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Connect the World
UK Finance Minister Kwarteng Fired over Mini-Budget Fallout; Ukraine: Kherson Evacuations "Semi-Voluntary Deportation"; NATO to Deliver Counter-Drone Equipment to Ukraine; UK PM Liz Truss Sacks Finance Minister, Makes Major U-Turn as she Fights for Political Life; Protests Roil Iran amid Brutal Crackdown by Authorities; Qatar Hosts Street Child World Cup for Disadvantaged Youth. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired October 14, 2022 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, this hour Margaret Thatcher once famously said you turn if you want to. This lady's not for
turning, well over two decades later the UK's prime minister and leader at the same party that Thatcher has undertaken a jarring U-turn. That puts the
country on edge more political chaos in Downing Street is the British Prime Minister makes moves to restore credibility and UK policy. She is
sacrificing her Finance Minister Kwasi Kwarteng who dashed back to London earlier from an IMF meeting in Washington to find that he'd been thrown
under the bus as the Prime Minister's critics are framing it.
Well now former Tory leadership contender Jeremy Hunt takes over as the new Chancellor of the Exchequer. This draws also confirming she's reversing
another major plank of her controversial mini budget.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ TRUSS, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I'm absolutely determined to see through what I have promised to deliver a higher growth, more prosperous United
Kingdom to see us through the storm we face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The Truss-Kwarteng spending plan, unveiled only three weeks ago set turmoil through the markets and at the time sank the --. Well, CNN's
Richard Quest standing by in Washington where that IMF meeting has been taking place. Kwasi Kwarteng, the now former Chancellor of the Exchequer
was there just yesterday, Bianca Nobilo is live from Downing Street in London.
Let's start in Downing Street because that is where the action has been in the last hour or so. Just describe the enormity of what we have just
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's still just dawning on me how unusual this is. We've had a very turbulent couple of years in British politics.
But to see a prime minister less than six weeks into their role be that defeated, beleaguered and embattled already having to fire her closest
The person who introduced her on stage when she was running to become leader, the person who is she is a kindred spirit with economically having
to put him on the chopping block to save her own political skin. And the MPs that I've been speaking to was unimpressed by that speech, they thought
she made things worse. One of them said even for Liz Truss, was not known to be a good performer that was really bad. She hasn't done herself any
favors. We're again, in a situation which is baffling to think, given we've just changed prime minister, where I feel like any day now there will be a
concerted effort to get rid of her unless something miraculous occurs.
ANDERSON: Let's have a little listen to a little bit more of what she said she will be hoping she can survive this. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUSS: I have acted decisively today, because my priority is ensuring our country's economic stability. As prime minister, I will always act in the
national interest. This is always my first consideration. I want to be honest, this is difficult. But we will get through this storm. And we will
deliver the strong and sustained growth that can transform the prosperity of our country for generations to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I want to begin Richard Quest who is in Washington at this point. We went further and faster the markets were ready for is the way that Liz
Truss described what has happened. She didn't apologize, those are her words.
What she wasn't prepared to acknowledge is that it's not just further and faster, the markets were ready for, markets hated what they heard.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Yes and the goal of government is to put in place policies that the markets are expecting not to take them
by surprise. So when she says that we went further and faster than markets were expecting, it begs the question, why? It's your job to make sure they
were expecting this.
Put it another way. Bianca says that the politicians in her own party in Liz Truss's party were not impressed. Listen to Martin Wolf, the Chief
Economics Commentator of the FT, on whether the markets and the financial world were impressed by what they heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN WOLF, CHIEF ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: He had to go; we've completely lost the confidence of the markets and the party. You
can't remain chancellor in that situation. But everybody knows Liz Truss was responsible for this. It was her plan. She hasn't even really
apologized for it. As far as I can see, she has to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, the mechanisms and hows and whys and wherefores of this will be somewhat challenging. But at the moment, the markets are saying, no, you've
not done enough. We need to see a policy; we need to see exactly what you're going to do.
ANDERSON: Yes, the plan was for let's just remind our viewers, what this fiscal event actually laid out. A plan was for $40 billion worth of
unfunded tax cuts, she has rolled back or, you know, perform the U-turn on two of those now the highest rate of tax will now not be cut, and on
So the corporation tax will go up from 19 to 24 percent which gives her about 18 billion, it still doesn't provide one assumes for investors enough
substance behind a plan which at present remains unfunded. That's the bottom line here, isn't it?
