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U.S. & Ukraine in Paris for Highest-Level Talks in Weeks; Italian President Meloni & Trump to Meet for Tariff Talks; Judge Threatens Trump Administration with Contempt Charges; Chinese Professor Says China has been "Ripped Off"; Russia's Putin Hosts Emir of Qatar at the Kremlin. Aired 9- 10a ET

Aired April 17, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: You're looking at live pictures of the White House where President Trump just blasted the Federal Reserve

Chair Jerome Powell for warning that his tariffs could inflict major damage on the U.S. economy. It is 05:00 p.m. in Abu Dhabi. I'm Eleni Giokos. This

is "Connect the World".

Also coming up, Donald Trump, Secretary of State and special envoy are in Paris for high level talks on ending the war in Ukraine. U.S. talks with

Iran are also on the agenda. But will all this diplomacy yield progress. And the White House ratchets up its fight with Harvard University now

threatening its ability to teach international students.

Markets in the United States will open in around 30 minutes from now. Let's check in on how the futures are faring. As you can see, the DOW taking a

big hit. It's in the red, 1.3 percent in the negative, and that's after United Health posts worse than expected. Earnings today will be unpacking

that a little later.

And as you can see, S&P and NASDAQ firmly in the green. Now, the U.S. and Ukraine are poised to hold their highest-level talks in weeks. It's

happening in Paris alongside a European coalition of the willing summit on the ongoing war in Ukraine. The U.S. State Department says Secretary of

State Marco Rubio and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff are there to quote advanced President Trump's goal to end the war in Ukraine.

But for all of Donald Trump's vows to end the bloodshed, there's no end in sight. Russia has ramped up its strikes in recent weeks across Ukraine.

Overnight strikes killed at least five people. Our International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson is following it's all for us. Nic, always good to see

you.

I mean, all this talk, all these discussions on the go and of course, broken promises by President Donald Trump. We've also seen an increase in

strikes, specifically overnight. Give me a sense of what we're expecting the meetings today, and what progress can we anticipate?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, I don't think we can anticipate a lot of progress, to be perfectly honest. In fact, the fact

that we haven't been told that there will be a press conference afterwards is an indication that perhaps they don't feel that there will be any great

meeting of the minds coming together on narratives or even a way to push the narrative forward.

Look, it's a very important meeting. We shouldn't forget that because the United States, Steve Witkoff, in person, has been negotiating directly with

President Putin and many European's views buying the Putin narrative about why he keeps -- over signing up for it, for a ceasefire with Ukraine,

something Ukraine has already done an unconditional ceasefire, Putin continues to put, you know, put conditions out there or appears to that's

the perception from behind the scenes, certainly.

So, you know, it's important that these European Foreign Ministers will get to hear from Marco Rubio, perhaps, and Steve Witkoff directly. It's

important that Emmanuel Macron, who has been having a lunch with his foreign minister, with Marco Rubio, and Steve Witkoff, will be able to have

a conversation with Witkoff to perhaps drill down and hear a little bit more directly of exactly what Putin has been telling him.

And therefore, be able to give the French perspective on that, and be able to give advice, because Macron has had a very much longer than Steve

Witkoff. Indeed, has had a much longer relationship with President Putin, and perhaps track some better. Perhaps feels that he understands him

better.

And certainly, feel that there's European narrative to be communicated to the principal U.S. interlocutor with Putin. You have also, you know, got

these important discussions that are happening between Ukrainians, training foreign minister, defense minister, in town.

They're meeting with their key interlocutors in Europe, the French, the German and the British Foreign Ministers, who make up the leadership, not

just of the coalition of the willing, but the French and rather the Germans and the British are also the leaders of the contact group to support

Ukraine.

The group that essentially figures out where the weapons are coming from and gets into Ukraine, a position, by the way, abdicated by the United

States, the Pete Hegseth, current defense secretary, didn't show up for that meeting last Friday to NATO headquarters in Brussels.

