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U.S. Defense Secretary Speaks after High-Stakes Meeting on Ukraine; Pentagon Top Brass make Remarks after Meeting on Arming Ukraine; U.S. Defense Secretary Announces $2.5B in Assistance to Ukraine; U.S. Defense Secretary: Germany is a Reliable Ally, will Continue to be; Report: ExxonMobil Predicted Global Warming from 1970s; Founder Reed Hastings Giving up his CO-CEO Role. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired January 20, 2023 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: I'm Eleni Giokos. Hello and welcome back to the second hour of "Connect the World"! Now any minute, we
are expecting to hear from the U.S. Defense Chief who has been meeting with dozens of his counterparts in Germany on Ukraine at stake here, what
firepower they'll give Kyiv as it moves into its second year of Russia's war.
The German Defense Minister says Germany still hasn't decided on sending the tanks Ukraine has been pleading for, but it's ready to move quickly if
and when that decision is made. So what does this all mean for Ukraine now and moving forward?
A lot to talk about we've got CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward in Kyiv for us. She'll join us in just a moment. CNN's
International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson joins us from London. And we also have White House reporter Natasha Bertrand, in Washington for us.
Natasha, I'm going to start with you. The U.S. has said actually for months that Abrams tanks are off the table. Germany says it won't go at it alone,
sending leopard tanks. From the U.S.'s standpoint, what is the sticking issue? What is the sticking point?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE RERPORTER: Yes, well, this has caused a lot of tension between the U.S. and Germany in recent days, because the
U.S., as you said, is not willing at this point to send those M-1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine.
And their rationale for this is that essentially, these run on jet fuel and that is extremely expensive and hard to obtain whereas the leopard tanks do
not. The leopard tanks that Germany and many other European countries have in their inventory are not as difficult and costly to maintain for the
Ukrainians and it just makes more sense for them to have those tanks rather than the American made tanks. Now, this is not necessarily being bought by
a lot of the--
GIOKOS: All right, Natasha, I'm going to interrupt you there. I'd like to take you live now to Ramstein Air Base press conference underway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chairman each deliver opening remarks and then we'll have time to take a few questions. I will moderate those questions and call
on journalists and would ask that we limit follow ups due to our tight schedule. Thank you, for your assistance with that and over to you
Secretary Austin!
GEN. LLOYD AUSTIN (RET.), U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, good afternoon, everyone. And thank you all for joining us today in Ramstein. We've just
concluded the eighth Ukraine defense contact group meeting. And it was great to start the New Year by deepening our coordination as we work
together for Ukraine's self-defense.
As President Biden has said, this is a decisive decade for the world. And this is a decisive moment for Ukraine struggle to defend itself. So this
contact group will not slow down. We're going to continue to dig deep and based upon the progress that we've made today, I'm confident that Ukraine's
partners from around the globe are determined to meet this moment.
United States remains committed to leading in this coordinated effort. And this morning, I was pleased to announce another major round of U.S.
security assistance designed to meet Ukraine's urgent battlefield requirements. And this $2.5 billion package is one of our largest yet.
It helps Ukraine meet its air defense needs with additional - munitions, and eight avenger air defense systems. And this package also helps tackle
Ukraine's urgent need for armor and combat vehicles. It includes 59 additional Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, and 90 E-Stryker Armored
Personnel Carriers 53 M-reps and 350 Up-Armored Humvees and it will provide thousands more rounds of artillery.
Now we were honored to hear this warning from President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. Let me also thank several other brave Ukrainian leaders for
joining us today. And that includes my good friend, Minister Alexei Reznikov, the Minister of Defense, and Lieutenant General - the deputy
Chief of Defense.
Their presentations gave us a firsthand account of what Ukraine's military and citizens are facing. Today's meeting focused on Ukraine's needs for air
defense and armor. We also pushed hard on how to synchronize those donations and turn them into fully operational capabilities. And that means
every step from donation, to training to maintenance, and then to sustain it.
[11:05:00]
AUSTIN: We also focus hard on how our collective and individual training efforts would be prosecuted. So as you heard President Biden recently
announced the latest U.S. training initiative. And it builds on a U.S. programs to train Ukrainian troops dating back to 2014.
Other countries are stepping up with their own initiatives, and many are joining the European Union's military assistance mission. Meanwhile, we're
also continuing to strengthen our defense industrial bases through the work of the National Armaments Directors under the auspices of this contact
group. And all of these efforts underscore how much we've deepen our cooperation since the contact group began last April.
