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Connect the World
New Details on Deadly Midair Collision in Washington, D.C.; Military Helicopter May Have Been Flying Too High; Remembering the Lives Lost in Washington Aviation Disaster; Trump Baselessly Links DEI Initiatives to Air Disaster; Palestinians Return to Devastation in Northern Gaza; FAA Closes Helicopter Routes Near Reagan National After Crash; Rafah Border Crossing Expected to Open by End of Week; Israel Pauses 2-Year-Old Girl's Medical Evacuation from Gaza; German Lawmakers Vote on Immigration Restrictions; Contentious Hearings for Trump's Most Controversial Nominees. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 31, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:13]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to our second hour of CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi.
Now more details have emerged about moments before the plane and helicopter collision in Washington as investigators continue to look for answers. And
President Donald Trump appearing to blame the midair collision on diversity and inclusion practices at the Federal Aviation Administration. Meanwhile,
Hamas releasing the names of three hostages set to be released from Gaza on Saturday, among them an Israeli-American.
We begin this hour with harrowing videos obtained by CNN of Wednesday's deadly midair collision near Washington, D.C. And they show new angles of
the worst U.S. air disaster in almost a quarter century.
We want to warn you they show the moment of impact and are tough to watch. In this first video, you can see the Black Hawk helicopter enter the left
side of your screen, moving towards the American Airlines jet on the right. A bright explosion erupts and both aircraft spin out of control and plunge
into the Potomac River.
The second video showing the helicopter moving along the river with the plane on its final approach to the runway, and you can even see the light
from the helicopter shining on the water. And then the collision and explosion, sending both aircraft into the river, killing 67 people. At this
hour dive teams are battling zero visibility and frigid water as recovery efforts resume in the river, and they're searching for what at last report
are the 14 remaining victims.
And we're learning that one day before Wednesday's deadly collision, another plane had to abort its landing at Reagan National Airport because a
helicopter was near its flight path.
CNN's Arlette Saenz is at our Washington bureau. Natasha Bertrand is at our Pentagon. And of course, giving us all perspectives here.
Arlette, I want to start off with you. Recovery efforts that we just explained, really difficult night right now. Lack of visibility. Frigid
conditions. What is the latest on that?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Eleni, those recovery teams are expected to get back to work this morning as they are trying to recover the
bodies of some of the victims who had died in this passenger plane and helicopter collision.
Now, those efforts were suspended overnight, and they were planning to bring in a crane. One source told us to not just remove some of the debris
that could potentially help with this investigation, but also to help find some of those who remain unaccounted for.
Now, CNN was told last night that there were at least 14 people who had been missing, unaccounted for. Four of those individuals who were
unaccounted for were believed to still be pinned within the plane. So perhaps that is something that the crane could help with. Also, while they
have recovered the remains of one of the soldiers who was in that Black Hawk Army helicopter, there are still two others who have yet to be
recovered.
And so that will be a key focus for these recovery teams today. It is expected to be raining in the Washington, D.C. area over the course of the
day. It's unclear whether the weather could potentially impede or have any impact on these operations, but officials have said that they are confident
they will be able to recover all of these individuals, as so many families are now waiting to be reunited with the remains of their loved ones.
GIOKOS: Yes, absolutely. Arlette, stay with me.
I want to ask a question to Natasha. The "New York Times" reporting that the Black Hawk may have strayed from its designated flight path. What are
we learning?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is something that is still under investigation by the Army, by NTSB, by the
FAA. We don't know at this point whether it was not on the approved flight path. And that is something that Army officials are urging a lot of caution
with just because they have not retrieved the black box from the Black Hawk helicopter, which is going to be able to tell them a lot more information
about exactly what went wrong here.
We're also hearing, of course, though, from President Trump, who posted earlier this morning on Truth Social that the Army helicopter was flying
way too high. Again, that is something that even Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth won't confirm at this point. He was on FOX earlier today, and he
said that the altitude of that helicopter at the time of the collision and just before is still being investigated.
[10:05:02]
So still a lot of unanswered questions here. What is clear at this point is that this Black Hawk helicopter was on a training mission, a relatively
routine one. The pilots who were on board, they both had a significant number of flight hours between them, about 1500 flight hours. So they were
not inexperienced. They had done this before.
This was a fairly routine training mission, and there is nothing to indicate that, at least from the ATC audio, the air traffic control audio,
that they were under any sort of distress, confused, anything like that because they told the air traffic controller at the time, according to the
audio, that they had the plane in their sights, whether it was the correct plane, whether they just couldn't see the one that was heading straight in
their path, that is something that's going to be investigated as well, Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right. Natasha, Arlette, thank you so much for that update.
