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Protesters Defiant Amid Iranian Regime's Communication Blackout; Minneapolis Mayor and Other Officials Call for Transparency and Joint Investigation; How Venezuelans in U.S. Reacting to Latest Developments; U.S. Troops Seize Another Oil Tanker in the Caribbean; Concern in Greenland Grows Over Trump Threats; Former British Prime Minister Talks About U.S. Moves in Venezuela. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 09, 2026 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:15]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to the second hour of the show. I'm Eleni Giokos live in Abu Dhabi.
Anti-government protests spread in Iran calling for regime change. Authorities responding by shutting down telecoms as well as the internet.
Donald Trump is set to meet the chiefs of the U.S. oil industry as he looks to them to pump Venezuela's oil out of the ground.
And condemnation from across the United States after two more people are shot by immigration agents this time in Oregon.
We begin in Iran where even in the face of a communication blackout, protestors are defiant. This is the scene today in southwest Iran. People
marching through the streets shouting death to the dictator. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: And last night, we saw the most widespread demonstrations yet since the anger and the frustration boiled over nearly two weeks ago. Authorities
cut internet access and blocked phone lines as the protests grew.
Dina Esfandiary, the Middle East lead at Bloomberg Economics, joins us now live from Geneva, Switzerland.
And we're seeing these very dramatic images from the streets in Iran. 2,000 people have been arrested, over 45 people killed, and more warning and
threats coming through from the Ayatollah. This morphed into an anti-regime protest after hyperinflation sparking the demonstrations. Are you expecting
further escalation in terms of what we're seeing?
DINA ESFANDIARY, MIDDLE EAST LEAD, BLOOMBERG ECONOMICS: Well, it really depends on how the government responds, how many people come out to the
streets and how far these protests spread. So far as the days have gone on, there have been more and more people joining the protests and the protests
have spread wider.
At first, the government appeared to not want to crack down too hard. But last night it seems to have reached a bit of a turning point. And it seems
that the government has now decided that the way forward is to take a page out of their old book and really to crack down hard. If that happens, then
I anticipate that the protests are going to continue and they're going to grow.
GIOKOS: You know, there's been a lot of talk about whether this could spark some kind of regime change or at the very least irreversibly damage the
Islamic Republic. What is the sense out there in terms of how this could ultimately, you know, result in something far more serious for the
Ayatollah on the ground?
ESFANDIARY: So the Islamic Republic is used to protests. It's used to seeing them. They happen often, and they have often been nationwide
protests.
GIOKOS: Yes.
ESFANDIARY: But this time it feels a little bit different. I think there's a real sense of frustration, exhaustion. There's the specter of war hanging
over everyone's head as well. So I think the whole situation has just reached a bit of a boiling point. And I anticipate that the Islamic
Republic that we're seeing today is one that is unlikely to see 2027. I really think that there's going to be some change.
Now, that change may not be regime change, but there's definitely going to be some kind of change at the top because I think that the government is
paralyzed and it's just not good enough anymore for Iranians.
GIOKOS: Yes. Khamenei is talking about foreign interference. I want you to take a listen to what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN (through translator): Last night in Tehran and other cities, a group of vandals destroyed a building
in their own country, seemingly just to win the favor of the U.S. president. If he truly knows what he is doing, he should focus on governing
his own country. There are countless serious incidents unfolding there already.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. And I mean, I guess he's hoping that this is going to just deter protesters because during the 12-Day War, we actually saw people
rallying around the flag and becoming a lot more patriotic when they knew there was some kind of external threat.
Do you think this is likely to resonate?
ESFANDIARY: The blaming foreigners for protests really is a very traditional Islamic Republic way of dealing with protests. So again, it's
nothing surprising. And as you rightly said, Iranians are fiercely nationalistic. So when there is a real threat on the part of an external
enemy, like there was during the 12-Day War, there is a rally around the flag effect.
[10:05:05]
But sometimes when the exhaustion inside, when the problems inside are too big to -- for people to overlook, then that rally around the flag effect
goes away, which is exactly what happened this time. If you have external from somebody like President Trump, who has pledged to support Iranian
protesters if violence increases, I fear that this might actually split protesters. There will be those who welcome that support. And I think there
are those who, again, will go back to that nationalism and reject that support, which in the end will end up being counterproductive.
GIOKOS: I want to talk about the former Shah's son, Reza Pahlavi, calling on more people to take to the streets and in fact thanking President Trump.
Is he a serious and viable opposition force? And is that resonating socially?
