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Connect the World
Lebanon Pager Attack; U.S. Secretary of State Urges "All Parties" Not to Escalate Conflict; Gold Apollo Denies Making Pagers Used in Lebanon; Sean Combs to Appeal Bail Denial; Springfield's Haitian Community Speaks; Joint Operation by Mossad and IDF; New Walkie-Talkie Explosions in Lebanon. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired September 18, 2024 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND U.S. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to the second hour of CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Erica Hill in New York.
"Terrorism and genocide," That is how Iran is responding to Tuesday's pager attack across Lebanon, which targeted the Iran-backed militia, Hezbollah.
Hospitals in Lebanon scrambling to treat the thousands who were injured when pagers all exploded at the same moment. Twelve were killed.
CNN has learned the attack itself was a joint operation between Israeli intelligence agency Mossad and the IDF, although neither group is
commenting at this point. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Beirut and just spoke with Lebanon's health minister after he visited the main hospitals now
treating those wounded in the attack.
Here's part of their conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. FIRASS ABIAD, LEBANESE HEALTH MINISTER: It's indeed, it's a very tough event. If you look at the numbers that we had to deal with, almost
(INAUDIBLE) casualties. And you know, the different things between this and the port explosion is that we have -- two-thirds of the casualties or of
the wounds were medium or more.
And over two-thirds of the patients required admission to the hospital. So indeed it was, I think it put a lot of strain on the hospitals last night.
The only way I could characterize it is that, indeed, it was a sort of a mess, I guess. And it's clearly an escalation.
Now where will that lead?
We are unfortunately more away from the diplomatic solution that some of the countries have been trying to forge between the different parties. And
unfortunately, it's clearly this is a stepping down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(INAUDIBLE) of course, from the Lebanese health minister. Ben also filed this report from us from outside one of those hospitals.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Almost 200 people injured in the pager blast that occurred Tuesday afternoon were treated
here at the American University of Beirut Medical Center.
Where the chief medical officer told us that, even though there were women and children among the injured, the vast majority were young men.
Thousands of people were injured in the apparently simultaneous pager blast that took place at about 3:30 in the afternoon Tuesday, in areas where
Hezbollah has a strong presence.
Here outside the hospital, friends and relatives of those injured are waiting for news. Not surprisingly, most do not want to appear on camera.
But off camera, one told us for instance that a friend of his received a message on his pager. He picked it up, looked at it and it exploded in his
face, damaging his eyes and his fingers.
Another individual, who said he was a supporter of Hezbollah, told us that, despite these injuries, morale within the group is still high and that
those who were injured will soon return to the front.
Now, Thursday afternoon, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah is expected to comment on the events of Tuesday. But on Wednesday morning, Hezbollah put
out a statement, saying that there would be hard atonement awaiting to the so-called criminal enemy that was behind what they described as Tuesday's
massacre.
I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: My colleague, Jeremy Diamond, is in Tel Aviv.
Jeremy, you have some reporting on Israel's role here.
What are we hearing, though, from Israel?
I would imagine that much at this hour.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes. No confirmation from the Israeli government, no comment from the Israeli military or the Mossad
about this operation.
But I am told that this was indeed an operation that was carried out not only by the Israel's intelligence service, the Mossad, but also by the
Israeli military. And it was a very sophisticated and a very extensive operation at that.
Not only, of course, because of the scale of the destruction as we have seen, at least 2,800 people were injured in these attacks of which, about
300 people remain in critical condition, according to the Lebanese health ministry.
At least 12 people have now been killed, including two children as well. And this required quite a lot of planning, quite a lot of covert operations
on Israel's part to actually get this operation in place.
[10:05:00]
And that is because "The New York Times" is reporting that, explosives, a small amount of explosives was planted in thousands of these pagers that
are manufactured by a Taiwanese company.
That company now saying that this specific model of pager was actually subcontracted and manufactured by a company in Hungary.
So still looking for more details into exactly at which point in the supply chain process here were Israeli agents actually able to plant this amount
of explosives in thousands of these pagers, which were then imported into Lebanon, distributed by Hezbollah to it its members.
And then ultimately detonated simultaneously, as it appears, that thousands of these pagers received a message at the same time, prompting many of
these Hezbollah members who had these pagers to pick up those pagers, look at them.
And at that point, they exploded, which is why we are seeing that a number of the injuries here involve injuries to the head, to the eyes in
particular as well as injuries to the abdomen and to the groin as a result of some of those pagers being in people's pockets.
But clearly a very extensive attack and one that is now raising questions about what it will mean for this region that has been on edge for so long.
Of course, we have seen Hezbollah and Israel trading fire across the Israel-Lebanon border for nearly a year now.
And we have seen at various points as we have believed that we might be close to an all-out war between those two sides. The last time we were as
close as we are now to that all-out war was in late July, when Israel assassinated a senior Hezbollah commander.
Ultimately, Hezbollah, despite its vows of retaliation, took four weeks to actually deliver that retaliation, the form of some 300 rockets and drones,
nearly all of which were intercepted by the Israeli military.
And so now the question is, what will help Hezbollah do in retaliation here?
They are already vowing that there will be a severe response. Whether or not it is something more severe than we saw as a result of that
assassination or -- and whether or not Israel is able to intercept that attack as successfully, still remains to be seen.
HILL: What, what are people on the ground saying, right?
What, what are you seeing in Israeli media?
