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Connect the World
Ukraine Strikes Russian Air Bases Ahead of Peace Talks; Eight Injured in Colorado Attack at Event for Israeli Hostages; Hamas: Ready for Indirect Talks on Gaza Truce; Tariff Tensions Reignite Rattling Investors; China: U.S. Provoking Frictions Despite Trade Truce. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 02, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Peace talks between Russia and Ukraine have just resumed in this building in Turkey. These are live
pictures. And this is after Kyiv staged its most ambitious strike on Russian air bases since the war began. It is 04:00 p.m. in Istanbul. It's
05:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Eleni Giokos.
This is "Connect the World". Also coming up on the show, a man suspected of using a makeshift flame thrower on a crowd in Boulder, Colorado will appear
in court today. And deadly chaos near an aid distribution center in Gaza left dozens dead. What we know at this hour.
Right, stock markets in the United States set to open in around 13 minutes from now. And we're firmly into the month of June, and looks like it's a
negative start to this week, DOW down around two tenths of a percent. NASDAQ taking four tenths of a percent hit right now.
It's all about the trade war and the tariffs that are emerging. China hitting back at the United States, saying that it was the U.S. that
violated the trade deal between the two. That's after President Trump, on Friday, accused China of doing so. So, a lot of a blame game playing out in
real time.
But right now, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators are sitting down face to face for peace talks in Istanbul. That meeting coming on the heels of
Ukraine's audacious drone attacks deep inside Russia. Take a look at this footage. Ukrainian drones struck targets as far away as the remote Belaya
Air Base in Eastern Russia.
A source in Ukraine's Domestic Intelligence Agency tells CNN, the operation code named spider web succeeded in hitting more than 40 Russian aircraft.
And Russia has confirmed five bases across the country came under attack. Now this gives you an idea of the reach of the Ukrainian operation.
The Belaya base on the right of this map is closer to Japan than it is to Ukraine. The other targets spread out widely across Russian territory. Now
CNN's Chief International Security Correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh is tracking developments for us from London.
Nick, always good to have you with us. I really want to talk about the operational ability here and what it took for the Ukrainians to pull this
off. Take us through that and then, importantly, the kind of damage we're talking about.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, we only have Ukraine security services word for how this operation
went down. But they describe an exceptionally patient and methodical process in which, over a period, it seems, about 18 months, they assembled
smuggled in.
We don't know how these 117 first person, view attack drones and put them inside mobile, wooden home shelves, using the roof cavity to hide these
particular drones. Then drove the drones on trucks closer to these air bases. You pointed out with air Belaya that's halfway across Siberia.
You can't imagine how far that is away from Ukraine war, and then systematically used each one to attack these strategic long-range bombers,
the Tupolev 95 the kind of Russian equivalent of the B-52 a propeller driven plane. In fact, you can see these planes still on Google Earth map
images that you can access yourself online here.
That's how open Russia was about parking them in these air bases because of how safe they indeed felt. Alenia, you saw there too on the map, up past
the Arctic Circle. So clearly Ukraine here staging a phenomenally sophisticated and audacious attack. And again, coming up with something
which tips the balance here.
You know, Russia is bigger, is more brutal, is able to endure more pain and go for longer than Ukraine in this war, but Ukraine has intermittently used
moments of extraordinary ingenuity, the first to come up with drones, frankly, for use on the front lines, hitting supply lines in 2022 and
causing a major collapse in Russia's positions in northeastern Ukraine, invading Kursk in the summer of last year inside Russia.
Ukraine constantly able to tip the scales here. This is another clear example of that. They say 41 long range bombers were damaged. Well, that
may have an impact in the war fighting capabilities of Russia to inflict terror every night on Ukrainian civilians, frankly, because that's what
half these long-range bombers were about doing.
But most immediately, too, its significantly dense Russian pride, but also maybe has an impact on the calculus inside the Kremlin about how long this
war goes on for if they're going to have to endure occasional heavy surprises like this, Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much for that update. Now I want to delve deep into the story.
[09:05:00]
Jill Dougherty, CNN's Former Moscow Bureau Chief joins us now. Jill and I want to bring this video up for our viewers. These are -- in terms of how
these attacks played out. And you can see the drone emerging from the mobile home. It was smuggled in on then heading to the air base.
The big question of how they pulled this off. And we know they say it's a year in the making, but when you see this, what comes to mind?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, I mean, again, Nick used the word audacious and extraordinary. And I think it really is. I
mean, this is, you know, you have the, let's say, the military, the technical side of this, how they did it over a very long period. And then
you talk about the timing.
