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Connect the World
CNN International: Experts: Helicopter may have Mistaken Bright Light for Plane; UNRWA Chief: Israeli Ban will have "Disastrous" Consequences; What we know about Deadly Collision Over Potomac River; Trump Again Threatens 100 Percent Tariffs on BRICS Nations; German Lawmakers Debate Immigration Restrictions. Aired 9-9:45a ET
Aired January 31, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: This is the scene in Washington, as new details emerge of the final moments before a U.S. Army helicopter
collided with a passenger plane on Wednesday. It is 09:00 a.m. there and it is 06:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Eleni Giokos. This is "Connect the
World".
Also coming up, Israel receives a new hostage release list from Hamas as the world waits for word on the reopening of the Raffa border crossing. And
U.S. imports could face new tariffs as soon as tomorrow, as President Trump plans up to 25 percent of levies on China, Mexico as well as Canada.
All right, let's check in on how the stock futures are looking right now in New York. And it's green all around, as you can see, a really good boost
today, S&P, NASDAQ, as well as DOW sitting firmly in the green is a couple of reasons. Firstly, we had Apple earnings, everyone looking at those
numbers. And then secondly, of course, December, core inflation coming in at 2.8 percent year-on-year.
You've got consumer spending increasing by 0.7 percent showing economic growth. This possibly means that the Federal Reserve could delay on
dropping interest rates down the line. We'll bring you an update on those figures later in the show.
In the meantime, two painstaking processes are currently underway in the wake of the fatal midair collision over Washington, D.C. First, the effort
to locate the remaining victims' bodies at last report, there were still 14 people missing out of the 67 killed in the disaster. And of course,
investigation to find out why this happened?
And its early stages I want to show now some video of the collision between the American Airlines flight from Wichita and a U.S. Army Helicopter on
Wednesday. But it's a warning it does show the moment of impact. Now the footage obtained exclusively by CNN, offers new angles, and it's sparking
new theories about possible confusion in the sky.
Experts are saying the helicopter pilots may have misjudged the position of the plane. Here's our Aviation Analyst, Mary Schiavo on CNN earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: This video and the other videos we saw yesterday, we do see other lights in the area, and in particular, one
bright light of another aircraft. And when the air traffic control tower asked the helicopter, do you have the plane in sight?
I know the first time that I looked at that video, I focused on the moving light, not on the stationary light which wasn't stationary, it's just your
--
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It appears that way.
SCHIAVO: So obviously there's a concern that the helicopter pilot may have looked at the brighter moving light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right, flight data and voice recorders have been recovered from the crash site, and we've learned there was a close call at Reagan National
Airport just a day before this collision. With the investigation just getting underway, President Donald Trump is blaming Democrats and diversity
hires for the tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this
crash.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because I have common sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. Arlette Saenz is following all the developments for us from Washington. Arlette, we've got new angles of this collision. We're
getting a lot more information. Tell me how this is playing into the investigation?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are still so many fluids parts Eleni about this investigation that the NTSB is trying to
conduct. They're trying to get more answers into exactly why this conclusion transpired.
As you mentioned earlier, investigators have now recovered and have access to those two black boxes, one that was with the American Airlines passenger
plane, and then the other that belonged to the army, Black Hawk Helicopter. This will be a very important for investigators to comb through as they are
looking for flight data and voice recordings to try to determine any clues, any hints as to why this collision happened.
Now there are also a lot of questions right now about the altitude at which that army helicopter had been flying at. Overnight "The New York Times"
reported that it actually was flying off of its intended path, that it was above the 200 feet altitude limit that those types of helicopters are
supposed to be flying at in this particular area.
[09:05:00]
In fact, just moments ago, President Trump had posted on social media saying that it's clear that this helicopter was flying way too high. Now
it's unclear whether that's something he's actually been briefed on in this investigation, or if it's merely speculation, but that is something that
investigators are likely going to look into in the coming days and weeks.
Now CNN has also learned that the air traffic controller that was guiding this plane last these two vehicles on Wednesday night was actually handling
two jobs at once. We're told that this is not uncommon for them to be directing traffic for both helicopters and passenger jets coming into
Reagan National Airport, but that's also something investigators likely could look into.
