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Heathrow Airport Shutdown Triggers Global Travel Chaos; Turkish Protesters Defy Ban Over Istanbul Mayor's Detention; Egypt Presses on with Post-War Plan for Gaza; London Airport Closure Affecting Hundreds of Flights; Ukraine Ceasefire Talks to Resume in Saudi Arabia Monday; More Mass Protesters in Turkey Over Istanbul Mayor's Detention; Elon Musk Wraps Meeting at the Pentagon. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired March 21, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:27]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, welcome to the second hour of the hour from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky
Anderson. It is just after 6:00 p.m. here.
And we start with the day of international travel chaos. These are live pictures of Heathrow Airport in London at a standstill. Those are on the
left. The pictures on the right showing the fire that brought Europe's busiest airport grinding to a halt. The ramifications being felt in every
corner of the aviation world.
Well, a political and legal crisis for the Israeli prime minister as the Supreme Court freezes the firing of the head of Shin Bet. And in Turkey,
clashes between police and demonstrators as thousands defy an official ban on protests after the Erdogan government throws the president's main rival
in jail.
We begin with breaking news. London counterterrorism police say they are taking over the investigation into a fire that has shut down Heathrow
Airport and sparked global travel chaos. They say so far they have seen no evidence of foul play, but they are keeping an open mind. Britain's energy
utility has been working to restore power since a huge transformer fire near the airport caused a major outage. That fire under control at this
point, but still not out.
Well, thousands of airline passengers around the world have been stranded after many flights were diverted and others were turned around mid-air. CNN
is told disruption could continue for days and there's no timeline yet on when power will be restored.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN SMITH, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, LONDON FIRE BRIGADE: There remains no power at Heathrow Airport Terminal Two or Terminal Four. The incident
caused London Heathrow to close the airport and planes to be rerouted. We continue to work very closely with our partners to minimize disruption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, a short time ago, CNN's Larry Madowo was at Heathrow for a closer look at the logistical nightmare airport officials are now dealing
with.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anybody trying to get to Heathrow Airport can only get this far. There are barriers here blocking access to all the
terminals at the airport. Passengers have been told not to attempt to come to the terminals for the whole day because the airport will be closed at
least until midnight.
More than 1300 flights are affected. Some are getting redirected to other London airports. Those that were coming into London, such as Gatwick and
Stansted. But for a lot of people who are hoping to travel today, there is no way into the terminal and there are a few passengers who kind of made
this journey as well, parked across the road on the other side. Many have come here, discovered that they can't come in and have gone back home.
This is Europe's busiest airport, the fourth busiest airport in the world. So a cancellation, a closure of the whole day affects hundreds of thousands
of people who will be probably here tomorrow if it reopens, trying to get their airlines to rebook them, and airlines scrambling to accommodate all
these extra thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who have to get to their destinations or to land here in replacement floors.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Heathrow Airport.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, that was Larry Madowo.
We're joined now by Stephen Wright. He's a professor and head of the Department for Aviation and Transport at the Technological University
Dublin. He's also a commercial aviation expert.
Couldn't be better served than by having you on, sir, today. Can you just lay out how disruptive this is?
STEPHEN WRIGHT, DEPARTMENT HEAD, AVIATION AND TRANSPORT, TECHNOLOGICAL UNIVERSITY DUBLIN: Hello there, Becky. Yes, this is pretty awful in no
uncertain terms. I haven't ever heard of an event where the airlines lose power to an airport. I just haven't heard of this happening before. You
would naturally expect that there would be back-up generators that they would then kick in.
What happens to the airlines? It's dreadful. All the planes are going to be in the wrong place. So they've landed somewhere else. The passengers have
landed somewhere else. The contract, the ticket says you go from your destination to Heathrow. So they're still going to have to travel. They're
still going to have to deliver all these people and their bags to London Heathrow somehow.
[10:05:04]
And then they're going to have to try and pick up the new passengers. And there's a fantastic backlog of people, as you can imagine already. It's
going to take days to sort out.
ANDERSON: We are told that the airport is closed until at least midnight tonight. That is for the rest of Friday.
From a technical standpoint, what will it take to get operations up and running again? And who's involved in doing that?
WRIGHT: So this is down to the airport authority. And then working with the airlines, all of the contract, the service providers in order to get people
through. Now the other factor that has to be considered carefully here is a city airport like London Heathrow has got strict curfew rules, so it could
be the case that the curfew could be adjusted as an emergency interim type measure. It wouldn't be ideal, especially if you live near the airport,
that planes are coming and taking off and landing.