All right. We're learning more about some of the lives lost in Wednesday's collision from members of the passenger plane's crew to members of the
figure skating community. Two youth ice skaters, Angela Yang and Sean Kay, and their coach, Alexander Sasha Kirsanov, all from Delaware, were on
board. Kirsanov's wife said Kay and Yang were an amazing team with a big future.
More now from CNN's Kayla Tausche in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Families descending on Reagan National Airport to remember the children, coaches,
crew members, and soldiers all killed in the deadliest air crash on U.S. soil since 2001.
The crew aboard Flight 5342 included Captain Jonathan Campos and First Officer Sam Lilley, the 28-year-old recently engaged to be married. His dad
Timothy saying, "I was so proud of Sam when he became a pilot. Now it hurts so bad, I can't even cry myself to sleep."
Fifty-three-year-old Ian Epstein, one of the two flight attendants on board, remembered by his sister as someone who loved life, traveling,
family, and his job.
SARA NELSON, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Today is heartbreaking, and there are flight attendants all around the world who are identifying with
those two flight attendants, whether they knew them or not.
TAUSCHE: Boston junior skater Spencer Lane returning from training camp in Wichita, posting this photo at takeoff. Lane among nearly a dozen young
skaters on board, according to Golden Skate, rocking leaders across the sport.
DOUG ZEGHIBE, CEO, SKATING CLUB OF BOSTON: It's a close tight bond and I think for all of us we have lost family.
NANCY KERRIGAN, FORMER U.S. OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATER: I've never seen anyone love skating as much as these two, and that's why I think it hurts so much.
TAUSCHE: In the D.C. area, school districts are in mourning and offering resources with students and alumni among the dead. A Virginia congressman
says his district is shattered.
REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): There are several people in our community who are on the plane and passed away, and it's just devastating to our
community.
TAUSCHE: 26-year-old Asra Hussain Raza, graduated with honors, married her college sweetheart, a consultant, she was commuting for a project at
Wichita Hospital. Her father-in-law describes her as someone who went out of her way to help people. A local steamfitters' union lost five members on
board the flight, the trade said in a statement.
Fifteen miles from the crash site, home base for three Army pilots whose Black Hawk collided with the jet. The Pentagon has not released the
identities of the three soldiers from the 12th Aviation Battalion, with a combined 1500 hours of flight training. As the remains of one were pulled
from the Potomac, seen here from Fox 5 D.C., first responders salute this service member's final mission.
Kayla Tausche, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GIOKOS: U.S. President Donald Trump is wasting no time politicizing the tragedy. On Thursday, he baselessly linked diversity, equity and inclusive
initiatives to the fatal air disaster. He also acknowledged that the cause of the collision is yet to be determined.
CNN aerospace analyst Miles O'Brien is among many condemning the president's comments at such an early stage in the investigation. O'Brien
is a licensed pilot who lost an arm in an accident. Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AEROSPACE ANALYST: Let's not forget what it must be like to have lost a loved one and hear this whole -- literally with your loved
ones still underwater, hear it turned into this weird political thing. But as personally, as someone who was a pilot, lost my arm and went through the
process of getting recertified to fly, I can attest to you that I went through every hoop and got over every bar an able bodied individual would,
in order to be recertified to fly.
The FAA simply does not forsake safety in order to include disabilities in the system. I am part of the aviation community because I persevered
through that, and it's an affront to me and all other disabled people to allow that statement to come into play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:10:08]
GIOKOS: CNN's Miles O'Brien there for us.
And we've got Alayna Treene at the White House with more on the president's reaction to the air disaster.
Alayna, what has been the reaction to President Trump's comments?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there has been a lot of reaction, Alayna. Look, I mean, there are still so many unanswered
questions right now about what exactly happened on Wednesday night and what led to that collision. We know local and federal law enforcement and others
within the government are still investigating that crash.
But even so, we did hear the president first yesterday when he came out and spoke publicly at 11:00 a.m. in the White House briefing room and then
later again in the day, arguing that perhaps, and I should say arguing without evidence, that perhaps the policies of the Obama and Biden
administrations and specifically the hiring practices, DEI hiring practices, I should say, could have played a factor here.
I want you to take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do want to point out that various articles that appeared prior to my entering office, and here's one
the FAA's diversity push includes focus on hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities. That is amazing. They put a big
push to put diversity into the FAA's program. Then it's a group within the FAA, another story, determined that the workforce was too white, that they
had concerted efforts to get the administration to change that and to change it immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TREENE: Now, Eleni, one thing to be clear is that some of the things that he was reading out at the podium about the Web site on FAA's Web site, that
is something that we have now seen the new Trump administration take down since he took office. But these are policies that have -- and language that
has been on that Web site back, since back to 2013, including when Donald Trump was first in office. That's one point.
