Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
1,500 Arrested after Protesters Storm Government Buildings; Israel's Ben Gvir Orders Police to Remove Palestinian Flags; Heavy Fighting as Russia tries to Take Down of Soledar; Police told to "Deal Decisively" with Hijab Law Violators; Biden and Trudeau Meet ahead of Trilateral Summit; Romanian Court to Rule on Andrew Tate's Detention Appeal. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired January 10, 2023 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Welcome back to the show! You're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson. These streets
are cleared but the dust is far from settled from Sunday's savage attack on government buildings in Brazil.
President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva is accusing police in the capital, not only of looking the other way, but of "Conniving with the rioters". Protest
camp set up by loyalists of Former President Jair Bolsonaro is now being dismantled. Mr. Lula Da Silva telling those who oppose democracy, you will
not win.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUIZ INACIO LULA DA SILVA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT: This time people didn't have a demanding agenda. They had nothing to claim from the government.
What they want is a coup. And there won't be a coup, because they have to learn that democracy is the most complicated thing for us to do, because it
requires putting up with others and living with people we don't like. But it is the only regime that allows everyone to have a chance to compete and
whoever wins the right to govern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Bolsonaro meantime is in the United States currently getting medical treatment. He says he will go back to Brazil soon.
Bolsonaro calling Sunday's riots a regrettable episode. We are getting a closer look at the staggering amount of damage that episode cause. CNN's
Isa Soares filed this report from Brasilia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A stunning attack on Brazil seat of power as thousands of supporters of former far right President Jair
Bolsonaro broke through security cordons in Brasilia roaming presidential building corridors, vandalizing Congress smashing window stealing
presidential documents, and destroying invaluable works of art simply running riot through Brazil's halls of power and seems eerily similar to
the insurrection in the US Capitol two years ago.
One week earlier, the scenes were up democratic triumph, as Bolsonaro's left when rival Lula da Silva was inaugurated as the new Brazilian
President following a tight election result. Bolsonaro never explicitly conceded a need that that his most ardent followers.
This this is my hero. I met his home our home our home a Bolsonaro supporters says from inside the Presidential Palace. Protesters dressed in
the colors of the Brazilian flag now a symbol of Bolsonaro's far right movement unfurled banners from the Congressional building rooftop,
demanding the result of Brazil's most fraught election in a generation be overturned.
More than 1000 arrests were made after security forces use tear gas and stun grenades to regain control of the congressional building the Supreme
Court and Presidential Palace. But by the time they did the damage had already been done. The President's Chief of Communication showed
destruction inside his own office.
PAULO PIMENTA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT'S CHIEF OF COMMUNICATIONS: It's unbelievable what was done in the palace. Look at the status of the rooms
the equipment computers. Look at this.
SOARES: World leaders condemned the attack as an assault on democracy. Brazil's new President pinned the blame on his predecessor, accusing him of
encouraging rioters through social media from Florida. He promised no stone left unturned vowing to find those responsible.
SILVA: We will find out the financiers and they will pay with the force of the law for this irresponsible gesture, this anti-democratic gesture of
vandals and fascists.
SOARES (voice over): Bolsonaro denounced the actions of his supporters from the U.S. where he traveled after the election. The Former President already
facing at least four Supreme Court investigations the latest scenes will only add to further calls at home into Bolsonaro's influence on his base.
A conservative firebrand politician who for years has been taking cues from the Trump playbook pushing election fraud conspiracies and casting doubt on
the integrity of the electoral system, Isa Soares CNN, Brasilia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, President Lula da Silva plans to go to Washington next month to meet with his American counterpart Joe Biden. CNN's Kylie Atwood
is at the State Department. Shasta Darlington is in Sao Paulo in Brazil.
[11:05:00]
ANDERSON: And Shasta let's start with you. You're in Sao Paulo, where pro- Lula pro-democracy demonstrations have been taking place. What have you seen and what have people been telling you?