ESFANDIARY: So the problem in Iran is that there is no viable opposition inside the country. There have been some grassroots movements, at times
they've gotten ahead. Then there have been setbacks. Anybody that could have been a leader was either jailed or discredited. So inside the country
there is no viable opposition.
Outside the country, there's a very vibrant but also very divided diaspora whose loyalties are very split. And many of them support the Shah's son,
Reza Pahlavi, and support him to return to Iran. But the problem is, he has been outside of the country for many, many years. Well, since the
revolution, in fact. And there hasn't been much work done in terms of what his plan could potentially be.
It's unclear what his support base inside the country is. There are some videos emerging with people calling for him, but other videos emerging with
people also calling him out, just like they're calling out the Ayatollahs. So it really is a gamble to kind of parachute him in into Iran.
GIOKOS: All right. So President Trump has also warned the Ayatollah, saying, you know, if you're going to clamp down on protesters more, you
know, there's going to be some kind of intervention. Frankly, is this an opportunity for the United States to intervene to, you know, spur some kind
of regime change?
ESFANDIARY: It's undeniable that the current government inside Iran has been a problem for the U.S., for Israel, for some of the Arab countries,
for the Europeans, for many, many people. And the stakes here are really, really high. So it's clear that it is an opportunity, but it's a very
delicate opportunity. Like I said, there have been many protests before in Iran. And it's -- and they're notoriously unpredictable.
So it's hard to say whether helping them will help or will make things worse, whether, for example, you know, sparking a war is likely to make the
situation much, much worse and might actually end up being counterproductive because, again, people would rally around the flag. So in
terms of external assistance, it's really difficult to gauge what will actually help rather than impede these protests from continuing to gain
momentum and actually having an effect.
GIOKOS: All right, Dina, thank you so very much. Good to see you. Much appreciated for your time.
All right. We're going to take you to Minneapolis. Now the mayor there is addressing the press. Let's take a listen.
MAYOR JACOB FREY, MINNEAPOLIS: Making sure that we're pushing for transparency every step of the way. The fact that Pam Bondi's Department of
Justice and this presidential administration has already come to a conclusion about those facts is deeply concerning. The facts that from the
very beginning, they're calling the victim a domestic terrorist. They're calling the actions of the agent involved as some form of defensive
posture.
We know that they've already determined much of the investigation, and even if they haven't, there is the appearance that there is some conclusion
drawn from the very beginning. If not hide from the facts, why not embrace them? If it's not a problem to have additional people at the table that
have a deep commitment to the process and transparency and have run these investigations before, then why not include them in the process?
The Bureau of Criminal Apprehension at the state of Minnesota has consistently run these investigations before. They have done so without
bias. They have done so with a great deal of expertise. This is not some radical way out there group. This is a group that is formed by experts who
understand how to investigate. Many of them have been police officers themselves.
[10:10:02]
So our ask is really simple here. Our ask is to embrace the truth. Our ask is to include the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension in this process, because
we in Minneapolis want a fair investigation. Is it deeply concerning that this administration from the very get go is drawing the conclusion that
they may ultimately come to? Of course it is. And if you got nothing to hide from, then don't hide from it. Include local experts in the process.
We got nothing to hide from here. All we want in Minneapolis is justice and the truth. And speaking of the truth, let me give you another one. I have
heard countless people talk about Minneapolis, many of them who have never been here as some form of post-Apocalyptic hellscape, as a place that is
dangerous.
Well, let me give you a statistic. 50 percent of the shootings that have happened thus far in Minneapolis this year have been ICE. In other words,
we've only had two shootings. One of them has been ICE. We are a safe city. ICE is making it less so. We are a city of unity. But ICE is trying to
divide us and tear us apart. For every one of the people that you see standing here behind me, they have more than a thousand people behind them.
They have people that are committed to their neighbors, committed to integrity, committed to justice, and committed to getting the truth. We
will not back down from it. Among those that won't back down from it is the person who I'm about to introduce. His ward is right on the borderline of
where this particular shooting happened, and that is Council Member Jason Chavez.
Would you please give him a warm round of applause?
(APPLAUSE)
JASON CHAVEZ, MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL: Good morning. My name is Jason Chavez, and I have the privilege of representing Ward Nine on the
Minneapolis City Council, where ICE murdered Renee Good. I want to let you all know that our entire community is mourning because of the inhumane
tactics of ICE separating our families, forcing people back into the shadows, and the pure brutality by Immigration Customs Enforcement.