Our work shows how much nations of goodwill can achieve when we work together. And it shows our long term commitment to supporting Ukraine
against Russia's unprovoked aggression. Now, as we saw again just days ago in Dnipro, Russia continue its assault on Ukraine civilian and critical
infrastructure.
And Russia continues to bombard Ukraine cities with cruise missiles and drones. But the Ukrainian people stand defiant and strong. And Ukrainian
troops are bravely defending their country and their fellow citizens. As Russia's cruelty deepens, the resolve of this contact group grows.
And that's clear from the announcements that we've heard today, and I'll start with air defense.
Several countries have come forward with key donations that will help protect Ukraine skies and cities and citizens. France, Germany and the UK,
have all donated air defense systems to Ukraine and that includes a Patriot battery from Germany.
And that's especially important coming alongside our own contribution of a Patriot System. And the Netherlands is also donating Patriot missiles and
launchers and training. Meanwhile, Canada has procured a - system and associated munitions for Ukraine. And so these air defense systems will
help save countless innocent lives. We're also pushing hard to meet Ukraine's requirements for tanks and other armored vehicles.
The UK has announced a significant donation of challenger to tanks for Ukraine. And this is the first introduction of Western main battle tanks
into Ukraine. I also commend our British allies for making this decision. And Sweden announced its donating CD 90 infantry fighting vehicles and an
additional donation soon of archer howitzers.
We've also heard inspiring and important new donation announcements from several other countries and that include Denmark, which will donate 19
howitzers. And Latvia, is donating more stingers and helicopters and other equipment. And Estonia is providing Ukraine with a significant new package
of much needed 155 millimeter howitzers, and munitions.
Now all of today's announcements are direct results of our work at the contact group. And these important new commitments demonstrate the ongoing
resolve of our allies and partners to help Ukraine defend itself because this isn't just about Ukraine's security. It's also about European
security. And it's about global security. It's about the kind of world that we want to live in.
And it's about the world that we want our children and grandchildren to inherit. The members of this contact group are standing up for a world
where rules matter. And where rights matter and we're sovereignty is respected and where people can choose their own path free from tyranny and
aggression.
I'm confident that this group will remain united and will continue to build momentum. We'll support Ukraine against Russian aggression for the long
haul and we'll continue to work toward a free and secured Ukraine in a stable and decent world. And with that, let me turn it over to the
Chairman, for his comments.
[11:10:00]
GENERAL MARK MILLEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, everyone and thank you Secretary Austin for your leadership in this eighth Ukrainian
contact group in support of Ukrainian freedom. And thanks as well to all the ministers in the jobs the chiefs of defense that were here, who
represented 54 different countries today a special thank you also to Ukrainian Minister of Defense, Reznikov and Deputy Chief of Defense.
I had recently had an opportunity to meet with General in Poland, and General Moissac was here representing him. They all represent the
exceptional bravery of the Ukrainian army, and most importantly, the Ukrainian people.
This week after meeting Generals - I had an opportunity to visit some of the training and the - infantry that we are doing at - in a training area
in Germany also had an opportunity to do some coordination meetings - and then attended the NATO chats military committee meeting were all members of
all the tribes of NATO.
I had an opportunity to meet with one of the primary topics being support to Ukraine and then of course, this week ending it today this week with the
contact group. I think that over my 43 years in uniform, this is the most unified I've ever seen NATO and I've dipped in and out of NATO over many,
many years.
Now the war has evolved over the last 11 months. But the mission of this group this contact group under General Austin's leadership and Secretary
Austin's leadership has remained the same. We are effectively committed to support Ukraine, with capabilities to defend itself against the illegal and
unprovoked Russian aggression.
And the word of President Biden, Secretary Austin and many other national leaders as much as it takes for as long as it takes in order to keep
Ukraine free, independent, and sovereign. These contact group meetings play an important role as we support Ukraine in the Defense of its territory,
and they are a clear, unambiguous demonstration of the unity and resolve of the allied nations.
Yesterday, Secretary Austin just mentioned, President Biden released our 30th security assistance package signifying our continued commitment to
Ukraine. This package combined with our previous one includes combined arms maneuver capabilities, with supporting artillery, equivalent to at least
two combined arms maneuver brigades, or six - infantry battalions. 10 motorized infantry battalions and four artillery battalions along with a
lot of other equipment.
This package this U.S. package along with the allied denote donations that are indicated today signify our collective resolve in our commitment to
Ukraine to protect their population from the indiscriminate Russian attacks and to provide the armor necessary to go on the offensive to liberate
Russian occupied Ukraine.
Additionally, this week in Germany, we began battalion and brigade collective training that I had an opportunity to visit at the Combined Arms
Maneuver Training Center, here in - in support of the Ukrainian army.