QUEST: Oh, it's worse than that, Becky, because now you have to add on the extra 15 billion, that it's probably going to cost, government - cost of
borrowing. Because, of course, gilt yields, interest rates for government borrowing have gone up as a direct result of what they did.
So not only basically her 18 billion fines, that's from corporate, you've got two or 3 billion from the 45 percent. But you've now got to take a dip,
dig a hole, a bigger hole, because you've got another 15 billion because of government costs. And that's not going to go down easily.
It won't go down overnight. This is a massive game - enormous proportions. And everything we've seen from the government so far does not show that
they are competent at dealing with it.
ANDERSON: I spoke to a couple of people involved in conservative politics before this was announced, particularly one source within the group around
Liz Truss Bianca, who had who described to me this upcoming fiscal event.
And this was now what three and a half weeks ago as radical, not reckless, they knew it would be criticized as reckless. But they said no, this will
be a radical plan. Point is this hasn't been through what is known as the Office of Budget Responsibility in the UK set up to ensure that there is
competence and responsibility at the head of government. So it's difficult to describe this as anything but reckless. Correct?
NOBILO: It was one of the chief criticisms, the complete lack of transparency to announce this radical agenda. And you describe it
accurately, definitely in the context of British politics and what had been the norm, this is radical, some might say it doesn't go far enough and
cutting taxes to stimulate the kind of growth that Truss wants, which shows that whatever she does, it's still not popular.
There's also consternation within the conservative ranks now that the actual date that we're going to get more of this information and more of
the plan outlined is currently scatted for Halloween.
So the headlines right themselves, you know, Nightmare on Downing Street tax or tree, et cetera, et cetera, which is just more optics that they
don't need. Richard was making an important point, though, about competence, which you were as well. And this is the issue is it's an old
adage in politics that you can either be liked or feared or you can be popular or seen as efficient and competent. You absolutely need to be one
or the other; you kind of need to be both.
And she is drastically unpopular. A poll, which came out earlier has shown her at the lowest level of approval rating of a prime minister ever. She
has no mandate, she was ushered in on a base of the Conservative Party base, a very small amount of them, and her credibility and competence has
been severely undermined.
And in politics, I've never seen anyone regain it once it's lost. And that's the key point once your credibility confidence in you, trust and
faith in your government gets to such low ebb. I mean, namely one prime minister that's been able to build that back. So where does she go from
ANDERSON: I'm racking my brains and I've been around long enough covering British politics to have a good go at that, I can't, literally cannot come
up with an answer. So you're making a very good point. To both of you, thank you. Steve millets joining us now, he knows all about British finance
here. He had a long career at the Bank of England. Currently he is with the National Institute of Economic and Social Research.
ANDERSON: Stephen Miller joins me from London via Skype. Steven, how does the government restore its credibility at this point?
STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NIESR: Well, I think it's going to have problems doing that. The very first thing it's going to have to do is come
up with a budget on Halloween of all the days as your reporter said, and the budget that is examined and scrutinized by the Office for Budget
So they will, they will say whether this new budget is, is sustainable given the current fiscal position, and the government will need them to say
that if they're going to even go slightly towards regaining the credibility that has been most of late.
ANDERSON: Yes, a budget that doesn't spook the markets on October the 31st, of course, which is Halloween, you've been around long enough to be able to
pick apart what we what we saw from Liz Strauss and her erstwhile friend Kwasi Kwarteng, who has now resigned.
And I just want to before we get to this read a part of what he said. He said, you've asked me to stand aside today, as your chancellor. I've
accepted when you asked me to serve as your Chancellor, I did so in the full knowledge that we, the situation we face was incredibly difficult with
rising global interest rates and energy prices. However, your vision of optimism, growth and change was right. So let's pick that apart just a
little bit. You got the word optimism Stephen, what was - yes, were they on the right path at least? I mean, what can be done? And what was right, what
was wrong about what they did?
MILLER: Well, I think that the target is clearly right. So we have had pretty low growth in the UK now, ever since the financial crisis. And
policies designed to actually attack that and do something and raise our growth rate are clearly welcomed. I think the problem was that they came in
at a time when, you know, there were more pressing needs, if you like.
