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Ukraine Endures Increasing Attacks as North Korea Assists Russia; Divided International Reactions to ICC Arrest Warrants; Gaetz Out, Pam Bondi in as Trump's Attorney General Pick; Six Tourists in Laos Dead After Drinking Suspected Tainted Alcohol; Texas School Officials to Vote on Bible-Infused Lessons; Iran Activates New Centrifuges for Nuclear Program; Judge Postpones Sentencing in Trump Hush Money Case; Landmark Study Probes Ultra-Processed Foods. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired November 22, 2024 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:31]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, Britain has a dire warning for Kyiv. Ukraine's frontlines are at their most vulnerable since the early
days of Russia's war on Ukraine.
Welcome to our second hour. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. The time here is 7:00 in the evening.
Also coming up Trump names Pam Bondi as his new pick for attorney general after Matt Gaetz steps aside. Six tourists in Laos are dead from suspected
methanol poisoning, and --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA BARUCH, OPPOSES ADDING CHRISTIAN LESSONS TO TEXAS CURRICULUM: I believe my grandkids should share our family's religion. I need help
stopping the government from teaching them to be Christians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, this hour, Texas votes on whether Christian bible lessons should be part of elementary school education, a move that could test the
limits of freedom of religion, which is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution.
Well, a difficult situation on the frontlines. That acknowledgment today from Ukraine's defense minister as his country's military faces increasing
challenges and threats from Russia. His assessment being supported by British intelligence, which says conditions along the frontlines are less
stable than at any time during the war. A top U.K. defense official had some stark comments today about what could happen if Russia expands its war
into Eastern Europe.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. ROB MAGOWAN, DEPUTY CHIEF OF BRITISH DEFENCE STAFF: If the British army was asked to fight tonight, it would fight tonight. And I don't think
anybody in this room should be under any illusion that if the Russians invaded Eastern Europe tonight, then we would meet them in that fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, this coming a day after Russia launched what President Vladimir Putin calls a new missile on Ukraine's Dnipro region. The Kremlin
calling it a response to, quote, "reckless decisions" by Western countries supplying weapons to Ukraine. Well, fear of additional Russian attacks
prompted Ukraine's parliament to close for the day.
There's a lot going on here. Nick Paton Walsh is back with us this hour from Kyiv.
That remark by the U.K. defense official really underscoring the danger of this moment. What do you make of the comments and where do things stand on
not just the frontlines, but the escalation that could include at this point certainly threats from Russia suggest it could include Eastern
Europe?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, he's essentially reiterating NATO's Article Five promise to each other that
if Eastern Europe NATO members were invaded, the rest of NATO will come to their aid. But that promise has always been something that NATO made to
each other because they felt they would never need to actually voice it.
And I think we're at a perilous moment here, not because Russia is about to invade Eastern Europe. Look, they're struggling to take the parts of
Ukraine they want, a significantly inferior neighbor. They thought they could invade in a matter of weeks. Those comments mark the escalation
between NATO, the U.S. and Russia that we've seen dramatically increase in the last week.
Now, the missile that Russia launched at Dnipro was a clear message to the NATO alliance about the fact that Moscow feels it still has in its toolkit
capabilities that could defeat Western air defenses. That's what Vladimir Putin's main point when he talked about the Oreshnik Mach 10 hypersonic,
non-nuclear missile. You could see in the images it was able to deliver multiple warheads from one missile.
That's the kind of thing you normally associate with a nuclear payload. Not here, but that was the subtext of what we saw.
And Becky, look, we've seen here increased bombardment of Ukraine nightly, horrific bombardment. A lot of it facilitated by ballistic missiles
significantly less fancy, you might say, than that which we saw over the Dnipro in the early hours of yesterday morning. A lot of them, too, from a
new ally. Well, a more vocal, more persistent, more present ally to Russia, North Korea. Here's what we know.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH (voice-over): The scramble for the dead or the living horrifically commonplace in Ukraine. Yet this series of homes in Kyiv
turned to rubble by something other, not Russian, but a North Korean supplied ballistic missile and made able to fly here to cause this
barbarism, killing a man and his 4-year-old son by circuitry from the United States.
[10:05:17]
Ukrainian officials told CNN ballistic missile attacks by Russia were rising fast. 194 so far this year and about a third of them, at least 60,
were using North Korean KN-23's. But these crude missiles part of growing aid as North Korean troops also come to Russia rely on a sophistication
smuggled into their hermit kingdom. One on display by Ukrainian investigators at this Kyiv warehouse of missile fragments.
