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Trump: "Looking for Better Than a Ceasefire" Between Israel & Iran; Trump Leaves G7 After Telling Tehran Residents to "Evacuate"; Gaza Authorities: Israeli Strikes Kill Dozens Seeking Aid; Experts: Israel Can't Damage Fordow Site Without U.S. Bombs; Could U.S. Mega-Bombs Enter Israel- Iran Conflict. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 17, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, you're looking at the White House where Donald Trump is convening his advisors this morning in
the Situation Room to discuss Washington's next moves in the Israel-Iran conflict. It is 09:00 a.m. in D.C. It is 05:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi from
our Middle East Broadcasting Headquarters.
I'm Becky Anderson. This is "Connect the World". And what is happening in this region is our key focus. As we keep an eye on the stock market in New
York opening in about 30 minutes from now. Stock futures currently edging lower, and oil prices pushing higher, though off their recent highs as the
Mideast conflict continues.
Diplomacy or war, those critical questions presumably under discussion this morning in Washington with Donald Trump scheduled to meet with his key
national security team in the White House Situation Room. The U.S. President leaving the G7 Summit in Canada early and returning to
Washington, he said, to monitor the ongoing conflict between Israel and Iran. He spoke to reporters on Air Force One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What specifically is better than a ceasefire? What are you looking for here?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: An end. A real end, not a ceasefire, an end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, something that would be permanent?
TRUMP: Yeah, or giving up entirely, that's OK too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you closer, is that even possible? Is that a possibility?
TRUMP: Why not? Certainly possible. A complete give up. That's possible, yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: -- attacks, Israel's military says it intercepted 30 Iranian drones fired overnight, and that several missiles were fired towards the
country, some damaged infrastructure, but no injuries reported today. The IDF says it conducted extensive strikes on military targets in Iran,
including missile launches and drone storage sites.
We are covering all angles of this story, and I just want to be very specific her. We're going to be covering President Trump's comments that
are moving this story forward with Stephen Collinson, our Senior Political Reporter in Washington. Then Iran's next moves with CNN's International
Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh in London.
And Nic Robertson, live in Tel Aviv for us, this hour will bring us the very latest statements from the Israeli government as we look to connect
the dots on "Connect the World". Stephen, let's start with you. Trump certainly ramping up his rhetoric when he says a real end to the conflict
is what he's looking for.
Does he mean through military might or diplomacy, is it clear what his mindset is right now, as far as you can tell?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I don't think that Trump actually knows exactly how he wants this to end or how he would get there,
having watched him for a decade or so now, it seems to me, what he is trying to do with his media interactions is to fill the space, be at the
center of this issue, even play for time, to give himself time to work this out.
He is facing one of the most profound decisions of a president in years, if he decides to enter this conflict on behalf of the United States directly.
He will be left with all the ramifications. He will be responsible for what happens afterwards, many years down the road.
Trump, typically, if you look at his policy in trade wars, for example, he likes to up the stakes, but then he often walks back if he decides he's
going to, you know, drop one of those big, 30,000-ton bombs on the Fordow facility. There is no walking back for Trump.
So, this is something that's presidency defining and era defining on the question of going for a solution, an end stage, rather than a ceasefire. I
think this is typical of Trump's desire to be seen as the great deal maker, something that's at the core of his presidency, and something which is
really being shown as rather a flawed theme.
It's exactly what he went for in Ukraine, going straight for an end to the war, a peace deal. It doesn't really work that way in international
relations. You have to take the small steps first. So, I think that's very typical of Trump's approach.
ANDERSON: Right.
[09:05:00]
COLLINSON: How you get from where we are now to suddenly a deal without Iran just capitulating, as he was talking about there is very difficult to
see.
ANDERSON: And let's be quite clear that we are talking about what Donald Trump's next move might be, as he considers that one assumes with his
national security team, because it is clear that whatever happens next in this conflict, what the U.S. decides to do is going to have an enormous
impact.
It is very significant. Nick Paton Walsh, let's bring you in at this point. Donald Trump posting that if Iran wants to talk, quote, they know how to
reach him, saying, again, quote, they should have taken the deal that was on the table. How much pressure is Iran under right now? Let's start there.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think increasing day by day as its inventory of ballistic missiles it can fire
back at Israel to kind of exert some degree of pressure against them, as they begin to dwindle, then I think we see diplomacy potentially become the
easier path for Iran.
Now they can't enter talks with it being clear that their supplies of military stocks are dwindling. They can't enter those talks from a position
of weakness, because that would essentially, after the huge toll done to their military high command over the past five days, look to some degree
like surrender.