So there was clearly an issue around household energy bills, households, and firms needed support, to deal with those. And so the policy of offering
support and paying that back later, by increasing government borrowing that seemed like something that they needed to do.
I think they could have done it better; they could have made the support more targeted at the poor households who need the support more rather than
giving the support across the board. But I think that was something they had to do.
At the same time, we were facing high inflation, the Bank of England are raising interest rates in order to deal with inflation. I think there was a
mistake made in the election campaign that Liz Truss ran of hinting, if you like, that she was going to reconsider the Bank of England's mandate in
I don't think that helps give confidence to the markets. But the real mistake was to go for very large unfunded tax cuts at a time when really,
the problem is not in a place for the government to be able to do that.
ANDERSON: Yes. I was going to say, you know, that right plan wrong era is perhaps what you might suggest. But you know, if you're a British prime
minister and the finance minister, you have to understand the era that you are working in.
And whether or not you like the idea, in principle, you have to understand the backdrop. And the backdrop is trying times and as you rightly point
out, and increasing interest rates, high inflation, these are tough times.
The plan just wasn't right people argue for this error. I would have to leave it there for the time being, I thank you very much indeed for joining
us. Still ahead on "Connect the World", Russia has started using Iranian made drones to attack Ukraine. We look at what Ukraine is doing to respond
to this latest threat, that's coming up after this.
ANDERSON: A semi voluntary deportation of the Ukrainian population. That is our Ukrainian deputy in the Russian occupied Kherson region is describing a
looming evacuation of residence to Russia. And they will be heading to Russia's Rostov region.
The governor there says that Rostov will begin receiving evacuees today. This coming a day after the Russian backed Head of Kherson said Ukraine's
counter offensive is making it too dangerous to stay in at least four cities.
Meantime, Russia launching another attack on the Ukrainian controlled city Zaporizhzhia. It's been a repeated target of the renewed Russian assault as
you can see in this video from Wednesday.
Well, the summit in neighboring Kazakhstan, Russia's president saying there is no need for more massive strikes on Ukraine at least for now. Vladimir
Putin also saying he has no regrets about the latest wave of deadly attacks. Fred Pleitgen is in Kyiv for us with a number of notable
developments today. Let's start with the latest on the ground and specifically to what is going on in that Kherson region.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, yes, certainly a big concern, it seems for those officials who were installed by
the Russians now calling on people to be evacuated towards Russian territory towards the Rostov region, which of course is right across the
border really in the west of Russia, the Russian saying or the regional head of the Rostov region saying that is something that's possible people
will be evacuated for a while. But I think what you said at the beginning is absolutely key in all this. Ukrainians are saying that these are
allegedly or essentially forced deportations. And this is not just regional officials saying that there are some top advisors to the presidency of
Ukraine who are saying exactly the same thing.
All this as that offensive continues to be pressed on by the Ukrainians the past couple of days, Becky, they've been saying that they've been made some
substantial gains in the south of the country. In the east of the country, a bit of a different picture, we got some news earlier today around the
town of Bakhmut, where it appears as though the Russians are making some gains there.
The Ukrainians telling us that they have not lost that city yet. But they do say that right now it really is hanging on by a thread, and the Russians
definitely have superiority as far as the artillery there is concerned, Becky.
ANDERSON: Right now Ukraine facing a growing threat from kamikaze drones. These are drones made in Iran. We heard yesterday from the NATO Secretary
General talking about jammers for these drones as part of the new military equipment that Ukraine will be getting from the west. What can you tell us
about these drones?
PLEITGEN: Yes, and it shows how big a priority this is right now for NATO and for others who are helping Ukraine for the Ukrainians themselves as
well. The big problem the Ukrainians have with these drones, they say, look, one or two of those, we can easily shoot down.
But they always come in swarms because they're very cheap, and they're quite easy to use as well and therefore they do pose a big threat,
especially for Ukrainian infrastructure. Here's what we're learning.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Early Thursday morning, an attack on a town west of the Ukrainian Capital. Russia continues its bombardment of Ukraine's key
infrastructure. Across the country scenes like this one in central Ukraine are common sight wreckages of power plants. That tactic is familiar, the
weapon until recently was not.
