Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
BRICS Expansion is a Major Agenda Item in Johannesburg; Member Nations look to Boost Global Influence; Video Show Palestinian Man Shot from Behind; Microsoft Submits New Plan to UK Watchdog; Ukraine: Zaporizhzhia Struck 96 Times in 24 Hours; Republican Candidates Prepare for First Debate without Trump. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired August 22, 2023 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI HOST: This hour the leaders of China, India, Brazil and South Africa meet in Johannesburg with the Russian President,
conspicuous by his absence from the "BRICS" Summit. We'll be taking a deep dive into the summit significance coming up.
First up though, we start with the urgent rescue mission in Pakistan to bring four people trapped in a chairlift to safety. Pakistan Special
Services Group have rescued four children so far two kids and two adults remain dangling in this chairlift.
They have been trapped for hours after a cable snapped 274 meters in the air. The children ages 10 to 15 on their way to school. Sophia Saifi joins
us now from Islamabad. Are we any closer at this point to rescuing those who are still trapped Sophia?
SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER: Well Becky, while it's been some great news that those four kids have been rescued, there's some -- there's a situation
that because it's now nightfall, and that very remote part of Northwestern Pakistan.
The helicopter rescue operation has had to be paused, because there's just too much darkness there for that to continue. So there are efforts being
made by the commandos on the ground as well as by locals to kind of reach that cable car that is suspended about 900 feet above ground.
And this has had the entire country fixated for more than 10 hours. These kids were on their way to school at about 8.30 this morning, local time.
They were commuting between two valleys their school was on one side their village was on and other when this happened.
One cable snapped they were already issues regarding the rescue situation because of the fact that the -- blades were causing winds which are causing
that one cable that was holding up that cable car aloft to move very frequently.
So again, those children were nauseated. They dropped in the commandos dropped in anti-nausea meds we were told by one of the children speaking to
local media from his phone that two of the children had vomited. And other two were in and out of consciousness.
You have to realize this is a congested cage like contraption which is suspended midair and constantly moving by the winds. So it's now completely
nightfall in that area. It's still very ominous, but there is a lot of hope, in that -- in this country that this rescue operation will be
ANDERSON: And Sophia, we are all praying for those who are still trapped. What have local authorities said about the incident?
SAIFI: What we do know from people on the ground is that there is a lot of support for the commandos that are there on the ground. There are a lot of
people who are gathered there. We're being told that again, while the rescue operation by helicopter has stopped.
They're trying to effort rocks. There's a lot of local knowledge there, because this is a very difficult terrain and the locals know it best. So
they are depending on local knowledge to ensure that they rescue them in the best way possible, Becky.
ANDERSON: Sophia, thank you. Right now leaders of the "BRICS" Brazil, India, China and South Africa are in Johannesburg for a summit that could
have a seismic impact well beyond that city in the Global South. Notably absent Russian President Vladimir Putin. He is not there because the host
country will be obliged to arrest him for alleged war crimes.
Well, there's still a lot at stake especially for the Chinese President Xi Jinping who is facing economic headwinds, himself on the domestic front
that worry world's investors. But China and by extension, the "BRICS" still a global heavyweight to say the least. This group now surpasses the G7 in
terms of global population and combined GDP.
The next few days could determine the future of this block and how it may try to realign what it seizes up Western dominated global system. So
tonight we ask is "BRICS" ready to challenge the world order? Well, David McKenzie back with us this hour from Johannesburg.
And we are also joined by Fred Pleitgen focusing on Vladimir Putin's decision to attend the summit virtually. Let's start with you David. This
is a loose grouping of nations that have a lot of competing interests. What are they discussing at the summit? And crucially, what do they hope to
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky that is a big question. Often these summits are big on rhetoric and low on results.
But we are very closely watching whether this "BRICS" Summit will look to expand "BRICS", beyond its core members, Brazil, Russia, India, China and
You know, "BRICS" itself kind of faded from the scene, as we've been speaking about somewhat in years past, it seems to be rolling back in part,
I think that is because of the war in Ukraine. And many of these countries have, shall I say, a more nuanced view of who they support and how they
South Africa, famously being non-aligned, as they put it, when it comes to Russia, and Ukraine, and you've got leaders about to speak at a business
forum, I spoke to one analyst from the Indian subcontinent who spoke about the importance of this leadership meeting and this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRANJAL SHARMA, ECONOMIC ANALYST AND AUTHOR: You see the biggest growth companies by GDP; they're not in the West they are in Asia and Africa. Now,
the question is, do they have a say, adequate, safe?
