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Conflicting Statements on Sudan Cease-Fire; Russian Court Upholds Terms of Evan Gershkovich's Detention; Interview with Egyptian Foreign Minister on Fighting in Sudan; Dominion v. FOX News Trial; FBI Arrests Alleged Chinese Agents in New York; Holocaust Remembrance Day; AI Generated Photo Wins Contest. Aired 10-10:41a ET

Aired April 18, 2023 - 10:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

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CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Hello and welcome. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London, in for my colleague, Becky Anderson. This

is CONNECT THE WORLD.

Coming up this hour, Sudan's warring parties approve a 24 hour ceasefire. I'll speak to Egypt's foreign minister.

Moscow denies Evan Gershkovich's appeal on detention.

The FOX News defamation trial is underway in the United States.

And later in the show, Champions League football is back. A look at what's ahead in the second leg of the quarterfinals.

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MACFARLANE: A temporary ceasefire in Sudan could begin in just two hours. But there are conflicting statements about whether it will actually happen.

Earlier Tuesday, the leaders of Sudan's military and Rapid Support Forces both voiced approval of a 24 hour truce after intervention from

international organizations and the U.S. secretary of state.

Later, though the armed forces' official Facebook page disputed the announcement and claimed it would soon inflict a, quote, "crushing defeat"

on paramilitary forces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE (voice-over): U.N. reports at least 180 people killed and 1,800 injured during four days of intense fighting, as the rival generals battle

for control. Targets include hospitals, a university and even foreign diplomats. There is a lot to unpack here. We've got Nima Elbagir tracking

developments for us from London.

First, if we can turn to this cease-fire, because we know as I say that there have been conflicting reports from either side committing to this 24

hour truce. I know you've been speaking to sources on the ground.

So where do we stand on this right now?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the initial confirmation came directly to us from General Burhan, the head

of Sudan's army. So it was quite a surprise to have, less than an hour later, the official Facebook page of Sudan's armed forces say that there

weren't even any ongoing negotiations.

But now, in a further turn of the narrative, we have a very senior armed forces general, who has said that there will be a cease-fire, which,

Christina, I have to tell you, the people that we are speaking to in Sudan, for them the cease-fire is absolutely paramount.

Fighting, if possible today, is even more intense than it has been in previous days. More fighter jets have been deployed, more aerial

bombardment. It all feels very, very close whenever we speak to eyewitnesses on the ground.

You can hear it in the background of the calls. So if this cease-fire is successful, people will breathe an absolute sigh of relief.

MACFARLANE: Yes, it does feel like the civilian population here have been taken hostage. We know that hospitals have been targeted and some of them

actually badly damaged and that this fighting now, if it goes on, has the potential to cause a health crisis.

How precarious is the situation, given the reports of water and power outages?

ELBAGIR: It feels like the system is in a stage of collapse. Sudanese doctors have told us that all major hospitals have either been taken

offline, they've been shuttered because doctors are unable to function in those kind of war conditions, or they have been forcibly evacuated.

And CNN has now seen an internal U.N. briefing document which spoke about some horrific incidents, happening under cover of the broader fighting. The

houses of people working for international organizations and the U.N. stormed by armed gunmen, women and men separated and taken away.

Women assaulted; at least one case of rape reported. In terms of the hospitals, we managed to speak to some doctors. This is a little bit of

what we were able to find out, Christina.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Sudan's military with a show of strength over the capital Khartoum.

As birdsong and artillery fire echo, this country roiled in recent years by conflict and coups, is once again the placing of strongmen and what the

military is calling an attempted coup.

Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, Sudan's military's leader, is fighting for dominance with Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo, known as Hemedti, who leads the

paramilitary Rapid Support Forces, which gain notoriety in the western Darfur region and it is the most vulnerable who are paying the price.

[10:05:00]

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Two doctors' organization say that in Khartoum, both sides have hit hospitals in the fighting, at least half a dozen, though

both sides deny it.

CNN obtained eyewitness accounts from doctors on the ground who told CNN that the paramilitary Rapid Support Force directly targeted a hospital

where wounded armed forces, soldiers and their families were being treated, including one doctor who says she witnessed the RSF approach Al Amal (PH)

Hospital in central Khartoum.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I have to be strong enough to speak to you, you're the one that's going to tell the world what's

happening to us. The evacuation was chaos. We were running as soldiers were shouting run and then someone else would yell stop it's not safe. But what

choice did we have?

