Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

RFK Junior to Testify as Calls Grow for his Resignations; Lawmakers Press for Vote to Compel Release of More Docs; Inside Mosul's Reconstruction after the Reign of ISIS; Fashion Designer Giorgio Armani has Died, at 91-Years-Old; Investors Rattled by Latest Possible Twist in Trump Tariff Saga. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired September 04, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well critics call him a threat to America's health. How will RFK Jr. respond today when he faces questions

from U.S. senators? It is 09:00 a.m. in Washington, 05:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi. You're watching "Connect the World". I'm Becky Anderson.

Also coming up, a coalition of unity. Top European leaders hold talks over Ukraine's security as momentum to end the war with Russia stalls. Plus,

Portugal in mourning after an iconic cable carriage derail in Lisbon. An investigation there is underway. Jeffrey Epstein's victims speaking out and

threatening to release their own list of names if the White House won't.

Well, stock market in New York opens about 30 minutes from now. Indices looking for direction this morning, ahead of the U.S. jobs report for

August that will be out on Friday. Recent numbers suggest the labor market is cooling. More on that at 09:30 local time.

Well next hour, President Trump's Health Secretary is expected to face intense grilling in the U.S. Senate. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will testify

before the Senate Finance Committee today, a day after more than 1000 current and former health and human services employees sent him a letter

accusing him of endangering public health.

They are demanding his resignation. Well, it's a near certainty Kennedy will be asked to explain the firing of Susan Monarez, a CDC, Director, just

weeks after the U.S. Senate confirmed her to her post. Well, I want to bring in CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell.

Meg, Kennedy under a lot of scrutiny over his vaccine stance, amongst other things. Tell us more about that and there's news on vaccine mandates, as I

understand it, coming from Florida. What do we know at this point?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Becky, so much is happening, and really what we are seeing from states, you just alluded to Florida,

we're also seeing the opposite move by West Coast states is sort of a crumbling of the federal tying together of health policy, especially when

it comes to vaccines.

And that is under the leadership of Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has a history of being an anti-vaccine advocate before he was appointed

into this role by President Trump. And just minutes ago, we heard directly from CDC Director Dr. Susan Monarez, who was just fired last week by

Kennedy and the White House in a Wall Street Journal op-ed, where she said in her own words some of the things we and others have been reporting about

why she was ousted under Kennedy.

She said that she was pressured. She was told, quote, to pre approve the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel, newly filled with people who

have publicly expressed anti vaccine rhetoric. These are picks from Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who dismissed the entire 17-member panel

of this outside advisory committee to the CDC on vaccines, and he put in these new advisors.

So, there's a meeting coming up in a few weeks of that group where they're expected to take votes that will affect the childhood vaccine schedule. And

so, there is real urgency now to this hearing today, where we are going to see senators who just confirmed that CDC Director about a month ago about

what their oversight is going to be for all that's happened at the CDC and what's going to happen going forward, Becky.

ANDERSON: It's going to be a big day for the secretary. Just explain to me how partisan you believe this questioning is likely to be. I mean, there

are circumstances where we are seeing Republicans, for example, breaking ranks over certain policies pursued by this Trump Administration, and

breaking ranks over to a degree those who have been put in positions of power. Are we likely to see that today?

TIRRELL: What we've seen some clues so far that there may be more intense questioning from the Republican side of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., than perhaps

we've seen before. From the Democrat side, we are already seeing calls for his resignation or his firing, also from an independent Bernie Sanders.

From the Republican side, a lot of eyes will be on Senator Bill Cassidy, who is himself a physician and the Chair of the Health Committee.

[09:05:00]

He's also on this Finance Committee, which is having the hearing today. He cast a key vote to confirm Robert F. Kennedy Jr., but not before he

expressed his own reservations about Kennedy's vaccine stances. Now we'll have to see exactly how he brings that to bear today, but there's also some

hints that some other Republican senators want questions answered about the CDC Director that they just confirmed themselves.

They voted for her. And President Trump and Kennedy nominated her, and so that's why there is so much tension going on today in this hearing.

ANDERSON: It's good to have you. Meg, we will be back with you later this hour, and as we get the gavel for the beginning of that hearing. Thank you.