So, they are going to have to find a way of constructing some sort of off ramp or deal that retains their agency in this entire process. They're not
simply accepting the terms indeed that they have, but we are potentially, according to some analysts looking at an Iran now that's gone in the last
week or so, from 1500 or so ballistic missiles that could hit Israel to potentially half that now.
And therefore, with a very minimal stock left at hand to enable them to have some kind of deterrent value going forwards. And of course, too,
Becky, important to realize that any talks about a nuclear program that occur now occur over a very different actual state of that nuclear program,
significant damage done to the Natanz facility, which was a key part of their enrichment.
Yes, we don't know, indeed, if for do can be breached, which is where so much it seems, the more secretive part of Iran's nuclear program may be
occurring, penetrable only, it seems, by bunker buster bombs that only the United States has. So yes, a very different type of discussion will now be
occurring.
It's one where Iran sense in the region as being a military power, or maybe one that might one day become a nuclear power, very much damaged in the
past five days or so. And the other question too, Becky really, is exactly why would it be in Israel's interests here to slow down a moment where they
have finally, after decades, it seems, got air superiority in Iran skies.
They've clearly been able to pick out target after target that's of interest to them over the past days. They may have more yet to get through.
They may be beginning to think they've run to the end of their useful list. We don't really know that now, but we do know certainly, as Iran is
emerging from these five days, showing really publicly its weakness and most likely looking for some kind of diplomatic move now that saves face
and possibly also gives it some element of military terror value left, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson, while the targets to date have been very specifically, mostly against military and nuclear infrastructure, we've
seen some against energy infrastructure, which is completely freaking out this part of the region, it has to be said, the Gulf region and, of course,
against the state broadcaster overnight, the targets are mostly military and nuclear at this point.
Israel's Defense Minister, though, has a very sharp warning specifically for the Iranian Supreme Leader himself echoing Netanyahu's comments. There
is a sense, certainly there was, over the weekend, that the supreme leader himself is, or certainly could have been, a target. What are you hearing
there in Tel Aviv?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. I think the political dialog, if you will, that's going on publicly with Israeli
politicians, the leadership, is very clearly indicating that regime change is something that's not even at the back of mind. It's at the forefront of
mind.
And one of the reasons for that, of course, is the difficulty for destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities, and then the lack of trust in any
negotiations going forward. It was interesting yesterday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke about pushing back Iran's path to
essentially nuclear weapons by many years.
[09:10:00]
That sort of seemed to say, OK, we've really done a significant amount, but the rhetoric, as you say, also points towards regime change. Because, why?
Quite simply, if you have a different leadership in place, perhaps they will just only pursue, or only pursue the nuclear technology, for power,
for the sort of civilian use and not military use.
And of course, that's that would be the preferred option for Israel, if he can't destroy the nuclear weapons. Then change the leadership that's in
nuclear weapons, nuclear capabilities, then change leadership is in control. I think that's why that narrative still exists.
And it is interesting that overnight, last night, you know, the IDF has said that there were fewer missiles flown in from Iran, and they said on
that account, that could be in part, because they are destroying some of the launchers and some of the missile capabilities.
And as Nick, was mentioning that the stock powers and munitions in Iran may be going down. But I think you know, if you look at this in a bigger
perspective, the missiles Iran fired last night, it didn't choose to fire them into Tel Aviv, a location that would have had a lot of civilian
casualties.
And this does seem to indicate any sort of difficult balance, tight rope that Iran is walking at the moment, that it is potentially intentionally
here by not firing a lot of missiles, trying to create a space for diplomacy not push President Trump off the deep end, so to speak, if there
were high civilian casualties in Tel Aviv.
So, I think you have to sort of look at the fact that Iran didn't fire missiles. That might have been a calculated choice based on diplomacy and
not based on availability of munitions. But to your point, the language that is being used here by the leadership and talking here about the
Defense Minister Israel Katz.
He is very clear that the leadership in Iran should look to what happened to the leadership in Iraq, two decades ago to see what the outcomes might
be. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISRAEL KATZ, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: I warned the Iranian dictator from continuing to commit war crimes and fire missiles at Israeli citizens. He
should remember what happened to the dictator in the country neighboring Iran, who took this path against the State of Israel.