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Becky, I'm right here on Avenida Paulista right in the heart of Sao Paulo. And this is just one of many
locations across the country from Brasilia to Rio, where people took to the streets last night not only to show their support for the democratically
elected new President, Lula, but also to denounce the riots in Brasilia where they say, Bolsonaro's followers have been misled to believe these
lies.
They say that Bolsonaro actually won the election. They've never offered any evidence for these claims. But they have been egged on by Bolsonaro
himself. So listen to what one of the demonstrators said last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absurd it's the worst moment in our history after the 1964 dictatorship. I think everyone was appalled by the images we saw in
the National Congress. So I think the response is this. It was well done occupying the Paulista Avenue. The fight now is to support the government
that was democratically elected, and we are not going to leave the streets. That is the message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DARLINGTON: Now, at a separate event last night, Lula met with all 27 Governors from across the country in show of support. They appeared in
front of the Presidential Palace, locking arms, and it was there that Lula criticized both the police and the intelligence in Brasilia, pointing out
that not only did they not prepare for what was a widely publicized protest, but they seemed to almost scorch protesters, as they say flowed
into Brasilia.
We all know what happened after that, where they stormed the capital into the Congress, Presidential Palace, and Supreme Court smashing windows and
causing so much destruction. Today, authorities are cracking down investigating 1500 people had been arrested or detained. And now Lula faces
the extremely difficult task of trying to unite what we know is a polarized nation. And things could only get harder Becky.
ANDERSON: Let me bring in Kylie Atwood at this point standby Shasta. Kylie Former President Bolsonaro is in the U.S. as we understand it in Florida.
And many Brazilians as well as U.S. lawmakers have been calling for him to be kicked out of the country. What's the State Department's response to all
of this?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well listen, what the State Department is saying is essentially, it would have to come from the
government of Brazil any request for Bolsonaro to be extradited or expelled.
And at this point, the State Department the Biden Administration has not received any requests for information or for action from the Brazilian
government. They're in touch with them on a regular basis. They say they respect their democratic institutions. Of course they have come out very
strongly condemning what happened in recent days in the country.
But notably, they also aren't specifically saying what kind of visa Bolsonaro is here in the United States on that's because they don't talk
about individual visa records. But there is one kind of visa that it's likely that he traveled to the United States on and that's an A-visa,
because it's given to Heads of State when they travel for official business. And here's what the State Department Spokesperson when he spoke
about that kind of visa and the implications, if you overstay on that visa in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: If someone entered the United States on an A visa, which is essentially a diplomatic visa for
foreign diplomats or Heads of State. An A visa holder, if an A visa holder is no longer engaged in official business on behalf of their government.
It is incumbent on that visa holder to depart the U.S. or to request a change to another immigration status within 30 days that request for a
change in visa status would be made to the Department of Homeland Security. So it would be incumbent on the visa holder to take that action either to
depart the United States or to request that change in status.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ATWOOD: And of course, so we'll be watching for if the Department of Homeland Security does anything at the end of those 30 days? If it was in
fact the case the Bolsonaro came to the U.S. on that A one visa. Now the other complicating factor as you noted in your intro is that Bolsonaro is
receiving medical attention here in the United States now.
[11:10:00]
ATWOOD: So it's not just as if he's here visiting, he is at a U.S. hospital and of course we're trying to learn details about exactly what kind of care
and what kind of treatment he needs?
ANDERSON: Kylie and Shasta thank you! Well, just days after a controversial visit to a Jerusalem holy site, Israel's new national security minister is
ordering police to remove Palestinian flags from public spaces.
Hardline Politician Itamar Ben Gvir says that displaying the flag shows "Identification with terrorism". Well, Noa Sattath is the Executive
Director of the Association for Civil Rights in Israel and she joins us now live from Jerusalem. Experts say that Ben Gvir's ban is unlikely to stand
up to legal scrutiny given your own expertise what's your assessment?