That training, in addition to the equipment will significantly increase Ukrainians capability to defend itself from further Russian attacks and to
go on the tactical and operational offensive to liberate the occupied areas.
With the training that the United States and our partners are doing the Ukrainians will advance their command and control their tactics, techniques
and procedures, their ability to integrate fires with maneuver, and they will more effectively synchronize all of the combined arms in order to
execute maneuver based operations.
The support that we discussed today in this contact group meeting, the training that we discussed today, and the way ahead, is really an extension
of what's been going on since 2014. And today signifies a very real and tangible difference in the Ukraine's efforts to defend itself.
International aggression, where large countries use military force to attack small countries and change, recognize borders, cannot be allowed to
stand. Eventually, President Putin, Russia will realize the full extent of their strategic miscalculation.
But until Putin ends this war, his war of choice, the nations of this contact group will continue to support the Defense of Ukraine in order to
uphold the rules based international order. Thank you and I to welcome to your questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Mr. Secretary. Chairman our first question will go to - Burger from ARD.
[11:15:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Mr. Secretary of Defense my question is, many of us thought that today we will have a breakthrough in the discussion
about heavy metal tanks. You didn't mention that at all. We didn't talk about the - to or Abrams tanks. Did you talk about that today?
AUSTIN: I think you heard - you may have heard the German Minister of Defense say earlier that they've not made a decision on the provision of
leopard tanks. We're really focused on is making sure that Ukraine has the capability that it needs to be successful right now.
So we have a window of opportunity here, you know, between now and the spring, when I - you know, when whenever they commence their operation,
their counteroffensive. And that's not a long time and we have to pull together the right capabilities. And you heard the Chairman walk through
some of the substantial combat power that we and some of our allies have offered to provide. There are tanks in that those offerings.
Poland, for example, continues to offer tanks and will provide tanks and other countries will offer some tank capability as well. I don't have any
announcements to make on him once. And you heard the German Ministry of Defense say that they've not made a decision on leopards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Next question we'll go to - Ali, Reuters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Secretary, over the past week, a number of European countries have publicly pleaded with Germany to allow the transfer of their
tanks. You made with your German counterpart yesterday and like you said, today, they still have not made a decision.
Are you disappointed in the German position? And how can Germany still are seen as a reliable ally, given what is widely perceived as them dragging
their feet on something so simple? And for the Chairman, is there any prohibition on the use of American weapons by the Ukrainians in Crimea
currently? And you've talked about how this war like many others has to end through a negotiated settlement is now the time for the Russians and
Ukrainians to come to the table to talk about that?
AUSTIN: Thanks --. First, let me say that this isn't really about one single platform. And so our goal and I think we've been fairly successful
at doing this in bringing together capability is to provide the capability that Ukraine needs to be successful in the near term.
And so you've heard us talk about two battalions of Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, very capable platform three battalions or brigades worth
of strikers so you add that up, that's two brigades of combat power that the U.S. is providing along with enablers and other things.
So you look at Sweden providing a battalion of CV 90s that's an armored personnel carrier. The Germans are providing martyrs. The Poles are
providing battalion's worth of mechanized capability. You heard the Chairman Highlight four battalions of artillery, mechanized artillery
that's being provided.
So this is a very, very capable package. And they you know, if employed properly it will enable them to be successful. Now, we're going to ensure
that we're doing everything necessary to ensure that they have the ability to employ it properly.
You heard us talk about training, additional training that we're going to do. This is something that we haven't been able to do in the past. So you
know, as we speak, you know, troops are being linked up with Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles. And they will train for weeks, not only on just
how to operate the vehicles, but also on how to properly set conditions for maneuver, and then maneuver?
And then you know how to exploit opportunities? How to breach obstacles? So I think this will be a really, really capable package that we put together.
And I really do believe that it will enable the Ukrainians to be successful going forward. So this is not dependent upon a single platform. This is a
combined arms effort that we brought together that I truly believe is going to provide them the best opportunity for success.
[11:20:00]
MILLEY: And my first question. Typically, we're not going to discuss I don't discuss either prohibitions or permissions authorities on the use of
weapons, et cetera, that goes towards rules of engagement and we don't typically discuss those in a public forum.
On the second question, President Biden, President Zelenskyy and most of the leaders of Europe have said that this war is likely to end in a
negotiation. And then from a military standpoint, that's a very, very difficult fight. This fight stretches all the way from right now as the
front line goes from all the way from Kharkiv, down to Kyrgyzstan.