A kamikaze drone seen here after an attack on the other side of the country in Kharkiv, cheap, self-detonating and unmanned they are a new weapon in
Russia's war on Ukraine. The marking say - but this is no Russian made weapon. Its name is Shahed designed and manufactured in Iran. Known as
loitering munitions, it could circle a target and the lightweight airframe can travel long distances.
The U.S. government says a Russian delegation traveled to Iran in June to inspect the drones seen here and satellite imagery obtained exclusively by
CNN. In recent weeks, Russia has massively stepped up its use of the drones' evidence posted on Ukrainian social media on a near daily basis.
SERHIY BRATCHUK, SPOKESPERSON, ODESA REGIONAL ADMINISTRATION: The enemy is trying to save up on cruise missiles, various caliber types. These Shaheds
are firstly much cheaper, they can be used much more frequently, and they work in pairs.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Ukraine too uses kamikaze drones like the much smaller U.S. manufactured switchblade. Though there is no evidence to
suggest Ukraine has used the weapon against anything but military targets. Ukraine's air defense has been fairly successful in Downing Russia's
drones, but the fact that they are as cheap as the Ukrainians worried and plays a big part in their push this week for more Western help with air
Ukraine's President Zelenskyy says Russia has ordered 2400 kamikaze drones from Iran. Officials here fear that as Russia increasingly targets
population centers, kamikaze drones are a growing part of the arsenal.
PLEITGEN: And such a big problem for the Ukrainians that their military, of course, also sees as a big priority to try and stop these drones. Becky, in
fact, we just heard from the Ukrainian defense minister, and he's saying that they are already working on ways to suppress these drones.
He says what they get their hands on one, even if it's one that has already crashed. If its parts of it, they take it apart, they analyze it and try to
find ways to electronically suppress these swarms, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Thank you. Well, Fred is in Kyiv in Ukraine. The country says its developing new technology then to fight against the
Iranian made kamikaze drones. My next guest says the drones aren't and I quote here "Fast and keep low making it difficult to detect them early
enough for anti-aircraft defense to destroy them".
It's looking like their stock of precision missiles to use Putin's words has reached the end. The former Head of the French military mission to the
United Nations Dominique Trinquand joins us now live. So let's start with these drones. What more can you tell us about them? And how effective are
DOMINIQUE TRINQUAND, FORMER HEAD, FRENCH MILITARY MISSION TO THE U.N: I mean drones are used by all armies currently. Initially, the Ukrainian were
using lot of drones coming from Turkey, and also built in Ukraine, so there was very - on the using that sort of weapon system. The fact that the
Russian are buying them in Iran show first that Russia has two difficulties.
The first difficulty is that they are not able to fly over Ukraine soil. That's why they are using drones because the pilots don't want to fly. A
lot of them have been destroyed during the first phase of the war. Secondly, the rationale not really able to build them and so that's why
they are asking Iran to sell this sort of weapons, which is of course very cheap, can fly over by many of them at the same times, and will flow over
the Ukrainian defenses. That's why Ukraine is now asking defensive weapons, mainly jamming system to destroy this sort of weapons.
ANDERSON: And let's talk about that because NATO says it will provide drone jammers drone jamming technologies, how does that work and how will that
help Ukrainians counter these Russian attacks?
TRINQUAND: First, we must remind that NATO have no weapons only country have weapons, so NATO is saying that it's because country will provide the
weapons either the U.S. or Europe.
TRINQUAND: And jamming is very easy. I mean, when you have a drone, you have to pilot the drone from where you are up to the target. And when the -
kamikaze drones, they just fix the target and destroy the target. So what you've got to see to do is just to identify where you've got drones, try to
identify the frequency and jam the frequency. But very often, you have to have a tool who will join lots of frequency in order to be sure to jam the
right frequency of the drone.
ANDERSON: I just want to underscore what you believe Russia's use of these drones says about its military strategy at present. My sense is that you're
not saying that they're sort of running out of other options.
But you are saying that they look as if they are beginning to lean into the use of these drones more and more. Is this a turning point in the wall?
TRINQUAND: No, I think you're right in saying that they are lacking other type of weapon, that's the first thing, very expensive weapon to the
system, the missiles are very expensive. So they try to go out cheaper system.
And they have look at what happened, for example, between Azerbaijan and Armenia, where the Armenian army was probably destroyed mainly by drones.
