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Saudi Defense Minister Visits Tehran as Talks Proceed; Marco Rubio Says U.S. Should "Move On" If Peace Deal Not Reached Soon; China Places Export Controls on Rare Earth Minerals; U.S. Appeals Court Says Kilmar Abrego Garcia Entitled to Due Process; Some Children Left to Navigate U.S. Immigration Court on Their Own; Two Dead, Five Wounded at Florida State University Shooting; Growing Number of Israeli Reservists Call for End to Conflict; U.S. Judge Rules Google an Online Advertising Monopoly; Aired 10- 11a ET
Aired April 18, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:26]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, welcome back to the second hour of the show from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky
Anderson. Time here is just after 6:00 p.m.
Ramping up diplomatic efforts between the U.S. and Iran, the Iranian foreign minister in Moscow today saying a nuclear deal with Washington is
possible, but with Russia's support.
The U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying Donald Trump will, quote, "move on" from trying to end the Ukraine war if a peace deal is not
achieved soon.
And big tech companies facing huge legal pressures. A judge ruling that Google is an online advertising monopoly, while Meta facing a high stakes
trial over antitrust laws.
We're following high stakes diplomacy across the globe today ahead of what is a second round of nuclear negotiations between Iran and the U.S. U.S.
envoy Steve Witkoff meeting with senior Israeli official Ron Dermer and the Mossad director, David Barnea, in Paris before he heads up these U.S. Iran
talks on behalf of Donald Trump.
Meantime, in Moscow, the Iranian foreign minister was welcomed to the Kremlin. He told his Russian counterpart a deal was possible if the U.S.
does not make unreasonable demands. Well, the Iranians have said, continuing with their nuclear program is a non-negotiable. And this week,
the U.S. has sent mixed signals on whether it will allow Tehran to keep a nuclear civilian program that stopped short of producing the uranium needed
for a bomb.
This is what the U.S. president said on Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to do anything that's going to hurt anybody. I really don't, but Iran can't have a nuclear
weapon. It's, you know, pretty simple. It's really simple. We're not looking to take their industry. We're not looking to take their land. We're
not -- all we're saying is you can't have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Firas Maksad is a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute. Mohammad Ali Shabani is the editor of Amwaj Media. That is an
outlet focused on Iran and the Arabian Peninsula.
Thank you both for being with us. And I do want to start with the lens from where I am here in the Gulf.
Firas, you have a sharp focus on internal Saudi politics. Let me start with you.
Before these scheduled U.S.-Iran talks over the weekend, I want to get your and Mohammed's reaction to the images that we saw yesterday of Saudi
Arabia's defense minister in Tehran. This would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. And he saw the frankly the highest leaders. Just explain
for our viewers the significance of this visit.
FIRAS MAKSAD, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Well, Becky, it's good to be with you again. You're right. I mean, this kind of Saudi visit at
that level, the level of Khalid bin Salman, KBS, the minister of defense, is unprecedented. And the Iranians also did not stick to protocol by
granting him an audience with the supreme leader. So we're seeing kind of an exchange of pleasantries between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
And I think that what that signals is, at a time of heightened tensions, when things are really starting to come to a head here between now and the
end of the summer, and at a time when it's been revealed that the Israelis have been planning an attack on Iran as early as May, that the Saudis are
pursuing a policy of maximum flexibility at a time when the Trump administration is pursuing a policy of maximum pressure against Iran.
And in many ways, the Saudis here are hedging while they're very firmly anchored in the American security umbrella in the region in terms of their
alliances. The Crown Prince MBS' primary objective is to protect his project, to protect Vision 2030, which aims at the long term development of
the kingdom. Obviously, also, the American campaign in Yemen is something that the Saudis are watching very closely.
They have pursued a detente with the Houthis, the Iranian backed militias there, and the last thing they want to see is the kingdom get into a middle
of a crisis that is currently brewing in the region, particularly with Iran.
[10:05:12]
ANDERSON: Let me bring you in, Mohammed, for your thoughts. What do you believe the aim of that visit was?
MOHAMMAD ALI SHABANI, EDITOR, AMWAJ MEDIA: Thank you for having me, Becky. I agree with most of what your previous guest said. I think that the
significance of sending the defense minister was also the younger brother of the crown prince is to have a security oriented focus to try to keep
Saudi Arabia away from conflict that may jeopardize its flagship Vision 2030 program, which relies on getting foreign investment, which relies on
peace and stability in the region, which relies on not just peace with the Houthis in Yemen, but also peace with Iran.
