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Trump and Iranian FM Say Iran Not Planning Executions; Regional Middle East Powers Urge Trump Not to Attack Iran; U.S. Military Seizes Another Oil Tanker in the Caribbean; Trump to Meet Venezuelan Opposition Leader Machado; Gaza Entering Second Phase of Ceasefire Plan; Saudi Arabia Looks to Critical Minerals to Diversify Economy; Lucid CEO on Navigating U.S.-China Competition; China's App Asks "Are You Dead?" Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 15, 2026 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome back to the second hour of our show. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London.
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MACFARLANE (voice-over): President Trump says Iran has stopped the executions of detained protesters but that the U.S. is still weighing
military action against the country.
The United States has completed its first sale of Venezuelan oil, valued at 500 million. Opposition leader Maria Machado is in Washington today to
discuss the country's future with Trump.
And we're live at the Future Minerals Forum in Riyadh for the final day of global conversations. Critical minerals driving a lot of our geopolitical
stories in today's agenda.
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MACFARLANE: We start the second hour of CONNECT THE WORLD with what appears to be a step back by the U.S. president over threatened military
action in Iran, as regional powers in the Middle East urge Donald Trump not to attack. President Trump saying he's heard executions of protesters are
not happening as feared.
An account backed up by -- backed up Wednesday by Iran's foreign minister. But he also says he's going to wait to see what happens before ruling out
any military intervention. Turkeys foreign minister is urging Iran's government to internally address the issues that sparked the latest round
of deadly anti-government protests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAKAN FIDAN, TURKISH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We are against a military operation against Iran. And, of course, we believe that
authentic problems of Iran should be resolved by themselves. There is, of course, an international relations dimension. They are issued to the
sanctions.
And, of course, this is because of certain policies, both regional and global. We are saying to them that they need to resolve their problems with
the region. And because of the nuclear issue, they need to resolve their problems with global actors.
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MACFARLANE: Ben Wedeman is in Sulaymaniyah, Iraq, near the border with Iran.
Good to see you, Ben. And as we were just hearing there, Ben, I mean, there have been fears of regional instability if the U.S. were able to damage the
Iranian regime. That's a big if, of course.
But how big a role do you think that may have played here in the lack of action from the U.S. overnight?
And also, what is the feeling there, the mood?
Is it one of relief?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The mood, certainly there is the impression that these protests in Iran have abated somewhat.
But certainly the toll has been very high.
Human rights organizations talking about at least as many as 2,500 people killed. Thousands have been wounded. Thousands have been detained.
And the basic underlying causes for these demonstrations, the fact that, as a result of decades of sanctions and mismanagement by the Iranian regime,
the economy has essentially collapsed. The real, the Iranian currency, has lost more than 80 percent of its value in 2025 alone.
And what we're hearing from people, for instance, we've been in touch with somebody who has come out of Iran recently, coming from a relatively small
town, who tells us, at the morgue in that town, families have left with 19 bodies. And that's just a small town.
So given that the blackout, the internet and telecommunications blackout, is still in effect, I think the true extent of the death toll is not clear
yet and may not be clear for quite some time.
As far as president Trump's decision to step back, definitely the urging of Turkiye and other Gulf allies of the United States, that the United States
give Iraq -- Iran a chance may have been heard by the American president.
Because there is real concern that, if the United States attacks Iran, for one, Iran might respond, as it did back in June during the 12-day war, by
not only attacking American military installations in the region but perhaps targeting the oil, the energy infrastructure of those Gulf states.
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There's a worry that if, for instance, there is even more instability in Iran, there could be waves of millions of refugees going to Turkiye, Iraq,
to Pakistan, as well, that any major blowup between Iran and the United States could really send convulsions through the energy sector.
So there are a lot of reasons why now is not a time, an opportune time, to go after the Iranian regime. But as I said, the fundamentals behind these
demonstrations haven't changed, even though perhaps the tempo of the demonstrations has lowered somewhat.
So there is a concern that eventually this regime will fall. It's just a question of how and when.