The videos that we have all seen, yourself included, does not match the false narrative from the federal moments. In fact you can hear the words,
"I am pulling out," moment before ICE decided to take the life of Renee Good. She was a mother, a wife, and a beloved community member, not a
domestic terrorist.
I'm calling on Trump's FBI to allow the Minnesota BCA to have access to all the information so an independent investigation can occur. It is important
and critical to our community to have a sense of trust in this process by having an independent investigation to present to the county attorney so
that adequate charges can be made. But most importantly, I am here on behalf of my entire community, echoing the calls to arrest, to prosecute
and fire this ICE agent who murdered Renee Good and to hold those accountable, complicit in this crime.
What has descended upon Minneapolis and in this state is not the American dream. It is not what the American dream is about. Our immigrant neighbors
are here to work. They're here to provide for their family and to achieve prosperity. Instead, what we are seeing in Minneapolis and across the state
is ICE kidnaping our family, following folks driving to work, and kidnaping them. Following people as they're heading to school or to the daycare.
Picking up our immigrant neighbors from bus stops. While neighbors are struggling to afford groceries they're picking them there as well. I've
personally been on the streets since this first happened, and I've seen too many ICE agents kidnap our neighbors from their cars. And to that, we're
always going to condemn it.
And as we continue to ask for justice for Renee Good, we're going to ask our community members to stay on alert. As a proud son of Mexican
immigrants, I asked Minneapolis and Minnesota to rise up, to do everything in their power to defend our immigrant neighbors, to continue to observe
the illegal actions by ICE, to blow your whistle when you see immigration enforcement in your neighborhood.
[10:15:06]
To get trained on rapid response so you can educate your neighbors on what is happening on your block. To provide rides to your immigrant neighbors
who need to go to work, who need to get groceries, who need to see their children come back home safely. To help your immigrant neighbors move their
cars during snow emergencies because what we are seeing is many of our immigrant neighbors being picked up simply by moving their cars.
To help your neighbors take out the trash because there are many reports of neighbors being kidnaped while they are taking their trash out. To support
our immigrant owned businesses. To drop off groceries to our children, mothers, fathers, our community members that are starving and to let know
that ICE is not welcome in this city and in this state. And lastly, we're here to demand justice for Renee Good.
AISHA GOMEZ, MINNESOTA STATE HOUSE: My name is Aisha Gomez. I serve as the state representative for District 62, a south side of Minneapolis, where
our beloved community member was murdered this week. I'm so grateful to Council Member Chavez for explaining this moment to us and calling on us as
a community in to this struggle that our neighbors are facing.
With respect to the investigation into this shooting, there's really only one question in front of us. Are we going to design a process that's
legitimate or not? In 2020, the state legislature created the force investigations unit after the murder of George Floyd, which happened right
around the corner, seven or eight blocks away from where Renee Good was murdered. This unit was established after a long process of looking into
what are the best practices when there is an officer involved shooting.
We learned a lot about this in 2020 in Minneapolis unfortunately. One of the things that we learned is that if you actually are interested in public
safety, if you actually are interested in the legitimacy of a law enforcement force in your community, then you must be invested in
accountability, in transparency and in fair investigations when bad things happen. And so that's the question in front of us.
Do we want a legitimate investigation that pulls in the professionals of the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension who are trained to do this,
who have done this over and over, who have the kind of local connections and local legitimacy that the FBI could just never have because they don't
have that kind of presence here? Or are we going to have a discredited farce of an investigation?
And so, as a group of elected representatives who are deeply invested in the safety of our community and thus in the legitimacy of these processes,
we call on the FBI to share the -- to share the evidence with the force investigations unit at the BCA and have this be a legitimate and trusted
investigation. Thank you.
IRENE FERNANDO, HENNEPIN COUNTY COMMISSIONER: I'm Hennepin County Commissioner Irene Fernando, but you can call me Comish. I use she-her
pronouns and I'm a very, very proud child of immigrants. I'm the youngest woman to ever serve on the Hennepin County Board. I'm the first Filipino
American elected in the state. And I'm Hennepin's first board chair of color in our 174-year history.
My heart is grieving for Renee and her family. This is an unimaginable and preventable loss. I honor Renee's humanity and life, and I acknowledge the
deep pain felt by her loved ones and neighbors. The taxpayer funded actions and harm we are experiencing right now are inhumane, unlawful, and
unconstitutional. The United States due process means that justice is pursued through legal action, credible investigation and courts, not
through guns, murder and violence on our streets.