NOA SATTATH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASSOCIATION FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN ISRAEL: I think that being a dangerous new entity - there's no legal basis for the
ban that he's trying to enforce. There is ubiquitous by the Supreme Court, favoring - threatened specifically around Palestinian and - that this ban
will set legal scrutiny at least--
ANDERSON: OK, I am struggling to hear you and I think we've got some technical issues and this is an important interview. So let's take a break
and see if we can reestablish our guest. You are watching our guests - you're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson live from our
Middle East Broadcasting Hub here in Abu Dhabi.
We'll see what we can do in reestablishing there was Jerusalem? Also still ahead, unusual words of praise towards Ukraine's fighters from the head of
Russia's military, private military contractor as both sides battle for control of what is a key city in Eastern Ukraine. And we are just minutes
away from a face to face meeting between the leaders of the U.S. and Canada, a look at what issues they will be discussing often.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back! Its 14 minutes past eight here in the UAE just before the break we were discussing the move by Israel's new National
Security Minister ordering police to remove Palestinian flags from public spaces.
Now hard right politician Itamar Ben Gvir says that does splaying the Palestinian flag shows and I quote him here identification with terrorism.
Well, we were talking to Noa Sattath who is the Executive Director of the Association for Civil Rights in Israel.
[11:15:00]
ANDERSON: I think we've been able to reestablish with her live from Jerusalem. Thank you and apologies for that. Experts suggesting this ban is
unlikely to stand up to legal scrutiny and you were explaining, given your expertise, what your assessment of that is?
SATTATH: We have a rich history - moving on the issue of the Palestinian flag. We have a ruling as recent as this February and beginning in the
right after the Oslo Accords in the 90s. And so according to all the precedents, this has --. It's important to note that the new extreme right
government is trying to pass - legislation like this. But as it stands now, this isn't an attempt--
ANDERSON: We are still struggling with the sound a little bit. I'm just going to persevere because this is important. How much is this a test to
the limits of Ben Gvir's authority do you believe?
SATTATH: I think that he is trying to see what he can get away with. He will be met by fierce resistance by human rights groups like us, but also
I'm sure by others around the world. We've already seen, for example, how the - responded to his attempt to go on to the Al Aqsa Mosque.
And this is both a test - he's trying to test the limits. And this is a test for everyone who wants to try and protect democracy in Israel to stand
up to him. But definitely he is trying to push the envelope in order to enforce his right wing agenda and to even upgrade Netanyahu from who has
been the leader of the right of Israel--
ANDERSON: Do you believe he'll succeed at this point?
SATTATH: At this point, I think that he won't. I think that - but he is testing the waters to see how far he can go? And his success will depend on
both how the international community reacts to his behavior?
How the Israeli public will react to his behavior? And how the legal system will react? So far, we've been seeing strong reaction on all three fronts,
and so I am realizing that he will not be successful.
ANDERSON: The timing of this is interesting, isn't it? I mean, during the Qatar World Cup, which was only last month in December, we saw the
Palestinian flag lifted high on several occasions, perhaps one of the most sort of visible demonstrations of support through the holding of that flag
for the Palestinian people. Do you think this may have played into that somewhat?
SATTATH: Well, the Palestinian flag is a strong symbol of identity for the Palestinian community within Israel for the Palestinians in the West Bank.
And I think that what the new minister in charge of police is trying to achieve is that he's trying to instigate conflict--
ANDERSON: Look apologies viewers. We really are struggling with the sound on this. So I will finish this off. But Noa, thank you for joining us! Noa
Sattath and we'll have you on again. We just can't establish good enough communications with you to continue this conversation. But thank you very
much indeed.
Well, U.S. President Joe Biden, the Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau are just minutes away from a one-on-one meeting as part of what is the
North American Summit happening in Mexico City. Now they're expected to address reporters and we will bring you that live as it happens.
Mr. Biden met Monday with Mexico's President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, and all three leaders will get together for a working lunch and additional
talks later today. Now, the top item on the agenda is likely to be efforts to deal with what certainly the Americans and Canadian see as a flood of
immigrants going north? Let's bring in Senior White House Correspondent MJ Lee who was traveling with the President.