On top of the investigation, there is still the recovery effort to try to find more bodies in the water that's expected to continue today. They had
put a pause on this overnight, sources said that they were planning to bring in a crane to try to help dislocate -- to try to locate some of the
other bodies that remain in the river at this time.
So far, CNN has been told that there are 14 people who are unaccounted for, and in fact, four individuals are believed to be pinned within the plane.
So, this is something that recovery teams will be working on throughout the day as they're trying to reunite the remains of these individuals with
their loved ones back here in Washington.
GIOKOS: Yeah, absolutely. Just tragedy in terms of what we're seeing right now. In the meantime, President Trump blaming DEI hires and the Biden
Administration for those but no evidence was offered to back this claim up. What has the response been a day after those allegations?
SAENZ: Well, there has been some criticism, especially from members of the previous Biden Administration, about President Trump's attempts to
baselessly claim that this collision was caused by democratic policies before and by those diversity, equity and inclusion policies.
You saw the Former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg post on social media saying that the president was lying and should be focused on leading
instead he talked about how the Transportation Department under his watch had really been focused on safety, air safety in this country, but
certainly for President Trump, this was something that he really grabbed on to yesterday.
Now he also spoke very briefly with reporters a bit later in the afternoon as he was signing some executive orders and he was -- this was the answer
that he gave when he was asked whether he would visit this site at Reagan National.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a plan to go visit the site?
TRUMP: I have a plan to visit not the site. Because what you tell me, what's the site? The waters?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- first responders down there?
TRUMP: I don't have a plan to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAENZ: Now President Trump did say that he plans to meet with the families of these victims who were aboard either that army helicopter or the
passenger plane, but it's unclear when exactly that type of meeting might take place.
GIOKOS: Arlette Saenz, thank you so much for that update. Israel says it has received the latest list of hostages to be released by Hamas on
Saturday, and all three are men, including the father of two small children who Hamas claims were killed along with his wife in an Israeli air strike
after they were abducted in the October 7th, 2023 terror attacks.
And today we're waiting for word on when Israel will reopen the Raffa border crossing between Gaza and Egypt, which is part of the ceasefire
deal. It's been closed for civilian crossings since May of last year. An Israeli official tells CNN it is expected to open by the end of the week.
We've got Paula Hancocks with us to discuss all these new developments. Paula, importantly, what do we know about the hostages?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Eleni, there will be three hostages that will be released tomorrow, all men, for example, the first one is an
Israeli American. This is Keith Seigel. He was taken from his Kibbutz, from his home, along with his wife. Now his wife was released back in November
2023 as part of the first hostage deal.
Also, Ofer Kalderon, he was taken with two of his children at the time. They were 11 and 16. They also were released back in 2023. And then we have
Yarden Bibas. Now the Bibas family have really become symbolic in Israel, that they are the symbols of this hostage crisis, notably because he was
kidnapped with his wife and two young boys. Now, the youngest boy was just nine months old when he was kidnapped.
Now, Hamas has claimed that they the mother and the two sons were killed in an Israeli air strike. Yarden himself was made to do a hostage video
blaming the Israeli Prime Minister for this.
[09:10:00]
So, at this point, we're hearing from the family of Yarden Bibas saying that they have mixed emotions, and they are facing extremely complex days
as Yarden may be released or is expected to be released tomorrow, but still nothing definitive about the mother and sons.
GIOKOS: Moving on to what we've been hearing in terms of the Rafah border crossing, and was -- it was a key archery, and the only way to get -- you
know, get in between Egypt and Rafah that should be open. Is this for medical evacuations. Are we going to see aid coming through. What are we
expecting on that front?
HANCOCKS: So, what we've just heard from the Palestinian Health Ministry is that they believe it will be open tomorrow, so from Saturday, and they are
saying it will be open specifically for medical evacuations. It doesn't mean that aid can't go the other way, but they're working in conjunction
with the W.H.O. the World Health Organization, and they're hoping that 50 medical evacuations, 50 patients, will be able to come out tomorrow.