And the significant fighting ongoing and it's more or less a static front line right this minute, with the exception of Bakhmut and Soledar with a
significant offensive action going on, really from both sides the distance that for the United States that are about from, I guess, Washington, D.C.
to Atlanta so that is a significant amount of territory.
And in that territory, are still remaining a lot of Russian forces in Russian occupied Ukraine. So, from a military standpoint, I still maintain
that for this year, it would be very, very difficult to militarily eject the Russian forces from all every inch of Ukrainian occupied or Russian
occupied Ukraine. That doesn't mean it can't happen, doesn't mean it won't happen. But it'd be very, very difficult.
I think what can happen is a continued defense stabilizing the front; I think it's possible to clearly do that. And I think it's depending on the
delivery and training of all of this equipment. I do think it's very, very possible to for the Ukrainians to run a significant tactical or even
operational level offensive operation to liberate as much Ukrainian territory as possible.
And then we'll see where it goes. But I do think at the end of the day, this war, like many wars in the past will end at some sort of negotiating
table. And that'll be determined in terms of timing, by the leaders of both countries, both Russia and Ukraine. President Putin could end this war
today, if he started it, it's his war of choice.
And he could end it today, because it's turning into an absolute catastrophe for Russia, massive amounts of casualties, lots of other damage
to the Russian military, et cetera. So, he should and could end this war right now right today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Our next question will go to - ZDF.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much; Mr. Secretary is Germany doing enough in order to show real leadership in Europe? Thank you.
AUSTIN: Yes. But we can all do more. And, you know, United States and every other member of the UDC can do more. You know, Germany has contributed a
lot to this campaign. You know, from the very beginning, we saw them cycle in air defense capability, the good parts, the patriots, most recently,
Irish T, they've stepped up and offered to provide the martyrs, they will provide those martyrs and conduct the training on those platforms.
And we are training Ukrainian soldiers on maneuver and other things and specialty things here in Germany as well. So, Germany has opened continues
to open its doors and make the training areas and facilities available for us to continue to do the work that we need to do. And Germany has also
training troops and training battalion and brigade headquarters.
So, you know, they have a big oar in the water, like the rest of the Contact Group does. And, and they're working hand in hand with the rest of
our colleagues here. So, I think he just asked me earlier, if, Germany was, was a leader, was that the right question? Oh, yes, OK. Yes, they are a
reliable ally. And they've been that way for a very, very long time.
And I, I truly believe that they'll continue to be a reliable ally going forward. Not to mention, they have Germany is host to 39,000 of my troops
and their families and also 10,000 civilians here. And so, we've had a great relationship throughout over the years. And I will continue to have
that great relationship, and Germany will continue to exercise leadership going forward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Our next question, we'll go to - Washington Post.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good evening, gentlemen. Thanks for your time today. Secretary Austin, a number of lawmakers and observers have said that at
this point, makes sense to send a small number of Abrams tanks, if only to encourage Germany to unlock the leopard tanks that they have not sent. Is
that feasible and if not, why not?
And for the Chairman, please, given the amount of Armor the United States and allies are sending at this point, how confident are you that they can
put together a coherent offensive in the coming months.
[11:25:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To what extent, to the extent you can what might that look like? And separately, you just reference the large number of
casualties. Can you give us any update on what you're seeing at this point for casualties on both sides? Thanks.
AUSTIN: I think you heard the German Minister of Defence say earlier today that there is no linkage between providing him ones and providing leopards.
And I think he was pretty clear about that. So, this notion of unlocking, you know, in my mind, it's not an issue and more importantly, in his mind,
as well.
And in terms of providing capability, what we in the department always look at, is, you know, providing credible combat capability, we don't do things
to or employ capabilities that as a notion, you know, as, as you know, for, for anything other than providing credible combat capability. And that's
where our focus will be in the future, whatever we do whatever we employ or so.
MILLEY: So, Dan on the, in order to execute a successful offensive operation at the tactical or operational level, which is really what we're
talking about here, for the Ukrainians, you've got to not only man, the unit, which the Ukrainians have the personnel, but they have to be trained.
And so, they got to be married up with equipment, and then they got to be trained.
And if you look at the weather and terrain, et cetera, you can see that you have a relatively short window of time to accomplish both those key tests.
So that's very, very challenging to do that. For all these different nations that were here today, to assemble all of the equipment, get it all
synchronized, get it; get the Ukrainian troops trained, et cetera. That'll be a very, very heavy lift.
So confident, yes, I think it can be done. But I think that it'll be a challenge, there was no question about it. So, we'll see. I don't want to
predict one way or the other. But the Ukrainian forces so far, have executed at least two and perhaps even more than that, very successful
offensive operations, one up around Kharkiv, crossing the Moscow River and over into the Russian lines to the east of Kharkiv.