[11:20:00]
ANDERSON: And why the issue of immigration and the move of migrants through the southern U.S. border is expected to be high on the agenda? What can we
expect to actually be achieved during this trip?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky, you're absolutely right that that this has, of course, been a top issue of focus at the North
American Leader Summit. And we certainly expect the three leaders to discuss this issue when we see them together later this afternoon.
And one thing that we can report today is the announcement of an online portal that administration officials describe as basically being a one stop
shop that migrants and asylum seekers can consult to try to figure out is there a legal pathway for me to enter a country like the U.S., Mexico or
Canada.
So that's just one of the steps. Another one is the announcement of the building of more physical resource centers, including one in Southern
Mexico. The idea here too, is to provide a place and a resource for these migrants to go to, to figure out how they can properly and legally enter
the United States.
Now, what we are seeing play out essentially is these three leaders showing on the world stage that there needs to be coordination, and cooperation and
partnership between countries like these, that it simply can't be an issue that can be solved by one country working by itself.
Now back at home, I can tell you, there are some questions certainly being raised about some of these new announcements, particularly because we're
really low on details right now, that virtual portal that I just mentioned a little while ago, that's actually not been launched yet, and probably
won't be for a number of months.
So we don't know exactly how that is going to unfold and what the impact will be on migrants? But it's important to keep in mind that when you talk
to experts, when you talk to immigration advocates, one thing that they will always point to is just the reality that for so many of these asylum
seekers, the reason that they go directly to the U.S. border.
And don't necessarily first go through the channels of properly seeking asylum, is because the situation that they're trying to escape and leave
behind back at home is so dire and so desperate. So that certainly is going to be a topic of discussion, I would think between the three leaders just
sort of the humanitarian aspect of this and whether there's a way to handle all of this in a humane way. Of course, certainly back at home for
President Biden, this has been a huge issue and a focus, and also just a political liability for him as well.
ANDERSON: All right, MJ, thank you! MJ Lee is in Mexico City traveling, or certainly traveling to cover the President's trip there, that trip
overshadowed somewhat by news of his lawyer is basically taking some what's alleged to be classified documents away from his former office at the
University in Pennsylvania more on that story on CNN.
Well, Ukraine's President said there is almost no life left in the besieged town of Soledar. Capturing that town will make it easier for Russian forces
to surround and ultimately seize nearby Bakhmut, giving Russia a much needed win on the battlefield.
This fight for Soledar is eliciting some unusual praise for Ukraine from the Chief of Russia's private military contractors. Scott McLean, back with
us this hour from Kyiv and it is the Wagner Chief suggesting that Ukrainians in Soledar are fighting with honor.
It does seem remarkable to hear that from the Chief of Wagner. What do we understand to actually be happening now? We're getting descriptions from
both sides. Is it clear what is actually going on the ground?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, both sides will tell you that the fighting is extremely intense there beyond that there are some conflicting
viewpoints on what's happening. So if you ask the Head of the Donetsk People's Republic, the occupied one of the occupied territories in Ukraine,
he says that, that Soledar is almost captured.
But he didn't offer any evidence to that. The Ukrainian say, hey, don't count them out just yet. We've just gotten word a few hours ago from the
Ukrainian military. They say the situation in the town is stable, and it's even better than stable in some parts along the front line in and around
Bakhmut.
But they also did not rule out the possibility of withdrawing or retreating troops from Soledar. They said that if they did that would - primary
reasoning or factoring in to that decision would be the lives of their troops so that they could live to fight another day and live to try to
retake this territory.
[11:25:00]
MCLEAN: But as I said, Ukrainians are not mincing words. President Zelenskyy described the fighting there as extremely difficult. And it seems
clear that the Russians have amassed a huge number of troops and a very large volume of weapons and equipment along the front line of Soledar
hoping that they can capture that city and then start attacking Bakhmut from a different angle from the North Becky.
