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Starvation Victims in Gaza Number 15 in 24 Hours; Trump "Caught Off Guard" by Israeli Actions; Why Israel Struck Syria Last Week; Trump OK with Release of "Credible" Epstein Evidence; Rare Glimpse inside Russian Drone Factory; American among Druze Executed during Syria's Sectarian Violence; Search for Austin Tice Persists during New Syrian Government; Study Links Smartphone and Children's Mental Health; "The Late Show" Host Addresses Cancellation. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired July 22, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): And welcome to the second hour of the show from our Middle East headquarters here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky
Anderson. Time here just after 6:00 in the evening.
The starvation crisis in Gaza deepens as the E.U.'s top diplomat says Israel, quote, "must stop killing people seeking aid."
Meanwhile, the White House dilemma over the Epstein files continues amid calls by House members for the release of the documents.
And another round of peace talks expected on Wednesday between Russia and Ukraine.
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ANDERSON: We begin in Gaza, where 15 people have reportedly died of starvation in the last 24 hours. Four of them were children. Well, now
pressure is growing on Israel to let more aid.
In the European Union's top diplomat put it very bluntly, telling Israel's foreign minister that his country must stop killing people seeking
assistance and increase the aid flow or face repercussions. More than 1,000 people have been killed at distribution sites in the enclave since late
May.
Meantime, we have new reporting out of the White House that U.S. president Trump was caught off guard by Israeli attacks in Gaza recently and in Syria
last week and that he wasn't too happy about it. Well, that reporting coming into us from CNN's Kevin Liptak, who joins us live from the White
House.
And, Kevin, what more are you learning at this point?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it's fair to say that there's growing skepticism in the White House toward the prime
minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Look, this is not a full break in the relationship. It's not an explosion that is going to have massive
repercussions.
But what we're seeing starting to bubble up is a growing sentiment by the president and his advisers that Netanyahu just isn't on board with some of
the president's own objectives in the Middle East; namely, bringing the war in Gaza to an end and trying to bring more stability to the broader region.
And those two incidents last week really did catch the president by surprise, in part because he thought he had an understanding with Netanyahu
after his visit here to Washington two weeks ago, to try and bring some of this fighting to an end.
And you'll remember that meeting was a highly friendly meeting. The prime minister coming with this letter, nominating president Trump for a Nobel
Peace Prize, that he dramatically presented over dinner in the White House Blue Room.
Netanyahu and Trump had seemed to be very much on the same page after Trump joined in Israel's strikes on Iran last month. But then those two
incidents, I think, really surprised the president and his team.
First, when Israel struck a Catholic Church in Gaza, the president almost immediately got on the telephone to demand an explanation from Netanyahu
but also to ensure that he put out a statement, saying that the airstrike was a mistake, which Netanyahu did do.
That was followed a few days later by Israeli airstrikes on the Syrian capital, Damascus, which also caught the president by surprise, because he
is trying to bring more stability to that country. He has eased sanctions, he has thrown his backing behind the interim president.
And part of the reason why that caught him off guard was a misunderstanding about why Israel was going and bombing a place that he was trying to bring
peace. And so you do see a number of instances where the president has felt that Netanyahu seems to be going counter to what he's trying to achieve in
the region.
Part of what's fueling the frustration, I think, is that Trump thinks he has an understanding with Netanyahu and thought that this relationship
would be able to provide leverage to convince Netanyahu to come along with the U.S. objectives for the region.
But, of course, Trump is not the first president who thought he would be able to leverage his relationship with Netanyahu.
You know, President Biden really spent the last 1.5 years in office trying to use what relationship he had with Netanyahu, which dated back decades,
to get him to ease up on the war in Gaza without much success at all.
I think president Trump is finding as well that the relationship that he does have with Netanyahu, which has never been especially close -- there
have been moments of distrust before -- but he is finding that that relationship really can only go so far in convincing Netanyahu to cede to
his own desires for the region. Becky.
[10:05:05]
ANDERSON: Kevin, stand by. I want to bring in former Israeli peace negotiator Daniel Levy into this conversation.
Daniel, it's good to have you. First, I want to get a sense of what you make of the president being -- and let's describe it as being caught off
guard. We've seen Trump very publicly lash out at Israel during the Iran conflict.
Do you think Trump has a handle on this situation and, very specifically, on Netanyahu at this point?
