Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

World Central Kitchen Pauses Operations in Rafah; Voting Underway in Potentially Pivotal Election; Why U.S. Tanks are Coming Up Short in Eastern Ukraine; Lawmaker who could be Part of Potential Coalition Live on CNN; Iceland's Blue Lagoon Evacuated. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 29, 2024 - 09:00   ET




ELENI GIOKOS, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: This is the scene in New York were in just under an hour court to resume Donald Trump's criminal hush

money trial jury deliberations set to get underway today. It is 9 am in Manhattan and its 5 pm here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Eleni Giokos. This is

"Connect the World".

Also happening over the next two hours, pressure is mounting on the U.S. as CNN analysis finds that U.S. made munitions were used by Israel in that

deadly strike on a displacement camp in Rafah on Sunday. South Africans are heading to the polls, and what's expected to be the most pivotal general

election since the end of apartheid.

Right, stock markets in New York, is going to open around 30 minutes from now. Let's check in on those pre market numbers. As you can see, sliding

around 260 points DOW Futures not looking for a very good start to the day, NASDAQ as well as S&P also in the red there are inflation concerns that are

simmering at this point in time.

And many say the markets are priced to perfection, so perhaps a little bit of steam can be taken off at this point. We'll check in on those numbers

later. But in the meantime, sometimes red lines can be blurry. The White House says President Joe Biden is not altering his policy towards Israel

following a deadly strike in Rafah that killed more than 45 people on Sunday.

The images sparked global outrage tragically burned, maimed and mutilated bodies, including children. As CNN and experts analysis, a video from the

scene found that U.S. made munitions were used in the strike. That is despite Joe Biden telling CNN earlier this month, he would not allow

certain American weapons to be used in a major offensive in Rafah.

And that's not all Washington is getting flack for. The temporary pier constructed by its military to help get aid into Gaza broke parts on

Tuesday. The satellite image, on the right shows a large section missing. Now the image on the left from weeks ago shows how it is supposed to look,

loads to discuss.

Yeah, I want to bring in CNN's Nada Bashir. She's in London for us. And we've also got CNN's Katie Bo Lillis, at the Pentagon as well. Great to see

you both, Katie, well, I want to start off with you. And I want to talk about the CNN analysis on the weapons that were used, that they were U.S.

made. What more do we know?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, so what CNN was able to do was geo- locate footage of the strike by matching up images of the entrance to the camp as well as tiles on the ground. And as part of that analysis, they

were able to see the tail section of an exploded munition of a used munition.

Several many weapons experts looked at this the image of this tail section and identified it very clearly as a U.S. made small diameter bomb, a very

specific variant, a GBU-39. And now these experts who reviewed this footage say that there's no question that that's what it was, according to one

former U.S. army senior explosive ordnance disposal team member this person said the warhead portion of the munition is distinct.

The guidance and wings section is extremely unique compared to other munitions. I saw the tail section and instantly knew it was one of the GBU-

39 variants. Now, these are made -- these weapons are made by Boeing they are 17 kilo payload and they are designed in theory to be a precision


They are designed to limit collateral damage, but of course any munitions that you use in such a densely populated area like Rafah were prior to the

Israeli offensive in this area, you had one point -- you had more than a million Palestinians sheltering here from conflict elsewhere in this sort

of war-torn enclave, you are going to have a very, very high risk of civilian casualties. So that amount of risk is to a certain degree

unavoidable here.

GIOKOS: And that is also standing by I mean, with all of this playing out the big question still remains on how aid is getting into Gaza and you know

Rafah was an important entry points, Nada, into the whole of the Gaza Strip frankly. We know the World Central Kitchen is halting operations due to

Rafah tax. We know that the pier that the U.S. built has been destroyed as well. What is the update on all of this?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the situation in Rafah continues to deteriorate -- have we seen aid organizations being forced to halt their

operations in and around the Gaza Strip, particularly in Rafah, we have seen limited aid getting in continued obstructions, of course for aid

getting in.

