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Oded Lifshitz's Family Confirms Identity of His Remains; Hamas Returns Bodies of Four Israeli Hostages; No Joint Presser with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Trump's Ukraine Envoy after Meeting; Pope's Tests Show "Slight Improvement" in Pneumonia; JD Vance Speaks at Annual Conservative Conference; Germans Head to the Polls This Weekend; Defense Secretary Orders Pentagon to Slash Budget by 8 Percent Yearly. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Welcome to our second hour of the show. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi, where the time is 7:00 in the

evening.

Well, a somber day in the Middle East as Hamas returns the remains of four Israeli hostages from Gaza. One of the deceased has now formally been

identified.

Meanwhile, in Kyiv, high level talks get underway as Keith Kellogg meets President Zelenskyy. This just a day after the U.S. president called Mr.

Zelenskyy a dictator, warning him to move fast or risk losing his country.

And a landmark ruling in Spain as former football chief Luis Rubiales is found guilty of kissing player Jenni Hermoso without consent in a case that

sent shock waves not just around Spain but around the world.

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ANDERSON: Well, Israel's prime minister is vowing revenge against Hamas after the remains of four Israeli hostages were returned to Israel earlier

today. And we've just learned the identity of one of those deceased hostages.

The family of 84 year old Oded Lifshitz confirms that his body is among those returned in the last few hours, releasing this statement saying,

quote, "Five hundred three agonizing days of uncertainty have come to an end."

Oded and his wife were kidnapped on October 7th, 2023. She was released weeks later. All of the remains returned by Hamas from Gaza today are now

at a forensic institute in Tel Aviv.

It's the first time Hamas has released deceased captives since the Hamas led terror attack more than 16 months ago. Nic Robertson walks us through

what has been a dramatic day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): In a convoy freighted with the pain of a nation, the bodies Hamas says are the

youngest October 7th hostage victims and their mother on their final journey home.

And in the fourth Red Cross vehicle, what Hamas says are the remains of one of the oldest October 7th victims, Oded Lifshitz.

The early morning handover beginning against the backdrop of Hamas propaganda turning dignified with a short service as the four caskets

handed over to the IDF, a moment of closure beginning for the families and a nation hostage to the fate of the Bibas', Shiri Bibas' fear, clutching 9-

month-old Kfir and 4-year-old Ariel.

Etched in Israel's collective memory, the young family from Nir Oz became icons for hope over despair. Israel is riding an emotional roller coaster

over their fate.

Worryingly, Shiri, Kfir and Ariel not released with 105 other hostages freed during the first pause in fighting, November 2023. Shiri's husband,

Yarden's fate was also unknown. He too disappeared October 7th, believed taken to Gaza.

The first news of Shiri, Kfir and Ariel coming late 2023 when Hamas claimed they were killed in an Israeli airstrike, releasing a propaganda video,

exploiting emotional sensitivities of Yarden blaming the Israeli government for their deaths. The IDF called it psychological terror.

Months later, this security camera video captured by the IDF, appearing to show Shiri soon after her abduction but until this day, the IDF unable to

confirm the fate of the family, cautioning against Hamas statements.

When Yarden was finally freed by Hamas three weeks ago, everyone in Israel understood the heartbreaking news awaiting him, his father and sister

consoling him against the near certainty of his loss.

Along the convoy route Thursday, flag-waving Israelis paid their respects.

[10:05:03]

Hostage Square somber, not celebratory, as with previous releases, white vans carrying the four on the last leg of their journey to a forensic

institute for final identification. The country, Bibas' and the Lifshitz's fears closer to realization -- Nic Robertson, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And as you were saying, Becky, realization has arrived for the Lifshitz family. And we've had a statement from them now.

And they say, "After 503 agonizing days of uncertainty have come to an end. We hoped and prayed for a different outcome."

They say that this now is the moment where they can begin to move on. It feels, for this particular family, the Lifshitz family, have been through

so much. Oded Lifshitz's wife kidnapped at the beginning, released at the beginning.

He was a figurehead and a leader in his community, helped establish his kibbutz in 1955. He is, if you will, the embodiment of the kibbutz

communities all around Gaza, who were so affected on October the 7th.

The journalists, the journalists who've spoken passionately about the political leadership in Israel, actually, a couple of years ago, saying

they weren't being led in the right direction.

We're hearing from the political leaders today as well, talking about heartbreak but also setting out their political agendas. The prime minister

saying that the blood of these victims cries out for revenge against the murderers and that revenge, he says, we will take. Becky.