They'll be bused across the border into Egypt and then on to wherever they will be treated. It is significant because the U.N. believes there's some
12,000 patients who are urgent medical evacuations. This isn't you know considering the amount of injured people in Gaza at this point, 2,500 of
those are children.
We've heard the U.N. Secretary General saying that those 2,500 children have to be coming out of Gaza urgently because they need this treatment.
And it has been shut since May 2024. And since that point, you've had about 450 patients coming through since that long ago. So, it's crucial that this
crossing is opened, and it's certainly a step in the right direction.
GIOKOS: Absolutely. I mean, we've been covering just how many patients were able to evacuate into Egypt since the start of the war, until the point
where it closed. I want to talk about Lebanon. Israel strikes in the Becca Valley in Lebanon. You know, people are looking at this and questioning --
you know the how fragile the cease fire is right now? Israel doesn't want to remove its army from the southern parts of Lebanon. What's the update on
that front?
HANCOCKS: So, the latest is that we understand from Israel that they've carried out air strikes in the Becca Valley. This is a long way from where
their troops are currently stationed at this point, it's deep into Lebanese territory. They say that they were targeting Hezbollah infrastructure. They
say it was underground infrastructure.
It was part of the smuggling route to get weapons back to Hezbollah, and that's why they targeted this area. But of course, it comes just a couple
of days after they were supposed to have withdrawn from Lebanon January 26th but they agreed with the United States that they could keep troops in
Southern Lebanon for longer, until mid-February.
Because they said that the Lebanese army simply wasn't ready to take over these areas, and they didn't want to leave them open for Hezbollah to move
back in. So, it is just another reminder of how incredibly fragile this ceasefire north of the Israeli border is.
GIOKOS: All right, we're watching these developments very closely. Great to have you with us to take us through all those lines. Paul Hancocks, for us.
Israel has banned the United Nations Relief and Works Agency UNRWA from operating in Israel and parts of Jerusalem and is severely restricting its
activities in the occupied territories.
If fully implemented, this would effectively cut off the group's ability to operate in Gaza. The UNRWA Chief says the Israeli actions will have
disastrous consequences. And now I'm joined by Juliette Touma UNRWA, Director of Communications who is in Aman, Jordan.
Juliette, thank you so much for joining us today. I want to start off with the news that this ban forbids contact between Israeli officials and UNRWA.
We know from Britain and France and Germany they've reiterated their concern over this. What impact is this going to have on your operations?
How will you be able to conduct your work if you're not able to communicate with officials there?
JULIETTE TOUMA, UNRWA DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: So, we still don't know what this actually means, because to date, we've not received any
communication from the Government of Israel on how they will implement this ban.
GIOKOS: So yeah -- so you don't know yet, right at this point in time? What are you expecting in terms of how this will be implemented overall? How are
you preparing for that eventuality?
TOUMA: Look at this stage, our focus is to stay and deliver across the occupied West Bank, including Jerusalem as one example. Our health teams
are in the clinics. They're providing primary health care, supplies and consultations in the Gaza Strip.
[09:15:00]
Our teams are across the Gaza Strip, distributing aid, bringing that very vital aid into Gaza.
GIOKOS: But back to the question about whether your communications with Israel and the Israeli government have been cut off. Are you currently in
communication -- still in communication with the Israeli government?
TOUMA: There's been no change on the ground. Operationally, yes, we continue to bring in supplies to Gaza, and we have not received
communications from the government on how they plan to implement this bill.
GIOKOS: All right -- you're still talking clearly as we wait more news on that, but I want to go into what we heard last year that Israel accusing
UNRWA of having Hamas members, resulting in countries around the world halting funding after the investigation, there were nine members that were
linked to Hamas.
Israel's Foreign Ministry is now accusing UNRWA of being, quote, infested with Hamas terror activity. What is your response to that?
TOUMA: So, look, we've received those claims almost exactly one year ago, and there was an investigation that the U.N. highest investigative body in
New York did and concluded, and the outcomes of that investigation is that in the case of nine staff members of UNRWA.
There might have been the possibility that they have participated in the horrors of seven of October, if the evidence would be authenticated or
corroborated, which it was not, despite that UNRWA fired these staff members.