Now, I doubt you know a year ago they would be able to know that precisely on this day there would be negotiations in Istanbul. But I think you have
that military side, and then you have the psychological side, because Russia itself has been carrying out massive attacks on Ukraine very
recently.
You know, on the 25th of May, it was the largest attack both with ballistic missiles and with drones in the history of the war. So, the fighting is
intensifying, and part of this psychological side of this is to convince the other side, it's useless to fight. You might as well just give up and,
you know, exceed to the demands of the other side.
And it was interesting to me, I have a Russian friend who was telling me, talking with their family back in Moscow that they literally said, it's not
the war is no longer far away. It is now close to Moscow. And of course, when you look at that map going out all the way almost to China and to
Japan, it's quite astounding.
So, I think that psychological part of this might be important too for average people, and you can see that on social media as well.
GIOKOS: Absolutely. I mean, it's so highly sophisticated infiltrating Russian territory, being able to pull this off without anyone noticing. And
you spoke about the psychological impact and the hit on morale, we understand what the operational damage is, but I wonder how you are
thinking the President Putin would likely respond to this blow.
DOUGHERTY: Well, it could be that he intensifies, which is almost hard to imagine right now, because it's very intense, but he could continue that
constant bombing, both in retaliation and increase his demands. You know, right now, it's not only that, the Russians are insisting on having the
territory that they have claimed but do not physically control.
They are now looking into going into like the Sunni region, parts of Ukraine that they don't control at all, and claiming that. So, there's this
territory side of it too, and negotiations are at the apex, even though I don't think realistically very many people expect much of anything from
what's going to happen in Istanbul, and is happening right now realistically, Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yeah, I mean, it's important these talks are on the go in Istanbul right now, and you've also made it clear that Russia has been increasing
its assault on Ukraine aggressively so. The Ukrainian President had spoken in Turkey, and he actually spoke in Lithuania. I want you to take a listen
to what he said about the escalation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Europe, together with America has better weapons than Russia. We also have stronger tactical solutions.
Our operation Spiderweb yesterday proved that Russia must feel what its losses mean. That is what will push it toward diplomacy.
And when Russia takes losses in this war, it's obvious to everyone that Ukraine is the one holding the line, not just for itself, but for all of
Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: So, Jill, I wonder, are you seeing Ukraine now having a better hand at negotiation, given that Vladimir Putin has been saying, you know, he
wants specific territory, and you know, for the Ukrainian President to make concessions. Does this change the negotiation tactic on the Ukrainian side?
DOUGHERTY: You know, I think it's -- I think, as you hear from Zelenskyy, they feel that they now have a much stronger hand. I'm not going to say the
upper hand, as he would argue, but definitely a much stronger hand, and that might affect the calculus in Russia. I mean, if you have a lot of the
air force, or, you know, significant portion of the air force that was driving the war against Ukraine destroyed.
[09:10:00]
And then you have this again dawning on Russians that the war has come home to them, that could have an effect. It's very hard to say what Putin would
decide to do. And don't forget, you know the demands that the Russians have had right now, today, and going back, actually, years, have remained pretty
much the same, which are maximalist the root causes, which means no Ukraine, no NATO for Ukraine.
A significantly weakened Ukraine military, that wouldn't be very big, all sorts of, you know, demands and territorial demands. So, I think the
Ukraine is feel strong. It's a moment that they're going to use this. But Putin has not been dissuaded so far. That doesn't mean that he won't
change. And it could happen, you know, soon he too is unpredictable.
GIOKOS: Absolutely. Jill Dougherty, great to have you on the story. Thank you so much for your analysis. Moving on the White House says a 45-year-old
man who illegally overstayed his tourist visa has been charged in what's been called a targeted act of terrorism that injured eight people in
Boulder, Colorado. The images from the scene are disturbing.
The suspect, Mohamed Sabry Soliman allegedly used a makeshift flame thrower and threw an incinerator device into the crowd during a weekly gathering of
Jewish community members on Sunday. Officials say he was heard yelling, free Palestine as well as anti-Zionist abuse. One of the victims is a
Holocaust survivor. This witness described what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From my point of view. All of a sudden, I felt the heat like it was a Molotov cocktail equivalent the gas bomb in a glass jar
thrown. Av saw it a big flame as high as a tree, and all I saw was someone on fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: The suspect is expected to appear in court later today, and CNN's Whitney Wild is at the scene in Boulder. A short time ago, she spoke to our
Kate Baldwin, who asked her how the victims are doing.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: What we know right now is very little about the extent of their injuries, but the little we do know,
according to police, is that two people were airlifted to Denver area hospitals. One victim was very seriously injured.