And then they've run a very successful operation down in Kherson. So, it remains to be seen, but the equipment's got it married up with the people,
the people got to get trained on the equipment, and all that's going to have to get shipped in into Ukraine et cetera, all put together inside of a
coherent plan.
Obviously, General --and I and others have discussed, what his visions are not an executable level detail yet, but he's working on that. And, and
we'll see which way it goes. In terms of casualties, you know, the numbers of casualties in war, always suspect in, but I would tell you that the
Russian casualties last time I reported out on it publicly, I said it was well over 100,000, I would say it's significantly well over 100,000.
Now, so the Russians have suffered a tremendous amount of casualties in their military. And that includes their regular military and also their
mercenaries in the Wagner group, and other types of forces that are fighting with the Russians. They have really suffered a lot.
Now, you saw that the Russians did a call up have called out, I think, called up mobilization 300,000, I think they were able to get maybe
250,000, something that range. So, they're replacing their losses in terms of manpower, but they have suffered a huge amount. Ukraine has also
suffered tremendously, you know, that there's a significant amount of innocent civilians that have been killed.
And as a result of the Russian actions, the Russians are hitting civilian infrastructure. There's a significant amount of economic damage,
significant amount of damage to the energy infrastructure. And the Russian or the Ukrainian military has suffered a significant amount of casualties
themselves.
So, this is a very, very bloody war. And there are significant casualties on both sides. And this is why I say that I think that sooner or later,
this is going to have to get to a negotiating table at some point in order to bring this to a conclusion.
And that will have to happen when the end state which is a free sovereign, independent Ukraine with his territory in --. When that day comes when
people sit down and negotiate an end to this, but there's been a huge amount of suffering on both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, that is all the time we have available today. Mr. Secretary General Milley thank you both gentlemen,
this concludes our press briefing. Thank you.
GIOKOS: All right. Press Conference at Ramstein Air Base wraps up that was Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley and also U.S. Defence Secretary Lloyd
Austin tabling what this new package from the United States entails. And also importantly the donations from regional players we have the Secretary,
Defence Secretary saying that this is a capable package that will enable Ukraine to be successful, but it is important to synchronize all donations.
[11:30:00]
GIOKOS: And then we heard Mark Milley talking about the logistics, getting all the military hardware together, getting the skills that are required,
and making sure that there's training on the other side as well. So, what does this all mean for Ukraine and moving forward?
A lot to talk about, we've got CNN's International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joining us from London. We also have White House reporter Natasha
Bertrand in Washington. Nic, what they didn't really talk about in their official statements. In fact, they didn't talk about at all was the
question on the leopard tanks.
The Germany has again not decided on whether they will send Donetsk, the U.S. saying that they will not be sending Abrams tanks. It was one of the
big questions around whether this package will entail it. The Ukrainians are calling for tanks. What did you make of the messaging around this? It
seems still unclear where the Germans stand at this juncture.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think one of the big and important parts of the messaging came quite high up from Secretary
Austin, he said several times that the need in Ukraine is urgent. So that was one of my big takeaways that the reminder there that this is work that
needs to be done that this equipment needs to go urgently, all the military equipment, the military equipment, he specified as what they could best use
this time for what they need.
And the other word that he used a lot there was unity. He multiple times talked about, you know, this being the eighth session of this contact
group, that there was building unity that there was momentum towards greater unity, because obviously what sort of the way that this meeting has
been set up or not set up but cast as really disunity between the United States and Germany and over the issue of tanks.
And he was very clear that he said that Germany just has not taken that decision yet. So, the emphasis here is on the urgent need is on unity. But
it was very interesting listening to General Mark Milley say that essentially, that this war is going to go on beyond this year that Ukraine
won't be able to take back the territories that it wants.
And of course, he is a general who has been quite forward in talking about the need to get to a negotiating table. Perhaps the other takeaway is the
sheer scale of what Ukraine is getting in terms of you know, when it's talked about rather than in numbers of pieces of equipment, 350 up armored
Humvees, 90 strikers, Bradley Fighting Vehicles when it's set up in terms of sort of brigades or battalions, battalion of equipment worth of
equipment coming from Sweden, for example, and all the other nations.
It's a huge amount of equipment. And you begin to see that Ukraine, as, as General Milley said can operate tactically, but really to be effective as a
modern army with all this modern equipment is going to need to be a lot more joined up. So, the big takeaway is the decision on tanks yet to be
firmed up, that this fight is going to go on for a long time.
