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Connect the World
Israeli Hospital Extensively Damaged by Iranian Missile; Israel Says it Struck Iran's Nuclear Facility at Arak; Iranian Missile Strikes Tel Aviv Suburb of Ramat Gan; Sources: U.S. Intel Says Iran is not Pursuing a Nuclear Bomb; Russia and China Condemn Israel in Phone Call; European Markets Slide Amid Fears of Mideast Escalation. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 19, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, a live look at Beer Sheva in Southern Israel right now, where an Iranian strike overnight
damaged a hospital. Israel's defense minister pointing to that strike as the reason he has directed the IDF to attack targets that will destabilize
the Iranian regime.
Here's what Katz saying the Supreme Leader, quote, can no longer continue to exist. It's 04:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv. It is 04:30 p.m. in Tehran. It is
05:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi, from our Middle East Programming Headquarters. I'm Becky Anderson, you're watching "Connect the World".
And in a moment, we're going to get you a special report from Tehran CNN, the first Western media organization, to get you inside the TV station hit
by an Israeli strike on Monday. First up though, I want to get you up to speed with the very latest in this conflict.
Destabilizing the Iranian regime, that is the new stated goal of the Israeli Defense Minister after a hospital in Southern Israel was hit by an
Iranian attack. The missile strike caused extensive damage and several dozen minor injuries, patients evacuated.
So far today, the IDF says it is still focusing its strikes on nuclear and military sites, including the Iranian Arak heavy water reactor, a nuclear
facility about 250, kilometers Southwest of Tehran. But now that defense minister Israel Katz has called on the IDF to hit targets that will, in his
words, destabilize the Ayatollah's regime. It is unclear what that means in reality.
CNN's Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen, and Photo Journalist Claudio Otto (ph) are the first Western journalists to enter
Iran since this conflict began. Fred and the team visited the side of Iranians -- Iran's state broadcaster, which was hit by Israeli air strikes
on Monday while broadcasting live. He sent this update from the scene of that strike a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're inside the Iranian state broadcasting company IRIB, which was hit by
an Israeli air strike a couple of days ago, and you can see the damage is absolutely massive. I'm standing in the atrium right now, but if you look
around, this whole area has been completely destroyed, all of the offices, all of the technology that they have inside here, the broadcast technology,
everything has been rendered pretty much useless.
PLEITGEN: All right, so we're going to go inside the building now. They have told us that we need to be very need to be very careful, because
obviously there might still be unexploded parts of bombs in here, or something like that. What we see here is the actual studio where an Iranian
State TV Anchor was sitting and reading the news when the strike hit.
You can see here that is an anchor desk right there. And of course, when it happened, the anchor was reading the news, and then all of a sudden there
was a thud. The studio went black. At the beginning, she got up and left, but then later, apparently came back and finished the news cast and is now
being hailed as a champion of Iranian media.
Some of the main bulk of the explosion must have been here, because this place is absolutely charred. And if we look back over there, that's
actually seems to be the main part of what was the newsroom, with a lot of the desks, computers, printers, phones, you can see how much heat must have
been admitted by the impact and by the explosion.
The phones that they had here are molten here also the keys molten this screen, and there's actually someone's lunch still at their desk standing
here, which probably they would have been wanting to eat until they had to evacuate the building. You can see there's a spoon here that's also been
melted away by this explosion.
All of this is playing very big here in Iran, there's a lot of public anger that the Israelis attacked this site, and certainly the Iranians are saying
that they condemn this and that there is going to be revenge for this. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Let's get you update then onthe latest strikes and counter strikes, as it were. Let's start in Israel on that hospital strike that has
inspired such vitriolic rhetoric from the Israeli Defense Minister. I want to bring in Nic Robinson. He's outside that hospital that was hit in
Southern Israel. Nic, just tell us what you are seeing and hearing there right now.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, the sort of first part of the cleanup recovery effort and making sure the building is
moderately safe seems to have happened Becky, I'll step out of the way so - - can give you a better idea.
[09:05:00]
But you see just how much this building is damaged. And this was on the top of this building that the missile had its direct impact. And the director
told me the fifth floor of the building up there had the patients, cancer patients, urology patients, and he said, until yesterday, there were 25
patients in there, but they moved them to the underground car park area where they've been moving many patients.
What's happening in many hospitals across Israel for that reason, he said the casualty toll was not as bad as it could have been. 40 people with
minor injuries, broken glass, flying glass, but I have to say when you walk around this hospital, there's a lot of damage everywhere you go here.