And there is a continued effort to push for more avenues to allow that vital humanitarian supplies to access those most in need. But of course,

the security situation poses a significant risk to those humanitarian workers on the ground. And of course, there has been mounting pressure from

the international community focused on the situation in Rafah.


This is an area where of course, more than a million civilians were pushed into by the Israeli military told to evacuate to the southern city again, a

vital gateway for aid. And at this point, it does appear as though we're only continuing to see more airstrikes on the Southern City of Rafah, not

only devastating attack on Sunday evening on the -- our neighborhood.

But in the last 24 hours, we have seen a further two rounds of strikes on areas over Rafah, which were centered on areas where civilians had been

sheltering, including the Al-Mawasi coastal area, which is an area that the Israeli military earlier this month, told civilians to evacuate to this was

supposed to be a humanitarian zone.

Now, of course, we are expecting the U.N. Security Council meeting. We have heard from diplomats within the United Nations that Algeria has circulated

a renewed resolution calling for a ceasefire. All eyes will be on the United States, which has vetoed multiple resolutions in the past, but of

course, mounting pressure, particularly around the so called red line of the Biden administration, whether or not this constitutes a red line.

So far, the White House has said that they haven't seen a full scale ground operation just yet that would be something that they would stand against.

But clearly, we are seeing more airstrikes, and of course, now, U.S. weapons being used on Rafah.

GIOKOS: All right, Nada Bashir, Katie Bo Lillis, great to have you on thank you for that update. For more on how CNN analyzed footage from the scene

and covering the use of U.S. made munitions, you can go to, where our reporters and producers break down how they geo-locate videos, spoke to

explosive weapons experts and eventually came to that conclusion.

The piece you're looking at right now will also be featured in our "Meanwhile in the Middle East" newsletter, and you can scan the QR code on

the screen to subscribe. And I'll have much more on our top international stories in just a moment. But first, I want to welcome Erica Hill who's

standing by in New York. It is, of course, all eyes on Former President Donald Trump. Erica, what are we expecting today?

ERICA HILL, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Eleni, absolutely will just under an hour from now the jury will be in receiving its instructions

from the judge. Judge Merchan pushing back the start time for jurors this morning after a very long day of closing arguments on Monday.

All in all, it should take about an hour for the jury to get those instructions and then the fate of America's 45th President will be in their

hands. CNN's Kara Scannell now has a look at those closing arguments and the heavy focus on one key witness.


KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): This case is not about Michael Cohen. It's about Mr. Trump. The prosecutions with the final word to the

jury in the Trump hush money trial. The first criminal case ever brought against a former president. Cleaning up some a star witness Michael Cohen's

testimony after Trump's defense repeatedly painted him as a liar and thief to the jury could not trust.

The defendant chose Michael Cohen as his fixer because he was willing to lie and cheat on his behalf. Lead prosecutor Joshua Steinglass said Mr.

Trump chose Mr. Cohen for the same qualities that his attorneys now urge you to reject his testimony because of it.

The Manhattan District Attorney accuses Trump of conspiring to undermine the 2016 election by illegally falsifying business records to conceal a

payment Cohen made to porn star Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet about an alleged affair. Her story is messy. It makes people uncomfortable to hear.

But that's kind of the point. That's what the defendant did not want the American people to see, Steinglass said referring to Stormy Daniels. It

turned out to be one of the most valuable contributions anyone ever made to the Trump campaign, Steinglass told the jury. While ticking through

evidence of another catch and kill deal involving Former Playboy Model Karen McDougal, when Cohen recorded a conversation with Trump.

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: About how to set the whole thing up with --

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, what are we going to pay $150?"

COHEN: Funding. Yes.

SCANNELL (voice-over): Steinglass called the recording jaw dropping and said of the catch and kill deals. This scheme cooked up by these men at

this time could very well be what got President Trump elected.

TRUMP: This is a very dangerous day for America. It's a very sad day.

SCANNELL (voice-over): Trump's defense speaking first something sources tell CNN the former president only recently realized and has been angry


TRUMP: -- federal law and did nothing --

SCANNELL (voice-over): Trump Attorney Todd Blanche reminding the jury that at one time Stormy Daniels denied the affair she now says she had with


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: So you signed and released a statement that said I'm not denying this affair because I was paid in hush money. I'm

denying it because it never happened. That's a lie.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful I just start kissing them.