ELBAGIR: Three separate doctors there described to us coming under intense bombardment. The country's Central Committee of Doctors tell CNN that with

no doctors to tend them, the dead and injured are left to rot in their beds.

And the Sudan Doctors Trade Union called the targeting of hospitals and the housing of military personnel there a clear breach of international

humanitarian law, a charge both sides denied.

Both military leaders now fighting for control, were key allies in subverting the country's nascent democracy after the popular uprising in

2019, which deposed Sudan's longtime dictator, Omar al-Bashir, who now languishes in prison.

The memories of those protests and the symbolic photo that became its emblem are slowly fading, as has the promised transition from military to

democratic civilian rule.

But in an interview with CNN from inside Army HQ, the leader of Sudan's military tells me that the RSF militia is staging an attempted coup.

ABDEL FATTAH AL-BURHAN, SUDAN'S MILITARY LEADER (through translator): Yesterday and today a humanitarian ceasefire proposal was put forward and

agreed upon. Sadly, he did not abide by it.

You can hear right now the attempts to storm the army headquarters and indiscriminate mortar attacks. He's using the humanitarian pause to

continue the fight.

ELBAGIR: I asked him why the Sudanese people should trust him, given his previous partnership with Commander Dagalo.

AL-BURHAN (through translator): The Sudanese Army is the people's army. It is not owned by specific people or specific organizations.

ELBAGIR: General Burhan also committed to a return to civilian rule.

The leader of the Rapid Support Forces also told CNN this weekend that he wanted to ensure democratic rule.

GENERAL MOHAMED HAMDAN DAGALO, LEADER OF PARAMILITARY RAPID SUPPORT FORCES (through translator): I don't want to be the leader of the army. There's a

framework agreement between all the Sudanese stakeholders that should be adhered to. I don't want to lead anything.

ELBAGIR: Neither general could tell us when the people of Sudan could expect this deadly fight to end while many languish without water, food,

electricity and no way to bury their dead.

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ELBAGIR: And you could hear the fear in that doctor's voice, Christina. It really represents the fear so many Sudanese are feeling at the moment. And

this cease-fire, if it comes and if it holds, it can't come soon enough.

MACFARLANE: Absolutely. And the seeming chaos on the ground there as this unfolds, Nima Elbagir, we appreciate your reporting on this. Thank you.

And in the next hour, I'll be speaking live to the U.N. undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs, Martin Griffiths, who will be telling me

how Sudan's fighting is making the country's already fragile situation worse.

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MACFARLANE: All right, let's connect you now to Russia, where state media has shown Vladimir Putin making a rare visit to parts of Ukraine occupied

by Moscow. A video released by the Kremlin appears to show the Russian president meeting military commanders in the Kherson region.

The Kremlin says the visit happened on Monday. He is also reported to have visited Luhansk. It comes at a critical time in the Ukraine war as troops

from both sides grapple with exhaustion and depleted ammunition.

Well, the U.S. ambassador to Russia is calling for the immediate release of "The Wall Street Journal" reporter, who has been denied an appeal in Moscow

against the terms of his detention.

Evan Gershkovich, who is a U.S. citizen, was in court as the decision was made. You can see him standing here, arms crossed, inside a glass cage. He

was arrested in Russia last month. Clare Sebastian is following the story.

I guess this was the first glimpse we've really had of Evan Gershkovich in many weeks.

How did he appear to you when you stepped inside the courthouse?

And what are going to be the next steps here in this espionage charge that's been leveled against him?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christina, he looked pretty calm standing in that glass cage --

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SEBASTIAN: -- that we see so often in these Moscow courtrooms. He even, at some, at one point seemed to smile. But certainly according to our

producer, who was in the room, he did seem at times nervous, pacing up and down, not sitting still in that cage.

In terms of the next steps, his lawyers say they will continue to fight. They expect the next hearing to be at the end of May, when the current

stage of his pretrial detention expires.