One of the questions I've been asking the officials that have that have been here, whether it's the foreign minister who was here just a short time
ago, the Speaker in the Knesset, I asked him the same question as well, and the prime minister, I put it to all of them that Iran said that there was a
military facility or another facility nearby, and that's what they were targeting.
Now they all say that's not true. They all point to what they say is the record of casualties and injuries here in Israel, 24 people dead, more than
600 injured. And point to the fact that they're all civilians. What Prime Minister Netanyahu had to say here when I asked him about him wanting to
get President Trump on board militarily supporting Israel, this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think it says everything about Israel and about Iran. Israel is fighting to remove the nuclear and
missile threat aimed at our annihilation. We're targeting military sites. We're targeting nuclear sites. We're targeting missile sites. They're
targeting a hospital.
In this hospital, there are patients who are immobile, they can't even move. Right next to it is a children's ward, a baby's ward, infants. They
target it. They can give this nonsense that they're targeting military sites. What military sites? I know all the military sites in Israel. There
isn't a military site here for miles and miles around. They're targeting civilians because they're a criminal regime. They're the arch terrorists of
the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: So, he went on to say that he believes that the Iranians are stringing President Donald Trump along with the idea of the possibility of
negotiations. It is very clear that the damage, the destruction, the injuries and casualties at this hospital is a political moment here for the
leadership of Israel, who pretty much to a person, been here to make the point that they want to make about Iran.
And really, you can see that this is a message very clearly that they want to be heard in Washington, that they want to be heard in London and all
over Europe. It is very clear that they believe that this is a moment where the international community should come in behind Israel.
ANDERSON: Nic, Israel's Defense Minister has said, and I quote him here, the Prime Minister and I have instructed the IDF to intensify strikes
against strategic targets in Iran and against government sites in Tehran in order to remove the threats facing the state of Israel and destabilize the
Ayatollahs regime.
He's come back since then, in the past couple of hours, even stronger saying Khamenei, can no longer exist. That, of course, is the Supreme
Leader. This certainly feels like a shift in Israeli military narrative and policy, perhaps based on this attack. What's your assessment here?
ROBERTSON: You know, I think the narrative that there's an element of regime change has been running through all of this, particularly in the
last couple of days. You know variously different officials on different days will frame it as well if regime change is a byproduct, then that's OK.
That's good. It's not our main aim, but it is good.
But when you drill down with officials, and I was speaking to some former intelligence officials yesterday. You know the understanding here is that
you may not be able to -- Israel may not be able to remove and destroy all of Iran's nuclear capability. They can knock it back many years. They say
that they're doing that.
But there's a fundamental understanding in the Israeli leadership that as long as the current Iranian leadership is in power, they believe Israel
believes that they cannot have a lasting peace, that they can never get beyond this issue of the nuclear weapon. So, this is an underlying theme.
But your point here is about, has the narrative changed since their strike on this hospital? And I think -- I think the issue of the Iranian
leadership just comes further back up the agenda as they talk about intensifying. It's not clear how they use 50 or 60 fighter aircraft in the
operation last night.
[09:10:00]
On the first night a week ago, they used close to a couple of 100 aircraft. So, you can see there's a possible military scale up there. But the
different, differing target options, again, the prime minister said, we know what we're targeting. Talking about the nuclear sites, missile sites,
we're working our way through them. That's the narrative.
But I think the longer this goes on, the more the perception grows and it builds into the narrative that regime change would be good as well. But for
whatever reason, they're not making that the top issue, and not sort of saying it directly. That's my sense of the situation, and why? Because that
could potentially put off the support that they want to draw in from other countries.
ANDERSON: Nic, it's good to have you. I want to get to the skies over Iran now, the Israeli military says its jets attack the nuclear facility at
Arak, which it says Iran could have used to try to develop nuclear weapons, and Iranian state news agency says no major damage was done.
I want to bring in our International Security Editor, Nick Paton Walsh, joining me now. Nick, this attack was during a series of raids overnight.
We've seen the evidence that at least the ballistic weapons capability still exists in Iran. We've seen the evidence of that where Nick is in Beer
Sheva in Israel.
So, there are still military and nuclear targets, one assumes, for the IDF. From those that you are speaking to in your sources what can we expect next
from Israel in Iran, particularly based on the latest rhetoric from Israeli officials, including the defense minister?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Look, I think the defense minister's comments will raise again, the issue of the
decapitation of the Iranian government. But I should just put in some context there, that even if they did take the extraordinary decision or
have the capability to kill the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
That doesn't suddenly spell an overnight end to the theocratic government of the Ayatollahs there, that he will be replaced, possibly by his son, who
appears to be doing some of the work already. And so, it isn't a dictatorship in which the disappearance of one individual means everything
crumbles. It's not Syria Assad, Syria.