We've seen in recent weeks reports that Iran and its neighbors have been communicating about the necessity of those neighbors staying out of any
conflict, potential conflict between Iran and the U.S. Saudi Arabia is home to multiple U.S. bases. It does not want to be dragged into a conflict
between Iran and the U.S., or a conflict between Iran and Israel. I think the significance of sending a senior defense official, rather than a, let's
say, foreign minister, and to be received at the highest level in Iran, at the level of the supreme leader, suggests that there is an understanding on
both sides that they want to avoid conflict.
ANDERSON: Firas, in response to the NYT reporting recently that said that Donald Trump had waved off an attack by Israel on Iran, you posted on X the
following. "Given that Iran is 80 times the size of Israel in scope and diversification of its nuclear program, ground ops seem almost designed to
trigger, one, Iranian dash for nukes, two, big attack on Israel. In both instances, U.S. military likely to get dragged in."
Maybe the goal, you say, question mark. And is this your assessment as to why it is that we've also seen the Saudi defense minister in Tehran, one
saying we're not involved and getting involved in any dispute that might or any conflict with Israel that might drag the U.S. in? And is this also the
message, as it were, to Washington from Riyadh?
MAKSAD: Yes, Becky, I'm not entirely sure as to the origins of that tweet. I don't think that was me, but that be the case, I do think that the Saudis
here are not undertaking these diplomatic initiatives with Tehran separate and disconnected from the Trump administration. I think there's a great
deal of coordination and the Trump administration very much understands that the last time around that we had the maximum pressure campaign in the
first administration of President Trump, the Saudis, the UAE and others in the region very much found themselves as being the soft underbelly of that
policy.
They were the punching bag in many ways. And we all recall the hijacking of ships in the Persian Gulf from the UAE. Certainly, the attack against Saudi
energy facilities in Abqaiq in 2019. And so really kind of stepping aside from this brewing confrontation is something that the Trump administration
very much understand is also in its interest because if Saudi Arabia and global energy facilities come under attack, this is certainly not in the
interest of a president that's very mindful of where oil prices are.
And so this is something that is happening in coordination, not in disconnect with the Trump administration. I would also say that there are
currently proposals being floated for the Saudis to mediate and to actually host even a possible meeting between the Iranian president and President
Trump when he's due to visit Saudi Arabia in May. Now, whether that will actually come to fruition and kind of a momentous piece of in display of
diplomacy in Riyadh, which has been the center of much diplomacy, including over the war in Ukraine recently, that's something that's yet to be
determined. But it is being floated and it is being discussed.
ANDERSON: Apologies, Firas. That was Mohammad's tweet. Perhaps why you didn't recognize it as your own.
Mohammad, let me bring you in. At this point, the context for a lot of what we are seeing at present does seem to have been set as far as the timeline
is concerned ahead of this, Donald Trump trip to this region, correct?
[10:10:05]
ALI SHABANI: So there's definitely a -- there are speculations about Saudi efforts to forge some kind of engagement between Iran and the U.S.
Presently there's Oman as the Arab state acting as the interlocutor. They are set to meet in Italy tomorrow even though Oman is the mediator still. I
think Saudi Arabia again is really cognizant of its experience as Firas noted during the previous Trump administration, when Yemeni forces
allegedly attacked its oil facilities and there was no such thing as U.S. intervention, neither against Houthis, neither against Iran at that time.
So I think MBS is highly cognizant of the limits of what Trump is willing and able to do. Trump ultimately wants to avoid another costly war in the
Middle East. And as such, I think Saudi Arabia, while coordinated with the U.S., also is very, very careful not to get caught in the middle of a war
between Iran and other parties because, first and foremost, it's Saudi Arabia which is going to pay for such a conflict.
Right now, Saudi Arabia is exposed in terms of having military facilities, its oil facilities potentially attacked in case the United States uses its
oil to attack Iran. That's number one. But at the same time, its Vision 2030 relies on high oil prices. Saudi Arabia needs oil revenues to move
away from oil. And so right now, while a conflict may spike oil prices, its oil facilities are at the front line of any kind of conflict. So it's in a
terrible position.
At the same time, we've seen Trump's tariff threats push down oil prices. So I think Saudi Arabia is under pressure from every direction right now.
And I think this is partly to do with this outreach to Iran. It's really trying to hedge in every single direction right now to avoid being dragged
into a conflict not of its making.
ANDERSON: Firas, finally, you are in Washington. It does seem to be unclear at this point what Donald Trump's very specific message to the Iranians is,
with regard to enrichment and its civilian nuclear program. Is it any clearer at this point what this second round of talks are likely to
achieve?