Yes, but it's down to the airport authority. And then once the airport authority makes a decision, they then have to communicate that with both
air traffic control and also the airlines.
ANDERSON: This is the world's fourth busiest airport, certainly was in 2023. Last figures that we have. And it is Europe's busiest. So what are
those knock-on effects? What are the consequences for passengers around the world at this point?
WRIGHT: Well, yes. The challenge here is that there will be a lot of people that obviously some people complete their destination in Heathrow. Other
people are passing through Heathrow as a hub airport, obviously traveling, perhaps with a different airline and going much further afield. So those
people are immediately affected and the connections are just going to be a mess.
It's not just the people. Heathrow is the U.K.'s principal airport for cargo. So all the high value stuff, your mobile phones, your computers, the
gold, the diamonds, all of that extremely valuable cargo comes to Heathrow. That's where all the cargo sheds are located or the main high value stuff.
So that's now stopped. So you can imagine all of this effect is going to be quite dramatic. And getting back to a normal service, we've seen it takes
days when there's been other, when one airline has had a problem, for instance, like British Airways.
ANDERSON: We know that some flights have been diverted to other U.K. airports, for example to London's Gatwick, which is to the south of London.
Can these other airports handle this extra traffic?
WRIGHT: The simple answer is no. I used to work at London Gatwick. Theyve needed a second runway at Gatwick. I used to work there in -- can't
remember when, was it 1999? It was close to capacity then for takeoffs and landings. Obviously, with so many years further forward, no. You can push a
few planes to somewhere like Gatwick and a few to Stansted and a few to Luton and a few to Manchester.
But they're now also having to fly these aircraft onto other European airports in order to just to deal with them, because you can't have planes
going round and round and round in the air until the fuel stops, that's not viable. It's very, very problematic for everybody involved.
ANDERSON: Including air traffic control, one assumes. And we're just looking at a map over the U.K. at present, you know, and the enormity, the
volume of traffic in the air must be significant. How will they cope?
WRIGHT: They do practice. So, for instance, during COVID, even though there was a tiny number of flights going on, for instance, London Gatwick, they
actually paid their air traffic controllers to come to work and practice even if it meant being on a computer simulator.
They do maintain high levels of training, high levels of operation, high levels of what if capability. So a lot of that stuff that you're talking
about, the air management, that's going to be done at National Air Traffic Services. They've got a headquarters on the south coast near Southampton.
[10:10:00]
So that will be looking after all of this additional traffic. The stuff coming in over from America that's then dealt with up at Prestwick, again,
another national air traffic service hub. And between those two centers there will then be trying to work out the best way to move these aircraft
into position for some sort of recovery. But that's going to be with the airlines specifically, because they're the ones that have to fly the
planes.
ANDERSON: Yes. That's fascinating. What a mess. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Let's get you the very latest now on what is going on at Heathrow. Anna Stewart is live there and what is the latest? What are you being told by
authorities about what happened and when things could be back up and running -- Anna.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, I mean, this is disruption that we've not seen since I think 2010 with the Icelandic ash cloud. You know,
snowmageddons have come and gone. We've had the pandemic, but we've never seen Heathrow Airport completely shut down since 2010. And how it all
unfolded and what the cause was of this fire and whether this can ever be sort of whether it would ever be repeated again, of course, will be subject
to an investigation. But here's how it all unfolded overnight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (voice-over): Flames leaping into the air over this West London electrical substation overnight. The fire taking out all the power for the
local area and for the U.K.'s busiest airport. By mid-morning, the blaze was under control but London Heathrow announced a complete shutdown.
Airplanes grounded on the tarmac and many passengers in the U.K. and around the world left stranded, waiting for answers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of unbelievable, just kind of like, what the hell? Because this whole trip has been a little bit of a -- let's just say
bad luck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've called Delta and all the lines were busy, so they're not answering. I just called American Express Travel to see if they
can help. I'm waiting.
STEWART: Heathrow announced the airport would remain closed until at least midnight local time on Friday, as the fire had also impacted its backup
power supply.
With an average of 1300 flights a day and serving as a major hub for Trans- Atlantic travel, there has already been global disruption. Many flights, which were already en route to Heathrow, were turned around mid-air. Others
kept waiting for hours, only to be told they couldn't fly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple hours ago right as we were about to leave Newfoundland, we were rerouted back to Minneapolis.
