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Netanyahu to Urge "Full Conquest" of Gaza; U.S. House Speaker Visits West Bank; A 12-Year-Old Palestinian Girl's Quest to Find Food in Gaza; U.S. May Impose Secondary Sanctions on India and China; Texas House Authorizes Civil Arrest Warrants for Democrats Who Fled State; House Oversight Committee Subpoenas DOJ for Epstein Files; U.K.-France Deal Sees the Return of Some Migrants; Paris Apartments at Bargain Prices if Someone Dies. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired August 05, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD.
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hello. Welcome to the second hour of our show. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London.
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu will urge his security cabinet to vote for a full conquest of Gaza as ceasefire talks reach an impasse.
The Kremlin has denounced the United States for pressuring India to cut oil imports from Russia. This as the U.S. envoy is expected to arrive in Moscow
tomorrow.
And victims of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein are calling out the DOJ for using them as part of their political warfare as the Department of
Justice is looking to release some grand jury testimony.
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MACFARLANE: We start with today's critical meeting of Israel's security cabinet, called by prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu to urge, according to
Israeli media reports, a full conquest of Gaza.
This meeting, coming as a source tells CNN, the Israeli defense establishment opposes an expansion of ground operations in areas where the
hostages are believed to be held. Last hour, I spoke to CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman about that and the potential impact
of a full Israeli takeover of Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, in fact, that pressure is coming from the highest levels within the Israeli government
itself. We understand that the Chief of Staff is not happy about this planet. What does it mean to reconquer Gaza?
Does this mean an occupation?
This obviously means that the lives of the hostages of the approximately 20 who are believed to still be alive could be at risk. That's a major concern
of the relatives of those hostages. Plus, the fact that any such operation would incur massive civilian casualties.
Already, the number of dead in Gaza, according to the Ministry of Health there has topped 61,000 almost 20,000 of them children and expanded
military operation of the kind that we believe Prime Minister Netanyahu is pondering would involve massive additional casualties.
On top of that, we understand that the Israeli army is exhausted after 22 months of this war. And that exhaustion can be seen in the fact, for
instance, that in the month of July, seven Israeli soldiers who had served in Gaza committed suicide. So there does seem to be rising opposition to
this idea.
But Prime Minister Netanyahu, as we've seen in reporting on CNN, "The New York Times" and other places, has had the opportunity time and time again
to bring this war to an end but he continues to pursue it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, your security correspondent, Kylie Atwood, is joining me now.
And Kylie, at a time when tensions between Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump are becoming increasingly frayed over the war in Gaza, what effect is
an expanded military operation like this likely to have?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's a really good question and it's not one that we have a clear insight into at this moment.
The Trump administration, top administration officials haven't yet responded to these reports that prime minister Netanyahu is going to push
for this full conquest of Gaza. We do know, of course, that, over the weekend, Steve Witkoff visited with the families of hostages still held by
Hamas and Israel.
And in his conversations with them, he did say that the United States was going to shift its approach, trying to bring a ceasefire and a release of
that hostage -- release of the hostages to less of a piecemeal approach and to an all-or-nothing approach, effectively trying to draw an end to the war
decisively.
And also to bring back all 50 hostages simultaneously. We don't know exactly what the tactics, what the playbook, what the plan is, to actually
follow through on what he said to those hostage families.
And we should note that the hostage families themselves have fully rejected this idea of expanding the war in Gaza. So we don't know, really, if the
Trump administration believes that an all-or-nothing approach would see eye-to-eye with prime minister Netanyahu pushing for this full conquest of
the Gaza Strip.
[10:05:04]
And it does come on the heels of tension between president Trump and prime minister Netanyahu. Obviously, we have reported they have a dynamic, a
complicated relationship.
They were seeing eye-to-eye, working very closely together when the United States was supporting Israel in those strikes against Iran's nuclear
program, carrying out U.S. strikes simultaneously.
But we have seen in recent weeks that tension come back to the fore, Israel carrying out strikes in Syria. We have also seen president Trump say that
there is starvation happening in Gaza right now while prime minister Netanyahu has said there is not.
And it's very clear that the Trump administration does want to get more humanitarian support into Gaza. But effectively, what they're doing behind
the scenes to actually pressure Israel to allow more of that humanitarian support in right now isn't exactly clear.
So there are a lot of open questions. We're trying to get to sources here in Washington to get some clarity. But Steve Witkoff, we should note,
Trump's special envoy for the Middle East, is also headed to Russia tomorrow.
So all eyes are going to be shifting, at least in the short term here, to what's going to happen when it comes to the war in Ukraine.
MACFARLANE: All right, Kylie, we'll keep an eye out for any response from the White House. In the meantime, thank you.