And so, I think it's important to put any move like that within that kind of context. It may well indeed exacerbate, or, speaking to some experts
yesterday, worsen the hardline nature of what Iran seeks. But it's the nature of the targets that Israel is openly talking about striking now that
gives you some idea how far down their target list, they necessarily are hitting the Arak heavy water facility.
That's something which many experts believe was no longer involved in any potential chase of a nuclear weapon. Yes, it could have been involved in
the creation of plutonium, giving another path toward the bomb, but ultimately it seems to have been inactive.
So, the Israelis working through potentially parts of nuclear infrastructure that people accept are not actually a potential imminent,
usable threat right now, potentially removing things that could be a problem down the line, and removing Iran's ability to pursue anything
nuclear for decades.
They appear also, too to have destroyed between a half and about two thirds of Iran's missile launchers. So that takes out of the equation,
potentially, the scale of the volleys that Iran can fire at Israel. What got through last night may have been a new type of device. May have been a
particularly bad night for Israel's air defenses.
Injured at that hospital, certainly too and horrific scenes for the Israeli public to endure, but not a marked change in the sort of lethal casualties
Iran was able to inflict on Israel. So, Iran clearly working with a much- reduced military capability here, and so that puts into question how long, frankly, Tehran can have this conflict go on?
And not potentially experience some kind of existential crisis in its missile inventories, military infrastructure keeps being hit like this in
its political command. Becky, I should point out, in a week since this began, they're now on their third commander of the IRGC ground force of the
Revolutionary Guard Corps. That's the pace in which new leaders are being taken out, unimaginable, frankly, just a month ago.
And so, I think many eyes now look towards tomorrow and Geneva, where the European Union's E3, as they're known, UK, France and Germany, along with
the EU foreign policy chief, a meeting with Iran's foreign minister, Abbas Araghchi. Now that may well be something which is an entire separate
sideline.
I was speaking to one Western diplomat who knows what's going on in those talks, and said that they'd be happening in consultation with the United
States. Indeed, David Lammy, the UK Foreign Secretary, I think, is meeting with Marco Rubio, the U.S. Secretary of State, just today.
[09:15:00]
But describe the talks as something which should be used to kind of feel the room and work out, indeed, what is possible. But I think it's possibly
diplomacy here, however bad the deal Iran has to see to is the give them possibly a chance of slowing the Israeli onslaught, but ultimately, with
Israel having control of the skies over Iran.
And the ability to hit what it wants at will, why would they necessarily stop now? I think the weakness of Iran is in -- is a -- is what's going to
the dynamic that's going to dictate the duration of this.
ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh is our Chief Security Editor out of London for you today. Nick, thank you. Still ahead on this show, will he, or won't he?
President Trump keeping everyone guessing as he weighs his military options regarding Iran? The latest in a live report for you from the White House is
just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, all options remain on the table regarding a U.S. role in Israel's attacks on Iran. That is the White House line as the world awaits
President Trump's decision. Sources say he has reviewed plans for the use of force against buddies, holding off to see if leaders in Tehran agree to
give up their nuclear program.
Sources say Trump's priorities are to avoid prolonging the conflict and to make sure the U.S. doesn't get bogged down in a war. CNN's Alayna Treene is
live for us at the White House. And he's certainly facing pressure from many representing his base. He is also getting whispered to buy these hawks
in Washington.
So just explain what the sort of process is here as we understand it, what's been going on. Ultimately, this is his decision. We've been told
that just where are the influences here, and where do we believe his mind is at, at this point?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, so just to get first, Becky, and I apologize, there's the lawn mower behind me on the North Lawn here at
the White House, but look to get into his mindset here is the president is still weighing this.
Now, I can tell you from my conversations with White House officials that he is much closer now and has grown increasingly warm, as we've reported,
to wanting to potentially involve the U.S. military directly in striking Iranian nuclear facilities. He's still closer than he ever was, however,
that does not mean that he has decided on that.
He made that clear yesterday in the Oval Office, and when I was asking him questions about this, he essentially said, I may do it or I may not. That
is what he told me. Now what I've also been told is that behind closed doors and including in some of those Situation Room meetings, that there
have been discussions that if the U.S. does ultimately decide to engage in a more active role in some of these strikes, how can they do that without
dragging the United States in to a prolonged war?