DANIEL LEVY, PRESIDENT, U.S.-MIDDLE EAST PROJECT: You know, I'm not sure he does, Becky, for one very simple reason, which is, to get that, you have
to acknowledge that this is an Israeli leader going for an end game, going for an end game outcome, where Israel is dominant in the region, where the
Palestinians are finished.
As far as he's concerned, he's trying to drive the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. So if you're an American president and you take at face value
an Israeli leader who is telling you, Mr. President, we take the lead on this, you just come in to take the glory. We've already weakened the
Iranians. Now we can go ahead.
And we'll build a Pax Americana, Mr. President, with Israel in the lead and the other countries will come under our umbrella because they've got no
choice.
But if you premise that on bombing everywhere and on, really?
Let's look at those pictures out of Gaza, carrying out a genocide, as is now well documented, if you premise it on that, then you really lose that
floating Arab vote. You're not going to get peace.
And the American president, I think, who is used to an Israel that, yes, they're like us, I don't think it's easy to acknowledge the reality. If you
acknowledge the reality, you have to do more than use words. You have to use your leverage with an Israeli leader, which American presidents are
traditionally loath to do.
This president isn't traditional. So let's see.
ANDERSON: Yes. You're making a really interesting point. And I want to bring up something that you recently wrote.
You said, quote, "Netanyahu's horizons, of course, extend beyond Gaza -- his narrative is that if Iran is downsized and contained, its wings
sufficiently clipped, that a new and reorganized Middle East can be birthed."
I wonder what you believe the U.S. position on this Israeli expansionism is, first in the Palestinian Territories and then, of course, beyond that,
given Israel's actions in Iran, Lebanon and now in Syria in this past week.
LEVY: So we heard for decades -- primarily Netanyahu, because he was the Israeli leader most of this time -- that if you could bring down the
Iranians, cut them down to size -- this was the head of the snake, they would call it. Then we can just redo the region and it's all going to be
fabulous.
You're hardly going to expect the Israeli leader to drop that narrative at the moment when he claims victory and having achieved that. And he's
achieved his biggest success, which is to bring the Americans into bombing Iran, that was the long-standing effort.
So now you actually have to test the proposition. First of all, Iran hasn't been weakened nearly as much as they're claiming. But even if you take it
that much further, then you say, OK, Israel.
Well, what are you willing to do now to create an environment in the region which makes things easier for those other countries to come alongside you?
And Israel saying, no, no, no, that's not what we intended. What we're telling you is they will accept our preeminence, our dominance, our
hegemony, that we can do anything we want and especially against the Palestinians. They will have to accept that as a fait accompli.
But I think the region is looking at this and saying, wait a minute, the Palestinians is an issue that resonates with our public. We can come close
to you, Israel. But when people see on their screens every day forced starvation, mass killings, just the human suffering inflicted by you, that
is not a place we can move toward.
And therefore much of the region is saying this is just another baloney new Middle East scheme. We've heard of them for so long, none of them come
true. And in this instance we see Israel actually as the most radicalizing revisionist state in the region.
That's winding everyone up and that's destabilizing the region. And some of those states are now saying maybe, maybe Israel's going to have a go at us
next. We have to be prepared for this. We can't let it happen.
ANDERSON: And I want to -- yes, I want to come back to you on that and get a little bit more from you on what you believe.
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Some of the countries who've already signed Abraham Accords, for example, with Israel, how you believe they stand.
And then with Saudi Arabia, who we are told would normalize were it not for the Palestinian issue, just work out where we are at with that.
Before I do that, Kevin, look, Daniel, really echoing what I hear is many of Netanyahu's critics around the region who certainly contend this is no
longer a strategy of deterrence. And it's more a deliberate campaign to preemptively reshape the region according to Israel's maximalist ambitions.
Do you get a sense from your sources at the White House that Donald Trump is considering any change in policy on Israel-Gaza?
Is he willing to enact any meaningful repercussions against Netanyahu at this point?
LIPTAK: Frankly, it doesn't seem as if that's in the president's thinking at the moment. As Daniel was saying, president Trump has joined a long
string of American presidents, who seem unwilling to use the leverage that the U.S. does have over Israel, to try and exact any changes in how it's
conducting its war.
But as he also mentioned -- and it is also true that Trump is an untraditional president, who has, in the past, been willing to entertain
options that his predecessors cast aside. At this point, I think the president is still holding out hope that this ceasefire arrangement will
come to fruition.
