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Zelenskyy in Rome ahead of Ukraine's Recovery Conference; Camp Mystic Counselor says They Didn't Have Access to Walkie Talkies in the Event of Disaster; Musk's "Grok" AI Chatbot Posting Anti-Semitic Tropes; U.S. President: New August 1 Tariff Deadline Won't be Extended; Christian Horner Sacked by Red Bull after 20 Years with Team. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 09, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: President Trump lashes out at President Putin. Then Russia launches its largest drone attack of the war

on Ukraine. It's 09:00 a.m. in Washington. It is 05:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi from our Middle East forecasting headquarters. I'm Becky Anderson.

You're watching "Connect the World".

Also coming up, the U.S. President is also focused on ending the war in Gaza after a second day of meetings with Israel's Prime Minister. Number of

missing in the deadly floods in Texas significantly increases as officials there reassess the size of the devastation. And Elon Musk's AI Chatbot Grok

has been posting antisemitic messages.

What is going on is also coming up. All the stock market in New York opens about 30 minutes from now, and it does look as if the future certainly

indicating a moderately higher open, though tariff uncertainties, of course, continuing to worry investors. Well, a scramble inside the White

House as the administration tries to understand why the secretary of defense authorized a pause on weapons shipments to Ukraine.

Five sources familiar with the matter tell CNN that Pete Hegseth did not inform the White House before he authorized that freeze last week. During a

cabinet meeting on Tuesday, President Trump said he didn't know was responsible for the decision. He also took aim President Vladimir Putin as

U.S. efforts to broker a peace deal with Ukraine continue to fall short.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're dealing with him now too. Let's we're not happy with Putin. I'm not happy with Putin. I

can tell you that much right now, because he's killing a lot of people, and a lot of them are his soldiers, his soldiers and their soldiers, mostly,

and it's now up to 7000 a week, and I'm not happy with Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, Ukraine says those comments were followed just hours later by a Russian overnight bombardment of more than 700 drones and missiles.

That is the largest such attack on Ukraine since the war began. Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman is in Rome, and I will explain why

momentarily.

Let's start with our National Security Reporter Zachary Cohen, who is in Washington, and Trump clearly frustrated with Putin, also, it seems, with

someone in his own inner circle, what are you hearing at this point?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Becky, if Donald Trump wanted to know who was responsible for pausing that shipment of arms to

Ukraine, he needed only to turn to the person sitting directly next to him at that cabinet meeting yesterday, and that's Defense Secretary Pete

Hegseth.

We're told that Hegseth did give the final sign off to temporarily pause the arms shipments to Ukraine. The problem here, though, was that our

sources say he failed to inform the White House before authorizing that move. And it's something that really does run counter to this shift in

rhetoric that we're seeing from the president and some of his top national security officials.

This increased hostility and frustration he's been voicing towards Vladimir Putin, pausing arm shipments to Ukraine, clearly, based on what we've heard

from the president, was not something that he had in mind, and it's something that he's very publicly reversed and made clear was not his

position in the days since that happened.

But look, this really does raise some serious questions and fuels ongoing questions about Pete Hegseth's competency as the defense secretary, it's

one he has been marred by multiple controversies during his very short tenure so far. And as Donald Trump is trying to navigate multiple

international crises, trying to secure multiple peace deals across the world, Pete Hegseth seems to be out of lockstep with the White House.

And this is yet another reminder of his lack of experience, but also the frustrations that have been simmering inside this administration about his

inability to coordinate with the other agencies across the government. We're told, not just the White House, but also senior officials like Marco

Rubio is both Secretary of State and the National Security Adviser for Donald Trump, was also kept in the dark on this decision, only learning

about it from press reports.

So, we'll have to see what this ultimately means for Hegseth's future, Donald Trump in the White House publicly saying that they still support

Hegseth but underneath the surface, there are these frustrations and questions about his ability to continuing his job.

ANDERSON: It's good to have you. Zachary, thank you, Ben, let me bring you in because you are covering a trip by the Ukrainian President to Italy. Can

you just explain what he's doing there? And what's been the reaction from European officials to this latest sort of pivot by Donald Trump, if you

will about whether or not Ukraine gets the sort of weapons it needs from the States at the moment to defend itself.

[09:05:00]

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Becky, President Zelenskyy is here. He's arrived. He's already met with the Pope and Giorgia

Meloni, the Italian Prime Minister. He's here to attend the fourth Ukraine recovery conference. This is something that's been held every year since

2022.