GIOKOS: The Israeli Foreign Minister spokesperson also wrote, quote, there are multiple alternative organizations to UNRWA that are already operating
to facilitate humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip, and their role will only increase. It is a shame that some international political players seem to
care more about UNRWA than the issue of humanitarian aid itself.
What is UNRWA stance to this? What do you say to this? Do you believe that UNRWA can be replaced by other aid organizations?
TOUMA: UNRWA cannot be replaced by another organization. For example, no other United Nations agency provides schooling in United Nations schools,
only UNRWA does that. The same applies to primary healthcare. Also in Gaza, we have the largest footprint. We have more than 5000 people working for
the agency.
We have a huge reach across the Gaza Strip. And we also have the trust of the communities in Gaza. The second largest U.N. agency, just as an
example, has over 200 people working for them in Gaza.
GIOKOS: How does -- a woman who was displaced with her family from near Khan Younis told CNN, she said this, we rely on God and then UNRWA. What
are you hearing from Gazans who rely so heavily on UNRWA and your aid? There are so many questions here.
Firstly, there's a big question around whether Israel - this is part of Israel's efforts to remove UNRWA from Gaza. And I'm wondering, while you're
still in communication now, things are going on as normal. If you stop that communication, could you give me insight of what that would look like for
Palestinians in Gaza right now?
TOUMA: So, if UNRWA is banned from working in Gaza, from bringing in much needed supplies into Gaza, this will have a serious impact on the
ceasefire, and which is already very fragile, as you know, so the risks to the implementation of the ceasefire are very high.
And so, this is exactly why we need to bring in supplies, and we need to maintain the coordination with the Israeli authorities to coordinate
bringing in supplies that also includes fuel, by the way, for people who need us most.
GIOKOS: Yeah.
TOUMA: At the moment, we've reached only since the ceasefire started, more than 600,000 people with aid and food.
GIOKOS: Can you confirm that your -- that all of your international staff have already left Gaza after their visas expired, but local Palestinian
employees of UNRWA are still working.
TOUMA: No, our international staff, who are normally based in occupied East Jerusalem, they indeed have left on the 29th of January, just a couple of
days ago, when their visas expired.
[09:20:00]
UNRWA continues to have international personnel in the Gaza Strip, however.
GIOKOS: All right. Juliette Touma, thank you so much for your insight today. Thanks for joining us. And still to come, growing questions on why
two aircraft could collide in midair, a highly controlled airspace near Washington. We'll be back after this. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back, and we're learning more about the final moments before a U.S. army helicopter collided with a passenger plane. According to
new reporting in the "New York Times", the helicopter may have deviated from its approved flight path near Washington.
And you see the helicopter coming in from the left here in this exclusive CNN video. "The Times" reports, the Black Hawk may have been flying higher
than it should have been. U.S. Senator Tammy Duckworth, an army veteran who flew Black Hawks, spoke to CNN about this critical issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): This -- particular Black Hawk was under visual flight rules. They had to be providing the separation with the landing
aircraft. They were responsible for it. They acknowledged the instructions from air traffic control that they would look out for the aircraft.
And at this point I need to know, you know, from the FAA and from the NTSB investigators who departed from their route because that airport, that
Black Hawk, needed to be hugging that eastern riverbank of the Potomac, and the regional jet, of course, was on short final for, I believe, runway
three, three.
And so, at some point they converged on each other and lost that lateral separation. And we need to see who drifted into whose flight path.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. CNN's Natasha Bertrand is following the story for us from the Pentagon. And I remember the transport secretary yesterday saying
that both the plane as well as the Black Hawk were on the correct flight path, but clearly, they weren't, because something went dramatically wrong
here.
What more are we learning about "The New York Times" reporting? And what have you learned more about how this collision could have happened?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well, President Trump said in a post on Truth Social just a few minutes ago that the helicopter
was flying too high, and that is not something that the Pentagon is confirming at this point. Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, you went on
Fox just a few minutes ago as well after Trump posted that post on Truth Social.
And he said that while the investigation is looking at whether this helicopter was flying too high, whether it was on the appropriate flight
path. There is no definitive information yet on just what happened here and if the helicopter actually did something wrong.