ANDERSON: Nic is in Jerusalem.

Nic, for the time being, thank you.

I want to discuss more on this now with CNN political and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid.

And it's good to have you, Barak. And we have heard from the -- not just the prime minister. And I'm going to get to that today but the president of

Israel as well.

He says in part, quote, "The hearts of an entire nation lie in tatters."

He asks for forgiveness for not protecting these people.

Is it your sense that his words, the words of president Isaac Herzog, reflect the mood for most of the country of Israel?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: No doubt. I even think that, president Herzog was a bit understated in his comments.

And you see that in every public opinion poll in Israel in the last few weeks, that the vast majority of Israelis, close to 70 percent, say that

bringing back the hostages in a deal with Hamas is more important than the destruction of this terror group.

It is clear in every poll; you hear it from the families, you hear it from the general public and you hear it also from president Herzog.

ANDERSON: So a somewhat different message then from prime minister Netanyahu. And here that is. Hold on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Every home in Israel bows its head today. We bow our heads for the heavy loss of our four hostages.

We all ache with pain that is mixed with rage.

We are all furious at the monsters of Hamas, before coffins of our loved ones, oblige us more than ever to promise to swear that what happened on

October 7th will never happen again. The voice of the blood of our loved ones cries out to us from the ground. It obliges us to take revenge on the

vile murderers. And we will take revenge on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Your reaction to what you've just heard there?

RAVID: You know, Oded Lifshitz, whose body was returned to Israel today, the 84 year old peace activist who was kidnapped from his home by Hamas, a

peace activist who drove Palestinians from Gaza to hospitals in Israel.

Last November, when there was the first hostage deal, on the last day of the hostage deal, Hamas proposed to release him. He was then alive. Hamas

did not want to release women that it still had in its custody and proposed to release several elderly men, including Mr. Lifshitz.

Israel decided against that and the ceasefire collapsed.

And what happened to Oded Lifshitz afterwards?

We all see today.

ANDERSON: Let's talk about the next stage, then, of what is this latest incarnation of the ceasefire and hostage deal.

[10:10:07]

Where does what we have seen today but also heard from the Israeli prime minister leave the potential for talks over a phase two?

After all, we are in phase one at the moment. And let's remind our viewers, this is a temporary ceasefire. Hamas have effectively fast tracked the

release of prisoners. They will say that they have fulfilled or will have fulfilled their commitments ahead of time.

Where does this leave phase two, which would be a permanent ceasefire?

RAVID: Well, Becky, today, minister for strategic affairs, Ron Dermer, who is Netanyahu's closest confidant, is expected to meet U.S. envoy Steve

Witkoff in Miami to talk about phase two.

Witkoff is also expected to speak on the phone today with the prime minister of Qatar, who is effectively negotiating on behalf of Hamas. So

this is happening today.

But are we any closer to phase two agreement?

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The gaps between the parties are big or very big even or huge. The Israeli position right now and Netanyahu's

position, that Dermer will convey to Witkoff, is that Israel demands that Hamas dismantles its military wing, that its -- numerous of its dozens of

its leaders leave Gaza to exile.

And that the government in Gaza will not be controlled in any way by Hamas. Hamas doesn't agree to those terms, obviously. And as you see, it's a zero-

sum game. So I don't see how we can get any closer. And those are the positions right now.

ANDERSON: That's a pretty pessimistic view. It has to be said. But sadly, possibly spot on. Qatar, of course, a mediator in these talks alongside the

U.S. and Egypt. Barak, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.

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ANDERSON: To some breaking news now from Ukraine, where a joint press conference between the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy and

president Trump's Ukraine and Russia envoy will not be happening.

Relations between Washington and Kyiv certainly seem in fast decline at this point. Mr. Zelenskyy met with Keith Kellogg after what has been an

extraordinary week, where U.S.-U.K. relations publicly spiraled. This week's sharp decline in Trump's approach to Ukraine alarming Kyiv's

European allies.

Let's break this all down with Salma Abdelaziz in London and Steve Collinson in Washington, D.C.

Before we do that, I want to get you straight to Kyiv. So stand by, everybody, where Nick Paton Walsh is standing by. Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hi. Some breaking news for you, Becky.

We are hearing, gathered here with much of the media for the meeting between Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the Ukraine-Russia

envoy to the Trump administration, general Keith Kellogg.