Now, the United Nations, World Bank, IMF are dominated by the structures created after the war. But today, some of that is not relevant. The
economic center of gravity is shifting away from Europe and U.S. to that extent.
And the fact that the consuming populations are here, you know, as well that the growth of consumption in the West is plateauing. If this is where
the growth is going to be, then this region, it is variously described as I say; growth economies or global south needs to reinvent itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: And that will mean potentially expanding the capacity for them to lend money to each other and also to move away on some symbolic front, at
least from the U.S. dollar as an international trade currency. That's a more long term aim, I think of some of these countries.
Of course, Vladimir Putin is not going to be present. And certainly that will, be something that will be closely watched as other Presidents and
Prime Ministers take the stage and Putin will have to take it via Zoom or video call, Becky.
ANDERSON: Absolutely. Fred let me bring you in, Vladimir Putin conspicuous by its absence, how much influence does he still wield in this circle? And
what is his message to them as they -- the others gather in Johannesburg today?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think he still has a lot of influence at that summit, and certainly among the BRICS
nations, and also in that effort to expand BRICS that David was talking about as well.
I think also equally, that the speech that Vladimir Putin is going to give there via video link is also very important to him as well. And I think
that Vladimir Putin understands why he's unable to attend that summit. Everybody there also understands why he's unable to attend that summit.
And it could actually be something where Vladimir Putin might say, look, the reason why he's not able to be there is because a Western dominated
institution, as the Russians think it is the International Criminal Court has that warrant out for his arrest.
So certainly something that actually might play into what Vladimir Putin wants to say. So for Putin, it's extremely important. I think one of the
messages that he is going to put out there is going to be look; Russia is a country that's heavily sanctioned.
The West tried to sanction Russia into submission, but the West has failed because of Russia's trade ties to other "BRICS" nations, but in generally
also to other nations around the world as well. One of the things that Putin spokesman told me a while back.
He said he believes that Russia is not a country that can be isolated because of its size, but also because of its natural resources as well. And
that's also one of the reasons why it seems that Vladimir Putin still has quite a lot of influence in that forum as well.
And the other thing is definitely what David pointed out as well. Vladimir Putin is working on nothing less than a new world order. He believes that's
something that he keeps talking about, he keeps saying that there's going to be a multipolar world and that it's increasingly forming.
And this is certainly an important forum for him to make that case as well. And of course, one of the things that we know the Russians have been in
favor of Becky has been the expansion of "BRICS", also for instance, with Saudi Arabia and just a couple of days ago.
The Russians also saying they would like Iran to join that block as well whether or not that's something in the cards we know that there are some
other "BRICS" nations that have serious inhibitions about expansion of the forum.
But certainly Vladimir Putin, one of his goals would be to make "BRICS" increasingly a counterbalance to institutions that the Russians believe are
dominated by the West likes, for instance of the G7, which of course, used to have Russia in it, used to be the G8, but then also the G20 as well,
ANDERSON: Yes, this is fascinating, isn't it? Thank you to both of you. Xi Jinping commanded the red carpet when he touched down in South Africa in
Vladimir Putin's absence; China's strong man has little competition as the single most powerful world leader at this summit.
But that does not mean he's immune from domestic challenges that will influence how he behaves on the world stage. To name three there's a
spiraling property crisis that has investors worried youth unemployment so high.
The government has stopped reporting numbers for now at least, and local government debt risk to the tune of trillions of dollars with these three
economic factors weighing on Mr. Xi back home, he is likely to recalibrate China's foreign investment. Steven Jiang explains.
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: The factors this is only Xi Jinping's second international trip after the pandemic, the first being
back in March, when he went to Moscow to see his "Dear friend, Putin".
So that kind of dynamic and priority really underscores that despite their vastly different economic and political models that "BRICS" nations, their
leaders are really bonded over by their shared desire and some of the grievances against the U.S. Latin world order.
That's why they'll be discussing potentially expanding this grouping, and reducing their reliance on the U.S. dollar, all of that beneficial to China
at a time when tension remains high between Beijing and Washington with a lot of chatter about decoupling.