ANDERSON: You're in the capitol, what's the view from around the country?
MCLEAN: Yes, so we got word today from the Russians that they will not be releasing a list of names of victims from that devastating strike on the
temporary barracks in Makiivka that even they concede killed 89 soldiers citing in part, privacy reasons.
There is also continued shelling in the Kherson region, more strikes in Kramatorsk and also in Kharkiv. And I should warn you, the pictures you're
about to see some viewers may find them disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCLEAN (voice over): Amidst the destruction, there's movement, an unlikely sign of survival, then commotion as rescue crews arrived to pull the victim
out. In a way a police officer walks out carrying an injured girl who officials say is just 13-years-old, bloodied, but alive.
Ukraine says on Monday a Russian missile strike hit a market in the village of - some 25 miles from the front line. Local officials say that two people
died and at least six others were hurt. Over the weekend, the Russians launched a series of missile strikes on Kramatorsk.
They say in retaliation for a devastating New Year strike on a Russian makeshift barracks that even Russia concedes killed 89 soldiers though
Ukraine insists there were many more. Russia claims its retaliatory strikes killed more than 600 Ukrainian troops.
Ukraine called that nonsense. And CNN's team in the city found no evidence to suggest there had been a mass casualty event, just a massive crater in
front of high school and a lot of broken glass. Some of the fiercest fighting is taking place in Bakhmut nearby Soledar. A visiting Ukrainian
General saw the destruction along the main road and a hive of activity as medics work to treat an injured soldier in an undisclosed location.
Near Bakhmut a Ukrainian drone captured the moment a bomb is dropped on Russian troops carrying an injured soldier. Both Kyiv and some Russian
military bloggers believe Moscow is eyeing a fresh round of conscription to bolster the front lines. The Kremlin has firmly denied it. But it also
denied its plans ahead of the first mass mobilization in the fall.
On Sunday, 50 Russian prisoners of war were swapped for 50 Ukrainian, held captive without any news from the battlefield. What's going on with Izium
one soldier asks? Izium has been liberated, he's told. It was recaptured way back in September.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCLEAN: And Becky, in addition to the strikes on Kramatorsk that I mentioned in that story, there was yet another missile strike late last
night that landed in the city. This one landed on a roadway it killed two people who are inside of a car nearby. It is not clear what if any kind of
military target the Russians were actually aiming for?
ANDERSON: Beginning of the year and the war grinds on. Scott, thank you all! Well, coming up on "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson. Iran
signals a tougher crackdown on protesters as the Supreme Leader appoints a new hardline Police Chief. Plus, it's been said that a picture says 1000
words. Well that is the case in China it seems the satellite images of funeral homes tell a different story to that being reported on the COVID
death toll.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: To Iran for you were a Belgian aid worker reportedly has been sentenced to 40 years in prison, and 74 lashes on espionage charges. The
man was arrested last year after working in Iran with an aid organization.
Word of his sentence comes as concern for human rights in Iran saw globally. Iran's government under intense scrutiny for its crackdown on
anti-government protesters the UN now saying up to 100 people are facing charges for crimes that could potentially carry the death penalty.
Well, meanwhile, Iran's Supreme Leader has appointed a new hard-line Police Chief who has already been sanctioned by the United States for human rights
abuses during the 2009 protests. This it seems signaling a message of zero tolerance for dissent.
Let's bring in CNN's Jomana Karadsheh. She's been following developments closely from Istanbul. Iran's prosecution ordered police to crackdown on
women violating the hijab law and those who would promote the removing of the veil or hijab. Tell us about these new measures and their impact, if
you will. Is it clear?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look, Becky. I mean, as you recall, a few weeks ago, there was all this speculation about whether Iran
was going to relax the mandatory hijab law in the country after some confusing, some would say deliberately confusing statements coming out from
Iranian officials about reviewing the hijab law.
