Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

G7 is Trying to Cap Price of Russian Oil; Russian Missiles Hit Kyiv as G7 Summit Begins in Europe; Israel Relaxes Regulations on Abortion Planning; Somalia Faces Worst Drought in 40 Years; Economist Argues Potential Cap of Russian Oil will not Work; UK Parliament Debates bill to Change part of EU-Brexit Deal. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 27, 2022 - 11:00   ET




BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: I am Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome back to the show. Leaders from the world's seventh wealthiest

democracies are meeting right now as we speak in the Bavarian Alps.

And strategizing on best how best to help Ukraine as Russia's invasion grinds on.

G7 leaders pledging to support Ukraine for as long as it takes President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, for his part hopes the war will be over by the end of

the year.

He spoke to the group via video and urged them to keep up the support for his country and the pressure on Russia. Now this comes as Vladimir Putin's

forces seem to be turning the tide in eastern Ukraine. Well, the U.S. President Joe Biden says Putin is counting on the G7 and NATO to be

divided. But Mr. Biden vows that isn't going to happen.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have to stay together. Is Putin is counting out from the beginning that somehow NATO

would G7 would splinter. But we haven't, and we're not going to, so can this aggression take former --and get away.


ANDERSON: That's Joe Biden speaking to the German Chancellor. CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Frederik Pleitgen following the latest developments from

outside the Summit site

Kaitlan let me begin with you. If I can, in a joint statement, the United States and the G7 set off on measures will continue to SAP Putin's military

industrial complex of critical components prevent the central bank's foreign reserves from propping up an ailing economy.

And deprive Putin of the resources he needs to wage his war and hold the Kleptocracy to account for its ill-gotten gains. We have heard this

rhetoric before it needs to be said. So what is G7, the U.S. president proposing to do at this point?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the White House says the conversation behind the scenes today where President Zelenskyy was

speaking to these leaders virtually behind closed doors was actually very strategic.

And it was very sensitive. They focused really on what they believe Ukraine is going to do next, what needs to happen next and hearing from President

Zelenskyy about what he needs from these G7 leaders.

And that is, of course, really often along the lines of the military weapons that these allies are sending into Ukraine that they've been

sending ever since this invasion first got underway.

And we've really seen that ramp up whether its steps that Germany is taking or even the United States, which now says it, has purchased this air

defense system that they can use for Ukraine, something Ukrainian officials had been asking for, for weeks.

And a lot of the conversation today really Becky seemed centered around the timing of how long this could potentially go on because obviously it's now

entered this phase of this grinding conflict.

There's no really end in sight. But President Zelenskyy had a pretty urgent message for these leaders today, which is one he wants this war to end by

the end of 2022. And he's calling on these G7 leaders to basically over the next few months have a maximum use kind of mentality here doing everything

they can to really help Ukraine.

So there is not what you've seen happening lately, which is this concern that the war is tipping in Russia's favor, as they are making these small,

but still very significant gains.

And so that really was a lot of the conversation that Jake Sullivan, who is President Biden's national security adviser said the conversation was about

what's happening in the next few months, not happening in the next few years.

And so they are having these conversations behind the scenes about what does Ukraine need and what do they need right now.

ANDERSON: Meantime, the West faces an energy crisis and Joe Biden has doubled down on his pledges to increase LNG exports to Europe now. While

often seen as a bridge fuel, this is not a clean green energy and is another example of how the war is shaping future energy policy.

What happened to the climate changes promises during Joe Biden's election campaign, Kaitlan?

COLLINS: I think the invasion of Ukraine has totally disrupted them, because before you would have seen a G7 summit focused on emissions. And

now they're focused on how to make sure that European countries aren't too dependent on Russian oil, how to change that.

And also having conversations about putting a price cap on the cost of Russian oil so they can try to deny Putin the revenue these getting that

they say is financing this war.

It is a fascinating development, because you are seeing it completely flipped around and the way that President Biden and his top officials are

talking about energy and talking about what they want to happen in the next few months.

And you see President Biden calling on refineries to up their production. He said that he doesn't believe that they are doing enough or that they are

at capacity like they say they are.


COLLINS: And it is just a completely different focus than the G7 summit would have been six months ago would have been a year ago, because now it

is basically first and foremost, focused on what's happening in Ukraine.