Again, though, I will say that we do not have any evidence to show that the hiring practices or DEI programs specifically may have led to the
collision. We do know as well that the president did sign a memorandum yesterday opening an investigation into how the Biden administration's
policies around DEI played a role in the FAA overall.
But look, I also just want to quickly turn your attention to what we heard from the president directly about today. He suggested on Truth Social that
perhaps the Black Hawk helicopter was flying too high. This is what he posted. He wrote, quote, "The Black Hawk helicopter was flying too high by
a lot. It was far above the 200-foot limit. That's not really too complicated to understand, is it?"
Now, it's unclear whether the president's post was based on an official briefing or if it was perhaps just an opinion that he is offering. But it
does come, as "The New York Times" is reporting, that the helicopter in Wednesday's collision may have been flying outside of its approved flight
path at a higher altitude than it was supposed to be, and at least half a mile off of the approved route.
We also heard from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth this morning saying they just don't know who was maybe in the wrong here, but it does seem like the
altitude and maybe flying at the wrong altitude could have been a factor -- Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you so much for that update.
Well, Israel says it has received the names of three male hostages to be released by Hamas in Gaza Saturday. There are Ofer Kalderon, who has French
and Israeli citizenship, Keith Siegel, an Israeli American, and Yarden Bibas, who was kidnaped along with his wife and young children. Hamas
claims they were killed in an Israeli airstrike.
Meantime, as we await official word from Israel that the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt will reopen, the Palestinian Health
Ministry says medical evacuations through the crossing will begin Saturday. Israel closed it to civilians last May.
When Israel opened the military checkpoints into northern Gaza Monday, hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians headed home. But as Paula
Hancocks shows us, many returned to scenes of utter devastation and brutal reminders of loved ones killed during the war.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The week started with such hope. Around half a million displaced Palestinians heading home to northern
Gaza by any way possible. Once an hour's drive, now a journey that can take days.
[10:15:01]
This woman says, my house is completely destroyed, but I am still returning.
But even knowing their home was gone did not prepare some for the brutal reality of Israel's airstrikes.
If I knew it was like this, I wouldn't have come back, says Hamis Emara (PH).
Emara (PH) says he lost around 50 members of his extended family in the first month of the war. His father and brother are still under this rubble.
He was pulled out alive. He finds his father's medication, his mother's knitting.
I waited so long for a daughter, he says. A week after she was born, she and her mother were gone. I don't even have a photograph of her.
His other brother holds his daughter, who he says has shrapnel in her stomach and leg. He asks his nephew Walid (PH), where is Mama? Walid (PH)
says his mother is in heaven, he says, with his aunts, uncles, grandfather. No one is left.
Memories of home are now of death and trauma. But until he finds and buries his family, Emara (PH) says he will not leave.
My honest advice is do not travel north, he says. There's no sign of life, no electricity, no water, no food.
Fatima Abdel Hadi (PH) agrees. She travelled this week to what was left of her home in Beit Hanoun. She's now returned south to the school she's been
sheltering in for almost a year and a half.
We're so sad about the destruction we saw, she says. It used to be a city. It's now just rubble. We'll stay in this school until they make us leave.
This school, like many used as shelters is run by UNRWA. Israel has now banned the U.N. agency, accusing it of ties to Hamas, an accusation UNRWA
denies.
Najuan (PH) stands in line for food coupons at the school turned shelter. She says if it wasn't for UNRWA, we would not survive, from education to
health to food.
Israel says UNRWA's role in Gaza will be phased out and replaced by other U.N. agencies.
The celebrations of the ceasefire just days ago are now a distant memory, replaced by the bitter realization that all they knew has gone.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: All right. We have some breaking news to bring you just in to CNN. U.S. aviation authorities are indefinitely closing helicopter routes around
Reagan National Airports. That's, of course, in the wake of the deadly collision on Wednesday as an American Airlines flight was coming in for a
landing there. We'll have more on that story in just a moment. To repeat, FAA indefinitely closing helicopter routes near Reagan National Airport.
All right. Ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD, more on those medical evacuations through the Rafah border crossing now set to begin on Saturday. We'll take
a closer look at people in desperate need of medical help, and why any delays could prove deadly. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:20:45]
GIOKOS: All right. Welcome back. And we're following breaking news. Just a few moments ago, the U.S. aviation authorities are indefinitely closing
helicopter routes around Reagan National Airport. That is the same route that was used at the time of Wednesday night's fatal midair collision. The
FAA official told CNN a short time ago that route has been indefinitely shut down. That route specifically states that the helicopters in the
corridor must be at or below 200 feet above sea level.