Because you mentioned, and you're exactly right, Becky, that there is a split among the. president's supporters. You know, there's part of his
party and his base who really believes that they do not want to be dragged into another foreign war.
[09:20:00]
The Ted Cruz's and Lindsey Graham's of the world, who essentially believe that Israel is one of our strongest allies here in the United States, and
that the United States should stand firmly behind them in helping ensure that Iran never obtains a nuclear weapon.
And so, in my conversations with you know these White House officials, they say they recognize both of those arguments, and the president does believe
that decisive strikes in Iran do not necessarily mean that the United States is planning to drag this out into a prolonged war.
And one of the actual analogies and kind of anecdotes I've been hearing be discussed here at the White House is they're looking back to the
president's first term in 2020 when he had ordered a strike on one of Iran's top generals, Qasem Soleimani, and took him out, essentially.
And they argue that that never led it was a decisive strike. It was obviously a very sensitive thing to do at the time. It did not lead to a
broader war with Iran. So, these are all of some of the things that they are weighing now, of course, behind the scenes. But really, you're exactly
right in saying, Becky, that this is the president's decision, and he has to decide whether or not he actually wants to move forward with it.
And I can tell you as well, from some of these conversations, we have seen the president, you know, sour on wanting to handle this diplomatically.
Part of that is because he was hoping he's been kind of sitting back and watching how Iran would respond to the Israeli strikes that happened now
for the first time just about a week ago.
And so far, they have not come to the table, these officials tell me. The Iranians with real concessions and significant, more proactive and
forthcoming kind of ideas for how to move forward on a potential nuclear deal. That is really what the president has been waiting for, to see what
Tehran would bring to the United States.
And that is why he is now, you know, warmer to this idea of wanting to get involved and helping Israel really try and take out all of Iran's nuclear
capabilities. All to say it's still very much unclear what the president is ultimately going to decide. When he was in the Oval Office yesterday, he
said essentially that, you know, he's going to be deciding on this up until the moment that potentially something happens.
If he does potentially say that he wants to order a strike. He said he will make up his mind in the seconds before he does that, everything could be
changing. You know, things escalate very quickly. That is where he is as of now, we do know today, of course, that the president is going to continue
meeting with his national security advisers.
There could be another situation we're meeting today. I'm told here at the White House. We'll be monitoring all of that, Becky, and bringing you the
latest as we get it.
ANDERSON: And they will be monitoring the overnight strikes, of course, one on a hospital in Israel, Israeli strikes on the Iraq nuclear facility in
Iran. I mean, this thing is certainly escalating, or certainly the strikes continue. So that action, I'm sure, will be baked into the decisions they
make.
Thank you for that. Iran then hitting Israel with a new wave of missiles on Thursday morning, that hospital in Southern Israel suffering damage in one
attack, another hit a commercial neighborhood close to Tel Aviv. The suburb of Ramat Gan was struck at about 07:00 a.m. local time.
The blast shredding the facades of buildings and damaged cars. CNN's Jeremy Diamond was on the scene shortly after that strike, and he told me earlier
what he could see.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: You can see behind me. This is the building that was struck by that Iranian ballistic missile. We actually
went into the building. We were able to see the impact site, which was just on the side of this building, right where you can see that the whole facade
here has been torn apart by the power of the blast of this ballistic missile.
And I think we can probably walk into this site as well, and I can show you a little bit the destruction that is all around here. You can see these
vehicles that have been damaged by the power of this blast and debris lying on the road that would be leading to the underground parking lot beneath
this building.
This is also, you know, a busy commercial residential area. The building that was struck has apartment buildings. It also has offices. And here you
can see that there are shops. There's a barber shop right here that was damaged by the blast, a corner store, you know, where people might get
their basic provision.
Oh, my goodness. And, as you can see, still quite a dangerous situation with debris still falling. That man was just struck, actually, by a
falling. I hope he's OK. He was just struck by a falling signage on the side here. So, you know, that's why we're wearing this helmet, the safety
equipment, because we are still seeing windows falling, pieces of metal collapsing as well.
[09:25:00]
As rescue crews continue to work here to not only clean up the debris, but to ensure that it is safe once again, for people to walk here.
ANDERSON: Jeremy, can I ask just, you know, from those you're speaking to? Clearly, this is, you know, a site of extensive damage. What are people
telling you about how they feel. I mean, this is pretty unprecedented stuff for us to see was extremely impressed.
DIAMOND: Yeah.
ANDERSON: Unprecedented for us to see this sort of destruction in Tel Aviv from stripes.