It is a house of horrors, drones that haunt the night skies, rockets that tear down lives. They pick through the dust to learn how the killing
machines work here rebuilding a Shahed Iranian drone circuits.
Parts from a Kinzhal missile, a Shahed Iranian drone and a Russian Orlan reconnaissance drone. All things Ukraine has been subjected to for many
months. But key these North Korean KN-23 missiles rely, they say, on components from the United States and the Netherlands.
(Voice-over): This box containing dozens of small bits of circuitry made by household names in the USA or Europe subject to sanctions globally but
smuggled often via China to North Korea.
When you open all this up and find American components, how do you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): Like sanctions are failing.
ANDRIY KULCHYTSKYL, KYIV SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF FOREIGN EXPERTISE (through text translation): All the electronics are foreign. There is
nothing Korean in it. The only thing Korean is the metal, which quickly rusts and corrodes.
PATON WALSH: The journey the chips and circuits take to Russia may lead through North Korea, even China as a middleman, though ultimately they are
U.S. design and make.
OLEKSANDR VYSIKAN, KYIV SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF FOREIGN EXPERTISE (through text translation): The chips most often from the United States.
But the country of manufacture can be China, Malaysia, Taiwan. However, it means that the headquarters is in the United States.
PATON WALSH: As the toll from these missiles deepens, Ukrainian officials say the Western firms need to be held accountable. From Thursday's Russian
launch of a new weapon to their growing use of prolonging North Korean missile, the global reach of this war grows.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH (on-camera): Now I should point out that we've heard from a Ukrainian security source that they believe there are North Korean
technical personnel wearing Russian uniforms, but in a different part of the frontline area. The port city of Mariupol. So many of the 11,000 or so
North Korean troops sent here are thought to mostly be in the Kursk region, trying to help Russia kick Ukraine out of that. But it's growing evidence,
really, of, well, North Korea not being the most powerful ally Russia could find globally that this is increasingly an international conflict.
And look, you know, Becky, just after the remarkable week we've had that began with the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz ringing Vladimir Putin, kind
of trying to get peace talks started, doing it for his own domestic political reasons and I think infuriating some of his allies, we've now got
to a point where the United States has let Ukraine fire U.S. missiles into Russia. It's hard to overstate how significant a step that is, one that
Biden said he wouldn't take for months because of how escalatory it would be.
And then Moscow, while many sort of, well, debated as to whether this would be another red line that Russia let fly past it, well, instead they seem to
have found a way of responding and a way which was, while having no nuclear element to it at all, was sort of ridden with a nuclear subtext, flying in
the direction of Western Europe. And I think trying the Kremlin desperately to remind Washington that it's not a spent force, exhausted by this war,
that it retains surprises -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes. And there are clearly real concerns not just in Washington, but in these European capitals and at NATO headquarters at present.
Nick, it's really good to have you there. Thank you very much indeed. Your reporting so important, mate.
Well, arrest warrants issued by the International Criminal Court over the war in Gaza have revealed stark divisions in global reactions to the
conflict. Now, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the former defense minister Yoav Gallant, both now wanted by the court. Also named was
a Hamas commander, Mohammed Deif.
Well, the U.S. says it, quote, "fundamentally rejects" the warrants served against the two Israelis, while the E.U. says the court's decision must be
implemented.
[10:10:02]
We've also heard reaction from Palestinians and Israelis themselves. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is a great decision, but by God's grace, it's implemented and Netanyahu faces the darkest day as he's
committed many crimes against the Palestinian people. He's killed our children, destroyed our homes, our women, and our children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This decision has come very late. Today Netanyahu is dealing with the Gaza Strip with complete barbarism and
terrorism.
YAFIT BARUCH, SUPPORTER OF ISRAELI PM BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: An arrest warrant against our prime minister, the only person in the Middle East that's
really leading to fight terror, to demolish terror. That's what you're doing? I can't believe it. We're not going to let you guys have your hands
on him. Not going to happen. And second, wait a couple of months until Trump gets on board and then we'll see what you have to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, in other developments, Israel says it will stop the use of administrative detention against Jewish settlers in the West Bank.
Administrative detention is most often used against Palestinians, but in some cases settlers have also been detained.
Well, let's connect you to Nic Robertson, who is in Jerusalem for the very latest.