We have Arlette Saenz in Washington to give us a bit more insight.
Tell us what more do we know, Arlette.
SAENZ: Yes, Eleni, our colleague Pete Muntean is reporting from an FAA official that the Federal Aviation Administration has shut down that low
altitude helicopter corridor that was being used on Wednesday night for an indefinite period of time. This really marks perhaps the most significant
action that has been taken since that Army Black Hawk helicopter collided with that American Airlines passenger jet on Wednesday evening.
Now, I want to give you a few more details about this route. It's called Route Four. And it's a specialized corridor that's used by law enforcement,
medevac, military and government helicopters to fly east of Reagan. One requirement in that corridor is that any helicopters using it do not fly
above the altitude of 200 feet.
Now, a bit earlier today, overnight, "The New York Times" had reported that this helicopter had not been on its standard path corridor that had
actually been flying higher than the height, the ceiling, that 200 feet. And so these are all things that investigators will be examining as they
are conducting this investigation.
But the decision to shut down this corridor for an indefinite amount of time is quite significant, especially when you think about how crowded the
skies can be around Reagan National Airport. This is one of the busiest airports, and we've heard over the last 48 hours about how often you have
these passenger aircraft flying into Washington, D.C., into Reagan National, while also there can be helicopters in the area.
So this action from the Federal Aviation Administration is quite significant, and we will see whether it alleviates some of the concerns
that have emerged since this collision that had happened on Wednesday night.
GIOKOS: Absolutely. So to repeat, Route Four, which was used at the time of the collision, has been closed indefinitely. The FAA also saying they're
closing another helicopter route known as Route One, south of the Key Bridge that connects Georgetown neighborhood of D.C., Rosslyn, Virginia, as
well.
And then importantly, when we talk about the congestion in the air that it's one of the busiest in terms of what we see, I mean, there's so much
going on, three airports and so forth. We also had reporting, and we're learning that there was also a close call between a helicopter and a plane.
I think about a day before this actual collision. What do we what do we know about this? Because clearly they're doing -- this is a big move, as
you say, really important for safety purposes clearly.
SAENZ: Yes. It's very clear that this is a concern for federal officials as they are trying to game out, not just what happened in this incident, but
how to prevent these incidents from happening in the future. Now, we have learned that the night before this collision between that army helicopter
and that American Airlines passenger jet, that there was actually another close call as a passenger jet was descending into Reagan National Airport.
That pilot said that they had to abort their initial landing because they saw a helicopter in view. So these are all concerns that federal officials
will have as they are planning out the next steps, especially around this heavily congested airport.
GIOKOS: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much for bringing us more insight into the FAA's decision to close down that route that was used on
Wednesday night.
[10:25:01]
We will bring you more as it comes. Clearly, a fast developing story here. Thank you so much.
Moving on now on the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt is expected to reopen. A vital route to get injured civilians out of Gaza,
including the more than 12,000 patients there who have been waiting for urgently needed medical evacuations, according to the United Nations. The
Palestinian Health Ministry now saying some medical evacuations will begin tomorrow.
I want to bring in CNN's Jomana Karadsheh, who's closely following all of these developments from Amman, Jordan.
Jomana, an important move to get Rafah open again for medical evacuations. It's a story that we were covering from the beginning and the start of this
war and a lifeline for so many of the desperately injured Palestinians.
Tell me what you're hearing and how logistically it's going to work tomorrow.
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Eleni, this is something, of course, that is happening following the ceasefire and hostage release deal.
That was part of that agreement. And this is something, as you mentioned, so many in Gaza who are in need of urgent medical treatment abroad have
been waiting for desperately for a long time.
We are hearing from the Palestinian Ministry of Health, as well as the World Health Organization, that the crossing is going to reopen on Saturday
and that medical evacuations will begin with 50 patients crossing that border. But if you put that number into context, you know, as you mentioned
earlier, there are at least 12,000 people who have been waiting for life- saving medical treatment outside of Gaza.
The Israeli authorities have told us in the past that in recent months, they say that they've facilitated the evacuations of more than a thousand
Palestinian patients for treatment out of Gaza. But if you look at the U.N. figures, since the closure of the Rafah crossing in May of 2024, less than
500 patients have been able to get out and there has been no medical evacuations in more than two weeks.
