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U.S. Will Sell Weapons To NATO For NATO To Give To Ukraine; U.S. Senate Working On A Bipartisan Bill Aimed At Ending Ukraine-Russia War; Donald Trump Defends Pam Bondi Amid MAGA Backlash Over DOJ Memo; FEMA Under Scrutiny For Flood Response In Central Texas; 250 Plus Detainees At "Alligator Alcatraz" Have No Criminal Records; U.S. Threatens E.U. And Mexico With 30 Percent Tariffs; Poll: 49 Percent Of Israelis Think Netanyahu Is Driven By Politics; Netanyahu: Engineered Polls Mislead The Public; Excavation To Begin At Former Mother And Baby Home In Irish Town; Gallagher Brothers Reunite For Oasis Reunion Tour. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired July 14, 2025 - 10:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to the second hour of the show from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi.
Well, the time is just after 6:00 p.m. Donald Trump touted a major statement on Russia and its war in Ukraine. This hour, he is meeting with
NATO Secretary General after pledging to supply more weapons to help Ukraine.
Also this hour, Texas' County Commissioners held their first meeting after the floods that left more than hundred people dead in their community. This
as it emerges that FEMA search teams only arrived in Texas several days after the disaster.
Plus, the president forced to defend his attorney general from the wrath of MAGA loyalists. Trump's most ardent supporters had wanted a smoking gun in
the Epstein files, and they are taking out their disappointment on Bondi.
The NATO Secretary General this hour just arriving at the White House as we await Donald Trump's major statement on Russia. President Mark Rutte
sitting down a few days after the president said that the U.S. will sell native defensive -- NATO defensive weapons that NATO can then give to
Ukraine.
Could that offensive be all those offensive weapons be part of what is this touted announcement? We will have to wait and see on that.
Meantime, U.S. Envoy Keith Kellogg is in Ukraine today to talk security, weapons and sanctions. Ukrainians were warned of a missile threat just
after Kellogg's meeting with the president. You see them here back in Washington.
The U.S. said it is working on a bipartisan sanctions bill that one senator calls a sledgehammer that would force Russian President Vladimir Putin to
end the war.
We got CNN's CHIEF International Security Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh standing by back with us this hour, also joined by CNN's Senior White House
reporter, Kevin Liptak.
Nick, let me start with you and these developments. What do you make of what we are hearing? Of course, we are waiting on any significant
announcement from Donald Trump, and I'll get to Kevin momentarily on that.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, I mean, in the broad spectrum of what Trump could announce, and he's got many
options, from exceptionally severe to a slight change in posture, they still mark a significant alteration in where the White House sits over this
war. We've heard him say for the first time in recent days that they are willing to provide arms to Ukraine.
And so, the detail now, of course, explains how far down that road this White House is willing to go. Some suggestions this may be about air
defense systems, the Patriots that only the U.S. can authorize the supply or manufacture of.
We heard from Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy today that Germany has agreed to supply two of those, Norway another one that potentially gets
Ukraine near the 10 that it wants to have. But manufacture issues kick in. How fast can they actually be delivered when Ukraine is being hit every
night by the Russian ballistic missiles that only Patriots can take down, they also need interceptor missiles as well.
Then, of course, there's a possibility that Trump may be looking at giving Ukraine a new capability, some advantage on the battlefield that it hasn't
yet been supplied. That would be a significant departure.
Around all of this too, is where does the money come from. Trump has always been clear that they will not be giving fresh U.S. funding to Ukraine. That
doesn't appear to have changed over the suggestions we had in the last 48 hours that NATO was willing to buy U.S. weapons to give to Ukraine, U.S. is
part of NATO. Essentially, he means European NATO.
But there also might be a moment here where Trump might look at the outstanding money that was authorized by the Biden administration that is
currently untouched, and use some of that.
So, a lot of nuance we have to look at here. Is it new weapons? More of the same? Is it new money, old money from the Biden administration being
authorized for use, and then Becky, we have the separate question about sanctions. They've been suggestions that potentially there could be a 500
percent tariff on countries that buy Russian energy products. There's two real culprits there in the mind of Ukraine, China and India.
Look, China's relationship with the U.S. on trade, very fraught right now. They're essentially asking China to choose between the American economy and
Russian oil. China massively dependent on Russian energy products, enormously so, symbiotic, almost. And India, indeed increasingly reliant as
well.
If either of those two countries find their oil supply disrupted, that could damage the oil price, send that high from the relative low that it's
at now, that will have an impact on the U.S. too.
So, a huge amount moving here in terms of the options for Trump. None of it takes away from the fact, though, that we are seeing a very different U.S.
president right now. You're seeing him now in the Oval Office, and that awful meeting for Ukrainians between their president and Trump that
redefined the American relationship.