So, all of these conversations are important, but the fact that they're so disjointed, even the fact that they might be happening at this stage is

indicative that there is no sense that the Russians are coming to the table. The perception by Western defense and intelligence, analyst says

that Putin feels no need to come to the table.

[09:05:00]

And that's what they point to, when they say, look, not only are the strikes up, six people, as you say, killed last night, one of them a 17-

year-old girl. It's the number of strikes that are ratcheting up over the past month. And that says to intelligence experts who study Russia and

their defense doctrine, that means they're still on the offensive. They're not considering moving to a peace position, that's the perception.

GIOKOS: Yeah. Nic Robertson, great to see you. Thank you so much for that analysis. We'll be keeping a close watch on those meetings, and any new

lines that we get, will be sharing those with you. Well, Iran will also be high on the agenda today in France, its foreign minister is now doubling

down on the country's right to uranium enrichment ahead of the second round of talks with the United States this weekend, saying it's non-negotiable.

CNN's Chief U.S. National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt is in Washington following the latest for us. Alex, always good to have you on.

So those comments from the Iranian Foreign Minister coming on the heels of some mixed signals out of the United States.

So where do you think stands right now? Because, I mean, frankly, it's got to do with whether Iran is allowed to have some nuclear enrichment, uranium

enrichment or none at all.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Eleni, there were talks held last Saturday between the Iran and U.S. sides, and

there are talks again this Saturday, and they do appear to have gone well during the first round. And then during the course of the week, we've heard

an evolving position, if you will, from the U.S. side, from Steve Witkoff, Trump's envoy to the Middle East, who is in those meetings and will be

again in Rome on Saturday.

Evolving in the eyes perhaps of the Americans, but contradictory in the eyes of the Iranians. The Iranians have a very bright red line, even if

they were to give up their nuclear enrichment program for the potential of nuclear weapons. They are very firm on the necessity of holding on to a

civilian nuclear program, and they say that, that is absolutely non- negotiable.

That is something that Steve Witkoff would have heard last Saturday in those meetings in Oman. When Witkoff came back from Oman, he gave an

interview to Fox News saying that there's no reason that Iran needs to enrich above 3.67 percent, that's a very specific number.

But that indicated that the U.S. appeared to be on board, or OK, at least, with some kind of enrichment program for civilian energy purposes. And then

the next day, Witkoff put out a very specific tweet, a more maximalist position on the platform X, in which he essentially said that Iran

shouldn't have any enrichment program at all.

He wrote, Iran must stop and eliminate its nuclear enrichment and weaponization program. So that is much more of a maximalist approach. Is

the kind of attitude that we've heard from others in the administration, like the National Security Advisor Mike Waltz. It's something that we've

heard from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who says that Iran's nuclear program, civilian and military should be dismantled

altogether.

So, we are hearing that frustration from the Iranians. They're certainly going to want clarification on Saturday. What we are expecting is the two

sides to come together again on Saturday, this time in Rome, but again with mediation by the Omanis, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah. I mean, look, let's take a wider view here. You've got Steve Witkoff, who is taking an ever-expanding portfolio on the president,

clearly putting a lot of trust in him. But is it manageable? And I wonder if there's any friction within the administration of how to handle Iran.

MARQUARDT: Well, there certainly is. There are certainly different camps. There are some people who believe that Iran should be targeted with

military strikes now because they are historically vulnerable. There are some like Mike Waltz who want to see the nuclear program taken apart

completely.

But then we're also seeing some compromise, perhaps by President Trump, perhaps by Steve Witkoff, that could allow, eventually for Iran to have

some kind of civilian nuclear program. And that's what these talks are really getting at. But more broadly, there's no question that Witkoff has

emerged as the main point man on essentially the biggest foreign policy portfolios for President Donald Trump, in the past few months.