And so, you know, this is something that so many have been waiting for. And there are so many international aid groups that have been telling us how
difficult the process is and has been for them to try and get patients out. They are ready, they are willing, and they are prepared to begin these
evacuations. And you also have many countries that are prepared and ready for this. All they have been waiting is for the permission from Israel, for
this agreement to happen, for this moment to happen, to be able to carry out these evacuations.
And as we heard from the secretary general of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, yesterday in a post on X, saying that 2,500 children need to be
evacuated immediately for urgent medical treatment.
GIOKOS: Yes, and it's a staggering number, Jomana. And given that there's just very little option for proper medical assistance, a scary thought.
I want to talk about Habiba al-Askari, a 2-year-old little girl, and you've been reporting on her. And I want to show our viewers just what she's been
going through.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARADSHEH (voice-over): This is Habiba. She's just 2 years old, but Habiba may not have long to live. What you're seeing all over her body, doctors
believe, is caused by a rare genetic condition, protein C deficiency. It causes excessive blood clotting, which spreads all over her body.
What's spreading through her body doubled in size or even more in a matter of minutes, her mother Rana says. I saw the blood starting in one arm and
spreading to the other.
Habiba is in so much pain, she can't eat or sleep. Leave me alone, leave me alone, she cries. Even her mother's gentle touch is too much. She says Mama
Wawa or ouch, and I can't do anything for her, Rana says.
Habiba's condition is rare, but it could be treated, just not in Gaza, where health care has been decimated by Israel, where medical workers have
been left with little to save lives. And parents like Rana left helpless as they watch their children suffer and die a slow death.
She tells me, mama, help me stand up. Mama, I want to walk. I want to put my shoes on, so I can go bye-bye, Rana says. She wants to play. She can't
even do the most basic things like hold her pacifier.
This was Habiba just a few months ago. Her mother says she was a happy child, so full of life.
[10:30:04]
Now she lies motionless on a hospital bed. Surgical gloves turn into balloons to try and cheer her up.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Jomana, really difficult to watch that. What is her status right now? Will she be evacuated? balloons to try and cheer her up.
Johanna, really difficult to watch that. What is her status right now? Will she be evacuated?
KARADSHEH: Well, Eleni, following that report, the case of Habiba al-Askari came to the attention of Jordanian authorities, who decided to evacuate her
out to Amman for medical treatment here, urgent life-saving treatment, as you can see there, that she needs. And the Jordanians who launched their
military this week began this humanitarian air bridge delivering aid into Gaza, prepared a plan. They set a plan in place. They were ready to
evacuate her out of Gaza. But officials are telling us the last minute Israeli authorities delayed that evacuation.
We reached out to COGAT. That's the Israeli official body that coordinates these permissions and movements, and who in the past have told us that
Habiba had gotten permission to receive medical treatment abroad, that they had given her that permission, but that they were waiting for a third
country to take her. We asked them repeatedly over the past three days about this delay, and we contacted them just a few hours ago, again asking
for the reason for this delay, but they have not responded to us.
And during this time, you know, while the Jordanians are telling us that they are continuing to push, that they are ready to move immediately to get
her out when they are given that green light, Habiba's situation has deteriorated significantly. She was admitted into intensive care on
Thursday with a lung infection. We have been speaking with foreign volunteer doctors who are by her side in Gaza, as well as local doctors who
are scrambling to try and keep her alive.
And what they're saying right now is that she is suffering from so many complications that they can't even assess and understand what is happening
in her body. They can't diagnose that because they don't have the means to do that in Gaza, let alone try and provide her with the treatment that
would save her life. They are trying their best, they say, but the only way they believe that Habiba's life could be saved is an immediate medical
evacuation out.
But I can tell you, hearing from these doctors, they are incredibly emotional, as you can imagine, by her side trying to do their best, but
they just feel helpless right now that they are watching this child suffer and die a slow death and they are unable, they say, to do anything for her,
and they are warning that they fear she may only have days left.
GIOKOS: It's heartbreaking, Jomana. Time is running out and absolutely heartbreaking to see these images. Thank you so much for bringing us the
story.
And still to come, no survivors, only questions after the deadly collision between an American Airlines jet and an Army helicopter. Now the first
significant change by the government since the worst U.S. airline disaster in decades. We'll bring you the update after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:35:45]
GIOKOS: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Eleni Giokos. Here are your headlines.
U.S. aviation authorities are indefinitely closing helicopter routes around Reagan National Airport. That's in the wake of the deadly collision on
Wednesday, as an American Airlines flight was coming in for a landing there. Meantime, searchers are continuing their efforts in the Potomac
River today. A source tells CNN as of Thursday evening, 14 of the 67 victims still hadn't been recovered.
We're following that breaking news from the FAA closes that route around Reagan National Airport.