Their meeting is underway now and there had been an expectation, I think, amongst the media, as you would normally think, that after something like

this, that there would be a press availability, questions answered, a joint appearance.

Now we're being told that, at the request of the American side, that is not going to happen. But as of now, there won't be that kind of press

availability. So that may speak potentially to some of the frostiness in the relationship between Washington and Kyiv.

We don't know how well the meeting is going between Kellogg and Zelenskyy. Obviously, you know, Kellogg has said he was here to listen to ask the

Ukrainians what kind of security guarantees and things they need for a functional peace deal.

So I think Kellogg is, you know, somebody keen to hear what Ukraine has to say. But the trip here, during which Kellogg has met the foreign minister,

Zelenskyy's chief of staff, military intelligence chiefs, has largely been overshadowed by this extraordinary war of words, tit-for-tat between Donald

Trump and Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

I should say that, when Donald Trump said Zelenskyy, Ukraine had started the war themselves and Zelenskyy had a 4 percent favorability rating in

polling, Zelenskyy responded, saying he had great respect for Trump and the American people.

But Trump, who was living in a disinformation space, trying to counter that narrative that he essentially was clinging on to power with zero popular

mandate. And, of course, a very dangerous narrative that Ukraine was behind a war, that Russia, unprovoked, started when it invaded in 2022.

But that spiraled out of control. And clearly, Trump's response, calling Zelenskyy a dictator, suggesting that so much of the money here has gone

missing, that Zelenskyy was refusing to hold elections.

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Yes, Ukraine is not having elections during wartime but that is pretty common, frankly and there are plenty of very urgent, practical reasons why

that would not be the case and why something that didn't have the full legitimacy of the voting process here could be exceptionally damaging to

Ukraine on the battlefield.

And then we had these bizarre comments overnight from Ukraine -- president Donald Trump on Air Force One, who said that the rare earth deal that had

been brought to Kyiv by U.S. Secretary of the Treasury Bessent, well, Bessent hadn't even met Zelenskyy and that Zelenskyy had been asleep when

Bessent came here.

Now we all saw a press conference between the two men. So that statement completely false. I'm sure at some point during visit Zelenskyy did go to

sleep. I'm sure Bessent did as well.

But there are a number of falsehoods here, which I think it's fair to say those close to Zelenskyy are just continually baffled by quite where this

is going. It does, I think, to some, feel like a bid to persistently undermine Zelenskyy in the eyes of the American public and those who listen

to Donald Trump.

And we're into an exceptionally dangerous moment here because this meeting was urgently about trying to get Ukraine to a peace process that's been

U.S.-Russia so far. It's been overshadowed by the comments between Trump and Zelenskyy.

It may not be fruitful. We don't know what's happening behind those closed doors but they seem to be reticent to go public with whatever they come up

with immediately afterwards. And so that is an exceptionally dangerous sign here for Ukrainians dying, frankly, daily on the battlefield. Becky.

ANDERSON: As you speak, we're just showing some pictures, that have just come in to CNN, of Keith Kellogg with Zelenskyy just moments ago in Kyiv,

in the room where, one assumes, they've been holding talks.

And you report that Keith Kellogg, says that he has come to Kyiv to listen and to talk about security guarantees and the like. We have to wonder

whether that was really the case.

I ask this because CNN earlier talked to Donald Trump's national security advisor in Washington. What Kellogg -- and CNN asked Waltz, what message

Kellogg was sent to deliver on Donald Trump's behalf. I just want our viewers to have a listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: What do you think --

MICHAEL WALTZ, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: What?

QUESTION: Yes. But just, you know, were here. We're out early.

I mean, what do you think is the main message Kellogg needs to deliver to Zelenskyy today after all of the back and forth yesterday?

WALTZ: Let's tone down the rhetoric and sign the economic opportunity, sign the deal.

QUESTION: Is that Kellogg's directive today, is to get him to sign the deal?

WALTZ: Well, he's out there talking to him about a number of things but that would be, I think that would be a tremendous step forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See you guys later.

QUESTION: Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: "Let's tone down the rhetoric," he said, Nick, and let's get him to sign the deal.

Your thoughts?

WALSH: Yes. Look, I mean, I should say Kellogg's comments about being here to listen and talk about security guarantees, they were made at the

beginning of yesterday. And in the developments we're seeing, that's an age ago.

So much has happened since Kellogg stepped off that train on the railway platform yesterday morning, making those remarks a long awaited visit. We

hadn't seen the extraordinary spiral that we've seen over the past 48 hours or so.