And when you're speaking to people today in terms of their reaction to this attack?
DIAMOND: Well, there's no question that people have been through this cycle here before. There have been various points over the course of the
last year when it appeared that tensions were at a boiling point and an all-out war might indeed be in the offing.
And so we have seen once again, as I was conducting yesterday, a totally unrelated interview with somebody who has family in the north. They were
speaking to their relatives, beginning to make preparations for whether or not they should evacuate further south, as so many tens of thousands of
Israelis have already had to do.
And so we are once again at that point. We have not seen any changes in the home front command guidelines. What we have seen, however, is the beginning
of the mobilization of Israeli troops heading to the north.
The 98th Division being diverted from the Israeli front in Gaza, being sent to the northern front with Lebanon instead, as Israeli generals, military
officials and politicians begin to speak again about the possibility of the drums of war being sounded here and things escalating once again.
HILL: Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv at this hour. Thank you.
The unprecedented attack is adding, as Jeremy just noted, to the already heightened fears of a wider war. And it also comes on the heels of Israel's
defense minister telling a visiting U.S. envoy that the time for diplomacy with Hezbollah has actually passed.
Hezbollah has vowed to retaliate, as you know. But as Jeremy also pointed out, when that may happen, unclear. The group has said in the past, it
would stop attacking Israel if Israel ended the war in Gaza.
All of this unfolding, of course, as the U.S. secretary of state, Antony Blinken, is back in the Middle East, still trying, along with allies in the
region, to forge a diplomatic solution to end that conflict and to secure a hostage release.
Here's what he had to say about the pager attack when addressing reporters in Cairo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: With regard to Lebanon, the United States did not know about nor was it involved in these incidents.
And we're still gathering the information and gathering the facts.
Broadly speaking, we've been very clear and we remain very clear about the importance of all parties avoiding any steps that could further escalate
the conflict that we're trying to resolve in Gaza, to see it spread to other fronts.
It's clearly not in the interest of anyone involved to see that happen. And that's why, again, it's imperative that all parties to refrain from any
actions that could escalate the conflict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Kylie Atwood joining us now from Cairo as well.
[10:10:00]
So, Kylie, almost a two-part question for you.
Secretary Blinken, noting that the U.S. didn't know about this, that they didn't have any prior information, is there anything to read in there in
terms of the U.S.-Israeli relationship?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, I think it is noteworthy that U.S. officials who were on the secretary of state's
plane, were learning about this incident, this attack on these Hezbollah pagers in Lebanon as we were flying to the region here in Egypt.
Now the secretary of state is just visiting Egypt on this visit to the region. He isn't going to Israel. This is the first time that he's in the
region and not visiting Israel since October 7th. So that gives you a little bit of context of just how this is unfolding here.
But Erica, it's important to note that U.S. officials are making it very clear that they were not involved in these incidents that occurred. And the
secretary of state, however, said that the U.S. is really in a fact-finding mission right now.
He told me that it's too early to assess the damage that this could have on the operations of Hezbollah. The U.S. will watch and see what they can
learn about that. But the backdrop here is also that the U.S. has continued to push for the cease-fire, continued to push for this hostage release
deal. It has not yet come to fruition.
And the secretary of state was very clear today, speaking here in Cairo, saying that it will require political will from both sides in order to get
it done, sort of trying to shift the blame.
Shift the focus away from those who haven't been involved in these negotiations, the U.S., Egypt and Qatar, and really focusing in on those
who are central to making these negotiations actually come to fruition.
That's Israel and that's Hamas. The U.S. being very clear that, at this moment in time, there's no deal that could come to fruition without the
political will, in the words of the secretary of state, of both of those sides.
And of course, there are concerns among U.S. officials that an incident like this could further escalate things, could drive this into a regional
conflict, which they have been desperately trying to avoid for months now.
HILL: Absolutely. Kylie, appreciate it. Thank you.
Well, there was a time when a news company that is now under heavy scrutiny today in the wake of that deadly pager attack in Lebanon, Gold Apollo,
whose brand name was on the exploding pagers, denies making these pagers.
The company telling CNN they were in fact made by a European partner based in Hungary, which had the right to use that Gold Apollo brand name. CNN's
Anna Stewart following this part of the story for us, joining us live.
So the company said, look, they didn't make them. They had basically licensed the name out to another company in Hungary to do so.
What more do we know those specifically about these pagers and ultimately how they got to Hezbollah?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have been working really hard to try and find out exactly where these pagers were made, who made them and to
try and figure out whether there was any sort of modification in that supply chain.
So far as you said, we know that the brand that you see in the pictures is Gold Apollo. That is a not particularly well-known Taiwanese company. And
we did see lots of reporters asking questions from this company since yesterday.
And here's the response from the founder of Gold Apollo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HSU CHING-KUANG, FOUNDER, GOLD APOLLO (through translator): None of the components in that product belong to us. Nothing was exported by us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: He also said he felt like a victim and had been going about his business around 30 years and suddenly finds himself roped into this huge
story. He said, as you mentioned, that he had also outsourced some of the business, outsourced the manufacturing and licensed the name to a company
called BAC Consulting in Hungary.
Now this is where it gets a bit confusing. CNN had sent a journalist to the business address of BAC Consulting. It appears to be a small office in a
residential area. It doesn't look to be a place for manufacturing tech devices or pagers.
So at this stage, there are still lots and lots of question marks as to where these pagers were made and who made them.
