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Carbon, Methane Emissions Hit Record Levels In 2021; COP27: World Off-Track On Goal To Halt Global Warming; Candidates Make Final Pitch With One Day Until Key Vote. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired November 07, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:40]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, the question of compensation is at the heart of the COP27 Summit as the U.N. secretary

general warns of climate chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Democracy sustained, not a joke. This is not hyperbole, it's the second time, not a joke. It matters. It's

in your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Just one day away from the 2022 U.S. midterm elections. The results will determine what the Biden administration can and can't get done

over the next two years. And Kyiv's mayor tells Ukrainians to prepare for the worst case scenario as water, power and heating outages continue.

I'm Becky Anderson at COP27 in Sharm El-Sheikh in Egypt. Hello and welcome to What is a special edition of CONNECT THE WORLD. Well, climate chaos will

soon be irreversible. That the sobering message from the U.N. Secretary General today here at the COP27 Climate Summit in Egypt.

World leaders have been arriving for the first global climate summit. It's a summit held in the Middle East in a decade putting climate change right

in the spotlight for countries whose economies relies so heavily on fossil fuel production. And holding this summit here in Egypt also ties into the

very real challenges facing developing nations and the financing from richer nations that is needed for them to avoid disaster.

Well, we are also looking at the emergence of key players like the UAE where I'm normally based in which hosts next year's COP summit as they

present new and different solutions during a time of political upheaval in the west. Well, will over the next two years. You'll hear from some of the

biggest voices from this region. Right now here's more of that warning from Antonio Guterres.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS: And the clock is ticking. We are in the fight of our lives and we are losing. Greenhouse gas

emissions keep growing. Global temperatures keep rising and our planet is fast approaching tipping points that will make climate chaos irreversible.

We are on a highway to climate hell with our foot still on the accelerator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, effecting real change will be an uphill battle as this summit opens in the shadow of Russia's war on Ukraine. Let's kick off with

CNN's chief climate correspondent Bill Weir who outlines the new challenges facing leaders here amid what are the latest reports of greenhouse gas

emissions and temperatures reaching record levels.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: If Paris was about exuberant hope, and Glasgow about time lost to COVID, then an ideal U.N. climate

conference in Sharm El-Sheikh would rally the world around even bolder climate goals. Because both levels of heat trapping pollution and average

temperatures are higher than ever. And while 150 years of industrial revolution have overheated earth by 1.2 degrees Celsius, we are on track to

blast past the Paris target of 1.5 by a full degree or more.

But thanks to Vladimir Putin and his war in Ukraine. The goals of Paris have been throttled by a global energy crisis, even as big oil racks up

record profits. And while the Paris Agreement never would have happened without U.S.-Chinese cooperation. Now a boiling trade war over

semiconductors could turn the superpowers from clean tech partners to rivals.

[10:05:08]

This could upend the entire solar supply chain, just as a new U.N. study finds that even if every country somehow meets its 2030 targets, Planet

cooking pollution would only fall by five percent. To hold at 1.5 degrees, it must drop by 45 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm doing this for my son. The government's inaction on climate change is a death sentence to us all.

WEIR: In an age of viral climate protests, Greta Thunberg will not attend, calling it an exercise in greenwashing. And pointing to President Sisi's

Egyptian crackdown on free speech. Amnesty International worries this could be the most restricted cop ever which is ironic, because a main theme is

fairness for the voiceless, like those in Pakistan still suffering from apocalyptic floods. Our countries with tiny carbon footprints entitled to

loss and damage claims from those with the biggest.

U.S. and other rich nations have yet to make good on $100-billion pledge to the global south. But John Kerry says he will keep loss and damage on the

agenda.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY FOR CLIMATE: I think we are anxious to do this in a very cooperative, non-confrontational way. We don't

feel that this has to be an issue that's, you know, sort of pounded at people because we agree as to almost all nations now, that much more has to

happen faster.