And so, this is why they need to get that black box on the Black Hawk, because it is going to give them really important information about not
only what the helicopter was doing, but also who was actually piloting it at the time.
[09:25:00]
According to Hegseth they have not yet recovered that recording device just yet, they are working on it. But army officials here in the building,
they're really urging caution at this point, because it is so unclear still what exactly happened here. Now we know that this Black Hawk was on a
pretty routine training mission.
And the two pilots who were actually in the Black Hawk had quite a bit of flight hours between them, the instructor pilot had around 1000 flight
hours, and the other pilot, the co-pilot who was receiving that instruction, already had about 500 flight hours. So, they were not
unfamiliar with this flight path.
They were not junior pilots. They were fairly experienced. So now the question is also going to center on, was there something obstructing their
visibility? Were they wearing night vision goggles, which some pilots have told us could sometimes affect your depth perception and impede the way
that you actually see things going on around you, in particular when you're flying over a bright city?
So, all of these things are going to be looked at. And we should note that only two of those crew members on board that Black Hawk have been recovered
at this point, and their identities are that we are reporting our Chief Warrant Officer to Andrew Eaves. He was the instructor pilot.
And the Crew Chief, Ryan O'Hara, who would have been sitting in the back of the helicopter, kind of making sure that everything was going according to
plan technically. So still waiting for answers here. But obviously the president seems to be getting a little bit ahead of where the army is at
this point.
GIOKOS: All right. Natasha Bertrand thanks so much. Still ahead, President Trump could impose tariffs on U.S. imports as soon as Saturday. What that
means for your wallet? That's coming up after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back. I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi, and you're watching "Connect the World". The U.S. Federal Reserve's go to inflation gage heated
up again in December, the personal consumption expenditures price index rose to an annual rate of 2.6 percent in December.
That's up from November's 2.4 percent according to newcomers Department data released Friday. And that was driven in part by rising food and energy
prices and inflation could be affected by President Trump's impending tariffs plan. Right. Let's check in to see the market open in the United
States set for a positive start, and that is on the back of Apple's earnings.
[09:30:00]
And of course, this inflation number that was just released, co-inflation, in fact, for December, year on year was 2.8 percent. There we go. That is
the start of trade today, a bit of a boost after a very volatile week, specifically on the tech stock front, things seem to be settling a little
bit, even though the latest inflation number could be pointing towards a bit of a delay on further cuts by the Federal Reserve.
Now, tariffs on U.S. imports could be coming up as soon as Saturday, that's tomorrow. President Trump has threatened to impose tariffs as high as 25
percent on countries like China, Mexico and Canada by February 1st. Mr. Trump says his plan will raise revenue, bring trade into balance and force
rival countries to the negotiating table.
For more, I'm now joined by Michael Froman. He is the President of the Council on Foreign Relations and a Former United States Trade
Representative under the Obama Administration. Mike, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.
MICHAEL FROMAN, PRESIDENT OF COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Yeah.
GIOKOS: A lot of announcements over the past two weeks, I have to say, and everyone's watching what it means for tariffs and for the global economy.
So tomorrow could bring with it tariffs for Canada, for Mexico, for China, 25 percent or so. For people watching this, is this going to be positive or
negative for inflation, given we've just had the inflation number out?
FROMAN: Well, first of all, I think we should say that there's still a lot of uncertainty about what actually is going to happen tomorrow and in the
coming weeks, does the president go ahead and announce tariffs against which countries and at what level. Are they imposed right away, or is are
they announced with the intent of starting a negotiation with each of the countries around various issues?
And then, of course, ultimately, do they get imposed? And are there exceptions for important sectors? And all of that will affect how consumers
are affected by this. For example, in the U.S., we import about $75 billion a year of agricultural products from Mexico and Canada.
Grocery stores operate on a very narrow margin, and so if their prices go up, then they either are going to have their profits disappear, or they're
going to pass on those price increases to their customers. And as you just reported, while there's still inflation pressures in the United States that
could raise the prices that individual Americans face at the checkout counter.