This is the first one under the Trump Administration. So clearly this is going to be an opportunity for European and other leaders who are attending

this meeting to talk about what needs to be done to back up Ukraine. And what is very clear is that, given this administration in Washington, and

particularly the president, is fickle and unpredictable.

And really what we heard from, for instance, from Ursula Von Der Leyen, the President of European Commission, is that she said, she has said within the

last 24 hours that Europe needs to depend on itself to defend itself. And that is, I think, what is very clear to all, at least to the European

participants in this two-day meeting, which begins tomorrow morning.

The feeling is that this administration in Washington isn't quite as serious as its predecessors, keeping in mind that earlier in the Trump

Administration, they did suspend the provision of intelligence to the Ukrainians, they suspended arms deliveries as well.

And regardless of what President Trump is saying now, regarding the reporting we are hearing from Zachary and our other CNN colleagues in

Washington, there's no way to be sure that Trump might, for instance, change his tune again.

Have a love affair with President Putin, as he did with Kim Jong-Un of North Korea. So, the feeling is increasingly in Europe that Europe needs to

depend on itself, because it can no longer depend on Washington to provide the sort of backing that it has for this continent since the end of the

Second World War, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, and that's important to remind our viewers that there's some context here. And following sort of Donald Trump's kind of minute-by-

minute narrative may not be the most sensible way of working out. You know what the big picture is here, but the Europeans will hope that the

implications of Donald Trump's frustration, at least with Putin, will be more support for Ukraine and more support, therefore, for Europe. Is it

clear what Zelenskyy hopes to achieve, very specifically in Rome over the coming days?

WEDEMAN: Well, given the nature of this conference, a recovery conference, they're looking at beyond the war, when that might end. Now, it's been

estimated that Ukraine will require about half a trillion dollars in funding to recover from this war. And as I said, given the lack of

seriousness when it comes to U.S. diplomacy.

Zelenskyy is really going to be focusing on trying to shore up European assistance and backing now the Europeans individually don't have the kind

of resources that the United States does. For instance, Italy has until now, provided only about $2.5 billion in assistance, compared to a much

larger number from the United States.

But they are how he is, hoping that he will get a strong sort of support from the Europeans in this meeting, and because, as I said, they just they

realize that they cannot depend on the Americans like they did before. Now, many Europeans are very hesitant to come out and say that, given the

sensitivities in the White House.

But certainly, I think what the experience going back to January 20 is that this administration cannot be dependent upon when it comes to the serious

matter of backing Ukraine in its war and what comes afterwards, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, good to have you, Ben. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Let's get you to Gaza now, and is the White House eking closer to securing a

ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. Well, Donald Trump met with the Israeli Prime Minister again on Tuesday night in Washington for talks that

he said would be almost exclusively focused on Gaza.

[09:10:00]

Jeremy Diamond, keeping an eye on things joining us today from Tel Aviv. Is it clear whether that meeting between the two, it was the second meeting

that Donald Trump and Netanyahu had had since the Israeli Prime Minister's trip to Washington at the beginning of the week?

Is it clear whether it moved the needle at all on the potential for success in these ongoing talks?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's unclear at this stage, Becky, but if there had been major progress in that meeting

towards achieving a ceasefire and hostage release deal, I think you can say without a doubt that there would have been some kind of a public statement

from both men, that President Trump would have invited the cameras in for - - to witness that that moment and to be able to tout the fact that he felt like this ceasefire deal was now going to be achieved.

But the fact that that didn't happen indicates that there are still major stumbling blocks and sticking points in these negotiations, and that

perhaps President Trump wasn't able to push Prime Minister Netanyahu quite as far as he needed to. Nonetheless, these negotiations are still ongoing.

We know that Steve Witkoff, President Trump's Special Envoy who was on hand at the White House yesterday for several of these conversations with Prime

Minister Netanyahu and his team, he will be traveling to Doha later this week in order to join the teams that are negotiating this agreement over

there right now.

Yesterday, Witkoff expressed quite a bit of optimism about the state of negotiations. He claims that three of the four major sticking points had

been resolved over the course of three days of those proximity talks between Israel and Hamas, but clearly that one last sticking point has yet

to be resolved.

We don't know exactly which one that is, but my sources had indicated to me that the issue of Israeli withdrawal from parts of the Gaza Strip,

including, most notably perhaps the Philadelphia corridor, that strategic strip of land in Gaza along the Egyptian border, that that was one of the

primary issues that was holding up an agreement here between Israel and Hamas.