We will continue today as well, to operate against regime targets and military targets in Tehran, as we did against the propaganda and incitement
broadcasting authority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: So, you know, it's on one hand, the analogy is very simple. You could be held accountable for war crimes as Saddam Hussein was in Iraq in
2003 and he was tried in a court and then hung after that. But I think there's a is the other part of the message here, that it was the United
States that helped overthrow Saddam Hussein, help construct the courtroom, and I sat there and watch his trial, help construct the courtroom.
And the judges that bought the case against him and put him in prison and found him in the first place and put him in prison, is the implication of
what the defense minister saying there, that the similarities here will be the U.S. will be involved in a much more granular level.
I'm not sure that's the case, but it's not what he said, per se. It's how it's perceived at the other end in Iran.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson, thank you. Nick Paton Walsh, appreciate it. Thank you, Stephen. Final word with you, if you will, anyone who tells you that
they know what is likely to happen next is frankly deluded. The next steps here sit with a very few stakeholders it seems.
One of those is Donald Trump, and there are two competing factions for Donald Trump here at the moment, the hawks in favor of military
intervention and the America First MAGA camp, and he is taking heat from both sides as he considers his or America's next move with his national
security team. Just explain what's going on here.
COLLINSON: Yeah, Donald Trump is being told by everyone, what he should do. It's not just the MAGA crowd who are very in touch with his political base.
You have the remnants of the Republican Party's old neoconservative wing, people like Senator Lindsey Graham who want kinetic, U.S. action.
You have other world leaders, the Europeans, for example, at the G7 summit that Trump left, you saw him lash out this morning at Emmanuel Macron, a
French President who seemed to be interpreting what Trump wants to do. This is not something that Trump enjoys. Having his personal options narrowed in
public.
The opposition from the Make America Great Again media, which has really split that world is so fascinating. They're drawing analogies, as Nic was
there, to the Iraq conflict. They're pointing out that that began with shock and awe success, as perhaps the Israeli war is here.
[09:15:00]
But it then degenerated into this slog that caused great bloodshed and pain for a generation of young Americans, that dark legacy of Iraq is absolutely
key to Donald Trump's two election wins, this idea that, you know, America is not going to get thrown into these foreign wars.
I don't think among those people who are influential with Trump, this idea that this is a unique, discrete situation where the U.S. has a chance to do
something in Iran that is different than back in the you know, the war on - - really cuts. It's seen as the U.S. throwing itself into another Middle Eastern war with very uncertain consequences that could reverberate for
years.
Trump, historically has been loath to go against his political base. He's not really used the political capital with that group that he's built up in
many ways. So, this is really fascinating, watching him address sentiments which are absolutely key to his political appeal and his movement, and
trying to balance them with the wider national security questions that every president has to face, because presidents get the decisions that
other people can't make, because often there are no real good outcomes.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Stephen, it is a busy, complicated and frankly extremely worrying time. Your analysis extremely important. You can
find more of that analysis@cnn.com of course. Stephen, thank you. Israel said then it had to act now that Iran was close to building a bomb.
U.S. intelligence has revealed Iran was up to three years away from being able to produce nuclear weapons, contrary to Israel's claim that it would
take less than a year. Zachary Cohen, CNN's National Security Correspondent joining me, live from Washington, D.C. And just walk us through what you
are hearing from U.S. intelligence officials and what the U.S. president Donald Trump himself has said.
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, there appears to be some daylight between what the U.S. intelligence community sees, as far as
how far away Iran is from developing a usable nuclear weapon. And what Israel has said in the aftermath of those most recent airstrikes, which is
justified by saying there is an urgent threat posed by Iran's nuclear weapons program.
And look, we're hearing from our sources that the U.S. intelligence community assess, prior to those Israeli strikes, that Iran was not
actively working towards a nuclear weapon. And what's more is, if they had decided to do so, it would take up to three years before they were able to
develop not only a nuclear bomb, but the delivery system that would be used to launch it toward a target of its choosing.
And so that's a pretty extended timeline, especially when you compare it to the public statements made by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and
other Israeli leaders who have really framed Iran's nuclear program as an urgent threat, and again saying that these strikes were needed to preempt
that coming to fruition.
And look Donald Trump's Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, testified back in March that Iran was not actively working towards a
nuclear weapon, and she said that the U.S. intelligence community could continue to assess that Iran was staying at the levels consistent under the
threshold as dictated by the JCPOA.
But take a listen to what Donald Trump said when he was asked earlier today about Gabbard's testimony from March.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How close do you personally think that they were to getting one, because Tulsi Gabbard --
TRUMP: Very close.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tulsi Gabbard testified in March that the intelligence community said Iran wasn't building a nuclear weapon.