[10:20:14]
There's jarring footage that show ICE agents stage at elementary school bus stops and going door to door. Often agents are unwilling to provide a badge
number, a warrant, or any legal documentation.
This is a terrifying reality for Minnesotans since we are still grieving Speaker Hortman's assassination due to the impersonation of a police
officer at her doorstep. Our community has experienced the national spotlight with law enforcement shootings, which required significant change
and reform on how such cases are examined, investigated and communicated to the public. It is critical for our communities to have some sense of trust
in the process in order to meet the standards set by Minnesota law and resident expectations.
This is why we are calling on the federal government to cooperate with a joint or independent investigation conducted by the Minnesota Bureau of
Criminal Apprehension. The thought is that they would do this together, but if for some reason that is not possible, please allow shared evidence for a
parallel investigation. The Minnesota BCA is the only nonpartisan state agency equipped to investigate robustly and effectively, in part due to
their establishment of the Force Investigations Unit.
They have the expertise. They are equipped and they are ready to pursue justice on behalf of Minnesotans. Alongside their own investigation, the
BCA -- alongside the federal investigation, the BCA can and should conduct this parallel process, which means full access to the information, evidence
and case file, because in Minnesota, we expect that investigations are completed by the BCA to then get reviewed by the county attorney to
determine if the use of force was appropriate or not.
We have a process here to review force. We have full trust in this process and in the county attorney to do the objective review needed based on the
facts and Minnesota law. The idea that our federal government would not fully cooperate with the BCA in an investigation creates even more mistrust
among our community members because we know federal investigations are very rarely released to the public.
Our justice system and we are here together to ask for and request full cooperation by the FBI and the U.S. attorney's office to provide full
access to the BCA so they can conduct a thorough, complete and independent investigation to determine if the use of force was justified or requires
additional accountability.
Last, and certainly not least, just directly to residents, our neighbors, our friends, our family members, our coworkers, our kids. I am very, very
proud of our unrelenting courage, compassionate caregiving, and a fierce resilience towards justice. It feels very hopeful and very fearful but
together we can and must resist the urge to give in to the numbness that comes from this type of attention because numbing our pain might also numb
our shared humanity.
And it is only through the collective wisdom in our bodies and ancestral story lines that we will get through to the other side of this. Together we
come from powerful, loving and resourceful stories. Our cultures and ancestors have found ways to construct creativity from pain, joy from fear
and hope from oppression. And we will do so again today.
Ultimately, I do believe that our shared humanity and love for one another will prevail, but that only occurs when we all rise with one another.
Leading with integrity, caring for one another with dignity, and fighting for our shared humanity without apology, I and we remain in this fight with
you, speaking our truths and leading towards accountability and justice. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning, everybody. I am State Senator --
GIOKOS: All right. We just heard the briefing there from Mayor Jacob Frey, the mayor of Minneapolis, as well as a county commissioner, member of the
state house, and importantly, as well as city council member.
I'd like to bring in CNN legal commentator and former Trump White House lawyer, Jim Schultz, to the program because importantly, I mean, one of the
things that we heard from everyone that has spoken thus far is to talk about a credible process where there's going to be some kind of joint
investigation.
[10:25:13]
So explain to me whether in these circumstances you see a joint investigation occurring.
JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: So as it stands in cases like this where federal law enforcement is involved in a shooting, the jurisdiction
over that shooting lies with the federal government to investigate that shooting. The local FBI office conducts an investigation. The U.S.
attorney's office for that region, which is filled with career professionals, not politicians, the FBI filled with career professionals,
not politicians, have the jurisdiction over that particular case.
If they need help from the locals to conduct that investigation, if they need assistance, they can bring those local officials in to help with that.
If there is a lawful -- when we determine whether there's lawful shooting or not, that determination is made by the Department of Justice, and by the
U.S. attorney's office and by the FBI. And they will look and they will conduct that investigation. If charges need to be brought, they will be
brought by federal officials.
If the state were to do an investigation and brought charges against a federal official doing its -- doing in the course and conduct of his or her
job and his or her duties, they would be have certain immunities associated with that should it be determined that those immunities apply. If federal
charges were brought -- if state charges were brought, the defense counsel in those instances would ask for removal to the federal courts. Then a
court would determine whether those immunities applied or not if it was in the course of conduct of that particular shooting incident.