He has been in charge of the ceasefire in Gaza, of helping negotiate some kind of peace between Russia and Ukraine, and now these Iranian nuclear

talks. And so, there are a lot of people who say this is a good thing, because there's he has the trust of the president. He is perhaps closer to

the president than anybody else in the foreign policy circles, but he lacks the expertise.

And when it comes to something like these, Iranian nuclear negotiations, these are extremely specific, extremely technical talks. And so, we have

heard some skepticism from experts, from some former officials.

[09:10:00]

Here is Wendy Sherman, who engaged with the Iranians on these nuclear talks in the Biden Administration. Take a listen. I apologize we don't have that

sound. But essentially, Wendy Sherman, among others, has said that Witkoff, while he has the trust of the president, he doesn't have the technological

know-how.

So, what we expect to happen is, if there is progress made on the Iranian front, that then that will be followed by the technical teams who can iron

out the finer details. But no question, Eleni, Witkoff occupies a unique position, not just in this administration, but in terms of how past modern

administrations have approached foreign policy, the others being much more traditional than what we're seeing from the Trump Administration, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah. I mean, these are absolutely vital negotiations, not only for the region, but frankly, you know, for United States and foreign policy as

well. Alex Marquardt, great to have you with us. Thank you.

MARQUARDT: Thank you.

GIOKOS: Well, President Trump now is blasting Fed Chair Jerome Powell this morning on social media, writing quote, his termination cannot come fast

enough. Stocks falling on Wednesday after Powell warned that the presidents on again, off again tariffs and the uncertainty surrounding them could

inflict lasting damage on the U.S. economy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, CHAIR OF U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE: Unemployment is likely to go up as the economy slows in all likelihood, and inflation is likely to go up

as tariffs find their way. And some part of those tariffs come to be paid by the public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: -- at the White House, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni will meet with Mr. Trump in the coming hours of a tariff tensions between the EU

and U.S. Italy's conservative leader is hopeful of positioning herself as a mediator in Trans-Atlantic Trade negotiations, given her close allegiance

to the president.

While the European Commission welcomes the trip, some French officials fear it threatens the blocks unity. Alayna Treene is at the White House standing

by to give us an update. Alayna, first President Trump is not happy with the Federal Reserve Chair. Break this down for us.

What does it mean? And we all know the Federal Reserve is an independent entity, and we'll take a look at whatever impacts inflation.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right into your last point there, Eleni, it's something actually Jerome Powell emphasized in those

remarks in Chicago yesterday, saying that it's a matter of law that the Federal Reserve acts as an independent agency separate from politics.

But look to get into the relationship between President Donald Trump and the Federal Reserve Chair is to remember some of the context around this.

This is a fraught relationship that has gone back several years now, even to the president's first term, when Powell was still in that role.

The president has often threatened to try and remove Powell from his post, again, not really within his power or authority to do so. But this isn't

the first time we've heard the president criticize him. The reason it's so striking and significant now though, Eleni, is because of the timing of

these remarks, of course.

It comes just a day after Powell had said really issued his most striking warning yet about the state of the economy. He called the president's

tariff plans a challenging scenario for the central bank. He argued that it put some of its two main priorities at odds with each other.

One, of course, which is making sure the labor force is stable, but also keeping inflation stable as well. One thing as well that Powell said was

that he believes that the Federal Reserve has more time to kind of weigh whether or not to move interest rates, to cut interest rates, until they

figure out more certainty and more clarity on what Trump's trade plans are going to look like.

All to say that is something that the president did not want to hear. He has often said that he wants the Federal Reserve to cut rates, and he said

that again this morning. I am sure that this is not the last we are hearing regarding this fight between the two, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah. Right. I want to shift focus now. You've got Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni visiting the White House. She's been dubbed as the

Trump whisperer. What do you think her goals are for this meeting? Is she representing the European Union to try and put to bed this tariff war that

is emerging and perhaps getting a deal on the go?

TREENE: That's exactly right. I mean, look, it's very notable and significant that Prime Minister Meloni is going to be the first European

official to sit face to face with President Donald Trump today since his tariffs went into effect. And there's a reason for that, and something that

the European Union should look at kindly, because Meloni and the president have a very good relationship.