HILL: There are also questions about ultimately how this attack was carried out and how, in fact, the pagers were detonated. There's tampering
and there's hacking, very different things when we're talking about electronics.
And frankly, the capabilities of a pager versus how you can access a cell phone.
STEWART: Absolutely. And lots of people, I think yesterday, immediately jumped the theory that this was to do with lithium ion batteries because,
as we all know, those can cause small fires, it's one of the reasons that, if you check in for a flight, the airline will ask you, have you checked in
to your baggage any lithium ion batteries?
This was a coordinated, sophisticated attack. The explosions all happened at the same time. So then it leads you to believe, was this a situation
where the device was tampered with prior or after shipping?
We've spoken to lots of cybersecurity experts in the last day. The CIA predictor lab says it's more likely in this case.
[10:15:00]
Given how safe this -- sorry; how sophisticated the attack was; it was modified before shipping. But as I say, so many question marks in this
story. But I think one thing to be sure is that people that have lithium ion batteries shouldn't go into a panic at this stage.
HILL: Yes, that is an important one. Anna, appreciate it. Thank you.
Just ahead here, claiming innocence, Sean "Diddy" Combs will be back in court today, asking to be released on bail after spending his first night
behind bars on federal charges.
Plus ground zero right now, when it comes to immigration and politics, CNN is on the ground in Springfield, Ohio, where people are trying to get on
with their daily lives, despite the fear and the tension being stoked by false rumors about migrants.
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HILL: Happening today, Sean "Diddy" Combs set to appear in court. That's happening just a few hours from now, to fight a judge's decision to hold
him without bail.
This coming just a day after the music mogul was in court to plead not guilty to federal charges, very serious charges: racketeering, conspiracy,
sex trafficking, transportation to engage in prostitution.
Combs' attorney had asked the court to release him on bond and place him on home detention. But instead, he was sent to a federal detention center in
Brooklyn, where he spent the night. And he will remain there in custody if, in fact, he loses this appeal today. CNN's Kara Scannell following all of
these developments for us from New York.
And it's important to note for folks who may not be familiar with some of these charges and the indictment itself, what is alleged in that
indictment, incredibly serious and disturbing.
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Erica, and what prosecutors allege is that, for years, Sean "Diddy" Combs was engaged in sex
trafficking, which they describe through some of these events that Combs himself had referred to as freakoffs.
These were drug-fueled sex parties, where Combs and his partners, girlfriends at the time, would then have sex with a male prostitute. And
it's through that that prosecutors say that Combs had drugged these women, had kept them -- he kept control over them and that these parties continued
often for several days.
Combs has denied this. He's pleaded not guilty. But that's the reason why prosecutors say he could not -- he should not be released on bail, that he
is a danger to the community.
When they searched his homes in Los Angeles and Miami earlier this year, they found a cache of weapons, AR-15s, in Combs' closet, his bedroom closet
in one of the properties.
They also say his access to millions of dollars in cash through numerous bank accounts, including the $1 million of cash that he is readily
accessible, they say that a number of the witnesses they've spoken to all express universally fear of him because these allegations are serious.
Not only was it the sexual abuse but they said that he also physically abused many of these women, dragging them, kicking them, beating them up
and often these rages would come on spontaneously.
[10:20:00]
That's one of the reasons why the magistrate judge yesterday denied Combs bail, saying she couldn't come up with any conditions that made her
comfortable, in part, because the crimes he's alleged of committing all happened behind closed doors.
So even if there was some kind of pretrial services monitoring, she wasn't comfortable that that would prevent him from abusing women. Now it comes as
his attorney has just sent a letter to the judge, who is at today's hearing. This hearing is before the judge who will oversee the trial.
Combs' lawyer saying that they have a new bail proposal. They want to restrict all female visitors except family members to his home, saying that
they would restrict any visitors who aren't friends, family or caretakers at his properties from coming to the homes.
That would Combs would submit to weekly drug testing and that they would submit a visitors' log every day to pretrial services. Now, whether that's
enough to satisfy prosecutors is unlikely.
And it will be up to the judge who will oversee this trial to decide if he is comfortable with any of these terms in order to release Combs on bail or
if he decides, again, to keep him behind bars until his trial, Erica.
HILL: Kara, appreciate it. Thank you.
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HILL: Democrats have been hammering the Trump campaign for pushing the debunked conspiracy theory, that Haitian immigrants in Ohio are eating
pets. During a campaign stop in North Carolina, Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Walz blasting his opponent, JD Vance, who has
defended pushing that false claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He got called out by a fair and free press that are a part of our democracy and fundamental to the
freedoms of this country.
They asked him if maybe it was an accident or he didn't mean it.
No. He said, I admit it. I'm willing to create stories to spread fear, to drum up support for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: CNN's Omar Jimenez has been spending time in that Ohio city of Springfield, meeting the Haitian community. He took us inside what life is
like now for them in the wake of these debunked conspiracy stories. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The sun hasn't even come up yet. It's about 4:30 in the morning. And we're about to jump in this van here that
essentially goes around and picks up Haitian immigrants who don't have transportation for themselves and it gets them to job opportunities
throughout the wider Springfield area.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): One after another, Haitian workers piled in on their way to their factory job in a nearby town.
JIMENEZ: This will be our seventh pickup. We pull up. They're sitting on the porch ready to go.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): The company that organizes these vans says the demand for workers is high. Many just don't have a way to get to work. The
president estimates most of their business comes from Haitian immigrants.