And look, the deal in question is key to Ukraine. And we've been learning more about its contents. This is not the deal. Potentially about 50 percent

of Ukraine's rare earth mineral and other energy resources being essentially given to the United States.

It's not about future aid. It's not about establishing a relationship between the Trump administration and Zelenskyy going forward. It's about

the Trump administration trying to get money back for aid given by the Biden administration, the tens of billions that we've been talking about.

And so that is a stark issue for Zelenskyy to have to deal with, because with it, he doesn't get future guarantees or talk of how this goes forward

and the guarantee even the Trump administration is necessarily going to continue the military aid that Ukraine needs.

And we learned also, too, that the deal itself, two or three pages of legalese and then a specific list of resources, places, assets that the

U.S. particularly wanted some kind of control or stake in. So transactional if you're being generous.

And I think a reminder, a stark reminder how things have changed in simply a month to Zelenskyy here and the feeling, I think increasingly in Ukraine

now, is that Zelenskyy is going to have to potentially dig in to some degree.

But his position now is something which is a continued point of contention to a U.S. president, who just constantly seems to want to remind anyone who

will listen, that Zelenskyy is unpopular and is refusing to face elections. That's deeply damaging to Ukraine's war effort.

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ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv. Nick, very much appreciate you there and providing this reporting and analysis at what is such an

important time. Let's bring in Stephen Collinson. Thank you, Nick.

And let's remind our viewers, in part, what Trump had to say about Zelenskyy in the past 24 hours. Stephen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He refuses to have elections. He's low in the real Ukrainian polls. Somebody said, oh, no, his polls are good. Give me a break. The only thing

he was really good at was playing Joe Biden like a fiddle, a dictator without elections.

Zelenskyy better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. Got to move. Got to move fast. I love Ukraine but Zelenskyy has done a terrible

job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: He's calling Zelenskyy a dictator, Stephen. Picking up on where Nick left off here, what does Zelenskyy do next at this point?

And should we expect any sort of pushback or, you know, U-turn in any way from the Trump administration on this rhetoric?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I've been trying to think about what Trump could be trying to do if there is some method

behind his statements.

You could, I guess, generously argue that he is putting pressure on Zelenskyy because he wants to get Trump -- he wants to get Putin to the

negotiating table and then he wants to lay down his terms in person with Putin. But this is a very strange way to do something like that.

The other possibility, I think, is that the president is perhaps understanding how impossible it is going to be to do a deal, at least a

fair deal, given the terms that Russia laid down in the talks in Saudi Arabia.

Is he perhaps laying the groundwork just to walk away from Ukraine and therefore provide the justification?

Because he's clearly trying to undermine Zelenskyy politically and in the eyes of the U.S. electorate domestically and perhaps even to try and weaken

his support among European leaders, two of whom will be here next week; Keir Starmer of the U.K. and Emmanuel Macron of France. So it is very

puzzling.

I don't know that it's necessarily a strategy. A lot of times Trump has a personal resentment and that becomes the basis of U.S. policy. So that

could also be what's going on here.

ANDERSON: Yes, I mean, JD Vance, vice president, who is due to speak at an annual conservative conference shortly, has said that for three years it

has been clear. And he agrees with Donald Trump, that there has been no pathway to victory for Ukraine and that Ukraine has known that. And the

Europeans have known that.

And this is, you know, the provision, I guess the argument goes, of a new pathway. Where it goes at this point, though, is unclear. And I agree with

you. I mean, it's very difficult to sort of work out exactly where Donald Trump's head is in all of this.

You know, perhaps, you know, we know that 24 hours is a long time in a Trump world. Perhaps it will become clearer in the days to come or hours to

come even. It's good to have you, Stephen. Thank you very much indeed.

Still to come, the verdicts are in for former Spanish soccer boss Luis Rubiales over that kiss at the Women's World Cup. That is coming up after

this.

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ANDERSON: The former boss of Spain's soccer federation has been found guilty of sexual assault. Luis Rubiales sparked an international outcry

when he kissed player Jenni Hermoso without her consent following the country's Women's World Cup triumph in 2023.

Rubiales has been fined, despite prosecutors pushing for a prison sentence. CNN's Pau Mosquera has more from Madrid for you.

PAU MOSQUERA, CNN SPAIN CORRESPONDENT: Rubiales consummated (ph) that sexual assault by surprisingly carrying out an act that violated the sexual

freedom of Jennifer Hermoso.