And also all these reports about the status and the future of the so called morality police. And Iranians and those who knew the regime have said all
along, look, there's absolutely no way that this regime is going to compromise on the hijab law something that is considered to be one of the
main pillars of the Islamic Republic and has been for decades.
And this is exactly what we're seeing today at a time you know, after these protests, we have seen more women taking to the streets, going out
defiantly not wearing their hijab. Today, the Office of the Attorney General announcing that they have instructed authorities instructed the
police to enforce harsher measures in dealing with those violating the hijab law.
Now usually women would face 10 days to two months in prison for violating the mandatory hijab law. Now they're going to be facing lengthier prison
sentences, fines, travel bans no access to public services. And as you mentioned, those who they say encourage them are encouraging corruption so
they will be facing harsher punishment according to the Office of the Attorney General.
It's very important also Becky to mention that while the issue of the hijab following the death of Masha Amini really was the spark of the protests
back in September. It has evolved into something more than that, as we have been hearing time and time again from protesters and activists.
[11:35:00]
KARADSHEH: Iranians would tell you that they are out protesting for some of the most basic of human rights, women's rights. Women's ability to choose
whether they want to wear the hijab or not? People being able to speak freely without fear of going to prison, or as we're seeing right now,
taking part in peaceful demonstrations without the threat of the jail and the death penalty, freedoms that they have been deprived of for decades
Becky.
ANDERSON: Jomana Karadsheh on the story for you, Jomana thank you! Well, China has reported only 37 COVID deaths since early December. But satellite
images taken by Maxar Technology tell a strikingly different story.
These images are of a funeral home near Beijing that built a new parking area for more cars as well as lines of vehicles waiting outside
crematoriums across six Chinese cities. Satellite images were captured in late December and in early January just as China's COVID outbreak runs
rampant after dismantling pandemic restrictions. CNN Correspondent Marc Stewart joining us now from Hong Kong. These images, what do they tell us
at this point?
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, there are these conflicting storylines. We are hearing from the Chinese government that there are 37
COVID deaths. But these pictures really call into question the accuracy of that number. In fact, these pictures really confirm what we have been seen
in recent weeks in Beijing in particular, our team there has seen lines of cars entering a crematorium not to be too graphic or grim.
They have seen smoke coming from a crematorium. They have seen crates with body bags in them. Yet, the Chinese government says there are 37 deaths and
that is a conflict into what family members are saying? It is in conflict with what the World Health Organization has been expressing.
So that is why these pictures are so significant. Becky, I think it's also important to note that the Chinese government has really narrowed its
definition of a COVID death, in order for death to be considered to be COVID it has to have been a respiratory illness that was deemed to be
directly caused by the virus so different messaging, different interpretations but these pictures clearly call into question this
narrative that we have been hearing from Beijing.
ANDERSON: This opening up of borders, a relief for so many who've been under such strict COVID restrictions. Also the idea being a relief for the
Chinese economy how is that plan going Marc?
STEWART: Well, I just was talking to an economist yesterday, Becky, and the fact that China has lifted these restrictions is really a signal to the
world in many ways that China, and the global economy for that matter is back in business.
And as you well know China is the world's second largest economy. It is home to 1.4 billion people. So there's a tremendous amount of economic
potential that wasn't in the global mix that is now suddenly being introduced into the global mix. But there are some caveats. There are some
exceptions.
Japan, for example, certainly wants to get more tourism from abroad, but it is increasing testing of Chinese nationals who come to visit. So this is
something yes, big picture positive, but it's something that's going to have to be ironed out over the next few weeks, perhaps even months.
ANDERSON: Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? And experts that I've been speaking to have said watch this space, at least for the first quarter, you
may get what they describe as some revenge purchasing IE you know purchasing is - an increase growth and a spurt in purchasing as people have
got an opportunity to shop once again.
But don't expect this economy to necessarily take off in the first quarter. You and I should stay in close touch on that for our viewers. It's a really
important story, thank you Marc. Coming up after the break, he is drawing the ire of many online. Now Andrew Tate waits to see if he'll be released
from a jail in Romania where prosecutors are looking into claims of human trafficking that is up next?