MAKSAD: I think that there's still some degree of uncertainty whether the American position is complete dismantlement of the nuclear program, i.e.,
no enrichment even at a lower grade level for civilian purposes. What Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu would like to determine dubbed as
Libyan style, or in fact it is much more of a sort of monitoring and verification program similar to that of the JCPOA, the nuclear deal that
was achieved by President Obama in 2015 and which President Trump himself pulled out of.
I think right now after the administration trying to get on the same page because there are different voices within the administration, certainly
more hawkish voices that are closer to the Israeli view, those that are closer to those of Steven Witkoff, the American envoy, which want to see
some kind of verification mechanism. I think the bottom line position here is that there cannot be a pathway to a bomb.
Not now, not in 10 years. We all recall these sunset clauses in the previous deal. And so what we're really possibly gearing ourselves to is
from here until the end of summer, when these snapback sanctions are due to take place, there might be an opening for an interim mini deal that sort of
demonstrates Iran's willingness to pull back from where it is right now in terms of enrichment levels, in terms of the amount of fissile material,
some of that might have to go overseas.
And that opened up the space then to get beyond the snapback sanctions deadline of late summer or early fall. Whether we get there, whether the
administration will see that as being enough, that's a whole different question, particularly because American military might in the region right
now with two aircraft carriers and strike groups, six B-52 bombers, THAAD, and Patriot anti-aircraft missiles being moved in from the agent theaters,
that is not sustainable for more than two to three months.
And we have those snapback sanctions. So the Americans don't want to lose the leverage that they currently have. The hope is to get to a deal by the
end of summer. But we also might find ourselves in that kind of interim deal situation or possibly a military strike.
ANDERSON: Yes, it is unclear but it's good to have you guys here to unpick what we do know at this point and do a deep dive on what we should be
asking ourselves. It's good to have you. Thank you both.
Well, time running short on U.S. efforts to end the war in Ukraine. That news coming from U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who says that
negotiations which have of course dragged on now for weeks must yield progress soon.
[10:15:02]
Rubio speaking today in Paris, a day after he attended high level talks there with European and Ukrainian officials. Here's part of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We need to figure out here now within a matter of days whether this is doable in the short term, because if it's
not, then I think we're just going to move on from our perspective that the president feels very strongly about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, in the midst of diplomacy, Russian missiles and drones still striking and Ukrainians are still dying. Overnight attacks killed at
least five people and injured dozens more. Some feared trapped under the rubble of this damaged apartment building in Kharkiv.
Well, Nic Robertson back with us this hour.
What will happen if the U.S. does, quote, "move on" from the war in Ukraine and Ukraine left to handle itself on the battlefield -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I mean, if move on means the U.S. no longer has a commitment and gives a commitment to
intelligence sharing, to military support, to economic support, that really does shift the burden onto European partners. And that's something the U.S.
says that it wants to see happen regardless.
I think what we've been looking at since that big bust up of the White House between President Trump and President Zelenskyy back in February, the
Europeans moved so quickly to kind of shore things up and offer these security guarantees. But they didn't go public with really with what those
guarantees were. They continue to talk about them, but it's behind closed doors. And I think the understanding has been all along they don't want to
say anything about what they're discussing, because they don't want to damage the U.S. efforts that are happening in a more public domain between
Steve Witkoff, President Trump's envoy, and President Putin.
But if the U.S. decides to move on, then all these things that the Europeans have been talking about, the possibility, possibility of boots on
the ground, planes in the sky, sort of all manner of different scenarios of security support for Ukraine, maybe those come into plain view. And that's
what moving on looks like, a much bigger burden for the Europeans to shoulder, one that they can't fully step in and fill the United States
ample shoes right away, but one that they will necessarily have to do because they believe that's in their best and Ukraine's best security
interests.
ANDERSON: I just want to get your thoughts on this minerals deal with the U.S. We are hearing that Ukraine has signed a memorandum on that deal. What
impact could that have on negotiations at this point on a peace deal at this point?
ROBERTSON: Yes, it's not clear if this is something, you know, stating Ukraine's intent to sign, which is expected to be next week, to sort of
soften President Trump's view of President Zelenskyy, which is pretty negative at the moment, and therefore keep the U.S. engaged more, wherefore
moving on would look more like supporting Ukraine and putting sanctions on Russia and additional tariffs, that sort of thing.
In that scenario, you know, potentially, there -- this deal can be interpreted as it has been interpreted before as something that gives the
U.S. a vested interest in the economic success and stability of Ukraine and therefore a warning to Russia not to engage in more military activities
inside Ukraine. I think that's a -- that's something obviously that's played on President Zelenskyy's mind.