TRUMP: I don't care what she said, I think they were very close to having one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: So, a senior U.S. official also telling me today that Iran is quote, as close as you can get before building a bomb, and they quote, have all
the things you need in order to do so. But again, the proximity and the timeline, is different from the intent on the Iranian side.
And there is -- has not been any formal assessment from the U.S. intelligence community that Iran intends to build a nuclear weapon. Now,
there's obviously been indications and concerns raised by U.S. lawmakers and Donald Trump himself that, that is the path Iran is on.
But look, this all matters, because ultimately, it is hanging over this broader question of whether or not the U.S. will engage in direct military
conflict or will engage in direct military conflict against Iran as part of this ongoing Israeli operation. That's something that Donald Trump has
continued to try to toe the line on in his public comments, though hinting and Truth Social posts last night that the U.S. is could be moving closer
to engaging directly with Israel in an offensive capacity.
Look, Brett McGurk, a Former U.S. Official who has worked in both Republican and Democratic administrations, though, sum it up nicely.
[09:20:00]
He said that the U.S. in order to dismantle the Iranian nuclear program, which is what the U.S. and Israel have said is their ultimate objective, it
would require U.S. military strikes. Take a listen to what McGurk said yesterday on CNN's air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETT MCGURK, FORMER WH COORDINATOR FOR MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA: Israel has tactical advantage here. They have air supremacy. They can hover over
those nuclear facilities render them inoperable, but you really want to dismantle it. It's either a U.S. military strike or a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: So, we know that Donald Trump has repeatedly said that he wants to reach some sort of a deal with Iran over his nuclear program. Obviously,
the tone becoming a little more aggressive here in the last few days, in the aftermath of those Israeli airstrikes. Ultimately, we'll have to wait
and see.
But the question of whether or not the U.S. does engage in direct military operations against Iran is really the big thing to be watching here.
ANDERSON: Yeah, it's good to have you. Zach, thank you. Well, you're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson, from our Middle East
Broadcasting headquarters here in Abu Dhabi. Still to come, another mass killing of Palestinians seeking aid in Gaza.
Israel says details of a deadly incident on Monday are under review. Plus, Ukrainian officials say U.S. citizen is among the casualties from a new
wave of Russian attacks on Kyiv. Taking a very short break, back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: As the world watches Israel and Iran trade deadly strikes and tries to work out what happens next. Palestinians facing ongoing
bombardment and starvation fear that the world has frankly forgotten them. Authorities in Gaza say an Israeli air strike killed at least 51 people and
injured more than 200 others who were waiting for aid trucks in Southern Gaza.
Well CNN's Paula Hancocks is here with me. She's been monitoring what has been going on. What do we know about this incident?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Becky, this is becoming all too tragically familiar, we had Palestinians waiting for aid, and we understand
that at least 51 were killed in an Israeli strike as they were waiting for the aid. Now this is the highest reported death toll of people waiting for
aid since May, when Israel lifted that 11-week blockade on all food, water and aid that they had in place.
It is again a very deadly day for people who are simply trying to find food for their family. We had a journalist working for CNN speaking to some of
the eye witnesses. There was one woman who talked about her eldest son going to try and find flour and food for his siblings.
He was killed in that incident also one man saying that, that Israel is killing us in cold blood as we are trying to find food. Now, we have
obviously asked Israel about what happened.
[09:25:00]
And the IDF says that they identified a group of people that were waiting next to an aid truck that was stuck in Khan Yunis in the southern part of
Gaza, and there was an IDF group operating in the area. They say they are aware of the reports. They're looking into it, and they do everything they
can to try and make sure that they minimize civilian casualties.
But this speaks to what the U.N. has said all along that if you are asking 2.2 million people to go to four specific sites as part of this U.S.-
Israeli backed GHF site, as opposed to giving the aid to the U.N. who can go to people directly who need that aid, then you are going to have these
deadly incidents.
ANDERSON: Just briefly, on a sort of wider basis. Just give us a sense of the overall humanitarian needs at this point.
HANCOCKS: It couldn't get much more desperate at this point. I mean, the U.N. is talking about famine in certain areas. We heard from Volker Turk
today. He's the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, and he said Israel has weaponized food and blocked lifesaving aid.
He's calling for investigations on all these incidents when people waiting for aid are being caught up and many of them being killed, there's simply
not enough aid getting through. It's something we have been saying for 20 months now. It's something the U.N. humanitarian aid groups on the ground
have been saying.