We did hear a bit more about his life in prison, where he is said to be keeping his spirits up as best he can. Take a listen to what his lawyer had

to say about that.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he read a lot of books and then maybe he here told us that he maybe here will write some good novel --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- about himself. It's a normal tradition -- condition. It's -- he, I think it's not very nice place in general but

condition, oh, OK. OK. It's normal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, he doesn't complain anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: So he's staying strong. The words of the U.S. ambassador to Russia, who got her first access to Evan Gershkovich on Monday, 19 days

after he was arrested, the U.S. continuing to protest his detention.

He is, of course, classified as wrongly detained. But pretrial detentions can be long in Russia. Both Paul Whelan, who remains in a Russian prison,

and Trevor Reed were in pretrial detention for more than a year, Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yes. Potentially still a long road ahead but good at least to see him in reasonably good spirits in the courtroom today. Clare Sebastian,

thanks very much for that update.

Now I want to take you back to the unrest in Sudan. Paramilitary forces have been holding a number of Egyptian soldiers since the fighting broke

out. It's unclear how that could impact Egypt's offer to serve as mediator between the two warring sites. Now we should note that the Sudanese

military chief has close ties with Egypt.

I want to discuss all of this now with Egypt's foreign minister, Sameh Shoukry, who joins me in this exclusive interview, live from Cairo.

Foreign Minister, thank you so much for your time today. I would like to get straight to the issue of this ceasefire that we are expecting to start

in around about two hours from now.

We know that Egypt called on this ceasefire to happen and that leaders on both sides have apparently agreed to a temporary (ph) ceasefire.

Do you expect that ceasefire to hold?

And what role is Egypt having in mediating this situation right now?

SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, thank you very much. Egypt has been in direct communications with both parties, encouraging for

restraint, for cessation of military activity and the return to dialogue.

We have been in contact constantly around the hour, advocating for a ceasefire. And we hope that this agreement where both sides will have 24

hour cessation of hostilities will hold and will open further doors of communication that can lead to a renewed peaceful dialogue to resolve the

situation.

MACFARLANE: You say that you have been in constant communication with both sides in negotiating and mediating this. But we know that your president,

el Sisi, strongly support Sudan's army.

So what position does that put you into negotiate?

Because presumably, the RSF may be skeptical of your involvement.

SHOUKRY: Our relations with Sudan have been a traditional and historic relationship with all of the various political entities in Sudan. At the

same time, I think the president was very clear yesterday when he made the statement about the nature of this conflict, which is an internal one.

Thereby we maintain impartiality and total commitment to the best conditions for the Sudanese people. And certainly the escalating violence

and the impact, both on military and civilian casualties, is something of great concern to us.

Again, it is the best interests of Sudan and its population that drives us. And we continue to do so with the best of our abilities.

MACFARLANE: So you can confirm that you are having open conversations with the RSF and that they are receptive to that communication from Egypt?

SHOUKRY: We are communicating with all the -- who have influence in this issue, whether it is the Sudanese army or the rapid deployment forces. And

we hope that they will take heed with our appeals for calm, for restraint and for a cessation of hostilities.

[10:15:00]

MACFARLANE: We know that the civilian population, while all of this plays out, are essentially being taken hostage to this power struggle.

What is your assessment of the situation on the ground right now?

Does either side appear to have the upper hand at this point?

SHOUKRY: Well, that is an issue for the military to evaluate. We are monitoring, to the best of our abilities, within the degree of fluidity and

conflicting reports.

But again what we highlighted the importance of a ceasefire and maintaining the best interests of the Sudanese people, avoiding further casualties and

opening dialogue for a peaceful settlement of this dispute and, again, indicating its internal nature and the need for all foreign interests and

influence to restrain itself and not to further aggreviate (sic) the situation.

MACFARLANE: Are you aware that there are any international actors supporting or backing the RSF?

SHOUKRY: I believe that we have to be cautious. And I think all of the international community and the statements that have been issued by various

-- by the secretary general and others have all indicated the importance that the international community takes steps to restraint and not to

escalate the situation.

And certainly its internal nature should lead us to deal with the Sudanese components and to refrain from any active involvement from external forces

or interests.

MACFARLANE: You talk about using dialogue as a means to resolving this evolving crisis.

But if that fails to bring an end to the fighting, at what point will Egypt be moved to get involved militarily in this situation?