MACFARLANE: Yes. And to your point there about the fear of refugees flooding into neighboring countries, I mean, we heard from the defense, the
Iranian defense minister, just yesterday, saying it may not be able to prevent instability from spreading beyond its borders.
What kind of fear is that creating among neighboring countries?
And what do you make of the messaging from Iranian officials in general over the past 24 hours?
WEDEMAN: Well, certainly, you know, there is fear. There is fear because we have the example of Syria. As a result of the war in Syria that began in
2011, you had millions of refugees going to Turkiye, going to Jordan, going to Lebanon, going to Iraq.
And, of course, keep in mind that Iran has a population of 90 million people. So if that country is -- basically falls apart, the repercussions
to the rest of the region could be massive; not just to the rest of the region, to the world well beyond it as a result of the fact that Iran has
the world's third largest proven oil reserves as well.
And I think the Iranians understand that -- that they have -- that if their country falls apart -- and I'm talking about Iranian officials -- that it
is a threat to the rest of the region. And they're not -- they're not hiding that fact.
And therefore, I think as a result of that, leaders in the Arab Gulf, in Turkiye are urging the United States to be cautious, that even though
president Trump might be eager for yet another Venezuela-style operation, it just isn't going to happen in Iran.
Iran is too big, too powerful -- the regime is still in control, despite these recent demonstrations -- and that any major blowup could have massive
ramifications throughout the region and around the globe as well. Christina.
MACFARLANE: Ben Wedeman in Iraq, we appreciate you being there for us, Ben. Thank you.
I want to bring in Firas Maksad, a managing director for the Middle East and North Africa at the Eurasia Group.
I'm sure you were listening closely there to what Ben had to say. But I want to get your thoughts, particularly right now, on the pause that we're
seeing from the U.S. administration.
Because it was interesting to note, I thought, yesterday -- Saudi Arabia reportedly telling Iran yesterday they would not permit the U.S. to use
their airspace to carry out any strikes.
I mean, we heard from Ben there but I just want to get your thoughts on how much you think regional pressure and concern about regime change has been
influencing this apparent pause from Donald Trump.
FIRAS MAKSAD, MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA MANAGING DIRECTOR, EURASIA GROUP: Yes. Thank you, Christina.
In many ways, this is not surprising. These GCC states, Saudi Arabia chief amongst them but also Qatar, Oman, have been playing a mediating role
between the United States and Iran, trying to get to some kind of a negotiated settlement on the nuclear issue.
But also on Iran's ballistic missile program and proxy -- proxies, including the idea of a nuclear consortium of sorts in the region, led by
the United States, after Iran agrees to zero enrichment for its nuclear program. That's not in the cards right now.
But this is all to say that the lines of communications are clearly open. The GCC is playing a central part of that.
And we know that those leaders, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman in particular but also President Erdogan of Turkiye, are leaders
that are respected by president Trump, who he listens to and who can often change his opinion.
Now I think that their calculus is first trying to limit blowback, because obviously they are hosts of American military facilities but also energy
facilities.
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But also longer term, I think there are many in the region that do not see a resurgent Persia that is allied -- aligned with the United States -- and
potentially even Israel -- as being in their interest.
And I think about Turkiye and I think about the GCC states -- GCC states here. I think that they're mistaken. I think that the Iranian regime is
mortally wounded.
And so I would caution many to be on the right side of history in this, even if it takes a year or two. Clearly, the Iranian regime doesn't have
what it takes to fix the underlying problems that keep giving life to instability in the country.
MACFARLANE: Yes. And I really want to hear your thoughts on Iranian regime, maybe mortally injured at this point.
But just to reflect on the unpredictability of Donald Trump and recent history, I mean, there's still a question here about, is this a face-saving
way out for Donald Trump or is he stalling for time?
Because it's worth remembering that, ahead of the June war, Iran had had scheduled talks with the U.S. when, just a few days later, Israel and
Netanyahu launched that surprise attack.
So is there a chance this could be strategic deception from Donald Trump?