WEIR: Joe Biden has the clean energy incentives of the Inflation Reduction Act to show the world modest American progress, but he may have lost

congress by the time he touches down in Egypt. The first green king won't attend but after waffling his new prime minister will. And maybe the most

welcomed world leader will come from Brazil for a change. Lula de Silva is vowing to end the destruction of the Amazon.

But Bolsonaro supporters in those regions don't seem ready to comply. Another example of how another COP brings urgent need, high hopes and

endless complications.

Bill Weir, CNN New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, CNN's David McKenzie here in Shamel El-Sheikh. Bill Weir reporting there on another COP bringing effectively enormous complications.

There is a trust deficit from the global south at this point, isn't it, when it comes to funding for climate crisis, for climate loss and damage?

Where are we at?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a trust deficit and the president of the A.U. put it quite plainly that those who

are most responsible for climate change need to pay for those impacts. And you've seen these horrific droughts in East Africa, Horn of Africa, floods

in Pakistan, all across the globe. The very poorest people are dealing with this. And we -- beyond the phase of adaptation, that's important.

You have to stop the worst effect somehow. But now it's at this phase of what they call loss and damage. Funding is needed or insurance or some sort

of facility to help people get through these troubled plans.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: They can't even come up with a -- with a real definition for loss and damage, live and fight. Never mind a funding mechanism to actually make

it work. What are people telling you here?

MCKENZIE: They want action. And you're absolutely right. There's no dollar amount put to this yet. As one person said to me a few weeks ago, they

haven't even decided on the money or whether there should even be a piggy bank to get that money out. I spoke to one Wanjira Mathai, a Kenyan

activist who is closely following this. This is what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANJIRA MATHAI, VICE PRESIDENT AND REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR AFRICA, WORLD RESOURCES INSTITUTE. We have to build adaptive capacity. There is no way

that communities can withstand these sorts of extremes. We are seeing extremes in droughts in the -- in the way we are seeing in the horn. And

look at the floods. I mean, we're seeing floods. Every single flood is like the worst in 500 years, the worst in 100 years. It is the time.

Climate change is here. We have to invest in adaptation. Adaptation strategies that will help prevent and limit the sort of impacts we're

seeing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: There's a real appeal there. I think it's really important to point out that this is a -- this is a meeting being held in Africa. The

global south is really determined it will put itself on the agenda as it were. And then the next meeting, of course, is in the Gulf where I live in

the UAE where at least there are some solutions from some of the big fossil fuel producers being provided. What would success look like here? Let's

just manage your expectations.

MCKENZIE: Well, right now we're dealing with failure because we are not going to meet the 1.5 degrees Celsius Paris agreement. We could blow past

that to 2.7, 2.9.

[10:10:01]

What is needed now and everyone is saying the right thing. What is needed now is the private sector, the public sector, everyone to work together to

drastically change the way we do things. It's not about nibbling on the margins here and there. There are positive signs from the U.S., parts of

the Middle East and elsewhere where governments are really starting to change. One other thing that is important.

And Al Gore, the former Vice President touched on this. We are moving to a phase where renewable energy is the cheapest option. And so, we might get

to a point that this just happens because it's the right thing to do from a business point of view. But corporates and governments and politicians need

to be pushed to very aggressively change, because we've already done the damage for the next few years. It's about the years after that.

ANDERSON: Absolutely. One of the issues then raised here, certainly that will be raised here is the reform of multilateral development banks. Like

the World Bank, for example, and what more they can do to help catalyze and mobilize funding from both the public and private sectors. You're really

right to point out. This isn't just about governments. This is -- there has to be a sort of 360 holistic approach to this. If anything is going to get

done, David, it's always a pleasure. David McKenzie in the house.

All right. We have a lot more from COP27 over the next two hours for you. Later this hour. I'll speak to Adair Turner, Chair of Energy Transitions

Commission And that's working on ways to reach net zero emissions by 2050.

And next hour, World Food Program executive director and friend of this show, David Beasley here with me to talk about climate change and its

impacts on global food change or by this food chains. By this time tomorrow, millions of people in the U.S. will be voting in elections across

the country and the stakes could not be higher. On the ballots or 435 House seats and 35 of the 100 senate seats.