And that's why Spain's national court has found him guilty of sexually assaulting Hermoso by giving that kiss to her lips during the celebrations

that took place once Spain's women's national team won the World Cup in August 2023.

The court has actually ordered him to pay a fine of more of $11,000 and also to not to go within 200 meters of Hermoso during a year and to refrain

from contacting her during a year.

It is important to remember, Becky, that, during the trial, both prosecutor and complainants' lawyers asked one year in prison for Rubiales for this

count of sexual assault.

But the judge believed that, as it's of a lesser intensity, that what is stated in the Spanish criminal code, because there was no violence or not

intimidation, then it's just enough with paying that fine.

Also, Rubiales and the other three former members of the Spain's soccer federation have been acquitted of the count of coercion, a count that the

prosecutor and the complainants' lawyers defended, as they stated that all of them pressed Rubiales to Hermoso in that case to downplay the kiss.

Now CNN is trying to gather the visions of the different lawyers as to know, how do they react to this sentence and also to know if they appeal

it, because they now have the right to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: That's your reporting out of Spain today.

And we are following some encouraging news about Pope Francis. The Vatican says he is showing slight improvement after being diagnosed with pneumonia

in both lungs. The 88 year old pontiff has been hospitalized since last week, following what has been a string of lung related medical struggles.

CNN's Christopher Lamb joining us now from Rome.

And you and I have spoken at this time, you know, all week. And you've been keeping us up to date on the pope's health status.

What do we know this hour?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, we heard from the Vatican that the pope had a peaceful night, that he got up and had

breakfast sitting in a chair.

And that's the first time we've been told that he's had breakfast in the chair, which is a positive sign, we're told, because it shows the pope's

out of bed and sitting up. We also know that he saw Italian prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, yesterday at the Gemelli Hospital behind me, for a 20

minute meeting.

And prime minister Meloni said the pope was in good humor, that he was alert and reactive. But obviously it's a complicated medical picture for

the pope. He's 88 years old. He has a history of respiratory infections. We don't know how long he's going to be in hospital.

We're in the seventh day of his hospitalization. We don't know how long the recovery period is afterwards. Inevitably, there are people in the Vatican,

in the church, asking questions about the future.

Now the pope is a very determined individual. He's always said that resignation is not on his agenda. However, he's never ruled it out. And, of

course, Benedict XVI in 2013 was the first pope in 600 years to resign.

[10:30:00]

That opened the door to that possibility for the future. So much depends, of course, on the medical prognosis and what that says. We are expecting a

further update from the Vatican this evening. And that will hopefully shed some more light on the situation facing the pope. Becky.

ANDERSON: Good to have you, Christopher, thank you so much.

Coming up, Trump's envoy for Russia and Ukraine in Ukraine, meeting with the president there. We are learning that -- there will be not there will

not be a joint press conference after that meeting. More on that is after this.

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ANDERSON (voice-over): Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Here are your headlines.

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is vowing revenge against Hamas after four deceased hostages were returned to Israel earlier. All of the

remains are now at a forensic institute in Tel Aviv. One of them has been formally identified, says the family of 84 year old Oded Lifshitz.

The Vatican says Pope Francis is showing slight improvement just days after he was diagnosed with pneumonia in both lungs. He's been hospitalized since

last week following a string of lung related medical struggles.

The U.S. envoy for Ukraine and Russia met with Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Kyiv today. The pair were meant to hold a joint press conference but CNN is

learning that is not going to happen. We are told that is per a request from the Americans.

Those talks are on the heels of Donald Trump doubling down on false claims that Ukraine started the war and calling Mr. Zelenskyy a dictator.

Well, Mr. Trump's rhetoric signifying an inflection point both for the war in Ukraine and U.S. relations with Europe. CNN's former Moscow bureau chief

Jill Dougherty joining us now from Washington, D.C.

And Jill, no press availability then, at the request of the U.S. side. Now we don't know why. But earlier in Washington, Mr. Trump's national security

adviser told CNN the message from Kellogg today for Zelenskyy was to be to, quote, "sign the deal."

He said an agreement on rare earths, earth metals would be a tremendous step forward. We know that Zelenskyy has said no to that White House

proposal.

[10:35:00]

Jill, where is this all headed?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, well, that's the question. We don't know why they decided to cancel this press availability. But to me, it

looks as if they wanted to calm the waters.