ANDERSON: Indeed, was back in June, in the UK. Kaitlan, thank you. Fred, Zelenskyy said earlier that he wants the war to be finished by the end of

this year. Is there a realistic willingness on the part of the G7 members outside of the U.S. to ensure that that goal, and it's a goal and we can

interrogate what that goal really will mean, but is there an intention here to ensure that that goal is met?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that certainly the G7 nations outside the U.S. would like that goal to be

met. But it certainly is very difficult to actually see that happening, especially in terms of the support that so far some of the other G7 nations

have been giving to Ukraine, and the possibility of that, really turning the tide on the battlefield.

And then of course, one of the things that needs to be acknowledged is that the Russians obviously have a big vote in that as well, especially with a

lot of the military equipment, that they have been moving into Ukraine, and especially towards that front there in the Donbas.

If you look at however, the other sort of G7 nations, you can certainly see that they are somewhat stepping up. Kaitlan talked about it a little bit,

just a second ago about the Germans, for instance, putting in some of those heavy howitzer systems that they have some say, some of the most up to date

howitzers in the entire world.

And the French, obviously also they have some pretty heavy howitzers that they've also put in. And those are the weapons that the Ukrainians are

asking for.

The weapons that Ukraine wants artillery, and especially multiple Artillery Rocket Launch System, the Germans giving, for instance, three launchers,

that's something that's pretty big for a country, like Germany to do.

And I know, from speaking with German officials, that that's actually something that happened after talks between German and U.S. officials to

try and get that done to make sure that the Germans can actually send those rocket launch systems which are set to have training begin for the

Ukrainians, very, very quickly. Nevertheless, the Russians, of course, have a huge force in Ukraine.

And the other thing and this is where we get back to the G7, the Russians are still making a lot of money off of oil and gas, especially with the oil

price is extremely high.

And I was able to speak to the spokesman for Vladimir Putin just about a week and a half ago. And he said the Russians understand that their economy

is hurting. But they also say Russia is simply too big to isolate. And that's why they think they can go on for a very long time, Becky.

ANDERSON: This is a pivotal week, with the NATO summits forthcoming as well. This is a diplomatic battle; of course, a goal that President Putin

seems to have had throughout this is to sow discord among his western counterparts.

Is there evidence at this point that we are seeing the fracturing of what is otherwise being a very united front on the part of the West?

PLEITGEN: You know, it's a very, it's a very important question. I think if you look at what's been going on so far, in the G7, probably not. But if

you look at for instance, what's been going on in the European Union, and possibly also to a certain extent, and the g20 as well, maybe there is some

fracturing that is going on like, right now you're hearing the G7 talk about a possible cap on oil prices for Russian oil.

Well, the European Union not too long ago had a big discussion about possibly banning Russian oil. And we saw how that went; we saw it was very

difficult to get any sort of consensus.

There had to be loopholes in the end, for countries like for instance, Hungary that really weren't willing to go along with that at all.

And if you look at some of the G7 countries, even within their societies, you do see that there is a little bit of fatigue. And you also see that

there is a lot of fear about economic fallout look at Germany, for instance, just over the past couple of days, the Germany's the Germans put

in place, another energy emergency where they said, look, if Russia cuts off its gas to Germany, and some of the factories could stop working in a

country like Germany with a huge industrial complex.

So there is a certain fear there is a certain fatigue in some of these European societies. And therefore, obviously, this G7 summit was extremely

important, especially with the U.S. really trying to strengthen the allies.

I think one of the things that were a key moment was that bilateral meeting between President Biden and German Chancellor Olaf Schultz, where President

Biden told him that he believed that Schultz was doing a great job.

Because right now Olaf Schultz also is facing some backlash in Germany as no doubt a lot of other European leaders are facing as well with remaining

steadfast on that course of supporting Ukraine, Becky.

ANDERSON: Fred, thank you. Well as we consider what's going on at G7 we are following breaking news out of central Ukraine where President Zelenskyy

says over 1000 people were inside a shopping mall in the City of Kremenchuk when a Russian missile hit the building.


ANDERSON: Officials now saying at least two people were killed and 20 were injured. Mr. Zelenskyy says the site has "no danger to the Russian army in

no strategic value".

The mall is still on fire and emergency services are on the scene. These pictures, of course are from the scene. Well to the east, civilians in the

city of Lysychansk are urged to evacuate immediately as Russian forces close in.