I want to bring in CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier.
Kim, thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure you were listening to Kylie there and Ben before her. I mean, if this move does equal an occupation, it
is going to be very unpopular within Israel.
I mean, only at the weekend we saw thousands demonstrating to end the war. It's hard to see how this would help the hostages. And as Ben was saying,
Israel's military are exhausted, moving to reduce the size of their troops.
Can you just talk to us about the coalition of resistance there would be to this?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, the majority of the hostage families, which are represented in something called The Hostage
Forum, have rejected this, though there is a minority among the families that does want an expansion of military occupation of Gaza.
The majority of the Israeli public in multiple polls have said enough is enough. The security establishment has been saying privately, you know, we
have diminishing returns from Gaza in what we can accomplish.
We've taken out most of the Hamas leadership. We've decimated most of its ranks. Now we're into a counterinsurgency where, every time you run a
military operation, you end up alienating more of the population, catching civilians in the crossfire and therefore creating more enemies than you're
taking off the battlefield.
So those are some of the arguments against this. Also, a Gaza City where the Israeli Defense Forces think many of the hostages are being held, it's
got tunnels underneath it where, you know, yes, the Israelis could try to go in and find the hostages in those tunnels, the 20, roughly 20 that are
believed to still be alive.
But every time they've done that in the past, the captors have killed the hostages before the Israelis could get there. So that's the fear, that you
might end up with all of the hostages dead.
MACFARLANE: Yes. So let's talk about why Benjamin Netanyahu is doing this. I mean, as we know, he leads a minority government of hardline members who
want to control Gaza permanently. Talk to us about what's at stake for him if he does not agree to their terms.
DOZIER: Yes. Right now he's got a very slim majority in the Knesset, in the Israeli parliament, because two of the ultra religious parties left his
coalition because he was moving toward accepting a law that would draft Haredi or ultra religious students into the IDF.
The IDF, of course, as Ben and Kylie both mentioned, has been deploying and deploying active duty and reservists, so its troops are tired and they need
replenishment. So that is how Netanyahu ended up with this very small coalition.
That means he really needs the two ultra nationalist parties to stay in his coalition. And they both want to take over Gaza and the West Bank, take it
back.
MACFARLANE: We have seen U.S. delegations in Israel and Gaza in recent days. We saw Witkoff meeting with hostage families just this week and House
Speaker Johnson meeting with settler families in the West Bank, during which he said something highly controversial. I'll just read it out here.
He said that, "The Bible teaches us that the hills of Judea and Samaria were promised to the Jewish people. And they are yours by right."
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Kim, what does that tell us about where the U.S. government would stand on any of this, especially a conquest?
DOZIER: Yes, that has really disturbed former U.S. officials who've worked on this problem for a long time, because they think it sends a green light
to the settler community that, yes, the West Bank will one day be yours and possibly Gaza, too.
There's been a lot of settler violence against Palestinians, more than 700 attacks just this year, according to the U.N., and including a Palestinian
American killed. That's something that U.S. officials in the Trump administration have called for investigation of.
But all in all, what it means is that you've got a very senior U.S. official backing this very controversial movement and sending, what a lot
of people who want a Palestinian state and ultimately peace, think is the wrong message.
That, you know, it's OK to keep fighting for all of this contested territory and to stick with your policy of no to a Palestinian state.
MACFARLANE: Kim, the sadness of this is that, two weeks ago, we were more or less kind of closer to a ceasefire being agreed. But now, obviously,
Hamas have hardened their line, refusing to disarm, to give up power.
I just wanted to ask you if you felt the support for the two-state solution, that we've seen from the likes of France, the U.K. and Canada,
has made it now harder or easier to seek that ceasefire?
DOZIER: I think those declarations, while giving psychological support to the Palestinian people, have hardened the Israeli position, though it's
hard to see it getting much tougher than it already is.
I do have to add, though, that the Qataris, the Egyptians and the Turks are still working on talks with Hamas, trying to use this hard line position of
Israel and the White House to get Hamas to say yes to some compromise deal, like the phased approach that they walked away from a few weeks ago.
MACFARLANE: All right, Kim, always great to have your analysis on CNN. We appreciate your time. Thank you.
For weeks now, we've seen harrowing images of Palestinians starving in Gaza. And the desperate search for food, it's particularly difficult for
Gaza's children. CNN has been following the story of one of them, a young girl named Jana, along with her family. Abeer Salman updates us now on
their daily struggle to survive.
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ABEER SALMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the summer heat, the walk to the soup kitchen gets longer and more tiring, especially with the lack
of food. Parents here say they are keeping their children indoors, no play or any movement that could sap the little energy they have.