And it does seem as if the holdout right now is Hamas leadership in Gaza still waiting to hear back on this proposal that would allow some of the
hostages to come out.
The president very much holding out hope that that effort will finally, after so many previous attempts fell through, that this will be the time
that a ceasefire, at least a temporary one, is struck.
But you know, these images coming out of Gaza are very powerful and they have had an effect on the president. This is someone who is moved by
imagery. He's a visual guy. These are images that have disturbed him, one, but also seem to imperil his goal of achieving a Nobel Peace Prize. This is
his overarching dream.
And I think the longer that the Gaza war persists, the longer that this famine takes hold, as more and more children die from starvation, the
president sees that goal becoming further and further from reach.
And you can envision the president at some point coming to Netanyahu and saying, this is enough and I'm willing to do X, Y, Z to bring this war to
an end. But what that X, Y and Z are aren't exactly clear.
It's very difficult to imagine, for instance, the U.S. cutting off arms to Israel under president Trump or cutting aid to Israel under president
Trump. That's not necessarily a politically tenable position for a Republican in the United States.
And so, even if the president wanted to change his policy toward Israel in a dramatic way, it's not precisely clear what the options in front of him
might be.
ANDERSON: And let me bring you back in, Daniel. There is an argument that Netanyahu has effectively done the bidding for many in the region where I
am, in the Gulf, in reshaping the security architecture across the Middle East, potentially birthing a broader peace picture.
So this Israeli expansionism that you speak of, do you see that as being acceptable to the signatories of the Abraham Accords or to Saudi Arabia?
And I'm talking perhaps medium to long term here. And these are countries - - and very specifically the Saudis, who the Americans really badly want to see normalized with Israel at this point.
LEVY: So it's an interesting balancing act. I think it's fair to look at it in that way. On the one hand, many of those countries designated Hamas a
terrorist organization and were apparently none too perturbed by seeing Hamas brought down several pegs.
They have had their issues with Iran. That's something that changed recently. Each of them have had a lot of outreach to Iran. But yes, Iran in
a less strident position, certainly Iran's allied forces elsewhere in the region, yes, we can tick that box.
However, then you have to look at the other side of the equation.
Is the ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinians their comfort zone?
Even if for some of them, Palestinians aren't what they wake up and think about in the morning, it's a very uncomfortable place to be with your own
public. The Saudi position on normalization, I think, has moved significantly as a consequence when it comes to Iran.
Yes, Iran is -- has been something that appeared significantly in their mapping of their threats in the region.
[10:15:02]
But to have an Iran that is less predictable, that, maybe with its back up against the wall, might do things that it didn't do or -- and I think this
is crucial.
Because people are increasingly realizing that this is what Israel seems to have in mind -- to have an Iran as a collapsed, failing state, because
Israel doesn't believe its own hype about neat regime change. It becomes pro-Israel, pro-American.
If that's what they're trying to achieve to have collapsed, well, that didn't go so well for everyone else when it happened in Iraq. And they
don't want to see that, either, there. And likewise in Syria.
So you have this kind of competition between those who want to see stability. But in Israel, which seems to have gone off on its own totally
different journey, which is we are going to dictate the entire terms of the settlement.
And now you have countries -- look at Turkiye, for instance, not an Arab country but an important country in the region. They're now hearing what
the Israelis are saying. And inside Israel you have an increasing drumbeat, Turkiye's next. Turkiye's not going to sit on the sidelines and wait for
that to happen.
So I think a lot of countries are looking at this and saying, someone has to bring this out-of-control state to heel, especially since, having now
seemingly attempted in their way to address Iran's nuclear program, we're reminded that there is one nuclear armed state in the region and that is
Israel.
So when you put all of those things together, it's a bit of a worrying package for many of the states in the region, who may well have leant into
the idea that the best way is to make common cause with Israel.
The other thing that one really mustn't forget in all this, Becky, if I may, is Israel internally itself, the idea that Israel can be permanently
at war, keep expanding the contours of who it as at war with, be so dependent on the U.S.
By the way, at a time where Israel has become more controversial inside both Democrat and Republican MAGA circles and the idea that Israeli society
can sustain that, it's a small country, not an endless supply of reservists. It has serious vulnerabilities.
And many would look at this and say, Israel is storing up for itself a disaster. Of course, it may not come quick enough for those Palestinians in
Gaza, West Bank and elsewhere who are going through hell and beyond. But this may well blow up in Israel's face.