How do you read where he might be and the administration might be at this point?
MAKSAD: I think you're absolutely right. Those who think that military action is no longer on the cards are mistaken. This is classic Trump. He
does want to keep everybody guessing. Uncertainty is not a flaw. It's by design in his negotiation tactics.
We do have a carrier group that is on its way to the region, will be there in six to seven days. And I think that's going to be a crucial period in
terms of Donald Trump wanting to iron out a deal with the Iranian regime. He sees it as a time of maximum leverage, maximum pressure.
Now is there a deal on the cards?
I doubt that there is. As long as the supreme leader Khamenei is in power, this is somebody who, really, his entire legacy has been based on the
hundreds of billions of dollars that have been spent on the nuclear program, on the forward defense strategy, dependent on the proxies.
And so to give those up at a time when he's at the end of his life, the end of his tenure, we know he's 85, 86 and sick. So I don't see that there's an
overlap in any Venn diagram between what Trump wants to accomplish and what the Iranians are willing to give as long as the supreme leader remains the
one calling the shots.
MACFARLANE: Very important point. I mean, this has, by all accounts, as we know, been a horrific protest, horrific for protesters, the images we've
seen coming out of Iran. And the most forceful and perhaps violent protest we have seen in Iran in years. You talked about the regime being fatally
wounded before.
How bad do you think it is for them?
And in addition, of course, to the crippling economic situation in the country, how have they been left by this protest?
MAKSAD: Well, I mean, the situation is so bad that even regime insiders, the president himself, have to admit that they have -- fell short of
providing answers, that some of them even publicly saying that maybe the regime has been proven incapable of providing the solutions for those
chronic structural, economic ailments.
But also not just economic, mass environmental degradation. We're talking about Tehran, a capital city of millions, running out of water,
potentially. And so -- and to try and find some short-term solutions by printing money and providing handouts to direct handouts to family.
Anybody who understands basic economics understands that this will only feed into further inflation -- hyperinflation, perhaps -- and further
devaluation of the national currency.
So this is a regime that doesn't offer any answers. And certainly the price of oil in the 50s right now, 59 this morning, doesn't help a regime that is
so dependent on oil revenues for its income.
MACFARLANE: Today marks a week since Iranians responded to the call from Reza Pahlavi to take to the streets. As you all know, it is unclear,
though, if he has the backing of the president, despite the surprise images of him appearing alongside Lindsey Graham yesterday in Washington. We can
see them here.
How viable an alternative does he remain?
And what do you make of that meeting in Washington?
MAKSAD: Yes, I mean, my understanding is that Pahlavi does not enjoy a significant organizational structure within the country. This is somebody
who left the country in '78, '79. So we can all do the math of how long he's been out of the country.
Iran, again, is opaque, just given the repressive nature of the regime. But he clearly has some inspirational pull, as you rightly put it. He did call
on people to take to the streets.
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And by and large, protesters did heed his call. I don't think that president Trump at this point wants to clearly put all his cards, all his
chips behind anybody in Iran. For one thing, he's clearly still negotiating with the regime. Communication channels remain open.
But by having somebody like Lindsey Graham, who's so close to the president, and also Steven Witkoff, his envoy, reportedly meet with
Pahlavi, they're certainly keeping him in the mix in terms of the pressure cards and tools as they think through what they want to do about Iran,
their next step.
MACFARLANE: Firas, always excellent analysis. Great to have you on the show. We appreciate it. Thank you.
Now let's take you to Havana next, where authorities in Cuba are holding a public tribute today for soldiers and agents killed in the U.S. attack on
Venezuela. Details on that just ahead.
But for now, let's go to Eleni Giokos at the Future Minerals Forum in Riyadh to hear about what's next on CONNECT THE WORLD.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Christina. So I've been speaking to major players in the electric vehicle market here at the
conference. And we'll be delving into those big conversations.
I caught up with the CEO of Lucid. It's an American EV company with a factory right here in Saudi Arabia. We'll be talking about China's
dominance in the market and whether it's possible for countries to catch up and compete. So we'll bring you that right after this. Stick with CNN.