Everyone is exhausted. The choices for children like Jana are to wait at the back or get squashed at the front.
JANA, PRETEEN GAZAN: (Speaking foreign language).
SALMAN (voice-over): She says they haven't eaten since yesterday. Most people here are clamoring for their only meal of the day.
The soup kitchen might not be open tomorrow or the day after. It's already serving much less food than months before. And there is no guarantee
everyone here would get a serving of soup and carry it back.
The blisters and scars tell of how many times boiling soup has burned these hands, stoking disappointment and frustration among the weakest in the
crowd. Returning home with a bowl of lentil soup is an achievement, no matter how small.
JANA, PRETEEN GAZAN: (Speaking foreign language).
SALMAN (voice-over): We first met Jana in May, when she stepped up to take care of her ailing parents and siblings after an Israeli soldier shot her
brother dead.
Back then, Israel had just ended a total blockade of Gaza that lasted 2.5 months. Under international pressure, Israel has allowed a trickle of aid,
that remains out of reach for families like Jana's, who cannot fight over aid trucks or afford to buy the looted food.
They've grown weaker over the past two months, like those around them in Gaza City, where the U.N. says the famine threshold for acute malnutrition
has been reached. And like thousands of children across Gaza, these kids, too, have visited clinics due to malnutrition several times. Jana's mother
fears for her daughter's life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).
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SALMAN (voice-over): Jana feels the weight of this responsibility to keep her family alive.
JANA: (Speaking foreign language).
SALMAN (voice-over): Abeer Salman, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: The U.S. is ramping up pressure on Russia's trading partners to stop them from buying Moscow's oil. The U.S. president says an
announcement could come in the next 24 hours. We'll have all the details on that after the break.
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MACFARLANE: President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, will arrive in Moscow on Wednesday.
That's two days before Mr. Trump's deadline for Russia to agree a peace deal with Ukraine or face more sanctions. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in
southern Ukraine, joining us now,
Nick, how are Ukrainians feeling about the hope of any progress this week?
Or is the feeling that this Witkoff trip is just more about optics?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it's important to hold out the possibility for some sudden last-minute
dealmaking but we seem exceptionally far away from that now.
Really, because of the positioning of the Kremlin here. Vladimir Putin, clearly emboldened by the relative success of his summer offensive that has
moved forward, not always at the incremental pace of past months but now putting his troops in a more strategic position along areas of the eastern
front line.
And the rhetoric coming from Moscow very much one of defiance. And that may be what they seek to maintain up until that deadline.
Is there a possibility that pressure on India, already touted by U.S. president Donald Trump, may have some kind of impact in the days ahead on
India's posturing?
It's possible. He just recently reiterated the idea of more tariffs against India for purchasing Russian oil. It's unclear if that's already had an
impact. There have been some suggestions India has changed its diet away from Russian oil over the past days or so.
But the key customer here, really, if there's going to be anything like damage to Russia's income -- and Trump today suggested that if they take
another $10 off the price of oil, that could really damage the Russian economy.
He said the Russian economy, quote, "stinks" at the moment and they simply couldn't afford the war. I paraphrase there. If the oil price sunk further,
unless China's purchases are somehow dented by any kind of secondary sanctions that I'm sure many in Ukraine will feel that this moment to be
tough on Moscow has passed president Trump by.
But a lot of concern building ahead of Friday.
[10:20:00]
Particularly for what it might mean for the nightly aerial assaults that many Ukrainians fear and endure every single night. And, of course, too,
for what it means for Trump's apparent conversion over the past months, having tried diplomacy, proximity to the Kremlins narratives.
And now being tougher on Russia, do we actually see a real impact from these secondary sanctions in the next 48 hours? Christina.
MACFARLANE: And you mentioned the ramping up of rhetoric but also other moves as well. We saw the repositioning of the nuclear subs close to Russia
just a few days ago. That added to the tariffs, you do get the feeling that there is an advancement of pressure building toward this deadline.
What is at stake here, though, for president Trump, who, to all intents, is now owning this war, even though he tried to distance himself from it?
WALSH: Yes, he's always called this Biden's war, something he inherited. Obviously, it's a war that Vladimir Putin started. Many assess it to be
essentially his conflict that he's put his existential presidency upon.
But I think he faces a real problem now, president Trump, in that he has taken this significant 90- or 180-degree turn in his course in terms of
relations with Russia. It's quite clear that diplomacy is not going to stop the war. Certainly for now, in terms of Russia's sense of progress on the
battlefield.
And so Trump has to apply meaningful pressure. Now, if he chooses, in the next two or three days to take a softer off-ramp, let's say, for example,
only pressuring or putting tariffs against India and leaving China more or less alone.
