Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Americans Freed in Prisoner Exchange Reunite with Families; Biden Touts Global Effort on Freed Americans; Interview with Poland's Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski; Hamas Calls for Prayers and "Days of Anger" Over Assassination of Ismail Haniyeh; U.S. Added 114,000 Jobs in July; Rohingya Hijras Endure Rampant Rape, Sexual Assault; U.S. Adds More Gold at the Paris Games. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired August 02, 2024 - 10:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:21]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And welcome to the second hour of the show. I am Becky Anderson. It is 3:00 p.m. in London.
Americans freed in a prisoner exchange reunite with their families. We speak with the Polish foreign minister about his country's role in those
negotiations.
Hamas calls for prayers and a day of anger over its political leader's assassination.
And U.S. jobs numbers fall unexpectedly raising big concerns and taking a toll on the financial markets this Friday.
Well, our top story this hour, the long-awaited return of three Americans detained in Russia is finally a reality. They were greeted by their
families and by President Joe Biden with hugs and overwhelming joy after their plane landed at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland on Thursday.
Former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan, "Wall Street Journal" reporter, Evan Gershkovich, and the Russian American journalist Alsu Kurmasheva were part
of a massive prisoner exchange on Thursday involving more than two dozen people and seven countries. Well, now they are in San Antonio in Texas
where they will undergo medical evaluations.
I want to bring in Nic Robertson and Priscilla Alvarez in Washington.
And Nic, this exchange, historic as it was, has raised a very significant question as to why Russian President Vladimir Putin would agree to this
now. What are your sources telling you and how did this all play out?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think it's very hard to read why the Kremlin does anything at any particular time and doubly so
trying to figure out what's going on inside President Putin's head. What is clear we understand because of the way that all this was put together over
a period of time with ups and downs, that this is when it came together.
But one of the last pieces was a couple of Russian spies being held in Slovenia, go into court, being charged with espionage, and that seemed to -
- the willingness of Slovenia to let them be part of this seemed to sort of be the last thing of many hurdles that was blocking the way. So in part it
appears to be the natural consequence of timing.
What it means the Putin, the fact that he was there at the runway, the fact that there was an FSB colonel, Vadim Krasikov, who murdered a Chechen
dissident in an execution-style killing in the middle of a Berlin park, and was in a German jail, the fact that Putin really resisted any other
exchange that didn't involve him shows you the high value of Krasikov and we've learned more about him from the Kremlin, that he is part of some
alpha special operations unit, a unit that is involved in protecting President Putin in that sort of close guard around him in the Kremlin.
So you can clearly see that this FSB colonel Krasikov had high, high value for Putin. And the way that he's played this up, it's he's returning these
important people to Russia and it's a sort of piece of symbolism, if you will, that could be important for him, you know, at a time of war when he
needs to show that the state will look after its spies, its troops, people associated with the military.
But of course, on the U.S. side not everyone was released, and John Kirby, the national security spokesman here, has spoken about the efforts to get
Marc Fogel, a teacher in Russia who's been held in jail there for three years on minor drugs charges. The family has spoken about their heartbreak.
John Kirby spoke about how this piece just couldn't fall into place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: The Russians just weren't willing to throw him into the mix. And we tried many
different times. I mean, from a very, early stage here when we knew we had to work on a new deal, we included Mr. Fogel. Regrettably they just weren't
biting at it.
But I will say this, Kate, and I said the same thing after we got Brittney Griner home and we couldn't get Paul home at that time. Every time you do
these negotiations, you learned, you gained some knowledge and perspective about what the other side will or won't trade for and where their headspace
is, and that was the case in this case.
So even though we weren't able to get Mr. Fogel, we learned a lot about the Russian perspective on him and his case and we're going to hopefully be
able to apply that in the conversations that we're having right now with them and we are having those conversations now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:05:11]
ROBERTSON: So we'll not know the detail that John Kirby is speaking about that about the knowledge that they learned about the Fogel case with the
Russians. But what we know about what the Russians have done when they've held out and don't release people like Paul Whelan in the past, there's
somebody else or something else they want. This is a system that they clearly intend to carry on, holding people on what in many cases are
trumped-up charges so that they can exert a price at a later date. And there clearly appears to be a price that the Kremlin still wants from the
United States.
ANDERSON: Priscilla, let me bring you in at this point because we cannot ignore the timing on this, coming as it does just over 90 days before what
is a crucial U.S. election. You're at the White House. What could this success mean for the election in November?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is certainly going to be part of President Biden's legacy. And already we've seen how all of this
unfolded against this political backdrop with the former president weighing in as well as his vice presidential nominee essentially saying that it was
-- that Russia wanted to do this now because they're afraid of a former president Donald Trump taking a second term.