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MACFARLANE (voice-over): A public memorial service is being held today in Havana, Cuba, for soldiers and security agents killed in the U.S. attack on
Venezuela.
A few hours ago, the remains of those soldiers, as well as those injured in the attack, arrived at the airport, where they were met by Cuba's president
and other top officials, including former leader Raul Castro.
The island's government says at least 32 Cubans died in January 3rd attacks on Caracas, during which U.S. forces captured Venezuelan president Nicolas
Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores.
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MACFARLANE: Well, meanwhile, in just a few hours from now, president Trump will meet with Venezuelan opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, at the
White House. The high stakes meeting comes after Mr. Trump surprised many by allowing Maduro's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, to assume control of
the country.
Machado had previously courted the president, even dedicating her Nobel Peace Prize to Mr. Trump, who has openly campaigned to receive the honor
for years.
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QUESTION: If she gives you her Nobel Peace Prize, will that change your view about her running that country?
TRUMP: Well, I have to speak to her. I mean, I'm going to have to speak to her. She might be involved in some aspect of it. I will have to speak to
her.
I think it's very nice that she wants to come in. And that's what I understand. The reason is I can't think of anybody in history that should
get the Nobel prize more than me. And I don't want to be bragging but nobody else settled wars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Worth noting that the Nobel people have said that she actually can't do that.
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So we'll watch to see today. Let's bring in Ivan Briscoe to discuss this. He's the senior director for policy at the International Crisis Group.
And Ivan, good to see you. Before we get to the events of today, I just wanted to turn to something we are learning in the last hour about the U.S.
seizing another oil tanker in the Caribbean Sea.
The U.S. has, of course, taken control of five tankers so far. So I just want to quickly get your thoughts on what you make of this move. And once
again, the legality of this.
IVAN BRISCOE, SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR POLICY, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Oh, many thanks for having me on, Christina. It's one more sign that the U.S.
is exerting its complete control over the Venezuelan oil industry.
There will be, by the end of this process, presumably no oil leaving Venezuela, which is not in the control of the United States. And all the
proceeds from Venezuelan oil exports or, according to the plan which was laid out late last week, will be directed through U.S. accounts and then
handed over to Venezuela.
MACFARLANE: The U.S. has, by all accounts, made its first sale of Venezuelan oil, an estimated value of $500 million for it as well.
Who is this money going to?
What do we know?
BRISCOE: Well, first of all, it's going to go to the companies which produce the oil. Then I would imagine there will be some form of commission
being taken by the U.S. authorities involved.
And then there will be a significant chunk, one hopes, going to the Venezuelan authorities, which have been short of resources since these
seizures of tankers began back in December.
And the Venezuelan economy was already in fairly appalling condition after a long, more than a decade of contraction. And then, of course, U.S.
sanctions being imposed on it from 2019. So it really relies on income from its oil exports to get the dollars to be able to import goods, to be able
to get the economy going again.
MACFARLANE: And while this seizure of oil tankers continues, Trump officials are reportedly eyeing a private security contractor to safeguard
oil assets in Venezuela.
Do you know what that's going to look like?
BRISCOE: Well, no, we don't have any sense of this. Obviously, we've seen in other contexts, in Latin America over the recent years, an increasing
relationship between, if you like, host governments; U.S. embassies, U.S. forces and private contractors.
This is something which we've seen recently in Haiti, for example, where there have been, if you like, mercenaries that have been involved in the
fight against gangs.
This is something which has been reported in Ecuador, which is, as you may know, has suffered a huge rise in criminal violence recently and has
resorted to private forces for certain operations.
And as you say, it's something which we might see as a means of protecting oil facilities in parts of Venezuela.
I mean, there's no doubt that there will be elements within Venezuela that are not altogether happy about the new post-Maduro arrangement in the
country, which involves the Chavistas, supposedly Chavista regime fundamentally working in partnership with the U.S.
