Right, Clare standby, let me bring in that Rahel Solomon. So Rahel in about, let's see, let me do my math. Two and a half hours from now or so
we are going to hear what the Fed is going to be doing in terms of interest rates, everybody basically seems to think we're going to see 75 basis
points in terms of an interest rate hike.
Just explain to us, what's the risk here just in terms of what ends up happening to the U.S. economy as a result of that rate increase?
RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, when the Fed raises rates, it essentially makes borrowing more expensive for all of us, U.S. consumers,
which is exactly the point they're trying to curb demand; they're trying to get us to spend less.
The challenge for the Fed, however, is that if they do so, too, drastically, it could sort of pump the brakes on the economy, we could
really contract. So right, it's a real sort of brake on the economy in terms of spending.
And so that's a very delicate balance to begin with, from the Fed or for the Fed. That said there is another issue emerging that there is a feeling
in the investment community that there is a reputational crisis, a credibility crisis for the Fed.
So I think, you know, what we're going to hear today is probably some very strong language. The expectation, as you said, is three quarters of a
percent. But also some very strong language, signaling that the Fed plans to stay on top of inflation that they have a handle on it, and that they
plan to rein it in.
But all indications at this point is that they don't have a handle on it yet, because the last reading we got for inflation show that not only was
it not moderating but it was accelerating.
And that proved to be a quite a difficult sticking point for the Federal Reserve, which is probably why, prior to about 48 hours ago, prior to the
last few days, the expectation for today's meeting, Zain was 50 basis points, or about half a percent.
And then all of a sudden, we got that inflation report, which showed U.S. inflation soaring or accelerating, for sure. And then we started to hear
these rumblings that it's probably going to look a lot more like three quarters of a percent.
ASHER: Yes, it's interesting, because as you point out, the Fed needs to prove that they actually know what they're doing here that the economy
isn't set or inflation rather, is in safe hands in terms of how they're going to handle this.
When you think about the U.S. consumer Rahel, they're dealing with right now in the U.S., obviously, much higher gas prices, soaring food prices,
for example, even travel, travel is expensive in this country right now.
And then on top of that, you're now going to be dealing with much higher borrowing costs. So what is next in terms of consumer spending for this
country? SOLOMON: Zain, I think you touched on a really interesting point. I think what we're seeing in terms of U.S. consumers, is the tale of two
consumers is what I hear from economists essentially, that those who are middle and upper class are, you know, still able to afford spending.
And we're still seeing that. But for those who don't really have a ton of wiggle room in their budget to begin with, they're getting burned on both
sides, they're seeing a prices increase because of inflation.
And now if you have to borrow, which of course some folks do, now, you're going to likely see interest rates start to rise. So there is a very real
concern about affordability in terms of rent and shelter and also just cost of living.
Food prices we know are double digit increases in terms of consumer inflation, of course, I mean, gas it's the top story on the American news
every single night. So there is a very real concern about those who are living paycheck to paycheck and about the suffering that we may see in
terms of high inflation and now raising rates.
ASHER: Yes, it's almost like two different countries. I mean, as you point out, this really is highlighting major economic inequality in this country.
Rahel Solomon, Clare Sebastian, thank you ladies both so much, appreciate it.
Right, you are watching "Connect the World". This plane never left the ground but the British government says that won't ground. Its controversial
deportation plan, I'll be speaking live with a top human rights lawyer, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ASHER: Right. I want to return now to our top story The UK government is digging in vowing to move ahead with its very controversial deportation
plan to Rwanda.
This comes after Tuesday's flight for asylum seekers to Kigali was grounded; the plane was on the tarmac when the European Court of Human
Rights intervened. Now the UK says preparations for another flight are actually already underway.
British Home Secretary Priti Patel addressed the UK Parliament earlier today; we need to listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATEL: Well, this decision by the Strasbourg Court to intervene was disappointing and surprising given the repeated and considered judgments to
the contrary in our domestic cause. We remain committed to this policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: My next guest is a leading human rights lawyer who has been an active member of the British Labor Party. And is also part of the legal
team for the charity organization asylum aid which lost its initial bid to have a general injunction to block the Rwanda flights.
Baroness Helena Kennedy joins us live now from London, Baroness Kennedy, thank you so much for being with us. So here's the thing, the asylum system
actually costs the UK roughly around 1.5 billion pounds a year that includes things like hotels and various sort of housing for a lot of these
asylum seekers.