So they are just having the lesson from former combat in the world.
ANDERSON: Last question to you, and very briefly sir, have European countries fallen short in their support for Ukraine militarily?
TRINQUAND: I mean, it's a difficult time, because at the same time, we want to provide the weapon system to Ukraine. But at the same time, we want to
scale up our defense system. As you know, in Europe for the last 30 years, a lot of country has diminished their efforts in defense system.
France starts to rebuild its defense system five years ago, but not enough. And Germany for example, this scale is defense system, so we have to make
choice in providing the weapon system to Ukraine, we have very few stocks, and to increase our stocks and improve our system. So it's a difficult time
to make the choice in Europe mainly.
ANDERSON: Sir, it's very good to have you on, important to get your perspective. We'll have you back. At this point, I've got to take a very
short break. But as I say, important stuff and thank you. Tensions spillover for six day in East Jerusalem, what we know about last night's
violence there is just ahead.
ANDERSON: Well, the latest now from the United Kingdom where Prime Minister Liz Trust is vowing to and I quote her here "See through her vision for
economic growth". After what we're starting events earlier today Ms. Truss reversing another major plank of what was a controversial mini budget,
which had been part of her key part of her plan to stabilize Britain's tumultuous economy and perhaps bearing the headline slightly.
She has also replaced her finance minister after just 38 days. CNN's Anna Stewart joins me from Dubai. I think I'm right in saying four finance
ministers in four months for the United Kingdom that in anybody's books is careless. Anna?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Amazing four chancellors, we got fifth now. So that's a pretty exciting stuff four chancellor taking over there, Jeremy
Hunt has got to try and balance the books at this stage.
So what we're seeing in terms of market reaction to the big U-turn, and the exit of yet another chancellor is actually not as much as you might expect,
because it wasn't a U-turn on everything. At this stage, what investors want to see is that the books are balanced.
And we don't have that we have U-turn after U-turn in terms of policy. And frankly, this government doesn't seem to be very credible in terms of
international markets. In terms of the U-turns that we have had one came a couple of weeks ago that was abolishing at the top rate of tax, that was
their plan; they've decided not to do that.
That saves them maybe 2 billion pounds. Today's announcement, which was on corporation tax, which will now rise as planned by the previous government,
they weren't going to do that, now they will, that saves them around 18 billion pounds. But the overall tax cutting strategy from this government
was expected to cost around 40 billion pounds. So really, they've only dealt with half of that, Becky. And they also have to try and fund the huge
energy subsidies plan, which is expected to cost 60 billion pounds over the next six months.
And this prime minister in her bid over the last few weeks to try and gain some sort of trust has committed to not cutting public spending. So then
you have to ask well, where is the financing coming from?
And all that we get from this government is that we won't find out till the end of the month. October 31 Halloween, it could be a pretty spooky time
for the international markets, if they wait that long. And what I think we have to remember is that with politics in the UK, things move incredibly
fast. We've seen that cert in the last few days.
This was a government that said they were absolutely adamant they were going to stick to their plan, there would be no U-turn on policy, the
chancellor would not be sacked. And here we are 24 hours later, and things are looking rather different.
So I think next week once we see what investors think, because if we see bond yields spike again, and I'm looking at the 30 year right now, and it's
still really quite high, I would expect it to be low on this U-turn needs to be honest.
If that then threatens the pension market and the Bank of England refuses to intervene as they did last time, well, that's going to spell a very,
very difficult time over the next few weeks.
ANDERSON: Had it not been for the crisis hit LDI funds, which ultimately was why the Bank of England had to step in 10 days or so ago. Might they
have got away with this plan?
STEWART: I don't think so; I don't think he would have got away with it. Because I think already we were seeing borrowing costs rise, I don't think
was all to do with the pensions or that's probably what it sort of was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of the Bank of England's
But we were looking at the British pound, weren't we just in the 24 hours following the mini budget announcement and it fell off a cliff versus a
basket of other currencies. And I think we also have to remember that in those days that followed, we had a government that kept insisting time and
time again from the former chancellor and the current prime minister, that the market reaction we were seeing was a global economic problem, a refusal
really to admit that this was all the result of this plan.
And even today, the outgoing chancellor's statement, the letter he put on Twitter says due to the economic circumstances that we've had since the
mini budget plan, it wasn't since the new budget plan it was because of it. Becky.