Now the outcome of this vote will determine who controls the U.S. Congress. One of the closest senate races is in the state of Georgia between

Democratic senator Raphael Warnock and former football star Herschel Walker. A record 2-1/2 million ballots have already been cast in early

voting in that state pointing to extremely high turnout for a midterm election.

And CNN's national politics reporter Eva McKend is tracking the Georgia race for us in what is the final run up to Election Day. Herschel Walker

has been surging lately. What has made this race so close in the final days?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: We perhaps should not be surprised by this. We are living in very polarizing times in this country.

And so in many ways, not only in Georgia but across the country it is more about if it is you're voting for a Republican or a democrat rather than the

candidate themselves. But yes, we have seen a lot of momentum for Herschel Walker in the final weeks here.

Conservatives in this state consolidate around him. And if you speak to Democrats, they will say that they always knew that this race was going to

be incredibly close. That's what they'll say publicly. But privately Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, a high-ranking Democrat was caught on a hot

mic saying he was really surprised that Herschel Walker had so much support.

But this race is so critical and so many people are watching it because it could determine the balance of power in Washington. And also unique to

Georgia. If neither candidate, neither Warnock or Walker get above 50 percent when all of the votes are counted after Election Day, after

Tuesday, then that means that there is going to be a runoff in this state. And there will be another month of these two campaigning that runoff will

take place December 6th. Many are bracing for that potential outcome.

ANDERSON: Thank you. And join us Tuesday for in-depth special coverage of what are these crucial U.S. midterm elections that will determine control

of Congress. Remember that coverage starting Tuesday night at 9:00 in London, that's 1:00 a.m. if you're watching in Abu Dhabi where we normally

broadcast the show from. And you will work out the times wherever you are watching in the world.

Well, this is not a war. This is terrorism. Troubling words from the mayor of Kyiv. He says his city is preparing for the worst case scenario that

Russian attacks could potentially leave residents without heat, without electricity and without water this winter.

[10:15:02]

And this comes as Ukraine faces more blackouts nationwide today in an attempt to reduce the strain on its energy infrastructure. Well, Ukraine's

president says about 4-1/2 million Ukrainians are in the dark. President Zelenskyy also warns that Russia could potentially use Iranian missiles to

launch additional strikes on Ukraine's power grid. Well, CNN's Salma Abdulaziz following the very latest developments for you from Ukraine's

capital. Salma.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Becky, as you can see, it's just gotten dark behind me here in Kyiv. And that means many families are going to be

plunged into darkness for many hours tonight. Yes, we've had the scheduled power outages that are generally about three to four hours. You might see a

couple of them a day for residents here in Kyiv. And then there's emergency outages as well.

So it's not uncommon for a family to spend half the day without electricity, without being able to heat their homes or make a warm meal, or

even log in to go to school for many of those who are learning remotely online. And what the mayor of Kyiv is saying is this could get worse, it's

a matter of when the next Russian missile will land on the power infrastructure of this country as the country continues as Russia continues

rather to try to dismantle the Kyiv's power grid.

So they're setting up contingency plans, emergency plans, they're going to have these emergency centers in every single district. These will be big

spaces powered by generators that families can go to to get warm to get clean bathrooms, et cetera. But really a sign here from the mayor as well

who says Russia wants people to freeze to death. But what we're really seeing, Becky, is that people are coming together even in this moment of

suffering, they feel that this is part of their fight against Russia. Becky?

ANDERSON: Salma Abdelaziz is in Kyiv in Ukraine for you. And the time is quarter past 5:00 in the afternoon.

Well, Pakistan's former Prime Minister Imran Khan is out of the hospital after surviving an apparent assassination attempt. We'll have more on his

condition after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Now former Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan is out of hospital days after being

wounded in a shooting. He was struck in the leg on Thursday during a nationwide tour to demand early elections. Well, Khan is now calling for an

independent inquiry into the apparent assassination attempts. And he again clean without providing evidence that Pakistan's current prime minister was

one of several officials behind the attack which also left one person dead and 11 wounded.