Now John Kirby, the National Security Council spokesperson, was asked about that directly on CNN earlier this morning, and he said there's no evidence
to suggest that. Instead, what we have heard multiple times from U.S. officials over the last 24 hours is what a feat of diplomacy this was and
how all of these puzzle pieces came together to finally culminate in the release of these Americans among others yesterday.
And that included a lot of high-profile calls and meetings especially this year in January. The president speaking with the chancellor of Germany then
meeting with him in February. The vice president doing much of the same, meeting in February with the chancellor as well as the Slovenian prime
minister.
And over -- and the reason we should underscore that it was so important for other countries to play a role here is because the U.S. was in a
position where they were having to essentially search for Russians -- who would Russia want to get back in order to release these Americans and in
the case of Germany, they have that Russian assassin Krasikov, who was serving life in prison in Germany, then too you had a tune nationals in
Slovenia, two Russian nationals in Slovenia.
So all of this required the U.S. to work with Poland, Norway, Slovenia and Germany to make this come together. And that was why when the president
greeted these Americans on the tarmac at Joint Base Andrews yesterday along with the vice president, he also came over to reporters to stress how
important these alliances were. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today is a powerful example of why it's vital to have friends in this world. Friends you can trust, work
with and depend upon, especially on matters of great consequence and sensitivity like this. Our alliances make our people safer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALVAREZ: So that was really the theme of the day and it's also spilled into today, which is that against the backdrop of Republicans wanting a more
isolationist foreign policy, the president and the vice president making clear that it is important to have these relationships abroad to pull off
feats like this. The vice president in particular taking a moment yesterday to say that all of this underscores the stake of the presidential election.
But again, they have been asked multiple times, they being U.S. officials, about the timing of this and each time they come to the fact that really it
just took this much time to put these puzzle pieces together and to bring this all to fruition.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you both. Thank you very much indeed.
Well, it's part of all this historic prisoner swap, Poland says it released a suspect Russian spy arrested in 2022 back into Russian custody.
Joining us to discuss this is Poland's foreign minister, Radoslav Sikorski.
It's good to have you, sir. Rubtsov, the Russian detained on suspicion of spying for Russia on the 27th of February 2022, as I understand it, three
days after Russia's invasion of Ukraine in a Polish city, which at the time was the main reception point for refugees fleeing Ukraine. In the almost
two and a half years since then, he has remained in Polish custody with courts repeatedly extending his period of pretrial detention.
Did he deserve a trial?
RADOSLAV SIKORSKI, POLISH FOREIGN MINISTER: He deserved to be sent to prison for very many years. He was a Russian GRU illegal pretending to be a
Spanish journalist. Our prosecution service was very certain of the evidence, and he -- there was a high chance he would have been convicted.
[10:10:07]
So I hope it is appreciated by the United States. I can tell you our prosecution service was not happy to let go.
ANDERSON: Which begs the question, just how tough a decision then was this for Polish authorities and why in the end, given I can hear the tone of
your narrative here, why do it at this point?
SIKORSKI: The negotiations started under the previous government. There was close collaboration with Poland's president, who is from a different
political club. But we all across the Polish political spectrum appreciate the alliance with the United States. And I can confirm what President Biden
said, you do need allies in need. When you are attacked on 9/11, we sent a brigade to Afghanistan, we sent a brigade to Iraq, and now we give you this
favor, but of course, the United States does favors for us, too.
We receive intelligence warnings. We are -- we have 10,000 American troops in Poland. That's what being allies is about. I can tell you that we of
course have our people in prisons in Russia, in Belarus. The U.S. government is being criticized for not getting everybody out. We would also
like more innocent Russians, innocent Belarussians, innocent Poles of Belarusian nationality to be released. But the nature of such swaps that
you don't entirely control the process.
ANDERSON: I do want to just show the Prime Minister Tusk's post on X in the wake of this, quote, "The prisoner exchange operation has just ended thanks
to which Russian opposition heroes and citizens of NATO countries detained in Russia left Russia. The action was possible thanks to the involvement of
our state. I would like to thank the president and the services for their exemplary cooperation."
Very much echoing I think what you've just suggested. Just how important was NATO cooperation in all of this?
SIKORSKI: NATO provides the framework of trust between allies. It's because we collaborate on a daily basis at NATO, using NATO procedures. We have a
history of NATO operations together. That's why we are less transactional than perhaps we would be if we were in a purely nation-to-nation system. So
it's important because we expect the United States to help us when we are in need.