STEWART: As the U.K. national grid works to reestablish power to Heathrow so flights can resume, counterterrorism police have been called in to lead
the investigation into the fire.
ED MILIBAND, BRITISH ENERGY SECRETARY: There's no suggestion that there is foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a catastrophic accident is what we're looking at.
MILIBAND: That is the -- I mean, the conversation I've had is with the National Grid, the chief executive of the National Grid, and certainly
that's what he said to me.
STEWART: The knock-on effects of this incident could take days to resolve.
IAN PETCHENIK, FLIGHTRADAR24 DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: Airlines like BA are going to take probably a few days, maybe even a week to recover,
depending on how long the problems at Heathrow last and how quickly they can get aircraft and crews and passengers back into position.
STEWART: Meaning thousands more passengers are headed for delays.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (on-camera): Now, right now, the reopening of Heathrow Airport very much depends on when power can, you know, return to all of its terminals.
And the latest we had from the London Fire Brigade was Terminal Two and Terminal Four are still without power. So I think that midnight reopening
is still a bit of a question mark at this stage -- Becky.
ANDERSON: And the impact on business for London Heathrow as an organization and for airlines at this point, of course, will be swinging.
I just want to bring up the U.S. airline stocks. That market, of course, has been trading now for a couple of hours. Delta, United and American all
off, echoing or certainly reflecting what happened for European carriers in early European trade. I mean, what's the likely business impact here?
STEWART: Yes, not a surprise at all to see airline stocks are down. I think IAG, sorry, was down around 5 percent when it opened this morning and is
still trading down. The cost here will be huge and the cost will very much depend on how many days Heathrow is closed for and how big this disruption
is. I mean, one expert I think said it would cost at this stage hundreds of millions of pounds. Lots of passengers will have plenty of questions about
compensation.
There'll be questions about insurance and of course huge questions, Becky, at the end of the day, as to how a fire at an electrical substation could
take out one of the world's busiest airports, how backup generators weren't able to fix the problem.
[10:15:06]
They were also impacted, we're told. So there are plenty of questions here, but at the end of the day, it is going to be a very big bill, I think.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. Anna, good to have you there. Thank you very much indeed. A long day there for passengers and reporters at Heathrow
Airport.
Just ahead, even as Israel renews its attacks in Gaza, Egypt moving ahead with its postwar plan for the enclave. My interview with the Egyptian
Foreign Ministry spokesperson is next. We talk about Cairo's proposal and whether it stands a chance with the Trump White House. That is after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Israel's Supreme Court has suspended the dismissal of the head of Shin Bet. That is the country's internal security service. Now the court
says it will hold a hearing on Ronen Bar's dismissal by April 8th. Senior ministers are condemning the court's decision. Critics of the dismissal
call the action politically motivated.
Well, this is all happening in stark new comments by Israel's defense minister directed at both Hamas and Gaza's residents. Israel Katz says the
military will expand ground operations and intensify airstrikes in Gaza until all the hostages held there are released. He also says the IDF would
have a permanent presence in any Gaza territory it seizes. Katz's outlook what he calls a civilian pressure campaign, saying that Israel plans to
evacuate Gaza's population to the south and to implement U.S. President Donald Trump's voluntary transfer plan for Gaza residents.
Well, that threat from the Israeli defense minister demonstrating that an end to this conflict does not seem close. Yet, despite the renewed
fighting, Egypt is moving ahead on its postwar plan for Gaza, meant to be the alternative, the alternative Arab plan to the U.S. president's Riviera
plan.
Well, Tamim Khallaf, the Egyptian Foreign Ministry spokesperson, telling me Egypt's proposal would rebuild Gaza in three phases clearing first --
clearing the rubble and building temporary housing for Palestinians in Gaza. Second, building permanent housing and services. And third,
establishing a new government under the umbrella of the Palestinian Authority. But is everyone on board? Well, the White House, for starters,
initially dismissed the plan. But then the Trump Mideast envoy, Steve Witkoff, called it a good first step.
Well, I asked Khallaf to clarify what he was hearing from Washington about how it views Egypt's plan. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMIM KHALLAF, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: Well, the recent discussions that were held between our foreign minister and Mr. Steve
Witkoff that took place in Qatar left us with a positive feeling.
[10:20:07]
There was an agreement among the Arab foreign ministers that had met Mr. Witkoff, that the comprehensive reconstruction and rehabilitation plan,
which Egypt had put forward and which has now become an Arab plan, would be the foundation or the basis on which reconstruction would take place.