[10:05:10]
Well, now it seems Trump wants to find it yet again, and essentially bring the Trump administration back after six months of failed, or you might say
synthetic or fake diplomacy from the Russians back to where Biden was in early January, a remarkable turnaround, but one that essentially shows U.S.
interests lie where they always have been, Becky.
ANDERSON: And Kevin, Nick, alluding to those images that we were showing of Donald Trump and Zelenskyy back in February in the Oval Office. Today, he's
got Mark Rutte there, the bromance that he had with Vladimir Putin seemingly over, seemingly, I say, because we don't know what is going on
behind the scenes.
But there is, certainly, it seems, a flourishing bromance with NATO. And who could have -- who could have predicted that, and any sense at this
point of what we -- of what we might expect from Donald Trump today and what he is touted as this big announcement.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN White House REPORTER: Right. And it does appear as if the centerpiece of the announcement will be this sort of novel plan for the
U.S. to sell weapons to European nations, the Europeans to transfer them on to Ukraine. The president essentially signing off to this plan that would
in some ways insulate himself from some political criticism that he's walking back some of the promises he made as a candidate, to pull the U.S.
back from its conflict in Ukraine, to sort of focus more on domestic matters.
But the president also acknowledging just this weekend that Ukraine very much needs those Patriot missile batteries if it is to defend itself
against Russia. What does appear to be driving all of this, this really kind of remarkable shift in the president's stance towards Ukraine, is his
growing disenchantment with Vladimir Putin.
You've heard him reference it over and over. Remember, just last week, he accused Putin of peddling B.S., essentially saying one thing on the phone
and then turning around and doing something very different, namely, firing these missiles and drones into Ukraine. The president very frustrated,
including behind the scenes, at what he thinks is a leader who is essentially not on the up and up.
Now, that's not going to be a surprise to many European leaders. They've been warning President Trump that President Putin is duplicitous, that he
doesn't mean what he says, but it does appear now to be sinking in with the U.S. president, and he does seem to think that this shift in approach, this
new surge of weapons to Ukraine could potentially turn the tide.
As Nick said, this is essentially reverting back to President Biden's position. Remember, in his final months in office, there was an attempt to
try and deliver as much as possible to Ukraine in the waning days of his administration, acknowledging that a shift in approach would be coming once
Trump came into office, which I do think raises the question of how much effect this is actually going to have on the battlefield.
No amount of American weapons so far has caused Vladimir Putin to change his approach, to change his thinking on this war. President Trump appears
to be making the wager that because he had this relationship with Putin dating back almost 10 years, that this will signal to him that the time is
now to try and bring this war to an end.
So far, Trump has stopped short of saying that he would endorse these new sanctions that are being considered in the Senate. We did hear from the
Republican and the Democrat senators who are proposing those sanctions yesterday saying that they were confident, essentially, that Trump would
essentially go along with that plan, but he has been reluctant because he thinks it would push Putin further away from the negotiating table.
But it does appear as if the president now is coming to the recognition that Putin is nowhere near the negotiating table at this point and that
more needs to be done to try and put pressure on him to bring this conflict to an end.
ANDERSON: And Nick if this is a new surge of weapons through NATO allies, it does feel and just get -- I just want to get your sense of this. It does
feel like it runs counter to the narrative that we got from Trump's vice president, J.D. Vance, from his Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who were so
negative about NATO and with NATO just sort of four or five months ago when it came to Russia and Ukraine. What's your sense?
WALSH: I mean, one of the unexpected things here for Vladimir Putin, who must surely have relished the idea of Donald Trump with his often
unexplained sympathies for the Kremlin point of view coming to the White House.
The unexpected side effects of that has been the Trump trough Trump rhetoric towards Europe has forced Europe to put huge amounts, 800 billion
euros, potentially, into military spending.
[10:10:07]
And so, part of that deal, to some degree, has been the Europeans reaching into their pockets and buying American weapons for Ukraine.
Now, however, you cut that for Donald Trump, that is essentially good business for the United States. That's not American money being wasted on
wars that the MAGA faithful would consider to essentially have been pointless.
And so, I think we have seen an unexpected negative side effect of all of this for Russia, where Europe is very much now having to put its finances
in the game and having to rearm itself.
How fast that is, how effective that is, is really unclear, but it's certainly not the good tidings that many, potentially in Moscow felt Trump
would indeed bring.
What we have to see now moving forward is exactly the extent of the assistance the White House is willing to bring to this. Is it new weapons?
Are we going to see the White House trying to enable the Ukrainians to do deeper strikes inside of Russia, to damage the military industrial complex
that's enabling Russia to stay in the game quite so long?