If the court did not make that determination, it ends up back in the federal hands anyway. So what I'm saying here is this lies -- this largely
lies with the federal officials, not the state officials. And you've seen parties from both sides go to their corners on this. And this is what's
frustrating. You have politicians from the left that are coming out and immediately calling this person a murderer.
GIOKOS: Yes, it is.
SCHULTZ: You have politicians from the right calling the person who was shot a domestic terrorist. Both are wrong. Both are wrong.
GIOKOS: So this is what I want to get to, Jim. And I'm glad you mentioned this because the mayor actually said this, that it seems that government
official Kristi Noem, you heard from Vance. We heard from President Trump also defending the ICE agent. And also he said this, that there's a
determined -- they've already determined much of the investigation and they've drawn conclusions.
Has it been premature the messaging that we've heard and the narrative that we've heard from President Trump, from the secretary of Homeland Security
and the vice president himself?
SCHULTZ: But what we haven't --
GIOKOS: And this mistrust that's going on.
SCHULTZ: Where we haven't heard that from -- yes, and you have politicians on the left making comments that this person who did the shooting, who
wakes up every morning, by the way, not knowing whether they're going to come back or not to their significant other and their children, that's lost
on a lot of people. These persons, these people take these positions to serve and protect the public no matter.
What the left is saying about them, and prejudging the folks that go out and put their lives on the line every day, that's a fact. So I think that's
where you need politicians on both sides to stay out of this.
GIOKOS: But, Jim, a very quick question.
SCHULTZ: And you need local -- you need law enforcement to go and do their jobs, who aren't career officials. Who you haven't had seen weighing in on
this is the deputy attorney general of the United States --
GIOKOS: Let me ask you this.
SCHULTZ: -- in a way that --
GIOKOS: We're running out of time, Jim.
SCHULTZ: OK.
GIOKOS: OK. Jim, very quickly, I want to ask you this. You know, they're also calling for full access to information and to the investigation.
Should they have it when you say it falls under the federal jurisdiction, yes or no?
SCHULTZ: If the federal government decides that they want their assistance, they can bring them in. If the federal government wants to share that
information, they can share that information. But there is -- the supremacy clause of the United States Constitution gives this federal jurisdiction
over this investigation. It's really the choice of the local federal law enforcement as to whether they want to share that information or not.
That's the law.
GIOKOS: I wish I had more time to speak with you.
Jim Schultz, thank you so much. Thank you for explaining that. Great to have you on.
SCHULTZ: Thank you.
GIOKOS: All right. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. We'll be back right after this. And also some news just in. U.S. diplomats on the ground in
Venezuela for the first time. We'll explain after this. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:32:02]
GIOKOS: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Eleni Giokos. Here are your headlines.
Protesters are back on the streets today in Iran. The government cut internet access and blocked phone lines on Thursday amid the biggest
demonstrations since the bout of unrest began. A human rights monitoring group says at least 45 protesters have been killed in the past two weeks.
U.S. President Donald Trump says Venezuela's opposition leader will visit Washington next week. Maria Corina Machado dedicated her Nobel Peace Prize
to the president and has repeatedly praised his actions in Venezuela.
Russia has struck Ukraine with one of the most advanced weapons in its arsenal. The Oreshnik ballistic missile was used in a massive overnight
barrage. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy says at least four people were killed in the attack, targeting energy facilities and civilian
infrastructure.
And we've just learned a team from the U.S. State Department has traveled to Venezuela for the first time since the ouster of Nicolas Maduro. That's
according to a U.S. official. Meantime, President Trump on his social media Web site wrote that he's canceled a planned second wave of attacks on
Venezuela due to cooperation between the two countries. He's set to meet oil company executives at the White House today to push them to invest in
Venezuela and in the oil industry.
I want to bring in some perspective. We've got a Venezuelan who's now living in the United States. Francisco Valencia is a founder of
Transplanted Friends from Venezuela and joins me now from Miami.
Really good to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Tell me about your experience. And importantly, why did you leave Venezuela?
FRANCISCO VALENCIA, FOUNDER, TRANSPLANTED FRIENDS FROM VENEZUELA: Thank you for having me. And, well, Venezuela is being in a critic humanitarian
emergency since, believe it or not, more than 10 years, I will say 15 years. We founded the organization because people, thousands of people
still, still, shortage of medication supplies for hospitals. So, let me give you an example. People with a transplant, they have rejected their
organ because they don't have medications to maintain their organs.