Now, obviously, this is a plan which we have put forward. It is not a sacred text. If there are any suggestions or comments which our American
partners would like to present, obviously we will consider them and there, and we will look at them with an open mind. This is a significant plan
which we have put forward. It is a meticulous, thorough, time bound, multi- phase plan at which we have put forward and has been endorsed by all 22 Arab countries in the Arab summit on the 4th of March.
ANDERSON: What is it that you understand is preventing the Trump administration from signing up and supporting at this point?
KHALLAF: All I can say at this stage is that we've had constructive and positive engagement with the U.S. administration on the plan. We believe it
is a feasible one. It is a workable one and one that is operationally plausible. And I think the outpour of international support that we have
received over the course of the past few days, in fact weeks, is reflective and indicative of the value and merit that the international community sees
in this plan.
It started out as an Egyptian plan transformed into an Arab plan during the Arab summit, and now is gradually and incrementally morphing into an
internationally endorsed plan.
ANDERSON: Israel rejects it, and without Israel's support frankly, is it feasible or realistic to continue?
KHALLAF: Israel's rejection of it I think is not surprising. But at the end of the day, it's an isolationist policy. It's an obstructionist one. And
again, it is diametrically opposed to the collective will of the international community who wants to see an end to this war and wants to
see people in Gaza return to some kind of normalcy after the end of this war.
ANDERSON: This plan excludes Hamas from governing in Gaza in the future, favoring, and I quote here, "an independent Palestinian group of
technocrats" and eventually the PA. How do you get Hamas to agree to step back and, crucially, to disarm?
KHALLAF: Well, youre absolutely right. The plan here addresses the issue of a transitional governance in Gaza. And youre correct. The plan clearly and
actually the Arab summit endorsed this Palestinian committee, which will be comprised of 15 Palestinian technocrats that are not affiliated in any way
or form with any factions in Palestine. It is a reflection of the integrity and the impartiality of this committee. So we believe it's a good way
forward and it's a good way or a transitional way to bring back the Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza.
ANDERSON: Should you not get the support that you want from this Trump administration? And given that Israel has rejected this plan, calling it
outdated, what risk of Egypt's peace treaty with Israel at this point?
KHALLAF: Now, the peace treaty of Egypt and Israel is the foundation of peace in the Middle East. And again, this is the foundation through which
all of the former or after the treaties that later ensued came to fruition. The Egypt was the pioneering country. We were the trailblazers of
providing, of offering a peace treaty to Israel. And therefore we believe that this treaty is stable and it is a foundational treaty between both our
countries.
ANDERSON: And do you encourage others to consider normalizing relations with Israel at this point? We hear a lot of talk, of course, of the
potential for normalization between Israel and the Saudis. The kingdom has made it absolutely explicit. It needs to see at least a pathway to a
Palestinian state, a Palestinian horizon, at this point, before it will consider that. What's Egypt's view?
KHALLAF: Back in 2002, the collective Arab world, 22 Arab countries offered the state of Israel an offer of historic proportion. Arab countries offered
the state of Israel full recognition in return of having an independent Palestinian state. So the Arab world is in a position to normalize with the
state of Israel, provided that there is an independent Palestinian state. Palestinians have the right to exercise their right for self-determination.
They would need a country of their own.
And that is a position which is a collective among Arab countries. And therefore the notion of normalization does exist among Arab countries. But
provided that that is in tandem and simultaneous with the establishment of a Palestinian state and Palestinians exercising their right for self-
determination.
[10:25:00]
ANDERSON: Which is not going to happen under this current government. So is it? I mean, Benjamin Netanyahu has completely written off the idea of a
two-state solution or a Palestinian state.
KHALLAF: Well, it would be an unfortunate situation. And again, we believe that this is the only pathway to achieve peace and security in the Middle
East. We believe that anyone who bypasses or circumvents this self-evident reality, that peace and security can be achieved without the establishment
of a Palestinian state, is living in a state of denial. It would be delusional to believe that peace and security can be achieved in this
region without the realization of an independent Palestinian state on the lines of 4th of June of 1967.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Tamim Khallaf speaking to me earlier this week.
Still to come, CNN's continuing coverage of the travel chaos caused by one of the world's busiest airports shutting down. More on that is after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. Youre watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. And these are your headlines.
A Ukrainian official says his country's third largest city was on fire after a massive Russian drone attack on the port city of Odesa late on
Thursday. Officials say three people were injured in the attack, which came hours after President Trump expressed optimism about ending the war.