Well, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, European Leaders and U.S. President Donald Trump have been holding critical talks over security

guarantees for Kyiv in the event of a peace deal with Russia.

French President Emmanuel Macron says the coalition is ready to provide protection for Kyiv if a ceasefire is reached. Many experts say the

prospect for peace seemed extremely dim as Russian attacks continue to rain down on Ukraine, as any moves towards negotiations to end this war do

appear stalled.

Well, just hours ago, the Odessa region was hit with another drone attack, according to Ukrainian officials. CNN's Melissa Bell following this for us

from Paris. You have, of course, spent many weeks in Ukraine over the past three years. What more can you tell us about today's Coalition of the

Willing meeting and reaction to it, Melissa?

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was called by the Ukrainian President this particular meeting of the Coalition of the

Willing, Becky, as a result of what we've seen over the last few days, which is that escalation in the aerial bombardments of Ukraine, targeting

both infrastructures, of course, and civilians.

With the Ukrainian President really voicing his frustration, even as he headed to Paris today, once again, that Russia is clearly just trying to

buy time. So, this is about gathering those who are in favor of supporting Ukraine's longer-term independence. And this is the fruit, of course,

Becky, of work that has now gone on for months, technical work that has gone on these so-called security guarantees.

Essentially, the point of this meeting is for this group of 30 or some so countries and institutions, because it involves NATO and the European Union

as well to say we're ready with our technical discussions. We're ready with these security guarantees, things like providing international troops in

the shape of reassurance forces.

It's being called to no contact zones that will be identified in a post peace Ukraine, in order to ensure that the country's territorial integrity

is respected by Russia, because of that strategic positioning of foreign troops going forward. First, though, peace has to be signed, peace talks

have to begin. And so, there was a lot of hope from the Elysee Palace that the United States would provide some sort of presence.

We know Steve Witkoff, in fact, has been in that meeting. We're expecting the press conference to get underway, but not before, of course, that phone

call with President Trump took place, you know, crucial because so many of those involved, and many of them are European countries really looking to

bolster their own defense against Russian aggression.

So many of them have said that they're willing to participate in these efforts to guarantee the security of Ukraine after peace has been secured,

but only if they can secure that American backstop. So, support from the United States, for instance, Becky, with the Ukrainian air defense systems,

ongoing support with intelligence sharing.

And we'll be looking to hear from that press conferences if that is a guarantee they've obtained from President Trump.

ANDERSON: Yeah, I mean, the ultimate security guarantee, Melissa, of course, would be membership of NATO for Ukraine. Which, of course, correct

me, if I'm wrong, is not on the table.

BELL: It's not on the table because, for the time being, so much else is before that can really be discussed. But just to be clear, the NATO

Secretary General has continued to say these last few months that, that will happen at some time. We've been hearing specifically about the

security guarantees over the last 24 hours, Vladimir Putin saying he would not accept any troops in Ukraine.

We've heard Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO, say, well, it's actually none of Russia's business what happens in this independent country

once a ceasefire has been signed. So, there is pushback on the part of NATO against this idea that the lines of what should and shouldn't happen inside

Ukraine's borders after a peace has been signed and a ceasefire found.

There is also the question then going forward of whether or not NATO membership would continue, given how opposed Moscow has been on this

question.

[09:10:00]

For now, even on the question, though, of those security guarantees really very forceful, put back today from NATO, Secretary General, about the fact

that it is up to Ukraine to decide what foreign troops are or are not on its territory once the war has been brought to an end, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah. My colleague Melissa Bell in Paris, always a pleasure. Melissa, thank you. Well, three days of mourning are underway in Portugal's

capital after 17 people died when a cable car derailed on Wednesday. Authorities in Lisbon say at least 21 people also were injured. Reports say

a loose cable may have caused it to plunge downhill.

JOAO POVOA MARINHEIRO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's one of Lisbon's worst ever transit tragedies in what the city's mayor described as a tragic day for

the Portuguese capital when the glory of funicular, a historic 19th century cable car and a tourist hotspot derailed and crashed into a building.

All of this happened in broad daylight in the busy city center, right after 06:00 p.m. during rush hour, which means that the incident was explicitly

witnessed by many passersby. Many of them actually attended the scene to help victims before the arrival of first responders that nonetheless were

quick to get there.