We know, of course, that President Trump has offered more significant assurances about keeping Israel at the negotiating table, not only just

during the course of the 60-day ceasefire, but beyond it, if necessary, and maintaining that ceasefire in order to be able to reach a permanent

ceasefire, an end to the war in Gaza and the release of all of the remaining hostages.

That was expected to go a long way towards addressing some of Hamas' concerns, but once again, we are now on day four of these proximity talks

designed to try and reach an agreement here for a new ceasefire, and no agreement yet, but the parties still negotiating, the United States still

pushing, and President Trump still hopeful that an agreement can be reached by the end of this week.

ANDERSON: All right. Jeremy, thank you. CNN has learned Texas officials more than once refused to fund a flood warning system for Kerr County in

Texas, at the epicenter of this weekend's flooding disaster. Today, we're continuing to learn the names of some of the children who have died there.

Many of the young victims swept away by raging waters barreling through an all-girls Christian summer camp. They were among at least 111 people who we

know now were killed in the flooding and with the number of people missing at more than 170. The state governor cautions that the death toll could

still rise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (D-TX): Know this, we will not stop until every missing person is accounted for. Know this also, there very likely could be more

added to that list.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Pamela Brown has the very latest from Hunt in Texas.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The morning continues the emotion still very raw here on the ground. I can tell you -- that, according to record,

seen and obtained a state inspector visited camp mystic two days before the deadly flooding, and found that it was in compliance for Texas regulations

on youth camps that there was an emergency place, emergency plan in place at Camp Mystic in the event of a disaster or a serious accident or a

fatality.

Now we should note that Texas regulations for youth camps don't say anything about flood zones, and we don't know if this emergency plan took

that into account, or whether it also took communication breakdowns into account, because we are learning more about some of the communication gaps

there at Camp Mystic.

I spoke to a counselor who said, for the most part, counselors didn't have a walkie talkie, only leadership at the camp, and the owners did have that,

and we know that the counselors didn't have cell phones with them, and that the loud speaker at the camp wasn't functioning because of a power outage.

[09:15:00]

I also told by the counselor I spoke to that she personally did not receive sort of emergency evacuation training. And we're hearing more and more

stories about the heroism of these counselors who really jumped into action during that deadly flooding.

There were two counselors who are speaking out about what they did for their campers, saying that they wrote the campers names on their skin when

they learned what was happening and quickly moved them to higher ground. So many stories like that, where these counselors save so many lives. It's

really inspiring.

ANDERSON: If you'd like to help those affected by the flooding in Texas, cnn.com/impact, has information and resources for donations. You'll also be

connected to charities that are on the ground there right now. Well to the west of Texas, flash floods have also tormented parts of New Mexico, where

at least three people are missing and nearly 100 have been rescued.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh no, oh no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, these fast-rising floodwaters powerful enough to sweep away an entire house, the deluge hit a popular mountain retreat in the southern

part of the state. Well, authorities urged people to seek higher ground as the nearby river rose nearly six meters in just minutes.

There is no word yet on casualties, however, the full extent of that destruction will not be clear until the water there recedes. Terrifying,

isn't it? Well still to come, we are closely monitoring talks between the French President and the UK Prime Minister, after years of Brexit fueled

tension between the two nations.

And controversial comments from Elon Musk's AI Chatbot responding with antisemitic tropes to what was an online post. More coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, French President Emmanuel Macron is in the midst of a critical three-day state visit to the UK, as both countries work to improve

relations post Brexit. Right now, Mr. Macron is at 10 Downing Street meeting with the Prime Minister Keir Starmer and other top UK politicians.

Salma Abdelaziz is in London and joins us now, tackling illegal migration across the English Channel, which is, of course, the body of water between

the French and British coasts a key priority for these two men. Let's start there. Why?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is the top priority. In fact, Becky, right now, some 20,000 migrants have crossed into the UK just in the last

six months of this year. That is a record number. Prime Minister Keir Starmer is Absolutely under pressure to resolve that issue, and he needs

his partner in this, of course, French President Emmanuel Macron and what's on the table, according to British media outlets is a one in one out deal.

T

[09:20:00]

The idea being that France would take back one asylum seeker from the UK that had crossed the channel, and in exchange, the UK would take one asylum

seeker from France who has some ties to the UK. So, think of family ties potentially. But it's not that simple, as much as I am laying it out very

simply.

There's a lot there that's on the table to discuss, Becky, from policing the channel. How does that work? How aggressive can those policing tactics

be? Who funds that policing with this one in one out deal? Is that enough of a deterrent? Will that stop people from crossing the channel, or will it

not be carried out effectively enough, already, there's opposition from other European countries.