[11:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Notorious internet personality Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan are back in a Romanian jail. Both men left a court in Bucharest
earlier and they are waiting to hear if an appeals court will uphold their 30 day detention?
Now prosecutors are investigating the two on suspicion of human trafficking. They both deny any wrongdoing. Andrew Tate has amassed
millions of followers on social media with his misogynistic views and his hate speech.
I want to bring in Callum Hood who's the Head of Research at the Center for Countering Digital Hate an international organization that works to disrupt
the production and spread of hate and misinformation, the sort of bile that was being spewed by Andrew Tate.
As I understand it, your organization has tried to address Andrew Tate's rise in popularity and for the benefit of our viewers who may still be
unaware of this man. We don't want to give him any more publicity than he already has.
But by one account, every youngster who went back to school in the UK, after the summer holidays last year will have been exposed to some social
media produced by Andrew Tate misogynistic, hate filled narratives. Talk to me about what was done and what was achieved by organization?
CALLUM HOOD, HEAD OF RESEARCH, CENTER FOR COUNTERING DIGITAL HATE: Well, you're absolutely right that Andrew Tate has found an enormous audience.
We've done some recent work showing that in the UK alone, and billions of views for his content over the last year, and that rises to 16 billion
around the world.
So many young people have seen his content. And his entire approach has been to design a hugely controversial persona that promotes misogynist hate
and appeals to young men in particular, promoting views such as women who are victims of sexual abuse.
ANDERSON: Well, I'll have you back on. I've got to get to Joe Biden and Justin Trudeau who are about to speak in Mexico. It's an important press
conference. We'll have you back sir.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIEDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: --and so many other things. And together, I think we're achieving some really significant
things. Today we're going to discuss how we can try to help stabilize hate? How we can deal with migration and at the same time bolster our national
security.
[11:45:00]
BIDEN: So I don't think we have, as I told one foreign leader who was with a different perspective than you and I have on this piece. I said, no, my -
lucky, I got Canada, North and Mexico to the South and two oceans on either side. You've got to know describe your circumstance. And he just looked at
me like, but it's true, we got to make the most of it. And so thank you for everything.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINIDTER: Thank you, Joe. It's so good to be able to test spend a little time with you here on some more local issues.
You and I have been working so closely on significant global issues whether it's the pressures of China and Russia and Russia's illegal invasion of
Ukraine?
We need to continue to stand up strong for democracy, rule of law for opportunities and inclusive economic growth around the world. But as you
say, there are tremendous things that we can build on here at home.
North America is the largest free trading block in the world, larger even than the European Union. We have a tremendous amount to contribute to the
world, in goods and services, but also with technologies and solutions that the world really needs. And our capacity to work together has brought us to
places of extraordinary success, but at a time of disruption around the world a ton of very real challenges. We can and must be doing even more.
So I'm really pleased with all the work that our folks have been doing over the past many months and years on aligning or coordinating, so that we're
leading the way on the net zero transition we all have to do while at the same time ensuring that individual Canadians and Americans and Mexicans and
others around the world can see themselves in the future in an optimistic way and understand that yes, we're at a time of challenges and strife.
But you're right, there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic, especially for those of us that are countries but it's going to take a lot of work
something that neither you nor I mostly our citizens have ever been afraid of. Rolling up our sleeves and building a better future and was better
communities is absolutely essential.
So as we talk about issues, whether it's a Haiti whether it's some of the challenges in South America, whether we talk about critical minerals and
energy and how we're going to continue to move forward to create those efficient and resilient supply and value chains that we need? There's a lot
that we're going to be able to do together.
BIDEN: Every time you add like that, I think to myself, I should have spent more time when I was in college friends for years but I never--
ANDERSON: Look as if they are taking questions. Well, it doesn't look to me as if they are taking questions, so that is Biden and Trudeau meeting for a
one-on-one. They just introduced the effectors they will be speaking mostly about trade, economic issues, climate crisis at their meeting in Mexico.