COREY WORDEN, PRESIDENT, JOB TALENT CONNECTING STAFFING: At this point, we are probably a 60-40, split. They add a great benefit to our workforce.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): These hopeful workers showed up just as the doors opened, Tuesday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When would he like to start to work?
JIMENEZ: (Speaking foreign language).
He says today.
WORDEN: We're averaging 18 to 25 people a day.
JIMENEZ: And that's people looking for new jobs.
WORDEN: Yes, people that are actively looking for employment.
VILBRUN DORSAINVIL, HAITIAN IMMIGRANT AND SPRINGFIELD RESIDENT: We leave Haiti because of the chaos.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Vilbrun Dorsainvil was a doctor in Haiti. He says he fled because he was going to be kidnapped. He's been in Springfield now a
little over three years but he had to leave his fiancee and young daughter back home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to deal with it. You know, it's still very hard.
JIMENEZ: How old is she?
DORSAINVIL: She's three.5 right now.
JIMENEZ: Yes. So she would have been just born right as you were leaving?
DORSAINVIL: Not even yet born. Not even yet.
JIMENEZ: So you haven't met your daughter yet?
DORSAINVIL: Oh, I haven't. We just talked through video call. I didn't want to leave to tell you the truth, so I had no choice.
JIMENEZ: It was either -- it was either your life or getting to see the birth of your daughter.
DORSAINVIL: Yes.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): His doctor credentials also didn't carry over. So for now, he's studying to be a registered nurse. Recently, though his
schooling has been virtual because of initially believed threats of violence.
Also elementary schools and government buildings were evacuated in recent days, along with an annual festival celebrating diversity, canceled.
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): These threats have all been hoaxes. We have people, unfortunately overseas, who are taking these actions.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): As a precaution, though, the Governor announced nearly 40 state patrol troopers will be stationed throughout the school
district to sweep each building for threats and stay on site for security.
It comes in the middle of what's been a surge in Haitian population to the roughly 59,000 in Springfield, which had been declining in population. The
city now estimates 12 to 15,000 immigrants, many, if not most of them Haitians call Springfield home.
DORSAINVIL: We are hard worker and we are paying a lot of taxes.
[10:25:00]
JIMENEZ: Yes, yes. All to try and make Springfield better.
DORSAINVIL: Better.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): And while the influx has boosted the local economy, city officials say, it's also strained resources.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are getting really fed up.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): It's been a major topic of conversation.
MIGUELITO JEROME, EXECUTIVE MANAGER, NEW DIASPORA LIVE RADIO: Where we feel like people are acting based on fear, panicking. And the Haitian
community itself, it's confusion.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Including around opportunities.
GYASI JONES, SPRINGFIELD RESIDENT: With those jobs being open, you know, whose job this is to take?
It's an open job.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): The added tensions in recent days, though, has taken a toll.
DORSAINVIL: I was feeling a little bit down. I feel better right now. My teachers, coworkers, friends, they reach out to me somehow, asking me, how
are you holding up?
OK?
We love you. We need you here.
JIMENEZ: You still see Springfield as a beautiful place?
DORSAINVIL: It is.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): He balances his new life with his old one, dreaming of uniting them both.
DORSAINVIL: Sometimes they call me and there is a lot of shooting in the neighborhood. The best way to get them right here in the United States,
it's through the school process, because after graduation, you can, like apply to get a green card through this, I can get them.
JIMENEZ: Now even outside of the recent politics I mentioned, we're seeing strains on resources here. And that has been pretty prevalent in various
aspects.
For example, the State of Ohio announced new resources for primary health care because they say some of those arriving may have not had the best
health care to that point.
Also, the state announced more state patrol to help support local law enforcement for an increase in dangerous driving conditions, which the
state attributes to inexperienced Haitian drivers and all others who disregard the law.
So the tensions and pressure points within this community are there. And they've been there well before, again, the recent spotlight that the city
has been put in.
But as the city has made clear, this isn't a situation where Haitians are being forced to come here, based on even just the ones we've spoken to.
They say they heard from other previous Haitians that came here, that this was a great place to live. So they decided to come here, too -- Omar
Jimenez, CNN, Springfield, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Still to come here on CONNECT THE WORLD, how was this vast pager attack carried out across Lebanon?
And why now?
We'll take a closer look at what we know about these deadly pager explosions.
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HILL: Thanks for joining us here on CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Erica Hill in for Becky Anderson today.
Our top story this hour.
[10:30:00]
New questions swirling in the aftermath of hundreds of coordinated explosions across Lebanon. Of course, this compromised Hezbollah's
communications network and had a deadly effect.
The pagers exploding, of course, are what we're talking about. Israel's military, not commenting publicly on those explosions. CNN has learned,
however, that the attack itself was a joint operation between the Israeli military and Israel's intelligence service, Mossad.
Hezbollah has previously said, once the war in Gaza is over, then Hezbollah will stop firing at Israel. Now, though, it is vowing to retaliate for this
attack on the pagers. And when we look at the prospects of a deal to a ceasefire in Gaza and hostage release, well, it's looking bleak at this
point.
Every day a deal is not signed, new struggles are added to get that done. And also for those displaced civilians in Gaza, there's a continuing threat
of airstrikes, hunger, constant uncertainty.
For some families who've been seeking shelter as well on Gaza's beaches, the rising tide taking a toll, destroying many of their makeshift homes.