President Trump has often said how much he likes her. She's visited him at Mar-a-Lago in the past. They met on the sidelines when many world leaders

went to Paris late last year for the reopening of the Notre Dame Cathedral. I mean, they are people who have a long-standing relationship.

[09:15:00]

She's also very close with one of the president's top allies, Elon Musk as well. But she also has her work, of course, cut out for her. Now, one thing

that's notable as well is that the president and the Trump Administration, how are viewing the European Union as one block, as one partner to work on

trading negotiations with.

So, she won't be just representing Italy, but all of Europe itself. And of course, one of the key things that she's going to try and see and make

headway on today is to really see if they can get some sort of agreement to either reduce or even eliminate the 20 percent tariff that President Donald

Trump had previously put on Europe for that reciprocal tariff as part of the broader plan.

But also, you know, seeing if they can keep this pause that he has until July 9th in place, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Yeah. Alayna Treene, thank you so much. Well, the Trump Administration is stepping up its threats against Harvard University. The

Department of Homeland Security is now threatening to revoke Harvard's ability to enroll international students if it doesn't turn over student

disciplinary records to the agency.

The department also announced two federal grants to Harvard worth millions of dollars were being canceled. And sources tell CNN, the IRS is making

plans to revoke the university's tax-exempt status. All of these moves coming after Harvard rejected a list of policy changes demanded by the

White House, including the elimination of DEI programs.

For more on this, let's bring in William Araiza. He is a Professor of Law at Brooklyn Law School. Bill, great to have you with us. Thanks so much for

taking the time. Does President Trump have legal grounds to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status and its ability to teach international

students?

WILLIAM ARAIZA, PROFESSOR OF LAW AT BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL: There is a web of federal law that governs the relationship between universities, private

universities like Harvard and the federal government. Certainly, there is legal authority for exempt -- for withdrawing tax exempt status from a

university, if in fact it violates certain provisions of federal law.

But that just begs the question of whether, in fact, Harvard has violated them, and what kind of process Harvard has gotten before a violation is in

fact found to exist.

GIOKOS: Let's talk about the options for Harvard fighting back, because they've basically signaled that they will. Do you believe that there should

be some -- as a coalition with other universities? What options do you think these institutions have right now?

ARAIZA: Sure. So, one option is simply to sit tight and to refuse any demands from the administration and let the administration come after them

in a Title 6 proceeding. Another option would be to sue proactively claiming that Harvard is being injured even by the threat of a withdrawal

of federal funds.

Yet, a third approach, which is not inconsistent with one of the other two, would be for Harvard to join with similar universities, like, for example,

Columbia to mount a public relations campaign pushing back against the Trump Administration's attempts to cut funding. So, Harvard has a number of

options here.

GIOKOS: You know, one of the big messaging coming through from the Trump Administration is that this is a fight against antisemitism, but if you

look at the list of demands and policy changes that are being demanded, it stretches far beyond looking at antisemitism as a problem on campuses.

And I wonder what you think this means in terms of setting a precedent where you've got the government getting directly involved in what should be

a bastion of free speech and learning.

ARAIZA: Yes, certainly, the demands made by the federal government on Harvard, just like the demands made on Columbia and other universities, go

well beyond concerns about toleration of antisemitism. This was a very aggressive letter that the administration sent to Harvard.

As you noted, making demands all across the board of how Harvard organizes itself, how it teaches the rights it provides its faculty and its students.

So, this is indeed extremely aggressive tactics being taken by the administration. And frankly, one that we already seen before.

We've seen this in the Trump Administration's dealings with the big law firms. The president leaned on law firms. A number of them, as we all know,

decided to reach agreements with the administration, and now the administration comes back and demands more. This is an administration, and

we should know this from the character of the president.