ANDERSON: Right, Daniel, it's good to have you.
Kevin, thank you for your reporting. Important stuff, thank you.
And still to come on CNN, the focus on Jeffrey Epstein certainly doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon, despite president Donald Trump's
efforts to change the subject. How Capitol Hill is pushing for transparency. More on that coming up.
And the Kremlin downplays expectations ahead of another round of peace talks between Ukraine and Russia scheduled this week.
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ANDERSON: A number of Republicans on Capitol Hill are ratcheting up their demands for the release of more information on Jeffrey Epstein, despite
White House efforts to completely change the subject.
Even some of president Donald Trump's closest supporters warn that they would sign on to a bipartisan effort to force a vote on a bill to release
the files on the late sex offender. Trump ally Marjorie Taylor Greene spoke to CNN about the growing push for more transparency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I believe in transparency and I believe the American people. This is -- this is a serious issue. I can tell
you, for the past, gosh, more than a week, the highest volume of calls into my office have been about Jeffrey Epstein.
People want the information. They don't want things covered up, especially when it comes to the most well-known convicted pedophile in modern-day
history. It's important to them and they really want the information out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, CNN Politics senior reporter Stephen Collinson joining me now.
And some news just coming in to CNN. The Department of Justice, Stephen, has said it now plans to reach out to Ghislaine Maxwell, who is the
coconspirator and is in jail.
This do you believe will help relieve some of the pressure coming from the MAGA base?
Marjorie Taylor Greene, of course, personifies that base.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's an interesting step and it's the latest of several the administration has taken to try and
create a safety valve for some of this political pressure. It's the most significant one so far.
I'm not really sure, given the strength of feeling in Trump's activist base, that it will make that much difference. And it's a very interesting
step, however, because this is being led by Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, who was Donald Trump's former personal lawyer.
You can see the way that his business has now become the Justice Department's business. Ghislaine Maxwell, who's serving 20 years in prison
for helping facilitating Epstein's sex trafficking, she obviously has an incentive to provide information that the administration and the president
wants.
This is a president, after all, who has been very liberal in handing out pardons for political favors. So you can see why this perhaps doesn't feel
right to a lot of people as this emerges.
But whether there's any information that Ghislaine Maxwell can give that she's not already given, she was, after all, charged during the first Trump
administration. She was convicted during the Biden administration.
It's hard to think that there is real information that she could give that has not so far been tackled by administration prosecutors over the last
four years.
ANDERSON: Yes. Stephen, in your analysis piece this week -- and this came out before the DOJ news about Ghislaine Maxwell -- be that as it may, I
don't think you would have changed the conceit of your piece here.
You write, "Scandals that boil away and don't fade are always a dangerous sign for White Houses, even when the president has a Teflon hide as thick
as Donald Trump's."
I just -- I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why this scandal has become such a flashpoint for MAGA world and whether you believe this
president with a Teflon hide can ride this one out.
COLLINSON: Yes. And I think the question also to be asked is whether this is going to damage Trump politically in the long term in a way that could
really hamper his presidency. And I don't think we know that because we don't know exactly what the Justice Department has.
Or if there is -- or if this is really just not a conspiracy by the Justice Department or a cover-up and is just a bit of a political mess the
administration has made for himself.
But one reason why it's resonating so much is because, at the foundation of Trump's MAGA philosophy is this idea that the U.S. is being run by a deep
state cabal of elites, of intelligence agency officers, faceless establishment types, who are suppressing the real truth.
Trump and his officials who promoted this conspiracy theory are now the people in charge. And for many of these hardcore, far-right activists, this
state, this scandal, as they see it, is validating their belief.
[10:25:00]
That the people who said they were going to come into office to expose this supposed conspiracy and now the ones covering up are have been co-opted by
this deep state.
So you know, it seems absurd to people who are outside this group of political believers. But what's happened, in fact, has solidified the
belief in the conspiracy. You know, truth never washes away conspiracy theories. It only creates a new conspiracy. And I think we're seeing that
playing out here.
ANDERSON: Yes.
It's fascinating, isn't it?
It's always good to have you and your analysis. Always well worth a read. And I will push our viewers as ever to Stephen's latest, online at CNN
Digital, of course, and on your CNN app.
Thank you, Stephen.
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy says another round of peace talks between his country and Russia will be held on Wednesday in Turkiye.