Ukrainian officials say the attacks are focused on the south and west as Russians tried to cut off the main highway. The area has reportedly already

suffered catastrophic damage. And the capital of Kyiv hit by a barrage of Russian missiles on Sunday.

And apartment building there struck leaving one dead and six others injured. Well, Salma Abdelaziz following all of these developments on the

ground in Ukraine's capital.

And Salma, just get us up to speed on what we understand to be happening around the country at this point. Where do you want to start?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, let's just start with the broader picture here, Becky, because one could argue that Russia is having its most

successful run on the battlefield since the start of this conflict using its superior military might to essentially bomb places into submission to

force surrenders, again, through that sheer artillery force that might have its army that is, again, much greater than that of Ukraine's.

They have more men; they have more weapons they have, if you could argue more willingness to use brutal tactics to get their way on the

battleground. And we see that nowhere more than in the Donbas, we know, one of President Putin's major goals here is to take full control of that area

to try to form this land bridge that would connect Russian territory down to those newly gained newly occupied territories in Mariupol and Kherson

all the way down to of course, Crimea, which was annexed in 2014.

You look at the battleground, and Ukrainian forces are pulling back in many of these places. One of the key cities, Sievierodonetsk there, Ukrainian

officials just a few days ago, saying we're going to have to pull out we can't sustain the fight any longer.

And that's true in a lot of places along that frontline the inability to sustain the fight in the face of President Putin's aggression. And then

there's that reminder, Becky, at all times across this country, you just talked about that mall strike, that Russia can reach any part of Ukraine.

And yesterday morning, that was Kyiv, the capital place that had felt relatively safe for some time until a barrage of missiles struck an

apartment block, take a look at the scene.


ABDELAZIZ (voice over): An attack that rattled Ukraine's capital. In the early hours of Sunday morning, multiple Russian missiles hit a residential

area. A nine storey apartment block was struck, leaving families trapped under the rubble.

Dozens of rescue workers scrambled to pull survivors out of the ruins using cranes to reach the still smoldering top floor. Natalia Nikita now watched

in horror as first responders tried to rescue her daughter in law.

Losing loved ones it's the worst fate she said, we do not deserve this. This video from emergency services shows the harrowing rescue. After a

nearly five hour ordeal, Katarina was pulled out injured but alive.

ABDELAZIZ (on camera): This horrific attack is going to save up to. For weeks now the capital has been relatively secure, relatively quiet, which

is absolutely going to shatter that semblance of safety.

ABDELAZIZ (voice over): Several other residents were wounded, including Katarina's seven year old daughter who was caught by fragments as she

slept. At least one person was killed, police said.

The backyard of a nearby kindergarten was also struck, leaving shrapnel where children play. On the scene, the mayor of Kyiv expressed outrage.

VITALI KLITSCHKO, KYIV, UKRAINE MAYOR: This senseless war. And we have to do everything to stop this war because thousands and thousands of guilty

people civilians died.

ABDELAZIZ (voice over): There are a number of military facilities in the area officials say but the victims here clearly innocence. The airstrikes

happening as G7 leaders gathered for a major summit in Germany, a possible message from President Putin.


ABDELAZIZ: Now I know the G7 leaders there Becky saying they will support Ukraine for as long as it takes but this is a war of attrition, with

neither side gaining that much territory but Russia having those resources to continue to pound Ukrainian defensive positions.

That means this could drag out for years, Becky. And already we're seeing Ukrainian troops buckling under the pressure of Russia's military might.

And you might ask, well, what about all that Western aid? What all about what about all those Western weapons? Hope their precious few and they're

simply not turning the tide on the battlefields yet, Becky.


ANDERSON: Yes. Salma Abdelaziz on the ground in Kyiv in Ukraine, appreciate it Salma, thank you. What is the West looks to starve Russia of its energy

revenues. Some experts argue a cap on Russian oil prices being discussed at G7 as we speak would not work. We'll speak with an economist from energy

intelligence about why. And as the United States overturns decades is reproductive freedoms and pro-choice activists are turning to Mexico for



ANDERSON: Was the United States rolls back the federal right to an abortion. Some of the rest of the Americans some not all but some have been

liberalizing recently Colombia, Argentina, and Mexico have all moved to decriminalize abortion to varying degrees over the last two years.