And also remember that not all of the details of all these exchanges of favors can be discussed publicly.
ANDERSON: Well, it's extremely useful to have you on. It's good to catch up with you, Foreign Minister. And I very much appreciate the time on what is,
you know, day two as it were in the wake of what was an historic exchange involvement of course by Poland as we have been discussing.
Thank you.
SIKORSKI: -- to express my satisfaction at the release of Vladimir Kara- Murza in particular. Thank you.
ANDERSON: Thank you. Thank you.
Well, Hamas calling for a day of rage as its political leader Ismail Haniyeh is buried and mourned in Doha, Qatar. That funeral is happening
this hour days after his assassination in Tehran. Haniyeh, who you see here on the right, was heavily involved in the hostage and ceasefire
negotiations on Gaza.
But his was not the only high-profile targeted killing. The IDF also killed a senior Hezbollah commander, the man on the left. He was killed in Lebanon
on Tuesday and yesterday it announced the head of the military wing of Hamas had been killed back in July.
Well, in the wake of the Hamas political leader's assassination and the other killings we've heard threats and promises of retaliation from various
figures across the region. And the White House Security Council spokesman has just told CNN that the U.S. has certainly heard those threats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRBY: We've heard the supreme leader loud and clear that he intends to avenge this killing of a Hamas leader in Tehran and that they want to
conduct another attack on Israel. We can't just assume that we aren't also potentially going to be victims of that kind of an attack. So we got to
make sure we get the right resources and capabilities in the region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We're not seeing significant retaliation yet, but the IDF says a projectile from Gaza landed inside Israel Friday and numerous rockets were
fired from Lebanon.
[10:15:09]
However those did not they say cross into Israeli territory.
All right. Well, we've got teams on the ground covering all the angles for you. Ben Wedeman is in Lebanon. He's in Beirut for you today. Clarissa Ward
is in Tel Aviv in Israel.
And Clarissa, Israel says that it is ready for a range of scenarios. Can we just talk a little bit more about what that range might be and what the
mood is there?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Becky, obviously Iran has made clear its intention to launch some kind of an attack.
Nasrallah yesterday, the leader of Hezbollah, said it could be potentially also a coordinated attack. The British secretary of defense is here in
Israel meeting with his counterpart Yoav Gallant. You've heard from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also saying that Israeli forces are on the
highest of alert and that they are ready for anything.
On the streets, I would say it's fairly calm and pretty much business as usual, though we are starting to see preparations for some kind of possible
strike. Jerusalem municipality has issued instructions to its citizens to make sure that their shelter is clean, that it's operational. It's told
them that they would have 90 seconds between warning sirens and potential impact to get into those shelters.
We also spoke to a hospital here in Tel Aviv that said that they have cleared one of the underground parking lots of cars to be sure to have an
area where they could potentially treat people if there was some kind of a strike, some kind of an ongoing situation. And we've heard from a chain of
supermarkets that says there has been a 30 percent increase in sales, particularly canned goods and also toilet paper.
There have been warnings as well that there may be power outages for several days, so definitely a sense that a state of readiness is being
attained, but no sense yet as to what the specific nature of the threat would be and also the specific timing, Becky.
ANDERSON: Ben, let me bring you in here. What's the mood where you are and what more do we know about the funeral underway for the Hamas leader in
Qatar, which I know you are keeping monitored from where you are?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the mood here in Lebanon is one of growing concern. We're seeing that there have been more
cancelations of flights and many of the flights out of Beirut at the moment are, if not full very quickly filling up. Many people deciding that perhaps
now is a good time to leave.
Regarding that funeral in Doha, Qatar, what we've seen it, it was attended by the emir of Qatar, the prime minister, and also Khalil al-Hayya, who's
the deputy leader of Hamas. Obviously, Qatar very unhappy that the Israelis and Qatar being key to the negotiations for a ceasefire in Gaza and the
release of these Israeli hostages, Qatar is very unhappy that Israel has gone and killed the chief Hamas negotiator, which really doesn't help the
process very much.
But what we've seen is in addition to the ceremony at the main mosque in Doha is protests in places like Indonesia, Pakistan, Yemen. There's a very
large protests in Amman, Jordan at the killing of Haniyeh. Regarding Turkey, where there were also prayers for Ismail Haniyeh, we saw that
Turkey has announced a day of mourning. And interestingly, the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv lowered the flag there to half-mast, sparking a very
angry diplomatic protest from the Israeli Foreign Ministry -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Ben and Clarissa, thank you.