But the Kremlin has already cautioned against expecting a, quote, "miraculous breakthrough," end quote. And there is skepticism within the
European Union that Moscow is genuinely interested in peace negotiations. The E.U.'s commissioner for defense telling CNN he believes Vladimir Putin
wants to continue the war.
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ANDRIUS KUBLIUS, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR DEFENSE AND SPACE: Well, you know, definitely -- and a lot of European leaders are very clearly saying
that there is no clear picture that Putin will agree on peace if the situation will continue to be as it is now.
Because perhaps he is considering that he is winning in this situation. And that is why, you know, strength on Ukrainian side is one of the conditions
how peace can be brought much more quickly. And that is what we need to do.
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ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Clare Sebastian joining me now.
Just having heard that sound, just how much progress might we expect in this round of peace talks?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, I think it's a good barometer of what to expect, the fact that the leadup to this is being
plagued by such confusion. The Kremlin, as you say, said it hopes that peace talks will happen but it hasn't fully confirmed when its delegation
will be sent.
The Ukrainian side has said that the talks will happen on Wednesday. But a source speaking to state news agency RIA Novosti on Monday, that's a
Russian state news agency, said that the talks would happen on Thursday and Friday.
Not for the first time since the start of this diplomatic process in mid- May have we seen some differences between the dates. You remember that journalists, among them myself, were waiting for an entire day outside the
Dolmabahce Palace in Istanbul back in mid-May for the first round to start, only to have them start a day later.
So this is typical of the whole process, I think, a sign of the ingrained mistrust between the two sides. And I think, look, it's clear that the
Kremlin has put a significant effort this week into downplaying expectations.
On Monday, Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, said that the peace memoranda that the two sides put out after the second round were
diametrically opposed. That is, of course, true.
And he said today that, even the return of dead bodies of soldiers on both sides would be an outcome in itself. The Ukrainian side have said that
their agenda will include more prisoner exchanges and, in particular, leading up -- preparations to lead up to a leaders meeting.
I think we can expect that there will be no hurry on the Russian side toward that and I think it remains to be seen because, of course, the
difference this time is that we now have this 50-day deadline set by the U.S. and the promise of new U.S. weapons being funneled to Ukraine via
NATO.
There's no sign as of yet that that has made any difference to the resolve toward any compromise on the Russian side. But certainly that will be
something to watch, if and when these talks get underway.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Clare, as ever. Thank you.
Russia, meanwhile, has been ramping up production of the drones that it uses to strike targets deep inside Ukraine. A highly secretive Russian
drone factory gave state media a rare tour of its operations. CNN's Matthew Chance reports from Moscow for you.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Over Kyiv, the ominous buzz of a Russian drone before it finds its target. Waves
of these attack drones pose a nightly threat against Ukrainian towns and cities.
Now we have a rare glimpse inside one highly secretive Russian drone factory where thousands of the cheap, simple and deadly weapons are
virtually flying off the assembly lines.
This is now the biggest factory in the world for attack drones, the company CEO, who sanctioned by the U.S. tells the Russian ministry of defense
television station. It's secret, he says. But we will show you something.
And what were shown is a vast and modern production facility employing thousands, hundreds of miles from the front lines and recently expanded,
we're told, enabling Russia's escalating campaign of drone strikes across Ukraine.
[10:30:06]
We must give credit to the strategic foresight of those who foresaw that this war would be a war of drones, the CEO says. And it's good. We're ready
for it, he adds.
There's also this extraordinary footage of drones being test launched at speed, while their performance is remotely monitored. While Russia's drone
program, once reliant on imports from Iran, is now self-sufficient.
Ukraine is waging its own drone war, of course, striking Kremlin forces deep inside Russia in highly sophisticated operations like this one last
month, targeting Russian strategic bombers.
On the front lines, drones from both sides have transformed the battlefield.
But these unprecedented images from this one Russian factory shows how the Kremlin is dramatically scaling up drone production and its capacity to
wage a long and devastating drone war in Ukraine -- Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, the fighting has stopped in southern Syria as a tense ceasefire holds, we are told, but hundreds are dead, including an American
man, apparently killed execution style while he was on a visit there. New details ahead.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Your headlines this hour.
And 15 people have starved to death in Gaza in the last 24 hours. That includes four children, according to local health officials there. As the
crisis grows, the European Union's top diplomat has warned Israel to stop killing people seeking aid and that all options are on the table if they
fail to do so.