I mean, things are blowing up. You have an actual fight between the president of the United States and the president of Ukraine, with a lot of

threats coming from Donald Trump. And this, you know, softens it. There won't be any comments to chew on. You know, the media won't be able to ask

questions, et cetera.

And we don't know behind the scenes exactly what general Kellogg is saying to Mr. -- to President Zelenskyy. That deal, Zelenskyy decided he would not

accept because it appeared to be paying back, let's say, Ukraine paying back the United States for aid already given, which was supposed to be

given freely and no guarantees for the future.

So this is, I think, a very serious situation, in which you have these two men feuding. And where it goes, I don't think is clear at this point.

ANDERSON: So let me try this one on you. And I understand why you say that. It isn't clear this at this point because, frankly, you're absolutely

right. I mean, what a week this has been.

We've got new reporting in to CNN, a source with knowledge of U.S. intelligence tells one of our colleagues in D.C., quote, "If you were to

get a ceasefire, then a ceasefire is just time for Putin to take a rest and rearm and come back and get the rest of what he wants.

"We have seen no indications whatsoever that his ambitions have changed."

And to your mind, does that intel sound reasonable, given your experience in Moscow for as long as you were there, given your experience of Vladimir

Putin and the people around him?

Is that reasonable, do you think, to suggest that that's likely to be correct?

DOUGHERTY: I do. I think at this point, if it's just a ceasefire, there's no question in my mind that Vladimir Putin would like to finish the job

that he set out to do, which he has not been able to do so far.

And one of those, I mean, there are things that he is insisting on. And he insisted at the beginning of all of this, back in 2022, actually the summer

before 2022, which is, you know, no NATO for Ukraine; territorial concessions by Ukraine, that Russia gets to take what it has already

gotten, the territory in Ukraine.

And even more that, the de-Nazification, which is the word that he uses for getting rid of Zelenskyy, overthrowing or, you know, getting him out of

office and taking over. He has not accomplished any of that.

And if there is a period where they can wait and simply have a ceasefire, he can rearm. But you know, Becky, to answer your first question, I feel

bad about not answering it. I do think there are a couple of things going on here.

Either the comments by president Trump are part of negotiating. You know, he's just being -- excuse me -- tough to Zelenskyy, putting a lot of

pressure. But ultimately everything will come out or he has changed his viewpoint on this.

And I tend to think the second. I think that Trump is actually changing his approach to this. I think he, the, you know, the comments that were

extremely strong and cutting against Zelenskyy, you don't need to do that necessarily. If you're negotiating, you can be tough.

But I think that he is taking what Vladimir Putin told him in that telephone conversation a few days ago and he is parroting it. And that is

the way he looks at the world, which is exactly the way Vladimir Putin would describe this war, this Russian war against Ukraine.

ANDERSON: Now you're making you're making a very, very good point.

Can I just get, before I let you go, your perspective on the significance and consequence for Europe of what has materialized over the past, what,

week or so?

DOUGHERTY: Oh, well, it's very serious for Europe because I think the writing is on the wall. If president Trump continues to do what he is

indicating right now, he's essentially pushing the entire solution into the hands of the Europeans, that the United States will essentially kind of

wipe its hands of this.

[10:40:00]

And the Europeans will have to provide security and protect Ukraine as they can. And that is something that I think you -- that Europe has done to a

great degree over the past three years.

But to very quickly, almost unilaterally, toss it to the Europeans is very, very difficult. It will be difficult for the people of Europe who will have

to pay more money. It's destabilizing in terms of where NATO goes, what happens to NATO, what happens to long term security in Europe.

So I think the -- obviously Europeans are very worried. Not all of them agree on every point. And getting back to Vladimir Putin, he is very happy

to see that, that any type of any signal, any indication of disunity among the European allies, let alone between Europe and the United States, is

something that Vladimir Putin absolutely wants.

ANDERSON: There is some reporting doing the rounds, coming out of the "FT" at present, of course, we'll try and stand this up. But I think it's really

interesting just to close this conversation out.

The U.S. is opposing calling Russia the aggressor in a G7 statement on the third anniversary of Moscow's full scale invasion of Ukraine, threatening

to derail a traditional show of unity. according to five Western officials.

Obviously, I am quoting other media reporting there and we will, of course, be doing our best to stand that up.

But if that were to be the case, that would add just another layer to where we are at and perhaps very much support your contention that this is not

just a negotiating position from Donald Trump but is, in fact, more on the back of the conversation that he had with Vladimir Putin just recently.