Let's take you to a break. As I do that, let's have a quick look at the Dow Jones Industrial Average. It's a pretty miserable day there for investors.
The time of course after the markets have opened now. They've been open for, what, some 50 minutes, five-zero minutes. It's not looking good.
Investors are really spooked by the latest jobs report showing a weakening in the jobs market and concerns about where the U.S. economy is headed
next. More on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:21:54]
ANDERSON: Some surprising U.S. jobs numbers are out for July. The U.S. economy added 114,000 jobs last month. That number might sound big but it
is far fewer than had been expected. And the unemployment rate in the United States unexpectedly jumped to 4.3 percent. All of this now adding to
concerns that the world's biggest economy may be slowing down at too quick a pace. And there is fear on Wall Street that the Federal Reserve may not
be the acting quickly enough to keep America's job market in good shape.
Paula Newton joins us now with more.
Well, investors really don't like these numbers. The markets are taking a real dive, and talk again it seems of that R word, recession. Take us just
behind these numbers if you will. What's going on here?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this really will be, Becky, the jobs report heard around the world. And the reason is that it came in more
than 60,000 jobs, fewer than expected by economists on what economists thought was a fairly robust economy, slowing, yes, but slowing at a gradual
healthy pace. When you look at these job numbers, maybe not so much. What is also concerning is 4.3 percent unemployment in the United States.
I mean, Becky, when you look at that rate, that's about as high as it's been since October 2021, taking everyone back, right? The United States was
coming out of the post-pandemic job losses there.
The other thing, though, Becky, that is concerning and concerning for markets again is the strength of the overall economy while there was a
good, healthy GDP number out of the U.S. for the second quarter, the fact is when you look at companies, even like Amazon, think about that, Becky,
Amazon saying that the consumers are becoming cautious in the United States. Well, that really throws tremors into not just the U.S. economy,
but the world economy.
I want you to look at the markets now. I mean, look, they're not losing their minds on the market, but they're certainly tentative and they're
waiting for the next direction from the Federal Reserve. The problem is, Becky, was this an opportunity lost, right? The Federal Reserve just met
earlier this week. They did not cut interest rates. Many economists thought that they should. They did not so now all eyes in September, which there
were undoubtedly be a quarter point cut in interest rates.
The question now is, is a half percent cut in the cards? And if that happens again, world markets will react.
ANDERSON: Who would want to be Jerome Powell at this point? And of course, less than 100 days away from a U.S. election. Not that he says that makes
any difference to his decision-making at all. He made that point. These are not decisions made because there is an election forthcoming. He says that
is not the point of the Federal Reserve, but boy, it's a tough decision making process at this point.
Always a pleasure. Thank you, Paula.
Just ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD, my next guest says he is glad for the families of those who have been freed from Russia, but he wonders if
Vladimir Putin got too much from what was this historic prisoner swap deal. That is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:27:32]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson, 27 minutes past 3:00 here in London. Normally, of course, based
in the UAE, in Abu Dhabi, but London our base for the next couple of weeks.
More now on our top story. It was a hero's welcome as three Americans took their first steps on U.S. soil since being released from Russian prisons.
These emotional and frankly powerful scenes came just hours ago as U.S. President Joe Biden, the Vice President Kamala Harris welcomed home
journalists Evan Gershkovich and Alsu Kurmasheva, and the Marine veteran Paul Whelan. Part of the biggest prisoner swaps since the Cold War between
east and west. President Biden says it wouldn't have happened without the help of America's international allies.
Well, the freed Americans have traveled from Joint Base Andrews in Maryland to San Antonio, Texas, for medical checks now. You can see Paul Whelan
arriving in this video. Evan following him off the plane.
Well, my next guest says, quote, "The Russian leader will now see hostage- taking is quite literally a get-out-of-jail-free card for the assassins, saboteurs and spies his regime sends around the world to murder, steal or
cause chaos."
Bob Seely is a former member of the U.K. Foreign Affairs Select Committee and a former conservative member of parliament for the Isle of Wight,
lovely place, sir. And he joins us now from there.
And look, we saw those images. I mean, the families of these prisoners and these prisoners overjoyed, of course, on the tarmac. We saw "Wall Street
Journal," its newsroom celebration. And I'm not for a moment do I suppose that you are denying that joy and happiness. These friends and family, you
know, obviously desperate to see these people back.
Just explain where you see this fine line, though, that you believe should be drawn so as not to encourage bad actors to imprison innocent people.