And indeed, what is going to be the impact, Becky, this is the key real thing here for the weeks ahead. What's the impact going to be of Russia's
summer offensive? We don't know how extensive it is. We don't know where its major front will be, but it's been pretty clear that the delays, the
diplomacy, we've seen the sort of slow walking of negotiations that the Moscow has been behind over the past months. Tapping along Trump in his
terms has potentially been about buying time for this summer move.
How effective they are, how much territory they manage to take, whether they change the narrative at all for Russia is going to be key, because, as
Kevin was saying that we all agree, we're pretty much back to where we were when Biden was in power, with the added side effect that the Europeans are
now putting financing in and realize this is partially their fight, where they may have been content to let Biden pay six months ago.
And at the same time too diplomacy, well, Russia's interest in that has to some degree been exposed as fleeting or if not fake. And now back to where
we were, which is the front line, Becky.
ANDERSON: I think you're making some fascinating points, not least the fact that you really cannot overstate the seismic change in Europe here,
particularly the historic loosening of public spending in Germany, particularly on defense.
I mean, if nothing else has been achieved in the last six months, there has been a real sea change in Europe on its spend. And as you rightly point
out, you know, a U.S. president as transactional as Donald Trump is will see some opportunity in that, as well as some opportunity it seems for
Ukraine.
Good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.
President Trump has been reiterating his support for Attorney General Pam Bondi in trying to quash a furious backlash against her from his MAGA base
over the so called Epstein files. Bondi heads up the Justice Department, the DOJ, which released a memo last week saying that the department has no
evidence that accused pedophile and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was murdered, or that a list of his clients exists.
Trump appeared at the same event as Bondi on Sunday, the FIFA World club -- world club -- Cup final in New Jersey and very publicly, gave her a thumbs
up during the game.
Let's bring in CNN's political commentator and host of iHeart Radio's Off the Cupp, S.E. Cupp, always good to have you. Thank you.
What do you make of this outcry from MAGA supporters? Could it lead to a loyalty test, you think, between the president and the movement he created?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I would urge some caution when it comes to predicting just how big of a break this will -- this will
create.
First of all, nothing is disqualifying. When it comes to MAGA and Trump, nothing is disqualifying. And Trump has proven that again and again, from
criminal convictions to what he did on January 6th to being adjudicated for sexual abuse. Like nothing -- even failing on promises to MAGA has not been
disqualifying for MAGA.
So, I think to assume that you know, not making good on some conspiracy theory is going to be the end of his relationship with MAGA is just not
right.
And you have to remember that about a week or two before Epstein blew up, these very same MAGA influencers were just as mad at Trump over the Iran
strikes. You heard very similar language. This isn't what I voted for, I'm now regretting my vote. They're going to move from beef to beef.
The real question is, what happens when it matters? Which is the midterms and 2028 and I don't think anyone believes that these MAGA influencers or
the die hard, extremely online MAGA voters are going to leave Trump or Republicans anytime soon.
[10:15:15]
ANDERSON: Pam Bondi who repeatedly promised to release Epstein documents, it has to be said, has certainly borne the brunt of the frustration of MAGA
supporters, not Donald Trump himself, although there was some pretty cutting comments to a very defensive Truth Social post that he made over
the weekend, perhaps surprisingly, sort of critical comments from some of his space. But is this Teflon Trump in action as some are describing it?
What's your assessment?
CUPP: Yes, listen, the conspiracy theorist does not want a solution, an ending, an answer. They're not trying to solve a mystery. And that's true
of Epstein. That's true of the moon landing. Pick your conspiracy theory.
The project is not actually to get to the truth, because when presented with evidence, you know, over and over and over again, the conspiracy
theorist still does not believe.
And so, Trump simply coming out and saying, move on. There's nothing to see here. You're basically telling conspiracy theorists the two worst possible
things you can. One is, there's nothing to see after all the conspiracy theories theorizing that we've pushed, there's nothing to see, and you need
to move on. That's not what a conspiracy theorist wants to do.
And there's the added insult to injury that these people were conditioned to believe in this conspiracy theory by the very same people, Dan Bongino,
Kash Patel, Pam, Bondi, Donald Trump, who were fomenting it in the first place.
So, listen, they're going to -- they're in it right now, and they're having to deal with this sort of revolt. But like I said, in 15 months, when it's
midterm times, when it's time to actually vote and put, you know, pen to paper, I don't think these people are going to suddenly become Democrats.
ANDERSON: S.E., it's always good to have your analysis, so useful. Thank you very much indeed.
CUPP: Sure.
ANDERSON: In Texas, search efforts are ongoing to locate those who are still missing after those catastrophic floods. In Kerrville, fresh storms
forced ground searches to temporarily suspend their operations on Sunday, it comes as multiple search and rescue teams tells CNN it was days before
they were deployed to Texas by what is known as the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, which is facing an overhaul under the Trump
administration, with some agency officials saying that new bureaucratic red tape led to delays in getting those rescue teams into action.