Well, Russia has cautioned against expecting a, quote, "miraculous breakthrough" during expected peace talks with Ukraine. Negotiations are
due to resume on Wednesday in Turkiye, according to Ukraine.
Meanwhile, the fighting continues with 14 injured in attacks on Ukraine's Sumy region overnight.
Well, despite pressure from a number of Republicans on Capitol Hill, U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson is shutting down any chance of a House vote on
releasing additional files on late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein before September, at least. Lawmakers will soon begin their August recess.
[10:35:00]
And Johnson says he doesn't think further action is needed right now on the Epstein case.
ANDERSON: Well, in southern Syria, Bedouins have withdrawn from Druze communities around the city of Suwayda as part of a ceasefire agreement,
which ended days of sectarian clashes. One human rights group says that the fighting left more than 550 people dead. Other estimates are much higher.
We are now learning that one of the casualties was a U.S. citizen, who was visiting Syria as violence broke out. CNN's Ben Wedeman brings us video
posted to social media taken just before Hosam Saraya's killing. And you may find this footage disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allahu akbar.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shouting "Allahu akbar," "God is great," the unidentified gunman appeared
triumphant, marching through the streets of the southern Syrian city of Suwayda with prisoners, men from the Druze minority, all members of the
same family.
"We wanted to offer you safety but you refused to leave," someone shouts out of view.
Relatives of the captives told CNN they had fought back against the gunmen when their home was surrounded but surrendered after one of them was
wounded.
The person who shot the phone video passes by a bullet-pocked car. A dead man lies across the front seats. Another clip shows the captives on their
knees.
"Dogs," someone shouts.
And then a hail of machine gunfire for 15 seconds. All eight captives were killed. Among the dead, Hosam Saraya, a 35-year old U.S. citizen who had
studied in Oklahoma before returning to Syria.
The U.S. State Department confirmed Monday an American citizen had died in Suwayda, providing no further details, but added it was "greatly concerned"
when any U.S. citizen is harmed overseas, wherever they are and called for accountability in all cases where U.S. citizens are harmed abroad.
The execution in Suwayda is just a small snapshot of the madness that has since the 13th of July, engulfed this part of southern Syria, where various
Druze militia, which seek limited autonomy from Damascus, have battled Bedouin tribesmen loosely aligned with the central government.
The fighting has left hundreds dead, civilians as well as fighters, and has forced more than 90,000 people to flee their homes. Tuesday, Human Rights
Watch issued a report, claiming all sides, Bedouin and Druze fighters, as well as government forces, have committed abuses.
A ministry of interior spokesman tells CNN, such acts are absolutely unacceptable to us and those who committed them will face justice.
U.S., Turkish and Arab diplomats pushed through a shaky ceasefire but not before Israel entered the fray, bombing targets in Suwayda and Damascus in
defense, it claimed, of the Druze.
While the fighting raged, hundreds of Druze from the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights and Israel proper crossed into Syria in support of the community in
Suwayda.
Last week, interim Syrian president Ahmed al-Sharaa said in a televised address, "We are all partners in this land and we will not allow any group
to distort this beautiful image that expresses Syria and its diversity."
A diversity now more precarious than ever before -- Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: In southern Syria, further, is Gareth Browne. He is the Middle East correspondent for "The Economist."
You and I have spoken in the past about Syria -- and it's good to have you on again. We know a ceasefire is holding there or thereabouts. The mood has
been described as tense.
Do you see this as a crisis passed at this point?
GARETH BROWNE, MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT, "THE ECONOMIST": Well, that's a great question.
I don't think anyone for a moment thinks this is going to be the end of violence in Syria, particularly violence of a sectarian nature. You know,
we saw a very similar outbreak in March, those massacres in the coastal areas, which were mainly targeting Syria's Alawite minority.
And now we have this round of violence, which has heavily pulled in, you know, Syria's Druze community. You know, whether this is going to flare up
again in the near future is impossible to say.
But I think this just lays down another set of challenges, not just for Syria's interim president, Ahmed al-Sharaa. But you know, for everyone
trying to kind of retain Syria as a cohesive state. I think what we've seen is not just a wave of sectarian violence.
[10:40:03]
We've seen Israeli tinkering in support of certain actors within the Druze community, certain Druze militias. But we also saw, you know, quite a --
quite a desperate failing of state capacity on the part of Damascus and Ahmed al-Sharaa.
And, you know, this went on for so long, more than 1.5 weeks. And he wasn't able to get a lid on it.