All right. Before that deadly mid-air collision over Washington, D.C., "The New York Times" reporting the Black Hawk helicopter may have been flying
outside its approved flight path and higher than it should have been. The airspace is one of the busiest aviation operation centers in the United
States.
I want to bring in Mark Pierotti. He is the director, professor and fellow of aviation at Abu Dhabi Aviation. He's also a licensed aircraft engineer
and pilot and an author on aviation leadership.
Great to have you with us. Thanks for taking the time.
MARK PIEROTTI, DIRECTOR, PROFESSOR AND FELLOW OF AVIATION, ABU DHABI AVIATION: Hello.
GIOKOS: You know, we're starting to get a lot more information, frankly, the questions on altitude, the question on TCAS system, whether it existed,
who made the mistake. And we've got some of the images of a different side of the way that the collision occurred.
What are you reading into some of the images that you're seeing?
PIEROTTI: So you mentioned TCAS, the traffic collision avoidance system, now military aircraft don't always have TCAS. And the unusual thing about
this is that a military aircraft doing training with night vision goggles in a busy approach to a busy airfield, this is very unusual. And did they
wander out of their flight plan? Did the vision goggles take them out of it? Did the procedures they were following take them out of their planned
flight and into the incursion with the civil jet? This is very possible.
GIOKOS: But then just on the night goggles because when I heard that line that they might have been using night goggles, which, obviously, you know,
impacts your vision, right? And then you get sort of confused about where lights are coming from. Why would you use those in a busy airspace, one of
the most congested in whole of the United States?
PIEROTTI: Yes. So there's reports coming out that the military were doing training. So it might have been night vision goggle training they were
doing. Now it's quite unusual to do training at a very busy civil airfield, especially at the approach. So you're right, wearing the night vision
goggles would create a different environment for the pilots. Maybe they were doing that. Maybe it was training. Maybe they were inexperienced with
the night vision goggles.
GIOKOS: Look, I'm sure out of an abundance of caution, the FAA has closed that specific route. The same route, same flight path, that -- where the
collision occurred indefinitely. We also are learning that there was a close call as well between the helicopter and a plane. You know, what does
this lead you to believe? I mean, do you think it's communications issue? You know, where does it lead us?
PIEROTTI: All over the world there are military operations around civil airfields. It's always sensitive. It's always delicate because the military
operate to different standards in the civil world. So it's always delicate. So maybe that happens more frequently at Reagan Airport because there's a
lot of military activity. There's a lot of military training. And there's also talk of the ATC being a little understaffed. So that may have had an
effect as well.
GIOKOS: Really fascinating. I mean, in terms of the black box, we know that those have been recovered. We're going to learn a lot more. But what can
you tell us about the altitude and the things that you're picking up from what we understand right now?
PIEROTTI: So I'm hearing -- I heard first of all 1500 feet. Then I heard 1200 feet, and then I heard a thousand, and now I'm hearing below 1,000
feet the collision took place. So the helicopters operate underneath the aircraft as they approach. So I'm hearing now that perhaps the aircraft was
low on its approach because it did change runway approach and perhaps the helicopter not fully visual because it was flying under visual flight rules
and it collided straight into the starboard side.
GIOKOS: I mean, can we get that image up and that footage up of the collision itself. Really difficult to watch because you see the impact and
it seems that the helicopter, you know, was flying in sort of the path of where the plane was.
You know, from our perspective and our vantage point, we'll say, well, it's pretty obvious that this was, you know, an accident waiting to happen.
[10:40:06]
Do you think it does come down to visibility?
PIEROTTI: Well, you hear the tower saying to the Black Hawk and Canada Air and CRJ ahead, do you have a visual? And he confirmed he had visual, but if
you look to the video, you'll see there was another aircraft behind the aircraft. Did he mistakenly have visual on the other aircraft?
GIOKOS: And there's the image right now.
PIEROTTI: So at this moment he's asked, do you have visual? And the helicopter replies, yes, he does have visual, but he could have had another
aircraft. And with his night vision goggles on was limited on his vision and collided directly.
GIOKOS: You mentioned that a lot of military aircraft don't have the TCAS system.
PIEROTTI: Yes.
GIOKOS: Do you think that this is a lesson that especially when they're doing these kinds of exercises around busy airports, that TCAS should be
included?
PIEROTTI: Well, TCAS is a system traffic collision avoidance. DSB is another one where aircraft communicate with aircraft. Military aircraft
maybe don't want to communicate with other aircraft. They want to stay clandestine, so they operate to different standards and their design is
different. So it may be difficult to have military aircraft equipped with civilian equipment, but they should have if they're flying in civilian
airspace.