SCANNELL (voice-over): Blanche claiming Daniels took advantage of Trump while he was running for president after the infamous Access Hollywood

Tape. Miss Daniels seized an opportunity.


Now's the time to strike, Blanche said she thought after ticking through many of the characters in this case trying to dent their credibility

Blanche became laser focused on Michael Cohen. He lied to you repeatedly. He lied many, many times before you even met him, Blanche told the jury.

Michael Cohen is the gloat, the greatest liar of all time. In a closing line that drew an objection from prosecutors and he didn't management from

the judge, Blanche exclaimed, you cannot send someone to prison. You cannot convict somebody based upon the words of Michael Cohen. Kara Scannell CNN,

New York.


HILL: My colleague, Brynn Gingras joins me now who, is outside that courthouse in lower Manhattan. So, Brynn, big moment coming less than an

hour from now when the judge will give the jury their instructions, what do we expect to learn from those instructions?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, listen, these instructions have not been made public, Erica. This was something that

those lawyers debated last week almost down to the final wording of what would be in those the judge making a final decision handing those back to

the lawyers last week.

So they can prepare those closing arguments that Kara just perfectly summarized. This will be the first time publicly that those jury

instructions will be given to the jurors. This is the first time we'll be hearing them. And remember, this is a roadmap really for these jurors to

interpret the law and apply it to all of that evidence.

Yesterday in closing arguments, Joshua Steinglass said to the jurors, take that evidence, and listen to those tapes multiple times if you need to

review everything in order to make your decision about the fate of Donald Trump. So look, this is how it's going to go today at 10 o'clock, those

jury instructions will begin to judge estimates that will take about an hour and then the deliberations begin.

Those seven men, five women will go behind closed doors will do their deliberations, Donald Trump and his defense team will be inside the

courthouse not necessarily in the courtroom waiting to see if there are any notes. We're told no notes will happen during the lunch hour, but also, of

course, waiting for that verdict.

We understand deliberations will go up to 4:30. We'll see if that changes later, as the day goes on. But it's possible, of course, if they don't have

a verdict, this could also go into tomorrow, Erica.

HILL: Could go into tomorrow. The judge actually started a little bit later than normal today, because yesterday was such a long day, Brynn hours and

hours of closing arguments.

GINGRAS: Yeah, I mean, it was a marathon of closing arguments. The defense took a little under three hours, the prosecution -- according my notes took

4 hours and 41 minutes. They went until about 8 o'clock last night. That's why the judge gave them a little bit of a reprieve starting today, at 10


It does seem like it'll be somewhat of a more normal structure day. Certainly the jurors though, if they get this case by you know, 11, 11:30

this morning, they're going to have pretty much a full day to do those deliberations. So we'll see how that goes.

HILL: Yes. And it is the waiting game as we know, Brynn, appreciate it. Thank you.


HILL: Just ahead here a democracy facing its biggest test in three decades. South Africans head to the polls in a truly pivotal election.



GIOKOS: Welcome back to a momentous day for South Africa where polls are open for an election that could see historic change in the rainbow nation

for the first time since the end of apartheid. The ruling ANC Party might be about to lose its majority. You're looking at images of President Cyril

Ramaphosa voting earlier.

Now despite his promise of a new dawn, that was six years ago South Africa is battling the highest sustained rate of unemployment in the world. And

the massive challenges include rampant corruption and a rise in violent crime.

Much to discuss, yeah, I want to bring in CNN's David McKenzie live from Johannesburg has been going around to polling stations around the city.

David, good to see you I'm sure you've been catching up with a lot of voters what's on their mind? What are they voting on today?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Eleni, I'm sure you recognize this area. We're in Downtown, Johannesburg, you see the

voters lining up patiently behind me, many of them being here since before dawn, at least at this polling station in the city center of Johannesburg,

many are saying the same thing to me.