I want you to firstly walk us through this policy and what you make of the timing before I circle back to the fallout from the ICC ruling.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think, look, I think the timing really gives a sense of what the last lady reacting to the
ICC talked about, things are going to change when Trump comes. And I think that's a reference to a lot of people here really perceive that the Trump
administration and its picks, let's say for ambassador here, Mike Huckabee, who's a friend of the settler movement, is going to be people here would
expect and anticipate softer on the settlers.
And it was under the Biden administration and international pressure that Israel put these detention orders, administrative detention, on some
settlers because of complaints and criticism coming from the Biden administration. Look, since October 7th last year, settlers have killed 12
Palestinians in the West Bank, in the occupied West Bank. I've been to two of those funerals and there's no amount of anger in the Palestinian
communities because they feel that the settlers, whether it's the murders or the intimidation, you know, turning up when farmers are getting the
olive harvest, torching their cars and villages, all of those things, are really happening with impunity, even a nod and a wink from the government
is the perception of Palestinian villagers.
So that's the background to the Biden administration pressuring Israel to put those administrative detention orders on a small number of settlers.
The fact that they've been removed now by the new defense minister, who was the former foreign minister, has been widely applauded by the government of
Israel at the moment.
ANDERSON: Let's just take another look at the ICC ruling and the fallout there. It's been interesting to see the response from countries around the
world, particularly those obviously who are signed up to the Rome Statute, which of course created the ICC. Jordan's foreign minister has called on
those who have appealed against this, called on members to respect the warrant, saying, and I quote, "The international community cannot
selectively accept ICC decisions in some cases while rejecting them in others."
But there has been a mixed bag coming out of Europe and elsewhere, correct?
ROBERTSON: Oh, it is. And I mean let's be realistic here. The ICC and its reach depends on the Rome Statute signatories. That's 124 countries. So
it's not -- the ICC is not universally accepted and, you know, we got a sense of that as well reflecting what the Jordanian foreign minister said
from the E.U.'s high representative for foreign affairs, that's Josep Borrell, yesterday saying this is a legal thing. This is legal, not
political. It's coming from a court and should be respected.
But let's look at the E.U. The Italians have said, yes, we'll respect it. But they've also said we question the decision that's been made. The French
have said yes, we'll respect it and arrest Netanyahu, and the Israelis have said, well, in which case you can't have a role in the peace plans for
around a ceasefire with Lebanon because of that position you're taking. The Dutch have said that they would arrest Netanyahu, turn him over to the ICC.
The British have said that they will do what is internationally obligated by law, implying that they would follow through.
[10:15:02]
Viktor Orban, as he often does in Europe, and I have to say the Austrians were in the same camp there as well, have said absolutely not going to
respect what the ICC says. In fact will invite Netanyahu to the country. That's not a problem. And the prime minister here saying this in response
to what Viktor Orban said. He said in contrast to the shameful weakness of those who stood by the courageous decision against Israel's right to defend
itself, Hungary, like our friends in the United States, President Biden, of course, saying it was outrageous.
The ICC decision like our friends in the United States shows moral clarity and stands for justice and truth. No surprise that Europe is divided over
these issues. The Germans very nuanced and I think this is instructive, saying they would obviously follow the international obligations, legal
obligations but they will only address this issue if the prime minister were to come. In the meantime, they'll continue supplying the weapons that
they normally supply to Israel.
So, you know, even within those Rome Statute members, it's falling on very uneven ground, I think.
ANDERSON: Absolutely. And many calling out the position of many of those Western countries on the arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, for example,
and then their positions with regard the Israeli prime minister and the former defense minister.
Interesting times, Nick. Thank you.
President-elect Donald Trump suffers his first failed cabinet pick but moves quickly to replace embattled attorney general choice Matt Gaetz after
he withdrew on Thursday. He chose -- he being Donald Trump chose former Florida attorney general Pam Bondi. And that's the state's first woman A.G.
to head up the U.S. Justice Department.
Bondi, well known to Trump and his team, she helped defend Trump during his first impeachment trial when he was president. Sources say her path to
confirmation certainly appears far less controversial.
CNN's Alayna Treene has been covering all of this.
Donald Trump, as I understand it, Alayna, put her name forward within a matter of hours. We know that she is a Trump supporter and loyalist, and we
know that she has been involved in his defense during the impeachment process. What else do we know about her and her background as it were,
given that this is a huge job heading up the Department of Justice?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And there's a lot of people, we've even heard this from members on the hill now that believe that she's
far more qualified for this role than perhaps Matt Gaetz was. So she was a prosecutor in Florida for 18 years. She also was the first female attorney
general of Florida. She was in that role for eight years.