[10:20:05]

Well, Khan says he will resume his march towards Islamabad later this week. And in a letter addressed the Pakistan's President Imran Khan wrote and I

quote, "Mr. President, you hold the highest office of state and I'm requesting you to act now to stop the abuse of power and violations of our

laws of the constitution which ensures the fundamental rights of every citizen."

Well, Imran Khan joins me now live from Lahore in Pakistan. And thank you for doing this interview, sir. Let's start by simply asking you how you

are?

IMRAN KHAN, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF IRAN: Well, Becky, they took out three bullets from my right leg. The left had some shrapnel which they've left

inside. My bone has been damaged. So my leg is in a cast. And maybe it will take me for six weeks, four to six weeks to resume my normal activity.

ANDERSON: Well, you've accused Pakistan's current prime minister. The interior minister, and a senior intelligence official for the attack on

your life. These are serious allegations. What's your evidence, sir?

KHAN: Well, Becky, about two months ago, this plot was conceived. I went on in public. On 24th of September I actually announced about this plot. And

let me just give you the background. How do I know that what I'm saying and what evidence I have. It started off when the -- when I was deposed from

government. From then onwards, what was expected was that our party would just fall apart.

In fact, what has happened is that those two families being again imposed on us who've been ruling for 30 years, there was a big public backlash.

ANDERSON: Right.

KHAN: And so, rather than my movement or party going down, it has brought the -- party has had such public support. We want 75 percent of the by

elections since we ran out of power. And so, all efforts will then do somehow make me run out of the race to disqualify me. That is -- I was

accused of terrorism --

ANDERSON: Right. Imran Khan, I -- that background we know. I did with respect to ask you for the evidence behind these allegations if you will.

KHAN: I am -- Becky, and with respect, if people don't know the background, how would they know why this attempt took place? The reason why that they

tried everything to somehow get me out of the way. When that didn't happen this was planned and two months ago, an agency produces this video which

accuses me of blasphemy, then this journalist Waqar Satti who's linked with these agencies comes up with this another video saying how I had offended

the religious sentiments of the people.

Then the ruling party information minister, along with the daughter of the former prime minister Mayram Safdar, they then go on television and saying

how I have upset the sentiments of the people. It's then that I went on air and said this is a planned thing because if they assassinated me the

evidence would go on the government so they made it out that it was a religious fanatic, who's going to -- who would kill me and then put it --

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Right. Let me put this to you.

KHAN: -- with my assassination (INAUDIBLE) what?

ANDERSON: Imran Khan, your allegations have been aggressively refuted. I have to put this to you. Pakistan's Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif has

condemned the attack on your life, wishing you a speedy recovery on his Twitter. The interior minister has rejected your accusations saying and I

quote, "Imran Khan has blamed me. The prime minister and a senior officer. This is such a grievous statement. It happened in the province where Imran

Khan's party is in government."

And the military has also issued a statement saying in part, "The baseless and irresponsible allegations by Chairman PTI against the institution and

particularly a senior army officer are absolutely unacceptable and uncalled for. Pakistan's army prides itself for being an extremely professional and

well-disciplined organization with a robust and highly-effective internal accountability system. Applicable across the board for unlawful acts, if

any committed by uniformed personnel."

Pakistan's ministry of information released a video, Imran Khan. CNN cannot verify that confession from an unnamed man who it claims carried out the

attack.

[10:25:07]

And in that video the man said he wanted to kill you because you were misleading the people. Is it not conceivable that the perpetrator was

acting alone against you and your party's policies?

KHAN: First of all, there were two shooters. Definitely maybe another one. There was this guy who fired the first volley and we -- I fell, and other

people fell because with their legs. We were saved because one of the people in the crowd put his gun down, otherwise we would have been dead.

Then there was another volley came in because we were falling, this volley came over our head.