Also beneficial to Xi Jinping himself as he cements his leadership role within this "BRICS" grouping, but let's not forget that Xi arrived in South
Africa at a time when the Chinese economy is facing the strongest headwinds in decades.
He's facing a myriad of problems here at home. That's why he's perhaps seeking new markets for Chinese exports in the developing world. But that
also means he's facing more constraints even compared to just a few years ago when it comes to kind of projects China may be able to invest finance
across the so called Global South.
And the experts say that's why China is already starting to adopt a so called low cost high impact strategy in dealing with emerging nations and
markets by focusing more on for example, bringing African military officers to China for training and also expanding its soft power across the
developing world by investing more on cultural projects and through propaganda.
CCTV the state media outlet is debuting the second season of a show called classics -- by Xi Jinping across Africa. And undoubtedly, officials here
hope it will be a hit on that continent. Steven Jiang, CNN, Beijing.
ANDERSON: Right, there's a lot to unpack here, isn't there? Gustavo De Carvalho is a Senior Researcher at the South African Institute of
International Affairs and an expert on what is the complicated geopolitics surrounding the "BRICS" nations? He joins me now via Skype from
Thanks for joining us. Look, there's some stuff of substance here. And then frankly, let's be clear, there is some wishful thinking or rhetoric. And I
want to really see if we can just pick apart specifically what's going on?
This was -- this is a loose grouping of countries with a potential to expand, they lost their luster somewhat and have roared back in what is a
very fashionable narrative on the global south of late. What do you believe their priorities will be, as they gather, mostly in person, Russia
virtually at this summit?
GUSTAVO DE CARVALHO, SENIOR RESEARCHER, SOUTH AFRICAN INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Becky. And I think it's
probably one of the most symbolic "BRICS" Summit that we've had, since the creation of the group in 2009. As you mentioned, is a fairly loose group,
there is no treaty that confer that create "BRICS".
And to a large degree, what we have been seen in a very slow pace is a five countries that basically don't agree on everything and disagree on a lot of
things. And too many times basically, what they try to do is to find a minimum common denominator.
And particularly what we have seen are concerns and complaints about how the global order is actually unfair to many of the countries in the global
south, and particularly focusing on a lot of the international financial institutions like the World Bank, and the IMF.
I think mentioning that the countries don't necessarily have a lot in common. It's an important aspect because it does reduce and constrain a lot
of what "BRICS" can actually do? And certainly for this week there's two big discussions happening both very controversial outside and within
And namely the expansion over 30 countries intending and applying to join "BRICS", but also a lot of the discussions around using alternative
currencies for trade, and particularly the use of local currencies and potentially using the -- .
ANDERSON: And what's interesting is these two priorities, again, are being contested amongst those who aren't members now, never mind those who may
join. So let's just have a look at the first one, the extension of this grouping, because they are relevant.
And we should discuss why they are relevant and could be more so with expansion? India, for example, we talked about where China is that
economically and the headwinds that Xi Jinping faces. India is a very different story at present of course because it's on an absolute clip of
They are skeptical because new members could lend more influence to China and the isolated Russia. On the other hand, they may want a larger circle
of likeminded countries. So what chance and expansion? And what are the consequences should we see more countries join this block?
DE CARVALHO: I think it is a very important question. I think at this stage, we have two groups within BRICS, we have Russia and China and to a
certain extent, South Africa there is more inclined of being keen for new countries to join each of them for different reasons.
South Africa really would like to see other African countries, part of it. Russians, partners and France, after their invasion of Ukraine, and China,
to a large degree has always been the country that always wanted more countries to join and to increase its own influence.
India is very concerned about the Chinese influence within "BRICS", and hence has been much more cautious with their position around what do they
expect to see in Brazil, especially with a lot of the changes in the political environment in Argentina.
Now are actually stating for the past few days, that they actually have also some concerns and feel that this exclusive group that they're part of
maybe diluted? So -- I think what we should expect to see here in Johannesburg at the end of this summit is not necessarily a major
announcement of dozens of countries that will be joining "BRICS".
The most important aspects that we should be expecting to see in the coming days are the criteria. What types of countries? What type of developing
economies are we expecting to see, but particularly what will be the implications for the decision making and for the identity of the group that
is already quite informal?
ANDERSON: This group already represents almost a third or just over a third of global GDP. They want to extend that reach. How possible or realistic do
you believe it is this group could move themselves and the world away from the dollar as a reserve currency?