Obviously, the issue of immigration has been front and center in UK politics for many, many years and decades in fact. What is the right
solution here, do you think?
HELENA KENNEDY, HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Well, I think that first of all, the cost of providing for those who are fleeing persecution shouldn't be one of
the considerations. Although I'm quite sure that it is one of those things that people think about.
But really our obligations we have signed treaties to this effect, that we will provide sanctuary for those who are fleeing persecution. And so then,
of course, you have to make a determination as to whether someone is indeed a legitimate refugee.
And that process is one that should be as quick as possible. Now, what we're doing is we're outsourcing this. We're actually I'm going to transfer
those who come across the channel, because we don't like them coming across the channel, at least our Home Secretary doesn't, is that we're going to
actually send them off to Rwanda.
And we've done a deal with Rwanda, paying Rwanda to take our asylum seekers so that they get them instead of the UK. And it's a pretty sorry principle
to be establishing. And happily the European Court of Human Rights has said that this is contrary to human rights.
[11:35:00]
KENNEDY: And that it must be possible for a judicial review to be heard, which is under judicial review is in the offing is due to be hired next
month. And judicial review of the decision to do this and to have this policy as to whether it contravenes the rights of the individuals and so
those cases are due to be heard.
And what the European Court said was the right thing to do is to wait and find out the outcome of those hearings on judicial review, which are very
different from the hearings, which are already taking place inside our country.
That's where the Home Secretary, I'm afraid, has got her law wrong. It's an issue that the European Court was disappointing because it flew in the face
of decisions by British judges.
The British judges were dealing with applications for injunction and an injunction that the threshold to get an injunction say hi, and the judges
was at first instance, and then the Court of Appeal said that threshold had not been met, because you have to be told that there will be irreparable
damage.
And what the government said was we'll have people back, if they win their cases, we'll take them back. And we'll fly them back into the country if
they win their cases.
ASHER: So let me ask - so you disagree with Priti Patel there, but let me ask you this. The government says that their main motivation is really just
sort of to prevent dangerous crossings, from Calais crossing the channel, to England.
They also want to thwart human trafficking, human smuggling. They say that that is their main motivation in conjuring up this scheme. Do you believe
that?
KENNEDY: Well, the problem is that the people who are coming this way, have no other mechanism for getting into United Kingdom because we're an island,
we're off the mainland.
And so unless they are one of three categories, unless they were taking, they're coming in on the new Ukraine offerings. And even that has been very
slow. The offering that we made to people fleeing from Afghanistan, who were people who worked for us, we took in 15,000.
That's the equivalent of basically 3000 families. And, and so we aren't being very generous in our offerings, and very, and we're taking in people
from Hong Kong. But the numbers of people that we're taking in have reduced considerably over the last 10 years and more.
We've seen a significant drop in the number of people come into this country, because it's so hard to get here. And so the people who are taking
these risks are usually coming to join family members who are already here.
It's an instinct for people to want to be with those that they love and those that they care about. And they pay traffickers, because it's the only
way. And of course, what happens is that their whole family pool at all their resources, sell what they own, in order to let one of their family
whose duty likely to be persecuted, and let them flee.
ASHER: And you also until your point, you also have to sort of wonder, what must a person have gone through in their home country? What must they be
fleeing from in order to be willing to take that risk?
I want to ask you, how does the government, you know, to its point, thought, you know, human trafficking, human smuggling, stop these dangerous
crossings, while at the same time complying with international law? What is the right solution?
KENNEDY: Well, one of the things that, that Mrs. Patel has just done is that she said that anybody who comes via trafficking will be criminalized,
because that is not an acceptable way to enter our country, to punish the people who are the victims of traffickers is not the way to go.
And in fact, many of the people who come into our country, we'll be able to give invaluable intelligence about who it was that they ended up paying,
they may have phone numbers of people that they were put in contact with, and good operations, undercover operations could get to the heart of some
of this highly finance business.
So I mean we're not going about this in the right way. You don't punish the people who are drug addicts by you know, you don't get to the people who're
trafficking drugs by punishing people who've got an addiction. So I mean all I would say is that you don't do it this way around, they're going from
the bottom up, and they should use those who are being brought into the country by traffickers.
They should use them as an intelligence resource; you should give them that trust and confidence, and then they will help in the identification of the
processes that are being used, so that these gangs can be broken.
That's the way that you go about and that's where you invest your money, not by giving it to Rwanda, a place that does not have the highest
standards in human rights.