SHOUKRY: I think we have to concentrate at this stage and trying to encourage for a peaceful dialogue for an end to the conflict. And we must

concentrate our efforts. And we do so in conjuncture and through our communications with the various neighboring countries and also those who

have influence in the United States.

Our European friends, the European Union, all those who can play an active role in advising, in communicating the importance of reaching a peaceful

solution to this crisis.

MACFARLANE: And finally, Foreign Minister, we were talking about how one of your battalions (ph), the Egyptian battalions (ph) have been taken

hostage by the RSF forces.

Can you give us an update on how many soldiers are currently in RSF custody, the condition that they're in and when they will be released?

SHOUKRY: We will refrain from particulars. But I can tell you that we are in communications related to the safety of those personnel. Egypt has many

active participants in the various capacity building and in Sudanese life, whether it's an educational presence or a presence in the irrigation and

agricultural field.

And we are keeping a close watch on the best -- on the current situation and how it is affecting all Egyptian citizens on Sudanese territories.

MACFARLANE: Foreign Minister, we really appreciate your time and it would be great obviously to talk to you as this situation evolves. But for now,

thank you for giving us your thoughts and your insights on how Egypt are currently playing into this and mediating the situation.

SHOUKRY: Thank you very much.

MACFARLANE: Thank you.

All right, just ahead, the high stakes legal showdown between Dominion Voting Systems and FOX News kicks off. We will take you live to the

courthouse next.

Plus the U.S. accusing China of using a secret police station to spy on dissidents on American soil. How Beijing is responding to the claims.

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MACFARLANE: Jury selection is now underway in the defamation trial against FOX News. It's a high stakes showdown between Dominion Voting Systems and

one of the world's biggest media companies.

After an unexpected one day delay, opening statements could happen in the coming hours in a Delaware courtroom. Dominion says it was defamed when FOX

claims it had rigged the 2020 U.S. presidential election. FOX denies any wrongdoing. Well, CNN's Danny Freeman joins us live from Wilmington,

Delaware.

So I suppose there's been quite a lot of action outside the court in the last couple of hours. Tell us what we are potentially expecting from these

opening statements and the trial in general and whether or not we could still see a last minute settlement.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's start with where we are right now. So court began at 9 o'clock this morning and jury selection, as

you said, officially began around that time.

And actually we just got news in that a jury has been picked at this point; 12 jurors from our folks who are reporting inside the courtroom right now.

They're still working on picking the 12 alternates at this point. So that's kind of where we are in the process right now.

Meanwhile then, once jury selection is over, that could take anywhere between another half hour to an hour or so. Then we're expecting opening

statements to begin today.

And we're getting a bit of a preview of what both Dominion and FOX's arguments will be from some statements that we received. First. I'll read

one from Dominion. It's very short.

They basically said this morning, "In the coming weeks, we will prove FOX spread lies, causing enormous damage to Dominion and we look forward to

trial."

Meanwhile in a dueling statement earlier this week, FOX wrote, quote, "Dominion's lawsuit is a political crusade in search of a financial

windfall but the real cost would be the cherished First Amendment's rights."

I should say when FOX's referring to that financial windfall Dominion is hoping to claim $1.6 billion in damages in this particular case. But again,

we're in the middle of jury selection. And that jury will be responsible ultimately not only for determining if FOX didn't defame Dominion, I should

say, with actual malice, with knowing that the information they were saying was false.

But also they will be in charge of determining if those damages are appropriate -- back to you.

MACFARLANE: All right, Danny, outside the courtroom there, we will wait to see if a wait and watch for those opening statements. As you say, Danny,

appreciate it for now.

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MACFARLANE (voice-over): Now let's get you up to speed on some other stories that are on our radar right now.

A new milestone for Apple as it opens its first retail store in India. It's a big coup for the tech giant, allowing it to capitalize on the second

largest smartphone market in the world. CEO Tim Cook was there to open the doors. Apple is set to open a second store in New Delhi on Thursday.

China's economy appears to be bouncing back after the government dropped its zero COVID policy. China's national bureau of statistics says GDP grew

by 4.5 percent for the first quarter, compared with a year ago, stronger than analysts were expecting.

China's top diplomat is offering to broker peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, that, according to state media, Xinhua. Foreign minister

Qin Gang spoke yesterday with his Israeli counterpart, who asked Qin to help convince Iran to stop its nuclear program.