DE CARVALHO: I think there is a lot of misunderstanding when we talk about the concept of de-dollarization. When we see what a lot of the countries
are doing is particularly identifying very specific circumstances, spaces in which they can trade with one another with either their local
We already see for instance, India announcing that would buy 1 million barrels from the UAE in rupees. We've seen Brazil and Argentina having
those discussions. So it's a discussion that is part of "BRICS" but it's not entirely concentrated within this group.
I think we're not expecting "BRICS" to suddenly bring the currency that will replace our own national currencies, where is the Rand or -- or the
Renminbi and other currencies within "BRICS"? There are a number of alternatives and options being discussed.
But they all of them are very much in early stages. And I think, at this stage, we shouldn't expect any major announcements around that. But it's
certainly something that member states within "BRICS" are still very interested and will continue having this discussion in the near future.
ANDERSON: Carvalho, our question tonight, is or "BRICS" ready to challenge the world order, your response?
DE CARVALHO: My answer to that is that there is no world order there is already changing. So to a large degree, what we have seen the demands from
"BRICS" countries in all of them are quite different.
But the one thing that unifies them is the fact that they feel that they have -- they're much larger countries, they're much more influential
countries, but their voice is not well represented in many institutions globally. And that is about the World Bank, and that's about the IMF.
So to a certain degree, I'm still quite skeptical with the narrative that "BRICS" is trying to challenge the global order. I think is much more of a
response of countries that effectively have a much larger power capability than what they had a couple of decades ago. And then more and more will
demand to have a voice in many of those discussions.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. It's, great having you on sir, your insight and analysis, extremely important. The BRICS meeting is underway in
Johannesburg thank you. Well, a shocking incident caught on camera in the occupied West Bank. And another man who appears to be walking away from
Israeli forces shot in the back. The latest is next in a live report.
ANDERSON: Disturbing video from the occupied West Bank showing what a witness says is an unarmed man shot from behind by Israeli forces. I want
to warn you that this video is somewhat hard to watch. The man in the light colored shirt near the top of your screen is walking towards a group of
people trying to lift someone onto a stretcher.
That is when a shot rings out and he falls forward. We've stopped the video right before that happens. People nearby rushed to him and helped him to
get in an ambulance. CNN's Hadas Gold is live in Jerusalem with more. What more do we know about this incident Hadas?
HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: So Becky, this took place in the village of Beita. Beita is in the occupied West Bank. And it's not far from
that flashpoint town of Huwara, which we've spoken so much about in this past year. And Huwara is where that Israeli father and son were killed in a
shooting attack on Saturday.
That has prompted a massive manhunt by Israeli forces for the shooter behind that attack who still remains at large. And Israeli security forces
saying that they entered Beita yesterday on Monday in order to apprehend what they call a wanted suspect when they say clashes broke out.
Now Israeli police saying that violent clashes broke out and they started responding with live fire. But then what we see in this video is at first
what appears to be a group of men trying to load another man onto a stretcher to get him out of the air. And then we see that men who are in
his early 30s we understand are starting to jog towards them.
And according to when I went as he was jogging away from Israeli forces were standing up on that hill, that's when then he is shot appearing to be
from behind and he falls forward. The Palestinian Ministry of Health is saying that he is still in critical condition after being shot in the head.
Now as I noted Israeli border police saying that they were responding at that moment to what they called a violent riot that they said endanger the
lives of their soldiers. And they said that they did respond to what they called riots with live ammunition they did say that hits were identified.
But they added that the incident is under review, but it is alarming video to see how this man is walking towards different group of people.
We can't see that he's holding anything in his hands from this video and an eyewitness saying that he was not involved in the clashes and was unarmed
at the time of him being shot.
ANDERSON: We saw other incidence of violence this week in the occupied Palestinian territories. Just fill us in on what we know about those, if
GOLD: Yes, it's definitely been a rise in violence in a region that's already been on edge just rising tensions. Three Israelis have actually
been shot and killed just since Saturday across the occupied West Bank. So we have that father and son who actually have CCTV video that's been widely
shown by Israeli media showing the moment that they were shot.