And really Ukraine is only in the process of building the army that's ultimately going to do the job that they want it to do that we're told
there is the support to do.
GIOKOS: Yes, really interesting. And of course, they both reiterated there's a short window that is available before the spring. And that's
going to be quite vital. Natasha, I want to bring you in here. Quite a few questions around Germany, whether they're reliable partner, but also,
importantly, the unity question which Nic reiterated, which, of course, came through quite strongly.
The U.S. says it's doing what it can, it reiterated just how much aid it's been offering Ukraine. And it seems that the question on the tanks keeps on
coming up, because that is a sticking point, not so much in terms of what impact it could have on the ground, but in terms of the relations between
the U.S. and Germany, which is becoming interesting.
BERTRAND: Yes. And interestingly, when he was asked specifically, if Germany could be doing more here, he said, yes, but we all could be doing
more. And that is part of the ongoing discussions that these NATO members are having every time this contact group meets.
They discuss whether to incrementally, of course, increase the sophistication and the level and the amount of weaponry to give to
Ukrainian forces, because obviously, the nature of this conflict, it has changed since last year, Russia mobilized additional forces.
There are now many more Russian troops in Ukraine than there were late last year because of that mobilization so the battlefield is kind of shifting
here and they're very concerned that Russia could launch some kind of big offensive in the spring.
[11:35:00]
BERTRAND: So now what we're seeing is all of this effort kind of being funneled into this Ukraine contact group and trying to figure out what
Ukraine's needs are at this moment. Now, some countries, primarily Eastern European countries, countries like Finland, for example, they believe that
what Ukraine could really use now are these tanks.
Because they represent one of the most important and direct offensive weapons that Ukraine could use to potentially drive Russians out of their
territory, because the Ukrainians are also of course, not getting those longer-range missiles that they have been asking for.
So, tank seem to be, according to many European officials that we speak to one of the most effective things that they could use to drive Russians out
of their territory. But of course, we see that this is causing a lot of heartburn in Berlin, for moral reasons, for historical reasons.
They just are very wary of sending those tanks to the Ukrainians right now and are really not willing to do so. We are told, without coordination with
the United States on this, they want to be seen as being in lockstep with the U.S. when it comes to sending those tanks.
So, it really remains to be seen whether this changes because of course, the Germans are still considering it. They have not said that it is
completely off the table. But those you know, Europeans, like the polls, for example and the fence, they're really itching to send these leopard
tanks that they have in their inventory to Ukraine. So, it'll be interesting to see whether they just outright kind of defy Berlin and go
ahead and send those unilaterally.
GIOKOS: Yes, Nic, I spoke to a German MP in the last hour, and he said that Putin is probably smiling right now watching this divergent view on the
tanks. But we've also heard from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, saying we regard all this open provocation, incitement by the West and
increase in the stakes of the conflict. Interesting response, but not shocking.
ROBERTSON: But not shocking. And I think we've heard various things coming from the Kremlin. And there's a lot to read into this. What we've heard
from Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin's spokesman saying none of all this additional material that's being sent by NATO into Ukraine is going to
affect the outcome of the war. He's trying to play it all down.
Yet on the other hand, you have people like the former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev saying, no one's going to take on and crush the Russian,
the Russian state. And if they do, we use nuclear weapons. So, you know, raising the threat there.
What the Kremlin has been doing is trying to play every piece of military equipment that is sent to Ukraine as a NATO threat against Russia, because
that's what it requires to mobilize its population to go and die in Ukraine. They don't want to go there and fight and die for Putin's belief
that Ukraine is part of Russia.
But if the Kremlin can convince them that they at home in their homes in Moscow will be under threat from NATO, then that can be a motivating force.
And perhaps that's part of why we're beginning to see some air defense systems being put on the roofs of government buildings in Moscow.
It conveys that message, the Russian population that you're under threat; commit your sons, your daughters, your husbands, et cetera to the frontline
in Ukraine. That's the message that the Kremlin is really trying to drive behind whatever the Kremlin spokesman says about playing it down. There's
another narrative going on.
GIOKOS: Absolutely. And this is a big package. It's a lot of new military hardware for Ukraine. Thank you very much, Nic Robertson, Natasha Bertrand.
I appreciate it. So, Peru appears at the precipice of a dangerous escalation in the unrest that's gripped the country since late last year.
These are some of the clashes that broke up in Lima on Thursday after protesters from outlying areas marched on the Capitol.
At least one person died and at least 30 others were injured in the clashes. It's a historic building that also caught a light in the center of
Lima. The protesters are demanding new elections and the president's resignation. Their march on Lima follows weeks of sometimes violent
demonstrations in smaller cities around the country.