It's always good to have you, Jill. Thank you so much for joining us.

More coming up after this.

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J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A very good --

ANDERSON: Right. I want to get you to a conservative conference where the vice president, JD Vance, is talking and he is specifically talking about

Ukraine. Let's listen in.

VANCE: -- White House and I really believe that we're on the cusp of peace in Europe for the first time in three years, because we have leadership

from the Oval Office and we haven't had it in four years in this country.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Matt and I mentioned this right when we started the conference. We're honored by the presence of two hostages that were freed

after the Hamas atrocity, the tragedy that we've seen happen.

And we have several of the family members as well, who are still there --

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- where they, their loved ones are still being detained by Hamas.

What is your message?

[10:45:00]

ANDERSON: That is the U.S. vice president JD Vance, speaking to fellow conservatives at an annual gathering there in Maryland. And we'll get back

to that as and when.

The world's richest man is on the verge of pulling off a minor social media miracle. Elon Musk paid $44 billion for Twitter back in 2022. Many viewed

it as an overpayment and the changes he made plunged the company into chaos. Well, 2.5 years later, the social media platform is on a rebound and

Musk might be close to breaking even.

CNN's Anna Stewart joins us with more. Anna.

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What a turnaround, right?

We saw the mass exodus of advertisers shortly after Musk bought then Twitter, now, of course, rebranded as X, because advertisers just didn't

want to advertise on a platform that showed increasing levels of hate speech and controversial posts.

We saw this huge pullback. Musk wasn't very happy. At one stage, he told advertisers to go eff themselves. And let me show you a timeline of the

valuation that we've seen from X since then.

So you can see that Musk paid $44 billion for Twitter back in 2022. And that actually plunged to a fifth of its value in October of last year. It

was worth $9.4 billion, according to Fidelity. It crept up a little bit in December.

And now, extraordinarily, it is being valued potentially at $44 billion, which is exactly what Elon Musk paid for it. So you've got a question.

What has changed since then?

Well, first of all, the president has changed. Second of all, Elon Musk's role in the executive branch, of course, this could be and some advertisers

are very happy to get back on a platform. You could see this as wanting to curry favor with the new administration.

But also, Becky, this platform is now being used for us to get direct news from the president of the United States, from Elon Musk, from DOGE. And so

in many ways, it's almost been legitimized through this transition.

And thirdly, I would say there's also an element of X may have, it's believed to have a big stake in X AI, which, of course, you know, from this

week has launched Grok three to huge fanfare. That one is also trying to raise funds and is currently valued, I believe, at $75 billion. So Musk

kind of has the Midas touch at the moment.

ANDERSON: Well, and the banks will be pleased, because in 2022, he bought Twitter. And at the time, I'm sure something like, what was it, more than a

quarter if not a third of the financing was from banks. Those banks generally sell that off relatively quickly to others.

They couldn't offload that debt for some time for the last two years because of the state of the business. So it's not just going to be Musk

who's happy about this. Clearly, the banks are going to be able to get more for that debt going forward as well.

Good to have you, Anna. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed.

Still to come, as Germany prepares for snap elections this weekend, why so many young voters say they are supporting the far right AfD. That is just

ahead.

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ANDERSON: The German far right party, Alternative for Germany or AfD, is expected to be the country's largest opposition after this weekend's

election. AfD is sitting second in the polls.

[10:50:00]

Thanks to a rapid rise in support, including an endorsement from none less than Elon Musk. CNN's Sebastian Shukla visited the party's heartland to see

why it is becoming increasingly popular with voters.

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SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Suhl is a sleepy town in former East Germany but over the last few years it has seen a major

political awakening with the far-right, the Alternative for Germany, the AfD.

This region Thuringia is AfD heartland. In fact, it became the first regional state to elect a far-right party since the Nazi era. So we've come

to hear from the most controversial figure in the region, Bjorn Hocke and who might be listening to him.

The AfD in Thuringia designated an extremist organization by German intelligence authorities. Hocke, as its head, has previously been convicted

for the use of banned Nazi slogans.

Nevertheless, he's feted in these parts, in particular among young people. A question I put to him.

SHUKLA: There is rising popularity among young voters for the AFD. Are you a good role model?

BJORN HOCKE, AFD FACTION LEADER, THURINGIA, GERMANY (through translator): I hope that my performance is lively and that the youth can also identify

with me. And if they can do that and see a bit of a pop star in me, then that's fine. Because the youth also need idols like that.