He's been suggesting recently, too, that he hopes a deal with China over trade with them is closer, even though he might meet president Xi Jinping
if a deal is done in the months ahead.
To enter the next few days, with pressuring India, a U.S. ally and leaving the main bankroller and supporter of Russia more or less alone, that would
significantly undermine any notion of toughness behind the secondary sanctions.
And it would probably make Moscow feel they've got something of a pass here. And again, question the toughness of the United States going forward,
look, remember, we can talk about potential diplomacy sanctions.
But it's really the pain to Russia's bank balance that will alter its calculations on the front line. And those calculations over the past weeks
have looked pretty good. And they're likely to improve in the weeks ahead, too. Ukraine is in trouble with manpower, doesn't have the weapons it
always necessarily needs.
It's remarkably resilient and enduring but I think is now facing a Russian ascendancy militarily, which may end up, in the weeks and months ahead,
significantly changing the character of the front line. And that will alter what choices Trump essentially has, what choices Europe have going forward.
And so we're into a definitive 72 hours here, in which essentially the White House have to prove how tough they're willing to be against the
Kremlin or accept that much of this is going to be out of their control. Christina.
MACFARLANE: Nick, I appreciate you being with us there from southern Ukraine, as Nick Paton Walsh.
Well, the U.S. president is threatening to raise tariffs on India, as we've been hearing, there, very substantially over the next 24 hours.
And speaking to CNBC earlier, Mr. Trump said he isn't happy with India continuing to purchase Russian oil and indirectly helping fund Russia's war
effort.
The U.S. has previously announced its intentions to put tariffs on countries that buy Russian energy and Mr. Trump spoke about the impact he's
hoping U.S. sanctions will have on Russia's oil market.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: If energy goes down low enough, Putin's going to stop killing people. That will be nice, even though they're his
own people that are dying, him and Ukraine. But Putin will stop killing people if you get energy down another $10 a barrel. He's going to have no
choice because his economy stinks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Anna Cooban is joining me to discuss.
MACFARLANE: And just added to what we we're hearing from president Trump there, Nick saying earlier that Trump had also said that $10 off the price
of oil could really damage the Russian economy.
What do we know about the real, meaningful impact this could have on Russia?
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Russia's government revenues are a large part of that is made up of its energy
exports. And so if you essentially discourage China and India, huge buyers of Russian oil, from doing so by making it prohibitively expensive, then
you lower the demand for Russia's oil.
And therefore the price will come with it, the idea being that Russia will then have essentially less money to continue prosecuting its war in Ukraine
and by economic necessity, Trump therefore pushes Putin toward the negotiating table. So that's the logic behind Trump's threats.
MACFARLANE: And how would this play out against the U.S.?
Because we know that this -- any sanctions on Russia, on Russia -- or, sorry, on India, on China, would certainly roil global markets.
But would it have a direct impact on U.S. markets, too?
COOBAN: Well, that's the irony of this, is that, if you raise tariffs, these secondary sanctions are essentially tariffs on goods imported into
the U.S. You then essentially raise the end price for consumers for many products.
And for a president that's made fighting inflation and pressuring the Fed to cut interest rates a key part of his mandate, that's pretty
counterproductive. And the U.S. as well, with its oil price.
[10:25:00]
It's a major oil producer, oil exporter but it still imports oil. And so if you essentially reduce the overall supply of global oil, therefore push up
the price, you'll see U.S. consumers paying more for their oil, too.
MACFARLANE: All right. Anna, for now, thank you.
Let's turn to Nigel Gould-Davies, who is the former U.K. ambassador to Belarus. He is the senior fellow for Russia and Eurasia at the
International Institute for Strategic Studies. He joins us now live from London.
Thank you so much for your time. I just want to begin with the events happening this week in Russia. It does feel as though, you know, Donald
Trump is becoming more and more drawn into this war that he wanted to be over in a day.
And now he kind of owns it, as Nick was alluding to there earlier. He went from pausing the military aid to Ukraine to threatening nuclear force
against Russia within a month. And there has been a substantial hardening of rhetoric.
I just want to get your thoughts on what progress, if any, you think we might see this week as we march toward that Friday deadline.
NIGEL GOULD-DAVIES, SENIOR FELLOW FOR RUSSIA AND EURASIA, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: You're absolutely right. This has been an
astonishing, fluid moment in the diplomacy of this war.
Donald Trump returning to the White House, bending over backwards to see things from Russia's point of view, giving Russia carrots, threatening
Ukraine with sticks in order to try to bring about a ceasefire.