Beijing recently brokered a deal to restore ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

The FBI has arrested two U.S. citizens for allegedly setting up a secret police station in New York on behalf of the Chinese government.

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MACFARLANE: Authorities say the men ran the illegal operation out of this building in Chinatown, which they used as a home base to track down and

intimidate Chinese dissidents in the U.S. Their arrests are among a sweeping set of charges against more than 40 people that U.S. prosecutors

say are part of a vast spy operation.

Beijing, for its part, is dismissing the reports as, quote, "political manipulation."

Well, CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid's following the latest for us from Washington.

Paula, good to see you. I guess the concern now is just how vast was this operation and how many more Chinese posts like this there could be within

the U.S.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Great questions. And the Justice Department says these cases really illustrate the extent of

China's espionage efforts here in the U.S.

And that first case you mentioned, they charged two people, both U.S. citizens, with operating a secret police station here in the U.S. in

Chinatown in New York, where they allege these men tried to identify, track and then harass dissidents.

Now in a separate case, they charged dozens of officials connected to China's national security operations with using social media to, again,

identify, track and harass dissidents, including creating social media profiles that made them appear to be Americans.

Weighing in on everything from foreign policy to George Floyd but, in some cases, issuing death threats that, in some cases, prevented people from

attending demonstrations, anti demo -- pro democracy demonstrations.

There's another case, too, where CNN has learned that an executive at Zoom and nine other people were charged with trying to interfere with calls by

dissidents, including one where they were discussing memorializing the Tiananmen Square massacre.

That Zoom executive was previously charged and now nine other people have also been added to the list of those who conspired.

Now what's interesting here is the U.S. says look, we expect there might be some operations in the U.S. But this goes far beyond the bounds of nation

state conduct.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and it really has echoes of the spy balloon saga, you know, not so long ago. I mean, we were talking about these Chinese agents.

They were reportedly New York residents.

I mean, if these allegations are true, what does it say about China's reach and their potential to go after dissidents abroad?

REID: Well, they've clearly been engaging in a decades-long espionage plan and program to embed themselves here in the United States and go after

people who speak ill of the People's Republic of China, because, again, with some of these people have been charged, not only were they attacking

dissidents but they were also trying to promote the PRC online.

So this is part of a strategic campaign to improve the image of that nation and go after any of its adversaries.

But the Justice Department says, look, people who live here, particularly U.S. citizens, they should be able to enjoy the freedoms that they are

entitled to in this country without fear of harassment and death threats.

MACFARLANE: Absolutely. Paula Reid there with the update. Thanks very much, Paula.

All right, still to come, how Holocaust survivors and their families are marking Holocaust Remembrance Day.

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MACFARLANE (voice-over): Welcome back. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London and you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Here are your latest headlines this

hour.

It's unclear if the latest temporary ceasefire for Sudan will happen. Rival generals both voiced approval for the 24-hour truce, which is scheduled to

start in around 90 minutes from now. Later, the Sudanese military Facebook page discounted talks of a ceasefire and said it will crush the

paramilitary force.

Vladimir Putin appears to have made a rare visit to occupied Ukraine near the front lines. Video released by the Kremlin claims to show the Russian

president meeting with military commanders in the Kherson region. It is a second public visit to an occupied region since the invasion last year.

The defamation trial against FOX News is underway in a Delaware courtroom. The first item on the agenda, jury selection; after that, we're expecting

opening statements. Dominion says it was defamed when FOX hosts claimed it had rigged the 2020 presidential election against Donald Trump.

MACFARLANE: Now Poland is observing Holocaust remembrance day by singing "The Sounds of Silence."

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MACFARLANE (voice-over): The country is honoring the memory of the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis during World War II. The day is also

marked by the March of the Living.

Holocaust survivors and their families walked about three kilometers to the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp site, the largest Nazi concentration camp,

where more than 1 million people were murdered.

The United States is honoring those lost in the Holocaust, as well as the remaining survivors. CNN's Dana Bash spoke with one survivor ahead of the

day of remembrance, who is sharing her story so future generations never forget.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EDITH GROSS, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: I fulfilled my sister's wish, because she always said, you must survive, because otherwise, we never lived.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Edith Gross is a survivor. She beat unimaginable odds, endured the horrors of the

Holocaust and lived to tell her story.