Well, Leigh Waldman is live from Kerr County, Texas now. And as you and I speak, it is morning there, what does the situation look like today?
LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, it's been raining nonstop here this morning, and over the weekend, we saw some heavy downpours to the
point where those ground search operations that have been continuing for over a week now had to be paused here in Kerrville, because the rivers
behind us were starting to rise again. Some of the roadways on the lower roads were starting to have water covering them, so those ground operations
had to stop.
Now this morning, they are continuing. We saw a group from Ohio of search and rescuers come to this area wherein they took canine to the river's edge
over there to go and start searching some of the debris that's left behind from the flood that came through again on the Fourth of July, more than a
week ago.
Now, we also know this morning, there was a city council meeting from the Kerrville City Council. They're holding steady that this is still a search
and rescue mission that's happening here, but city council members expressed some concern and asked the city for additional safety and
security for them. They said that they've been receiving threats in light of the disaster response here for the city. They didn't elaborate on what
those threats were, but they did ask for more security to keep those council members safe.
Happening right now, Becky, is a Commissioner's court meeting for Kerr County commissioners. Now, they're hearing input from people who live in
this community, and we're hearing from some business owners who are speaking saying that they're concerned about looters coming through the
area in light of this disaster.
One of the commissioners also is asking all of the volunteers who are out here searching the rivers that we see behind us that are starting to flow
quicker and quicker with this rain that we saw over the weekend and into today, they're asking all of those volunteers to register and sign in so
they know exactly who is out, so they can keep track of everyone and make sure that everyone remains safe.
All of this as there's still more than 150 people. Missing, and at least 132 people across this entire area who have died in light of this flooding.
[10:20:07]
ANDERSON: Leigh Waldman, good to have you. Thank you very much indeed. And just after 9:00 there in the morning.
Still to come, lawmakers say conditions for detainees at Florida's new migrant detention center in the Everglades are, "Inhumane." What they say
they saw at Alligator Alcatraz, as it is known.
Plus, European trade ministers meeting in Brussels to weigh their options after renewed terror threats from Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: It's being dubbed Alligator Alcatraz, but the Miami Herald and the Tampa Bay Times reporting that more than 250 people being held at the
new migrant detention center in Florida's Everglades of no criminal record. The facility has been under scrutiny by some immigration rights activists
and a number of lawmakers who call it an inhumane and dehumanizing place.
Florida's Republican governor and other supporters have said the facility is necessary to alleviate burdens on the state's law enforcement agencies
and jails.
CNN's Rafael Romo following this story for us. We've been reaching out for comment ourselves at CNN, but failing any response from authorities at this
point, what do we understand from this reporting to be going on there at this point?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. So far, no answer from officials, Becky, but you may remember this because it was a very public
event at the beginning of the month when President Donald Trump toured the migrant detention facility in the Florida Everglades. He said that it would
very soon house some of the most menacing migrants, some of the most vicious people on the planet, the president said, but this, a new report
published Sunday suggests that may not be the case.
Hundreds of immigrants with no criminal charges in the United States are being held at Alligator Alcatraz according to this investigation by the
Miami Herald and the Tampa Bay Times, which obtained records about the migrants being held there.
According to the report, Becky, there are more than 250 people who are listed as having only immigration violations but no criminal convictions,
who are being held together with those accused and convicted of crimes.
The report says only a third of the detainees have criminal convictions with charges that range from attempted murder, very serious, to illegal
reentry into the United States, as well as minor ones as traffic violations.
The information comes from a list of more than 700 migrants who are either already being held at the tent facility or are scheduled to be transferred
there. Several elected officials, Becky and members of Congress had access to the migrant Detention Center on Saturday for the first time since it
opened earlier this month. This is what two of them had to say about the facility. Let's take a listen.
[10:25:10]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): They should not put humans in cages in the middle of swampland in the Everglades. It's outrageous, it's
inhumane, it's unlawful.
REP. MAXWELL FROST (D-FL): What is the hurricane plan? What is the plan with flooding? We want to see the medical unit. We want to see what the
segregation unit looks like. We want to see where the law library is. We want to see all this and make sure that it's up to the standards of what a
federal facility is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: And Becky, Wasserman Schultz also said that migrants are packed into what she described as cages with 32 people inside each holding unit and
only three toilets available for all those people.