They were at a carwash in Huwara Guinea running some errands, getting their carwash when they were approached at point blank range by a shooter who
shot and killed his father and son, who were there together. And then Monday we had, yesterday we had an Israeli woman shot killed and another
man who was with her in the car injured while they were driving south of Hebron, a child who was actually in the car with them was uninjured.
Now, overnight, the Israeli authorities saying that they went on arrest rates and they arrested two suspects in Hebron that they called responsible
for shooting that woman. And during further clashes that erupted in other Palestinian villages. Palestinian Islamic Jihad, saying one of their
fighters, an 18-year-old was killed in those ensuing clashes.
Now what's interesting Becky is that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Defense Minister Yoav Gallant have placed the blame on
these recent rise events squarely on rand -- actually saying that this is being directed and financed by rand and its proxies?
And in a statement to the media saying that they are working what he said around the clock to catch what he called murderers and saying that all
options are on the table. But it's very interesting to hear him and the defense minister directly targeting a rant saying that they are the ones
responsible for this recent rise in violence, Becky.
ANDERSON: Hadas, thank you. Let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories that are on our radar right now. And Japanese Prime Minister Fumio
Kishida announced plans to begin releasing treated radioactive water from the Fukushima nuclear plant as early as Thursday.
International Atomic Energy Agency that said that this will have a "Negligible impact on the environment". Well, for the first time since the
start of the pandemic, North Korean athletes have traveled outside of their country. These images show North Korea's taekwondo team taking part in a
competition in Kazakhstan about 100 North Korean athletes are taking part.
Tokyo says North Korea told Japanese authorities it's planning to launch a satellite in the next few days. Pyongyang tried and failed to launch a
military reconnaissance satellite earlier this year. South Korea is now urging North Korea to drop the plan say it violates UN Security Council
Well, what would you do to close the deal worth $69 billion? Still ahead the lengths Microsoft is going through to make sure gamers in the UK can
play some of the top games. Plus Russia says its intercepted more drones around Moscow was one region in Ukraine is pummeled by nearly 100 strikes
in a day. We're live from Zaporizhzhia coming up.
ANDERSON: Becky Anderson, your headlines this hour. Night is setting in in northwestern Pakistan and an urgent rescue mission is now on pause. So far
four children have been rescued from what is a dangling chairlift. You can see it here four people, including two more children are still stranded.
In that chairlift the children were on their way to school when a cable snapped 274 meters in the air. Well, leaders of Brazil, Russia, India,
China and South Africa are meeting at the BRICS summit, four of them in person, one virtually. The nations are looking to expand their global
influence and potentially grow the alliance.
Russian President Vladimir Putin is attending virtually due to an international arrest warrant for alleged war crimes tied to the invasion of
Ukraine. Thailand's parliament has voted for real estate mogul Srettha Thavisin to become the country's next prime minister after three months of
Vote came the same day as the return of Thaksin Shinawatra, a former Prime Minister who was ousted in 2006 and is linked to the same party as the
Prime Minister. Well, since the beginning of Russia's war on Ukraine, Elon Musk's influence on the conflict has loomed large
According to a new in depth investigation by the New Yorker, Musk was on a phone call with Pentagon officials about his company's Satellite Internet
being used by Ukrainian troops on the battlefield. The SpaceX founder mentioned that he was also in contact with Russian President Vladimir
Putin. It's a claim Musk has previously denied.
Well the stories author Ronan Farrow also writes that the billionaire has increasing influence inside the U.S. government. And that Musk's sway with
Washington is widespread. And over last over the last two decades, the U.S. has become reliant upon him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONAN FARROW, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: This is something more and different. And you know I talked to a lot of historians to get a sense
of how new this is. The fact that we can only put crew into space that NASA has to go through Elon Musk and no one else.
The only alternative we have right now at this moment, probably for the next year, is sending people up via Russian launches. The fact that, if we
want to advance green energy policies around electric vehicles, we got to go through Elon and his charging stations because he's brought 60 percent
of the stations in the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
FARROW: Historians told me that is a new extreme and a newly political dimension to this kind of private power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Farrow goes on to say that the U.S. is struggling with how to respond to Elon Musk's, "Risk taking brinkmanship and Caprice". Well,
Microsoft has made a major concession to British competition regulators to try and save one of the biggest tech takeovers ever.