And I've spoken to, you know, seven or eight people, even more, they say they want change, they are tired of the issues of alleged corruption, and

the inequality in this country and the lack of jobs is something that comes up both from people in the Middle Ages and those of the younger generation.

This must be it -- must be said that this area, though, is a stronghold of several opposition groups. It's too early to say whether this expectation

that the ANC might dip below that crucial 50 percent mark will be the case. It could be several days of vote counting after the polls close at 9 pm

local today, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people don't know this. But you know anyone born in South Africa after 1994 are called born freeze, because they were

born into a democratic South Africa, what is the younger generation voters wants? What are they voting for? Because they clearly don't have, I guess

perhaps the same loyalty and allegiance to the ANC, which is known as the Liberation Party, which many of the older generation fought so hard to get

into power.

MCKENZIE: Well, that's right. There is definitely a generational gap. Now, whether be born out in the actual voting is unclear. But you do sense that

those 50, 60 and above very much have this direct emotional tie to the ruling African National Congress, because they have that direct experience

with apartheid.

And the role that the ANC played in the liberation of this country through to the first democratic elections in 1994, the kind of younger you get that

link becomes more tenuous, unless you are someone who had very vocal anti- parents. I've spoken to many young people over the past few weeks who really say that what is more important to them than legacy is the future,

the lack of jobs.

This is the country with the highest unemployment rate in the world. They don't see the opportunity, even if they have managed to get a tertiary

education to get those jobs. And that is something you hear a lot today, at least in this polling station is not enough opportunity. And it's time for

a change.

On a practical level, what will happen if the answer drops below 50 percent is they'll be forced to form a coalition government with a smaller party.

Now, if they're dropped well below 50 percent, they might have to join with one of the bigger opposition parties. It's too early to tell and as I say

it could take several days for these votes that are happening right now to be tallied and made official, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah, and David, look, the wildcard in many ways has been you know, Jacob Zuma's MK party who's gained quite a bit of traction in a key

province in KwaZulu-Natal. What's the sense of his popularity and what they saying about Jacob Zuma getting back in the running?

MCKENZIE: There is a sense of this could be the wild card here, Jacob Zuma, the Former President that has had multiple allegations of corruption

against them, has been part of this new party that could siphon off votes. I just want you to listen to a young man who I spoke to earlier at this

polling station about what it's all about for him.


PHEELO MOFOKENG, VOTER: Look, David, we all know that we facing you know problems as a country. I want the good education, quality education for

that matter. Bright future, you know, in a good country well governed.


MCKENZIE: Cammisa (ph). So Cammisa (ph) is his daughter. I was just actually clarifying her name. They're six years old. She was on his

shoulders through waiting line. In fact, he had to go to another polling station. Many people are confused where exactly they registered.


But, Eleni, you do get a sense of enthusiasm on this vote and people realizing that this is a critically important vote whether they support the

ruling party, or the opposition parties that are contending this election, Eleni.

GIOKOS: All right, David McKenzie, great to see you and great to see Johannesburg in the background. All right, so I want to speak now to

someone who could play a key role in that potential historic coalition that we just spoke about Herman Mashaba is the leader of the ActionSA party and

the Former Mayor of Johannesburg joins us now from there.

Herman, great to have you with us, it's good to see you again. It's a historic day, many would say because we just don't know whether the ANC.

We're just talking about this with David can actually maintain that majority that it has for such a long time. Do you believe that these

elections are going to be a defining moment for South Africa?

HERMAN MASHABA, LEADER OF ACTIONSA PARTY: Thank you very much. And -- afternoon and thank you -- opportunity -- know a majority of -- South

Africans --

GIOKOS: Herman, I'm so sorry. It's a very bad line and we can barely hear you. Unfortunately, it's a really bad line. I'm hoping we can maybe get

that line fixed and get you up again, if you could please check your internet connection if you ask your team to assist you. All right, Herman,

thank you. We'll try again.

I want to get you up to speed on some other stories that are on our radar right now supplies from Australia arriving at Papua New Guinea five days

after that devastating landslide. Roads and bridges are damaged making it harder to get food as well as equipment to the remote region.