Here's CNN's Schams Elwazer reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (from captions): The sea water filled our tent while we were asleep at night. We moved further so we don't drown more.
I'm digging a hole to put the wooden piece inside and fix the tent.
SCHAMS ELWAZER, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIRECTOR OF COVERAGE (voice-over): Pitching tents on the beach as their last attempt at safety from the war,
8-year-old Razai (ph) and other families like hers are fighting against high tide, wind and the oncoming cold of winter in their makeshift homes.
These are just some of the families displaced to the shore west of the city of Khan Younis, a target of many Israeli attacks.
Almost the entire population of Gaza has been forced to flee their homes in the war.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (from captions): I wish we could go back home instead of facing this humiliation. When the sea water came towards us, I couldn't
do anything.
I hear that winter will bring so much water that it might drown us.
ELWAZER: Some families are digging sand walls to protect themselves from the rising tides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): Winter is approaching. It's not about us. We can endure the cold and even death. We are prepared. But it is too
much for these children.
ELWAZER: The approaching winter is just one of the many daily struggles that these families must now go through as 9-year-old Yasmeen says.
YASMEEN, GAZA RESIDENT (from captions): We are growing up in a very brutal war. We deserve to live our childhood like other children. We have become
like skeletons, carrying water bottles, feeling exhausted.
Before the war, we used to play and live happily. But now we can't live like we used to. This war is still going on. It has destroyed us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: And our thanks again to Schams Elwazer for that report.
We got some breaking news to share with you now. Reports just coming in of more explosions in Lebanon today. This just a day after that far-reaching
pager attack that left 12 dead, injured thousands.
CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh joining me now from London with more.
So new explosions today.
What more do we know, Nick?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, very early stages here. But there are reports of multiple explosions
in different towns around Lebanon.
Now hard to piece them all together here. And remember part of the psychological impact of yesterday's operation was the confusion, the panic
that it showed amongst ordinary Lebanese and indeed the Lebanese militant group, Hezbollah, that appear to have been targeted by those blasts and
pagers.
But early social media videos and some of the early reporting seems to suggest that walkie-talkies have begun to explode around Lebanon. Now we
don't know the volume of this. We don't know the number of individuals impacted yet.
But certainly there are a number of reports on Lebanese state media. And there are, according to Reuters, security sources telling them that some of
these devices have detonated.
Now we are just shy of about 24 hours from the previous set of explosions, which at this stage, are responsible for about 3,000 injuries, 12 deaths
and 460 operations. But it's important to point out what we are going to be looking at here as potentially a strategy.
The pagers were being used as a low tech mechanism for Hezbollah to communicate amongst themselves. That was infiltrated, it seems, by the
Israelis, who haven't (INAUDIBLE) publicly but have been very specific.
CNN learning that their Mossad intelligence agency and military were behind yesterday's pager attack. You would then potentially suggest that a
militant group would reach to another low-tech form of communication to speak amongst themselves as well. And the walkie-talkie would be a clear
choice.
They are very visible amongst Hezbollah members around Lebanon as well.
[10:35:00]
We're potentially looking here at the first low-tech pager being hit and then perhaps when the group reach out toward something they considered
safer, that detonating, too.
But I should point out here, we are in exceptionally early stages here in terms of the frequency of these explosions, how many they indeed have been.
But it is clear from Lebanese state media, we're talking about several here and there are plenty of reports on social media suggesting that walkie-
talkie devices may be behind some of them, indeed detonating.
And that sparks a whole new series of questions as to exactly, if indeed it was these devices, if indeed those devices are associated with the Lebanese
group, Hezbollah, which we don't know at this stage whether or not somehow a second wave of explosions are now targeting that group, Erica.
HILL: And just a couple of questions for you. And my apologies because I know this is all early stages as we're learning. But just picking up on a
couple of things you noted, the fact that it's walkie-talkies, do we know at this hour in any of the reporting whether there are other communications
today that may have been a part of this?
WALSH: No. Look, I mean, at this stage, we are still trying to assess exactly whether it is just walkie-talkies. There are some suggestions
elsewhere that other devices may have been part of this second wave. It is still exceptionally early.
And as I point out, a lot of the psychological impact, indeed possibly the strategy around yesterday's pager explosions was to sow the sort of
misinformation and panic that may now be part of the information emerging from this apparent second wave.
So it's important to try and keep perspective on this. But be in no doubt, Lebanese state media are talking about a number of explosions that seem to
be happening at roughly the same time.
And there are adequate accounts now on social media to suggest that we might be looking at walkie-talkies as being the source of that, which would
suggest, if indeed this plays out the same way, that we might be looking at a second wave of a sophisticated attack.
One indeed, too, that might be waiting until the moment in which the militant group reach for more a low tech way of talking amongst themselves
and then hitting that. But still exceptionally early information here.
But be in no doubt now, this just feeds into the sense of escalation there, possibly a sense of weakness amongst Lebanese and Hezbollah as to how in
control they are of their own safety in these hours.
And look, bear in mind, while it seems like Hezbollah were the target of the operation yesterday, the pagers exploding, civilians were caught up in
this, too. And while it tried to be targeted, it seems, in terms of how the devices were specifically interrupted on their way to Lebanon.
And according to reporting in "The New York Times," had explosives put inside them. There were innocent civilians caught up in this. Two children,
indeed, killed. So bear in mind there are many Lebanese here who will be very worried about what else might happen in the hours ahead.