Look, it was a planned assassination attempt. And we knew about it, I went on air beforehand, I warned them that this is what would happen. They would

blame it on some religious fanatic. And why, after the attack, the things that I've had -- the cover up that is going on. So that's why I've called

for an independent investigation. These three people were responsible if an independent or proper investigation is to be done with them on top, it can

never happen because the investigating agencies are below them.

That's why I also have appealed to the chief justice of Pakistan to have an independent inquiry. If my allegations are wrong, then the inquiry would

prove they're wrong. I know the sequence of events. I know the cover up that took place, and I -- is still taking place. And we know that this was

planned brought down two months ago.

ANDERSON: You've blamed the U.S. and other actors for ousting you as prime minister. And you have made it abundantly clear that you wish to return to

power. Wouldn't accusing the current government of perpetrating the assassination attempt without proof work in your -- in favor of your

political endeavors? That's certainly what your critics are suggesting.

KHAN: Becky, I don't need any reason to accuse this government for me to get back into power. Every opinion poll in Pakistan, 75 percent of the ---

by elections have been won by us, all the opinion polls, this is the most popular party. You don't need to accuse people of assassination so that you

get more popular in this country. We know what is happening. You know, the two people have accused Shebaz, the prime minister and the interior

minister.

Both have been accused for a massacre, 12 people were massacred. And about 60 were hit with bullets. When the police opened fire at an unarmed crowd

which was planning to do a political protest. It's called the Model Town Massacre. They have been accused of killing people, assassination,

extrajudicial killing. This is not the first time they've done it. And the -- as far the intelligence agency, the person -- the officer involved, we

know how the evidence was -- how this whole plot opened up.

We know that the -- how the video, who made the video, from where it went to the which journalist, how it was orchestrated. And then the cover up

that is taking place.

ANDERSON: OK.

KHAN: -- since as you said, this guy appears on television. How was this like -- this guy allowed to --

ANDERSON: I am hearing your accusations. Let me put this to you. Yes. Let me -- let me just put this to you. Pakistan's electronic media regulatory

authority had initially issued a ban on airing your speeches. That was until the prime minister himself uses executive order to reverse that ban.

And some will see that as a show of good faith in light of your allegations against him. Do you see it as such?

KHAN: Two things, Becky. The clampdown on the media in Pakistan is unprecedented. One of the best investigative journalist in Pakistan Arshad

Sharif. He was assassinated in Kenya just a couple of weeks back. This guy was exposing this whole plot that took place against people. That he was

hounded out of Pakistan. He ended up going to Dubai from there. He went to Kenya where he was killed.

There -- two of my closest aides, one was vice chief of staff. One was a senator, Azam Swati. He was --both was stripped naked, tortured, both

blamed the senior intelligence officer who was responsible for the torture. So look, the clampdown that has taken been on media is unprecedented in

Pakistan. So for him to suddenly say that, you know, they will lift the ban on me, it would not have withstood in any court of law.

What basis would the ban mean? And by the way, how come I as person who was -- who was about to be assassinated, how come I cannot name those people

who are suspicious about who planned this attempt on me?

[10:30:15]

ANDERSON: You continue to call this an assassination attempt. And you say you had evidence that this was going to happen beforehand. And you say, now

that you want an independent investigation. I just do wonder what information you were given and from whom to support those allegations?

KHAN: So number one, Becky, on 24th of September, there is my public speech where I exactly -- as the events unfolded, they are in that speech. How

this would happen, how religious in the name of blasphemy, a religious fanatic would kill me and then they would blame it on him? That I -- all

this is in my speech which I put on television, it's on social media. Secondly, remember 3-1/2 years I was in power.

I have connections with intelligence agencies, the different agencies that operate. I have -- how did I get the information? From within the

intelligence agencies. Why? Because most people are appalled by what is going on in this country. What is happening in Pakistan is unprecedented. I

was in General Musharraf martial law. I was put in jail in -- during his time. Never did with we -- the sort of oppression that is going on it right

now in Pakistan never happened even in Musharraf's martial law.

ANDERSON: All right. Imran Khan, we've run out of time. I thank you for joining us. The point of view of the former prime minister and listen, so

we do wish you a speedy recovery. Thank you. We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I'm willing to say that it is far more important to fund both adaptation and actual mitigation.