Women that have breast cancer, they don't have the cancer medication or treatment so they can treat the cancer. People with HIV, they don't have
the treatment so they can, you know, treat the HIV. The hospital, when you go to the hospital in Venezuela, you have to bring your own supplies so
that the doctor can see you. And, you know, so it's been a complex situation in Venezuela, and it's been going on for years, for years.
And it's still going, you know, and it seems for us right now with everything that is happening right now, it's the bright light at the end of
the tunnel for everyone, for thousands of people that live in Venezuela.
[10:35:01]
And the only access they have is not U.S. dollars, it's Venezuelan bolivar, which is nothing for right now to buy medications or food, even food. So,
of course, I mean, a lot of people left Venezuela because the humanitarian issues that they had and looking for, you know, a place so they can receive
the treatment and looking for a place so they can get, once opportunity for a heart transplant or kidney transplant or, you know, maintain the health.
I think that's the main reason why people flew out of Venezuela.
GIOKOS: So, yes. So thank you for explaining the healthcare scenario there. You know, the most recent news and tectonic shifts in Venezuela, I wonder
what your take is on that, and how you feel about Maduro being taken to the United States and facing trial there and the changes in Venezuela.
VALENCIA: Well, we seem that Maduro taking away is a big step for Venezuela going forward. Like I said, looking at the end of the tunnel, right, I
think Maduro was the main responsible for committing humanitarian crime to the people of Venezuela. He violated human rights all the way. He even made
fun of people or children that needed treatment in the hospital or the children. So I think taking Maduro away, which is the head of the
government for so many years, is a good thing.
We are pleased and I've been talking to other people that have chronic diseases, and they see a light of the tunnel. It's not over yet, and it has
to be, you know, there has to be a bigger changer. We think that the vice president is part of that violation of human rights. And until the full
transition has to come, I think we won't see that medications going to, and the hospital going, you know, start working, you know, attending people
like it is.
So I think the beginning, taking Maduro away, is a great news for the people of Venezuela. And after a year of NGOs, going to United Nations and
going to everywhere to make it visible that what's happening in Venezuela, it's great to hear that he's coming to us from, you know, everything that
has been going with him.
GIOKOS: Yes. So let me -- so what we're also hearing is the United States is going to, you know, sell Venezuelan oil and saying that they're going to
distribute the earnings, not only to the United States, but also that it's going to benefit Venezuelans. You clearly want to see investment in the
health care industry. Do you believe that oil revenues will trickle down to the people that need it most?
VALENCIA: Well, to begin with the oil industry, Maduro never invested the oil that he sold to other countries to the Venezuelan people. And that has
to be clear to everyone, because when you have one of the biggest production of oil or reserve in the world, and you have a humanitarian
crisis in the country, it doesn't make any sense. If you have, you know, that a lot of income coming to your country and you have people starving
and you have people, you know, with a lack of medication.
So we hope, of course, and we're going to keep an eye on that, that the oil that is sold right now through the United States will come to the people of
Venezuela. It will invest in the hospital, that will invest in medication, invest in the education. And because that's the idea, because if you have a
country that is rich in oil and other minerals, the idea is you invest in the people. So the people can, you know, have a guaranteed life and they
live their own life like other countries live, you know.
But I think hopefully the oil that is handling right now I think, with Machado and Edmundo, which is the person who won the election, they had a
plan, a rapid response plan with many companies outside the United States. I mean, outside of Venezuela and private companies that were ready to go in
and invest in the health sector. And we were involved developing this plan. So I think, they should take Machado and the team, you know, they should
call them because there's a plan for restoring Venezuela health sector.
So we're going to invest a lot in Venezuela. And I think the oil is one of the main resources that we have that should invest in the Venezuelan
people.
[10:40:01]
GIOKOS: Right. Francisco, thank you so much for your time. Good to see you.
All right. When we come back, the U.S. remains resolute in its mission to capture Venezuela's sanctioned oil tankers. We'll have the latest
developments on that story. That's coming up right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Turning now to some breaking news. The U.S. has seized another oil tanker in the Caribbean Sea according to the U.S. Southern Command. U.S.
troops, in coordination with the Department of Homeland Security, apprehended the Olina oil tanker. It was sailing near Venezuela under a
Timor-Leste flag, according to Marine Traffic. And this comes after the seizure of two other Venezuela linked tankers this week, including a
Russian flagged vessel in the Atlantic Ocean.
The White House has reiterated President Trump is not afraid to continue seizing sanctioned oil tankers despite the tensions it could ratchet up
with Russia as well as China.