Its $69 billion acquisition of Call of Duty maker Activision Blizzard, it comes after the UK mark its watchdog blocked the deal putting it odds with
regulators in the U.S. and the EU. Under the restructure deal Microsoft will not be able to release Activision games exclusively on its own cloud
Instead, French gaming rival Ubisoft will have the streaming rights for the next 15 years. Anna Stewart joins us with more on this strategy. This is
slightly confusing. So just explain what concessions of Microsoft made to what is the UK regular which seem to benefit a French organization.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: It's slightly confusing. It's also a very long winded story given Microsoft announced they wanted to buy Activision in
January of last year. And it did actually face big regulatory hurdles in the U.S. which failed in court. It faced hurdles in the EU, it made some
And this is really the last remaining hurdle, the UK regulator, which is very worried about Microsoft itself having too much control over the cloud
gaming market. So this concession is an interesting one, essentially selling the streaming rights of Activision games to Ubisoft, so that
Microsoft can't exclusively use its own services with them.
And it's interesting, because it's not just Activision games that exists now like Call of Duty, but any games that they create in the next 15 years.
So actually, it is a sizable concession. It's definitely worth the CMA having another look; they've announced they will examine this one.
It will take them at least till October 18, to come up with a decision in what they call phase one. If they want to go further, they could announce
another phase two, which means Becky, we could be talking about this deal, which was announced well over a year ago, even maybe next year, so not a
quick one, but certainly interesting.
ANDERSON: In other news, as they say, tech news, at least arm the British chip designer has filed for a NASDAQ listing. Why and what's the
significance of that?
STEWART: This is interesting. This is actually the second listing for arm, which is a big chip architect maker. This is going to be a blockbuster IPO
if it happens on the NASDAQ. It's got a lot of coverage over here in the UK. This is one of the most important UK tech companies, which was bought
by a Japanese company Softbank in 2016, actually delisted from the London Stock Exchange.
It will rank for many that it's actually going to list in the U.S. Now I'm very interested to see what the valuation will be. We don't have the
details that IPO yet in terms of how many shares Softbank wants to sell and what sort of price range we're looking at. But according to Reuters, it
could value arm around 60 to $70 billion.
Now, that's really interesting, because this is actually plan B for Softbank. They wanted to sell it to the rival Nvidia for $40 billion
earlier this year, but failed due to regulatory hurdles, and actually bought for about half of the valuation you just saw on that screen.
So it would be a sizable upwards valuation there. What is perhaps going to hold some investors back from this is while ARM is a huge player when it
comes to smartphones and chips and smartphones, about 99 percent of all smartphones around the world have an ARM chip in them. Actually, that's a
declining market; people are keeping their smartphones much longer these days.
So how well will it do in AI? It already has a slight presence. It has some AI capabilities and some of its chips. But it's certainly nothing like the
player that is in video when it comes to that area. So it'll be interesting to see what investors think. And it's the first big IPO we've had for a
really long time in the interest rate environment. So it'll be certainly one to watch, Becky.
ANDERSON: Perfect, always good to have you on the show. Thank you. Nice to call on the frontlines in Ukraine not fighting the Russians themselves, but
the flame is caused by Russian attacks. Their work comes at a deep personal cost.
You're going to hear the story of one firefighter who's not seen his wife and child in a year. And still ahead, former U.S. President Donald Trump
has to turn himself in on Thursday. We'll have details on the deal his lawyers have made and how long he is expected to remain in a Georgia jail.
ANDERSON: One day and nearly 100 strikes that is a lot even by the standards of Russians brutal war on Ukraine. Local military officials say
Zaporizhzhia region has been hit 96 times by shells and missiles in just 124 hour period as Ukrainian forces trying to push forward with their
Well, meantime Russia says it again destroyed Ukrainian drones over the Moscow region targeted for the fifth night in a row. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh
is back with us live from Zaporizhzhia. These brutal Russian strikes, Nick, you're on the ground. Are they taking their toll?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Certainly in terms of the damage they do, but also clearly emotionally. Look, it's
important to remember when we talk about this war, we talk about the geopolitics, we talk about the frontline action, the changes in
battlefields. But rarely do we talk about the toll being taken on families, on generations of Ukrainians, on a country which will take decades to
recover from what's already happened.
And we spent some time got to know a fire man in one of the worst impacted cities in the world, frankly, right now, Orikhiv, very close to the
southern counter offensive frontline. And here is the story of the downtime, the silence, the heartbreak of one fire man we know called Dima.