These gains have not come easily. Protesters across the continent and flooded the streets and seas of green to demand more reproductive freedom.

Activists have been working around the system for years to circumvent restrictive laws.

And in Mexico, pro-choice organizations are offering resources know how to women across the border in the United States who are facing a new reality

since the Supreme Court there overturned 50 years of legal precedent granting abortion rights.

So my next guest is Rebecca Ramos, the Executive Director for the Information Group on Reproductive Choice in Mexico and she joins us now

from Mexico City. Thank you. We'll get the ruling in the United States in just a moment.

But at first, Mexico Supreme Court voting in 2021 to decriminalize abortion, this hasn't been though felt equally across the country. What is

the reality? Where you are?

REBECCA RAMOS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INFORMATION GROUP ON REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE: Hello, Becky, thanks for having me. Yes, this has been a many years

fight. And in just last year, the Supreme Court the Mexican Supreme Court decided that they the absolute criminal criminalization of abortion is


So the States at least should allow abortion the termination of pregnancy in the first weeks of pregnancy. And right now, just after this decision,

four states in Mexico have decriminalized abortion in the first trimester.

So we are advancing and right now we are astonished. And I'm very sad because what is happening right now in the states and this terrible

decision of the Supreme Court in the case of--


ANDERSON: Have you been in touch with pro-choice organizations in the United States? And what lessons can you offer them from working in an

environment with what was such restricted abortion access?

RAMOS: Yes, we have been in touch before the decision thinking together in terms of reproductive justice. And how can we be access available for every

woman for every person in the capacity of pregnancy to get the services of, of reproductive health.

And right now, we were offering our experience in these restrictive situations in legal representation of women that are seeking abortion. And

they don't, don't get it and also a technical assistance for a progressive congress people to go for a better legislation.

And also what we have done in the last four years in terms of the green tide with other colleagues in Latin America and in Colombia and in

Argentina, and the demonstrations in the industry, so we are here for you for the women in the states and the organizations.

And we can share our experiences, the things that don't really result so well. And then the thing that has been successful, and right now, also

there are many organizations and many collectives in the border, giving information in terms of medical abortion, in terms of having the pills to

get a safe abortion, for instance, in Coahuila, that is one of the northern states that has a border with Texas and the possibility to give them

information but also - and our experience.

ANDERSON: Let's just consider briefly and finally for a moment, this ruling that was delivered by the supreme court on Friday, it was signposted, but

still a shock to so many.

What do you believe this ruling will mean for reproductive legislation not just in North America and indeed across the America but across the globe?

RAMOS: Well, it's, it's a terrible message for the world. You know, thinking in the States as one of the most important countries in the world

that have been defined and recognized liberties.

And right now, they submit they resolve in those terms. I think in for instance, in cases of Central America, El Salvador, Honduras in terms of

Brazil, that they have right now very restrictive situations.

And this resolution - it would be an example for this ultra conservative movements. And people in those countries to follow this horrible lead and

it makes things more complex, that the things are already currently.

But it's important also to say that that we are here in Latin America, are very vibrant and very young movement. And we are fighting for our rights.

That is for sure. And we are supporting the women in the state.

ANDERSON: And your success is admirable. Keep fighting. Thank you so much for joining us. Well, there are as we've been reporting examples of

countries in the Americas liberalizing access to abortion.

As Israel women there will no longer have to go through some of the decades old red tape including physically facing a review committee that approves

abortions. The application form will also be revised to remove "degrading questions".

Hadas Gold is following the story from Jerusalem for us.

This is Israel taking a step forward in the right to choose. Just explain the detail of this new law, if you will.

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky. For decades, women have been able in Israel to seek abortions for almost any reason. But to do so, they

had to fill out an application answer some questions and then physically go before what are essentially abortion committees at various hospitals around

the country that would be comprised of two doctors and a social worker.

And all abortions no matter at what stage had to be performed at a hospital or equivalent facility.


GOLD: Now under these new reforms, women will be able to apply online as you noted the co- invasive questioning will be removed, and they also won't

have to physically appear before the committee.

It will all just be done online through the application. And also women who are seeking pharmacological abortions will be able to do so will be able to

get the medicine to do so at their doctor's clinic; they won't have to go to a hospital or equivalent facility.

Now while these reforms have been in the works for some time, the Health Minister when he announced them today made a direct connection to the

Supreme Court ruling. Take a listen.