But most of the aid that's getting through is going to this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, the very controversial aid sites that the U.N. and
groups are saying simply isn't working. Not enough is getting through. More needs to get through to them, so that they can take this aid to where it's
needed.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Paula, thank you. Just hours ago, a new wave of Russian drone and missile attacks on Kyiv killed at least 15 in what is the
deadliest strike on the Ukrainian capital in almost a year, according to officials there. Well, the city's mayor fears the death toll may rise. 62-
year-old, U.S. citizen was among the casualties.
At least 124 other people were injured across several districts. So, this is some of the damage from the attack on multi story apartment buildings,
as well as rescue workers moving through a huge pile of debris and rubble. Well CNN's Clare Sebastian following the story for us, and she joins us
now.
And what more do we know about this attack and the sort of response that you are hearing from both Ukraine and Russia?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, Russia says that it successfully targeted military industrial facilities, though, I think the
pictures that you just showed very much call that claim into question. Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, saying this is pure terrorism, and is
urging, as we've heard him do many times, for the international community to step up and act.
And as you say, the U.N. human rights monitoring mission in Ukraine is saying this is the deadliest attack on the capital, specifically on Kyiv,
in almost a year. 15 is the death toll as of now. And look even in the pattern of very clear escalation that we've seen from Russia, especially in
terms of this air war.
This attack does stand out, number one, because of its scale, 440 drones, according to the air force that is up there, close to the daily record, and
combined with 32 missiles, makes this a really ferocious attack. The tactics used also interesting.
A spokesperson for the air force saying that while Russia usually mixes in decoy drones, sort of cheaper copies of the Iranian designed Shahed into
these barrages. It used a lot of Shaheds, which of course, are much more destructive in this attack and came in from all sides, really, sort of
surrounding the capital.
So that, I think is striking, and I think less we get caught up in the numbers, we do have graphic, visual evidence from overnight into this
morning of what happens, for example, when a drone hits an apartment block, or with the images that you just showed of the aftermath of when a cruise
missile hits an apartment block, basically, sort of slicing a chunk out of the middle of it.
And I think that really reinforces why air defenses are so critical to Ukraine as these numbers of drones in these overnight barrages go up, and
of course, the split screen that we get is also very important to bear in mind. This attack, while part of a patent investigation, comes as President
Vladimir Putin is attempting to present himself as a peacemaker, to rebound himself, you might say, as a sort of power broker, peacemaker in the
conflict in the Middle East between Iran and Israel.
And it also comes as we hear comments from President Trump, far from announcing new sanctions on Russia as these attacks escalate, saying that
it was a mistake to kick them out of what was then the G8 in 2014. He also left the G7 early, meaning that there was no opportunity to meet with
Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, which would have been another opportunity for him to try to convince Trump to ramp up the pressure on Russia, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yeah, absolutely. Good to have you. Thank you very much indeed. Right, we're about 20 seconds away from the opening on Wall Street today,
the beginning of the U.S. trading day.
[09:30:00]
The opening bell on Wall Street about two rings. Let's just give those involved from virtue financial the opportunity to do exactly that. So that
is the opening bell. It is 09:30 and just short of that on Wall Street, that is New York. This is the beginning of the trading day, and it's worth
noting, futures were slightly lower.
Oil prices were higher. As investors watch what is happening on the Israel and Iran conflict. We're going to take a very short break. Back after this
with the live numbers for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. You're watching "Connect the World". Let's get a check on how the oil markets are faring
and what is the fifth day of conflict between Israel and Iran. And you can see those prices up once again. Friday, of course, we saw a significant
rise on these markets, only to be pared back in the Monday session.
Investors clearly keeping a keen eye on what is going on. And today, expressing through these prices some concern about what might happen next
on these energy markets and supply as we've mentioned, Israeli strikes have done significant damage to Iran's nuclear facility at Natanz, but a second
secret facility buried deep in a mountain has remained effectively untouched.
Iran's Fordow nuclear site is believed to be at least 18 meters underground. Defense experts say Israel does not have the bunker busting
bombs. It would take to reach it, but the United States might. And Israel's Ambassador to the United States says the American government will have to
decide whether it wants to pursue that sort of military operation.
Well as we understand it, Donald Trump, who has left G7 early, is back in Washington and meeting with his national security team in the Situation
Room at the White House. As we speak, my next guest is a Former CENTCOM Commander who has huge experience of this region.
And of course, I'm in the Gulf region, based in Abu Dhabi CENTCOM during Donald Trump's first term, he warns the use of American bunker busters
would have huge consequences. General Joseph Votel, welcome to the program, sir.