This was a horrifying attack, Kate, as you described, this man holding what were basically spray bottles full of what looked like incendiary material
and then throwing that on to the crowd. And these are not people who run away from their neighbors. They run to them to try to help.
This is a community that will need to lean on one another as they move forward. Here's more on that from the Boulder police chief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF STEVE REDFEARN, BOULDER, COLORADO POLICE: Boulder is not immune to tragedy, sadly, and I know a lot of people are scared right now. A lot of
people are upset and questioning how this happened and why. All I know is Boulder has recovered before, from acts of violence, and we will again
recover.
I urge the community in this time to come together. Now is not the time to be divisive, and we will continue to ensure community safety, along with
all of our partners.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a pedestrian --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD: OK, that that help, that sense of community, will be more important than ever as they try to move forward after this tragedy.
GIOKOS: Well, I want to bring in CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, Charles Ramsey. Charles, good to have you with us. He's been charged. He's
currently under arrest. There's $10 million out for bail for him. Tell me what investigators are going to be focusing on right now and what we know
about the suspect and he's been working alone. What is his wider network?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, you named it. I mean, the number one priority after this happened was to do a deep
dive into this person's background, just to make sure that he acted alone and didn't have any co-conspirators.
So, they're going into social media, executing search warrants at a home, in a vehicle, anything that might belong to him to make sure that he acted
alone. You know, his past, travel habits, all those kinds of things. It appears now that officials are pretty comfortable that he acted alone, that
this was not part of a larger conspiracy, but this was a horrific attack, and one is very unusual in terms of the method that was used.
GIOKOS: Chief, I mean, what one thing that really is concerning is that this march to support Israeli hostages is a regular event. It's a weekend
event.
[09:15:00]
Should there have been more security, given the rise of antisemitism in the United States, and importantly, the assassination of those two Israeli
diplomats not too long ago?
RAMSEY: Well, you know, when you look back on these things in hindsight, then obviously, you know, you think about whether or not there should have
been more security, but because it happened every weekend, these are senior citizens that are part of this. It's been uneventful to date.
And so, you know, the police may or may not have had an eye on it, but I think part of the investigation now would be going back over video from
previous marches to see whether or not he was there to actually scout it out, to actually plan the attack that took place yesterday from observing
what took place in previous weeks.
So, all this will be a matter for investigation and discussion after it's over, but I think law enforcement around the country now has to pay serious
attention to all events, big or small, especially if it involves the Jewish community right now, because there's this dramatic rise and anti-Semitic
types of incidents and violence that has occurred.
GIOKOS: There's a lot of evidence, because there's a lot of video footage, which I'm sure investigators are going to be looking at, but one thing that
witnesses say, is that police took a long time to respond? And you're saying that they're going to be doing a check in to see how long it took.
What was the security on the ground? Where were the lapses that occurred? Would you say that law enforcement, the response was acceptable?
RAMSEY: Well, I don't know the answer to that, but right now, what I can tell you is this, first of all, you're talking about witnesses that have
been traumatized. One minute can seem like 10 minutes. But one thing, when you call the police, everything is recorded in time stamp.
So, we would we'll know exactly what time the call came in, what time the first units arrive, whether it's police or fire, and then you'll know
exactly how long it took for police to arrive. But again, this is all early people are being interviewed, witnesses. They're obviously traumatized.
Nobody's looking at their watch from the time they see the incident, to the time they see the first police car arrive on the scene. So, you know, it's
one of those things that certainly you have to take a look at. But again, you know, police response is dependent on availability of units and their
deployment and all those kinds of things, but we can resolve that pretty quickly just from the information in the computer aided dispatch system
that they use.
GIOKOS: Chief Charles Ramsey, thank you so much for joining us. Great to have you on the show. Right, we're going to a very short break. We'll be
back right after this. Stick with CNN.
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[09:20:00]
GIOKOS: Israel's military denies its troop shot at civilians after deadly attacks in an aid center in Gaza. A warning the video that you are about to
see is graphic. Now the Palestinian Health Ministry says the death toll in Sunday's shooting incident is now at least 31 Palestinians killed and
dozens more injured.