With the U.S. as we've just established, exercising almost complete control over its main business, the oil industry. And there are lots of armed
groups and armed interests in the country.
MACFARLANE: Look, as we -- as we kind of look ahead to the immediate political future in Venezuela, we're, of course, hearing two very different
narratives from president Donald Trump on Venezuelan leaders.
He called Rodriguez, quote, "a terrific person" but has obviously taken a very different tone with Machado.
What are you expecting looking for from today's meeting?
BRISCOE: Well, I would imagine that Maria Corina would make very clear that she was -- or rather her surrogate candidate, Edmundo Gonzalez -- was
the victor in the elections of 2025.
And that she would also underline that Delcy Rodriguez was extremely close to Maduro, was, in many ways in -- at the very -- in charge, if not
directly, of the repression of the last few years and that she's probably not someone that he can entirely trust.
That he has aligned himself with someone that is no different from the -- Maduro, who has been accused, of course, by the U.S. authorities, by the
Department of Justice, of being in charge of drug trafficking and carrying out various human rights violations.
Has been accused by the International Criminal Court, along with senior officials, of involvement in crimes against humanity during the repression
of protests from 2017 onwards. She would make these points at the same time as trying to convince Trump that she is a viable, realistic leadership
alternative for the country.
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And it's exactly that point which Trump and Rubio and other U.S. officials doubted. They didn't think that they could remove Maduro and then insert
Maria Corina or Edmundo Gonzalez and managed to keep control over the country.
That option was stabilization, fundamentally.
And she's got to make the case. And this is going to be a very hard case for her to make, that she can work alongside the Chavista armed forces, the
Chavista governors, the Chavista central state technocrats and the armed Para police, colectivos, and all these other associated elements of the
Chavista regime and that they will do -- carry out her instructions. And that's a hard case to make.
MACFARLANE: Yes. Interesting to note, too, that Delcy Rodriguez is, of course, carrying out her state of the nation address today. Whether or not
that's by design, I suppose, can be debated. Ivan, always great to have your analysis. Thank you. We appreciate it.
BRISCOE: It's a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you.
MACFARLANE: As the fate of Venezuela hangs in the balance, the battle has emerged between two female leaders for the control of the country's future,
as we were saying, and for the American president's favor.
You can read more about acting president Delcy Rodriguez and opposition leader Maria Corina Machado by visiting our website here.
Now ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD, why some displaced Palestinians sound skeptical as the Gaza ceasefire plan moves into phase two.
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MACFARLANE (voice-over): Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD with me. Christina Macfarlane. Here are your headlines this hour.
U.S. president Donald Trump says executions of protesters are not happening in Iran as the Iranian foreign minister denies protesters are being put to
death. President Trump says he wants to wait and see what happens before ruling out threatening military action on Iran in the coming hours.
President Donald Trump will welcome Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado to the White House to discuss her country's future following
the capture of Nicolas Maduro by U.S. forces.
The meeting comes after Mr. Trump surprised many by allowing Maduro's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, to step up as acting president.
NASA has carried out its first-ever medical evacuation from space for crew members from the International Space Station. Splashdown in the Pacific
Ocean a few hours ago, after wrapping up their mission earlier than scheduled, NASA isn't disclosing what health issue prompted the early
return to Earth.
MACFARLANE: And the Trump administration says phase two of its ceasefire plan for Gaza is getting underway.
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That's despite Israeli opposition. A committee of Palestinian technocrats has been selected to run Gaza until a reformed Palestinian Authority can
take over. We've been hearing from some displaced Palestinians who are reacting to the launch of the second phase. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I want to see a ceasefire for everyone because safety and stability comes first. Then the prisoners. It
would make us happy if they were released.
Then the prisoners must be released and this must be the first in the second phase, which is to return the prisoners. Gaza has been destroyed.
And for there to be no ceasefire and no release of the prisoners after its destruction, is unacceptable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): To stop the war. Food and water are not the problem. I just want the war to stop. I have only one son. I do
not want to lose him. My son has a son.
