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The Conclave to Elect a New Pope Begins; India Strikes Pakistan in Wake of Kashmir Massacre. Aired 10-10:15a ET

Aired May 07, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): You are watching the second hour of the show. In this hour, the conclave to elect a new pope starts in the

Vatican and we'll be going live to Rome for you in a few minutes.

We are also now following developments urgent developments in what threatens to erupt into a full-scale conflict between longtime rivals.

Pakistan, vowing to retaliate after India struck what it calls "terrorist targets" deep inside Pakistan.

Pakistan reports 26 people were killed in those strikes, including children and dozens more they say were injured. It calls the Indian strikes a

blatant act of war.

Pakistan's prime minister says the military is authorized to take, quote, "corresponding actions" in the country's self-defense.

Well, India's government calls the strikes an appropriate response to a militant attack last month that killed dozens of people in the Indian

administered part of Kashmir. Here's what the foreign secretary had to say a bit earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIKRAM MISRI, INDIAN FOREIGN SECRETARY: Earlier this morning, as you would be aware, India exercised its right to respond and preempt as well as deter

more such cross-border attacks. These actions were measured, not escalatory, proportionate and responsible.

It was deemed essential that the perpetrators and planners of the 22nd April attack be brought to justice. Despite a fortnight having passed since

the attacks, there has been no demonstrable step from Pakistan to take action against the terrorist infrastructure on its territory or on

territory under its control.

Instead, all it has indulged in are denials and allegations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Let's get further perspective from Delhi. Vedika Sud is back with us.

And what more are we hearing from the Indian government at this point?

VEDIKA SUD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, tensions between India and Pakistan have seen a major escalation after 1 am local time Wednesday here in India.

That's when the government said that those military strikes across the border into Pakistan-administered Kashmir and Pakistan took place.

This is perhaps the deepest India has gone in terms of military strikes into Pakistan in the last five decades. Now the government of India held a

press conference this morning at about 10:30 local time. And they've made it very clear that they had intel, that there could be further strikes on

India.

And because they had given a fortnight to Pakistan to take action against the militants who were behind that heinous attack in Indian-administered

Kashmir on the 22nd of April, where 26 people died, mostly Indians, that was another reason for the strikes that they conducted.

You have a lot of the ministers, government representatives hailing these strikes conducted at about 1 am across the border. They have hailed the

army for this. They've hailed the air force for this.

Now ever since, the international pressure really is building for both countries to de-escalate. You've had the U.S. secretary of state come out

and say that he's hoping that things calm down and he's keeping a close eye on things.

But also, on the other hand, you have the Indian foreign minister and other government representatives reaching out to allies, reaching out to

countries, telling them what really went down in those 25 minutes; nine targets, Becky, in 25 minutes.

And India, the Indian government claims all of them were terror camps, terror camps that have had militants attack India in the past, over the

last two decades, be it the Mumbai attack of 2008, be it the attack in 2016, the attack in 2019 or be it the attack that took place on the 22nd of

April.

And India has also made it very clear that they're ready for any retaliation if Pakistan decides or chooses to strike India in any possible

way. Becky.

ANDERSON: Good to have you. Thank you.

And it's important to get the perspective from Delhi. Last hour I spoke with Pakistan's defense minister. I asked him about India's claim that all

of the sites that it struck were linked to terrorist infrastructure. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KHAWAJA ASIF, MINISTER OF DEFENSE, PAKISTAN: Absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong. There's absolutely no evidence. India would just want to justify

whatever they have done last night and they were taught every -- you know the fitting lesson that therefore they lost five planes. Three of them are

Rafale and American jet.

[10:05:03]

So they -- what they came in to target supposedly terrorist camps or training grounds or training camps.

ANDERSON: You're telling me that you don't know whether these sites were terrorist training?

ASIF: No. There are absolutely no terrorist activities. It's just the imagination, the figment of imagination of India. They just want to justify

it. Whatever they are doing, they find trying to find a justification for that --

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: You've just brought up the fact that India lost some fighter jets.

So let's be quite clear about this. Pakistan claims it shot down five Indian Air Force jets and a drone, as I understand it. India says there's

no evidence of that, no proof.

So can you provide more detail?

Can you provide more detail and is this the response that your army spokesman threatened or is there further action to come?

Let's start with these -- this very specific allegation of five fighter jets shot down.

Where's the evidence for that, sir?

ASIF: It's all over the social media, on Indian social media, not on our social media. The debris of these jets fell into occupied Kashmir and it's

all over here Indian media today --

ANDERSON: You're the defense minister --

ASIF: -- the media --

ANDERSON: -- the reason to talk to you today sir, it's not to talk about content all over social media. I'm sorry. it's not to talk about content

all over social media. I'm asking you very specifically for the evidence for the detail.

For example, was any Chinese equipment used by Pakistan to down these Rafale jets, as I understand you are alleging them to be?

ASIF: No, no Chinese equipment. We have Chinese planes, JF-17 and JF-10 Chinese planes but they are being manufactured, assembled in Pakistan now.

We have very close to Islamabad. We have a facility over there where these planes are manufactured.