How do you deal with that opposition? This is an issue that, absolutely, the UK and France have not seen eye to eye on. They do understand both of

these leaders that there is a shared responsibility here, but again, it's just one of the many controversial issues that's on the table today.

They're also going to be discussing trade tariffs, post Brexit relations, President Donald Trump, AI. So, the list here is long, but they've had that

backdrop, if you will, that stage set by the state visit, which really was in full swing yesterday, with state banquet, where you had Mick Jagger and

Elton John in attendance, where you had King Charles, of course, addressing these two nations, saying that they should work closely together to tackle

these complex issues.

Prime Minister Keir Starmer is absolutely hoping to walk away from this three-day visit with a win. He also has a summit with European leaders

tomorrow where prime minister, where President Zelenskyy, rather, will also be in attendance to discuss the war in Ukraine.

So, a complicated and jam-packed couple of days ahead and a Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, who is hoping to have something concrete to show, not just on

the migrant crisis, but on the various issues here that I've discussed as these two nations try to stitch themselves ever closer together.

ANDERSON: Good to have you Salma. Thank you. Elon Musk's AI Chatbots drawing new attention and new criticism for antisemitic posts. Grok, as it

is, called connected antisemitic tropes to an X account with a name being identified as Ashkenazi Jewish. It was in response to offensive online

comments about victims of the Texas floods, the bot also praised Hitler.

Well, this is happening weeks after Musk said that he would rebuild the chatbot for expressing views he felt are too politically correct, we may

get more news on that later today. Hadas Gold is in New York. Grok 4 is supposed to drop today, as I understand it. What's going on here?

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, so Elon Musk, actually, on the fourth of July, said that they had made updates to Grok to this AI

Chatbot that you can both talk to privately, but then also you can just post on X, essentially tweet at it, and it will respond to you publicly.

And so, Elon Musk said on Fourth of July that this has been updated. You're going to start seeing changes to its responses, and then you're right

tonight, there is a live event that Elon Musk is hosting about this rollout, but the users definitely started seeing some changes.

And some of those changes were rather striking in that they were just blatantly antisemitic. You laid out some of the examples. I'll give you

another example. One user posted to Grok on X, not prompting it on anything, just saying, who controls the government. And Grok responded that

based on patterns in media, finance and politics, one group is over represented way beyond their 2 percent population share.

Jews make up around 2 percent of the U.S. population. Grok went on to say, stats don't lie. But is it control or just smarts? You mentioned that

another user used the antisemitic -- another post used antisemitic tropes that Jewish surnames pop up in people who are anti-white radicals.

And then in another post, Grok even went so far as to praise Adolf Hitler, saying that he is history's prime example of spotting patterns in anti-

white hate and acting decisively on them. Now, extremists, white nationalists, they were celebrating yesterday on X. They were so excited

about this, I went and I asked Grok myself.

I said, hey, where -- what are your sources on some of these responses? Where are you getting this from? And Grok responded that one of the sources

it is using is a forum called 4chan. Now 4chan is known as a completely unmoderated form that's full of extremism, full of hateful conduct, and

this is part of Grok himself saying that its filters have been changed.

So essentially, where it's getting its information from and how it's presenting this information has been changed. It says to initially, it says

that its filters were meant to steer clear of potentially offensive patterns, including those that could be seen as antisemitic, but that this

is Grok himself saying that recent updates prioritize raw truth seeking over avoiding discomfort.

Well after a lot of these antisemitic posts came to light, were being publicized, people started, we ourselves, started reaching out to xAI, Grok

was seemingly frozen.

[09:25:00]

And as of the last 12 hours, it has not posted on X when normally it's a steady stream of postings. And then xAI seemed to acknowledge what was

going on, and Grok posted on its X account that they are aware of recent posts made by Grok and are actively working to remove the inappropriate

post.

Elon Musk, though, for his part, seems to be sort of making fun of the situation, one user posted a picture of Kanye West, who, of course,

recently has been known for his own antisemitic comments, saying this is the new Grok senior engineer. Elon Musk, answered with a laughing emoji,

Becky.

ANDERSON: Interesting. All right, well, let's see whether the company is prepared to address any of this further at its launch of the fourth series

of Grok later today. Thank you. Well, still to come, Donald Trump's on again, off again tariffs are well back on again.