NITZAN HOROWITZ, ISRAELI HEALTH MINISTER: The U.S. Supreme Court's move to deny a woman the right to her body is a dark mode, oppressing women and

returning the leader of the free and liberal world hundred years backwards. Even here the situation is not ideal.

But we are in different places. And today, we are taking big steps in the right direction.


GOLD: Now these reforms, like I said have been in the works for some time because activist said these regulations have not been updated in decades.

But you've been we've been hearing all day from the Health Minister from other members of the Israeli parliament, specifically pointing to the U.S.

Supreme Court ruling and saying that they cannot let Israel go back in time like the United States has done, Becky.

ANDERSON: Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem. Hadas, thank you. Let's get you up to speed folks and some of the other stories that are radar right now. And

indirect talks between Iran and the U.S. could resume soon in Qatar.

A diplomatic source says the U.S. Special Envoy for Iran was planning to attend meetings there today. The talks to be mediated by the EU are aimed

at resolving issues related to the Iran nuclear deal and reviving negotiations that have been stalled since March.

Well, a bullfight in Colombia quickly turned into a disaster seen on Sunday. At least four people were killed and the hundreds injured after

part of a three story stadium holding fans collapsed.

An investigation is underway but so far no official cause has been given. South African investigators are trying to figure out what happened at a bar

Saturday night when 22 people were killed.

The victims reportedly young people some as young as 13 at last check for people remained in critical condition. Police say one person remains

unidentified no arrests have been made. Well, ahead on the show.

The leaders of some of the world's wealthiest nations consider new ways to starve Russia of its revenues. We'll speak to an economist about which G7

efforts may work and which may not.

And soaring energy and food prices being felt all over the world but in one African country people are one step away from famine. That story is just




ANDERSON: Well, much of the world's attention and resources are focused on Ukraine, East Africa is grappling with an extreme drought that is causing

catastrophic hunger, disease, and displacement. The World Food Program warns that up to 20 million people in the region could go hungry this year

and a fourth failed rainy season means Somalia is experiencing its worst drought in more than 40 years.

The numbers are frankly, heart wrenching. More than 800,000 people have been forced to flee their homes due to the drought since the start of last

year; around 7 million people are expected to experience acute food insecurity.

And compounding all of this is a fact that around 90 percent of Somalia's wheat imports had been coming from Russia and Ukraine. So while climate

change is largely to blame, sadly, it isn't the only concern, CNN's Michael Holmes, with this report.


MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In southern Somalia two mounds of earth heaped over the tiny graves of twin girls. They live for

only one day after their mother severely weakened by hunger gave birth a month early in a camp for displaced families.

Sadly, their tragic story is now part of a grim reality facing millions across the region.

HALIMA HASSAN ABDULLAHI, GRANDMOTHER OF DEAD TWINS: This is the worst drought that I have seen in many years. After years of drought, we lost all

of our livestock. We tried to survive on our goats. But one after the other, they all finally died. We fled our home and look for water nearby.

HOLMES (voice over): Somalia is among countries in the Horn of Africa facing the driest conditions in four decades. And it's leading to what one

United Nations official describes as an explosion of child deaths.

The ongoing drought is causing hunger mortality rates to rapidly rise across the region. The UN says in Somalia as many as 29 percent of children

younger than five are experiencing acute malnutrition.

It comes after four consecutive rainy seasons have come and gone with little rain. According to the World Food Program that is killing crops and

livestock and making food and clean water scarce.

CLAIRE NEVILL, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: The humanitarian --for Somalia is only 15 percent funded. So what we need now is right now is money. We need the

cash to avert the risk of famine. In 2011 famine, about a quarter of a million people died.

So if we don't act now, with the money that we need, I think we might head into that kind of direction.

HOLMES (voice over): Making matters worse, the World Bank warns that the war in Ukraine is contributing to an historic rise in global prices of

energy and food. That's hitting communities in countries like Somalia that rely on staples like grain, particularly hard relief groups say.

RUKIA YACOUB, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME, EAST AFRICA: The fundamental issue in Somalia and in the horn at the moment is a climate induced crisis. Right?

It's drought. But where the effects of the Ukraine crisis come in is that the food prices and fuel prices and others are hiked up to a point where we

need more resources to secure what we would have secured before we need a lot more.