And the narrative has always been that he kind of wants to know he's got that trade off in hand, that if he signs this minerals deal, then there are
these sort of guarantees that exist. And I think that's where the sort of fancy footwork of where we're at has been. But the deal itself, at its best
value for Ukraine, keeps United States economic interests firmly inside Ukraine and willing to support it in times of stress and strain in the
future.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Nic. Thank you.
Well, one way China is responding to the Trump tariffs is by placing export controls on some rare earth minerals from there.
Ivan Watson takes a closer look at the importance of these rare earths and the potential impact of reduced supply in the United States. Have a look at
this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a computer mall in Hong Kong. It sells everything from security cameras to desktop
computers and phones. And almost all of this technology is made with critically important elements called rare earths.
THOMAS KRUEMMER, EDITOR, RARE EARTH OBSERVER: Everything I can switch on and off would not really work without rare earths.
WATSON (voice-over): Take a smartphone, for example.
Rare earths are part of essential components in a standard iPhone. They're in the microphone, which is this tiny piece here. They're also in the motor
that vibrates the phone when you get a phone call.
[10:20:03]
(Voice-over): And guess which country has cornered the market on rare earths? China. According to the International Energy Agency, China refines
more than 90 percent of the world's rare earths. On April 4th, after the Trump administration began piling tariffs on Chinese goods, Beijing
announced export controls on seven of 17 rare earth materials, saying the measures are needed to safeguard national security and interests and
fulfill international obligations such as nonproliferation.
GRACELIN BASKARAN, DIRECTOR, OFFICIAL MINERALS SECURITY PROGRAM, CSIS: China's export controls on April 4th were retaliation at one of America's
greatest vulnerabilities.
WATSON: Rare earths aren't just used in consumer technology. The Pentagon says around 900 pounds of the stuff are used in the F-35 Lightning II
Stealth fighter. In 2010, the U.S. Government Accountability Office warned Chinese rare earths were being used in Abrams tanks and U.S. Navy ships.
BASKARAN: So we are entirely beholden to China. I mean, they are weaponizing it in a trade war is what is happening, right? So we're using
tariffs. They are using minerals.
WATSON: In this executive order this week, President Trump wrote U.S. dependence on China for rare earths and other critical materials raises the
potential for risks to national security, defense readiness, price stability, and economic prosperity, and resilience.
The U.S. has only one rare earth mine operating in California. Since 2020 the Pentagon invested more than $400 million trying to establish domestic
rare earth supply chains. But experts say it will take years and huge investment for the U.S. to catch up with China's rare earth monopoly. In
the meantime --
JIM KENNEDY, PRESIDENT, THREE CONSULTING: If China literally cuts you off, you got six months of inventory and you just turn the lights out and go
home.
WATSON: Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, on the home front, President Trump is in a standoff with the head of the Federal Reserve. He's been putting major pressure on Jerome
Powell to lower interest rates, even threatening to fire the central bank chief. But Powell has been clear that the Fed will not be swayed by
politics under his stewardship.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME POWELL, U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: We're never going to be influenced by any political pressure. People can say whatever they want.
That's fine. That's not a problem. But we will do what we do strictly without consideration of political or any other extraneous factor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, most experts say the president does not actually have the power to fire the Fed chief over policy differences, but President Trump
appears ready to test legal norms.
Next up, a new development in the case of a Maryland man wrongly deported to El Salvador. Find out what a U.S. senator is saying about his trip to
meet the man and what a judge is saying back in the United States. More on that is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:25:18]
ANDERSON: Well, a U.S. appeals court is warning that the Trump administration risks reducing the rule of law to, quote, "lawlessness," as
a showdown escalates over the case of a Maryland father wrongly deported to El Salvador. Kilmar Abrego Garcia was visited by U.S. Democratic Senator
Chris Van Hollen on Thursday. We expect to get more details of the visit to be released in the coming hours, but Van Hollen, seen here in this image,
says there were challenges before the meeting even began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Our goal was very simple today, which was to check on the health and well-being of Kilmar, but we were stopped by
soldiers at a checkpoint about three kilometers from the CECOT prison. We were told by the soldiers that they'd been ordered not to allow us to
proceed any further than that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Katelyn Polantz is on the story from Washington, and very specifically, I want to understand more about where we are at with this
appeals court ruling and whether the Maryland man who is wrongly detained in El Salvador in a notoriously difficult prison is any closer to returning
to his family in the United States at this point.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Becky, as far as the court is having a record built here, there is nothing that says he is
closer to being returned to the U.S. at this point. What's happened in court is that a trial judge said that he must be facilitated by the U.S. to
be returned to the U.S. He was mistakenly sent to the Salvadoran government to this prison in El Salvador because of the Trump administration's
mistake. He should not have been sent there.