Israel's defense minister says the military will expand ground operations and intensify airstrikes in Gaza until Hamas releases all the hostages held
there. Israel Katz also says the IDF plans to evacuate Gaza's population to the south and to implement U.S. president Donald Trump's voluntary transfer
plan for Gaza's residents.
Well, a huge fire near London Heathrow knocked out power, causing the international airport to completely shut down. Situation causing severe
disruptions to global travel. Experts estimate that upwards of 145,000 airline passengers could be impacted.
Well, I want to bring in Paul Charles. He runs a leading travel consultancy based in London.
You have huge experience of the airline industry, sir. This outage has already stranded hundreds of thousands of passengers. It'll take days to
get everyone where they need to be. What is the process once Heathrow gets going again?
PAUL CHARLES, CEO, THE PC AGENCY: It's a very good question. And the airlines, in fact, are talking to Heathrow as we speak about this.
[10:30:03]
What is that process once Heathrow knows when it will reopen? The problem is Heathrow just have no clarity itself, is saying it doesn't know when
it's going to be able to reopen, get its power systems back on track. When it does get power which I would expect over the weekend, but I don't think
it will be this evening, when it does get power, it will have to bring systems on stream bit by bit. You will not be able to go back to all
systems operating as normal in one fell swoop.
ANDERSON: You estimate, as I understand it, an overall cost of some 20 million to 30 million pounds, around $26 million to $32 million, sir, costs
on this. Break it down for us, sir. Who's going to cover these costs? Who will bear them and who will cover them?
CHARLES: So when you look back at the ash cloud, the Icelandic ash cloud that occurred in 2010, which was the last major occurrence when we saw
airspace across Europe closed, that over an eight to 10 day period cost around 280 million pounds for the airlines. Here at the moment luckily
we're only talking about one day unless it extends, and therefore when you break it down in terms of the cost that airlines face, youre looking at
around 20 million to 30 million sterling, $25 million to $35 million or so.
That is based on all airlines being affected. We're not just talking about British Airways, where the main airline at the Heathrow hub, or Virgin
Atlantic or Lufthansa being affected. This is every single airline that flies in and out of Heathrow with 290,000 passengers both in and outbound
during a 24-hour period, and those costs are for extra hotel accommodation, for planes being out of place, for extra fuel that might be needed when the
planes have to move again for moving your crew around.
Plus, all the knock-on effects from things that passengers like you and I face. Car hire, hotel accommodation, not just the flight itself.
ANDERSON: And airlines, of course, have got to find places to store aircrafts that are all out of sync at this point. And other airports of
course will be used and they are being used. And what goes into the logistics of sort of directing this traffic?
CHARLES: Well, flight planners in airlines have the job of working out where to put their planes. The problem at the moment is they're all
scratching their heads because they have no visibility from Heathrow on when services will be able to start operating again. And as you know, when
an aircraft is on the ground, it's costing money because it's not getting any money in. There's no revenue coming in from that plane as it should be
flying.
So the planners are eager to get their planes moving again. The problem is planes need to be in the air at some point because there isn't the capacity
at European airports to take in all these aircraft on the ground. So I would expect them to be getting these planes moving over the next 24 hours,
but without any visibility and certainty out of Heathrow on its power outage, it makes the job very difficult indeed.
ANDERSON: Look, London counter-terror police say they are investigating the fire, but they say that there is no indication of foul play. But clearly
this is going to be, you know, a wide ranging investigation. Where does it go from here?
CHARLES: Many people are surprised, of course, that something like this can happen. You might expect a significant power system to be knocked out, but
to have the backup system knocked out as well, which it seems happened in this case, is extraordinary, especially for such a significant asset and a
significant piece of infrastructure like Heathrow Airport, which is one of the best connected airports in the world.
So that's the first question the investigators will be asking is, how's the second backup system been knocked out as well as the first one? Then of
course, they'll need to look at how they get extra power, and you need huge amounts of power to operate an airport like Heathrow. We're not talking
about simply switching on a refrigerator or a television. We're talking about operating a major airport with major systems.
It's not easy to find extensive power at short notice, so that's what they'll be looking to do. I would expect them by tomorrow to have some
power back on stream, but the longer this goes on, the more the costs mount up, the more disruption for passengers, of course, and I would expect it to
be a week at this rate before things are back to normal.
ANDERSON: Yes. Look, the impact on business being reflected in the stocks of U.S. airlines.