Multiple eyewitnesses tell CNN they were fired upon as they were heading towards the aid site in Rafah ahead of its opening. The Palestinian Health
Ministry and hospital officials say the Israeli military is responsible for the gunfire. I want to bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is live for us in
Tel Aviv. These are very disturbing images. Jeremy, so what do we know so far?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, eyewitnesses on the ground, Palestinian health officials, doctors at these
hospitals, as well as the organization, Doctors Without Borders, are all accusing the Israeli military of being responsible for killing at least 31
people in this pre-dawn attack that seems to have happened on a crowd of thousands of Palestinians who were heading to one of these aid distribution
sites.
Hoping to be among the first in line to receive aid from this distribution site in Gaza, Southern City of Rafah. The Israeli military is denying that
it fired upon civilians, quote, within or near this aid distribution site. But an Israeli military source has acknowledged that the military did fire
what they described as warning shots at a group of Palestinians who were about one kilometer away from this aid distribution site.
And we have now geo located a video from the scene of this attack as the gunfire was going off around individuals at the Al Alam roundabout, which
is located just under one kilometer away from that aid distribution site. And so, the Israeli military seems to be playing quite a semantics game
here, denying, on the one hand, that there was -- that they were involved in a shooting within or near an aid distribution site, while also seemingly
acknowledging that they did open fire at individuals who were at the location of this very same attack.
More than 200 casualties have been reported, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, including 31 people who were killed. This was quite a
hectic scene that had unfolded over the course of a couple of hours, between the hours of 3 and 5 in the morning, according to eyewitnesses.
And we really heard some very, very disturbing stories from individuals who talked about, you know, crouching down on the ground to try and avoid the
bullets. Some people who stood up to try and flee were then shot in the head or in the chest. Other individuals who came to try and rescue the
wounded were shot themselves. And in addition to that, the individuals who were finally able to make it to that aid distribution site, some of them
arrived to find that there was no aid left at that site.
And obviously, we know that this is just one of several very dangerous and deadly incidents that have taken place in the vicinity of these Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation distribution sites, which have raised enormous questions about this model of aid distribution and the potential and very
real dangers that we are seeing Palestinians face as they try and make it to these sites.
GIOKOS: Yeah. I mean, we heard multiple stories, and the United Nations has said that aid is being drip fed into Gaza. We heard from President Emmanuel
Macron that the aid distribution model needs to shift. There's been a lot of criticism. What are humanitarian agencies on the ground saying in terms
of the changes that need to occur to make things more efficient and safer?
DIAMOND: Well, they have been sounding the alarm on this aid distribution mechanism for weeks now, and those concerns have only grown even more as
this aid distribution mechanism has gotten underway over the course of the last week. We have heard from Philippe Lazzarini, the Head of UNRWA, which
was until not long ago, the primary provider of aid in the Gaza Strip.
He said that aid distribution has become a death trap, saying that all of this points to the dangers of this new system. We've also heard from
Medecins Sans Frontieres, Doctors Without Borders, who are saying that this, quote, new system of aid delivery is dehumanizing, dangerous and
severely ineffective.
They say that it is resulting in preventable deaths and injuries of civilians. And these are exactly the kinds of warnings that we were hearing
from humanitarians in the weeks before this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation launched.
[09:25:00]
They pointed out that whereas their traditional humanitarian aid distribution systems would have hundreds of distribution points across the
Gaza Strip, very -- in very close proximity to where people actually live. In this case, what we are seeing is that there are only four active
distribution sites.
Some days there's only one site that's open. For example, yesterday there was only that one site in the Tel al-Sultan neighborhood of Rafah that was
open. And so, you're seeing huge masses of people having to walk for several kilometers, in some cases, through these areas that have been
designated now as dangerous combat zones by the Israeli military, walking through Israeli military positions.
And now, according to eyewitnesses on the ground as they are trying to make their way to this distribution site yesterday, the Israeli military then
opens fire on them. And so, it is simply a very dangerous situation on the ground.
GIOKOS: Yeah.
DIAMOND: And that goes beyond the fact that this humanitarian crisis in Gaza, this hunger crisis in Gaza, still has yet to be alleviated by this
new aid distribution mechanism, Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yeah. Well Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for that update. Right, we have breaking news that is coming into CNN. Russia and Ukraine
have ended their talks for the day, not all that long after they got started. Russian state news agency TASS says talks in Istanbul lasted a
little over an hour.
And our spokesperson for Turkey's Foreign Ministry, his discussions did not end on a negative note. So, news just into CNN, talks between Russia and
Ukraine in Turkey have just ended. They lasted just little over an hour. Bring an update on that story, as it happens.