Researchers and searchers are using makeshift tools and their hands to look for around 2000 people believe to be buried in the rubble. India's extreme

heat wave is forcing water rationing and the capital of New Delhi recent record heats of 50 degrees Celsius or 120 degrees Fahrenheit triggered.

Officials say they will enforce penalties for non-compliance. Forecasters expect the extreme heat to ease a bit on Thursday. Severe weather threatens

Northern Texas and the Rockies putting 11 million people at risk of bad weather today. Some two dozen people have died in a handful of U.S. states

from severe storms and powerful tornadoes since the weekend.

Today's bad weather in Texas could delay crews restoring power to a half million residents. Right, let's turn now to a new show of support for Kyiv

coming out of Europe. The leaders of France and Germany say Ukraine should be allowed to strike military sites in Russia with weapons provided by the



EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Ukrainian soil is being attacked from bases in Russia. So how do we explain to the Ukrainians that we're going to

have to protect these towns? And basically everything we're seeing around Kharkiv at the moment, if we tell them you are not allowed to hit the point

from which the missiles are fired?

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: As far as the question of Ukraine's activities is concerned. I want to say this in general terms, because the

discussion comes up again and again. Ukraine has every possibility under international law for what it is doing. This has to be said explicitly. It

is under attack and is entitled to defend itself.


GIOKOS: Well, both leaders underscored that only targets in Russia being used to attack Ukraine should be considered fair game. Russia has responded

with Putin saying it could lead to serious consequences. Now on the battlefield in Ukraine, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has sent this exclusive

report from the Eastern France where he says he's hearing firsthand how U.S. supplied Abrams tanks are coming up short. Have a look.


NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): They hide feverishly as they're a prime target for Russian missiles. But if Moscow knew the trouble these U.S. supplied Abrams tanks are causing

Ukraine. They might not bother. Let them keep them. The M1 Abrams, America's main battle tank, a veteran of fighting Saddam in Iraq and dozen

insurgents, but -- Ukrainian fields, and $500 attack drones not so much.

WALSH: There was such a fuss around whether Ukraine would get these but from the moment the decision was made, yes. Through the training, through

the time it took to get to the front line. But war has enormously changed.

WALSH (voice-over): All 31 America gave and now in one area in the east where Ukraine is losing ground. Training in Germany, the interior in

Ukrainian and while there is gratitude for all U.S. help, they can't pretend this is working.


"JOKER", UKRAINIAN 47TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE: Its armor is not sufficient for this era. It doesn't protect the crew. For real, today it's a war of

drones. So now when the tank rolls out they always try to hit it number one target.

"DNIPRO" UKRAINIAN 47TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE: On the battlefield without defense the crew doesn't survive.

WALSH (voice-over): They've learned the hardest way here in the pitched battle for the City of Avdiivka. One of their drivers lost a leg recently.

Off camera, they show us how they're adding active armor plates on themselves. Then there were the shells. Not enough of the wrong type for

the wrong sort of fighter.

"JOKER": We have -- for direct tank to tank battle. Much more often we work as artillery. We take apart a tree line or a building. Once we fired 17

rounds into a house and it was still standing.

WALSH (voice-over): Better than Soviet tanks they still say even though this one fresh from Poland is already broken down. Condensation can fry the

electrics they also say. Really, this is a solid gold wrench of a gift. This is a tank for a kind of war NATO would only fight backed by huge

artillery and air power. They're being asked to do things NATO never would.

"JOKER": They would never do it. Aviation, artillery, then the tanks enters. And infantry call the aviation, call the artillery. We have no

aviation and artillery. We have only tank. And it's the problem.

WALSH (voice-over): When Abrams was captured and paraded in Red Square recently, the crew here joke at least the Russians managed to tow it away.

They've been struggling because these are so heavy. This threadbare army losing ground perhaps wish they'd got a gift receipt.

WALSH: If you could ask the Americans for one thing now what would you ask for?

"JOKER": I have only one question: Why is this taking so long and why it comes partially? We are losing time. It's death to us.