That theory of peace failed and president Trump's response has been not to walk away, not to move on, not to turn his back on trying to end the war
but by taking the opposite view, which is to try to end the war now by pressuring Russia in a way that I think has surprised everyone.
It is interesting that, although he has described it as Biden's war, he remains committed, actively committed, to investing diplomatic capital to
try to end it. And now we have this extraordinary situation, where he has issued an ultimatum to Putin for the first time.
He then shortened it. So we have this drum roll for the next few days. And so a slow game of chicken, these two, these two resistant, increasingly
opposed leaders, colliding to a point of incompatibility.
What will happen?
Who will swerve?
The consequences for Russia could be very serious if Donald Trump at last makes good on his threats.
MACFARLANE: Yes. And on those secondary sanctions and to your earlier point, I think one who has been surprised by how they've been drawn into
this war.
Is India over, you know, the imposition or the threat of those secondary tariffs. I want to ask you, because a White House aide, Stephen Miller, has
accused India of, quote, "financing" Russia's war in Ukraine.
Just how accurate that is and if India are being unjustly targeted, because we know that there are, as Nick was saying earlier, others who import way
more from Russia.
GOULD-DAVIES: That's right. So the sanctions that the West and its partners began to impose on Russia after the February 2022 invasion have
led to a far-reaching reorientation of Russia's trade.
And it has switched, in particular its oil exports, the lifeblood of the Russian economy, away from Europe toward China even more than before and
dramatically toward India.
Exports to India have risen forty-fold. Now a proportion of that -- of those exports were then refined by India and reexported to Europe. So
there's been a problem there, that the E.U., with its latest sanctions package, is trying to address.
But yes, India is in effect complicit. It's taken advantage of the fact that Russia needs new outlets for its oil. But India's role in sustaining
Russia in Russia's war is dwarfed by China.
Now China is described by NATO as, quote, "the decisive enabler" of Russia's war on Ukraine. It's not only a matter of the oil that China
imports but also the ways that China abets sanctions evasion in favor of China, in favor of Russia, and increasingly is supplying large quantities
of dual-use capable components and machinery to Russia.
So if one is looking for an economic enabler of Russia, it would seem that the first target should be China rather than India.
MACFARLANE: What is the danger of a peace deal being pushed down the road now, even by just a few weeks, given what is happening on the battlefield
right now, where Russia are pushing for the takeover of strategic towns, of strategic centers as part of that summer offensive?
[10:30:06]
GOULD-DAVIES: I think Putin is, of course, discomfited and uncertain about what might transpire over the next few days when president Trump's deadline
falls due. But he -- they won't fundamentally change his calculus.
He does, in the larger scheme of things, feel confident, remain confident about his ability to win the war on his terms and not to achieve a
ceasefire. This is really fundamental. This is the flaw at the heart, I'm afraid, of Mr. Witkoff's diplomacy in Moscow, fundamentally misjudging what
Russia's calculus is.
Putin places such a high priority on the ultimate goal of victory over Ukraine is a historical psychological obsession, that the only thing that's
more important to Putin than achieving that is ensuring the survival and stability of his own regime at home.
And that's why oil becomes so important. Oil is the Achilles heel of the Russian economy. And we've seen, historically, every time Russia's
hydrocarbon revenues fall fast and drastically, the Russian economy and Russian politics are changed.
That was true in 1988. It was true in 1998. It was true in 2008. Let's see if it could be true in 2025.
MACFARLANE: Yes. That's great context, Nigel. Really appreciate you joining us. Thank you.
GOULD-DAVIES: Thank you.
MACFARLANE: The U.N. is reporting a 200 percent increase in child casualties in Ukraine between March and May this year. At least 222
children were killed or injured during that time period. April alone saw 97 children killed or wounded, making this the highest number of casualties
since 2022.
UNICEF calls the use of explosive weapons in populated areas particularly deadly and destructive. The agency says the destruction of infrastructure
not only impacts children now but those in the future.
All right, after the break, political warfare. That's what victims are calling a U.S. Justice Department move to unseal some of the grand jury
testimony in the Jeffrey Epstein case. That's next.
Plus, we're following closely the political battle in Texas that could determine who controls half of the U.S. Congress next year.
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MACFARLANE: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Christina Macfarlane. Here are your headlines.
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MACFARLANE (voice-over): Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is convening a meeting of the security cabinet today.
[10:35:03]
To push for, according to Israeli media, a full conquest of Gaza. Negotiations to end the war have stalled out, with Hamas demanding improved
conditions in Gaza before resuming talks.