If my son is killed, who will raise my grandson?
I'm old now. I'm 52 years old.
Who will raise my grandson if my son is martyred or I am?
Oh Lord, let the war stop today, before tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): But for me, as a Gazan citizen from the north, I have fears. And I am worried because the Israelis, as you
know, are treacherous and the whole world has control over us.
This is a game of the United States. So I am afraid the ceasefire will not hold, that something will go wrong in the second phase, and the war will
come back again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, Gaza's health authorities say the death toll in the enclave is now more than 71,000 since Israel's war with Hamas broke out.
More now from CNN's Jeremy Diamond.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, announcing the launch of phase two of the president's
plan to end the war in Gaza.
And that announcement, in and of itself, really is quite notable, because there have been months of questions now over whether or not we would
actually get to phase two of this plan.
Keep in mind that the ceasefire has been marred by violence, with more than 400 Palestinians killed by the Israeli military. In addition to that, the
release of the bodies of deceased hostages in Gaza has been a slow roll, with still one deceased hostage remaining in the Gaza Strip.
But Witkoff, announcing this phase two and focusing on what is being done today and what will be done over the coming months, he noted that this will
establish a transitional technocratic Palestinian administration of Gaza.
The Egyptian government indeed announcing on Wednesday the formation of that committee, also noting that it will begin the process of the, quote,
"full demilitarization and reconstruction of Gaza."
Witkoff saying in this tweet that the United States expects Hamas to fully comply with its obligations, including the return of the remains of that
last deceased hostage, saying, quote, "failure to do so will bring serious consequences."
Now we know Hamas has already said it will dissolve its existing government in Gaza and hand over power to this technocratic administration. We still
have not resolved, however, the question of Hamas actually disarming.
And that will be a major test of this next phase of this Gaza peace plan, as president Trump calls it. What Witkoff doesn't talk about, though, in
this post, is just as notable.
There is no mention of Israel's responsibilities under phase two. In fact, Israel's name isn't even mentioned in this statement from the U.S. special
envoy.
And it's important to note that, in president Trump's 20-point plan, there is talk of Israel withdrawing from the half of the Gaza Strip that it still
currently controls, based on standards and milestones linked to that demilitarization of the Gaza Strip.
There's also no mention of that international stabilization force, this international security force that's set to take over security control of
the Gaza Strip.
And we've yet to see any public announcements, either from the United States or any countries that may contribute troops to that effort, about
the establishment of that force, which was set to go into effect around the beginning of this year.
What we have seen, though, are names circulating of some of those Palestinian technocratic officials who will be taking over governance of
the Gaza Strip; the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank welcoming the establishment of this committee.
And then we also have seen Nickolay Mladenov, a former U.N. special coordinator for the Middle East peace process, he has been busy getting up
to speed. He is set to take over as the director of this Gaza board of peace, working very closely and overseeing the work ultimately, of this
Palestinian technocratic government in Gaza.
But major, major tests certainly lying ahead for phase two.
[10:35:00]
Jeremy Diamond, CNN Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Returning to the U.S. now, president Trump is warning he might invoke the Insurrection Act and that could mean U.S. troops on the streets
in Minnesota.
This comes as officials in Minneapolis urge people to stay calm after angry demonstrations Wednesday night. It followed an incident where a man was
shot in the leg after allegedly assaulting a federal immigration officer. The man's injuries are not life-threatening.
Tear gas and stun grenades were used to try and disperse protests that erupted after that shooting. Minneapolis is still reeling from last week's
killing of Renee Good by an ICE agent.
Well, the U.S. Homeland Security secretary just spoke to reporters gathered outside the White House. Kristi Noem defended the actions of the ICE agents
on the streets. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM (R-SD), SECRETARY, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY: Our ICE agents are following the law and running their operations according to training. Last
night, what we saw was three individuals weaponized shovels and brooms and attack an ICE officer that had to defend himself.
So we're hopeful that we don't see that again, that these protesters and violent rioters will be held accountable for the actions that they're
taking and that our officers can do their work safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: CNN's Whitney Wild is in Minneapolis and joins us live.