[10:35:01]
The market there has been open for about three hours. I mean, the prices were significantly lower than they are at present. But let me just bring
those up. Delta, United and American all off and reflecting a drop in the share price of European carriers earlier on today.
U.S. airlines have issued a travel advisory for Heathrow. Look, I mean, you've been in the business of comms, which means you've been in the
business of crisis comms. How will the airport deal with its sort of reputation? How will it conduct this reputation control, as it were, after
this?
CHARLES: Well, generally, passengers have short memories, I think, because at the end of the day, they need to go from A to B when they want to get
from A to B, and depending on the price they're paying, they will still do it some weeks after an incident like this. And if Heathrow can get its
power back over the weekend and start getting systems back to normal over the next few days, it will be well in time before the peak Easter period.
Luckily, this incident has not occurred during the peak Easter period, when so many more people are traveling, so I think they'll be able to get things
back to normal. But yes, the reputation is around resilience. How is it that a major asset like this is able to come off line completely when you
have some of the newest airports in the world in Istanbul, in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, all over the world, their systems are located within the airport
perimeter.
And that's something I think the investigators will want to look at in future when they rebuild the power supplies. Can they be within the
confines of Heathrow rather than in a substation several miles away from it?
ANDERSON: And it's interesting. You bring up Abu Dhabi. That is where we are broadcasting from here. It is, of course, the last day of term here for
students at schools here in Abu Dhabi and elsewhere across the UAE. There will be many frustrated families, I'm sure, tonight. And fortunately who
were looking to make their way to London, if not elsewhere and impacted by this, I mean, we wish them well and we wish anybody who is watching this
today and there will be thousands of people around the world watching this interview here on CNN who are highly frustrated.
I mean, at this point, it is a question of patience. I think, Paul. It is good to have you on. Thank you very much indeed for providing your analysis
and your insight.
Well, the U.S. will try to make more headway next week in its push for a temporary ceasefire in Ukraine. Negotiators will meet in Saudi Arabia after
Kyiv and Moscow agreed to stop attacking each other's energy facilities.
As Fred Pleitgen reports, there are hopes that both sides will agree to stop attacks in the Black Sea. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Moscow has confirmed that the next round of talks between the Russians and the United
States is set to take place in Saudi Arabia this coming Monday, and the Russians are also saying that they have already chosen their negotiators
and that they are ready to go, essentially. However, at the same time, the Russians do seem to be trying to tone down the expectations somewhat. They
are calling this next round consultations rather than negotiations, and it's unclear how much headway can actually be achieved.
Now, one of the things that the Russians say is definitely going to be talked about is the so-called Black Sea initiative that is essentially
trying to stop fighting in the Black Sea area. For the Ukrainians, that would be extremely important, because the Ukrainians do use the Black Sea
and the ports that they have there to export a lot of their grain, which of course is very important for world markets, but also for the Ukrainian
economy as well.
And for the Russians the Black Sea has become very difficult in recent months. At the beginning of their special military operation, as they still
call it, they used the Black Sea and the Black Sea fleet to really target Ukrainian cities with missiles that were launched from ships. Now, they
can't do that to the same extent because the Ukrainians themselves have developed seaborne unmanned vehicles that have destroyed a lot of Russian
ships.
Both the U.S. and Russia, though, say that they hope that headway can be achieved. And at the same time, of course, the fighting in Ukraine
continues unrelenting. The Ukrainians are saying that the Russians are still launching drones towards Ukrainian territory. Dozens in the night
from Wednesday to Thursday. And the Russians say that the Ukrainians targeted one of Russia's main air bases called Engels, where the Russians
have a substantial part of their strategic bomber fleet with several drones as well.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: And that is Fred Pleitgen reporting for you.
Well, still ahead, police clash with demonstrators in Turkey. The fallout after authorities detain Istanbul's popular mayor. A live report on that is
on the way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:42:20]
ANDERSON: Waving Turkish flags, thousands of demonstrators defied a ban on public gatherings to protest the detention of Istanbul's popular mayor.
Clashes broke out between police and protesters on Thursday. Demonstrators took to the streets over what they call an un-democratic detention of the
mayor. He is facing several charges including aiding terrorists. He denies any wrongdoing.
Well, on the subject of this week's events, the political scientist Soner Cagaptay writes, "Erdogan aims to end the mayor's political career. But
does he not worry about global pushback? No." Erdogan, he says, is a keen zeitgeist reader.
Well, Soner is a senior fellow with the Washington Institute, and he joins us now live from Washington.
It's good to have you, sir. Thanks for joining us.