U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff will head to Moscow on Wednesday. The diplomatic trip comes just days ahead of president Trump's Friday deadline
for Russia to agree a peace deal with Ukraine. The U.S. has said it will impose additional sanctions on Russia and the buyers of its energy if no
agreement is reached.
The Texas state house is set to convene later today after Republican governor Greg Abbott ordered arrest warrants for Democratic lawmakers who
fled the state on Sunday. The Democratic left to deny Republicans the quorum necessary to vote on a redistribution -- redistricting plan.
That plan could allow Republicans to sway as many as five U.S. congressional House seats away from Democrats.
MACFARLANE: And we're turning now to a developing story. The U.S. House Oversight Committee has subpoenaed the Justice Department for the Epstein
files in a major move following Republicans calling for more transparency on the case.
This comes as the Trump administration is debating releasing a transcript of Ghislaine Maxwell's interview with the DOJ and as the department decides
whether to release transcripts from Epstein and Maxwell's grand jury testimonies.
But victims are pushing back, calling it, quote, "political warfare" and demanding their identities are protected. CNN's crime and justice
correspondent Katelyn Polantz has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Two victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell are writing to a judge in letters
filed in court yesterday. They're saying they want the same type of transparency that the Justice Department is advocating for.
But they also are very frustrated with how the Justice Department has handled transparency around the Epstein files.
Here is a quote from one of the victims' letters, writing to Judge Berman in the Southern District of New York, who is the person or one of the
judges who will be considering releasing grand jury transcripts, backing up the cases against Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, the criminal cases
that ultimately, one, went to trial against Maxwell.
One victim writes, "I come forward to you today in disdain, disgust and fear of how the United States of America's DOJ has handled the promise to
release the Epstein files. I am not some pawn in your political warfare. What you have done and continue to do is eating at me day after day as you
help to perpetuate this story indefinitely."
This victim and a second victim writing to the court they want transparency around these files, these grand jury transcripts, that the court is now
considering to release. It's five days of grand jury testimony, summaries from agents that investigated the case.
And that grand jury transcript would back up what eventually went to trial when Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of sex trafficking of minors and other
crimes.
The second victim here, though, she or the victim, is very unhappy with how the Justice Department has handled some of this, saying that there are
high-profile people that appear to be wanting to be protected more than the victims in this case.
And that she is asking the judge to appoint a third-party person to review these grand jury transcripts to make sure that no victims' names or
likenesses will be released. That's very much in line with what the Justice Department is asking here.
But a reminder that the grand jury transcripts that are at issue in court, the judge is considering releasing here, they are only a small sliver of
the entirety of the Epstein files. So you can see the frustration over this political debate, not just the debate in court.
It continues on with these victims speaking up to the judge now, as there is the possibility of a little bit more transparency around the court case
here, though the Justice Department says there's not much that's going to be learned if and when these grand jury transcripts would be released --
back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Our thanks to Katelyn for that.
Now all eyes on the state capital in Texas, where lawmakers are set to convene in the coming hours. But not everyone is expected to attend.
Today's session comes just a day after Republican governor Greg Abbott ordered arrest warrants for Democratic lawmakers who fled the state on
Sunday. The Democrats say they left in order to block a vote on congressional redistricting that could allow Republicans to take as many as
five U.S. House seats away from Democrats.
Republican lawmakers in Texas and across the U.S. have been under intense pressure from president Donald Trump to revamp district lines in an attempt
to flip Democratic seats in their favor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's all gerrymandering and we have an opportunity in Texas to pick up five seats. We have a really good governor and we have good people in
Texas. And I won Texas. I got the highest vote in the history of Texas, as you probably know. And we are entitled to five more seats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:40:00]
MACFARLANE: Let's bring in CNN political senior reporter Stephen Collinson back with us.
And, Stephen, I mean, this really is moving at a pace, this story.
Now can you just take a step back and talk to us about the national consequences of the Texas showdown and what impact all of this might have
on Capitol Hill?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So here's why this is so important.
Democrats need three seats in a net pickup in the midterm elections next year to take control of the House of Representatives. So you can see, if
Republicans suddenly find another five seats that they're likely to win in Texas, that means the Democrats need eight seats.
And that makes their task, in a very evenly-divided country, even more difficult. And the reason they want to control the House is because that
would be one of the few constraints on the runaway presidency of Donald Trump.
So this is a Texas issue and it's going national. Democrats have decided to start playing Trump at his own game. People -- or the governor, for
example, in California, is saying, well, we're going to withdraw -- redraw our maps and we're going to get five seats for Democrats.
And this could steamroll across the country with more Democratic and Republican states trying to join in and create chaos ahead of the election.