This is an administration that is going to keep pushing until someone says no, and so it doesn't surprise me that the demands that it's making on

Harvard go far beyond the stated concerns with antisemitism, which are not unreasonable concerns, to be frank, but the demands go far beyond, how

Harvard has potentially tolerated antisemitism.

[09:20:00]

GIOKOS: All right. Bill Araiza, great to have you with us. Thank you. So, as we've reported, Harvard's international students are not the only ones

being targeted by the Trump Administration. By CNN's counts more than 840 international students and recent graduates at more than 130 schools in the

U.S. have had their visas or other legal documents revoked, this year.

The Trump Administration has given a number of reasons accusing them of either participating in pro Palestine campus protests or of committing

other violations of U.S. law. Coming up next, a deepening controversy, a dramatic legal ruling about the Trump Administration deporting Venezuela's

to El Salvador.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GIOKOS: Welcome back now. Let's connect you to what could become an extraordinary showdown between the Trump Administration and the legal

system. A district judge has ruled there is probable cause to hold the administration in criminal contempt. It's for breaking the judge's order to

stop last month's deportation flights of alleged Venezuelan gang members to El Salvador.

The Justice Department is appealing a crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz is in Washington with more, Katelyn, welcome. What does the

judges reading mean for the Trump Administration, particularly given its crack down on immigration? Can you break that down for us?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it means that their tangles with Judge Jeb Boasberg over those migrant flights in mid-

March when he ordered the planes to turn around, and the administration did not do that. He sent them on those Venezuelan migrants on to the Salvadoran

prison to hand those men over.

That is not over. So, there are going to be more proceedings before Judge Jeb Boasberg. What it means in a bigger picture on the administration's

immigration policies, they're going to continue very likely to keep saying that the courts should not have any role in telling the president what to

do about foreign policy and especially about immigration.

But what this is about, it's about the judge now putting them on the path toward a criminal contempt conviction, meaning open defiance of a court

order. You just can't do that in the American legal system, there is a court order, and you follow it until that court order says something else.

The next steps in this particular proceeding, Judge Boasberg wants some sworn statements from the people who were privy to those flights taking off

and not turning around on March 15, while he was having a hearing and giving orders from the bench. There also may be live witness testimony in

the future before his court.

[09:25:00]

And then to determine whether there is indeed enough here for a criminal contempt conviction of lawyers from the Justice Department or Trump

Administration officials, Judge Boasberg, could refer this to prosecution to the Trump Justice Department. Very unlikely they would do anything with

that.

Or he could appoint his own special prosecutor. At the end of the day, what happens if someone is convicted of criminal contempt? We're not there yet,

but this is the path we're on. It is punishment in some way, shape or form, by the court system, Eleni.

GIOKOS: Well, we'll be watching this one closely. Katelyn Polantz, thank you. Well coming up on the opening bell in New York on the heels of Donald

Trump's scavenging rebuke of the U.S. Fed Chief will bring that to you just ahead. And Trump's tariffs on China are being rebuffed in an unusual way on

TikTok. We'll explain. That's coming up next. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GIOKOS: Welcome back. I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi, and you're watching "Connect the World". These are your headlines. U.S. Secretary of State,

Marco Rubio and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff are in Paris this hour. The White House said they'd be discussing President Trump's goal to end the

Russia war against Ukraine with their UAE counter parts.

Ukraine has also sent top ministers to Paris to take part in meetings with the U.S. More pressure is being applied to Harvard in its standoff with the

Trump Administration over demands that it changes a raft of policies. Homeland Security is threatening to strip the university of its ability to

enroll international students if it doesn't hand over student disciplinary records.

While sources tell CNN, the IRS is working to revoke the institution's tax- free status. President Trump lashing out at U.S. Fed Chair Jerome Powell today on social media, saying his termination can't come fast enough. The

outburst followed a stock market slump Wednesday after Paul warned that trumps tariffs and the uncertainty around them could trigger high inflation

and slower growth.