Journalist Stefano Pozzebon is watching all of this from nearby Colombia. And of course, the president is saying she wants dialogue, the protests
want her out of office. Where do things stand right now? I think there's a sense of fear that this could escalate further.
STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, definitely there is the feeling in Peru that this is not a - the resolution to these crises is not going to come
anytime soon because the demands of these protesters are dating back from decades.
And yesterday, Boluarte who is the sixth head of state in less than five years just to give you an idea of the dimension and the depth of the
political crisis, Peru is currently finding himself into. Yesterday Boluarte used a little bit of a mixture of a carrot and a stick while
referring to the protests.
[11:40:00]
POZZEBON: Because on one side she said that she's ready for dialogue but on the other she condemned the violence and then put it firm attack on those
who says they want to remove her from power. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DINA BOLUARTE, PERUVIAN PRESIDENT: You want to break the rule of law; you want to create chaos and disorder so that during this chaos you can take
over the Nationals power, you are mistaken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: So, these leaves, of course, the two sides in very distant and on very distant grounds because on one side you have thousands of people who
in the last two days have converged over the city of Lima and are saying by the way, that they're not having any intention to go back to their homes
until Boluarte resigns.
And on the other one, you have Boluarte herself who says that they are mistaken, despite the fact that she has an approval rate of over 70
percent. And this is happening after more than 50 people have died in this protest that the vast majority over 40 of them in clashes with Peruvian
police according to the country's Ombudsman's office.
And so, it's really an ugly situation going over in Lima with all the potential to escalate even further, Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yes. Stefano Pozzebon, thank you so very much. And we've just got news in that three more areas regions in Peru have now been put on the list
for 30 days of state of emergency versus added on to the region's already that are under state of emergency as well that just into CNN a short while
ago.
A new report says ExxonMobil publicly disputed climate science for years while internally its scientists accurately predicted global warming will
speak to the report's lead author right after the short break stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back. All this week we've been talking about the climate crisis with a focus on the progress as well as the challenges of moving to
cleaner energy and the role of fossil fuels in our future. A new report in the journal science shows oil giant ExxonMobil knew the problem with fossil
fuels as far back as the 1970s.
Its own sciences predicting future global warming despite the company for years casting doubts on climate science and lobbying against climate action
the report shows ExxonMobil's climate models predicted the rise in global warming and the impact of fossil fuels very accurately.
In response the spokesperson for Exxon said the oil company is committed to being part of the solution to climate change but added that those who talk
about our exit new are wrong.
[11:45:00]
GIOKOS: We're now joined by lead author of that study, Geoffrey Supran, who is now an Associate Professor of Environmental Science and Policy at the
University of Miami. He joins us now from Florida via Skype to help shed light on this. You know, this has been making the rounds. And I was asking
myself am I shocked that oil companies could have known about this as far back as the 1970s.
You've concluded that ExxonMobil did accurately predict global warming. They've downplayed this; they've denied perhaps plausible deniability. Are
you surprised by the findings? And that's something perhaps could have been done decades ago.
GEOFFREY SUPRAN, LEAD AUTHOR, "ASSESSING EXXONMOBIL'S GLOBAL WARMING PROJECTIONS": Hi Eleni, thanks for having me. Yes, of course, in some
sense, I think along the same lines, as you, you know, we had no reason to be surprised because we and other scholars and journalists have been
investigating Exxon's history on climate change for a number of years.
And so, we knew going into this, broadly speaking, that the company has had a broad involvement in climate science research for decades. But I have to
say that the first time I extracted and plotted all of Exxon's global warming predictions on one graph.
And then overlaid real world historical observed temperatures and you see all of Exxon's curves line up right on or around that that curves of
reality it really took my breath away. Because you know, that chart and our statistical analysis of it show that Exxon didn't just vaguely know
something about global warming decades ago.
They knew as much as anybody as independent, academic and government scientists, specifically, they knew that burning fossil fuels would heat
our planet by 0.2 degrees Celsius, every single decade. And so, in that sense, arguably, they knew all they needed to know, more than a decade
before I was even born, of course, only to then spend almost my entire lifetime attacking that very climate science.
GIOKOS: Yes, there's so much contradiction in this entire scenario, because they say that they're committed to climate change and the risks of that
it's posing. But then it comes to question in terms of the action to hold ExxonMobil accountable for its impact on climate change and the fact that
they knew and look, here's the reality, oil companies, mining companies, they employ environmental impact.
Scientists, they take a look at what the impacts are. Now, it's a rule that you have to have EIA done within your business operations. But surely there
needs to be some sort of change a chain of responsibility here.