DIAMOND: Absolutely. I mean, people in Tel Aviv have not seen, you know, anything close to this level of destruction since the 1991 Gulf War, when
Scud missiles were fired on Tel Aviv. But already, I think it's pretty clear that a week of Iranian ballistic missiles has already eclipsed the
damage that people saw in 1991.
And we have seen at least two dozen people who have been killed as a result of these missiles as well. And that's why we are seeing Israelis, you know,
treating the situation quite differently to rockets being fired from Hamas or rockets and missiles being fired by Hezbollah, and even the previous two
barrages that we saw of Iranian ballistic missiles last year and then in October as well.
You know, we saw the last few days delivered much smaller barrages of ballistic missiles. We didn't see any casualties or fatalities for the
three previous days. And then today, we have seen now four different impact sites as a result of those Iranian ballistic missiles.
And once again, a wakeup calls to people that this certainly is not over, and that even as the Iranian ballistic missile capacity has been degraded,
it certainly has not been destroyed altogether, and the Iranians today showing that they very much are still able to strike at Central Israel,
including right here on the outskirts of Tel Aviv.
ANDERSON: Well, that was Jeremy Diamond speaking to me earlier on day seven. And this conflict not only continues, as you can see, but the
strikes and the rhetoric both sides suggesting a worrying escalation. Now I want to draw your attention to a CNN report on our digital platform right
now.
Anxiety grips Gulf states, Gulf Arab states over everything from fears of reprisal attacks to the threat of radioactive contamination if nuclear
facilities are badly damaged. It quotes an Egyptian resident of the region quote, everyone is stressed out, and it's becoming very real.
She said, the situation is not something to be taken lightly, and war feels nearby. And the analysts that I'm speaking to say there is cause for
concern, should the conflict escalate even further. Listen to Hasan Alhasan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN ALHASAN, SENIOR FELLOW FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY AT IISS: There are multiple risks here, including a potential nuclear contamination if the
reactor of Bushehr were to be targeted, the potential for oil spills if Iran's energy infrastructure along the Gulf Coast were to be struck by
Israel, and that would obviously have negative repercussions on the Gulf States water security, power generation and so on.
But I think if we take a broader view, and if you look at the potential end points of this conflict, I don't think anyone wants to see Iran slide into
chaos. And I think that there is a broader desire and preference to deal with one bad actor, rather than multiple bad actors in a country that is
large, that has -- that could be fractured and divided along ethnic lines.
And that has a considerable stockpile of missiles, UAVs and chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear stockpiles that essentially could fall
out of central state control. This is a nightmare scenario.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: -- Hasan Alhasan speaking to me earlier, and that is a really important perspective. And we're going to have a lot more on regional and
global diplomatic efforts to try to avoid that nightmare scenario, next hour on "Connect the World". We're going to look at the realities of
nuclear proliferation in the Middle East that is coming up, and how the U.S. President appears to be contradicting his own national intelligence
agency, that is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:00]
ANDERSON: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been sounding the alarm about Iran getting a nuclear bomb for decades.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: By next spring, at most, by next summer, at current enrichment rates, they will have finished the medium enrichment and move on to the
final stage. From there, it's only a few months, possibly a few weeks before they get enough enriched uranium for the first bomb.
The foremost sponsor of global terrorism, could be weeks away from having enough enriched uranium for an entire arsenal of nuclear weapons. That
would place a militant Islamic terror regime week away from having the fissile material for an entire arsenal of nuclear bombs. If not stopped,
Iran could produce a nuclear weapon in a very short time. It could be a year. It could be within a few months, less than a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that saber-rattling has long been echoed by the Iran hawks in the United States. The world now holding on to see what the U.S.
President does next. And Donald Trump has long repeated his position on the matter. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Iran can't have a nuclear weapon, too much devastation, and they do so --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Mr. Trump said Wednesday, he thought Iran is a few weeks and I'm quoting him here from having a weapon. But here's the thing. U.S.
intelligence doesn't believe Iran is pursuing a bomb at this time, according to four sources familiar with the current assessment.
Iran is also a signatory to the United Nations nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, or the NPT, though they have threatened to withdraw in the past
several days after coming under attack by the Israelis, that treaty is the cornerstone of global atomic diplomacy. Israel never signed on, and
although Israeli leaders have never publicly admitted it, Israel is widely believed to possess nuclear weapons, and it has never denied it.
Monitoring groups estimate the country has around 90 warheads. In a declassified memo to U.S. President Richard Nixon in 1969 then Secretary of
State, Henry Kissinger said that when Israel bought the U.S. phantom aircraft. It committed not to be the first to introduce nuclear weapons
into the near east.