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: -- you are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. We are having some issues there with our connection in Egypt. We

will get back to Becky Anderson as soon as possible.

Well in the well, there are two syllables long but it does pack a political punch. And now the idea of climate justice is looming large at the annual

at 27th U.N. climate talks known as COP27.

[10:35:07]

A short time ago the U.N. chief told the world in his words that we are on a highway to climate hell with our foot still on the accelerator. After

that, the UAE's president wasted no time announcing that Abu Dhabi is getting with the Clean Energy Program. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON (voice over): Never before seen rain in Pakistan, placing a third of the country underwater and killing over 1000 people and climate change

likely caused the disaster.

BILAWAL BHUTTO ZARDARI, FOREIGN MINISTER OF PAKISTAN: And frankly, the people of Pakistan, the citizens of Pakistan, are paying the price in their

lives, their livelihoods for the industrialization of rich countries.

ANDERSON: Data from Oxfam shows that the richest one percent of the world is responsible for twice as many carbon emissions as the poorest 50 percent

in the last century.

Yet the poorest are often left to bear the brunt of climate change and pay a steep price.

Pakistan's biblical flooding has reignited the question of loss and damage to compensate developing countries for climate disasters.

While a little late, the E.U. and the U.S. say they now support discussions on financial compensation, a sign that the tone may shift at the COP27

Climate Conference in Egypt.

KERRY: Simply put with respect to finance, we developed countries need to make good on the finance goals that we have set. So Sharm El-Sheikh is

another milestone for measurement, for accountability and for focus.

ANDERSON: And here's why that matters. Without adequate financial investment developing countries can't pivot away from fossil fuels. But

there has been some progress. Take the United States and the United Arab Emirates, for example, who recently signed a partnership aimed at investing

billions of dollars in clean energy industries, particularly in emerging economies. The White House said, "to help bridge the gap, the two countries

intend to work together to prioritize commercial projects in developing and low income countries as well as provide them technical and financial

assistance."

Poor countries will want to see similar pledges being made in Sharm El- Sheikh where organized as a vow to make climate financing a key focus.

MAHMOUD MOHIELDIN, U.N. CLIMATE CHANGE HIGH LEVEL CHAMPION: Climate finance is insufficient. I would say as well as unfair and inefficient. The

reductionist approach that misled us all as global community that climate change and sustainability means only decarbonization, and dealing with the

emissions had been misleading. But we cannot ignore the impact of the decades and actually centuries of mismanagement of the nature endowment,

harm to climate and the planet.

If we're not addressing these problems, we're going to be seeing more instability around the world. What we need really to see this time that we

need to shift from the weather and when questions into the house. And the house is all about finance.

ANDERSON: Finance, that's so important for countries like Pakistan, which emits less than one percent of the world's planet warming gases but is now

faced with a $40 billion bill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, along with climate justice comes climate finance. The energy transitions commission is talking about that it's a global coalition

of energy sector leaders looking to reach net zero emissions by 2050. And it says it's going to take big money. Some $300 billion a year to clean up

what is polluting the environment. The panel says there's been progress since last year's COP26.

But there are gaps, big ones as you can see on the screen. And one of them is funding. Well, I'm joined now by the person who chairs that energy

transitions commission, Lord Adair Turner. What can we expect out of this meeting, sir, with respect, the expectations appear to be quite low?

ADAIR TURNER, CHAIR OF ENERGY TRANSITIONS COMMISSION: Well look, on this matter of funding, I think it's very important to distinguish two things.

One is investments. That's a much bigger figure than 300 billion. And that's about three trillion a year. But the good news is, a lot of that

will occur in any case because it gets a return. The 300 billion or so is the sort of money that has to flow from rich developed countries to poorer

ones.

Essentially as forms of transfers or concessions or grants, not stuff that's going to get a rider in return, but to help them do things which

aren't immediately able to go a rate of return. Things like stopping deforestation or closing down coal plants not just in 15 years but earlier

than that.