And if India can buy planes from France and use them. We can also buy planes from China or Russia or United States or U.K. and use them. And let

me -- let me say one thing, they have already admitted that they three planes were down.

ANDERSON: Can I just repeat the question that I asked?

(CROSSTALK)

ASIF: By --

ANDERSON: I wasn't asking whether Chinese fighter jets were used.

I've just -- was any Chinese equipment used by Pakistan to down these jets that you suggest were targeted?

ASIF: These were down the dogfight. Missiles were fired by our planes and they were shot down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: That is the Pakistan defense minister, speaking to me earlier as this situation develops. And his suggestion to me is that it will. He says

that he is concerned that this is headed to an all-out war.

And we continue to reach out to officials in India for interviews to get their point of view as well. None have been able to join CNN since these

strikes. We will continue to effort that.

We've got CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, live in Islamabad.

So the United Nations and world leaders calling on both India and Pakistan to show restraint amid this latest escalation. We got reaction from the

prime ministers of both Qatar and the U.K. The U.S. calling for restraint. The president of the United States, Donald Trump, calling this a shame.

What can what more can you tell us at this point?

I mean, certainly the defense minister seems to believe that this is headed for further escalation.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And this is what Pakistan has said all along. Before India's attack last night, that if India attacked,

then Pakistan would respond a matter of military doctrine.

And as India has gone perhaps beyond Pakistan's expectations and hit a site that is deeper inside Pakistan than any site India has hit in over 50

years, since that big war the two countries fought in 1971.

So that alone sets up a scenario, where the absolute expectation, that absolute commitment that we've heard from senior security officials, both

inside the military, outside the military, saying that this absolutely de facto would come, it feels as if there's something of a pause in the air at

the moment.

I don't think we should fool ourselves that this pause is going to happen, is going to last and endure.

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But what the prime minister said earlier today about the army having a right to respond, essentially proportionately but avenging the deaths of

women and children, that strong language.

But then when he spoke in parliament, he said Pakistanis should be proud of shooting down what Pakistan says were three Indian Rafale fighter jets.

It's worth noting that Rafale fighter jets have never been shot down in combat before.

So what Pakistan is saying -- and there seems to be some video evidence to support that -- that they've done something that India didn't expect. And

he says that the country should be rightly proud of taking down the pride of India's air force.

But I think it's also worth noting here that one of the sites that was hit, we've heard from the leader of a proscribed terrorist organization, Jaish-

e-Mohammed, they claim responsibility for that attack, killing 40 Indian security forces inside of Indian-controlled Kashmir in 2019.

So just a few years ago. This is an organization that is proscribed by the United States, the U.N., the E.U., the U.K. and by Pakistan. This is a

leader of a group who continues to put forward anti-India messages.

He came out today and said that his location was targeted in this Indian strike and that 10 of his family members had been killed, including

children. So this is emotive in many ways.

Pakistan has denied India's allegations. There are women and children killed. India has struck deeper inside Pakistan than before.

But the language that the prime minister used in parliament wasn't tubthumping, we're going to strike back now. It was tubthumping saying,

we've done well. We should be proud.

Is that the space for diplomacy?

I think it's way too early to guess at that.

ANDERSON: Interesting. It's good to have you, Nic. Thank you.

Well, my next guest is the director of the Southeast Asia program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Milan Vaishnav is joining me

from Washington, D.C.

It's good to have you. Look, I mean, I want to get your analysis of what is this, you know, clear escalation. It's obviously extremely significant.

The question is, what are the consequences at this point?

MILAN VAISHNAV, SENIOR FELLOW AND DIRECTOR, SOUTH ASIA PROGRAM, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Well, I think we have to go back and

ask the question, why did India feel the need to retaliate in this way?

Attacking nine separate targets, not just in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir but also in Pakistan itself.

And I think there are two things for your viewers to keep in mind.

The first is this was in response to a really gruesome, heinous attack on unarmed civilians who were on a tourist visit. This was a, you know, a

slaughter of people that was pretty unprecedented in recent memory.

The second is that India has responded militarily to previous terrorist incidents, which have had their origins in Pakistan. So to a certain

extent, the Modi government, I think, in India, was boxed in. There had to be a military response. The question was at what time and what sequence and

to what effect.

ANDERSON: And very briefly, do you believe that U.S.-Pakistan security cooperation might be at risk here?

I mean, you know, we've had some response with the calls for de-escalation from the U.S.

What's your -- what's your sense?

And on the India file in Washington as well.

VAISHNAV: Well, look, there's no question that there's been a sea change in the U.S.' position in recent years. I mean, India is one of the most

important strategic partners for the United States; whereas Pakistan's importance, especially after the war in Afghanistan has concluded, has

really declined.

So I think everything is on the table. I think American expectation is that Pakistan will retaliate. And then they're hoping at that point both sides

can save face and find an exit ramp.

ANDERSON: Right. It's good to have you, sir. Apologies; I'm going to have to cut this interview shorter than I might have hoped, because we've got to

get to Vatican City. Thank you, sir.

You've been watching CNN's breaking news coverage of the situation in India and Pakistan. We will continue to follow this.

Meantime, we are going to take a quick break and then Erin Burnett is going to pick up from Rome for our special coverage of the conclave in Vatican

City.

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