BOB SEELY, FORMER MEMBER, BRITISH FOREIGN AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE: Good afternoon, Becky. Good afternoon to your many viewers and listeners. I'm
delighted for them all and especially for Yevgenia Kara-Murza, because she's got Vladimir out. And look, it was -- we worried people who are
lobbying the British government to talk to the U.S. about Vladimir, who is a U.K. citizen. We were worried that like Navalny, he wouldn't make it out.
So I'm just emotional and happy about that.
[10:30:01]
The problem is that actually state hostage-taking is now becoming really quite prevalent. So talking with Brittney Griner and in response the
Russians got back one of the most notorious arms dealers in modern history. And they've now got back their assassin who was in a German prison for
murdering a Georgia national, and they've got back a bunch of unsavory characters.
So if you're China, if you're Iran, if you're Russia, what you're seeing is you can take hostages, state hostages in trumped-up charges and you can
negotiate to get your bad actors back. And it is literally a get-out-of- jail-free card for Putin's assassins, saboteurs and his spies. And that's the worry.
ANDERSON: What's the alternative?
SEELY: The -- well, OK. Great question. The U.S. negotiates, the Brits don't, because I went to the Foreign Office at the request of people around
Kara-Murza, including his family and friends, and also ends in the same way for the Navalny case and the Brits said we don't negotiate. And the Brits
don't negotiate for precisely this reason that you set a precedent. And even then, we've had British people taken by the Iranians. Nazanin Zaghari-
Ratcliffe was the most famous case, which dragged on for years.
The problem is if the U.S., if you're like the U.S. and you negotiate great now, Putin has done this twice and in the past few years, he's got lots of
people out of prison who should not have been got out of prison. Arms dealers, major fraudsters in the U.S., illegals and deep, deep, deep
penetration spies in the European union. And in Norway, he's got his FSB- SVR assassins out as well of German prisons. So he is gaming us and playing the system.
ANDERSON: Look, this is the White House's position which is, you know, contrary to your view here. And they will absolutely point out that these
Americans, of course, were designated wrongfully detained. Here's the National Security Council spokesperson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRBY: Nobody is delighted or doing backflips over here because Mr. Krasikov is now a free man. That's what negotiations are all about. They
require tough decisions, tough calls. The president was willing to make that tough call in order to get these -- all these individuals, not just
the Americans, all of them released.
In the end, Brett, when you weigh it, yes, these are all criminals on the Russian side and yes, they are all innocent on the West side. But in the
balance, I think we could all agree that it's better to have innocent people no longer rotting in Russian prisons for the rest of their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And have a listen to Trevor Reed, of course, the former U.S. Marine who was wrongfully detained in Russia for nearly three years. Stand
by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TREVOR REED, U.S. MARINE VETERAN FREED FROM RUSSIA IN 2022: Well, you shouldn't let these guys go to get Americans back is frankly pretty
ridiculous. Every president that we have in the United States pardons dozens to hundreds of Americans who have been convicted in U.S. courts and
they released them without the United States receiving anything in exchange.
And to release a few Russian criminals to get innocent Americans home I think is absolutely worth it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Yes, and I'll give you a chance to respond to those arguments.
SEELY: Becky, there's a really -- you know, there's a hugely powerful arguments and above all, they are very emotional arguments because if you -
- if I was rotting in a Russian prison and I was innocent, I would absolutely want my government and Western governments to be helping to get
me out. So I'm not arguing against that. And I think it is a real -- I find it very frustrating when our own Foreign Office was saying to me, Bob, we
don't negotiate.
You know, we're not doing anything. We can't do anything over Navalny and we're very limited on what we can do over Vladimir Kara-Murza. We talked to
the Americans about it for sure. We'll try to get him in the big U.S. swap that might be happening. So they were saying this to me. I find it -- I
find that from an emotional point of view very frustrating, but I knew if I was a diplomat, I know that if I start negotiating to get everyone out, who
foreign powers see state hostage-taking, then you simply make that problem worse.
And you're going to get more Westerners in Russian, in Iranian, in Chinese prisons, not fewer. So this is not -- this is a significant conundrum and
I'm not pretending otherwise. And I'm really happy for every single person, especially the Kara-Murzas. What I'm saying is that this may come at a
higher price further down the line because there's -- Putin knows that if he gets somebody powerful, one of his spies who he needs to get back out,
he knows there's a very simple answer which is he just arrests somebody on the streets of Moscow, a Brit or a German or an American.
And this just plays out again and it gives him and his people a certain level of impunity when they're running around committing acts of
assassination, sabotage, which is on the increase, major fraud, which has been what's happening, what was happening in the United States, or when
there's people attacking your Democrat or Republican servers and trying to cause chaos in the U.S. political system.