Right. We're a few seconds away from the start of trade in New York. We're waiting for that opening bell.

[09:30:00]

We've had a lot of volatility in the markets of late, and many anticipate that, that is set to continue. All right, and there it is, always

excitement when you hear that bell. But of course, the underlying message that we've been seeing is a lot of uncertainty, a lot of concern about what

the tariff scenario could mean, not only for the U.S. economy, but for multinationals as well.

One thing that is dragging down the DOW JONES specifically this morning is United Health, and that is because of the company missing its earnings

forecast and coming under pressure quite significantly. It is taking a double digit knock this morning, dragging the DOW lower, and as you can

see, the S&P is sitting in the green and so is the NASDAQ.

Now we know how American consumers are digesting Trump's tariff policies, but how people in China reacting where Trump plans to impose 145 percent

tariffs. Well, Beijing is taking this trade war to a new battle ground. America's TikTok feeds of course. Chinese suppliers have been urging social

media users in the U.S. to save themselves a few dollars as tariffs loom and buy directly from factories. Here's what one of those videos looks

like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess most of you know the price of Lululemon or other big brands, they sell you lagging pants for hundred dollars and guess

what? Here in these two factories, you can get them for around five to six bucks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS: Earlier, I spoke to a Chinese Professor and Economics Expert Victor Gao about all of that, here are his thoughts on the ramifications of the

growing trade war between the world's super powers and his advice for America, take a look.

VICTOR GAO, CHAIR PROFESSOR OF SOOCHOW UNIVERSITY: What these applications or companies behind them are telling the American people is that while

China is the workshop for the world. China is also where all these luxury goods are being produced, up to 50 percent if not even higher, for example,

for the Rolex watch, which is well recognized throughout the world.

I understand, without having done my own verification, about 80 percent of the Rolex watches are made in China, but then they become Swiss made, and

they become luxury goods. They are sold into the United States and many other places. Now, when China sells these luxury goods to the European or

American companies, actually the cost is very, very low.

So those who work on these products actually do not make a lot of money in China, but when they are sold to the end users, they sell for exorbitant

price. Now, I think what the Chinese factors want to tell them is that, well, for all these years, you are being ripped off by whoever who is

involved in this value chain.

And now on top of that, the U.S. government, now that President Trump wants to charge, let's say, 145 percent tariff, or even up to 245 percent tariff,

that will completely destroy the marketability of these products to the American people. So maybe you can approach me, I have equally good

products, and I can sell you at factory price, for example.

And even on top of all these tariffs, it becomes still very much affordable to the American people. I even heard that the Americans are really flying

to China on charter plane sometimes just to buy goods in China, because they are much cheaper here in China, and when you bring back to the United

States by satisfying for the custom rules, et cetera, you can still end up being better off than buying all the expensive things in U.S., plus all the

tariff --

GIOKOS: So, here's my question, Victor, here's my question then. There's always been a big question around why China has been able to manufacture at

such a low cost. And even when you look through the WTO websites, and you look at some of the complaints over the years, since China joined the WTO

in 2001, there's been concerns about subsidies which distort trade by the way.

There's been concern about currency manipulation on the renminbi. There's been concern about all of these factors that have given China a competitive

edge, because industrializing a country, no matter where you are in the world, let's not call it America and China. Every single government wants

that in order to increase its manufacturing base, it creates jobs, and it's good for the people.

GAO: Let me tell the real truth. The reason why Chinese production is so efficient is based on several things. One is that China produces a lot of

power in terms of industrial use of power. China consumes six times more power than the United States does.

[09:35:00]

Now the second thing is very efficient, brand-new, top-quality infrastructure. You're talking about highways, railways, airports, sea

ports of all kinds. So that in China you can move things back and forth from corner to tomer, from hinterland to the coastline, et cetera, with

great efficiency.

Now the other thing is that China has accumulated such a cluster, what we call that cluster of all the spare parts, raw materials, et cetera. So, you

can really make almost anything in the world if you do the production locally here in China. Now the other thing equally important, and many

people say, well, China is cheap labor, et cetera.