[10:40:09]

Now, it's very difficult to get this organized because governments feel they're under pressure, how much can provide -- be provided by corporates?

What can philanthropy provide, but somehow or other, we do need to get serious about these bits of the energy transition which will not occur

without somebody paying for it to happen.

ANDERSON: Will reform of multilateral development banks like the World Bank help?

TURNER: That will help in particular with the first category, which is big investments. So think of maybe three, maybe $4 trillion per annum on

average with three by the end of this decade, of that, a significant amount is in the developed world, and China. And frankly, those financial systems

can pretty much provide that finance themselves. But when you get to the developing world and in particular to the low-income developing world you

will need to have forms of -- in some cases, not grants, but low cost finance indeed.

The crucial challenge. If you take Africa, in Africa, if the cost of capital in Africa was as low as it is in Saudi Arabia or in Europe or in

U.S. renewables would be far cheaper on fossil fuels. But it's not. It's much higher. And when your cost of capital is higher, you focus on

something which is a low-cost capital asset, even if it is more expensive to run over time. So yes, reform of the MDBs. And there's a major report

coming out here sign -- produced by Vera Songwe and Nick Stern which is going to talk about how we need to get the MDBs, the multilateral

development banks to invest much more.

Much of that will give a reasonable rate of return. It just has to be a lower rate of return than is currently required for projects in Africa.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Lord Adair Turner, one of the things that is on the agenda which wasn't even a talker last time is the issue of loss and damage. Now, the

U.N. chief has said there's an easy way to fix this funding just tax the windfall profits on the big oil and gas companies. And it's not as if we

aren't seeing huge profits coming in. Why is that? On the issue of loss of loss and damage, so contentious and unlikely not a solution at this point?

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER: I think it's very important (INAUDIBLE) loss and damage. I mean, it is a contentious issue of how big those payments ought to be. The biggest

thing that the developed world should do is to invest in the developing countries to help them mitigate and to help them adapt. I think simply

paying people to say it's our fault, have some money, that's a much less valuable way to go.

We've actually got to help pay for things that help solve this problem and help people adapt to this problem. On the windfall tax, I think there is a

danger of saying, let's fund something that we need over the next 30 years with a windfall tax because windfall taxes are there one year, and they're

not here the next because they're there at the moment because the oil and gas prices have soared.

If oil and gas prices have got collapse, they won't be there in future. So I'm not sure I would -- I think windfall taxes make sense when you say

you've got consumers in rich-developed countries who are hurting from high gas or oil prices. You could windfall tax, and help deal with that.

ANDERSON: You like the idea that the E.U. is going to do that. U.K. not.

TURNER: Well, because there's a natural balance there. And both of those unwind at the same time. The windfall tax disappears at the same time as

the need for it. I think one has to be a bit careful of trying to fund something which is a long-term need with something which is by definition

short term.

ANDERSON: Always a pleasure to have you. Good luck here.

TURNER: Thank you.

ANDERSON: I know that, you know, most people here are trying to manage expectations, perhaps understandably so. But clearly we need some action.

It's always good. Thank you for your work.

TURNER: Thank you.

ANDERSON: All right. The draw for the Champions League round 16. Rekindle that historic rivalry.

Going to take a look at the key games in our World Sport update after this.

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[10:45:32]

ANDERSON: All right. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson. It's last -- down to the last 16 in the Champions League competition and

the last draw made some fans blink. It reminded them of last year because, guess what, Liverpool will be facing Spanish rivals Real Madrid again as a

sense of deja vu here. World Sport anchor Amanda Davies joins me now. What a draw. So I thought I fly here.

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: So I. I think maybe not a deja vu. More a sense of impending doom, Becky, for a lot of Liverpool fans if they thought

the Champions League was the competition that was going to help turn their season around up against the side that beat them in last year's final once

again. It was a brilliant round of 16 draw and we've got more coming up in just a couple of minutes.

ANDERSON: Good stuff. I'm going to get rid of this fly. Take a break. We'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WORLD SPORT)

[11:00:00]

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