ANDERSON: I mean, talked about the slight turbulence in the market didn't - a week or so ago. Read the room. Thank you. We are watching a flare up of
violence between Israelis and Palestinians. I'm afraid for six nights East Jerusalem has been rocked by clashes between Israelis and Palestinians on
Thursday with some of the most violent clashes in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood.
ANDERSON: And in a separate incident, two Palestinians were killed during an Israeli raid in the West Bank City of Jenin Hadas Gold standing by for
us in Jerusalem Hadas?
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky for weeks, we've been covering the worsening security situation in the West Bank and in Israel. This has been
the most violent and deadliest year both for Palestinians and Israelis since 2015.
But now we're starting to see that worsening security situation that's been mostly concentrated in the occupied West Bank starting to seep into
Jerusalem. And it sparks these clashes not just between Israeli police and security forces but between Israelis and Palestinians on the streets of
GOLD (voice over): For days now, parts of East Jerusalem have been smoldering. That's been your daily violence of the West Bank seemingly
seeps into the holy city. On late Thursday night clashes in the Flashpoint neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, reminiscent of the violence in the city that
help spark last year's deadly 11 day war between Hamas and Israel.
Groups of Palestinians and Israelis are throwing stones, some setting off fireworks. Large rocks littered the ground car window shattered in a
neighborhood just minutes from Jerusalem's old city. Police is erecting barricades as they arrest more than a dozen.
At one point far right Israeli politician - shoot up fanning the flames further by on holstering his gun and yelling at police. If they throw
stones, shoot them. At least five Palestinians and two Israelis sent to the hospital as a result of injuries from stones and beatings.
Clashes also erupted in other parts of East Jerusalem, an area considered occupied by most of the international community. More than 100,000
residents of the Shuafat Refugee Camp blockaded for days after a Palestinian shot dead one Israeli soldier and critically wounded another at
the camps military checkpoint.
As Israeli forces raided the camp searching for the suspects still on the run, residents threw stones at soldiers and burned tires. The situation in
Jerusalem is starting to mirror the worrying situation in the West Bank.
On Friday two more Palestinians were killed in the West Bank town of Jenin and what the Israeli military said was a shootout with militants while they
were in the camp to arrest a member of the Hamas militant group.
These near daily Israeli raids into the occupied territory and more frequent Palestinian attacks have made this the deadliest year for both
Palestinians and Israelis since 2015. As more and younger Palestinians pick up arms and militant hotspots like Jenin and Nablus disillusion with their
leaders, with seemingly no political force in sight to stop what has become an endless cycle.
GOLD: And Becky, I think that's what's really notable is that there really seems to be no political force, whether Israeli Palestinian American
International, to try to come in and try to stop this cycle of violence. And as the Jewish High Holidays continue through Monday, and then there are
Israeli elections on November 1, it really feels as though the security situation here is just further and further deteriorating, Becky.
ANDERSON: Hadas Gold is on the story, thank you. Well, a start report from Amnesty International. Many of the victims in Iran's crackdown on protests
are children as young as 11 years old, their story is coming up.
ANDERSON: Amnesty International says Iran's brutal crackdown is leading to an all-out attack on child protesters who have courageously taken to the
streets. The organization says at least 23 children ages 11 to 17 were killed during the last 10 days of September.
Amnesty released a detailed statement listing the names and circumstances surrounding their deaths. Meanwhile, Iran's President speaking at a summit
in Kazakhstan accused the U.S. of instigating the worst unrest his country has seen in years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EBRAHIM RAISI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT: The Iranian nation has invalidated the American military option and by their own admission, that's a humiliating
defeat to the policy of sanctions and maximum pressure. Now, following the failure of America and militarization and sanctions, Washington and its
allies have resorted to the failed policy of destabilization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, on another note, Iran is pressuring EU diplomats to drop sanctions on Iran being considered by the block. Let's take a closer look
at these protests. Narges Bajoghli is an Assistant Professor of Middle East Studies at Johns Hopkins University and the author of a book, Iran
Reframed: Anxieties of Power in the Islamic Republic.