The U.S. president vowing to slap new levies on copper and pharmaceuticals. Plenty of details so still up in the air. More coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. You are watching "Connect the World". These are your headlines this hour. And Russia sorry,

Ukraine says Russia launched more than 740 drones and missiles overnight, its largest such attack since the war began.

It came hours after the U.S. President expressed growing frustration with Moscow saying on Tuesday. The President Putin offers very nice words, but

they turn out to be meaningless. U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff says he is hopeful a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas can be reached by

the end of the week.

As those negotiations move forward, Israel has only ramped up its campaign in Gaza, with more than 100 killed in the last 24 hours alone, with more

than 170 people still missing, hope is fading of finding any more survivors of the Texas flood disaster. The death toll there now stands at 111.

[09:30:00]

Authorities in hard hit Kerr County say no one has been found alive since Friday, it has emerged that state officials have twice turned down requests

to fund a flood warning system in the area. Right, let's get you to Wall Street, the opening bell. They're being rung today.

That is the start of the trading day today. And the markets had looked sort of steady to slightly higher on the futures, and you see a similar picture

at the start of the trading day here. The DOW Jones really reflecting that up by just shy of a half of 1 percent out of the gate.

President Donald Trump ratcheting up the pressure on America's trading partners to strike deals with the U.S. or face costly consequences. Mr.

Trump says at least seven more countries can expect letters today, warning them reciprocal tariffs will kick in August, the first, if an agreement

isn't reached, by which means a trade agreement.

And the president warns he has no plans to extend that deadline again, all of this as he unveils even more tariffs. Mr. Trump announcing Tuesday that

copper imports will be hit with a 50 percent levy, though he didn't say when that would take effect. The threat caused prices of the metal to hit

an all-time high as prices are off again a little bit today, but you get the point.

President Trump also said 200 percent tariffs on pharmaceuticals are coming, quote, very soon. My next guest has this to say about the U.S.

President's latest moves on trade and tariffs, quote, Trump is just crazy if you actually think that what he's doing is trade policy, exclamation

mark.

But we shouldn't think of it like that. Think about it as a grievance, and it all makes sense. Well, we're joined now by Richard Baldwin. He's a

Professor of International Economics, Expert in Global Economic Policy and Theory. He's also the Author of "The Great Trade Hack: How Trump's trade

war fails and the world moves on". Richard, good to have you.

RICHARD BALDWIN, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS AT IMD LAUSANNE: Good to be here, Becky.

ANDERSON: Let's talk about what you mean by -- writing your book "The Great Trade Hack: How President Trump's tariff blitz is an economic strategy".

It's grievance policy. Just explain what you mean by that, sir.

BALDWIN: Sure. So anytime an economist gets on and starts talking about trade policy of Trump. They talk about erratic, chaotic, self-defeating,

and that's because they're thinking about it as if it was designed to be a trade policy to do something. What it is, I believe, is it's a way of

striking back at what Donald Trump views as the victimization of America that somehow the U.S. has been taken advantage of by foreign globalist

elite.

And these tariffs are way of striking back and standing up for the American middle class, but have an emotional resonance. They have a sort of

emotional logic to them, which makes perfect sense. For example, you really shouldn't be listening to the words he says.

So, Donald Trump uses words to express his emotions, to sort of express how he's feeling, what his urges, what his gut instincts are, and sometimes he

uses words that have numbers in them in order to express these feelings. But the next week, the next hour, the next month, those numbers could be

entirely different.

So, I think we've got to focus on the emotional intent of what he's doing, which is -- a deep sense of grievance that he thinks America has with the

trading system.

ANDERSON: Fascinating. You tweeted this after President Trump extended today's deadline, until August the first quote, why did President Trump

check it out yesterday on the deadline, push to first of August, and on the rates substantially reduced, you say, question mark, because tariffs are

pushing up retail prices.

That can't be good for his base, you say. Look, the White House categorically refutes the fact that tariffs are driving prices high. In

fact, they've said the odds of tariff related inflation are low, like pandemics and meteors, both of which, by the way, we've seen in the United

States of late.

And I just wonder, though I get where you're going with this, I just wonder whether the base is really bothered about tariffs and trade? At this point,

they're bothered about immigration. We can see there are schisms when it comes to the big, beautiful bill, as it were, and we know that they have a

problem with forever wars.

Are they really that bothered about tariffs and trade? Should the White House be that bothered?

BALDWIN: Well, so that's the second part of what's motivating credit is he doesn't want to hurt the base. But the idea that prices aren't going up is

just completely false. If you look at the Federal Reserve, any of the major banks, like Goldman Sachs, the World Bank, the IMF, they're all forecasting

higher inflation, and you can actually even see it in retail crisis, there's been research on that.