[10:35:15]
ANDERSON: Fascinating. It's good to have you, sir. Your insight and analysis important on what is a really important story. Thank you.
Israel bracing for retaliation promised by Iran, by Hamas and by Hezbollah after the assassination of a series of Israel's enemies as the war in Gaza
claims more Palestinian lives daily, and hopes for a ceasefire, frankly, grow dimmer.
It is rare to hear from Israeli soldiers about the horrors that they have witnessed. One of the few speaking out is Yuval Green, an IDF medic, who
publicly refused further service. He spoke to one of my colleagues here at CNN. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: You said that a commander told your unit to burn the house that you were stationed in and it was after that you decided
not to come back to duty.
YUVAL GREEN, FORMER IDF PARATROOPER: The extent of damage I've seen in Gaza is just beyond every imagination. You can't imagine it. Cities that are
completely ruined and at some point my commander told my platoon to burn down the house we're staying at and I went to him. I approached him and I
asked him, why are we doing that, and he gave me a few reasons. And I think those reasons were just not strong enough. And they were, you know,
military type of reasons, but they came along the revenge type of reasons.
Now I think this is just what's going on in Gaza. Israel is doing things because it needs to fulfill a type of military purpose. But it all mixes up
with our need for or the Israeli need for revenge. And I said, I'm not willing to participate in that. I'm not destroying a house that belonged to
a few families that would become homeless because of that. And I'm leaving. And I just left on the next -- with the next car that went out.
GOLODRYGA: You made similar claims in statements and accusations against the IDF in your commanders and superiors in an interview with ABC News, and
then the IDF in response, said, quote, its actions are based on military necessity and in accordance to international law. There was no IDF doctrine
that aims at causing maximal damage to civilian infrastructure regardless of military necessity.
Defacing homes with graffiti and stealing household personal objects is against the IDF's code of conduct and values. The IDF has acted and
continues to act to identify unusual cases that deviate from what is expected of IDF soldiers.
What do you make of those statements and the fact that the IDF states that anyone who commits these acts will face prosecution?
GREEN: I do think that the IDF, you know, the IDF is against, if you'll look at things from above, and the, you know, the superior commanders of
the IDF, I think they do believe that this shouldn't happen, looting or graffiti. But I don't think it has the resources to stop it. And I think,
you know, it all comes down to the soldiers at the field. You can't stop any soldier from doing things.
And I think that's what I said about, you know, the mix-up of the military and revenge type of purposes. If a soldier is telling you or trying to
explain something with military reasons that some things are true, and I've seen it many times in which in cases that that was true. It's very
difficult to unprove it. And I could tell you 100 percent that we've destroyed houses at least for reasons that we're just not -- we don't care
enough about the lives of Palestinians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: CNN has asked the IDF to comment on Green's allegations. Not yet received a response. You can watch the full interview with Yuval Green at
Amanpour.com.
We will be back with more news after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:41:15]
ANDERSON: Well, some one million people who are members of the Rohingya ethnic minority currently live in a refugee camp in the Cox's Bazar region
of Bangladesh. And amongst them a small percentage identify as transsexual, intersex and non-binary.
Well, CNN investigation uncovered rampant rape and sexual assault endured by members of this group. They tell us about it in their own words as part
of what is our "As Equals" series. And I have to warn you the language in this report you may find disturbing and graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA, ROHINGYA HIJRA (through text translation): I have been raped so many times that I've lost count.
JAMILA, ROHINGYA HIJRA (through text translation): All the hijra people like us are getting harassed daily, and we are in pain.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Salma and Jamila are hijras, a cultural identity in South Asia involving trans, intersex and
non-binary people. They are also Rohingya, a Muslim ethnic minority from Burma who have fled waves killing by the Burmese military to now live in
Cox's Bazar refugee camps in Bangladesh.
JONAKI, ROHINGYA HIJRA (through text translation): I'm not able to go to my friends' places because children throws stones at us and break our houses.
LAILA, ROHINGYA REFUGEE (through text translation): They knock on the door and we must open the door for them. As soon as they enter, they say, where
is your hijra guy?
ABDELAZIZ: CNN spoke to many hijras who chose to open up, some for the first time, about the transphobic abuse they faced within the camps. Their
names have been changed to protect their identities.
LAILA, ROHINGYA HIJRA (through text translation): They cut my hair and asked why, despite being a man, I was acting like a woman by keeping it
long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): When I used to get out at night, men would tie up my mouth and take me to a dark place. One man would
tie up my hands and another would tie up my legs.