A couple of things I want to highlight for when she was attorney general in Florida. She had really pushed back on expanding any sort of LGBTQ rights
in the state including fighting to keep gay marriage banned in the state. She also really pushed or tried to overturn and push back on the Affordable
Care Act in her state. She did gain some of a reputation, though, for her anti-sex trafficking push and efforts while as attorney general. So that's
some of her background as attorney general.
As you mentioned, though, she knows Donald Trump very well. They have a long history of knowing each other. He's always loved watching her on
television, something that we know is kind of been a quality that he's liked in all of the major picks that he has made. Another thing on Bondi's
background is she has also a big lobbying background. She once worked for Ballard Partners. It's actually a lobbying -- a Republican lobbying firm
where also Susie Wiles, Donald Trump's new incoming chief of staff, had also worked as well as many others who are close to the former president
helping out with this transition process.
While she was there and doing other lobbying work, there's a couple companies I want to highlight that she had been involved with. That
includes Uber, Amazon, General Motors and Qatar. So these could be some areas where perhaps Republicans and Democrats who are on the Senate
Judiciary Committee and who would be tasked with confirming her may try to confront her on.
Another area as well that she may be, you know, criticized for and we've seen her under scrutiny for this in the past is that she really kind of
attached herself to the fight in the aftermath of the 2020 election. She started to repeat and spread some of the false claims of election fraud and
also falsely claimed that Donald Trump had won that election. And so these are just some areas where she might have some trouble.
But all in all, when I talk to Donald Trump's transition team, they do believe that she should have a much easier time going through the Senate
than Matt Gaetz would have -- Becky.
ANDERSON: I think it was Ballard Partners that Qatar tapped after the blockade imposed by the UAE and Saudi, which was of course supported by
Donald Trump at the beginning of his first administration.
[10:20:11]
So perhaps an interesting choice by Qatar I think back in 2018, in order perhaps to get underneath the skin, as it were, of the Trump campaign. So
certainly she knows at least one country here in this region extremely well, having worked for them.
Thank you for that.
Still to come, the Texas State Board of Education is set to vote on whether to approve bible infused curriculum in public schools. We are closely
following both sides of what is this controversial proposal.
And tourism turns deadly. A rising death toll in what is otherwise an idyllic vacation spot in Southeast Asia. The story on that is just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson.
Six tourists have now died in Laos after drinking alcohol that was believed to be tainted with the deadly methanol. The victims include two Australian
teenagers, a British woman, one American and two Danish citizens. They'd all been staying in Vang Vieng, famous among backpackers traveling through
Southeast Asia. Local police told CNN that a special task force is now investigating the deaths.
Let's bring in Dr. Frank LoVecchio. He is an emergency physician and medical toxicologist.
And I know that there are lots of questions our viewers would want answered here. Methanol. Let's just talk about what it is. It's usually, as I
understand it, used for cleaning and industrial products like paint thinners, for example. It is sometimes legally added -- illegally added,
sorry, to alcohol to increase its volume.
So what are the symptoms of poisoning from methanol? And is it always deadly?
DR. FRANK LOVECCHIO, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN AND MEDICAL TOXICOLOGIST: Well, those are great points that you brought up. There is methanol as a
byproduct when you make wine, for example, especially fruit wine. But it's about 0.4 percent is usually the European limit, as of the amount of
methanol you can actually have in regular -- and that would be like a 40 percent alcohol.
It's not always deadly, but a shot glass or so, this is a medicine cup that I took from the hospital here. About 30 ML is enough to kill a child. If
you have two to three of these, it could be enough to kill an adult. Unfortunately, it also causes blindness, so you might get a little bit in
you, you might survive it, and then you develop blindness. So it is pretty serious. The side effects are very similar to alcohol. Some inebriation.
You feel weak tired, dizzy, lightheaded and you could feel drunk, and that is why people put it in there.
[10:25:06]
Another way to say that is when you make your homemade wine, people want to get the strength higher so they'll put a little bit of methanol in there
and, you know, it's a way to kind of fortify the alcohol. It's not recommended of course. It, you know, should be illegal.
ANDERSON: Understood. The U.S. joining New Zealand, Australia, the U.K., Canada, all warning their citizens to be cautious while out drinking in
Southeast Asian countries. What are some ways that people can protect themselves? Because sadly, as we understand it, I mean, this is not
uncommon that methanol is used.