For more on this, I'm joined now by Dariusz Bugajski, a Polish Navy officer and professor of maritime law.
Dariusz, it's great to have you with us. Olina has just been seized, and that's after the Bella 1, another vessel near Caribbean, yesterday.
DARIUSZ R. BUGAJSKI, POLISH NAVY OFFICER AND PROFESSOR OF MARITIME LAW: Good afternoon.
GIOKOS: Yes. And I want you -- what's your assessment of the seizure of these dark vessels or these shadow ships?
BUGAJSKI: It's very interesting from our point of view. I mean, Baltic Sea States, we carefully observe the situation and then we are looking for the
legal justification of such action. And the first of all, the first of all, the main reason, the main legal base is the United Nations Convention on
the law of the sea. There is no problem that the United States is not a party to this convention because simultaneously and rules of the
conventions are customary and directly for legal basis for any action against the shadow fleet are given by the convention.
And as we know, freedom of navigation applies to the international waters. And ships, the vessels are exclusively under national jurisdiction. Apart
of the few cases, four cases precisely, there are, first, when ship vessel is engaged in piracy. Second, when ship is participating in slave trade.
Historically, broadcasting illegal. And finally, finally, when ship is stateless, or at least claim to nationalities. And the last one is a
reason, legal justification for the -- for action taken by the United States. Yes?
[10:45:04]
GIOKOS: So I want to ask you this. In terms of the, I mean, frankly, the seizure of these shadow fleets has been quite rare because they seem to
take advantage of the gaps in jurisdiction. Do you believe now that we'll be seeing more seizure of these ships because it's estimated there are
around 1,900 in the shadow fleet?
BUGAJSKI: Yes, as I know, there are many ships which are stateless. Many of them are engaged in the activities under the common term shadow fleet. When
there are truly stateless, it is a sufficient justification for boarding such ship in international waters.
Let me quote clearly international law of the sea. There are two articles, Article 91. There must exist a genuine link between a state and the ship.
And the second article, a ship may not change its flag during a voyage or while in port of coal. So it clearly applies to those ships under the --
most of those ships because the legal situation of many of them is different, but most of them are probably stateless or they claim fake.
GIOKOS: All right. Yes.
BUGAJSKI: Flag.
GIOKOS: All right. Yes. I mean, it's a fascinating topic, one that we'll continue discussing.
Dariusz, great to have you with us. Really appreciate it.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. There's more news just ahead. Stay with CNN.
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GIOKOS: The fate of Greenland has been in the news lately, with President Trump renewing his threats that the U.S. will acquire the Danish territory.
CNN's Nic Robertson traveled to Greenland to see how people there are reacting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Everyone here in Greenland is worried about President Trump's threats for national security
reasons to take control of Greenland. They're worried that he could do it by military force. The vast majority of people here, the last polling, only
6 percent said they wanted the United States to take control. The vast majority of people here do want independence but eventually, not
necessarily right now.
I'm just speaking to one person after we arrived here, he said to me, President Trump thinks he's a big man, but we don't see him that way. We
think of him as a small person. They like their life here, he tells me. They're worried that it's going to change irreversibly if the United States
takes control. Danish politicians are worried. Greenland politicians are worried.
We know that the foreign minister from Greenland is expecting to meet, along with the foreign minister of Denmark, expecting to meet with
Secretary of State Marco Rubio next week. The Danish foreign minister asked for that meeting. He said it's necessary because we need to get nuance into
the conversation.
They feel that the United States doesn't understand what Denmark offers, what Greenland has on tap for them already in terms of resources and
potential troop deployments. The foreign minister of Denmark also said that we need to bring the rhetoric down, tone it down.
[10:50:00]
But the Danish prime minister has used even stronger language and said, look, President Trump takes this area by force, Greenland, then that's the
end of NATO and the European Union is standing lockstep behind Denmark and Greenland right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Well, former British prime minister David Cameron says after the removal of Nicolas Maduro by the U.S., it's essential that the Venezuelan
people benefit from their country's own oil. Mr. Cameron spoke to me earlier this week and gave his thoughts on the response from Britain's
current prime minister. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CAMERON, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think Keir Starmer is right to say that no one will miss Maduro and maybe the Venezuelan people will
have a better chance without him. I think he's also right to reference international law. International law is important. It can't be some
biblical guide to every single thing that we do.
I mean, another part of the world, Britain is, in my view, mistakenly giving up the Chagos Islands and that vital base in the Indian Ocean
because of, you know, an interim legal judgment rather than thinking about what's in our own national security interest, and should we work harder to
get a better deal?