WALSH (voice-over): Machines built at the peak of American hyper power decades ago, sent half-heartedly it seems to hold back a fast changing

world. Nick Paton Walsh CNN, Eastern Ukraine.


GIOKOS: And still to come, how American attitudes towards the U.S. economy have changed recently. We'll give you an update on that as well as the

opening markets. Stay with us.



GIOKOS: Welcome back, I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi. And you're watching "Connect the World". So markets in the U.S. are officially open. As you can

see, we're down almost 8/10 of a percent down 319 points on the DOW. So it's a red day across the wall board and Wall Street is feeling a little

bit down given that open that we've been seeing.

But we're hearing Americans are feeling better about the economy. That's the word from the U.S. Conference Board whose consumer confidence index is

up this month. The board says that's due to improve perceptions of the job market. U.S. unemployment remains with low 4 percent.

And employers are still pumping our jobs at a brisk pace, but there's a hitch. Elevated inflation still looms large I want to bring in Matt Egan

from New York. I would ask you how consumers are feeling. They're clearly a bit confident perhaps I should be asking you, Matt, are you feeling more

confidence about the economy?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Eleni, I think I'm feeling more confident than I was a year or two ago because inflation is in such a better place.


EGAN: The Fed has stopped dramatically raising interest rates. But obviously the cost of living remains a significant problem. And so this

latest survey shows that Americans are feeling a little bit better about the economy, right. Consumer confidence did go up in May significantly from


This was a bit of a surprise because some other confidence gauges, most notably consumer sentiment from the University of Michigan that had

actually been going down. Now this specific gauge is more sensitive to the jobs market. And we know it remains resilient and also the fact that the

stock market is near record highs.

Gas prices are a team that is helping but let's look at the trend here. One thing that stands out to me on this chart is that really confidence remains

subdued. Even though unemployment remains historically low, and the stock market is historically high. Americans feel worse about the economy today

than they did in 2021.

And they feel worse than they did during the Trump administration before COVID. And again, that does get to the cost of living. When you dig into

this report, there are really a lot of mixed signals. On the positive side, we've seen that young and more affluent consumers are feeling better.

That's probably because of again, the stock market being near record highs. Also fewer people are saying that jobs are hard to get, so all of those are

positives. On the negative side, though, consumers are bracing for consumer prices to go even higher. They're very cautious on housing, is a 12 year

low, in terms of the percentage of people who say they plan to buy a home.

And also the amount of people who say they want to buy a car that remains relatively depressed. Another interesting finding here is that a lot of

Americans are still worried about a recession. More than two in three consumers say that they think it's somewhat or very likely that there's

going to be recession in the next year. That stands in stark contrast to CEOs where you see just one in three expect the recession. So Eleni, I

think it'd be put all this together.


EGAN: It shows that the mood on Main Street remains pretty cautious and inflation weary Americans, they're just waiting for the next shoe to drop.

GIOKOS: Matt Egan, always good to have you on. Thank you. And for the latest business stories from across the world, you can always head to the

business section on And today we're looking at why Americans are feeling better about the economy for the first time in months and the

surprising sale of Britain's Royal Mail, a 500 year old institution to a Czech billionaire.

That's a much more on CNN's website and of course on the app as well. And I want to get back now to a pivotal election in South Africa that could see

the ruling ANC party loses majority. Herman Mashaba is the leader of the ActionSA party and Former Mayor of Johannesburg, and he joins us now from


Great to see you again, Herman, thank you so much. OK, I want to start off with why you believe this might be one of the most pivotal elections for

South Africa since the end of apartheid.

MASHABA: Well, I think, you know, in 1994, after many years of oppression, we voted for Nelson Mandela. And we expected South Africa to see an

explosion of South Africa becoming the beacon of the world. Unfortunately, here we are 30 years later, we sit with the most corrupt and caring,

unpatriotic government, the world has ever seen. So I think South Africans are really tired.


That's why today we are seeing massive turnout of voters coming out to vote. I've been out in on the streets since this morning -- right now in

some way too. And people are queuing -- the type of queues that we actually saw in 1994.