I think what Democrats are trying to do is to get Republicans to back down in Texas by threatening Republican seats elsewhere. But I think globally,
it's a picture of a country that's deeply divided and where all the normal -- norms of political behavior in a democratic system are starting to break
down.
Normally, redistricting of seats takes place every 10 years after a census. This is right in the middle of that cycle. And Trump has precipitated this
because he's so openly and bluntly said, I'm just going to find some more seats elsewhere. And this is a president, after all, who tried to subvert
the will of voters already, once, after the 2020 election.
MACFARLANE: Stephen, this is a bit of a pivot but I just want to get your thoughts on this, because while Republicans are scrambling for more seats,
one of their key voices, Marjorie Taylor Greene, has just given an interview to the "Daily Mail," saying that she doesn't feel connected to
the Republican Party anymore. I have a quote of what she said here.
She said, "I don't know what the hell happened with the Republican Party but I can tell you one thing. The course that it's on, I don't want to have
anything to do with it and I just don't care anymore."
I mean, historically, she has been one of the most prominent voices in the MAGA movement.
So what does this signify, Stephen?
COLLINSON: Yes, it's interesting because, recently, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, as you say, was one of the most vociferous Trump supporters
before the last election. She also broke with the administration on Gaza, saying that the scenes of starvation there were unacceptable.
And she was also an early critic of the Trump administration's failure to release the Epstein files. So it seems, at least in her personal political
journey, she's putting some distance between herself and the rest of the party.
What exactly it means for the Republican Party as a whole, I think, is more uncertain. It doesn't seem to me that there is any sense in which Trump's
supporters are turning against him.
But I think one thing that is worth watching is whether people, who have long supported Donald Trump, are now starting to get frustrated with the
party as a whole and not necessarily the president.
And they're drawing a distinction because, typically -- and this will count in the midterm elections -- when Republicans vote and Donald Trump is not
on the ballot, there are a lot less enthusiastic than they are when he is on the ballot. And I think that is what Democrats are counting on next
year. And perhaps this is an early sign of that.
MACFARLANE: Yes, very interesting. Perhaps early start early moves toward a dissatisfaction with the traditional party structures. Stephen, as
always, appreciate your insight on this. Thank you.
All right. Still ahead, law enforcement is scouring the Montana wilderness for a suspect in a deadly bar shooting coming up. Why some say the terrain
in the area will make finding the wanted Army veteran a difficult task.
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[10:45:00]
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MACFARLANE: Authorities in the U.S. state of Montana are searching the area around a national forest for an Army veteran suspected in the shooting
deaths of four people inside a bar, where those who know the area say there are thousands of places for Michael Paul Brown to hide. CNN's Josh Campbell
reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For a fourth day, authorities scoured the rugged Montana wilderness by land and air,
searching for a suspected mass shooter.
AUSTIN KNUDSEN, MONTANA ATTORNEY GENERAL: We've got a lot of expertise and a lot of knowledge of the area. We've got every cabin, every hunting site
that's known up there pinned. And there was a -- there is a tremendous number of assets focused on searching that area.
DAN BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT, BOZEMAN, MONTANA: One of the restrictions is the size of the state of the state.
CAMPBELL (voice-over): The mountainous terrain and vast wildlands in this remote part of the state are offering their own challenges.
BRUNNER: So that's a lot of land and a lot -- not a lot of people. So there's not a lot of civilians that will be looking out their window,
looking for a suspicious person. This man could easily hide for multiple, multiple weeks if he had resources prepared for himself.
CAMPBELL (voice-over): The suspect, who officials believe is, quote, "well armed and extremely dangerous," is 45-year-old Michael Paul Brown, seen
shirtless and shoeless on security footage fleeing The Owl Bar on Friday morning.
Authorities say Brown lived next door to the bar and was a frequent patron. He was last seen driving a white Ford F-150 pickup that they say was later
found abandoned.
KNUDSEN: It was a stolen vehicle but there was camping equipment in it. We believe there was some clothing in it. So we, at this point, we have every
reason to believe the suspect is fully clothed, shoes on his feet, able to get around.
CAMPBELL (voice-over): As the search continues, new details about the suspect are emerging. Brown served in the Army from January 2001 to May
2005 and was part of an armored vehicle crew.
He was deployed to Iraq from February 2004 to March 2005, later joining the Montana National Guard for just under three years, leaving military service
as a sergeant.
Brown's niece telling CNN in a Facebook message that he struggled with mental health in the Army and wasn't the same after his service, noting his
condition worsened after his parents died.
The Army declined to release information about Brown's mental health history, citing policy and privacy constraints.
KNUDSEN: This is an unstable individual who walked in and murdered four people in cold blood for no reason whatsoever. So there absolutely is
concern for the public.