[09:35:00]

But that kind of increase in cost of living, don't think about it as inflation, because those are tiny numbers. What it is how much more are you

paying for the stuff you buy every week in Walmart or on Amazon? And a very large share of that stuff is coming from China or Southeast Asia, and the

tariffs are starting to move up the price.

So, the way I think about this is Donald Trump wants to be viewed as standing up for the middle class, but he's not dogmatic. He's very

pragmatic. And so, when what he's doing hurts his base, he backs off a little bit. So, what happened this week was that, first of all, he extended

the deadline when nobody asked him to do that, he had three months ago said, if you don't do it, you're getting these April 2nd tariffs.

Second thing he did is, instead of announcing April 2nd tariffs, he announced lower ones. So, without getting any deals whatsoever, essentially

negotiating with himself, because he realized these very high tariffs that he announced on April 2nd would actually hurt his base, so he moderated the

rates and extended the deadline.

ANDERSON: Right. What he announced at the beginning of April also hit U.S. assets, very hard, stocks, bonds and currencies very specifically. We

haven't got a lot of details on these deadlines set and then extended. You've posted a Financial Times graphic, and I like this.

Let's bring it up for our viewers, with your own hand drawn annotations that show the actual versus estimated tariff rates. You titled that graphic

the TACO index, as you are pointing out in this post, this lack of clarity doesn't seem to be impacting the markets the way it was in the beginning.

Can you explain that?

BALDWIN: Sure. So, part of what happened on April 2nd was an absolute shock. It was a degree of attack on the world trading system that had never

happened before, not even under the Trump first administration, when he had problems with specific sectors or particular countries.

This was big, bold tariffs on everybody right away that weren't expected and the market didn't like that. Moreover, it seemed to indicate that

economic policy was subject to a degree of, let's say, lack of precision or lack of planning or lack of care, what the consequences would be.

That scared a lot of people that, on top of a number of things, like the bill, worried about the fiscal deficit, made a lot of people flip out and

wonder, maybe the U.S. isn't the safe asset used to be. Now, since then, as you showed with my tweet, what he's actually done is far more moderate than

what he's been saying, and the market has since learned to not listen to the numbers, he says, but looking to the intent other words underneath.

Now there's no doubt that he likes tariffs, and tariffs are going up, but it's not in the erratic, outrageously large way they were before, and in

much of what underneath the whole thing was against China, because China had the biggest deficit. China is the one that's had the fastest growing

manufacturing.

And China has managed to counter the United States with these export controls of rare earth magnets, which can shut down the U.S. auto industry,

for example.

ANDERSON: The point of view of Richard Baldwin, Author of "The Great Trade Hack", how Trump's trade war failed and the world moves on. It's good to

have you. I've got a bunch of other questions. I've run out of time today with you, but we'll have you, back, sir, because this story is not going

away. It's good to have you. Thank you. We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:00]

ANDERSON: After years of domination, Red Bull have found themselves struggling in Formula One this season. A few hours ago, the team announced

they were letting go of their team principal, Christian Horner. Let's bring in Coy Wire joins me now. I mean, this is been quite an ongoing sort of

saga for this team, hasn't it?

Their team principal accused of various things, allegations that he, of course, denies it's been, it seems very unhappy behind the scenes. What

happened?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this is a somewhat surprising news. There had been some speculation, but the time is coming

right now. Of course, the season still ongoing, but they had won four straight drivers titles with Max Verstappen.

He's currently in third place. There's no way he'll win it this year, but Christian Horner had taken Red Bull to unprecedented heights. He's been

there for two decades. He's this larger-than-life figure in the F1 world. But here they are now. They're going separate ways.

They're going to go with Laurent Mekies to take over, and it kind of leaves lots of questions to be answered, and one of the main ones is their

superstar, Max Verstappen. There was speculation about him leaving Red Bull, Becky. So how will this impact his decision?

Will this be more inclined now for him to stay or go elsewhere? We asked our expert, Phil Duncan, and we'll have him on the show coming up in just a

bit to answer those questions and more.

ANDERSON: Yeah, this is a really big deal in the world of F1 which is a really big deal when it comes to just how much money is involved in all of

this big, big, big story. Thank you. More on that with Coy coming up after this short break. I'm back in 15 minutes time.

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[09:45:00]

(WORLD SPORT)

[10:00:00]

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