And indeed, too, many right now, trying to work out what on Earth has been happening in the past hour.
HILL: Yes, absolutely.
I also want to bring in now Firas Maksad from the Middle East Institute, joining us now from Washington, D.C.
Firas, as you, as you look at all of this is playing out. And as Nick -- as Nick points out, right, the confusion, the panic that is ensuing, that
happened on Tuesday. Now continuing on Wednesday, as we're getting these early reports of further explosions.
What does that tell you?
There have been a lot of questions about timing, about the why now of it all.
What is your sense for the timing?
FIRAS MAKSAD, DIRECTOR OF OUTREACH, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Yes. Let's talk about the why now, there's at least two hypotheses out there. One is that
this is very much an opening salvo, a prelude for a much broader war. But that is yet to come.
It is reminiscent for those of us are students of the Middle East, perhaps the preemptive attack Israel carried out in the Six-Day War in '67 or even
if we remember 9/11. I mean, Al Qaeda had a preemptive attack in Afghanistan, killing their adversaries there before going ahead and
conducting the major attacks in New York and D.C.
So those are the kinds of actions that usually are a signal of a broader operation to come and there's certainly a lot of fear both in Lebanon but
also throughout the region and world capitals, that that, in fact, might be the case.
The other option we've seen some reporting in "Al Monitor" and other outlets on that, is that the network that Israel had actually used to
install these improvised explosive devices within these walkie-talkies and pagers was about to be uncovered by Hezbollah. And therefore, they needed
to act.
We won't know but certainly Israel is making all the moves militarily, including today announcing it's moving tens of thousands of troops from
Gaza to its border with Lebanon. It's making all the right moves to convince and warn Hezbollah that it is ready for a broader war.
HILL: So this idea to convince and warn, is there a scenario that you see playing out, where this does actually act as a deterrent?
MAKSAD: Well, yes. Hezbollah and Iran are, in a sense, already very much deterred, maybe not as deterred Israel would like them to be. But we know
that the Iranians and Hezbollah -- the Iranians in particular have a preference for indirect warfare as it relates to Israel.
They are militarily and, now we know also in the intelligence world, inferior to the Israelis.
[10:40:00]
So they rely on a network of proxies and militant groups -- Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthis in Yemen, militias in Syria and Iraq -- to take the
fight to Israel. A thousand cuts rather than any kind of direct knockout blow.
So time and again and, as Israel escalates to establish, and I would argue it already has, escalation dominance, we see Hezbollah and Iran shrinking
back from that all-out war scenario. And arguably that only encourages Israeli prime minister Bibi Netanyahu to push further.
HILL: And, Nick, I should point out all of this playing out, of course, secretary of state Antony Blinken is in the region. He was very clear in
speaking with reporters in Cairo when he arrived, that the U.S. didn't know about this, had not been informed about the attack Tuesday.
But this is also putting a strain on that relationship.
WALSH: Yes. Look, I mean, it's been fairly clear, I think, since the Israelis assassinated the key negotiator of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, in
Tehran, that the government of Benjamin Netanyahu was pursuing its own agenda and perhaps less fast as to what that did to the diplomacy that the
U.S. has invested so much of itself in.
And we have seen in the past week increasingly signs that that diplomacy for the Biden administration at least might be reaching the end of the
road. They are still very fervent in their desire for some kind of ceasefire deal. That's at the heart of all the messaging you hear.
But the phrase, "the need for political will" has kept emerging just, I think recently today from secretary of state Antony Blinken. And that may
just be a subtle probe, not only Benjamin Netanyahu, who many his political fate has been staked in terms of how long this conflict continues.
The day after the war ends is the day, when the reckoning for how October 6th even began for Benjamin Netanyahu. But there're also, too, I think,
many analysts who looked exactly the position Hamas are in; their leader, Yahya Sinwar, as to his fate, too, in the event of some calming of the
conflict suddenly becomes something significantly more complex.
Already, a man hiding under tunnels, it seems, in Gaza at the moment. So a real, I think, sense of frustration as to whether this ceasefire deal could
ever possibly move forward in the current circumstances.
And it's into that that we have these extraordinary scenes in Lebanon injected. The Lebanese group, Hezbollah, have said that their actions in
northern Israel, the rockets they fired, the persistent back and forth they've had with the Israeli army, have been to assist the people of Gaza.
And essentially they've held out the notion that a ceasefire might cause them to fall silent in terms of their actions there as well. But now we
have it seems an Israeli shift in focus toward the north. That clear in their messaging.
And the Israeli defense minister, Yoav Gallant on Monday, suggesting that diplomacy may now be behind him and the military options may be more on the
table.
Whether what we're seeing here, yesterday's explosions and what appear to be a second wave, now are a bid to weaken Hezbollah ahead of a larger
Israeli operation, that's unclear. I think the fact that we're seeing, it seems, a resumption of this sort of tactic suggests that maybe a wider plan
is afoot here.
Or it may just simply be that the strategy all along has been to wait for Hezbollah to shift towards another kind of technology to communicate and
then hit that as well.
But we have to say still trying to work out exactly what the main targets of these blasts has indeed been, what kind of wireless devices, I think, is
a phrase we're hearing a lot here, may have detonated.
Is it just one specific make?
Are there multiple different sources of these blasts?
And indeed, how many blasts have there been as well?