And so it has gone through appeals courts, including up to the Supreme Court, saying, yes, indeed, you can facilitate the return of this man.
There's fighting going on on what that means, how much the U.S. is willing to do. So far, the American government has said that they would send a
plane if El Salvador wants to give him up. But El Salvador does not want to do that. He is a Salvadoran citizen who was not supposed to be sent back to
his home country, according to the U.S. authorities.
Now we are seeing an appeals court saying we are going to let the trial level judge continue to manage this on a day-to-day basis, to continue to
ask for updates on his status, to fact find, to gather evidence, to have witness testimony over what is being done to facilitate his return, and to
continue on asking those questions. What the appeals court said, though, in saying that they were going to continue empowering the judges to do this,
they wrote that there is a bigger issue here where the American presidency, the executive branch, Donald Trump, that they appear to not be following
the rule of law, to be not following the balance of powers, to be not following court orders.
What the judge writes here yesterday, "If today the executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what
assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home? And what assurance
shall there be that the executive will not train its broad discretionary powers upon its political enemies?"
Very big questions being asked by Judge Harvie Wilkinson, a longtime conservative on the bench in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, that this
case is not just about Abrego Garcia, it is about the enforcement of the Constitution and the White House's willingness to follow what the judges
are saying in this case.
ANDERSON: Always good to have you, Katelyn. Thank you.
So U.S. appeals court then warning that the Trump administration risks reducing the rule of law to, quote, "lawlessness."
Well, some of the youngest and most vulnerable children in the U.S. immigration system appear to be the hardest hit by the administration's
aggressive immigration crackdown policies.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez with this report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
EVELYN FLORES, MANAGING PARALEGAL CHILDREN'S PROGRAM, AMICA CENTER FOR IMMIGRANT RIGHTS (through text translation): They had to cross the border
of Mexico and the United States.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This story time starts at the U.S. southern border. It's a tale for children who crossed into the
United States alone and are in government custody.
[10:30:02]
Fulanito, a cartoon cat, is supposed to represent them. The lesson, almost impossible to imagine for a child, how to navigate the U.S. immigration
system alone.
FLORES (through text translation): A very important right that Fulanito has now that he is in the United States is the right to go to immigration
court.
ALVAREZ: Evelyn Flores of the Amica Center for Immigrant Rights gives this presentation to kids in custody weekly. And she's not alone. Legal service
providers serve a critical role for unaccompanied kids, whether preparing for court or getting ready for school. Now, those lessons are taking on
added significance amid concerns that children will be stripped of the very legal services they need.
This image that you share in your storytelling could be all a child has to get through their immigration proceedings.
FLORES: Yes.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): The termination of a federal contract for legal services has left organizations like Amica scrambling, and the thousands of
children they and others serve potentially facing deportation proceedings alone. Without attorneys, advocates say, kids don't stand a chance.
SCOTT BASSETT, MANAGING ATTORNEY, AMICA CENTER FOR IMMIGRANT RIGHTS: The system is just too complicated for a child to succeed alone without an
attorney. To ask a 12-year-old to do that without the support of an adult, much less one trained in the complicated world of immigration law, it's
just not feasible. It can't happen.
ALVAREZ: A child's deportation proceedings start shortly after they cross into the United States, similar to an adult.
WENDY YOUNG, PRESIDENT, KIDS IN NEED OF DEFENSE: I was in a court last summer where a 3-year-old was in proceedings. He played with his toy car in
the aisle of the courtroom until he was called, and then a young woman picked him up and brought him to the front of the courtroom. I knew that
child knew something dramatic was about to happen. He started crying. He was inconsolable at that point.
ALVAREZ: Under U.S. law, immigrants don't have a right to counsel at the government's expense, not even children, leaving them to depend on
volunteer lawyers or NGOs.
YOUNG: Federal support is everything. Without those monies, we would probably see more like 90 percent of these kids going through proceedings
without counsel.
ALVAREZ: In March, the Trump administration cut off federally funded legal services for 26,000 unaccompanied children in the United States, prompting
lawsuits. A federal judge has since ordered the administration to temporarily restore funding, but to date, that hasn't happened. The
uncertainty has led to staff layoffs and disrupted legal services for kids.