Now questions arise as to the funicular maintenance. Preliminary analysis from experts consulted by CNN Portugal point to the rupture of the cable

that upholds the carriage that crashed. The company responsible for managing Lisbon's traditional funiculars has stated that all safety

protocols have been met.

However, recent and repeated warnings from the city's cable car workers related with maintenance issues have resurfaced. A series of inquiries from

several authorities have now begun. Lisbon's Mayor suspended all public access to the Portuguese capital's other historic funiculars as a

precautionary measure. Joao Povoa Marinheiro, CNN, Portugal, Lisbon.

ANDERSON: Right -- renewed pressure on Trump's White House amid a growing push for more transparency on claims made about the Epstein files. At a

press conference on Wednesday, lawmakers and survivors of abuse by Jeffrey Epstein gathered to share their stories.

If you were watching yesterday this time, you would have heard some of those and to push for accountability. Have another listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA PHILLIPS, EPSTEIN ABUSE SURVIVOR: We know the names, many of us were abused by them. Now together as survivors, we will confidentially compile

the names we all know, and who are regularly in the Epstein world, and it will be done by survivors and for survivors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, just moments after survivors spoke in Washington, Donald Trump said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: From what I understand, I could check but from what I understand, thousands of pages of

documents have been given, but it's really a Democrat hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House for us, growing pressure, of course, from lawmakers on both sides. Is this going to make a

difference?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: We'll have to say. I mean, look, Becky, there had long been concerns with people in this building behind me

that the backlash that the Trump Administration had faced regarding the Epstein file, while it had reached a fever pitch in July, they believed it

kind of had slowed.

In August, they knew it was going to come back in full force and take center stage again once Congress returned to Washington after their

essentially one-month break. And that's exactly what we saw happen yesterday, not only hearing from those victims who came forward, many of

them for the first time to talk about their experience to call for more accountability and transparency.

But also from a number of people within the president's own party who are saying, one, you know, wanting to force a vote to get all of the files

released, saying that they would name, and this is from Republicans Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene, saying that they will read the names of

those that list of people that the victims say they're going to compile, read them on the House floor.

Clearly, a lot of pressure here, and a lot of people saying the White House's response thus far is not enough. The problem, of course, is, will

this actually change anything? And that's getting to the heart of your question, and it's very much unclear. I know that the White House, a couple

weeks ago, back in August, they had really been trying to work out a strategy on how to be more proactive about, you know, the messaging and the

handling of all of this.

That's partly why we saw them release the audio and the transcript of the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche's interview with the Epstein Associate

Ghislaine Maxwell. But again, that's not going to quell really kind of the thirst that a lot of these people have for more information.

And I'd remind you as well, you played that clip of the president referring this as -- to a democratic hoax yesterday in the Oval Office.

[09:15:00]

We've heard him say that before, but I'd remind you that so much of the conspiracies and the calls for more transparency on the Epstein case have

been coming from not only within his own party, but people who are in his administration. A lot of these were fueled at the beginning from people who

are in the Trump FBI leadership, people like the vice president as well.

And so, to answer your question, it's very much unclear what more the administration will do, but the more pressure that is put on them, likely,

the more that we will see.

ANDERSON: Yeah, it's good to have you. Alayna Treene is in Washington. Well, still to come, healing the scars of war. I visited the Iraqi City of

Mosul earlier this week to see how people there are writing a new chapter with the help of a massive and ambitious initiative. More on that is coming

up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, of the many things lost in war, the symbols of our shared culture that are destroyed can leave some of the most lasting holes in a

recovering society. When those losses are so immense that they risk an entire city's rich heritage falling to conflict, only a massive cross

community effort can hope to revitalize and restore those historic markers. Well, I traveled to the Iraqi City of Mosul to witness firsthand just such

an initiative.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON (voice-over): June 2017, Iraq's military battle ISIS fighters. The final push to liberate Mosul's Old City from the terror group's grip on

power.

ANDERSON: Hard to imagine those ferocious fire fights as the Iraqi army tried to take this city back and the scars of war here in Mosul are

everywhere.

ANDERSON (voice-over): But this old city, left largely in ruins, is now on the move again and writing a new chapter in its recovery. And I'm here to

witness an historic milestone, some of Mosul's most important architectural landmarks reopening their doors.