GIOKOS: We're waiting for the investigation. I mean, I think, you know, America as well as the whole world watching this, you know, in absolute
shock. Clearly something that should have been avoided, that shouldn't have actually happened. What are the most important things that investigators
will be looking at right now?
PIEROTTI: So accidents are not one event. There are many events. They'll be looking at the military ops and the civilian aircraft. They'll be looking
at the night vision goggles and doing training in a civilian controlled airfield. They'll be looking at the ATC staff. Were they manned correctly?
They'll be looking at the aircraft that did the approach. They'll be looking at their avionics equipment on both the aircraft, and they'll be
looking at all these together to see and get a picture of everything, and you'll probably find that it wasn't one thing. It was many things.
GIOKOS: Well, we thank you so much for your time and your insights. Thank you for coming here on a Friday night.
PIEROTTI: Pleasure.
GIOKOS: Much appreciated.
PIEROTTI: Thank you.
GIOKOS: Thank you so much.
All right. We're going to a very short break. We'll be right back. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: German lawmakers are voting on a proposal that would tighten controls on immigration. On Wednesday, conservative leader Friedrich Merz
won a motion in parliament about immigration with the support of Germany's party of the far-right, breaking a long held political taboo. On Thursday,
thousands of people protested outside the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Party in Berlin.
Fred Pleitgen joins us now from the German parliament.
Fred, what is the update? What is the latest? Has voting begun?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it has actually begun. What you're seeing behind me is a lot of members of
parliament. We're in the hallways here of the Bundestag, the German parliament, and the voting is actually underway right now. A lot of them
are getting their voting cards. We expect that that's going to end I'd say about five to seven minutes from now. And shortly after that, we should
have a result on whether or not this law has been ratified.
[10:45:05]
But as you can see, Eleni, as this day has progressed, it kept getting longer and longer and longer because new discussions were necessary because
this is such a controversial topic. And if you look at either side of all of this, the conservatives on the one hand, led by Friedrich Merz, but then
of course the more left wing forces led by Chancellor Olaf Scholz and the Green Party is that both of them are saying that essentially the other side
is playing with the credibility of the German parliament and with the credibility of German democracy in general.
Friedrich Merz has said that he believes that these measures are absolutely necessary. He says that these measures are nothing that the majority of the
population wouldn't want as well. He says they are common sense, and just because the AfD is voting for them does not make them wrong. The other
side, especially around the Social Democrats and the Green Party, are saying, look, this crosses a Rubicon that all of the other parties had said
that they would not push through legislation if votes from the Alternative for Germany, the far-right party, were necessary to do so.
So both sides are saying that for them this is a hugely important vote. It's a hugely, possibly consequential vote for them as well. And that is
one of the reasons why it has been so controversial. If we look outside of the walls of the German parliament, there have, of course, been protests in
front of the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Union. But then if you look at the population in general, the polls that we've been seeing
here in Germany and a large part of the population does want stricter rules for immigration, tighter immigration laws and fewer people to be able to
come to this country, especially asylum seekers.
Of course, Germany has taken in millions of people over the past 10 or so years. So in general, the German public is watching this very closely. And
of course, we have to keep in mind that there is a general election coming up in the next couple of weeks here in this country, which of course, many
also believe would be hugely consequential and for which the parties here, of course, are trying to position themselves as well, Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yes. Really interesting. So it's not so much about what the immigration laws are that are being voted on, it's the fact that the AfD
have brought them to parliament.
So let me ask you this. Clearly there's opposition, but do we have a sense in terms of just how much support it does have or opposition it does have
in parliament so we can have an idea of what the outcome could possibly be? As you say, this could be very consequential and even cement AfD in a big
way ahead of elections.
PLEITGEN: Yes. So in any case, the majority that this law is going to get, whether it goes in one direction or the other, whether it gets passed or
not, it's going to be quite slim. What we've seen so far is that the Conservative Party, even together with the Alternative for Germany, with
the right-wing party, and the liberal Democrats, which is another one of the parties that used to be in the government, then left the government,
even they would have only a very slim majority.
And one of the things that we've been talking about here over the course of the day is whether or not there would be members of German parliament from
the conservative wing who might say, look, I simply cannot vote for this because the right-wing Alternative for Germany is voting for it as well.
We've seen a lot of those debates continue here. One of the things that we've also seen is the large parties here in this country, the
conservatives, the Social Democrats and the Green Party getting together and trying to come to some sort of solution to push this bill forward
without losing face, without having to have the AfD put in their share of the vote as well. That was not possible so far, and that is why we are at
the point where we are right now, where we have this hugely consequential vote which is going on in German parliament right now, Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right. Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much. That voting underway right now in Berlin. We'll bring you an update on that as it happens.