The memo went on to say quote, but it was clear from the discussion with the Israelis that they interpreted that to mean they could possess nuclear
weapons as long as they did not test, deploy or make them public. Daryl Kimball is the Executive Director of the Arms Control Association.
He joins us now live from Washington, D.C., and I just want to pursue this. What more do we know about Israel's nuclear program, and how much does the
U.S. or other countries know about it?
[09:35:00]
DARYL G. KIMBALL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ARMS CONTROL ASSOCIATION: Well, this is one of the most open secrets in international affairs, Middle East
affairs, that Israel, since the late 1960s has had a small but deadly arsenal of nuclear weapons.
As you say, independent analysts have published reports we have that they have about 100 nuclear weapons, and they have a secret, not so secret
facility, the Dimona complex in Southern Israel, where Israel has produced plutonium for its nuclear arsenal. There was a report by the Associated
Press based on satellite intelligence just four years ago that Israel was improving the Dimona complex.
So you know, we need to acknowledge here that a nuclear armed country, Israel, that is not a party to the NPT, has undertaken an attack without a
direct provocation from Iran on a non-nuclear weapon state that is a member of the NPT, while Iran was prepared to negotiate with the United States on
the next round, the sixth round of negotiations on a new deal to block its pathways to the bomb, and from the Iranian perspective, get some sanctions
relief.
ANDERSON: Right.
KIMBALL: So those are the realities behind the situation, and it's important, I think, for everyone to acknowledge the power gradient in the
region.
ANDERSON: Israel said that this was a preemptive strike, of course, to avoid Iran getting nuclear weapons itself, which it says it was only months
away from doing. What do you make of that assessment?
KIMBALL: Well, Iran's program has been extraordinarily worrisome. They have the capability to produce to further enrich the 60 percent uranium they
have to bomb grade within three or four weeks to have about 10 to 12 bombs worth of highly enriched bomb grade uranium.
But that is not an arsenal. It would take them at least several months further to make a crude device, and probably much longer to put together a
light enough, small enough warhead to be delivered in one of the ballistic missiles. So, this there was no imminent threat of an Iranian program to
weaponize its nuclear assets before Israel strikes.
That was the assessment, as you just reported, from the U.S. intelligence community, Israel has not presented any new evidence. So, under
international law, an attack by Israel on Iran, under those circumstances, is not a preemptive attack.
ANDERSON: Yeah.
KIMBALL: It is a preventive one, and it is illegal under the UN Charter,
ANDERSON: These sites have been bombed, and there is great anxiety in the Gulf region, very close, of course, to Iran, as Israel continues to bomb
Iranian facilities. In a new CNN digital piece, we reported that in Oman, for example, users on messaging app circulated advice on what to do in the
event of a nuclear incident.
And in Bahrain shelters being prepared for emergencies, sirens were tested nationwide. There is a real fear here of a risk of miscalculation and a
widening of this conflict, what the actual risks of bombing these nuclear sites, sir?
KIMBALL: Well, it is illegal to bomb nuclear power reactors, nuclear facilities, for the very reason that you mentioned that you could have a
release of radioactive material, if the reactor is operating, you could have a criticality event that could lead to a meltdown. Now, Israel has
been striking uranium enrichment facilities.
Facilities that manufacture the centrifuge machines for uranium enrichment. Just last night, they bombed the Arak heavy water reactor, which did not
have any nuclear fuel in it, but the Bushehr reactor, which is in southwestern Iran, is an operating reactor. If that is struck, that could
create much more hazardous situation.
So, these are the concerns that people should have in the region. But I think the other thing that's important to note is that if the United States
does become involved and does help Israel with this attack, with the B2 bomber strikes with the heavy weapons on the underground Fordow enrichment
facility.
[09:40:00]
That is, I think, going to unleash an Iranian retaliation that could lead to missile strikes on U.S. military and civilian targets in the region
other Gulf states, it could lead to a shutdown of the Straits of Hormuz, where the oil goes. So, it would be a massive widening of the war.
And I think those effects of the wider war would exceed any possible radioactive release from one of these Iranian nuclear facilities.
ANDERSON: It's good to have your perspective, sir. Thank you.
KIMBALL: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Well, Israel does continue to push the United States to join its aerial campaign against Iran to curb Tehran's nuclear activities. Joining
me now to explain why is CNN's Brian Todd in Washington. And Brian, experts say the U.S. is the only country with the weapon to destroy Iran's nuclear
facilities.