ANDERSON: 80 percent of the Old City of Mosul was destroyed during ISIS occupation. It was here at the Al-Nuri Mosque that ISIS hoisted its black

flag back in 2014 and its leader declared a new caliphate.

ANDERSON (voice-over): In retreat, ISIS detonated explosives inside the prayer hall. The 12th century mosque and its iconic Al-Hadba minaret

reduced to rubble.

[09:20:00]

Today, the leaning minaret once again dominates the city skyline. The restoration made possible by a $115 million UNESCO initiative led by the

UAE, spearheaded by Emirati Ministers Noura Al Kaabi and Sheikh Salem bin Khalid Al Qassimi.

ANDERSON: When you sit here today at the official opening, this is the inauguration, and you reflect on what's been achieved. Given your

experience of this file as it were, how are you feeling?

NOURA AL KAABI, MINISTER OF STATE OF UAE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I feel incredible seeing the young Maslawis here, the one I first met on a

video conference call for the project. And today I'm seeing them again, just smiling, beaming with hope makes me feel so proud, so incredible, and

I feel that we can do more.

I feel this is just the beginning of a beautiful journey with the Maslawis. The youth here are very optimistic. They're filled with hope, and I think

this is the most important thing that we can't take away from them.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Mosul's devastated Christian landmarks were part of the project too. The Convent of Our Lady of the hour and the Al-Tahera

Church.

ANDERSON: The reconstruction of restoration here was extremely challenging. The roof had been destroyed, as had most of the vaults and arcades, a

really, really difficult job --

ANDERSON (voice-over): Sending a powerful message, Mosul's history, one of tolerance and coexistence over centuries. It's built heritage reflecting

those values. Today for the Maslawis, the return of these landmarks is more than bricks and mortar.

MAHMOUD, MOSUL RESIDENT: Everything is back. People, homes, shops are back better than before.

ANDERSON (voice-over): It's about identity, pride and hope. The restoration of Mosul's landmarks is being celebrated here, but for those who helped

lead the project, this moment is more than a look back. It's a blueprint for the future.

AL KAABI: I think there is more to do, and this is a benchmark for you know --

ANDERSON: -- elsewhere -- yeah.

AL KAABI: -- elsewhere -- Becky, around us, there are lots of destruction happening, and I think it's time to have you know, more belief in the

system that we can do this together.

ANDERSON (voice-over): A city once shattered by war is rebuilding and reclaiming its spirit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, I want to get more perspective on this. Omar Mohammed is an historian from Mosul. He created and wrote the anonymous blog, Mosul Eye, a

lens for the world about life under ISIS in his city.

You may remember that way back in 2014, 2015, 2016 of course, he's now a senior research fellow at George Washington University. It's good to have

you, Omar. I used to read your blog. I've listened to podcasts that you have been involved with since. It's been fascinating to hear your

reflections on life under ISIS, post conflict recovery, of course, is deeply complex and cultural heritage a powerful and effective mechanism.

I know the revive the spirit of Mosul project is very close to your heart. You work with UNESCO on it. Just explain for our viewers the impact on you

as a Maslawi.

OMAR MOHAMMED, SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Well, Becky, first of all, this is a turning point for me, personally, for Mosul

and to come back to CNN to talk this time, not about destruction, but about the revival of a city, is a unique moment, I never thought it would ever

come.

So, thank you for hosting me, but also thank you for showing this hope when you were in Mosul. I think we -- I think to trace back the importance of

this movement of Mosul should go back to the very beginning when the question was raised, how do we undo the terrorism of ISIS.

The amount of terrorism that Daesh brought to Mosul was unimaginable. There were many scenarios, but what proved to be the right approach was since

Daesh wanted to destroy the landmarks of the city, to change its history and to dominate its future, then the only way to undo terrorism and to

grant the people hope once again is by restoring what they have lost.

[09:25:00]

And I'm also so happy to see my dear friends, her Excellency, Noura Al Kaabi and Sheikh Salem Al Qassimi both have made their promise, and they

visited Mosul to see the fruit of that project.

I remember back when I met with Noura Al Kaabi. She -- how did this project come to life? She mentioned that it was a simple request made to His

Excellency, Sheik Mohammed Bin Zayed, we want to help rebuild the cultural heritage of Mosul. And the answer was yes, UNESCO came.