As the administration cracks down on immigration, experts argue that taking away attorneys will only hurt efforts to get migrant kids to court.
BASSETT: The dinosaur and the unicorn --
ALVAREZ: OK.
BASSETT: -- are huge, huge hits.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Organizations who work with migrant children often have to get creative to get the kids to open up. Children often color as
they share why they fled their home countries and get acquainted with attorneys.
BASSETT: They get thrown off the walls --
ALVAREZ: Or they play with stress balls. One group in Michigan even has toy court sets for one-on-one legal screenings with kids.
YOUNG: We'll have toddlers running all over the place, and my staff is explaining to them using toys, crayons, chalkboards, what their rights are
in the immigration system. And it's both -- something that's both very poignant, it's very joyful, but there's also a tremendous sense of gravity
to it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, still ahead, CNN speaks with Israeli reservists who are calling for an end to the war in Gaza. More on that is after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:35:55]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you. Your headlines.
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the U.S. will probably drop its efforts to end the war in Ukraine if there are no signs of progress soon.
Rubio spoke in Paris a day after high level talks with European and Ukrainian officials that the State Department called encouraging.
The International Monetary Fund chief says she's not seeing a recession, but joins a slew of economists and business leaders in warning that U.S.
tariffs will weaken the global economy, ahead of a report expected next week. The IMF says uncertainty, increasing costs and volatile markets are
slowing growth.
Well, U.S. senator has met with Maryland father who was wrongly deported to El Salvador due to a clerical error. The Salvadorian president says he will
continue to be detained in the country. The case now the center of a potential showdown between the Trump administration and the U.S. judiciary.
Well, classes are canceled today at Florida State University following a deadly shooting there on Thursday. Police accused 20-year-old student
Phoenix Ikner of opening fire on campus, killing two people and wounding five others. They say he had a gun with him that belonged to his mother, a
sheriff's deputy. Police haven't commented on the motive for the shooting.
CNN's Ivan Rodriguez joining us now from Tallahassee in Florida.
Ivan, what more do we know about the suspect, about the victims, and indeed about the police investigation at this point?
IVAN RODRIGUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, we're beginning to learn a little bit more about who this suspected gunman is. We know that he's a 20-
year-old FSU student. We also know which was the biggest news really coming out of yesterday's press conference, that he is the son of a sheriff's
deputy here in Leon County. His mother has served with the sheriff's department for more than 18 years now.
But happening right this hour, Becky, we're beginning to see students return to campus for the first time since that gunman started shooting at
victims. Right behind me is that student union building. This is the area where that shooting occurred. To my right, though, we have noticed several
lines forming to enter, for example, the student union. To my right, there's an auditorium. The reason for that is a lot of students left their
belongings here in these buildings in that rush and chaos to escape and find safety.
So we've seen a lot of students come back here. Like I said, for the first time, to collect those belongings and the community here, Becky, is just
completely gutted and still in shock over the fact that this happened. For one, the law enforcement community is in shock, but overall, the campus
here, there is a lot of sadness. We've seen vigils placed throughout certain areas here of campus. There's another vigil that's also expected to
happen later this evening.
In terms of the victims, we do know that two people were killed. Not too many details specifically into who they are yet. What we do know about
those two who were killed is that they are adult males, and they are not students here of the university. In terms of those who were wounded, the
five of them who were wounded by the shooter, they are all currently in stable condition, according to the hospital staff. The shooter himself, who
was also shot because he did not comply, law enforcement officials say when he was taken into custody, he is also now in stable condition.
But, Becky, there was just so much happening here in this area. As you can imagine, in this green space behind me, a lot of students were lounging,
going about their day before shots rang out. Across the street there's actually also a Catholic Church, and many went over to that Catholic Church
to seek shelter. We heard from the priest there in that church. He sort of characterized it how, quote, "people were coming with faces of terror, and
it was a fear that I had never seen before." That priest also went on to say one of his biggest worries was having stray bullets come in to his
church as well.
[10:40:00]
So there was just a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear and worry here throughout this campus. And now that's really just transformed into sadness and trauma
now that these students and staff will live with.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, sir. Thank you. You are bang up to date on what is going on there in Tallahassee, in Florida.
On the front lines of Israel's war in Gaza, frustration and dissent surfacing amongst Israeli forces. A growing number of reservists are
publicly condemning the Israeli prime minister's decision to resume fighting in the Gaza Strip.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Doctor Or Goren spent months deploying to Gaza as a combat physician in the Israeli
military, treating and evacuating wounded soldiers. Now, he is part of a growing number of reservists who believe the war is no longer serving its
stated goals, destroying Hamas and returning the hostages.