SUPRAN: Sure, I mean, I think that one thing that you know, your audience might be interested in knowing is that between 2010 and 2018, Exxon spent
just 0.2 percent of their budget on low carbon technologies, the other 99.8 percent continued to go towards the exploration and extraction of oil and
gas that humanity can never safely afford to burn.
And that is green washing 101, talk green and act dirty. And so unfortunately, their response to our study is frankly, just a distraction
from what is really just black and white data, their own data that shows what they knew and when.
GIOKOS: So, Exxon says those who talk about how Exxon new are wrong. You say you've worked with ExxonMobil's data. Give me a sense of your process
of your methodology and how it perhaps would stand up in court, or, you know, being able to justify what you have found in the very work and
research that they conducted?
SUPRAN: Sure, I mean, I should preface my answer by saying that to be clear, I'm not a lawyer. But you know, to put it frankly, ExxonMobil is now
misleading the public about its history of misleading the public, because their response, simply blanket saying that we're wrong, is afraid just not
how science works. You know, what we've done, in a way is extremely straightforward.
We have taken the company's own global warming predictions. We plotted them together on a graph. And then we've overlaid historical observations. And
they line up both visually and statistically. And so, in that sense, this is an open and show case, and they can't just dismiss our data with they're
wrong.
Again, I'm not a lawyer, but the impression I get from those I speak to is that this sort of quantitative evidence that can literally put a number on
and paint a picture of how Exxon knew and misled may be compelling in both courts and the courts of public opinion.
GIOKOS: Yes. As you say, you're not a lawyer. You're a scientist. It's really interesting. Look, how can this report be used?
[11:50:00]
SUPRAN: Well, I think that, you know, one of the pieces of feedback I've received most is, as I said, that by simply putting a number and painting a
picture of what they knew, it helps establish the case for deception. Deception, in simple terms is what did they know? And then how did they
act? And what did they say with that knowledge?
And so, by bringing statistical rigor to the early climate knowledge and contrasting that against with decades of climate denial, we strengthen the
case that ExxonMobil misled the public and policymakers.
GIOKOS: Geoffrey Supran, thank you very much for your work. Thank you for your insights, great to see you. And still to come there's been a changing
of the guard so to speak within one of the biggest online streaming giants. What does the shaking up mean for the future of Netflix and its
subscribers?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: The world's leading streaming service is changing things up a little with a new leader, Netflix founder Reed Hastings is stepping down as
Co-CEO saying even founders need to evolve. Hastings changed the way we watch movies and television by creating Netflix more than 25 years ago.
The company reported its fourth quarter results saying growth is accelerating thanks to original content like Harry and Megan. Netflix added
more than 7 million subscribers during the fourth quarter now more than 230 million around the world. CNN's Paula Monica joining us, it's an end of an
era interesting that he says that even CEOs and founders need to evolve. What does this mean for Netflix?
PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNN REPORTER: Yes. I'm not sure it marks that dramatic of a change to be honest, Eleni because for one Reed Hastings is staying at
Netflix and he's now at the executive chairman level. So, he's arguably even a bigger boss than he was, as a Co-CEO, this would be more of a shock
if it was, hey, there might be a job opening at Disney when Bob Iger re- retires, and Reed Hastings decided to go there.
That would obviously be something that would completely upset the streaming media landscape. And that, of course, is not happening. So, I think this is
really more an evolution at Netflix and it's a sign. As we've seen with their earnings results, there was a lot of flak that the company took when
they finally caved if you will, and announced that they were adopting a lower price service with ads.
Subscriber growth seems to suggest that they are gaining new customers for that product and that people with existing premium subscriptions are
trading down because on the conference call, they said the executives that they did not see evidence that existing long term subscribers were opting
for that cheaper plan. They were sticking with the premium one.
So, I think that's great news for Netflix, if they're gaining new customers and keeping the older ones at that higher price point.
GIOKOS: It's always about price points, right especially when the economy is doing badly very quickly. It's also a race for original content and we
know this industry is fluid. So, you know you perhaps would be as subscribing on one platform and joining another depending on the offerings
as well. Can they keep up this momentum?
[11:55:00]
MONICA: Yes, I think that what we have seen is that clearly there is streaming fatigue, but every streaming network realizes that they have to
have that - content that people want as you mentioned Harry & Meghan, but also Wednesday huge hit for them.
GIOKOS: I didn't bench watch any of those or may I don't. Paula Monica, thank you so much. Always good to see you much appreciate it. All right so,
thanks so much for joining us. That was "Connect the World". CNN continues after this short break, take care.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