Meantime, Polish, voters have elected a new president. Nationalist candidate Karol Nawrocki narrowly defeated his liberal opponent in Sunday's
run-off. The 42-year-old is lined with Poland's Right Wing Populist Law and Justice Party, Nawrocki's victory extends the party's 10-year grip on the
presidency.
Now the result could torpedo the centrist government's agenda. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is following developments for us from Berlin. He joins us. Good to
see you, Fred. Nawrocki, his policy in particular, he's going to have a powerful presidential veto. So what impact is that going to have on
domestic politics and the impact on the centrist government?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, first of all, it's going to make life for the centrist government and for Donald
Tusk, the prime minister, a lot more difficult than it already has been. You're absolutely right that the presidency has for a very long time,
already been in the grip of the nationalists.
You had, of course, Andrzej Duda, who was the president for two terms, couldn't run again, and now Karol Nawrocki, who, quite surprisingly, took
this presidential election according to the polls. In the run up to this election, it seemed as though the sort of centrist conservative candidate
Rafal Trzaskowski, seems to be ahead, but in the end, it was Nawrocki that narrowly took the presidential vote.
Now you're absolutely right to point out that the main key thing that he has at his disposal is that presidential veto. Poland is, of course, very
much a parliamentary democracy. The parliament has a lot of say, the prime minister has a lot of say, but the president does have that veto.
And one of the things that Donald Tusk, the centrist prime minister, is trying to do is. First of all, he's trying to reverse some of the policies
that former conservative governments put in place, some of it weakening the constitutional court, for instance, also some of it pertaining to freedom
of the press, also rights for certain groups, like, for instance, the LGBTQ community.
And there, with that presidential veto, it could make life very, very difficult for Donald Tusk, with Karol Nawrocki, then in office. Now, one of
the things that's being talked about in Poland, however, as well, is, though this is also a very big win for U.S. President Donald Trump.
Karol Nawrocki has said that he's very close to President Trump. He sort of sees himself as a MAGA candidate for Poland, if you will. He even had an
oval office visit in the run up to the presidential vote. There is a photo that was used at many of the election campaign events for Karol Nawrocki.
And so, he is going to wield his power accordingly. One thing that the conservatives have said with now this more moderate government that's in
power, is that they obviously want to get power as fast as possible. And they really made this into an election, or other messaging ahead of this
election was one that they believe that Poland was on the wrong track.
However, there are several things where both sides really do see eye to eye. One of them is defense spending. The Polish -- spend a lot on defense,
and both candidates said that they want to do exactly that going forward. Migration is also another thing where both of them really saw eye to eye,
very restrictive migration policy in Poland.
The big thing, and the big difference between the two candidates was and where Nawrocki certainly is going to wield his power considerably, is the
European Union. He's quite negative towards the European Union. Doesn't want Poland to leave the European Union.
[09:30:00]
But the same time, says he does not want Europe to have much of a say in Polish politics. And as far as Ukraine is concerned, the support for
Ukraine is really much more in line with what U.S. President Trump has been saying than, for instance, other European leaders like Friedrich Merz of
Germany or Emmanuel Macron of France, Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right, Fred Pleitgen thank you so much. And still to come, tensions are flaring between the U.S. and China over trade, as the White
House signals a call this week between the Presidents Trump and Xi soon. We'll get into that in just a bit. And of course, the markets in the United
States are set to open. We'll bring you those opening numbers -- just a bit. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back. I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi, and you're watching "Connect the World". These are your headlines this hour. 8 people were
injured in what officials are calling a targeted act of terrorism in Boulder, Colorado. Authorities say a man used a makeshift flame thrower to
attack a Jewish community group at an event for the Israeli hostages in Gaza.
The 45-year-old suspect who authorities say a stayed a tourist visa is in custody and expected to appear in court later today. These talks between
Russia and Ukraine have just wrapped up in Istanbul. They lasted just over an hour, according to Russian state media. The meeting comes after far
reaching Ukrainian drone attacks across Russia.
A Ukrainian source tells CNN more than 40 Russian aircraft were hit. And more details are emerging about Sunday's deadly chaos at an aid
distribution site in Gaza. Officials there say at least 31 Palestinians were fatally shot as they attempted to receive food from the controversial
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.
The Palestinian Health Ministry blames the Israeli military for the shooting. The IDF denies firing on civilians near within that site. All
right, it is 05:34 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi. It's just gone 09:30 a.m. in the United States. Market jitters are being fueled by a rise in trade tensions
between the U.S. and China.