ABDELAZIZ: The people CNN spoke to say attacks are led by a range of insurgent and criminal groups operating inside the camps who sometimes
kidnap them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): They would call, friend, friend. I got out of my house, as soon as I did they tied up my mouth. They
took me to the abandoned house to rape me there.
ABDELAZIZ: To protect themselves, many hijras live in hiding and dressed in men's clothes during the day. At night, they often earn an income
performing at weddings and parties. But in the following account, the people interviewed say they were lured outside the camp on false pretenses
and ambushed by a group of men.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): My friend I were taken to the hill along with three to four other hijra people like me. They said they
will pay four of us $45 to dance at a wedding but there none.
ABDELAZIZ: A Rohingya man had called them, giving instructions to exit the camp through barbed wire leading to paddy fields.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): The moment we set foot in that area we were suddenly attacked. There were 10 to 15 attackers,. They
were beating us so badly.
LAILA (through text translation): They tore our dresses and some of them blindfolded us. They tied our hands and made us lean towards the ground.
They were saying, no, you do it first. Let me do it first. One of them was moving a machete on my body and another man was holding a gun on my
stomach. He flipped my body. Like this. I was raped seven times. I begged death from God. Why are they torturing me like that?
ABDELAZIZ: That night Laila said the perpetrators went even further, raping her with a knife handle.
LAILA (through text translation): I could not even walk. It was bleeding. I could not walk for six months. I used to faint a lot. I was in pain.
[10:45:04]
ABDELAZIZ: The abuse continued all night. According to Salma, some of the men spoke Bangla, suggesting that some attacks are coordinated with groups
outside the camps.
One of the largest in the world, the Kutupalong camps are under the authority of the Bangladeshi government and run together with the support
of the U.N.'s High Commissioner for Refugees. People interviewed said they reported their various concerns to the camp's authorities but no action was
taken.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): We want to complain to the head in the camps. Although we complained they did not do anything and
said, who would bring justice people like you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): I did not share it with anyone. Who shall I share it with? There is no one to understand us. We
only share our pain to fellow hijra friends. Normal people don't understand us.
ABDELAZIZ: There are very few organizations where Rohingya hijras complained Cox's Bazar, which we are not naming due to security concerns.
This is one of the places where they can meet each other and receive health support as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): I love seeing my hijra friends and I want to dance with them.
ABDELAZIZ: Yet the hijra we interviewed also alleged being sexually harassed by a member of staff there. CNN did not hear of any other
allegations and the organization said they would take action if anyone made a complaint. Still, for most hijras, this place gives them a rare
opportunity to be themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): I don't feel pain if friends are around. When I talk to them I forget my pain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): I want to live peacefully. My heart wants different things. I want to get a job, take care of my family,
be happy. My heart wants that.
GRAPHIC: U.N.-HCR told CNN it is deeply committed to the protection of all people forced to flee in search of safety, regardless of sex, gender or any
other demographic characteristic. The Bangladesh government's Refugee Relief and Repatriation Commission's office (RRRC) never responded to CNN's
request for comment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Let's get you some news from the Paris Olympics where two of American superstars dominated on Thursday. Simone Biles, the most decorated
gymnast ever, added another medal to what is a growing collection, snagging gold in the women's individual all-around final. Her sixth gold medal to
date.
And in then swimming, Katie Ledecky made history again. Her silver medal in the women's four by 200 meters freestyle relay made her the most decorated
female U.S. Olympian of all time.
CNN sports anchor Coy Wire is in Paris with more.
I mean, I actually listened to the swimming on the radio in the car as I was driving home. And it was as exciting on the radio as it would have been
watching for real. I mean, what a day. What another great day particularly for Team USA at the Olympics?
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, all those people on the roadways are probably wondering who is that woman cheering out the window. These women
are amazing. They're stacking up medals. They're going to need a big old Louis Vuitton. I don't think they make one big enough to carry all these
medals.
With Biles, with this last one, winning that gold in the all-around, Becky, the sixth of her career, her gold that you mentioned. That's more than any
American gymnast ever. This was the first ever Olympic final also where two former all-around champs were battling it out along with her teammate Suni
Lee. Suni took the bronze. Rebecca Andrade of Brazil took the silver.
[10:50:04]
Simone now has five moves named after her, Becky, because nobody else will really even try them. The greatest of all time has a shot at three more
golds here in Paris.
Now, also stacking the medals as you mentioned, Katie Ledecky. Now Australia, they continue their dominance in the pool by winning the 200-
meter freestyle relay. But with the U.S.' silver Katie Ledecky is now the most was decorated female American of all time, 13 in all. She's already
won three medals here in Paris with a chance at more to come.