So as I say, the confusion here perhaps part of the strategy to increase, to amplify the panic amongst ordinary Lebanese and also, too, amongst the
militant group, Hezbollah.
HILL: Absolutely. And Nick, as you pointed out rightly, when we first began speaking, when the news of this first broke, the attack that we saw
on Tuesday, a number of civilians, her two children are among the 12 who were killed.
Is there a sense yet today about sort of how widespread the impact of yesterday's attack is on Hezbollah?
WALSH: No, and I think that's one of the outstanding questions in this. We have a death toll of 12. But it isn't clear amongst those 12, how many
of those are Hezbollah members. And indeed, if the 12 encompasses all the dead and injured, including those in the militant group.
They were it seems pretty much the target. It was pagers they were using that were impacted. But I should point out, it's clear that civilians --
two children, according to Lebanese government officials -- also hit, two children killed by them.
So it clearly dragged in, hit, targeted many civilians as well because of the indiscriminate nature of simultaneously detonating thousands of devices
across populated areas.
[10:45:02]
You are simply going to hit people that were not necessarily your military targets and that may have been part or an accepted risk of a strategy like
this.
But today for this to repeat is just going to amplify, I think, the sense of panic amongst ordinary Lebanese. But I believe you have Ben outside a
hospital. I'm sure he'll be hearing more immediate ground truth.
HILL: Indeed we do. And you set that up nicely, Nick, thank you.
I do want to go straight to Ben Wedeman, who is outside a hospital in Beirut.
Ben, the fact that this is happening not just a second day in a row but almost around the same time as what we saw yesterday.
WEDEMAN: It's a bit later than it was yesterday. But what we're seeing is that there're reports of blasts at various locations around Lebanon, in
Beirut in the south and the Bekaa Valley in the eastern part of the country.
Now the official national news agency is describing the explosions taking place with what are called wireless devices. We believe they're talking
about walkie-talkies.
So it does appear that, whereas yesterday the focus of this -- these perhaps thousands of individual blasts was pagers, today it looks like it's
walkie-talkies. So definitely this is deepening the sense of insecurity that was very palpable in the aftermath of yesterday's pager bombings.
And today, we've seen, in addition to thousands of people wounded from yesterday's, now there are more injured. We don't have precise numbers at
this time. It doesn't appear that the wave of bombings today was anything compared to what happened yesterday.
Now we're outside the American University of Beirut Medical Center, where we spoke with the chief medical officer here, who said that as many -- up
to nearly 200 people were treated here, many of them with wounds to the face, to the eyes, the hands and also to the hip.
Because they were basically pulling out these pagers, looking at them and then they were blowing up in their faces. So we've spoken with, for
instance, the minister of health, who told us how difficult it has been for the authorities to deal yesterday with this wave of bombings.
And, today the challenge is still there but obviously there are lots of people outside the hospital. We haven't seen any ambulances arriving here
yet. But there are reports, for instance, of a funeral in -- for one of the people killed yesterday, a funeral in the southern suburbs of Beirut, where
many members of Hezbollah live.
In that instance, eyewitnesses told us that a man lost his arms in a blast there.
HILL: Ben, appreciate the reporting.
Also joining us now, we have Maha Yahya joining the conversation, the director of the Carnegie Middle East Center.
Maha, you are also in Beirut. We've heard reports that explosions could be heard.
I'm just curious, from where you are, have you been able to hear anything?
MAHA YAHYA, DIRECTOR, MALCOLM H. KERR CARNEGIE MIDDLE EAST CENTER: No. I'm not next to the American University of Beirut so I haven't heard the
explosions. But I suspect we'll soon start hearing the ambulance sirens.
This is what happened yesterday. They were going on for hours.
HILL: So sirens going on for hours, just walk us through what it has been like for these last 24 hours. And Nick so rightly pointing out that much of
this leading to confusion, to panic, certainly among people there in Beirut.
Now we're hearing that this -- multiple explosions in different locations today.
How has this played out for residents?
YAHYA: I think people are in shock and horrified at what has happened.
Yesterday Israel turned literally 20th century communication devices into 21st century killing machines. They were detonating all over the place, in
grocery stores, in public spaces, in schools, it didn't matter.
And civilians around were getting injured. Today, it seems it's walkie- talkies and other communication instruments. If it's walkie-talkies, the blasts are probably larger because these are larger devices. This is what
we're hearing right now.
So we're waiting, we're bracing ourselves to see what the second wave is like and whether this is signaling an intention by Israel to first disrupt
Hezbollah's communication network and then to attack Lebanon.
HILL: Whether this may be said, I do want to -- we are just getting some new video again, in, again, as this is a developing story. The information
and the video coming in. I want to play this so we can all watch and listen to it in real time as it just came in. Let's take a look.
[10:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILL (voice-over): So we heard that one blast. We can see there's a moment as people then start to move, to run around and to chant. I want to go back
to Nick.
As I know, you have some new information, I believe.
WALSH: Yes, absolutely. So according to a Lebanese security source, talking to my colleague, Itamar Kablawi (ph), this source is saying that
the devices that exploded were walkie-talkies, that the preliminary information is there were 15 to 20 explosions in the southern suburbs of
Beirut.
And I think the images we're seeing there on AFP looked to me, by the yellow flags there, to be a Hezbollah rally. And that may tally with some
of the reporting, suggesting that a funeral related to yesterday may have been targeted.