DR. OR GOREN, IDF RESERVIST AND COMBAT PHYSICIAN: No, I don't believe it anymore. And it's a year and a half. Gaza is demolished. Hundreds, tens of
thousands of people killed. The houses there are destructed, the infrastructure is destructed but Hamas still rules the place, still shoots
rockets. And so where are we heading?
DIAMOND: Goren is one of thousands of reservists who have signed public letters calling on the Israeli government to end the war and strike a
hostage deal. The first letter from air force reservists and retirees quickly spawned others, from reserve combat physicians and paratroopers to
sailors and military intelligence officers, all echoing this message.
"At this time, the war mainly serves political and personal interests and not security interests. The continuation of the war will lead to the death
of abductees, IDF soldiers and innocent civilians, and to the attrition of reservists."
The Israeli military, which heavily depends on reservists to bolster its regular forces, moving swiftly to quash the dissent, firing dozens of
reservists who signed the letters. The Israeli prime minister slamming the signatories as a small group of bad apples, accusing them of refusing to
serve for political reasons.
GOREN: The pilots' letter did not say they will stop serving. There was nothing illegal about it. We are the backbone of this society. How can you
silence us?
DIAMOND: The outrage in Israel is mounting. Seven in 10 Israelis say they want a deal to end the war and get the hostages out, according to Israel's
Channel 12. And now, between rising political opposition and the burden of multiple tours on reservists and their families, as many as 40 percent of
reservists no longer showing up when called to duty.
Even among those who support the war, like Meital Borenstein-Hadari, 18 months of war is taking its toll. Her husband has spent more than 300 days
deployed, forcing her to scale back her speech therapy practice as she raises her four kids.
During this latest fifth deployment, my entire body hurts, she says. For 300 days, he wasn't home and I needed to carry on my small shoulders what
we usually hold together.
But while others say enough is enough, Meital wants Israel to keep fighting.
MEITAL BORENSTEIN-HADARI, WIFE OF A RESERVIST: The limit is when we (speaking in foreign language)
DIAMOND: The limit, she says, is when we win.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:45:42]
ANDERSON: Major showdowns in court between the U.S. government and the world's most powerful tech companies. In a landmark case, a judge ruled on
Thursday that Google violated antitrust laws by establishing a monopoly in online advertising. Now, that decision could force its owner, Alphabet, to
sell part of its ad business, which would radically reduce Google's power over the internet.
Meta also facing a potential breakup. CEO Mark Zuckerberg testified this week in a case that could force him to sell off Instagram and WhatsApp.
That would be a huge deal were that to happen.
Joining us now live from New York, professor of media at Syracuse University and CEO of the Palmer Group, Shelly Palmer.
And look, we saw the tech bros really sort of living it large, investing, throwing money at Donald Trump. We saw them at the inauguration. This
hasn't stopped, though, Donald Trump and the DOJ going after their businesses. What's that all about?
SHELLY PALMER, PROFESSOR, NEWHOUSE SCHOOL, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: This, I think, is what happens when you look to the future through the lens of the
present and try to use the tools from the past to remedy the situation. You've got some lawsuits that are about antitrust and, you know, and
monopolies. And maybe there is, you know, look, the judge can rule in the evidence presented.
Let's assume it's all true. That was then. This is now where, where are we now? We're in the age of A.I., where search engines are going to give way
to answer engines where you actually get an answer, where ads are going to give way to agents because agents don't click on ads. Autonomous agents or
A.I. agents go and do what you ask them to do.
We're in a place where data will be absolutely everything. And so if you don't go after the immense amount of data that the elite data owners, the
elite model owners, the foundational model builders, and the hyperscalers have, then it doesn't matter what you do. Like they can sell off parts of
their business. It's not going to in any way impact the future.
ANDERSON: That's fascinating. So whatever the implications of the Google trial, and it's likely as an organization, Alphabet will fight back. And
these appeals, of course, could take for years. Like you say, these are based on yesteryear, as it were. So what is Google's future at this point,
Shelly?
PALMER: You know, they are one of the most powerful foundational models. Gemini 2.5 Pro, it's stunningly great. They have one of the most amazing
text to video models, VO. They have integrated their tools into the workspace. This is the future of Google. This is the future of Alphabet.
The advertising business is under immense stress. The DOJ is missing the point here. Amazon is where you put in as many search ads as you do in
Google.