It's called the bunker buster bomb. I'm sure our viewers and those consuming CNN online will have heard of this by now. Just tell us more
about it, if you will.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, it is a very intimidating weapon. Interestingly, it has never been used in combat, at least not in public
record. One of the reasons for that, according to an expert who I spoke with, was that the U.S. has never encountered a target that required a bomb
this size.
This bomb is called, officially, the GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It is also known as Becky, mentioned as the bunker buster. It is the largest
non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. military arsenal. The Israelis do not have these bombs, and they do not have the means to deliver these bombs.
The dimensions of the bomb are as follows. It weighs 30,000 pounds. It has 6000 pounds of high explosives, and the bomb is about 20 feet long. Now the
only plane that can deliver the bunker buster is the B2 spirit stealth bomber capable of flying about 6000 nautical miles without refueling.
It drops the bomb, and then the bunker buster has the capability, as you saw in that graphic there, of going about 200 feet underground. Experts say
possibly more. It is designed to hit deeply buried and fortified targets. Now, as mentioned in your interview previously, Becky, the likely target of
the bunker buster, again, if the U.S. was to get involved in this conflict, would be the Fordow nuclear enrichment site, which is buried deep inside a
mountain south of Tehran.
Its halls and tunnels and enrichment capabilities are beneath possibly 300 feet of rock. Now, experts say it is not clear if the bunker buster can
reach those depths, because, as I just mentioned, the bunker buster can go about 200 feet underground, according to experts, possibly a little more.
Now, if they were to use this and the armaments and the enrichment capabilities at Fordow are 300 feet underground. They might, according to
experts, have to drop more than one bunker buster bomb they would hit. They would drop one and then drop another one into its crater to get down
further and strike what they need to strike.
We have to say, also Becky that all of this is predicated on two major things, one, if the U.S. gets involved in this conflict, and also, we don't
know if the U.S. has actually made the decision to use this bomb if they do get involved in the conflict. But if both of those things come to pass, it
could indeed be a very ominous development, because, as we said, there is no public record of this bomb ever being used in combat.
ANDERSON: Brian Todd, in the house for you. Brian, thank you. Well ahead on "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson, President Putin and President
Xi speak on the Israel-Iran conflict. Their words, their response is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson. Russia and China condemned Israel's actions against Iran during a
phone call. Xi Jinping has called on, quote, major powers to de-escalate the conflict, seen as a thinly veiled message to President Trump.
During the call, Putin, once again, offered to mediate today marks the 100 days since Ukraine accepted a U.S. peace proposal for a ceasefire with
Russia. Ukraine says Russia is still refusing the proposal. Putin has said he is ready to meet for final stage of negotiations, though.
Well, across this story from London is CNN's Clare Sebastian, and let's just deal with the Iran-Israel stuff, because I think it's important to
sort of provide some context here. For some time now, the U.S., Washington certainly has had a real concern about a sort of thriving Iran, Russia,
China access, certainly since the outbreak of the Ukraine war back in 2022.
And I think we should consider that certainly should inform any conversations or discussions we have about this. What more do we know about
that phone call between Xi and Putin?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Becky, I think we do need to see this in the context of that growing partnership. And on the one hand, I
think this call does represent the sort of hardening of those geopolitical lines, right? Russia and China in this call, collectively condemning
Israel, as both countries have done before.
They both have significant economic interests, and, in Russia's case, a strategic partnership with Iran. And we see certainly from China, according
to the readouts of this call that the Chinese leader called on, quote, major powers to help de-escalate the Iran conflict, a not very well
disguised reference, I think, to the United States there.
So certainly, on the side of China, I think this is a sort of full-throated condemnation. They are the biggest buyer, for example, of Iranian oil, so
they stand to lose a great deal from this chaotic situation. I think on the Russian side, though, things are a lot more nuanced here, because while
Russia does have this strategic partnership with Iran that was signed in January.
We've seen since this conflict started, that Putin has been somewhat playing that down. He said on Wednesday, look, this doesn't contain a sort
of a defense cooperation clause, and it doesn't certainly contain any kind of mutual defense pact. Part of that, of course, might be related to the
embarrassment of this having happened to a strategic ally.
But I think what we're seeing here is Putin really trying to straddle both sides of this conflict. He is, while speaking to China and condemning
Israel, has spoken to the Iranian leader. He has also spoken to Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, and trying to keep the lines of communication open
there.
I think, at least in part, to preserve the sort of slightly faltering reset with the United States, which, of course, is Israel's most important
backer. So, this is a sort of a position that Russia is trying to cultivate here, that it sort of sits in the middle of this conflict as a regional
power broker.