GIOKOS: Yeah, absolutely. And of course, another exception could be on the oil front. So, it's not going to be all good. So, look, the economy de
facto tariffs, was a really big point during the elections. And of course, this really pushed forward the Trump agenda for the people in the Rust
Belt, for the blue-collar workers, everyone's looking at this, and everyone's hoping for a much lower inflationary environment.
We know when you become a lot more protectionist, that helps grow the local economy and local manufacturing. But of course, there are tradeoffs. How
are you calculating this? How should the American be looking at these new policies?
FROMAN: Well, let's take a look at those workers that you were just mentioning. And many of them are in the auto and auto parts sector. And we
have a fully integrated auto sector between the United States, Canada and Mexico. And so, a car that gets sold in the United States imported from,
let's say, Mexico, the parts may cross the border seven or eight times in the production of that car.
If tariffs are imposed, 25 percent tariffs are imposed on auto parts every time they come in from Mexico, that car is going to be more expensive. It's
going to make those cars made in the Rust Belt by the Big Three and others less competitive, more expensive. And that's going to hurt, you know, their
prospects and their competitiveness as well.
So, I think you have to look sector by sector as you mentioned, will oil and gas be exempted? How will we deal with the integrated auto sector? How
do we deal with issues like agriculture and food and the products that low- income Americans rely on being imported from other countries.
GIOKOS: Yeah, I mean, you worked under the Obama Administration. And, you know, multilateralism, globalization was paramount at that point. You know,
the question of whether this serves the American people was always something that many presidents were looking at, but it really was unraveled
by President Trump in his first term.
Why do you think Americans have turned their backs on multilateralism and globalization? Do you believe the policies that you represented are just
not working for America?
FROMAN: I think there is a view that the international rules-based system which the U.S. had created largely after the Second World War and benefited
enormously from in general, as did the whole world. But particularly with the advent of China and its integration into the global economy, there was
a view that the rules-based system wasn't working for the United States anymore because China was following a different set of rules.
[09:35:00]
And so there was a big reaction against that, one thing I think domestically we have to focus on is that we've never really focused enough
attention, both Democratic and Republican administrations, on the domestic policies that we need to ensure that workers can survive and thrive in a
rapidly changing economy, whether that change is coming from globalization or from technology or from immigration.
Most dislocation in the economy comes from technology, but certainly trade or globalization plays a certain role, and we need to do a better job of
making sure our workers have the protections they need and have the tools that they need to be able to survive and thrive in that kind of economy.
GIOKOS: So, Michael, before I let you go, because I'm sure you have thoughts on this. You know, Secretary of State Marco Rubio was saying that
President Trump was not joking with showing his interest for Greenland. And we also know that Panama Canal is something that, you know, the U.S. and
the Trump Administration has its eye on.
What do you make of that? And do you believe that the U.S. is ostracizing itself on some of its key allies?
FROMAN: You know, I think when you look at what President Trump says, sometimes he's very unconventional in his approach, but there's oftentimes
a bit of a grain of truth underneath what he has to say. So, let's decide whether we should take over the Panama Canal.
Should we be concerned about China's influence in Latin America, including in infrastructure, including in ports? Yes, we probably should be. Should
we be concerned about Arctic security and how Russia and China are working together to ensure that they're well positioned if the polar caps melt and
that becomes a major new trade route?
Yeah, we should be focused on it that as well. That doesn't mean necessarily that we should seek to take over Greenland or the Panama Canal,
but my sense is that this is the beginning of a negotiation. Secretary, Rubio is going to Panama in the coming days. And we'll begin to have a
conversation about how to ensure that the Western Hemisphere, other parts of the world, are safe and secure for U.S. interests.
GIOKOS: Yeah, well, Michael Froman, great to have you on. Good to see you again. Much appreciated. And still to come, thousands protest in Germany as
conservative lawmaker's side with the country's far right to try and restrict immigration. We've got a live report for you from Berlin. That is
coming up next. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: This hour, German lawmakers are voting on a proposal that would tighten controls on immigration. On Wednesday, Conservative Leader
Friedrich Merz won a motion in Parliament about immigration with the support of Germany's party of the far right, breaking a long held political
taboo.