SONER CAGAPTAY, DIRECTOR, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY'S TURKISH RESEARCH PROGRAM: Thank you.
ANDERSON: What do you mean by Erdogan is a zeitgeist reader? Explain.
CAGAPTAY: Absolutely. I mean that President Erdogan is going to leverage the global community's view of Turkey's role in international politics to
his advantage. In the last decade Turkey has emerged as a swing state, a middle power, capable with a lot of military hardware that plays Russia,
Europe and U.S. against each other. These three powers all need Turkey, whether it is stabilizing post-war Ukraine to stabilizing Syria, preventing
refugee flows from there.
So I do not expect any of these powers to pick a fight with Erdogan over this issue. And I think he'll be spared a major criticism. There'll be no
pushback, no uninvited to summits, no sanctions, nothing meaningful. So Erdogan, as far as the global community is concerned, is free to do
whatever he likes at home right now.
ANDERSON: And that is fascinating. Given your insight there, given that we've seen very little pushback --
CAGAPTAY: Completely.
ANDERSON: In terms of statements or criticism apart from, and let me just bring this up, Germanys chancellor posting the following, "The arrest of
Istanbul's mayor is a depressing event for Turkish democracy and for our relationship." This is an outgoing European leader, of course, and I wonder
whether that is appropriate to the situation happening in Turkey. What's your sense?
CAGAPTAY: I think that Turkey is at an inflection point. Analysts, myself, have described the country's political system in the last decade, or half a
decade, as competitive authoritarianism. If Erdogan gets to pick his opponent, if he gets to jail Istanbul's popular mayor, if he can -- if he
gets to pick his opponent and jail Istanbul's popular mayor, who is the only politician in the country who can defeat him, that means Turkish
politics is no more competitive.
[10:45:10]
It becomes simply authoritarian. And I think that's an inflection point. Now with the outgoing German chancellor commenting, I think there's only
one factor here that will make a difference. There's only one thing about Turkey's politics over which Erdogan has no control, which is the markets.
Turkey is a resource poor country. It needs financial inflows to grow again, and Turkey has been suffering from high inflation. And I think that
at this point, if markets decide that Turkey is like Belarus, it is junk rate, that's the only factor that might force Erdogan to course correct.
ANDERSON: Mm. Europe is in a tight spot in relation to Erdogan. The E.U. needs to rearm for the Trump era. Turkey has a booming defense industry.
Europe needs to consider boots on the ground in Ukraine, and Turkey has a 350,000 strong army. And you argue that is likely why there is very little
pushback at this point.
What about in terms of the United States, who in the past would have led the defense of democracy, at least rhetorically? Here's the State
Department spokeswoman this week answering a very specific question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMMY BRUCE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We would encourage Turkey to respect human rights to handle its own internal framework appropriately.
But yes, it's a -- we're not going to comment on the decision-making, the internal decision-making of another country. But except to remind them that
we expect them to behave in a manner that respects the rights of all of its citizens. And I think that's pretty obvious. But it's good to repeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That is the Trump administration. What do you make of that?
CAGAPTAY: So President Erdogan and President Trump have excellent chemistry. It was reported that they recently spoke, and President Trump
might have invited Erdogan to Washington in April. I think that that visit, if it was discussed, will go forward. I do not expect any uninvites. I
think that the engagement will continue, but beyond the personal chemistry between the two principals, the United States needs Turkey in the global
power -- great power competition, as does Europe.
Europe is now constituting what could be called NATO in Europe, and that cannot have legs unless Turkey, which is a significant military power, is
part of it. So I think, Becky, at this stage, the constraints on Erdogan are more domestic. You have protests, but also a lot of citizens fear that
because of state capture by President Erdogan in the last decade, as a result of which Turkey has no independent institutions, very few
independent courts and media outlets which are actually counting their days as independent entities, citizens fear that if they stand up against this
arrest, they protest, they tweet, they'll be jailed rightly so.
So maybe these peaceful protests will overwhelm President Erdogan. It's hard to predict how these protests go. Recently, president of Serbia had to
stand down because of these protests. Maybe not, but I would say at this stage, Mayor Imamoglu's greatest strength is Imamoglu himself, which is why
President Erdogan went for the nuclear option by jailing him. Erdogan wants to end his political career. That is because Imamoglu has a lot of
Erdogan's qualities, but more.