[09:35:00]
First, could you explain what type the bombs we're talking about here, sir?
GENERAL JOSEPH VOTEL (RET.), FORMER CENTCOM COMMANDER: Sure, we're talking about what's generally referred to as bunker buster bombs. And what they
really are designed to do is penetrate hardened and deeply buried structures underground. They're able to penetrate through layers of
concrete, Earth or rock.
They're made of kind of special steel casings that allow them to withstand kind of the initial impact they're equipped was, excuse me, with
specialized fuses that allow the munition to penetrate before it actually detonates. So once the munition comes to arrest and the detonation takes
place.
They're guided by GPS systems or laser designation to ensure they're very accurate, and they're massive and heavy, anywhere from 2000 to 30,000
pounds.
ANDERSON: Donald Trump's original red line in any nuclear talks was that Iran must not have a nuclear bomb. That red line changed, of course, over
the past few weeks, to Iran must not have the ability to enrich uranium, where, of course, Fordow comes in. This is all about, that enrichment
facility. Is it even certain that these bunker busters can take out this facility?
VOTEL: Well, the United States has done some testing on these munitions, and I think it feels very, very confident in the capabilities of these
munitions to do what they're designed to do. Of course, you know, conditions at the site really drive what happens here.
But, you know, I would just share that I think there's probably high confidence in the ability of these munitions to, you know, penetrate the
tens and tens of meters that that these facilities are buried underground and cause significant damage to them.
ANDERSON: Ali Vaez is the Director of the Iran Project at the International Crisis Group, part of the ICG. He's a regular guest on this show. In fact,
he's joining me next hour. He argues, and I quote here, to truly assure that the threat is being curtailed, the United States would need either a
presence on the ground or sustained rounds of military strikes carried out with exhaustive knowledge of Iran's nuclear operations.
We are certainly learning that Israel has more intel than perhaps certainly Iran had previously thought. Do you agree? And if you do, is that likely?
Clearly, Donald Trump and his national security team at this point and his military assessing what they will do next. Israel has effectively asked for
support on the sort of bunker busting bombs that we've just been detailing with your experience of the Trump Administration?
One is this likely. And two, I do just then, want to get your sense of what any U.S. involvement in this conflict means for U.S. troops around this
region, and a sort of sense from you as to the significance of involving those troops.
VOTEL: Yeah -- great question, Becky. So, you know, first and foremost, when we conduct airstrikes, it's not uncommon for us to revisit the
locations that we strike and restrike them to ensure that we have achieved the effects. So, the fact that we attack, if we again, supposing we did
drop these munitions on the site at Fordow, it would be very likely that we would revisit that to ensure that, you know, the destruction level was what
we required.
Of course, you know, it would be actually easier to get at once some initial munitions had been dropped, whether we put troops on the ground or
the Israelis do. I mean, certainly we want to get in and get a good assessment of that.
ANDERSON: Right.
VOTEL: There's a variety of ways that that can be done through kind of special intelligence or people on the ground. So, there's a whole variety
of ways that we can do this. You know what I think this means for the United States, if we take this step and we use our aircraft to drop our
bombs on this particular facility.
I think what it does, it makes us a direct combatant in this conflict, and it opens us up to attacks on our troops across the region. Ultimately, the
president has to make the decision on that, and he has to weigh the risks associated of that.
[09:40:00]
We're certainly not incapable of protecting ourselves, as we've already done this, but it would change the nature of our involvement in this
conflict. So far, it's been largely defensive and really on the sidelines, trying to encourage the Iranians to come back to the table.
ANDERSON: Yeah. Good to have you General. Thank you very much indeed for your perspective.
VOTEL: Thank you.
ANDERSON: And more after this.
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MAJED AL-ANSARI, QATARI FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: -- have been making all the possible communication between all the parties regionally and
abroad. These talks between us have been around finding a way out of the rabbit hole when it comes to this escalation.
We are talking here about an escalation that could have ramifications not only on regional security, but on international energy security, and, you
know, security as a whole for the whole world, and therefore we need to work together talk the way out of this.
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ANDERSON: The Qatar Foreign Ministry spokesman 20 Arab and Muslim countries calling for de-escalation between Israel and Iran. Egypt's official news
agency MENA says foreign ministers from countries including Qatar, Oman and Egypt denounced Israel's attacks on Iran in a joint statement.
And we will have a lot more for you next hour. So now we're getting some "World Sports". Stay with us.
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