And for the moment, I think Putin is calculating that is more important than its partnership with Iran.
ANDERSON: It's fascinating, isn't it? He has also said that if President Donald Trump had been in the White House, the war with Ukraine would not
have happened. Phrasing that sounds somewhat familiar. Let's just discuss that.
SEBASTIAN: So yeah, look, it's not the first time that we've seen him sort of echo rhetoric that we've come -- that has been coming from President
Trump. And again, I think this is part of Russia's effort, even as it rejects the U.S. proposed ceasefire in Ukraine. It's now 100 days, as the
Ukrainian Foreign Minister pointed out today, since Ukraine signed on to that this Russian effort to try to balance its rejection of that peace
process with its desire for a reset with the U.S.
And its desire, essentially to take a seat at the international table on a level with the United States. So, I think that is all part of that picture.
President Putin really sorts of sending a signal to President Trump, as we don't have any dates yet in the diary for any more meetings between the two
sides that they are still on board for that, Becky.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Clare, thank you. Clare Sebastian is in London for you. And we are going to take a very quick break. I'm Becky
Anderson in our Middle East programming headquarters here in Abu Dhabi.
[09:50:00]
More reaction to the regional conflict after this short break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: U.S. markets closed today for the National Juneteenth holiday. But here's a look at how things are moving in Europe, amid the risk of a
wider war in the Middle East, you've got the European markets down by between a third and one and a quarter percent, give or take.
CNN's Anna Stewart, tracking developments from London. No real surprise these European markets are lower. No real surprise that the oil price is
higher and continues to rise. We've got Brent around 78 now, bucks on the barrel, WTI crude at 74. Let's just remind ourselves why it is that we are
seeing this price rise on oil.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're seeing some price rises here because of the potential for disruption for oil supplies, both when we're
looking at Iran, but also if you're looking at a sort of bigger global picture. This is, of course, a very strategic area.
Iran has threatened in the past to close off the Strait of Hormuz, which we talked about yesterday, that narrow body of water where a quarter of the
world's oil transit. So, there are huge risks here for investors, and investors are trying to weigh up at this stage. You know what the latest
from the conflict means, whether the U.S. will intervene?
What could that mean for the conflict and for oil supplies? And so, we're seeing a lot of volatility, and oil prices are higher again today. In terms
of equities, you said, you know, third day of losses for European stock markets. The U.S. is closed today, again, even with equities, investors
trying to work out what all this means.
And it's really complicating the picture, actually, for central banks as well as investors today, Becky, we've had a flurry of activity from central
banks here in the UK and Norway and Switzerland. Here in the UK, they held rates sticky inflation. You know, not only add the uncertainty around this
conflict of what it means for oil prices, but also the uncertainty of a U.S. trade policy to the picture.
But actually, in Norway and Switzerland, they have cut by a quarter of a percent, and in Switzerland, completely different story. They are looking
at deflation right now. Interest rates are at 0 percent and that's because, with all of the uncertainty we are seeing this year, investors are pouring
to safe havens like the Swiss Franc, therefore they're actually seeing a deflationary issue.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and keep an eye on gold, of course, because that's always a hedge against volatility.
[09:55:00]
What I do want to talk to you about very briefly is the fact that even though these oil prices are high, when you consider the risk profile that
would be Israel bombing Iran, you would have to assume that you know, over the years, as you and I have watched these markets and watch the sort of
volatility that, that sort of risk profile is huge, and many people are asking themselves why it is that these prices haven't gone higher?
Let me just give you some context here. I'm sure you know this, for our viewers sake. On October the sixth, 2023, oil prices were around 82.5
dollars on the barrel for Brent, and that is higher just before, obviously the hostilities in Gaza with Israel -- that's higher than prices, Anna.
Why is it? Do you believe that prices have not shot as high as they might have done, or people might have expected them to?
STEWART: Yeah, people are suddenly questioning why investors are holding their net and actually, oil prices were $80 a barrel just earlier this year
basically, very little. Adding to the context, really, you got to look at what oil supplies are doing. OPEC Plus has been rolling back production
cuts all year, so there is more oil supply going into the markets.
And given the sort of broader economic picture we have, the likes of the IMF actually downgrading growth for the year, potentially meaning there's
going to be too much supply for less demand. So, all of that also plays into the story.
ANDERSON: It's fascinating, isn't it, all right? Well, that's good to have you, Anna. Always a pleasure. Thank you. We'll take a very short break back
with the second hour of the show after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