And we've actually part of the deal that is not being advertised to the British public is that in fact, part of the deal is that Rwanda will send
to us that they're asylum seekers who have mental health problems or disabilities.
[11:40:00]
KENNEDY: And why is that because they do not have the level of psychiatric skills within Rwanda that most people who've been persecuted or feared
persecution, suffered from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder suffer from many other problems as a result of what they've been through.
And Rwanda does not have the numbers of people to resource the help that these people need. So they're going to be sending their asylum seekers who
got those kinds of problems to the United Kingdom. That's the small print that is not being taught to the British public.
ASHER: You know, there is a lot to be honest that we don't know about this deal between the UK and Rwanda, we know roughly how much money the UK is
giving Rwanda but we have no idea for example, why Rwanda was chosen or the other terms of the deal.
Baroness, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much. Appreciate you coming on the program. All right, just ahead on "Connect the World" say it
isn't so why fans of the Kpop global phenomenon BTS are in a state of shock. We'll have details after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: You can actually feel the hearts of BTS fans breaking all over the world today. Nope. The boy band is not technically breaking up, but they
might as well be given the way the fans are reacting.
The group says it's time to go on a hiatus and explore what they can do artistically on their own. They made the unexpected announcement at an
anniversary dinner video. Paula Hancocks has more from Seoul.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was just a couple of weeks ago that BTS was at the White House meeting with U.S. President Joe Biden discussing
how to address anti-Asian hate crimes. And now the seven member group has announced that they will be taking a break to pursue solo pursuits and solo
careers.
Now this all came about as they were having an anniversary dinner which was televised, they posted to the official YouTube channel. And the seven of
them were discussing the fact that they needed a rest that they needed to take a break.
One of them saying that the band had gone through a rough patch and that they needed individually to find their identity another also pointing out
that within the Kpop industry it is difficult to try and find time to be able to mature.
So the group says that they want to now step back as a group. They're not saying that they are splitting up; they said that they will come back at
some point in the future but for now they want to have their solo careers. Now it will be a big blow as we've seen by many comments online to their
very loyal fans known as the army.
[11:45:00]
HANCOCKS: Some expressing devastation disappointment, but many also saying they understand the band does need to rest and one of the band members did
address that within that dinner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now we've lost our direction, and I just want to take some time to think and then return but that just feels rude to our
fans, and like I'm letting down their expectations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: Not to say BTS is successful would be a massive understatement. They are the first group since the Beatles they have had three number one
albums on the billboard 200 chart.
Twice they've been nominated for Grammy Awards, and they have fans around the world. Now one thing that has been speculated on a great deal over the
past year or so is the fact that many of them are close to needing to do the compulsory military service that you have here in South Korea.
As soon as you hit 30 then you if you are an able bodied man, you have to serve at least 18 months in the military and the group at this point is
between the ages of 24 and 29. So that was also something that was hanging over BTS. Paula Hancocks, CNN Seoul.
ASHER: Alright, let's get you up to speed on some other stories that are on our radar right now. Iran has confirmed it's preparing to test launch two
satellite carrying rockets with tensions high over Tehran's nuclear program.
Some experts see the test launches as provocative since the technology is similar to what is needed for intercontinental ballistic missiles. And
Israel is hopeful about relations with Saudi Arabia with Joe Biden's trip to the region next month.
Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid said he expected improvements in ties with the kingdom.
He pointed out they have a mutual interest with regards to Iran. And French led forces in West Africa have captured a senior leader of an ISIS
affiliate, it happened several days ago, near the Mali Nigeria border.
He's expected of organizing several attacks against military bases in Mali. The French Armed Forces ministry says that he was targeting French forces
moving out of Mali after a military coup there.
And the Ethiopian government announced it has formed a committee to negotiate with forces from the Tigray region and an open letter posted on
Twitter. The president of the Tigrayan People's Liberation Front said he is prepared to participate in the peace process but that it must be held in
Nairobi, Kenya and mediated by its president.
Right, still to come here on "Connect the World", I'll be speaking to the British lawmaker whose constituent is one of the fighters sentenced to
death by a pro-Russian court in eastern Ukraine, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: A violation of international law that's what British officials are saying after a pro-Russian proxy court in eastern Ukraine sentenced to
Britons and a Moroccan national to death last week.
The three men were fighting for Ukraine when Russian forces captured them in Mariupol in April. Russian state media say the men are being accused of
being mercenaries for Ukraine. My next guest is British Conservative Member of Parliament Robert Jenrick.