LOVECCHIO: That's right. So personally, if it were me and I had to drink, I would drink from something reputable like a can of beer, for example, or
wine that was opened in front of me. I would not drink anything homemade. And I would not drink anything -- I'd be very cautious about drinking
something on tap or, you know, quote, "the house wine" in one of these countries.
So just be very cautious. I love those countries. I love traveling there but also have to be very, very cautious of it. There's no way to detect it
except by sending it to a fancy lab, so you can't really detect it and it smells very, very similar to just regular alcohol, very similar to vodka or
whiskey.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, sir. Thank you very much indeed.
LOVECCHIO: Thank you for having me.
ANDERSON: Well, this hour education officials in Texas are meeting to vote on a controversial new curriculum. If approved, it would incorporate
Christian lessons from the bible in kindergarten through fifth grade. Now opponents say the plan violates the separation of church and state.
CNN's Rosa Flores is following this story for us from Houston.
What's in this curriculum? Let's just start there.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky. Thank you so much for having me. So this curriculum was created by the state of Texas and what it has is
some bible lessons infused into that curriculum, K through five. And it includes, for example, the golden rule. They use Jesus's sermon on the
mount, to teach the Golden Rule. They have other lessons about Jesus's life, and also they include the Psalms in some of these lessons.
As you might imagine, there's been a lot of criticism here in Texas because of this. There are a lot of groups. Some teachers' unions have said that
there is too much Christianity that has been infused into this curriculum and that they're against it. But as you might imagine, too, that this is
the state of Texas. So a lot of people are also supporting this. Here are voices on both sides. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARUCH: You see, I'm Jewish. I believe my grandkids should share our family's religion. I need help stopping the government from teaching them
to be Christians.
GLENN MELVIN, SUPPORTS ADDING CHRISTIAN LESSONS TO TEXAS CURRICULUM: These biblical references do not constitute an establishment of religion.
Instead, they serve as good examples of what we hope we all are -- respectful, helpful, and brave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: Now the Texas Education Agency defending their curriculum, sending us a statement, saying in part, quote, "Religious source material comprises
just a small part of the product and includes information from multiple faith traditions such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Greek and Roman
Polytheism, and Native American religious traditions."
Now, Becky, like you mentioned, the vote is scheduled for today. Right now, the board is on recess but we're going to have to see what happens once
that vote is taken -- Becky.
ANDERSON: We'll keep an eye on that one.
Rosa, thank you. Rosa is in Houston, in Texas.
Still to come, Iran activates new advanced centrifuges in its controversial nuclear program. What's behind this latest move? And what are the
implications after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:31:37]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson.
Iran says it is activating new advanced centrifuges to enrich uranium for its nuclear program. Now, this comes after the U.N. nuclear watchdog
criticized Tehran for not cooperating with the agency. Well, Iran says it's only protecting its interests and developing nuclear energy for peaceful
purposes.
Injecting gas into centrifuges is part of the process to enrich uranium, which could ultimately be used to develop a nuclear weapon. Iran has
repeatedly denied it has any ambitions of building a bomb.
Mohammad Al Shabani is the editor of Amwaj Media, and he joins me now from London.
At a time, which couldn't be more worrying in this region given the escalation between Israel and Iran of late, Israel squarely accusing Iran
of trying to build a bomb, saying it's weeks away, gets support from the U.S. who've said they will never allow Iran to have a bomb. So what is
going on here at present?
Certainly Iran denies it is interested in making a nuclear bomb, but the head of the IAEA has warned that Iran has enough uranium to make several
nuclear bombs if it chose to do so. What is, as we understand it, what is the state of play in Tehran? There's an awful lot of white noise out there
at present. What do we understand to be the real state of play?
MOHAMMAD AL SHABANI, EDITOR, AMWAJ MEDIA: Well, I think the number one question to ask when looking at the showdown at the IAEA Board of Governors
is what's changed. And I think the answer to that is, is nothing except one thing, which is the U.S. election and the incoming Trump administration.
That's the major changing factor here.
Iran has been enriching uranium for quite some time now. The stockpile has grown, but in a relatively stable manner. Just days before the resolution,
the new Iranian president hosted the IAEA director general for the first time since taking office and during that meeting, one item that were
discussed was the fact that Iran is open to putting a cap on its 60 percent enriched uranium and then we had this resolution which saying basically
that that cap is not enough, that the E-3 and the U.S. want basically a comprehensive report by the IAEA by next spring and hinting more or less
that unless that materializes by next October, Europe may trigger what's referred to as snapback.
It's a snapping back of U.N. Security Council sanctions which were previously lifted under the 2015 nuclear deal. So it's quite convoluted,
the whole process.