It was the evidence that the global mobilization will and can still work anytime we want to make it function for the greater good of the people.

ANDERSON: Yeah, and I think that multilateralism, which is what UNESCO, is all about, and Noura speaks very fluently about that, is so important, and

we need to see more, not less, of it these days. Unfortunately, you know, it feels like it's on the way in these days, Mosul has often been described

to me as a crucible of Iraq's plural society, an urban, cosmopolitan city.

It was one of the most diverse in the Middle East, Muslims, Christians, Jews, living side by side. It was perhaps for that singular reason that the

murderous terror group ISIS saw fit to destroy. I just want you to talk to our viewers about the significance of these iconic landmarks that have been

restored. They're not just crucial to Mosul, they're crucial to the Middle East and the world, of course.

MOHAMMED: Well, I mean to put it simply, these landmarks, be it the church, be it the synagogues, the mosque, and any other landmarks, including the

most important ancient history of Nineveh and the Assyrian history, simply history, in many ways, started there, and it contributed to the global

knowledge.

The preservation of that heritage was not only meaningful to the people of Mosul. Of course, it had a greater significance to the people of Mosul, but

it meant to the rest of the world, because this is a common beginning of the war that everyone shares with us.

This -- what keeps us part of this war, and also what keeps us -- what gives us positive contributors to the rest of world, which is why it is

significant to preserve that heritage and to protect it, and, of course, to restore what has been destroyed. I remember in the very beginning when

Daesh, in fact, few days after people might not remember, but a few days after Daesh occupied Mosul, they began systematically destroying the

moments.

And they began slightly destroying the cultural heritage landmarks. It shows you how important it is, and sites like a Nuri Mosque, because you

have been there, Becky, you have seen every five meters, you can find a church, a mosque and a synagogue. It's about the human resilience.

It's about the human coexistence. It's about this example, that it is possible to live together, that is possible to be different, but also, we

can coexist.

ANDERSON: Yeah, Omar, it's wonderful to have you. Thank you so much for joining us. And I, you know, I -- second what, how you started this, you

know, it's so good to be talking to you about this, when for so long you spoke to CNN about life under ISIS and the destruction that was wrought

during that period.

Omar, thank you very much indeed. Just to close this out, it's not just buildings, but other culture that is, of course, often lost, music, film,

education, all of these are key pillars of the revive the spirit of Mosul project integral to UNESCO's efforts there. We were joined by Iraq's Prime

Minister on Monday in Mosul.

And I know that, you know, there will be great learnings from the Mosul project for Iraq and countries beyond who have been in and are currently in

conflict. Omar, thank you. We are getting breaking news here into CNN, influential Italian Designer Giorgio Armani has died.

He was 91. He was known for his modern Italian style and elegant designs, turning his design house into a multi-billion-dollar business. We're going

to do more on this after this quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]

ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. You are watching "Connect the World". Let's get you back to our breaking news this hour.

Fashion Designer Giorgio Armani has died. More now from Barbie Latza Nadeau.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): Throughout the decades, Armani made in Italy famous throughout the world, building one of the

world's most successful fashion and lifestyle brands.

LATE. GIORGIO ARMANI, ITALIAN DESIGNER: At the end of the day, our goal is to make people look more attractive, you know, more beautiful.

NADEAU (voice-over): And Giorgio Armani's designs did just that. The Armani style had timeless, refined elegance, simple clean lines, subtle colors. It

was all guided by one clear principle.

ARMANI: Always keep in mind what people can actually wear and what actually makes them look better and feel better about themselves.

NADEAU (voice-over): Armani's power suits were big hits with the public, and his signature style made him the go to designer for some of Hollywood's

biggest stars, including George Clooney, Leonardo DiCaprio and Richard Gere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you wearing tonight?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm wearing a beautiful Armani gown that he made just for me.

NADEAU (voice-over): Armani was born in the Northern Italian town of Piacenza in 1934 and endured a difficult childhood.

ARMANI: I grew up after the war, and after the war years, it was actually, you know, it was dangerous. There wasn't very much. There was no food. My

mother used to spend all her time looking for food.

NADEAU (voice-over): He first studied medicine, hoping to become a doctor, but later dropped out, realizing he simply lacked the drive for it. Then

his life took a fateful turn.