CAMPBELL (voice-over): A town now on edge and in mourning for four lives lost in the mass shooting, including Nancy Kelley, who recently retired
from a career as a nurse working with cancer patients -- Josh Campbell, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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MACFARLANE (voice-over): Well, let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories that are on our radar right now.
Tennessee police have arrested a suspect in the killing of an abandoned baby's relatives. Austin Robert Drummond was found after a weekend manhunt.
Police say he killed four relatives of the baby who was found alive in the sweltering heat. Drummond was caught in a wooded area after he was spotted
by nearby residents.
A new deal between the U.K. and France will allow for the return of migrants within days. The "one in, one out" pilot scheme will see France
accept the return of undocumented people arriving on small boats in exchange for the U.K. accepting an equal number of legitimate asylum
seekers.
[10:50:08]
More than 700 wildfires are raging across Canada, including this one in Newfoundland. The fires have forced thousands of evacuations and caused
hazardous air quality for millions. This year, more than 4,000 wildfires have scorched 6.7 million hectares of land in Canada, forestry officials
say.
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MACFARLANE: It is part of real estate, part roulette. Homeowners in Paris sell their home while buyers await their death. More on the unusual
property scheme when we come back.
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MACFARLANE: Welcome back.
A zoo in Denmark is asking people to donate any unwanted pets to feed to its captive predators. The Aalborg Zoo is asking for unwanted guinea pigs,
rabbits, chickens and even small horses, not for a new petting zoo but to feed its hungry predators. The zoo posted that it's trying to imitate the
natural food chain of the animals.
Zoo officials say they are looking for small pets that are healthy but need to be put down for a variety of reasons. They promise to euthanize the pets
before feeding time.
I think that is the least they can do. Goodness me, that -- anyway, the less I think about that, the better.
Now dream apartments in Paris are available for bargain prices but there's a catch. The seller has to die for the transaction to take place but not
before the buyer goes all in. CNN's Saskya Vandoorne explains how it works.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: On the day that Andre dies, will you be pleased that you'll be able to move in?
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Buying an apartment in Paris isn't cheap but there's a quirky, slightly morbid loophole that could land you one at half
the price. You're essentially betting on how long the seller is going to stick around.
It's known as "viager."
ILYA (ph), APARTMENT OWNER: I have a lot of time in front of me.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Ilya (ph) was hoping to finally buy a dream home in Paris. After nearly a year of searching, she found a gorgeous, South-
facing place for half the price of the others.
ILYA (ph): And I think it's really well-arranged.
ANDRE HELMAN, APARTMENT SELLER: For such a small apartment, it's exceptional.
VANDOORNE: This place is owned by Andre, who has no intention of moving out.
HELMAN: I needed the money and I needed the place. So this system allowed me to stay here as long as I wanted and get the money I needed.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): To buy Andre's apartment, Ilya gave him a single deposit in the range of 200,000 euros.
HELMAN: Once a year, there is a party here, the neighbors' party. It's very pleasant.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): But in a typical "viager," a buyer pays an upfront sum and then small monthly payments to the seller, who keeps living in the
home until they die.
"Viager" sales make up just 1 percent of the French property market. But interest surged during COVID. And it's not just locals rolling the dice.
More and more foreign buyers are getting in on the gamble, too.
Homa Ravel, an American Iranian, already has four "viager" homes for her kids and she's eyeing her first.
HOMA RAVEL, APARTMENT OWNER: I think in the beginning, friends and family were like, oh, really?
You got involved with that?
But this is helping the person. Like, I mean, this is a comfortable situation for them.
[10:55:00]
VANDOORNE (voice-over): But it's quite a bet. The longer the seller lives, the more you end up paying. And that upfront discount starts to shrink.
VANDOORNE: And you're comfortable with it being a gamble?
HELMAN: Oh, quite. After my death, I really don't worry about myself. The gamble is mainly for the -- the owner.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): It's all remarkably transparent. Listings don't just include the seller's age. They often estimate their life expectancy,
too.
Most cases are uneventful. But in one instance, a buyer was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in a case involving a Madeleine and the death of
an elderly seller.
VANDOORNE: So does it take a special type of person or a special type of mindset to accept the "viager" system?
HELMAN: Because of the death issue. I think that's why people feel uncomfortable. It's not my case. I'm -- as I said, I'm very lucky.
HELMAN (from captions): I'm really happy to have met you like this. I'm delighted.
HELMAN: For me, death is not an issue. It's just the end of life and it's OK.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Saskya Vandoorne, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: It's a complex one, isn't it?
I still don't quite know how I feel about it. But he looks happy enough.
All right, that is it for this edition of CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up after this quick break.
END