On Thursday, thousands of people protested outside the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Party on in Berlin. Fred Pleitgen joins us now from
the German parliament in Berlin. Fred, bring us up to speed. What do we know about this bill and who is opposed to it?
[09:40:00]
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Eleni. Well, this is actually turning into a bit of a cliffhanger here in German
parliament. In fact, the vote on all of this was supposed to happen several hours ago. What I'm hearing right now is apparently the members of
parliament are gathering now to table that vote and to bring it to a vote here in the plenary of the German parliament.
So, as you can see, this is very controversial among the political parties that are inside parliament, but certainly among the German public as well.
Now you're absolutely right to say this was tabled by the leader of the conservative movement, Friedrich Merz, who could also become Germany's next
chancellor after the upcoming elections.
It's called the -- in Germany, which essentially means the influx curbing law, meaning that Germany, in the future, will want to curb migration into
this country rather than managing migration, which is in the current law. Another thing that this law also seeks to do, as well as strengthen the
German Federal Police to help stop illegal border crossings into Germany as well.
That also is somewhat of a conservative thing as well. So, on the face of it, for most members of parliament, a lot of these things are not
controversial, but the controversial thing is, is that in the first reading of this law, a majority was achieved with the help of the far-right
Alternative for Germany, or AFD.
That is certainly something that the Social Democrats here among Olaf Scholz, of course, the German chancellor and the Green Party say they
cannot live with. They say they cannot justify and ratify a law if it happens with the votes of the Alternative for Germany. So, it's definitely
a huge controversial issue here.
It was quite interesting to see, because the leader of the Conservative Friedrich Merz, he came out a little earlier, a couple of minutes ago, and
he gave a speech where he said, Look, everything in this law is common sense. You agree with everything that is in this proposal.
But at the same time, you say you cannot vote for it because the wrong people, because the AFD are voting for it, whereas the other side is
saying, how can we trust someone like Friedrich Merz if he cannot even be trusted on this issue? Before all of this took place, the parties, except
for the AFD, said that they were not going to push through any legislation if the AFD were to have to help push that legislation through.
So, this is a big topic here in German parliament, as you can see by the fact that it's been severely delayed to even come to this vote. But it is
also, of course, something that is very controversial in German society. You have had protests in front of the headquarters of the Conservative
Party.
At the same time, you've also had some polls here in Germany suggesting that most citizens here in this country do want tighter regulations on
migration here for this country.
GIOKOS: So, Fred --
PLEITGEN: And that bill that you're hearing, by the way, is the parliamentarians being called to do that vote.
GIOKOS: OK, so while we watching voting now, perhaps about to start, quickly on the protests, and we've got some of those images, who is
opposing this bill, or are they opposing?
PLEITGEN: Yeah.
GIOKOS: Tell me about the protest action generally.
PLEITGEN: Well, there's a lot of groups that are actually opposing all of this. First of all, it is the Social Democratic Party and the Green Party
say that they are not necessarily opposed to what's in the law, but the way that this law is being pushed through parliament with the help of the
Alternative for Germany.
They say that that is something that should not happen in a country with the history of Germany. But there are also other groups, pro migration
groups, but also the Catholic Church and the Lutheran church here in this country, who also say that they oppose some of the things that are in this
law.
Now, you have had those protests that have been happening outside of the party headquarters. There's also protests that are happening in front of
some of the government buildings. But also, quite frankly, in some other places, in Germany as well, in state capitals across the board.
And at the same time, you do have polls here in this country that do suggest that migration, first of all, is a huge issue for voters as this
country moves to a federal election on February 23rd and that most Germans do want tighter regulation of migration. Do want fewer people to come here
into this country.
Of course, one of the things that we also have to point out is that Germany has taken in millions of people over the past decade or so. At the same
time, the country right now also in an economic crisis as well, Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right. Brilliant update. Thank you so much, Fred. And as you can see on your screen, some of the protest action, as well as scenes from
inside of Parliament as lawmakers vote on those immigration restrictions. We'll bring you an update later on. But for now, we're going to a very
short break. "World Sport" is up next. Stay with us. I'll be back at the top of the hour.
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