In an interview with NBC on Sunday, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem dismissed the claims, saying ICE detention centers are generally better
than most county jails or federal prisons across the United States. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, our detention centers at the federal level are held to a higher standard than most local or state
centers and even federal prisons. The standards are extremely high.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: And this is a final point, Becky, and this is very, very important, especially for that part of the country. After touring the detention center
Saturday, Representative Darren Soto, a Democrat, said lawmakers also witnessed evidence of flooding, highlighting serious concerns of what could
happen if detainees if there's severe weather during what forecasters say may be a very busy hurricane season, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, good to have you, Rafael, thank you very much indeed. More on that as we get it.
Well, the European Union's Trade Commission has a stark warning about the impact of Donald Trump's trade war, saying he's threatened 30 percent
tariff on goods from the E.U. would effectively knock out Trans-Atlantic Trade. The bloc delaying countermeasures that were meant to take effect
today until early August in order to allow more time for negotiations.
CNN Business Correspondent Anna Stewart is in London. So, look, there's a big assessment or reassessment, or reassessment going on by E.U. trade
ministers again today in Brussels, because frankly, they're probably discussing that they don't know what's going on at present, correct? What
do you -- what are you hearing coming out of that meeting?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just had the press conference with the E.U. trade commissioner, Maros Sefcovic, and the message, I would
say, has kind of been the same throughout, which is, they hope for peace, but they're preparing for war.
And I think this latest announcement of a 30 percent tariff actually took everyone kind of by surprise, because both sides have kind of voiced good
noises on trade talks that felt like both sides were coming together, and perhaps it would reach somewhere.
Goldman Sachs actually, in a note, said this letter to the E.U. from President Trump did come as a surprise, and the tariff level of 30 percent
is higher than what we had in April at so called Liberation Day. So, it's actually higher than it was. It's not as high, there is the 50 percent that
was threatened at one stage by President Trump.
Now, today, in this press conference with the trade commissioner, they laid out what they're planning to do, which is negotiate. They have to the first
of August until this tariff will take effect. So, essentially, they're still in negotiations. Not much has changed on that front.
However, they are preparing for retaliation. They paused a whole raft of tariffs that was due to come to effect tomorrow on U.S. goods. They put a
pause on that so allow those negotiations to take place. That was $25 billion I think.
That also, though, Becky, discussing today the next round, because that was only for steel and aluminum tariffs, which was a very, very, very long time
ago from the U.S. They're now looking at what comes next? What about the car retaliation? What about the retaliation, for instance, to this 30
percent level? So that's where they go next. They're looking at a $72 billion package of retaliation against the U.S.
Of course, President Trump has made very clear that whatever trade partners retaliate with will simply be added to what the U.S. puts on them. So we
could see a real escalation going forwards, but not for just over two weeks. That is how long they have to keep negotiating at this stage.
Interesting to see what this is going to do for the European economy. What it's going to do, for instance, for ECB decisions, we had a note from UBS
earlier today saying they're now expecting not to have a rate cut this month, but for that to be pushed back to September, it's just more wait and
see for Europe. You see markets they open lower, they're still pretty mixed, but nothing significant, because I feel like we're still in trade
negotiations.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. And I'm looking at the U.S. markets. And again, it really just feels like investors are sort of almost trying to kind of,
no, sit this one out, you know, or certainly look for other opportunities that they see.
I mean, look, those are the -- those are the live U.S. markets. You know, some confusion clearly still.
Good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.
A deadly weekend for Gaza as ceasefire talks falter, and just when you think it can't get any worse for civilians, they're hearing a new dire
warning from the head of UNRWA.
[10:30:09]
Plus, pressure builds on Israel's prime minister. New polling shows just how much Israelis want him to end the war and bring the hostages home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, with me, Becky Anderson. The headlines for you this hour.
And U.S. President Donald Trump meeting the secretary general of NATO at the White House as we speak. President Trump and Mark Rutte, sit down a few
days after the president said the U.S. also native defense -- NATO defensive weapons that -- NATO can then give to Ukraine. He is also touting
a major announcement on Russia.
Donald Trump, standing by his Attorney General Pam Bondi, as much of his MAGA base revolts over the Jeffrey Epstein case. Bondi facing increasing
pressure over a decision she made not to release any more files on Epstein, after promising to put new information out there. Sources say FBI Deputy
Director Dan Bongino, has said, he is considering resigning over the matter.
Well, Europe's trade ministers are meeting today in Brussels to discuss their next move over U.S. President Donald Trump threatened 30 percent
tariffs on the European Union and Mexico over the weekend. E.U. trade commission said a levy that high would effectively knock out transatlantic
trade.
Well, hopes have been high for the latest round of negotiations on a cease fire deal and a hostage deal in Gaza, but the talks in Doha, it seems, are
floundering, and it has been a deadly weekend in Gaza itself. The Israeli military admitting one of its air strikes aimed at an Islamic Jihad
terrorist, missed its target and landed near a water distribution point.