GROSS: In 1944, we heard that the Nazis are coming.

BASH (voice-over): Edith was 15 years old, living in occupied Czechoslovakia with her older sister and brothers.

GROSS: In the first week, we had to wear a yellow star. If you didn't put it on and you were caught, they killed you right away.

BASH (voice-over): As the Nazi grip on the country tightened, Jews were forced into ghettos and not allowed to run businesses. Then the transports

to concentration camps began.

GROSS: They told us, pack everything you can -- you can carry. And you have to leave everything behind. We went for days. It seemed like for

years. It was a nightmare, terrible. But finally we arrived in Birkenau- Auschwitz.

BASH (voice-over): Many did not even survive the journey to the camps.

GROSS: When we arrived, we did see a smoking crematorium and the smell was terrible. I remember lining up and walking from the train into Auschwitz.

And there sat Mengele, with a little stick in his hand, first for women and then for men.

And he directed the people. This way went to work and this way went to -- went to the crematorium.

I ran over to my brother and I gave him a big hug. And I could see his eyes. He was so frightened.

BASH (voice-over): Edith managed to follow her sister to the line. She never saw her brother again.

After Auschwitz, Edith and her sister were moved to a forced labor camp.

GROSS: It was very, very hard labor and there was a quota. And my sister always had back pain. So I was very fast. I always made sure that I made

the quota.

[10:35:00]

BASH (voice-over): As the Russians began to close in on their location, the Nazis moved them again, this time to Stutthof concentration camp.

GROSS: Stutthof was a very, very rough place, waking us up during the night. And watching somebody being hung.

BASH (voice-over): Edith's sister became very ill. Her condition deteriorated rapidly.

GROSS: I remember she was on the other side of the electric wire and I was yelling, "Dwartijja," my sister's name. I wanted a last glance, because I

knew we were never going to see each other again. And that was one of my saddest days, of course.

BASH (voice-over): The Nazis, becoming desperate amidst Russian advances, started forcing the Jews on so-called death marches.

GROSS: We didn't have any warm clothes, of course and no food. No nothing. And we started to march. People would just bend down. They were shot.

BASH (voice-over): They marched from Stutthof to Danzig, finally reaching Konigsberg, now known as Kaliningrad in Russia, where they were liberated

by Russian troops.

GROSS: Russia tanks arrived and they said to us, You are liberated.

BASH (voice-over): Edith slowly made her way back to Czechoslovakia but there was nothing left for her in her hometown. She eventually ended up in

America, where she enrolled in school and learned English.

Edith now has seven grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren.

Today, as more and more Holocaust survivors pass away, Edith has made it her mission to continue to tell her story. She says even if she changes one

mind, she's accomplished something.

GROSS: Stop hate and take people the way they are. That's my aim, too, because I have never, never thought that in my life I would see

antisemitismagain. And I'm shocked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There we go.

BASH (voice-over): Through the Chabad organization in the town of Islip, Long Island a community center was dedicated in Edith's honor. She recently

took a trip to Israel, where she visited the Western Wall and Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial.

Though it has been 80 years since that horrible time, all that she has lost will always remain.

GROSS: When I hear Holocaust survivors saying, I'll forgive and forget. No, there is no such a thing. I will never forget, forgive and definitely

not forget.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: So important to hear survivor stories like Edith's. And all thanks to Dana Bash for bringing us that story.

We're going to take a short break. Stay with us. We'll be back in a moment.

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MACFARLANE: Welcome back.

Now they say a picture tells 1,000 words. But this one tells the story of just two letters, A and I.

You're looking at the image that won the Sony World Photography Award. The only problem is it was made using artificial intelligence. The artist

behind it says he won't accept the prize money and entered the photo as an experiment to spark debate.

And ever wonder what happens when galaxies collide?

Here's an answer. The starburst was triggered here by two galaxies crashing into each other 250 million light years away. It is the latest image from

NASA's Webb telescope for the collision generated an infrared glow that contains the light of more than 1 trillion suns. By comparison, the Milky

Way Galaxy, our home, has a luminosity that's about the equivalent of 10 billion suns. Goodness me.

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