But I think, by and large, Keir Starmer is trying to keep the alliance together with America. He's trying not to choose between Europe or America.
He's trying to do both. I think that's right.
GIOKOS: He's toeing the line. But was it a breach of international law?
CAMERON: Well, the Americans clearly don't think so. They believe that he is guilty --
GIOKOS: But do you think so?
CAMERON: I'm not an international lawyer. They believe he is guilty of serious criminal crimes. And they are putting him in front of a court in
New York. So I think I'm prepared to focus on that.
GIOKOS: So I'm quite curious to find your views on, you know, if we take this situation and we compare it to what happened in Iraq, you know, here's
the U.S. gets into Venezuela, ousts the very top. So oust Maduro and then leaves the regime intact essentially because Delcy Rodriguez is now, you
know, running the country effectively. Is that a better methodology than what we saw happening?
CAMERON: I can see why people might be skeptical, but one of the things I would reflect on is, although I'm a big believer in democracy, I'm a big
believer in elections. I think ultimately that is the means to have legitimate government. I think sometimes the rush to go from the removal of
a president straight into elections can sometimes be a mistake. And I think if the Americans are trying to say, let's have stability, let's build some
confidence, then let's have a transition, then let's have elections. I think that might well be the right --
GIOKOS: Do you think that's what's happening here?
CAMERON: I hope so. What I worry about --
GIOKOS: They've ostracized Machado, though.
CAMERON: But what I worry about is I don't think you should ostracize the legitimate opposition who arguably won that contested election, point one.
And I think the second thing is, I think we need to be very clear that that Venezuelan oil should be for the benefit of the people of Venezuela. I
mean, the reason that country is so poor, it has enormous mineral wealth, but is incredibly poor because of a very corrupt government that wrecked
that industry and failed to deliver its proceeds into the hands of the Venezuelan people.
And so I think it's really important that if the Americans want to see a successful Venezuela, building that confidence, demonstrating to the people
of Venezuela, that that oil wealth is your wealth, it's your benefit. You should benefit from it. I think that's the most important thing.
GIOKOS: Do you think that -- I mean, what the Trump administration plans to do now is take Venezuelan oil, and they say they want to sell it at, you
know, international market prices, not at a discounted price. That eventually ends up in China and Russia and Iran and so forth. Do you think
that's the right thing to do? Because we don't know what methodology, what contract is going to be used and whether the Venezuelan government agrees
with this, because some would even characterize this, depending on which side of the aisle you're on, say this sounds like a resource grab.
CAMERON: Well, I would say the more the Americans can say, no, no, we're going to sell this oil and the benefit will flow back to Venezuela, I think
that's the point. But I think there is a broader point here, which is that clearly America is saying we can't put up indefinitely with an illegitimate
president who's denied an election, who's wrecked his country, who's selling cheap oil to the Chinese, who's an ally for Russia, so close to our
own country.
They're saying we're not prepared to put up with all those things indefinitely. And that's why they've acted now. You know, I understand some
people have unease about that. But look, welcome to the dangerous world that we now live in and a world where we're going to have to think, how do
we keep our alliances together? Because if you're a country like Britain, that's absolutely essential to your security and your safety.
GIOKOS: OK. So what precedent does this set, would you say? I mean, Taiwan is an issue. China is probably looking on and going, well, if the U.S. can
do this to Venezuela, we can pounce on Taiwan at any point. Russia is watching very closely.
CAMERON: So to me, the most important point is respecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of another country. Now, you can argue that what
America is doing with Venezuela is about action on crime. That's not the same as, say, Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine, which is wrecking the
sovereignty and territorial integrity of another country and trying to take part of that country for yourself.
[10:55:06]
And the same, I would say, with Taiwan. Look, we've always said that we know that China would like to reunify with Taiwan, but we said it would not
be right for that to happen violently or through force. And that's what it would be if that were to take place. So I think there is a line that can be
drawn.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Well, NASA is bringing the four astronauts of SpaceX Crew 11 back to earth early because one of them has a medical issue. The unnamed crew
member is in stable condition and is not expected to receive special treatment during the trip back from the International Space Station. Their
return is expected in the coming days, more than a month ahead of schedule.
NASA revealed the issue on Wednesday after postponing a spacewalk. NASA's next four-member team was set to take off for the space station in mid-
February, but could launch a lot sooner.
All right, that's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up next and have a great weekend.
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