And there also appear to have been 15 to 20 other explosion in southern Beirut. Now to point out, if that is indeed the full extent of the blasts
we've heard today, that's 30 to 40 explosions, significantly less than the thousands which appear to have hit across Lebanon yesterday.
But this source goes on to say that the walkie-talkies appear to be in the source of some of these explosions, at least, if not all of them. They are
way far less widespread than the pagers and are predominantly used by Hezbollah members for crowd control in public events, et cetera.
So we may be seeing a second wave here, perhaps hitting crowd areas like that. You can see a car racing through the crowds there, presumably to get
away or carry injured somewhere.
But clearly, this causing significant fear and panic yet again, that video you're seeing there from AFP looks to me like a Hezbollah march or rally of
some description. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: I've been told it's actually the video from AFP, that it was, in fact, around that funeral that we had been talking about, that that was
mentioned, that Ben mentioned as well.
I also want to note state media is now reporting at least three dead. Again, this is early.
And Nick, as you noted, as of what we know at this hour, far fewer explosions than what we saw yesterday. But one would imagine, even with a
few dozen, as you noted, we are going to see more injuries and potentially more casualties -- Nick.
WALSH: Look, if this is indeed walkie-talkies that are sort of these devices, Hezbollah will have control over the information received by how
widespread these explosions may have been.
So we know 30 to 40 at this point from the security source that was talking to my colleague, Tamarka Abelow (ph).
But are we entirely clear that's the full picture?
We don't know at this particular stage. But if it is walkie-talkies, it's likely to have been a public event, you might think, or areas where
Hezbollah are managing security. But look, step back from this. This is yet another low tech means of communication from this group, Hezbollah, who are
very disciplined, very well trained, experienced in battle.
Very proud of their operational security and use these walkie-talkies, presumably, to try and have some local sense of safety and ability to
communicate without being intercepted.
And yet again, if indeed it is these walkie-talkies that have detonated, that supply chain appears to have been infiltrated by somebody. Now these
blasts may be larger, these devices are more significant than some of the images I've seen on social media would suggest.
A bigger explosion potentially than that which we have seen from those pagers, which, according to some reporting, had small amounts of explosive
inserted inside of them.
But look, put all that to one side, we're dealing with a militant group here, proud of its own security, reeling from the extraordinary
sophistication and widespread nature of the attack that they had yesterday.
And having to deal at public events like what appears to be a funeral procession or a rally here that we're seeing in those AFP pictures, have a
second wave of explosions of a highly similar nature hit them, maybe less.
But the damage to their sense of integrity, their sense of their own security and maybe morale, too, will be pretty acute. And this will inform
how they respond. They've said they will do so at a time of their choosing and give harsh atonement to those behind this.
They firmly blamed Israel. And seeing the reporting, suggests the Israelis were behind this, too. But this is also going to limit what they're able to
do because, for the last 24 hours, it pretty clear their communications have been in strict difficulty and they've been unaware who is unharmed.
So now we have a second wave. And that's yet going to push them two ways to a moment of uncertainty, whether or not quite sure what they can do, and a
moment possibly of irrational behavior, where they feel they have to do something which reminds the region of their relevance and their ability to
project strength.
Because at this point, they look weak.
HILL: Yes, absolutely. You noted CNN's reporting that Israel is behind this.
[10:55:00]
CNN's reporting that it is, in fact, in both the Israeli military and Mossad working together. Not commenting, Israelis not commenting in terms
of that for us.
When we look at, Firas, what this could do, right, as Nick pointing this out, Hezbollah looking weak in this moment. That would understandably be a
goal of this attack. And perhaps these multiple attacks, if in fact we learn that it is the same actors for both.
You and I were talking briefly earlier about whether this could also serve as a deterrent because these fears of an escalation are at such a high
point and increasing by the day.
What do you believe the ultimate outcome could be, especially as we see this two days in a row?
MAKSAD: I mean, it's very difficult to predict what will come out of such a volatile situation. Yes, Hezbollah has very much been undermined,
penetrated. Israel has established its escalation dominance here.
But I think we all need to take a moment and remember that this is the most powerful non-state actor in the world, 150,000 plus projectiles, missiles,
drones and whatnot. And that if a war with Lebanon would put the war in Gaza to shame in terms of the sheer amount and scope of devastation that
would be visited upon both countries.
That is the silver lining here, the hope that, in fact, that both sides are looking at such a level of destruction, that even if there is some kind of
performative response from Hezbollah, there is a need to save face.
And need to perhaps have a semblance of deterrence restored, that there'd be a third path out of this, that the diplomacy that has been spearheaded
by Amos Hochstein, President Biden's envoy on this matter, will offer the diplomatic off-ramp for both sides to step away from the brink.
Then there is a diplomatic outcome that has been put on the table here. Hezbollah pulling back a certain number of kilometers from that border with
Israel, seizing its rocket fire.
Israel in return also withdrawing from some of the disputed border points along the border between the two countries. So there is a diplomatic
pathway to unlock. However, Hezbollah and Iran have insisted on a ceasefire in Gaza.
(INAUDIBLE) reckoned with (ph) for that and that continues to be the sticking point. But maybe now things have gotten to such a point that the
diplomatic pathway can have a second chance.
HILL: We'll continue to watch this. Firas, Maha, Nick, thank you all.
If you're just joining us, we're following new explosions in Lebanon, explosions for a second day. Stay with us. The breaking news continues
after a quick break. You're watching CNN.
END