[09:35:00]
A lot of confrontation happening. China now accusing the United States of provoking new economic and trade frictions, and that comes after President
Donald Trump claimed that China violated a trade truce, which gave the two sides 90 days to work out a border deal.
U.S. officials have described those negotiations as stalled. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is facing a legal battle in the U.S. over his authority to impose
tariffs. I want to take a look at how the markets are doing right now. If we get that back up, the DOW JONES is down three tenths of a percent.
The NASDAQ is up around two tenths of a percent, and as you can see S&P 500 flat with a bit of a negative bias. This uncertainty certainly impacting
market sentiment anything to do with tariffs right now, is injecting so much uncertainty across the board that's being reflected in the way that
businesses are pricing in what's to come.
I want to welcome now Martha Gimbel, who is the Executive Director and co- Founder of the Budget Lab at Yale University. She also works in economic policy and research in the U.S. government and the private sector. Joins us
now live from Virginia. Great to see you, Martha. So much happening.
MARTHA GIMBEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE BUDGET LAB AT YALE: Thank you for having me.
GIOKOS: In fact, you can't really keep up with what's going on the trade front. President Trump says on Friday, look, China is violating the trade
agreement. Today we're hearing that China says, no, you actually violated the trade agreement. And this confrontation between two major powers is not
only creating uncertainty, but, you know, it creates market jitters. So how are you describing and how you characterizing our new reality?
GIMBEL: Well, it's sort of indescribable, right? I mean, even leaving aside the China of it all, just in a 24-hour period last week, right? A court
took the tariffs off, then they put the tariffs back on, and then President Trump announced a 50 percent tariffs on steel.
GIOKOS: Yeah.
GIMBEL: So, it's all sort of head swimming, and it's incredibly difficult for anyone to figure out, what they should be doing, how they should be
investing, how they should be hiring. And you're seeing incredibly high levels of uncertainty that businesses and consumers are trying to navigate.
GIOKOS: Yeah, I want to bring to your attention this post on social media by President Donald Trump, and he says, if the court somehow rule against
us on tariffs, which is not expected, that would allow other countries to hold our nation hostage with their anti-American tariffs that they would
use against us.
And this would mean the economic ruination of the United States of America. The Trump Administration says, then, are willing to take it all the way to
the Supreme Court. That's what we're anticipating. But he wants a fight, and he's not going to let up. What does this mean for businesses and this
new and I keep saying this new reality, because I don't even know how to describe this new reality.
GIMBEL: Yeah. I mean, it's sort of indescribable. I mean, I do want to point out that the courts are not saying that no one can ever impose
tariffs. They are saying that Congress needs to pass laws to impose tariffs, and that in this way, and it is not something that the president,
under this particular authority can just do randomly, as he feels.
And so, I want to push back on the narrative that he's trying to say that this means that, you know, the U.S. can never do anything, leaving aside
whether or not it's a good idea. The point here, right, is that there's a reason that this authority is given to Congress. Having the executive just
going back and forth at a whim is not a good idea, and it's making it for an incredibly difficult operating environment.
And I want to point out it's also making an incredibly difficult operating environment for our trading partners. Why would you trade with the United
States right now? We're not reliable. Why would you not be looking elsewhere to figure out where to invest and who to partner with to try to
drive prosperity for your citizens moving forward?
GIOKOS: So, I mean, we know that the tariff issue and trade issue is very much part of the Trump Administration. Do you believe that when the dust
settles, and there is some, you know, plan, wider plan, with the trade scenario for the United States, that it could be net positive for the
United States, and also for the rest of the world when you weigh it up and look a lot longer term.
GIMBEL: Yeah, you know, economists have looked at this for a very long time. My team at the budget lab have looked at this. The impact of tariffs
on the U.S. economy is negative. It slows down the economy. It forces us to invest in unproductive sectors relative to other places that we could be
firing on all cylinders on.
And it's just going to make us poorer and make us less of a player on the international stage. And so, it's really not clear to me what any wins at
all are going to be here.
[09:40:00]
GIOKOS: Martha Gimbel, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for your time. We're going to very short break. We'll be back right after this.
Stick with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back. Now his fellow countryman, Rafael Nadal, was known for and beloved for his sportsmanship, and now Spanish tennis star Carlos
Alcaraz is doing much the same. The defending fringe Open Champion won over the crowd when he conceded a point.
All that drama and charm up next in "World Sport". And I'll be back with more "Connect the World" in 15 minutes. I'll see you then.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
(WORLD SPORT)
[10:00:00]
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