HOLMES (voice over): As G7 leaders meet this week to discuss a series of global emergencies, a convergence of crises in Somalia and the Horn of

Africa is proving ever direr as climate change and war in Europe drive desperate need in one of the most vulnerable areas of the world. Michael

Holmes, CNN.


ANDERSON: Well the Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council Yan Egeland recently visited Somalia to assess the scale of the crisis. Some of

the images that you saw in Michael's report they were filmed by the NRC.

He said the country is facing a climate emergency that will be and I quote Yan Egeland here a hammer blow to millions. I caught up with him just after

he returned from his trip. Here's what he told me.

JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGE COUNCIL: Well, I was shocked to my core really to see how many people is now one step away from

famine in Somalia. It's actually all of the Horn of Africa and this is a drought catastrophe which is leading to famine in the shadow of the Ukraine



EGELAND: Nobody seems to care. We have little funding, we have little international interests. But children have already started to die. I saw

mothers and fathers who had been walking for 200 kilometers or more to save one child in the few centers that can do intensive feeding.

ANDERSON: How concerned are you about the country's ability to cope with this?

EGELAND: Well, the country is not able to cope with this at all on its own. It's still a country struggling of two generations of civil war, there is a

new government, it is promising that will be less infighting.

But it's one of the poorest places on the planet. And this is climate change hitting them first and hardest. We who caused climate change are

last and least hit. So it's also a question of international solidarity they have now four failed rainy seasons. So the livestock has died, the

farming is destroyed.

Remember that 90 percent of the grain to Somalia came from two countries, Ukraine and Russia. And that's all gone because of that senseless war. So

the Ukraine war is now killing as many children outside of Ukraine as insight.

ANDERSON: You've suggested this is, you know, so far below the radar at this point as to be a real concern. But why is it that the funding that

does exist isn't getting to the people who are hardest hit?

EGELAND: The humanitarian appeal that we all have the UN and nongovernmental organizations asked for $1.4 billion only. And we're

talking about talking about helping more than 7 million people now in a hunger situation, that funding is 25 percent of what is needing a quarter

and - midyear.

So no, the international mechanisms to come to the relief of the hardest hit for climate change do not work at all for the frontlines.

ANDERSON: You've witnessed what sounds like an epic scale of devastation. What does this say about the larger picture of drought across the region in

East Africa? What are we facing here?

EGELAND: We're facing 10s of millions of people cost into a kind of a free fall situation. They are farmers, they have some livestock. It's really

gone because of all of these fake rainy seasons.

So it's beyond Somalia. It's an Ethiopian, it is in Sudan and it stretches in to the Sahel.

ANDERSON: And how concerned are you that this drought and the consequences of this drought will further exacerbate the potential for instability and

conflict going forward?

EGELAND: There will be more instability there is always more instability when there is an uncontrollable salmon. These people came from many of them

from Al-Shabaab controlled territory, where we have very limited if any access so somehow we have to be able to give, give relief to everybody

where they live.

All cannot assemble in cities and wait for eight we need to build resilient communities, villages, farming, even in the age of climate change.

ANDERSON: Well, Yan Egeland speaking to me just after he returned from a recent trip to Somalia, I'm going to take a very short break at this point,

back after this.



ANDERSON: Our top story this hour, a momentous week of diplomatic negotiations kicking off. The G7 started Sunday is looking for new ways to

deprive the Kremlin of its cash as its worn Ukraine is now in its fifth month.

Some of the world's wealthiest democracies have now banned new gold imports from Russia. And they say that move is largely symbolic as sanctions are

already in place.

And as the G7 leaders huddle in the Bavarian Alps, Moscow denying allegations that it's defaulted on its debt after missing a critical

deadline on Sunday. With G7 also taking aim at Russia's energy revenues talking about capping the price of Russian oil but the how, when and by how

much still being worked out in Bavaria. Well, the U.S. National Security Adviser says the discussions are "headed in the right direction". Well,

joining me now is Julian Mathonniere who is an oil markets economist for energy information company energy intelligence, where he covers Europe and

the Atlantic basin.

I weighed you are a busy, a busy man of late. Russia making just as much from energy exports as it was before the war. Is this energy cap that is

being discussed at G7 a solution? Or will market demand make the potential move meaningless?