Let me say Chinese labor is no longer cheap, but the Chinese labor is highly disciplined, and most of my countrymen are very eager to work.

GIOKOS: Let's talk about the current negotiations, or perhaps the talks that are on the go. You've got this trade war that is playing out in real

time, a huge confrontation between the U.S. and China. Where do you think it is headed? I can see that China is not going to be backing down.

President Trump and his administration are really going full force on various products, but you have leverage, and you have leverage on rare

earths. So how do you think this is going to play out? What's your prognosis?

GAO: Thank you very much. I think this is the moment of truth. I think all of us need to defend free trade. So, the real choice is not between U.S. or

China. The real choice is between whichever country which wants to defend free trade and whichever country which wants to throw a big wedge into free

trade, to disrupt or even destroy free trade.

Now, in this particular sense, I truly believe the United States under President Trump are throwing a wedge into free trade, and China is becoming

the standard barrier of free trade. Now, protecting free trade is not just for China's interest, it is for everyone's interest. Free trade liberates

everyone and makes win-win situation for all the participating countries.

Now I heard that Lighthizer wrote a book called "No Trade is Free". Allow me to say to him, that means your heart and your soul are not free, that

means you are being bothered by demons in your soul. Free trade is the mega trend, all of us need to embrace free trade. So, this is the moment of

truth.

I think China is doing the right thing, protecting free trade, advocating free trade, and fight off whichever country, big or small, which wants to

destroy free trade.

GIOKOS: Victor, does China need the U.S. consumer? China has a population of 1.4 billion people. There's a growing middle class. Does China need the

U.S. consumer?

GAO: Let me give a two-part answer very quickly. Of course, China needs the American people, American consumers. For 46 years in a row, China worked so

hard. We used the best material. We use the best workforce. We use the best speed. Try to beat the deadline, try to send all the goods to the United

States.

And we make all kinds of things for the U.S. market. But now if Trump says, no way, all your Chinese export to the United States destroy jobs in the

United States, you are raping China. You are really having ulterior motives in China. I think China's government has already made up its mind.

Forget about the U.S. market. We will live without the United States for another 5000 years. So, I think China is at this moment of truth again, we

are mobilizing all domestic demand try to accommodate whatever that could not be sold to the U.S. market, while exploring all the possible overseas

market to make up for whatever business is lost in the U.S. market.

So eventually, I think we are faced with a possible situation where trade between China, the United States both ways will grind to a halt. And China,

U.S. economically speaking, will have decoupling. But what will be the consequence that will not make America stronger or greater, that will make

the United States probably more miserable,

GIOKOS: The newly revamped FIFA Club World Cup is headed to the United States this summer. And the President Gianni Infantino popped by to see Coy

Wire and the CNN sports team in Atlanta earlier this week. That interview coming your way in "World Sport". Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:00]

GIOKOS: Welcome back. Now, let's get you up to speed on some other stories that are on our radar right now, as France hosts talks about the war in

Ukraine today. Russian President Vladimir Putin, welcome the Emir of Qatar to the Kremlin. Qatar has made a series of attempts to mediate between

Russia and Ukraine.

Mr. Putin told the Emir it was important that Russia be involved in discussions regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict and in rebuilding

Syria. In Gaza, Israel bombed displacement camp overnight, killing at least 15 people, according to Gaza Civil Defense. This was the scene at the camp

after the air strike.

A Palestinian man says his 12-year-old nephew was burned to death in his wheelchair. And finally, tonight, more than a million homes and nearly

everyone on the island Puerto Rico remains without power after a massive outage led to an island white blackout on Wednesday.

No word yet on how it happened, but officials say it could last several days. Tens of thousands of people have also lost running water. Well, that

is it for this hour of "Connect the World". I will be back at the top of the hour with more. And "World Sport" is coming up next. Stay tuned, and

we'll see you soon.

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