Medical officials counted six children among the dead. Israel says the incident is under review. The acting head of the U.N.'s relief agency for
Palestinians says that conditions in Gaza are worse than they have ever been.
With a distribution heavily controlled by Israel people forced to make impossible choices to obtain the most basic necessities. Well, my next
guest has her finger on the pulse of Israeli politics and Israeli sentiment. She writes in a recent Haaretz piece, "Israel today is a society
that tolerates and encourages material incitement to terror in its classic form: politically motivated violence against civilians, every single day,
but against Gazans. The chief offenders are Israel's own government ministers."
[10:35:02]
Well, public opinion researcher Dahlia Scheindlin joins me now to discuss more about this. She is with us from Tel Aviv today.
Thank you for joining us. You and I haven't spoken for some time. Dahlia, I want to start with some polling, because you are the master pollster. A
poll for Israel's Channel 12 said that 74 percent of the public supports ending the war in one step. 75, nearly three quarters. 12 percent don't
support a deal at all, eight percent support the phased deal that the government is trying to promote at present. And six percent don't know.
Let's start there. What do you make of that, and what does it tell you?
DAHLIA SCHEINDLIN, POLICY FELLOW, THE CENTURY FOUNDATION: Well, it tells me what every Israeli would really know, even without a poll, which is that
the vast majority of the Israeli public at this point, is desperate to get the hostages back, and frankly, prefers to end the war to do so, because,
you know, increasing the numbers of Israelis realize that the war's aims have essentially become political.
Political either whether you believe that the war aims now are primarily to preserve the coalition or to advance a very sort of religious
fundamentalist aim of Israel's ministers who wish to annex Gaza and rebuild settlements. But they certainly do not see the continuation of the war as
advancing bringing the hostages back.
Now, I have to say that there has been a majority, or a strong plurality, among Israelis for getting to a hostage deal that would see the hostages
released in return for concessions, from Israel's perspective, pretty much throughout the last year and a half, and that number has only grown since
January 2025 when we saw the second hostage release deal that went for two months before it collapsed, before Israel violated it.
But the majority of Israelis who support a complete end to the war, for a complete return of all the hostages in one phase has grown. And the Channel
12 poll is not the only one that shows three quarters who support exactly that formulation. We even have polls showing that slightly lower number,
but still a strong majority, 62 to 65 percent support complete end to the war, even if you don't mention the hostages. And that's a very strong
statement, which the government has for the most government has, for the most part, chosen to ignore.
ANDERSON: This is how Benjamin Netanyahu responded to these polls. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL (through translator): These are engineered polls. They constantly mislead the public, but they are always
surprised by what really happens afterward, because they don't ask, do you want a hostage release deal that leaves Hamas in place so it can carry out
more rapes, murders, kidnappings, and invasions? No. When you put it that way, the numbers flip completely. This is full manipulation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Is he right?
SCHEINDLIN: No. Frankly, no. There is a very clear way to test whether polls are telling something like the truth as much as we can know the truth
about the public mind, and that's when you repeat them. And there have been different polls asking a version of this question with showing all sorts of
like, I said, concessions from the Israeli perspective, over the course of the last year, year and a half, as the nature of those concessions has
changed, whether it was would you support a hostage release deal and a cease fire instead of invading Rafah, way back in April 2024? And no matter
how you ask the question, no matter what kinds of concessions you talk about, you still have a majority or a very strong plurality, with a double-
digit lead for the hostage release and a cease fire.
Now, what the prime minister was trying to portray as a poll question was, frankly, a very manipulative approach in itself. You know, of course, if
you only talk about the most horrible aspects of October 7th recurring in the event that there would be a cease fire, he is absolutely right that you
would get different results. But the problem is that Israelis don't actually believe that.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: All right.
SCHEINDLIN: As far, again, when we have different polls showing that over 60 percent want to end the war, even without mentioning hostages, they
simply don't believe that the current situation is what it was on the eve of October 7th, which is what he's trying to convey. And that would be a
major poll manipulation and, frankly, unprofessional, I don't advise him to become a pollster.
ANDERSON: That same Channel 12 poll also found 51 percent of the public think Netanyahu has done a bad job. 41 percent think he's done a good job.
What does that tell you about his domestic position?
There is much talk that this war has become politicized, much talk that he could go to the polls once again, with or without, perhaps, without his
right-wing. What does that part of the poll tell you about his standing with Israelis?
SCHEINDLIN: Yes. What that poll tells me is consistent, again, with dozens of other polls that we've seen over the course of the last year, I would
say, since the government recovered from its very, very deep low point in the six months after October 7th.
[10:40:09]
But recovery meant that Netanyahu's personal ratings have been very consistently in the upper 30 percent, lower 40 percent range for years.