JULIAN MATHONNIERE, SENIOR OIL MARKETS CORRESPONDENT, ENERGY INTELLIGENCE: Hi, Becky, I think the purpose of the price gap is to reduce the amount of

money going to Russia because indeed, if you look at the country's current accounts, well, it's much higher this year than it was last year.

I think the first five months of 2022 show a surplus of more than $100 billion versus 32 last year. So you can clearly see that higher prices,

higher hold prices. I've helped Russia to sort of maintain a steady stream of revenue.

And you have to consider the fact that they're also importing less because they are getting increasingly isolated from the rest of the world. So

that's one purpose of this price cap.

The second goal to achieve is to get rid of one of the main causes of inflation, which are IRNA energy prices also, said Mario Draghi. So -

effect of the sanctions that Russian crude is no longer pegged to international prices, because it cannot come back freely on the market.

And there is good reason to think but you know, yes, yes, go on.

ANDERSON: No, I just wonder, and I'm sorry, I had thought that you'd finish. I wonder if this is a tacit acknowledgement, is it not that the

efforts to starve Russia of energy funds to date have failed. How certain are you those big buyers of Russia or China and India would adhere to these


MATHONNIERE: Well, that's I think it's a big deal. Because, you know, a price cap requires everybody to play along, including crucially, you know,

India and China, which have been, you know, more than happy to picked up both heavily discounted distress covers of oppression and so far.

So, you know, I think this cap by this token is at least, you are best optimistic. And even, you know, maybe a little bit naive to think that

China and India will join in. And on top of that, if you take a heavy toll on the - of a seller will use other channels to get it sold to the market.

So to China, for example, is likely to trade more with Russia and the appeal of the let's say - transport this is shipping might be greater like

fast building new pipelines will you know to increase both the security of energy of a country and to avoid detection.


MATHONNIERE: So, you know, it's the cap keeps sort of pulling out its big clouds, but the big Russian mouse is, you know, keeps hiding in every

possible loophole.

ANDERSON: The U.S. wants more oil from OPEC plus, I mean, clearly doesn't want more oil from Russia at this point, which is a member of OPEC plus,

but is led very heavily on this on Saudi Arabia.

The EU wants more the G7 as a grouping clearly wants more. OPEC plus, so must be running on low, running low on spare capacity. How will these price

caps if indeed, they're affected affect the power balance in the region that I am in here, that of the Gulf and the Middle East?

MATHONNIERE: Well, if this price cap, you know, pending its practical implementation, which again, looks very difficult from now, the way it

would affect the market is by essentially making oil a bit cheaper for refiners.

The danger of this price gap is I think it's not going in the right direction. Right now, we need to fix the demand side of the equation.

Remember what Elon Musk said when he was asked whether is to - or Twitter will affect Tesla - says, now, demand is exceeding production to a

ridiculous degree.

We have exactly the same problem with this market. Now, you know, the demand for refined product, gasoline in the U.S., diesel in Europe is

exceeding demand by far. So you know it's not a question. You know, we're not short of oil. It's not a question or not enough supply coming from

OPEC. It's a question of capacity.

This market is short refining capacity; we don't have the capacity to deal with a Russian refined product shortfall. So you know a price cap will only

make all cheaper, it will stimulate demand. And we are not going the right way.

ANDERSON: Inside analysis from our guest today. Your thoughts are important as we weave through what we understand to be the narrative at G7 and how

these G7 nations are, as they have suggested tried to starve Russia of its funds for this war.

Questions about clearly at this point about just how successful efforts are or will be Thank you. Well, a lot more news coming on all much of the world

holding its breath to see if OPEC will agree to ramp up production and its meeting this week.

Meanwhile, in the Middle East newsletter looks at what increased output could mean for soaring prices. You can sign up to have that story delivered

to your and a jolly good read that is still coming up.

There the Republic of Ireland has a message for the UK's Boris Johnson over the Northern Ireland protocol. The Irish Taoiseach will tell us about that

in itself, after this.



ANDERSON: Well throughout this hour, we have been speaking about the diplomatic moves around the war in Ukraine and this week is critical in

that regard.

And Tuesday, NATO leaders will kick off the Alliance's annual summit in Madrid ahead of that its Secretary General highlighting the group

solidarity in the face of Russian aggression.

He says at the summit, they will strengthen their four defenses and enhance battle groups in the eastern part of the NATO alliance up to brigade

levels. One of the other topics that might be discussed at that NATO meeting is the controversial Northern Ireland protocol built.