ANDERSON: A couple of things have changed since the last Trump administration. It was Donald Trump, of course, who pulled the U.S. out of
the JCPOA deal. A couple of things have changed. Israel has continued to ratchet up the pressure against Israel, and efforting, you know, clear
isolation of Iran. Iran also less isolated in the region that I am in with better relations, certainly less -- a rapprochement has gone on between the
Saudis and Iran, the UAE and Iran.
[10:35:09]
Iran does, you know, good business with Qatar. What's Tehran's strategic thinking at this point? Today, I've seen, you know, doing the rounds on
social some suggestion that the Iranian president is positioning, you know, some sort of nuclear deal that a Trump administration might be interested
in signing up to. What's the strategic calculus two months out from a Trump administration?
AL SHABANI: So, again, I think Europe kind of dangling snapback by next October, which Iran has previously outlined as a red line, saying that it
will withdraw from the NPT. This all tells us that we're headed towards a showdown that this nuclear crisis, which has been going on for 22 years, is
not going to drag on forever.
Now, with reference to what Iran may be open to under the second Trump administration, you absolutely rightly point out that they've been putting
out trial balloons. They're saying that they don't think the 2015 deal, which Trump pulled out of is, quote-unquote, "no longer good enough for
us."
What does that mean? It means that they're open to a new deal, perhaps a better deal. And I think Trump coming into office, again, like you rightly
point out, is going to face a very different region. The neighbors of Iran are not as antagonistic towards Tehran. On the other hand Israel is far
more hawkish. Just weeks ago, it carried out airstrikes inside Iran. Netanyahu is claiming that one of those sites was a nuclear related site.
And we're all now waiting for how Iran may or may not respond to that.
So I think the bigger picture here is that all the major players in the region, including Iran and Europe, I think the rest of the world, are all
angling to see what may come out of the next Trump administration.
ANDERSON: I also just want to bring Riyadh, the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, into this conversation. Is Saudi the solution here or at least a
significant player, a mediator, in any strategy going forward with regard to Iran? I mean, look, you know, you can't move around this region without
hearing real concern about what happens next with regard Israel and Iran. Since those attacks from Israel, there is a real sense that Tehran is
significantly weakened.
What option or what play the Saudis in all of this?
AL SHABANI: I think there are two really important things to keep in mind when looking at how Saudi Arabia may approach Trump and Iran. Number one is
that in 2019, its oil facilities were bombed. Now the Houthis claimed those attacks but at the time the accusation was that Iran was behind it. Those
attacks took out half of the kingdom's oil production for months, and we saw the Trump administration do nothing.
That was shocking to the Saudis. That meant that their view of U.S. commitments fundamentally shifted. And I think that played a very important
role in triggering this rapprochement, which you mentioned previously, right. So I think if Saudi Arabia now is normalizing relations with Iran
and whether or not, yes or no, whether that can be a prelude to normalization with Israel, I think all of this shows that their trust in
the existing world order is being undermined. They're seeing shifting chips on the table so to speak.
And I think for Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince, the number one priority is his Vision 2030 and Vision 2030 means that they need investment
from abroad. No one is going to invest in the kingdom if have missiles being fired from Yemen, missiles being fired from Iran. His number one
priority is to make sure he can diversify his economy. He needs peace to be able to do that.
ANDERSON: Yes. This is an unapologetic Saudi first vision. It means you need de-escalation and regional integration. It means providing regional
solutions for regional problems. All of which Washington is well aware of. This is a different Gulf region, a changing architecture across the wider
Middle East region.
And it's good to have you on as we continue to watch what these sort of strategic moves are by the individual key players. Thank you very much
indeed.
We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:41:52]
ANDERSON: And some breaking news for you on Donald Trump's hush money case, and we have just learned that the judge has postponed sentencing which was
set for next week. The judge did not set a new sentencing date or make any further statements about the delay.
Katelyn Polantz joining us now.
Always good to have you at these key points in what has been a sort of, you know, monthslong litany of these court cases and charges against Donald
Trump. So where do we stand today, given what we've just heard from the judge?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the word is in from Judge Juan Merchan in this Superior Court or the Supreme Court
of New York state in this case against Donald Trump, where Trump was convicted. The sentencing is off. It was set for November 26th. A
sentencing of Donald Trump who has been convicted of crimes, being found guilty by a jury on 34 counts of falsifying business records.