ARMANI: I wasn't born with an extreme passion for fashion, even when I was a kid, I never had such an inspiration of becoming a fashion designer. It

was almost by coincidence that I joined a big department store La Rinascente, through an acquaintance.

NADEAU (voice-over): His work in the menswear department sparked an interest in fashion and he discovered he had a gift for it. Armani later

became a freelance designer, with the encouragement of his friend and business partner Sergio Gagliotti, and launched his own menswear label in

1975 where his signature color greige, halfway between gray and beige, was born.

ARMANI: I think that the push that Sergio gave me, that courage inspired me to start a new life. It was pivotal for my success.

NADEAU (voice-over): And pivotal to his success in America, where movies and TV shows popularized his designs, starting with "American Gigolo" in

1980 and dressing stars in more than 200 films, including "The Dark Knight" and "The Wolf of Wall Street". At the age of 90, he also designed the

Italian Olympic team uniform for the 2026 Milano Cortina games.

He took a hands-on approach to running his empire for which he was the sole shareholder, and remained deeply involved in day-to-day operations of his

company into his 90s, fueled by a passion for fashion.

[09:35:00]

ARMANI: The older you get, the more active you are, the younger you keep. Yeah, I mean, the secret is to do something that you love.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, we are back after this quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, we are keeping an eye on Wall Street after what's been a bumpy ride for global bond markets in recent week. It appears to be a

slightly calmer Thursday, as far as stocks are concerned, and just a day after the yield on the 30-year U.S. Treasury Bond briefly hit 5 percent its

highest level since July.

Investors jitters do seem to stem in part from another twist in President Donald Trump's tariff saga. Now the Trump Administration calling on the

U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday to rule that the president does have the power to impose these sweeping levies. That's after a lower court ruling

last week found most of Trump's tariffs are an illegal use of an emergency powers law.

We're joined now by Ernie Tedeschi the Director of Economics at the Budget Lab at Yale University, Former Chief Economist the White House Council of

Economic Advisers under the Biden Administration. Look, let's be very clear about this, American businesses would have to pay something like 210

billion back if they were made to do so as of August the 24th if Trump loses. So, the treasury is going to have to pay that money back. How would

that even work?

ERNIE TEDESCHI, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMICS AT YALE BUDGET LAB: So, there are easy ways to do it and hard ways to do it. You know, if the administration

were motivated, they could set up a website where anybody with tariff claims from, you know, through August, applying to the IEEPA tariffs, the

tariffs that are the subject of this case, could submit for refunds.

But the administration could also make it more onerous and slower, and my guess is that they will probably drag their feet if it comes to that.

ANDERSON: So, Trump himself has said, and I quote him, if they make the wrong decision, it would be a devastation for our country.

[09:40:00]

Look, what do you believe the likely result on this is going to be, and I think it's the ripple effects, right? Even if we haven't got a, you know, a

definitive answer on this. It's this kind of concern, this unpredictability, this sort of, you know, worry in the markets that the

administration hasn't got his arms around things at the moment that's really beginning to hurt assets, U.S. assets.

TEDESCHI: Yeah. Look, I would emphasize a couple of things. One just on the merits. It's very unclear how the court would rule. One could easily

imagine them wanting to curb executive power into revenue collection, which in the constitution is clearly the purview of the legislative branch.

On the other hand, you know, this case hinges on the definition of a national emergency, and the court may not want to get their grubby hands

into a political question like that. The other thing I would emphasize is to remind people that there are unused authorities that this administration

has not drawn on yet that would also allow for tariffs.

338, 122, these are sections of various laws that have been passed in the past, and you know so the administration has a couple of break glass in

case of emergency, options that it could use now those may ultimately also be found to be limited or illegal, but they would have to work with their

way through the courts again.

So, over the next, you know, two or three years, tariff policy is very much going to look like basically what it is today.

ANDERSON: Good to have you, Ernie. Thank you very much indeed. And a reminder of the breaking news this hour, influential Italian Fashion

Designer Giorgio Armani has died at the age of 91. He was known for his modern Italian style and elegant designs, turning his design house into a

multi-billion-dollar business. May he rest in peace. "World Sport" is after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:00]

(WORLD SPORT)

[10:00:00]

END