Others out of the British Parliament debating legislation to change the protocol, which is part of a post Brexit deal agreed with the European

Union. Irish Foreign Minister, Simon Coveney, tweeted that he's, "hugely disappointed that the British government is continuing to pursue its

unlawful unilateral approach".

CNN's Nic Robertson has been talking about this with the Head of the Republic of Ireland. Nic joins us now live from Madrid, where he's been

previewing that NATO summit.

And Nic explain just the significance of this latest reading and how the UK is justifying its actions, if you will?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, one of the big significances right now where the UK is that the G7 and will be here at

NATO is the UK is on the verge of abrogating an international treaty.

International law that it's signed up to that its partners on that the European Union and the United States all believe that Britain is illegally

breaking this international law.

You heard it earlier from Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, saying precisely that it's illegal and unilateral. The rationale that the British

government is giving for taking this move is that it is what they call a state of necessity, that the social and political situation in Northern

Ireland right now is so desperately bad. They say that they have to take this very strong action, which what he will bring into question in these

international forums. Britain's word is it as good as its word.

Why this is significant in Northern Ireland, and significant for Boris Johnson is because of course, he signed up to this agreement, knowing

precisely that he was going to agree to these protocols, which he did now his backsliding on it.

So I asked Taoiseach, the Irish Prime Minister, what he thought about the British government's rationale, it's written this state of necessity for

backsliding on the agreement.


ROBERTSON (on camera): The rationale that the British Government is providing for changing the law in the way that it's saying it's not

breaking the law, international law here is that there's a state of necessity that there's political instability, social instability in

Northern Ireland, are you seeing it?

MICHEAL MARTIN, IRISH TAOISEACH: Well, the British government is contributing its own share now to political instability in Northern

Ireland, I regret to say. But I think the key point it needs to really be reflected on is the fact that the protocol has worked for a lot of Irish

industry and businesses, as Northern Ireland, businesses and industry lifted British government get into discussions with the European Union, I'm

in no doubt that those issues can be resolved satisfactorily.

But there needs to be a will to resolve this, and to get involved in substantive negotiation.

ROBERTSON (on camera): And you're not seeing the will.

MARTIN: No, I'm not seeing the will and haven't seen it for quite some time.

ROBERTSON (on camera): You're talking with President Biden's administration about the Brexit as it moves along? What commitments are you getting from

them for supporting Ireland?

MARTIN: The U.S. government has communicated consistently over the last two years to the United Kingdom Government. But it wants a resolution on a

negotiated basis. And I think that makes sense between likeminded democracies, that's how you resolve issues of this kind.

You don't resolve it by unilaterally breaking an international agreement that you entered into, not too long ago. We're all democracies; we should

all be aligned, given the enormous geopolitical pressures at the moment and the war on Ukraine.

And the UK government has done very well in terms of protecting and working with Eastern European countries and indeed, the Ukraine itself that has to

be acknowledged.

So really, there was an obligation in my view, and that makes sense that we would work to resolve this issue.


ROBERTSON: And there's a real sense of the European Union, and obviously, the Irish government, that the UK has not been engaging as it could do with

the European Union that European Union has been offering solutions.

The UK has not been engaging in that discussion. I mean, Martin, the Irish Taoiseach will be here later in the week, President Biden will be here. The

Taoiseach has been invited to a NATO partner's dinner, so he'll be around the table with President Biden with Boris Johnson.

So it's quite possible these discussions about this topic may come up, but what it appears we're headed to and it sort of stays just this issue stay

just below the headlines because it's slow moving. But we appear to be headed to a situation and this is a broad assessment of European Union

leaders that the UK is going to continue with this legislation.


ROBERTSON: And that will precipitate a trade war with the European Union. And that could put Britain in a very, very difficult position. And I think

what really irks many EU diplomats, the Irish Prime Minister and others, is that this is something that Boris Johnson knowingly signed up for, but

within a couple of years has said that he wants to change it.

And that's the big problem with the UK is credibility under Boris Johnson is waning as he sits around these other hugely important discussions.

ANDERSON: Nic Robertson in Madrid, where the NATO Summit, of course kicks off tomorrow. Thank you for joining us, Nic. And thank you viewers for

being with us.

That was "Connect the World". Zain Asher joins you with "One World" on CNN after this short break.