WALSH (voice-over): The aftermath is not always easier. These are the firemen of the most bombed city on Earth, all accused -- in the throes of
the counter offensive. And this is a normal day for them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me pass, hi. Say hi to our subscribers. Girls will see you. And you'll get married.
WALSH (voice-over): Here's the story of one we've gotten to know, Dima.
DIMA: Sometimes it feels we were born in this war. In two hours there were 200 incoming. We were in the basement saying goodbye to life. The fire
moved through the balconies -- a bomb just landed.
WALSH (voice-over): Pain here doesn't just come from the flames away from the frontlines. Ukraine is suffering in ways we don't see. Dima has lost
nearly all his family since the war began. His wife left Europe as a refugee just days after the war started with his son and he doesn't know if
they will ever come back. The emptiness of their family home is a crippling constant weight on him.
DIMA: I'm going insane. Silence, the silence is killing me. When I'm working I feel better than here. I got so used to being there. I can't
sleep at night when I'm here at home. Sometimes I might sleep one hour in the day. At work I feel more at home and I can sleep despite the shelling.
WALSH (voice-over): The gaps between the horrors harder than the horror itself. And sleep when it comes is sometimes worse.
DIMA: These days I can barely sleep. When I fall asleep I dream about my family. I'm coming back from my shift and my family is here waiting for me.
My wife is back, we are together again, I'm so happy to see them after such a long time. I didn't see my family for nearly a year. It's a painful
WALSH (voice-over): Orikhiv has been ground to dust in the last two months. But Dima's grief here came immediately with last year's invasion. His
father died in its first days just before his wife left from heart attack, he says because of shelling. In that chaos, Dima had to bury his father
DIMA: His heart just stopped from fear. When it explodes, everything shakes inside you. So he dies in my mother's arms.
WALSH (voice-over): Now, he only has his mother left. She won't leave the house where his father died and where Dima was born, and where the flames
may strike again.
DIMA: I have my own war with my mother. One day I will just tie her up and bring her here, because I only have her. As soon as I see an air-raid
alert, "Orikhiv -- gliding bomb". As soon as I see Orikhiv I call her "Mum hide. Mum hide!" She says she's hiding but I don't know. My mama is a tough
WALSH (voice-over): Nearly every Ukrainian home has holes in it from people who won't come back and emotions forged in a war with no end in sight.
DIMA: I want all the Russians to live in a place like this after all they did to my town. Make them live in these conditions to the end of their
lives. I don't want them to exist at all as a nation. I agree there are normal people everywhere on each side. But I will have them until the end
of my life.
WALSH (on camera): We first met Dima months ago, we sort of learned slowly more and more about his personal circumstances. And it became something
that as a team we would sort of talk about amongst ourselves about how utterly awful the tragedies he's experienced had indeed been.
And I think we were very lucky to some degree that he agreed to speak to us and share that because it provides a window on something that's often
behind closed doors, when Ukraine is busy focused on the fight on trying to keep Russia out of its territory. But it gives you a window as to when
people begin to say, well, maybe it's time that there's a peace deal that people learn to "Live with Russia's presence inside of Ukraine".
When you hear what's been done to ordinary lives, personal lives for parents, you can understand why Ukrainians say well, no, that's not
something we're willing to necessarily contemplate. Orikhiv where he lives born, where he lives, where his mother still lives, But his father died,
where he works, that is changed beyond recognition.
We were there in May; it was pounded relentlessly even then. Now remarkably, it's even worse when 20 missile strikes in 20 minutes we heard
off. And so the damage is utterly extraordinary to behold, like the surface the moon sometimes, but horrifying, frankly, for us to hear. Dima go into
detail about what he'd lost, Becky.
ANDERSON: And you're absolutely right. I mean, it's Dima's story that really does provide that window into what the realities of war, the real
realities of war for people living through the whole thing. Nick, thank you. Nick Paton Walsh and his team is on the ground.
Still to come, former U.S. President Donald Trump is planning to surrender in Georgia. We'll have a live report on how long he is expected to stay in
jail after this.
ANDERSON: Former U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to turn himself in this, say to authorities in the state of Georgia. News comes as two of his
co-defendants including his former attorney, his former attorney sorry, surrendered earlier today. In an agreement made between Trump's attorneys
and the Fulton County District Attorney, the former president will be processed and released on a $200,000 bond.