He will not be sentenced as scheduled on November 26th next week, was when it was scheduled. There has been a lot of back and forth between the
prosecutors and the defense team. The defense wants the whole case wiped away whereas the prosecutors, they are sort of juggling the two sides of
the coin here, the respect for the Office of the Presidency and that Donald Trump as the president-elect returning to the presidency in the United
States, and then also the verdict of this jury, how to respect that and make sure that justice is carried out for somebody who has been convicted
of crimes.
But, Becky, this is the slow-moving collapse of this one case against Donald Trump, where he was taken through trial. There was a verdict reached
by a jury and now it does appear that there is not anything on the horizon where Donald Trump will have a final judgment of that case, a sentencing to
face the consequences of those crimes before he takes office as president. There's going to be a question of whether the case continues on for five
years. It looks like the judge does want to hear things, other legal arguments around the case. If it was properly presented to the jury, things
like that, that those arguments may be going forward so the case may stay alive.
But, Becky, Donald Trump will not be sentenced in November as previously scheduled.
ANDERSON: So ultimately this is a big win for the president-elect and indeed his legal team, correct?
POLANTZ: Correct. And actually when the prosecutors said they wouldn't be opposed to holding off this sentencing that was scheduled for the course of
Trump's presidency pushing it back until he's out of office, a spokesperson for Donald Trump piped up and called it a total and definitive victory for
Trump. Be very prepared for another similar statement to be coming from his side.
But it doesn't mean that he is cleared of these charges, of these convictions. At this time, the case does still exist in that New York state
court system, which is going to be a very different thing than what is very likely to happen in the federal criminal cases against Trump that didn't go
to trial and in which he'll have a lot more power over whenever he's the president of the United States.
[10:45:16]
ANDERSON: Just how much concern is there amongst the judges and teams who were involved in putting together these prosecutions, these cases against
Donald Trump? This of course, as you rightly pointed out, the last of a, you know, long list of cases that we've covered here on CNN over the past,
what, year or so. How concerned are those who've been involved of retribution from Donald Trump as prime minister, as president?
POLANTZ: Yes, in some corners of prosecution offices, there is concern about retribution, whether it's Capitol Hill investigations, having people
being looked by professional responsibility authorities at Trump's prompting those sorts of things.
But honestly, Becky, I have spent a lot of time talking to prosecutors who know folks in these offices, specifically in the special counsel's office,
that brought the federal cases against Trump that are likely to be wiped away and they're already being wound down, and the overwhelming mindset of
these people is that it's not political in nature. You prosecute because you believe in the execution of the law, and you take it through the court
system.
And at some point, if the court system doesn't land on your side, that's just the way the cookie crumbles when you're a prosecutor.
ANDERSON: Of course members of the Trump campaign will say that these cases were weaponized. It remains to be seen what happens next.
It's really good to have you, Katelyn. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed.
Right, ahead on the show, we all know ultra processed foods are not good for us, right?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. KEVIN HALL, SENIOR INVESTIGATOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: But there's a lot of things that people would be surprised that are in the
ultra-processed foods category. And, you know, could potentially be healthy for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, a major trial in the U.S. looks at which ingredients in ultra-processed foods could drive you to overeat. That after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, Donald Trump's controversial pick to be the next Health and Human Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., has promised to transform the U.S.
food system. While his anti-vaccine stances, his false claims and his conspiracy theories about issues like COVID are seen as problematic, his
goal of cracking down on ultra-processed foods is one that most health officials and doctors are in agreement on.
In fact, one group of researchers is conducting a landmark study looking at these types of foods. The first of its kind. And for more, I'm joined by
CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell.
It's good to have you. Tell us about this new -- it's a U.S. government funded study, as I understand it. What are they looking at and why?
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So we know that ultra- processed foods make up, you know, about 70 percent of the foods you might come across in the grocery store. And we know that they've been linked to
all sorts of health problems, but it's been really difficult to study this in a very controlled way and get real scientific answers.
[10:50:02]
We went to the NIH to see why that's been so difficult and how they are tackling it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TIRRELL (voice-over): Sam Srisatta has been living in this hospital room at the National Institutes of Health for two weeks.
Do you have, like, wearables on? Like tracking everything?
SAM SRISATTA, PARTICIPANT IN NIH STUDY: Yes. So I do have a couple of these sensors.
TIRRELL (voice-over): He's not sick. He's a participant in a clinical trial, one of the first of its kind, measuring his movement, his blood, his
gut microbiome. Even the air he breathes. All to try to better understand how our health is affected by ultra-processed foods.
I think your food is coming in.