GIOKOS: Yeah, OK. So Herman, I want to talk a little bit about the fact that the reality might be. We might be looking at coalition governments.

You tweeted that you won't be giving your votes to the ANC. Who are you willing to work with in the event of coalition's being a reality after

these elections?

MASHABA: Well, I think -- and the world with -- I want to make it really very clear. I'm a businessman. I'm a capitalist, and who came into politics

for the removal of the ANC. It is for that reason I wanted to clear that I will not work with a criminal enterprise, criminal organization because

they -- cannot really be a criminal enterprise.

We are happy as -- a to work with other parties in South Africa, who shares the same -- with us countries that they actually support free market

economies, countries that respects human rights, countries that actually believe in property rights. It is for that reason, there's another party --

GIOKOS: OK, so who? So would it be? Would it be the Democratic Alliance? Would it be the EFF? Would it be Zuma's MK?

MASHABA: No, it would definitely. It can't be the EFF. It can't be Zuma's MK's. These are all the brainchild of the ANC, all corrupt. They're, all

believing in communist or socialist, ideologist. And that's something that for us ActionSA, we will never entertain?

Yes, absolutely, if the DA is happy to work with us, we are happy to work with them. And other parties like the IFP and other like-minded political

parties, but the ANC, EFF, MK out of the question.

GIOKOS: So let me ask you this, Herman. Because, you know, it's important to also note that under Cyril Ramaphosa the current president, there was a

big move to try and root out corruption and also fix the systemic issues that existed in the country. But I want to talk about where the coalition

governments in reality could work because they're not working at local level right now where coalitions exist.

Could they actually work at national level because your banner is to fix South Africa, the only way it can be fixed is with policy continuity, and

of course, people working together that aren't divided?

MASHABA: Well, unfortunately, right now, the South African government under Cyril Ramaphosa is actually the west the corruption we've ever seen,

including with him actually being the leader of corruption in our country. I'm sure the world is aware. Our president is involved in money laundering;

keeping money under the mattress is not coming through the Reserve Bank.

How can we ever really trust someone like that? So I think yes, we've really experienced corruption under Jacob Zuma, under Thabo Mbeki. But at

the moment under Cyril Ramaphosa it's a free for all. It's for that reason that one cannot really work with --


MASHABA: -- unfortunately have to face our law enforcement agencies.

GIOKOS: All right, Herman Mashaba, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. Good to see you. And still ahead a clash of the Tennis

Titans, the latest from the French Open as Iga Swiatek as well as Naomi Osaka battle it out shortly. We'll bring you an update on that. Stay with




GIOKOS: Welcome back and I want to show you some amazing pictures. This is the scene in Southern Iceland, where a new eruption is forcing the

evacuation of the Blue Lagoon, the famous geothermal spine tourist hotspots had to be evacuated back in March after similar activity. Just look at


We're going to continue monitoring the situation then you can see the lava spewing that really fascinating. Well, the French Open tennis tournament

has already seen some huge showdowns and another will take place shortly top seeded as Iga Swiatek takes on Naomi Osaka in a battle of four times,

Grand Slam champions. And we've got none other than Patrick Snell to give us a sense of who's got the edge, Patrick?

PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Hi there, Eleni. Yeah, I'd probably say Iga Swiatek, the world number one the Polish superstar from Warsaw who

absolutely loves playing at Roland-Garros on the -- tear by two there. She is the top ranked player in the world right now.

She's taking on a former world number one player because by the name of Naomi Osaka, the Japanese Superstar. Osaka now slowed down to 134 in the

world rankings as she continues to come back following -- becoming a mother there. And I tell you what, it's going to be a good game because they have

the savvy they have to know how and as you said they have a total of eight Grand Slam titles between them.

So watch this space. This one is not expected to start though, Eleni, for probably about another at least one hour or so right now. They're waiting

the conclusion of the Carlos Alcaraz match. He's in action right now, back to you.

GIOKOS: All right, Patrick, you're going to have more updates for us after the short break. We'll see you then and I'll be back at the top of the

hour. You're watching CNN.