You've got retail media where, you know, Walmart.com is actually selling and they're worried about, are you ever going to visit their Web site when
your agent goes and buys from them and compares price with Target, or compares price with Home Depot or some other big retailer? So the future of
Google is incredibly, incredibly unclear from a search and old business perspective, because the technology is changing so quickly.
So this lawsuit, yes, they're going to appeal it. It is going to take years. I'm here to tell you that by the time this thing is figured out, by
the time the rulings are finally done and the appeals are finished, the world we live in will look nothing like this. And no one is even going to
understand what this lawsuit is about. Not by the time it's done.
ANDERSON: And Mark Zuckerberg will know that, of course, as well. The U.S. government has got a beef with Meta over WhatsApp and Instagram. But again,
where is -- what happens with that? But where is Meta headed at this point?
PALMER: So Mark Zuckerberg has a different strategy. They have open source models where they are trying to attract the best developers in the world
with their free access to their Llama models. He is working very hard on what's going to replace cell phones. His Meta Quest glasses, the Ray-Bans
are incredible, and they are at the very cutting edge of what's going to be the next interface that we have with data.
[10:50:05]
So they're definitely concerned about data. Certainly having to sell off Instagram or having to sell off WhatsApp would be financially devastating
right now. But that's a couple of years away. And by the time that happens, what is the future of smartphones? Are we going to be heads down on our
phone, or are we going to be using our glasses? And will their A.I. agents, and will their A.I. models have already answered a different way, or
created a different way for us to interface with data?
Again, they're a hyperscaler and they're an elite model builder. So as a foundational model builder and a hyperscaler, a gigantic tech company, they
have data sets we don't have. And so, yes, it's very hard to look at the future. And nobody in the DOJ understands because most people don't
understand unless you are literally in the hallowed halls of Google, of Alphabet, of Meta, you know, of the largest tech companies, you're not
going to see the way that they are thinking about the future.
But if you are an analyst and you look at where they are, it's very clear they know that the world we live in of ads and phones, the days are
numbered.
ANDERSON: Shelly Palmer knows a lot more than a lot of us, and that is why we put him on the show. It's good to have you, sir. Thank you very much
indeed for joining us.
PALMER: Always a pleasure.
ANDERSON: We began the week on this show with Monday's Blue Origin launch, and despite the growing backlash over it, we want to highlight one member
of that six-person, all-female crew and her incredible journey even before she got there.
Amanda Nguyen, her dream of being an astronaut was derailed after she survived a rape while at university. She transformed personal trauma into a
landmark law on how rape kits are handled and says her fight is not just for herself, but for survivors everywhere. And she reflected on this life-
changing moment after she returned to earth. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA NGUYEN, BLUE ORIGIN ASTRONAUT: I'm so grateful to the thousands of people, the engineers, the scientists, just everyone who has made this a
reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, right here in Abu Dhabi, a new remarkable experience is blurring the lines between art, science and technology. A collaboration
with the Department of Culture and Tourism, teamLab Phenomena Abu Dhabi opens today as a permanent fixture, allowing visitors to immerse themselves
in these transformative artworks. It really puts the term experience into experiential.
Let me tell you, I was there last night. It is remarkable. This latest cultural landmark here in the Emirate promises the interactive nature
ensures that no two visits are the same.
And as world leaders gather, it's no surprise that the UAE also champions artificial intelligence in the art space. We went to Art Dubai to see how
one artist's work draws on data from things like waves crashing on a beach and solar activity on the sun's surface to create something quite
extraordinary.
[10:55:10]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BREAKFAST, KINETIC ARTIST, ART DUBAI: A.I., we all say the same thing, it's going to change everything. I mean, given how much engineering is in my
pieces, it inevitably is changing just the way that we work. You know, I have a team of 17, many of those people being engineers. Every month
there's something that's making it a little bit faster, a little bit easier, or allowing us to do things that we didn't do before.
I think it will inevitably find its way into almost every aspect of it. As of today, I'm sort of not letting it creep too much into the esthetics of
them, but it's showed up here and there.
I'm using it very different than most other artists, where especially here, you know, most artists are using it to actually generate the look of their
pieces. I'm mainly using it right now in terms of gathering data because data is such a -- I'm pulling in real time data for a lot of my pieces.
So I'm utilizing A.I. to gather data that otherwise I wouldn't be able to get. So "Carbon Wake," which is a new piece that's at the top of the
entrance of the digital fair.
For example, I have a gathering real time data on the carbon emissions of different cities throughout the day determining whether or not they're
using renewable energy or fossil fuels. And it's really kind of data that you wouldn't be able to easily get otherwise for many cities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Fascinating, isn't it?
Well, that is it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