Like Erdogan, he is conservative and nationalist, checks those boxes. But he's also a social Democrat politician, and he has a wider base than does
Erdogan. Erdogan's voters are all right-wing. Imamoglu's voters are on the right, on the left and on the center. And Erdogan knows that. If he is left
to run, Imamoglu that is, he'll be defeated by him and therefore he's decided to go for the nuclear option.
But if Imamoglu can keep his brand alive in jail. Many politicians have won elections from jail cell, including Nelson Mandela. He could make a
comeback.
ANDERSON: Right. Soner, it's good to get your perspective, sir. It is a perspective definitely worth hearing. Thank you, sir.
CAGAPTAY: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Just visiting. That is how a U.S. Defense Department spokesperson is describing Elon Musk's visit to the Pentagon today. He went there at the
invitation of the U.S. defense secretary. That visit with Pete Hegseth just wrapped up.
Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann joining me now. What more do we know about that visit? What happened?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Elon Musk was in the building for just under 90 minutes. He showed up at about 9:00 this morning. He left
at 10:21 a short time ago after meeting with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. The expectation and frankly, the preparation, was that the meeting
itself would be in the tank. That is where highly sensitive classified meetings are held often or perhaps always, with members of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff.
[10:50:00]
And in fact, the acting chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the top U.S. officer, went into that meeting as did or went into that room as did the
Defense Secretary's chief of staff. But Musk, after some time, did not show. Instead, he headed straight upstairs to Defense Secretary Pete
Hegseth's office, and that's where he stayed for a period.
The court -- the question, of course, is what were they talking about? There have been reports suggesting he was being briefed on Americas war
plans for China, which would, of course, be highly sensitive and classified, not to be given to somebody who's not cleared or a member of
the military involved in preparing or carrying out those plans.
The White House, the Pentagon and the administration pushed back hard on that, ripping the reporting instead. Others have reported it was an
unclassified briefing on the threat from China, which would be a much more sort of normal status briefing of looking around the world. But when Musk
left, neither he nor Hegseth shed any light on what they talked about. Instead, they left a short time ago, and as they walked out of their
meeting on the third floor of the building here from Hegseth's office, CNN asked how the meeting was, Musk said, it's always a great meeting, and then
said, I've been here before, you know? As the two of them laughed and headed for the entrance.
Outside the Pentagon, Musk and Hegseth shook hands. Musk told him, if there's anything I can do to be helpful, I'd like to see you. They did not
answer any questions or shouted questions about what they discussed, or if they discussed China. When "The New York Times" asked about that, Hegseth
said, why would I tell you?
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Oren. Thank you.
There you have it. Ahead on CNN, the latest on what is our breaking news out of London, one of the busiest airports in the world. Heathrow shut down
after fire shuts down the power there. We'll show you how one of my colleagues got caught up in the chaos.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: OK, this is the reality. We've all got our bags, but now we have to wait for the voucher to get the
taxi, to get to the hotel, which they say they've organized. But so far it's just a long, long, long line where I'm at the back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that is the voice of my colleague Richard Quest, who is in Sao Paulo in Brazil. He captured some of the travel chaos in that South
American country, triggered by London Heathrow Airport shutting down. And now we've got an update on the situation at Heathrow, just in to CNN, the
British utility company National Grid says it has restored power to parts of Heathrow on an interim basis.
But the airport says it is unclear when its supply will be reliably restored and is still urging passengers not to go to the airport. Well,
Richard eventually made his way to a hotel in Sao Paulo, where he is currently stranded. He is on assignment. And he filed this report for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Yes, I was on my way from Santiago in Chile to London via Sao Paulo, and we got to Sao Paulo. I boarded the plane. We're on there for about four
hours. It was the BA flight from Sao Paulo to London.
[10:55:01]
The crew were great, but there's nothing you can do about it. We're all on our phones. We're looking, we can see what's happening in Hayes in West
London, and I think sort of a quantum leap in one's mind that a fire thousands of miles away at an airport or near an airport has this tentacles
and ripples effects around the world.
And after four hours of sitting on the plane, drinking coffee, gossiping and chatting, they canceled the flight. And the basic rule when things go
wrong is when things go wrong. Look after yourself. So I grabbed a cab and found a hotel where I'm going to hopefully stay. Interestingly, thankfully,
my plane is here, so when Heathrow opens up in a few hours' time, I think I'm going to be OK to get to London.
The problem is, for those people whose planes never even left Heathrow, because now they are in a rolling series of delays. As planes arrive and
other passengers take priority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That is Richard Quest stuck in Sao Paulo.
And that is it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