And still to come, Capitol Hill showdowns, a few of President Trump's most controversial cabinet nominees are facing hardball questioning, even from
members of their own party. That is coming up right after this. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:50:37]
GIOKOS: The U.S. is dropping hints about how it may pursue future talks between Russia and Ukraine, which the Trump administration has been pushing
for. New U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio was interviewed by talk show host Megyn Kelly on Thursday. Rubio said Kyiv and Moscow need to understand
they'll have to meet in the middle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The president's point of view is this is a protracted conflict and it needs to end. Now it needs to end through a
negotiation and any negotiation both sides are going to have to give something up. I'm not going to pre-negotiate that. I mean, that's going to
be the work of hard diplomacy, which is what we used to do in the world in the past. And we were realistic about it. But both sides in a negotiation
have to give something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Russia holds much of eastern and southern Ukraine, and it's slowly advancing, including in the city of Pokrovsk. But Kyiv has captured a slice
of land in Russia's Kursk region. The U.S. president has said he will meet with Russian leader Vladimir Putin soon, but Mr. Trump has so far not laid
out any specific plan to end the war.
Now the U.S. Senate won't be back in session until Monday after a week that saw three of U.S. President Donald Trump's most controversial nominees
facing grilling during confirmation hearings.
On Thursday the nominee for FBI director, Kash Patel, was pushed on how his vow to whether he's going to prosecute Mr. Trump's so-called deep state
enemies, as well as his skepticism of the January 6th U.S. Capitol attack. But Patel says he opposes some of the president's pardons for January 6th
rioters. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): I concede he has the authority. I'm asking, was he wrong to do it?
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: And as we discussed in our private meeting, Senator, I have always rejected any violence against law
enforcement and I have included in that group specifically addressed any violence against law enforcement on January 6th. And I do not agree with
the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: CNN's Manu Raju has more on the hearings of President Trump's other two nominees. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump's pick of RFK Jr. to lead the Health and Human Services Department, and Tulsi
Gabbard to be the next director of National Intelligence hinge on the ultimate decision by two key Republican senators on how to move forward and
whether they would vote to advance their nominations.
One of the senators, Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, someone who was up in 2026, someone who's got his own primary challenges, but someone who is a
medical doctor, chairman of one of the key committees considering the nomination, and holding a swing vote on another committee that actually a
vote on that nomination. Cassidy was very concerned about RFK Jr.'s refusal, really sidestepping a question that he asked repeatedly.
He wanted him to debunk the false notion that childhood autism is linked to vaccine use. RFK Jr. time and again throughout the hearing would hedged on
his response to that, and that prompted concern from Cassidy at the end of that critical hearing.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): That is why I've been struggling with your nomination. I think I can say that I've approached it using the
preponderance of evidence to reassure and you have approached using selected evidence to cast doubt.
RAJU: Now that you've had your closed hearing, you want to weigh in on Tulsi?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I had to go between two different hearings, so I missed several exchanges that occurred while I was gone. I was just reading
one of them when you interrupted me, so I need to review the entire hearing.
RAJU: The jury is out.
COLLINS: That's correct. I want to make a careful decision.
RAJU: And that last comment came from Senator Susan Collins, who told me after Tulsi Gabbard had testified publicly and had testified behind closed
doors to the Senate Intelligence Committee, that she still was reviewing the testimony and that the jury is still out on what she will ultimately
do.
Collins is a perennial swing vote. If she decides to vote against Tulsi Gabbard, that could stop the nomination in the Senate Intelligence
Committee. Also another person to watch, Senator Todd Young of Indiana. They had a back and forth, Tulsi Gabbard and Young, in their hearing about
the way she has handled Edward Snowden.
[10:55:02]
She had praised Snowden over the years. She's changed her tune as she's got the nomination and said that he broke the law when he leaked all that
classified data. But Democrats and some Republicans alike want her to be more sterner in her repudiation of Snowden. In fact, they wanted her to
call him a traitor. She would not go that far.
There was some back and forth with Todd Young about that topic, and when Young emerged from the hearing, I asked if he's satisfied with Gabbard's
answer about that. He declined to comment.
So those two nominations are one to watch if they do advance to the Senate floor, both Kennedy and Gabbard will have their work cut out for them to
prevent more than three Republican senators from breaking ranks in the full Senate because if they do, that would be enough to stop the nominations
altogether.
Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Well, that's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi. I hope you have a great weekend. Stay with CNN. NEWSROOM is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