And many people are thinking, you know, is this just state capacity or is this shadow?
And some of the radicals around him turning a blind eye to violence against minorities again?
ANDERSON: And there will be much consternation about what's been witnessed, I'm sure, in Washington. The U.S. saying it is greatly concerned
about the news of the American killed execution style in Suwayda that Ben was reporting on.
Multiple parties blaming fighters associated with the Syrian government, of course. At the height of this fighting, Washington also referred to the
conflict as a, quote, "misunderstanding," which many criticizes the U.S. misunderstanding the complexities of what is going on the ground.
What do you make of the U.S. response that we have witnessed to what we've witnessed so far?
BROWNE: Well, look, I think the administration, president Trump, they really put themselves out there a few months ago when they came out and,
you know, basically almost entirely lifted sanctions.
And I think even the staunchest advocate of lifting sanctions against Syria in Washington or Damascus was surprised by just how far president Trump
went with that.
And obviously, they've staked some credibility on putting their faith in this new government in Damascus to hold the country together, you know, to
settle things down, to placate minorities, to be inclusive and tolerant and all these things.
And this period of violence would be -- would appear to be a direct challenge to that. And, you know, we have voices within the Republican
Party now saying, look, how could we have lifted sanctions?
You know, president Sharaa's men are massacring Druze. And, of course, it's more complicated than that.
So I think the real hardliners in Washington, who are, you know, really believe that lifting sanctions in Syria is the right thing to do, this will
probably embolden them, because ultimately, it comes down to state capacity.
And how much can president Sharaa -- you know, how many men does he have at his disposal to rein in these more wayward actors?
So, you know, if you were pro lifting sanctions in Washington, you're probably more pro lifting sanctions now. And if you were against lifting
sanctions in Washington, that position has probably been emboldened, too.
ANDERSON: Which does beg the question, I wonder how long you think al- Sharaa has to quell this ethnic strife. And people have been concerned about this, of course, in the past.
You and I last spoke about the violence in Latakia on -- in the West, where a minority group was getting annihilated. I just wonder how long you think
he's got both for domestic and international support at this point.
BROWNE: I think he's got -- still got a lot of goodwill internationally. I think domestically is where the challenge lies. Look, Syria has been
through 50 years of dictatorship. You know, sectarian rule by a minority, 14 years of very violent civil war. And, you know, sectarianism doesn't
just disappear overnight.
You know, this is a hangover from the last 14 years of war. And there's probably going to be more incidents like this, let's be honest. But I think
the reality is there is no other figure on a national level in Syria that can do what Sharaa is trying to do.
And I think a lot of people understand that, if he's going to face a challenge, it would probably likely be from people closer to him; you know,
some of the SDF (ph) hardcores who thinks he's gone soft. He's become too, you know, he's strayed too far from his Islamist or jihadist past.
But there's nobody else in the country at the minute who can pull this whole thing together, you know, despite all his mistakes. And I think he
needs to come out and he needs to show willingness to adapt and be more inclusive and bring these minorities in.
Just today in Damascus, we've had this publication of the investigation into the, you know, the violence in the Alawite areas in March. And you
know, that report at first glance looked pretty good. It looks pretty thorough.
The question is now, is there going to be justice?
We've had these two massive, massive incidents and both need to be met with justice and the rule of law. And the state needs to play a role in
delivering that.
ANDERSON: Yes, very important point. Look, you refer to 14 years of war and you've just released the second episode of your investigation into U.S.
journalist Austin Tice, who was abducted back in 2012, in Damascus.
[10:45:00]
"The Intelligence: The Hunt for Austin Tice," you've tracked the diplomatic efforts since his disappearance. You also shed light on the
security apparatus during the Assad regime and its very, very complicated structure. That structure has now fallen apart.
And those who theoretically would have known Austin's location have either been swept out or in hiding.
How do you see this search continuing with the new government and the current complications that you and I have just been discussing on the
ground in Syria?
BROWNE: I mean, that's -- it's very difficult for them. I think, like, if you listen to what they're saying, finding Austin Tice and indeed other
Americans who have disappeared in Syria -- there's at least half a dozen others -- is a priority.
And I think they know how that can carry goodwill, especially with the Trump administration.
You know, that said, there are hundreds of thousands of Syrians missing, dead, disappeared, you know, so it's quite -- it's quite difficult for the
government in Damascus to put so much effort into finding Austin Tice, despite the kind of potential diplomatic rewards.