We saw the kind of food he got in. Eggs and spinach and yogurt. But we don't know. That could be processed. It could be unprocessed. That's part
of the trial.
(Voice-over): Ultra-processed foods contain additives and ingredients you wouldn't find in your own kitchen. They were shown in the previous NIH
study to drive overeating and weight gain, according to researcher Dr. Kevin Hall.
Are ultra-processed foods just junk foods?
HALL: What we often think of as junk foods probably captures a big chunk of the ultra-processed foods in a kind of a category, but there's a lot of
things that people would be surprised are in the ultra-processed foods category and, you know, could potentially be healthy for you. So things
like whole grain breads that you might buy from the supermarket. Most of those are considered ultra-processed because of some of the additives and
preservatives that are in there, as well as how they're manufactured. But there's a lot of debate about whether or not all ultra-processed foods are
bad for you.
TIRRELL (voice-over): And that's what this trial is trying to find out.
HALL: What are the mechanisms? What is it about this category of foods that is driving people to overconsume calories?
TIRRELL: Dr. Hall's team has two ideas about what might be causing people to overeat some ultra-processed foods, their energy density or how many
calories are in each gram of food, and their hyper-palatability, when foods contain just the right combinations of salt, sugar, fat, and carbs to make
us not want to stop eating them.
This is where they prepare all of the food. And they don't just prepare it, they weigh it before it goes up and when it comes back after the
participant has eaten.
(Voice-over): Each day participants in the trial are offered a total of 6,000 calories and researchers measure how much they choose to eat. The
trial is a month long and each week has a different diet, minimally processed or different kinds of ultra-processed. Sam was in an ultra-
processed week during our visit but one with foods Dr. Hall doesn't expect will drive him to overeat.
How is that ultra-processed?
SARA TURNER, DIETITIAN, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: It's all based on the ingredients. So the eggs that we used in that omelet, the egg whites
were a liquid egg product so it has ingredients in it that make it ultra- processed. It's not just eggs. Our yogurts, the pancake syrup that was in the yogurt, those all have ultra-processed ingredients in terms of added
flavors, added sweeteners.
TIRRELL (voice-over): The next day Sam would switch to meals that were more energy dense and hyper-palatable. The ones expected to lead to overeating.
TURNER: So you can see that these are all foods that, they're ultra- processed. And you can see that the volume compared to this is quite
different as well.
TIRRELL: Wow, that is really illustrative. I mean, just looking, you need two trays of food for this one and one tray of food for this next diet when
you're getting the same number -- you're offering, at least, the same number of calories.
TURNER: Correct, yes.
TIRRELL (voice-over): Once a week, Sam spends a full day sealed in this metabolic chamber.
Do you know what they're measuring in there?
SRISATTA: I think they're measuring how much O2 I consume and how much carbon dioxide I release.
TIRRELL (voice-over): The air he breathes in and out can tell researchers how many calories he's burning and whether they're coming from carbs or
fat, all to help understand what ultra-processed foods really do to our bodies.
HALL: By understanding how the food environment actually does shape our metabolic health we hope to basically improve the food supply in the
future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TIRRELL: And Becky, they still need to enroll about a dozen more people in this trial who will all live at that NIH hospital for a month before they
can complete the study. They hope to get results by the end of next year. And as they say, they could give that over to the FDA, to regulators, to
policymakers who could potentially consider what to do with this information. They can also provide that information to us as consumers so
that we can be better armed as we're going to the grocery store and making decisions about what to buy for ourselves and our families.
One finding from the previous trial that the NIH did is that it's much more expensive to eat a mostly minimally processed diet than an ultra-processed
diet, not to mention how much longer it can take to prepare those kinds of meals. So if we can find a way to eat in a sort of healthier way, but still
get some of this convenience and lower price, they are saying that is really the goal of this. And for that they need the information and the
data -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. And poor Sam, just needs a good night out, I think, after all of that.
[10:55:03]
But it's good that he's involved because ultimately the information will be useful for all of us going forward.
Thank you.
Well, our parting shots today comes from Washington, D.C. where it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. A towering Sitka spruce arriving
this hour all the way from Alaska to become this year's capital Christmas tree. It is the latest in a long line of trees to be chosen from the
country's national forests to adorn the lawn of the U.S. Capitol. But in a first for 2024, Americans chose the tree's nickname on social media. The
winner, a puny nod or a punny nod, sorry, to Batman Spruce Wayne.
That's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson. Stay with CNN. NEWSROOM is up next.
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