This accused of course of taking part in a criminal enterprise to overturn the 2020 election results in that state. Mr. Trump has repeatedly denied
any wrongdoing. Right, well, that is Thursday as we understand it. CNN's Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz joins us now from the
Fulton County Courthouse in Atlanta. So just take us through who has surrendered so far?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, so far, we are starting to see some of these defendants, including Donald Trump have
their bonds set and their terms of release set. Those are the conditions that they have to meet to be able to stay out of jail as they await trial.
Donald Trump has to post $200,000 bond or sure that bond.
And then on top of that he is not allowed to do anything that may be perceived as intimidation of witnesses or defendants in this case that
includes by what he writes on social media. So some pretty strict terms for the former president that he hasn't seen in the other criminal cases he has
faced in his indictments in federal court, as well as his criminal case in New York related hush money payments in his business.
And so, as those bond negotiations are being finalized by the prosecutors, by defense attorneys for each of these 19 defendants here at this
courthouse complex around me, then there will be defendants going into the jail who were being arrested to show up and get inside the system of the
criminal justice system.
They will be fingerprinted. Some of them, many of them are very likely to be mug-shotted. They may be searched, their details personal details are
taken down and then they become people who are in custody of the sheriff's office. They are expected to be released, especially if they negotiate
their bond beforehand.
But the person who is the boldface name that has already been to that jail today, under arrest is John Eastman, a top election lawyer for Donald Trump
after the election facing the first set of consequences that comes with being indicted in the state of Georgia here in this case related to the
election results and the efforts to overturn Trump's loss and hold on to the presidency, Becky.
ANDERSON: Busy time in the building behind you this week, Katelyn, thank you. Well, Donald Trump may not be taking part in the first Republican
debate, but eight competitors for the presidential nomination will be there on Wednesday. These are the eight presidential hopefuls who qualified by
meeting three requirements set by the Republican National Committee of the RNC, among them signing a commitment to bat the eventual nominee.
Right now a new CNN poll of polls finds Trump topping his closest rival by 40 points. Overall 57 percent of Republican voters back the former
president his closest competitor, Florida Governor, Ron DeSantis came in at just 17 percent. Well, for tomorrow's debate, let's bring in CNN's Steve
Contorno in St. Petersburg, in Florida.
And Steve, you know, these are big sort of dramatized events, as it were debates. What's their real significance, though? I mean, just how important
are they in actually persuading a voter to vote for one candidate or another and this one, given that Trump doesn't play ball on this one,
what's the point?
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well Trump would certainly suggest that there isn't one and that's one of the reasons why he's not showing up tomorrow
night. He is saying I am ahead in this race by a pretty world wide margin. Why should I go out there and subject myself to attacks from people who are
trying to catch up to me.
And there is a certainly a question of how many people are going to tune into this debate if he is not on the stage. But it is an opportunity for
some of these other Republican contenders to introduce themselves to voters who may not yet be familiar with them and share their vision for the
country. Someone like Ron DeSantis has an opportunity to demonstrate that he is the front runner among Trump alternative candidates.
His campaign has said they expect he will be the focal point of the debate with Trump down on the stage. And potentially the subject of quite a few
attacks and mudslinging from his competitors, something he has said he is preparing for.
And then you have someone on the other end of the spectrum, like Doug Burgum, he's a Governor of North Dakota, he's polling in the single digits.
This is an opportunity for him to actually speak to an audience of the size that he has never really spoken to before.
But for candidates that have built their candidacies around this contrast with Donald Trump, it'd be really interesting to see what they do in a
debate where he is not on the stage. I'm talking about someone like Mike Pence, the former Vice President, who has sharply criticized his former
running mates over his actions on January 6 and trying to overturn the election.
It would have been very compelling to see Trump and Pence on a stage together, that won't happen now. And Pence will have to find other ways to
contrast himself with the former president, someone like Chris Christie, the former Governor of New Jersey, he is another person who has made his
candidacy very much about contrasting himself with President Trump.
He has vowed to go toe to toe with the former presidents, he will not get that opportunity tomorrow night. So there is an opportunity for these
candidates in the sense that this is, there will be a large audience there and an opportunity to speak to those voters. However, without Trump there,
the contrast with him will be difficult to make.
ANDERSON: Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? And we will be watching. Thank you, sir. "One World" with Zain Asher is up next.