SHUKLA (voice-over): Support from the youth for the AFD is growing quickly. In European elections last summer, votes from 16- to 34-year- olds

increased 18 percent from 2019.

Young people we spoke to at the rally didn't hide their backgrounds either. Dante Riedel, a 26-year-old student, told me he's also designated an

extremist and had clear ideological views.

DANTE RIEDEL, STUDENT, AFD SUPPORTER (through translator): Prussian virtues, things like diligence, discipline, etc. These are the things that

are important, including the cardinal virtues from antiquity.

SHUKLA (voice-over): Eric Engelhardt spent his evening photographing Hocke and as the regional head of the Young Alternatives, the AFD's youth wing,

he's another party and Hocke disciple.

We met up with Eric and his friend Max the next day in picturesque Sonneberg. I asked Eric about Hocke's pop star comments.

ERIC ENGELHARDT, REGIONAL HEAD OF THE YOUNG ALTERNATIVES (through translator): I see him as a politician who can achieve a lot for this

country. He stands for something. He stands for his cause.

SHUKLA (voice-over): The Young Alternatives are also designated extremists by the domestic intelligence services, something that Eric says is a

political conspiracy.

ENGELHARDT (through translator): Our secret service is controlled by politicians. It is an authority that is bound by instructions and

ultimately, it does what is said from above.

We ourselves are not extremists. There are no extremists in the Young Alternatives.

SHUKLA (voice-over): The association was recently forced to disband, effective 31st of March. But the mission isn't changing.

ENGELHARDT (through translator): Migration is the mother of all crisis. We have a lot of illegal immigrants in this country who are also on welfare,

who are not behaving in this country.

Many young people are on the side of the AFD and naturally want change.

SHUKLA (voice-over): Eric says the youth won't be deterred. They will be back, more formally aligned with the AFD and under a different name but

with the same vision for Germany's future -- Sebastian Shukla, CNN, Thuringia, Germany.

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ANDERSON: And we'll have a two hour special on the German election on Sunday at 12 pm Eastern time. That is 5 pm in London, 6 pm in Germany, 9 pm

here in Abu Dhabi.

Well, Donald Trump's plan to shrink the U.S. government could be about to impact the largest federal agency of all, the Department of Defense. CNN

has obtained a memo sent by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, ordering his deputies to plan to cut the military budget by 8 percent each year for the

next five years.

But this appears to contradict the House Republicans' budget plan that calls for a $100 billion increase in defense spending. CNN's Natasha

Bertrand explains.

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NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This memo really is coming as quite a surprise, particularly given the steep cuts that it is

proposing here, 8 percent every year over the next five years. That would amount to tens and tens of billions of dollars cut from the Defense

Department budget.

And importantly, you know, it is making exceptions for some of the Trump administration's biggest priorities, including border security.

But in the memo that we obtained, that Hegseth sent to the workforce, he said that he is asking the military departments and DOD components to

reinforce the capabilities and readiness necessary for a wartime tempo and cut things that he described as low impact and wasteful, including DEI and

climate change programs.

But he's only given the entire U.S. military about a week here to submit proposals for what actually can be cut from the U.S. military.

[10:55:00]

Something that is going to be quite a burden for the U.S. military to figure out, because the budget right now is about $850 billion for the

Pentagon.

And while I think a lot of Americans would agree that there is quite a lot of spending at the Pentagon that is wasteful and that is often difficult to

account for, these steep, steep cuts are going to be difficult to achieve, not only logistically but also politically.

Because congressional Republicans in particular have been pushing pretty much year after year to increase the defense spending as much as, you know,

a couple billion dollars per year, getting it to about over $1 trillion per year.

So this is bound to create some consternation here and, as you said, pretty much conflicts directly with something that president Trump had endorsed

just recently, which is that House budget plan that increases the defense spending by about $100 billion.

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ANDERSON: And CNN has just learned from sources that Secretary of Defense Hegseth could soon move to fire more than half a dozen generals and flag

officers in an effort to purge the department of its senior leaders, considered too political or, frankly, too close to Hegseth's predecessor,

Lloyd Austin.

The list is said to include the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. So when we say senior figures, we mean very senior figures.

That is it for CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson. From the team working with me here in Abu Dhabi and those working with us around the world, it is

a very good evening. "NEWSROOM" is up next.

END