[11:50:00]
ASHER: He called the court proceedings, a fraudulent show, and he represents the district of where one of the captured men, Aiden Aislin, is
from. First and foremost, your reaction to what's happening to these two British nationals in eastern Ukraine.
ROBERT JENRICK, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: Well, thank you for having me on the show. These two British citizens who have served with the Ukrainian
Armed Forces should be being treated as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention.
Instead, they've been subjected to this extraordinary and disgusting show trial, like something out of the Soviet era, and now are sentenced to
death. We're working closely with the Ukrainian government to see if we can have them released as part of a prisoner exchange.
But I think it shows once again, the depths to which Putin's Russia is willing to sink. And this is just one of a whole pattern of war crimes
being conducted left, right and center across Ukraine at the moment.
ASHER: I mean, obviously, you point out that you're working with the Ukrainians to secure their release. But what does that mean, specifically;
just give us some insight into the negotiations that are taking place right now?
JENRICK: Well, there have been prisoner exchanges between the Ukrainian and the Russian Armed Forces. At the moment, thousands of Ukrainian personnel
are held by the Russians, including a large contingent to capture around Mariupol.
And it likewise, there are a good number of Russians who are held by the Ukrainians as well. And so prisoner exchanges are happening and are a
natural thing to occur now.
I'm hopeful that Aiden Aislin and Shaun Pinner are the two British nationals who are in this situation can be included in one of those
prisoner swaps. But of course, we have to be concerned that that won't happen, because they'd been put on the show trials or kangaroo court, and
given the suppose a death sentences, which is a deeply concerning situation.
And we have to take that seriously. And be mistrustful of what Russia and its proxies are saying, because their other behavior suggests that they're
capable of conducting really despicable war crimes.
ASHER: So if the worst mean, God forbid, but if the worst were to happen here, what would the British response be?
JENRICK: Well, I've been speaking to the British Foreign Secretary, Liz Truss, and asking her to issue a very robust statement to Russia, which she
has now done, making clear that we hold them responsible for the safe treatment of these British passport holders.
This is primarily a negotiation to be conducted between the Ukrainian government and the Russians, because these are individuals who may be
British citizens, but are serving members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
They're not mercenaries, they are Ukrainian soldiers, and so should be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, the rules of war as
prisoners of war. However, we mustn't escape the fact that these are pretty citizens.
And so we're, as you say, God forbid something to happen to them. We, the British would hold Russia directly accountable for that, because their
proxies in Ukraine ultimately are servants of the Russian regime.
And if there was a direction to carry out this sentence, it would be a direction that's come from on high in Russia. I'm hopeful that that doesn't
happen. That would be a serious, serious miscalculation by the Russian government. But of course, one can never rule it out. That's why we're
taking this very seriously.
ASHER: Right and you point out that you've spoken to Liz Truss, you're trying to get her to sort of, oh, you tried to get her rather to issue a
strongly worded statement, which I believe she's done. I know that she also spoke to Dmytro Kuleba, but what can he actually do about this? This is
really about the Russians holding all the cards here.
JENRICK: Well, yes and no, both sides have conducted prisoner exchanges in the past, and would like to do so in the future. And the Ukrainian
government have kindly responded to our entreaties to support these two British citizens and have said that they will give them a degree of
priority.
Of course, they have thousands of other families who are asking them to organize prisoner exchanges and we understand the immense pressure that
they're under. The Russian government may not care about their service personnel.
But Ukraine as a democracy cares a great deal about the safe return of their own. But kindly the Ukrainian government have said that they will
give these foreign nationals British citizen's priority.
[11:55:00]
JENRICK: And so we hope that they will be able to negotiate their safe relief as released as part of a prisoner exchange soon.
ASHER: And we have, we have to leave it there, unfortunately. And of course, our thoughts go out with go out to Aiden's family. God knows what
they're going through right now. Thank you so much for being with us.
JENRICK: Thank you.
ASHER: Well, tonight's parting shots it's graduation season in many parts of the world. But as you might imagine, this year is not the same for high
school students in Ukraine, a photographer captured these graduation portraits, and that's the Chernihiv ruins.
Instead of Caps and Gowns, bullets and holes and destruction, the images are striking and paint a picture of what life is now like for the students.
One graduate actually told Reuters that we didn't rejoice in the ruin, but we wanted to show that we live in such realities.
That photographer wanted to give students a way to remember the occasion after the war took away their graduation from prom rather and everything
they knew. Thank you so much for being with us. I'll be back at the top of the hour with "One World".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:00]
END