In fact, during this war, before this war, before the last elections, that is generally his core of support. For him personally, that's also the
general range of support. Again, it can reach as high as 42, 43 percent of the Israeli public, and a little few more percentage points who prefer him
as prime minister. And you could very well have him win the next election.
It's worth remembering that with the last election, the parties that are currently in the coalition only got 48 percent of the vote -- of the vote.
So, he is in a decent position and a very consistent finding relative to where he was in the first six months after October 7th. But it is also
notable. We haven't even mentioned the war in Iran for, you know, for most Israelis, that war was a stunning success. Netanyahu portrayed it as a
stunning success, militarily on the intelligence level and diplomatically.
And yet, his numbers haven't changed. He still remains squarely within the range he was before the war, whether you consider that a strong or weak
position, which is notable. It means, to my mind, that that's pretty much his ceiling.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Right.
SCHEINDLIN: But again, it's just a few percentage points away from a potential victory or a potential loss in the next election.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Dahlia, really. And thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Of course, Donald Trump was promising a cease fire deal back end of last week. It appears that those talks have floundered in Doha.
I spoke to Ehud Olmert, a former Israeli Prime Minister, last week when Benjamin Netanyahu was in D.C. Take a listen to what he told me at the
time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EHUD OLMERT, FORMER PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: if a president will decide to use his authority and to exercise it in a very explicit manner, saying to
Netanyahu, just the end has come, and you have to stop the war now so that the hostages will be released and the ceasefire agreement will be achieved.
If he will decide to do it, I'm almost certain that he can do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The view of Ehud Olmert., and we will be back after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, a two-year evacuation project has begun in the Irish town of Tuam. Forensic experts from Ireland and around the world are expected to
uncover human remains, including hundreds of babies.
Well, Donie O'Sullivan joins us now from York, with more on this. Donnie.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Becky, they are about to -- the dig has got underway at this very dark piece of Irish history -- piece of
recent Irish history.
[10:45:08]
And we'd know very little, or maybe nothing even about it, if it wasn't for the work of one very determined local historian and grandmother. Have a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): In the middle of this housing estate lies one of Ireland's darkest secrets.
O'SULLIVAN: There was knowledge that something was here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the coaster was here.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just hidden during the last --
O'SULLIVAN: Now, we're here in the town of Tuam, it's on the west of Ireland, and this housing estate was once the site of a so-called, Mother
and Baby Home.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Between the 1920s and 1990s, tens of thousands of Irish women who became pregnant outside of marriage were sent to homes run
by nuns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every inch of that now is going to be excavated.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Contraception was illegal in Ireland until the 1980s and abortion was illegal here until 2018.
JOHN RODGERS, BORN IN MOTHER AND BABY HOME, IRELAND: The church and the states, they had this thing about unmarried mothers being evil. They looked
on them as dangerous because they were dangerous to men.
O'SULLIVAN: John Rodgers was born in the Mother and Baby Home here in Tuam.
ROGERS: A lock of hair. My mother kept that for 40 years and gave it back to me the day that we were reunited.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): John was taken away from his mother, Bridie Rodgers, when he was only 1-year-old.
RODGERS: Because she swore the day that she took that no church or state would ever be able to claim me as their own. I belong to Bridie Rodgers.
CATHERINE CORLESS, LOCAL HISTORIAN: So, I think there's somewhere about the bounce, of course.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Local historian and grandmother Catherine Corless began researching the Tuam Baby Home from her kitchen table.
O'SULLIVAN: This is what I'm --
CORLESS: That is the home itself now.
O'SULLIVAN: That's what I'm --
CORLESS: That's what it looks like.
O'SULLIVAN: That's what -- that's what housing estate.
CORLESS: Yes, yes. That's it.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): She made a shocking discovery.
O'SULLIVAN: You discovered 796 babies had died in this home.
CORLESS: Yes. Yes, yes.
O'SULLIVAN: There's no records --
CORLESS: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: -- of them being buried anywhere else.
(CROSSTALK)
CORLESS: Yes. Anywhere else. Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: But there is this septic tank.
CORLESS: Yes. Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: What did you think?
CORLESS: Well, I was horrified. Absolutely horrified. But first of all, I had to absolutely prove it, and keep talking and keep saying they are
there.
O'SULLIVAN: Catherine kept talking, even though some people in Tuam and in the Irish Catholic Church wanted her to stop.
CORLESS: First of all, I felt that the resistance. I wasn't expecting that.
I just thought they said they would look at my research, and say, my God. I thought they take it over from me and do something.