It's good to have you on Narges; you've been focusing a lot on how the IRGC uses media. And we know that they have been trying to indoctrinate what is
a new generation. I just want to play a clip from one of their propaganda films that they've been spending a lot of time and resources on called
Hello Commander. And this just reflective of the sort of thing that you would expect to see from that government or from the Supreme Leader who
even suggests that the current wave of protests is jealousy in the west over that song. What do you make of what he said?
NARGES BAJOGHLI, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Well, what he said yesterday, in relation to that song was I saw it as a reflection of
the anxiety that they're having that they have lost the narrative control over what is happening, they poured a lot of resources into making that
song go, "Viral".
But it was very much driven through their own media apparatus, through their connections and with different groups around the world. And that has
been overcome by a song that a young man shoving ropes and performed in his room and uploaded to Instagram during the protests, and that has now become
the song that folks within Iran are singing in relation to those current uprising.
And so what we see going on today is an attempt by those in power to regain sort of a narrative control over this. And the way that they're trying to
do it is by saying that this is instigated from abroad, and labeling it as a color revolution.
And what they can't actually ignore, though, is the fact that this is a very real boiling over of frustrations for many sectors of the population
over the state's policies internally.
ANDERSON: Yes, and the song you refer to, we posted on our social channels as well, our viewers can see it there. What you're saying here is I guess,
and I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is just another example of the disconnect between the regime and the crowd,
BAJOGHLI: So you know in Iran, the Islamic Republic has, especially by the Supreme Leader's office and the conservative forces around him; they have
blocked any form of popular participation or attempts at reform of the system over the past few decades.
And so young people in Iran have are becoming increasingly frustrated that there is no other way for them to have their voices heard and to have the
direction of the country change. The election last year that brought in the current president were essentially fixed in many ways.
And so people understand that voting no longer matters. And so this anger that we're seeing on the streets today, especially from young people who
are refusing to go home, is an indication and sort of a reflection of an understanding by folks on the grounds that they don't have other options
open for them to voice, a very real discontentment of over the current situation and the desire for a new political future and a new social
ANDERSON: And that's what I want to talk about here Narges is because Iranian women have been at the forefront of these protests, the government
tried putting up a billboard on a famous square in Central Tehran some of the women depicted demanded that their photo be removed.
And again, that billboard is another tool used by the regime in the past for messaging. You know, these women have are absolutely horrified that
their images are included in this. Another example of Iranian women speaking up and putting their foot down and saying enough is enough, which
does lead to the obvious question, which is the world can hear the voices of these young Iranian women and men, of course.
But what happens next, they are protesting against, you know, this regime, the fact that there is no sign of reform for what this new generation and
are making their voices heard. But where do they go next?
BAJOGHLI: Yes, so that's a great question. I mean, one of the things with that billboard that you mentioned, is that within a span of about 24 hours
that they actually had to take it down last night, because of all the pushback from the different women who were pictured in it. Show it publicly
via social media.
As far as what's next it's a very dynamic situation. But one of the things that we know and that we're seeing is that first of all, this has unleashed
a daily form of civil disobedience, which is coming out without the bail on for women who are choosing to do that.
And so that is going to be something that even as the state continues to repress very heavily and to kill, as you mentioned in the program, you now
have a daily form of civil disobedience that women are partaking in, and that will continue this form of protests into the near future.
Second, you also are beginning to see a lot of dissent and cracks in the political leadership and in the political elite. There are folks who are
coming out disagreeing with this kind of response to what is going on. So it remains to be seen, to be seen where that goes.
And third, there are a lot of other groups in Iran who have been protesting for a long time laborers, teachers, pensioners. And so another thing that,
that we have to wait and see is if those other groups that have been organized and protesting for years now begin to join forces with the young
people and women on the streets and sort of take, then this protest movement into new arenas that will end up becoming much harder for the
state to react to.
ANDERSON: Narges, I wish we could talk for longer we'll have you back. These protests it seems are not going away. And it will be useful to get
your perspective as we move on. Thank you for the time being very much indeed.
In views you can read more on Iran and other news from the Middle East and our "Meanwhile in the Middle East" newsletter there you will find out how a
fierce battle to control the narrative in Iran is now being fought on social media. That is email@example.com/mideast newsletter
that is where you can sign up taking a very short break back after this.