But I would say, I think, if the case of Austin Tice is going to be solved, it will probably be by non-state actors, private investigators, Austin's
family, even the media. And I think there's a window now, you know, this 50 years of dictatorship, where people were really afraid to even speak.
All of the investigations into Austin were pretty much done from afar. And they were relied on peculiar methods. And now, as I've been doing over the
last six months, you can actually get into the country or whether it's in Lebanon or in Baghdad, you know, places this investigation took me.
And you can sit down with those key officials from the Assad regime. And so we can move beyond hearsay and rumor and actually get cold, hard testimony.
And I think episode three of this podcast mini-series, which comes out on Saturday, there's a lot of that in there.
We're speaking to officials from the Assad regime with direct knowledge of Austin's case for the first time ever. And that's the window of
opportunity, which really could help, you know, solve what happened to Austin Tice.
ANDERSON: Understood. It's good to have you, Gareth. And the podcast a jolly good listen. Thank you.
We're back after this.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories that are on our radar right now. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD.
Iran's foreign minister says his country is open to indirect talks with the Trump administration but will not give up uranium enrichment. Abbas
Araghchi told FOX News that his country's nuclear program is peaceful and would remain so. Just last month, both Israel and the U.S. carried out
strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities.
A new study finds using smartphones before the age of 13 could damage children's mental health, possibly leading to suicidal thoughts, feelings
of low self-worth and detachment from reality, especially among girls.
[10:50:07]
The data is based on surveys of nearly 2 million people in 163 countries.
Well, the White House has removed "The Wall Street Journal" from the media pool that will accompany the president on an upcoming trip to Scotland. The
White House Correspondents Association says the move, quote, "defies the First Amendment."
President Trump sued the paper last week over a report about the president's ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
Stephen Colbert returns on air after news of his late show ending. We'll have an inside look at how that big announcement was made and his harsh
words to president Trump.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, CBS HOST: I'm going to go ahead and say it.
Cancel culture has gone too far.
(APPLAUSE)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Well, that was Stephen Colbert on the air for the first time after CBS announced that it is canceling his show next year,
"The Late Show." There has been a ton of reaction, even from U.S. president Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLBERT: On Friday, Donald Trump posted, "I absolutely love that Colbert got fired. His talent was even less than his ratings."
(BOOING)
COLBERT: Thank you.
How -- how dare you, sir?
Would an untalented man be able to compose the following satirical witticism?
Go fuck yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, a person close to the host told CNN that this was, quote, "a casualty of the merger," the merger being CBS parent company Paramount
and Skydance Media, which has filed for government approval of the merger.
The father of Skydance, founder David Ellison, is a longtime friend and supporter of president Trump. Well, Paramount also entered into a $16
million settlement agreement with the president over an interview on "60 Minutes."
Stephen Colbert was vocal and critical of this settlement, as he has been of the president for a long time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLBERT: As many of you know, of course, Governor Bush was the governor of Florida for eight years. And you would think that that much exposure to
oranges and crazy people would have prepared him for Donald Trump.
Evidently not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that was Colbert's first late show in 2015 and the first of many Donald Trump jokes.
CBS says the cancellation was, quote, "a purely financial decision."
And it is true that the financial model of late night TV in the United States, at least, is not the income source that it once was. Other networks
like NBC scaling back on their late night offerings, trimming "The Tonight Show" with Jimmy Fallon back to four new episodes a week instead of five.
Well, one of our own show producers actually happened to be in the audience for this now historic moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLBERT: Next year will be our last season. The network will be ending the late show in May and ...
ANDERSON (voice-over): Our producer, Michelle, in the little red circle just next to his left shoulder, you can probably hear some of her booing in
there. She describes the moment as a somber shock wave to the audience. Well, Colbert taped the announcement at the end of the show so he wouldn't
cast a cloud over the whole hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:55:06]
ANDERSON: The show taped another cold open, which did not air and was later replaced by his announcement. Stephen Colbert seemed like he had
something to say. The host thanked CBS for the past 10 years and the beautiful theater he worked in but said he was most thankful for his team,
a crew of 200 people who work on the show.
They shared some sorrowful moments after the taping and Colbert shared a kiss with his wife, Evelyn, who was also in the audience. You heard a
little less cheering and more of a somber sense in the audience after that. His show is set to come to an end in May.
And that is the end of this show, at least for just today. We'll be back tomorrow. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up next.
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