I mean -- I mean, between the archbishop, the nuns, the whole lot. But no.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Her discovery shocked Ireland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tomb is not just a burial ground. It's a social and cultural sepulcher. It seemed as if in Ireland our women had the amazing
capacity to self-impregnate. And for their trouble, we took their babies and we gifted them, or we sold them, or we traffic them or we starve them,
or we neglected them, or we denied them to the point of their disappearance?
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Now, forensic archaeologists are beginning the delicate process of exhuming and identifying the baby's remains.
RODGERS: This baby's that are in septic tank, maybe they were my playmates. I'll never know. All I know is that those children, friends of mine, they
disappeared.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): In homes like this across Ireland, many babies disappeared because they died. Others disappeared sometimes after allegedly
being illegally adopted or trafficked to America.
ANNA CORRIGAN, LOST BORTHER AT TUAM: I'm here. I've spent 10 years looking to find you.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Two of Anna Corrigan's brothers were born in the Tuam Home. She believes one of them was sent to America and could still be
alive.
CORRIGAN: If somebody is watching this and if you know anything about a William Joseph Dolan, who was born in the Tuam Home in 1950, and would have
been 8 months old when he was moved to either America or Canada, please reach us.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Her other brother, John, died as a baby and is on Catherine Corless's list of 796 names. His body may be in the septic tank.
CORRIGAN: For the children that are lying up there, they've been crying for a long time. They've been crying to be heard. They didn't have dignity in
life. They didn't have dignity in death. And we're hoping now that they will be identified. They will be moved to a dignified burial.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): The Republic of Ireland has been an independent country for a hundred years now after a proud history of fighting British
colonial oppression. But for much of the last century, the Irish Catholic Church and the Irish government colluded to create a form of oppression of
their own, one that specifically targeted women.
[10:50:09]
What's happening here in Tuam is a reckoning.
O'SULLIVAN: As a younger Irish person, I just find it very hard to reconcile how people put up with this. I understand it was probably fear.
RODGERS: It was fear. It was fear. I think it was because the church, the Catholic Church had such a grip on people and they were trying to dictate
morally and they were trying to introduce, I suppose, a Purian society.
CORRIGAN: They wanted to show we're not like those and no disrespect to anybody watching on their religion, we're not like those Protestants. We're
good, wholesome Catholics. Right? And we have comely maidens dancing at the crossroads. And we don't have any of that carry on that goes on in other
countries. But we do because we're human beings.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): The Irish government organization that is running this excavation now is a process in place online. People can go if they
want to submit their own DNA, if they suspect that they may have a relative in the tomb home, in that -- in that septic tank, or also if they want to
track, you know, many people, as we mentioned in that piece, were sent especially to the U.S. and to Canada, illegally trafficked, in some cases,
or sold through illegal adoptions, people may be here in the U.S. who came from that home without potentially realizing it.
I mean, think a lot of the audience is familiar with the Judi Dench and Steve Coogan movie, "Philomena", or a person born in a Mother and Baby
Home. Track, and track their story back to Ireland. So, we'll be seeing a lot of that play out over the next few years in this very dark chapter of
Irish history.
ANDERSON: Yes. Yes, Donie, thank you, powerful stuff. Thank you. We back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, this weekend, the Oasis's Wonderwall was buzzing once again in Manchester after a 16-year hiatus. CNN's Ben Hunte has more from this
long-awaited reunion tour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN HUNTE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (voice over): Welcome home, Oasis. Manchester, England is where it all began for the band, more than three
decades ago. And to some hometown fans, even after a 16-year gap, it feels like they never left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely epic, legendary, and just once in a lifetime. Absolutely fantastic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HUNTE: Manchester has been hit by a champagne supernova of excitement over the return of brothers Liam and Noel Gallagher, who make up the core of
Oasis. Tickets to the shows are sold out. There's a mural of the brothers in the city center, and city officials say about 350,000 people are
expected to travel here just to see the band. But it's more than a concert to these diehard fans.
CROWD: We believe and (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we got them done today, this morning for it.
HUNTE (voice over): It was an all-day event for some people, waiting in the hot sun outside heat and park for the show they've been waiting years for.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, this is my son. He's grown up with the music. And to be back here with him in Manchester for the homecoming gig is just like
nothing else. It's just like a dream come true.
[10:55:02]
HUNTE (voice over): The Oasis reunion tour began in Cardiff Wales more than a week ago, and their songs have resonated so much with fans that Oasis is
once again dominating the U.K. album charts with three of their records in the top five.
After Manchester, the tour continues in the U.K. and Ireland, along with stops in North and South America, Asia, and Australia. But fans say the
vibe here is one of a kind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No disrespect to card. If it did look absolutely amazing when band looked absolutely on another level, but I think they were
preparing for this. I think it's all about coming back to Manchester, isn't it?
HUNTE (voice over): Ben Hunte, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: And that's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