ANDERSON: The convicted Russian German scam artists Anna Sorokin was released from U.S. custody last week and it's now telling her side of the
story. This after a Netflix series that dramatized her life and became one of the streaming services most popular shows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything that is wrong with America right now. A ham famous people are painting a public picture of me as a criminal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: It is a remarkable series. Sorokin was found guilty of bilking banks and friends out of hundreds of thousands of dollars by pretending to
be Heiress Adele V who had claimed to have a multimillion dollar fortune and worked her way into the upper echelons of New York society. Sorokin who
is currently fighting deportation to Germany spoke to my colleague, Jake Tapper.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How's it felt to be semi free?
ANNA SOROKIN, RECENTLY RELEASED FROM U.S. GOVERNMENT CUSTODY: Well, I'm so happy to be given this opportunity. I feel like I'm getting a second chance
to fix my mistakes. Yes. And I'm so happy I just agreed to release me even if it's just house arrest.
TAPPER: House arrest and you have this ankle monitor here. Is that annoying?
SOROKIN: No, I'm getting used to it. They tighten it up a little bit. So it's not dangling as they used to?
TAPPER: Are you allowed to leave the apartment at all?
TAPPER: Not at all?
SOROKIN: No. Well, I'm supposed to check in with my criminal parole and my ICE officers but otherwise no.
TAPPER: Do you have any idea how long you're going to be in house arrest?
SOROKIN: No, not yet. Well, like figuring it out now.
TAPPER: Figuring it out. And then you have this free time. I don't know if you've had any time to binge, any TV shows.
SOROKIN: Oh, no.
TAPPER: There's one on Netflix called "Inventing Anne" and I'm not sure if you've seen it.
SOROKIN: No, not yet.
TAPPER: You haven't seen it now?
SOROKIN: No, but as I still like about half an hour of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And maybe it's what's helped if you stop thinking about me like everyone else.
TAPPER: Like basic, you know, have you heard like, do you think she got your accent because it became - it became her depiction of your accent was
so famous for a while there was even a skit on Saturday Night Live about it. And you know, people would do - yourself basic people would do the
accent is that? I mean, is that something you enjoyed or thought was weird or what?
SOROKIN: I don't think I sound like that. But I think she got me from the time before, because I used to, like 10 years ago, I used to travel so much
when I was like in my mid-20s. But now I just spent so much time in the states and I'm like, only been speaking English. So I guess my accent is
not as strong as it used to be.
TAPPER: So I wonder you wanted to be famous and well connected. You came to New York with all sorts of plans and you're now known as a notorious con
artist and grafter and liner. And I'm wondering do you have any regrets?
SOROKIN: Absolutely, yes. I feel so sorry for a lot of the choices I've made. I was I feel like I've learned so much and like a clue as a person.
TAPPER: You convince people that you were an heiress that you had lots of money that you didn't have and?
SOROKIN: Actually never said that to anybody. That was just an assumption they had.
TAPPER: Well, see you're saying all this stuff to me it doesn't like - it doesn't sound like you're really actually all that repentant. It doesn't
sound like you're actually really regret what you did or even necessarily think you did anything wrong.
SOROKIN: I mean, I've definitely had like a lot of I don't - I made a lot of wrong choices.
TAPPER: Like what?
SOROKIN: While, just misrepresenting I guess my financial - my financial institutions. But I'm trying to like not glamorize my crimes and not lead
anybody to believe that that's the way to get famous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Sorokin was says going forward, she plans to focus on her art. While she was detained frequent posts have appeared in Sorokin's social
media accounts featuring her art work. That is a story isn't it?
Well, before we let you go it's remarkable that we are only a month away from the start of the 2022 World Cup at Qatar already hosting a football
competition with a very different goal in mind.
ANDERSON: The Street Child United World Cup brings youngsters from 25 different nations to the World Cup, host country both for financial
highlight and important cause. All the participants are vulnerable kids, often refugees or homeless.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WROE, CO-FOUNDER & CEO, STREET CHILD UNITED: Football unifies us. And when these young people play for their country, at a World Cup where the
World Cup is, people back home, listen, and people back home get on their side and then people back home change things for them. They help them to
get identity. They become proud of these children. They become recognized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Can't argue with that can be the fourth edition of the Street Child World Cup continues until Saturday features 15 boys teams and 13
girls teams and ten other teams made up exclusively of refugee or displaced kids. Right wherever you are watching in the world thank you for joining
us. If you do weekends, have a good one.