The old NAFTA remember the North American Free Trade Agreement renamed under Donald Trump. The trade agreement between those three countries is
what is in play alongside high level talks about immigration as well. All right, we're going to take a very short break. We're going to get back to
my conversation we were having just before that with our guests after this stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
ANDERSON: Right. Now - internet personality Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan back in a Romanian jail. We were having this discussion just before
the break. Both left a court in Bucharest earlier and they are waiting to hear if an appeals court will uphold their 30 day detention?
Prosecutors are investigating the two on suspicion of human trafficking that is something they both deny. Andrew Tate has amassed millions of
followers on social media with his misogynistic views and his hate speech. And that is what I want to talk about. I'm going to bring in Callum Hood,
who was with us earlier the Head of Research at the Center for Countering Digital Hate an international organization that works to disrupt the
production and spread of hate and misinformation.
And before the break I've asked you really to explain the appetite for the sort of Biles spewed by Andrew Tate it is not just misogynistic hate
speech. It's more than that. But I'm just interested in the appetite and why the rise in the appetite for misogyny and how tough this is to police?
HOOD: Well, his message to young men is in part, an apparitional one. It's part of his image that he poses with sports cars in luxurious locations and
also promises young men that if they listen to his advice, they can have a lifestyle that looks a lot like his.
And it's inherent to that view and lifestyle he is putting across that women are worthless other than as sex objects, and they're to either be
ignored or held in contempt, or taken advantage of, as we know, that Tate himself has done through alleged sex trafficking and by his own admission
through a sort of webcam business that he operated.
And he is aided and abetted in this grimy business that he is established by social media algorithms, that privilege content that is controversial.
That gets people to stop scrolling their feeds and pay attention because that's what the platforms make their money from.
They need people to stay glued to their phone, stay on the platform, look at more ads and make them money. We found the TikTok algorithm recommending
Tate's content within minutes to new accounts that we told TikTok belongs to a 13-year-old just minutes into its existence. So TikTok has given an
enormous leg up to Tate and his business model and his message and it's been instrumental in his success.
ANDERSON: There are a number of social platforms that have de-platformed him. But what you're saying is this is just a sticking plaster, correct? So
how do you go after someone like him? And I don't want to give him any more publicity, the oxygen of publicity - any more than then he already has
because he deserves absolutely none. But there is a larger issue here isn't that?
HOOD: Well, there is Becky I think there are two questions here. One of them is de-platforming. Now I've been looking at the numbers today. It says
de-platforming did work, because when he was removed his personal accounts from these platforms, and we did a lot of work with the platform's flagging
to them.
There were lots of copycat accounts, fake accounts reposting his content, in many cases making money from that content even after he was removed.
When all that action took place we can see from statistics TikTok has now released that the amount of views and interest in his content sharply
declined from August into September last year when that happens.
The problem is platforms have allowed him to read built this entire network under a new name and in the case of Twitter under Elon Musk he's been
allowed to make a comeback personally from which he can issue his own statements and rebuild his audience and fan base.
[11:55:00]
HOOD: A time that work under a new name. And in the case of Twitter under Elon Musk, he's been allowed to make a comeback personally, from which he
can issue his own statements and rebuild his audience and fan base. So that's one problem.
The other problem is that all of this has been supercharged by social media algorithms. In total, we can see from TikTok's statistics that they showed
his content to users 16 billion times in the last 12 months worldwide.
So that's an enormous advantage he's had given to him by the social media platforms. There is something that they can do about this, they just need
to stay on top of these copycat accounts which are set up and they are violating the platform's rules in two or three ways. One, they promote
painful misogyny to their mentor inauthentic activity, which platforms will say, especially if it is paid.
ANDERSON: --is something that's so important. Callum, thank you! That's the end of this show for this evening. I'm Becky Anderson. You've been watching
"Connect the World". CNN continues with Zain Asher from New York after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