It's going to be really exciting to see how many more -- how much more hardware these women are going to be taking home here from these games.
ANDERSON: Yes, I'm looking forward to the swimming again today. I mean, we've got the GB team. I think there are three races in about 15 or 20
minutes, which they stand a chance in. I'm showing my parties and ship here. And of course you got the athletics coming up this weekend, which is
fantastic.
Look, I want to turn to a story that is getting a lot of attention, particularly on social and online. It involves the women's boxing event,
Coy. Just explain what happened and where the controversy lies, if you will?
WIRE: Yes, for those who may not know or maybe you have seen it on social media, lots of posts saying men should not be competing against women, but
according to the IOC, those types of posts are very much misleading.
So you have this situation here where Imane Khelif of Algeria and Lin Yu- ting of Taiwan, they are receiving massive scrutiny for even being here in Paris. Khelif won silver at the 2022 IBA Worlds, but was disqualified from
last year's championship before her gold medal match because the then governing body, the IBA, ruled that she had failed an unspecified gender
eligibility test.
Now Khelif, she won her bout here Thursday after opponent conceded just 45 seconds in. Now, Lin won IBA Worlds in 2018 and 2022 but the then governing
body stripped her of her bronze medal last year claiming she failed to meet unspecified eligibility requirements in a biochemical test.
So the IOC, though, Becky, is defending these boxers' rights to be here. They said, quote, "Not a transgender issue," insisting that both women have
complied with the rules in place and that they are victims of a sudden and arbitrary decision by the IBA. The IBA was suspended. They haven't been
recognized by the IOC since 2023.
Now, Lin won her first match here, just this morning in Paris, just a bit ago. Khelif will return to the canvas on Saturday, but Becky, it's become,
you know, a really uncomfortable situation for these women. They even have to have heightened security now go with them and be around them when they
are competing here at these Paris games.
ANDERSON: Certainly this week been suggesting get an awful lot of attention both online and on social, of course, around the world. Thank you very much
in these.
Good to have you, Coy.
WIRE: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Well, the world has come together, of course, for the Olympics amid, it has to be said, escalating global conflict and political turmoil.
There is one team, however, made up of athletes from all around the world and that is the Olympic Refugee Team, a group of 37 athletes selected by
the IOC and the UNHCR and hosted by 15 national Olympic committees to compete on that world stage.
The UNHCR's refugee chief, Filippo Grandi, was honored in Paris with the prestigious Olympic Laurel, and he told me just how this IOC initiative in
partnership with his agency helps refugees well beyond what we are seeing in Paris and the team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FILIPPO GRANDI, UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES: The IOC has launched an Olympic Refugee Foundation of which UNHCR is also part. And
through that foundation projects all over the world in refugee settings are run that really promote sport as a moment of inclusion. For me, that's the
key word, inclusion, inclusion, services, inclusion in communities, and also giving people such a sense of identity.
You know, I always say refugees are people that have often lost everything. Not only their homes and jobs and friends, but also their identity, their
sense of belonging, and sport is formidable from that point of view. That's why we're really using it more and more as a tool for inclusion. And we
talk always about protection or refugee inclusion is the best protection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And Filippo Grandi's message to me from Paris was one of hope and optimism from a man who so often is grappling with some of the world's
biggest challenges. Finally, I want you to hear how he felt when he saw that refugee team members make their debut in Paris. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRANDI: Yes, Becky, I am proud, unbelievably proud,. When that boat sailed on the Seine on Friday night, second one, that's just the second team to
parade after Greece, which is always the first one, my god, I felt so proud.
[10:55:11]
So proud not only for the 37 refugees who were on the boat, but for all the others that I do hope were watching them, were proud for them, were
absorbing hope and energy from that team and for all my colleagues and all those who help the refugees as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Filippo Grandi speaking to me from Paris earlier this week.
Well, that is it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Let's have a quick look at the markets for you. It's a bit of a missy day, I'm afraid. The Dow Jones
Industrial Average down over 2 percent. A jobs report really giving investors the wobbles. Fewer than expected jobs created last month and that
is worrying investors about where this U.S. economy is headed and how quickly. Everybody has been wanting it to slow down slightly. But is it
slowing too quickly at this point?
The Fed is keeping a very keen eye I know on these numbers. More on that of course over the hours. The losses are mounting. CNN will continue to
monitor right through the closing bell this Friday.
That's it from us here in London with the team working with me here and those working with us around the world. It is a very good evening. We will
see you same place, same time Monday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