And Whitney, just ahead of those comments from Kristi Noem, president Trump threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act over Minneapolis unrest. Just
talk to us about what that could look like.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think there is a major question of -- if that comment is actually going to in any way become reality.
You know, CNN's Alayna Treene had previously reported that this is something he has floated and other scenarios, that advisers around him
really don't want him to do that.
And then finally, I think there's a major legal hurdle here, especially when you consider that the Trump administration lost a case where they were
trying to deploy the National Guard for violent confrontations between protesters and federal law enforcement in Illinois.
And just to kind of wrap up how that case happened and why the Supreme Court eventually ruled in the state's favor, they just did not --
eventually, what happened was multiple district court judges had decided -- and appeals court judges had looked at this case where the Trump
administration wanted to deploy the National Guard.
Because they said that immigration enforcement officials could not do their job safely because they were being confronted by protesters. In Illinois,
multiple local law enforcement jurisdictions intervened to create space between federal agents and protesters.
That was a critical element that judges looked at when they were trying to figure out whether or not the administration even had standing to use the
National Guard. And as that made its way up to the Supreme Court, an appeals court again relied on the fact that there was local law enforcement
to assist.
And then finally, Amy Coney Barrett, a Trump appointee, ruled against the Trump administration, saying that she just she frankly did not think the
administration had articulated a real emergency that would warrant using the National Guard without the governor of Illinois' approval.
I -- just for our international audience, typically the National Guard is under the control of the state governor. The president had tried to take
that control. And so if you look at that case as a framework for what even, you know, utilizing the Insurrection Act might look like, it appears, it
would face an enormous legal hurdles.
So there are major questions about whether or not that's even possible. Let's go back to this case last night. This was the latest flareup between
protesters and federal law enforcement. This came after, as you said, a DHS agent had tried to take a suspect into custody.
He got loose, he got into a car. He crashed. When he jumped out again, as this federal agent and the suspect were in a struggle on the ground, two
other people came out of an apartment building and began attacking the DHS officer with a shovel or a broom.
The suspect then got loose again, according to DHS, and began attacking that ICE officer with a with either a shovel or a broom. And that's where
that ICE officer fired what DHS calls defensive shots.
The ICE officer was taken to the hospital, as was the suspect; nonlife threatening injuries for both of them. The other two people who attacked
that officer are now in custody.
The context here is that that's a week after the shooting death of Renee Nicole Good. And while the scenarios appear to be completely different and
we don't have, say, witness video of this latest incident, this comes as the city is already seething with anger over what they're seeing ICE do in
their area and beyond. Back to you.
MACFARLANE: Yes, very important to keep all of this in context, as you have done. Whitney Wild in Minneapolis, thank you.
And my colleague, Eleni Giokos, will be back up after the break. She's at the Future Minerals Forum in Saudi Arabia, where governments are racing to
figure out how to compete with China.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:40:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GIOKOS: (OFF MIKE COMMENTS)
Well, welcome back. It's day two of the Future Minerals Forum here in Riyadh. Policymakers and industry leaders are increasingly concerned about
threats to regional stability and the impacts they could have on everything, from mining and production of resources to international
partnerships.
Particularly in play is copper, given how crucial it is to the race to develop artificial intelligence as well as the energy transition. Take a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN YERGIN, VICE CHAIRMAN, S&P GLOBAL: I think there is a scramble for copper right now. We've -- there's a focus on it, a recognition; how long
it takes, permitting all the above-ground issues, social licensing, costs going up and that the world -- I mean, it's -- if we went back 10 years
ago, we'd have said there was one demand for copper.
It's for buildings and for machines and everything. Then there came the second, called energy transition. An electric car uses 2.9 times more
copper than a conventional car.
Then you now have AI. And in the U.S., we think with data centers, 20 percent of the demand is going to be for data centers, because data centers
are a voracious appetite for electricity and you need copper for electricity.
And then you have increased defense spending around the world. That's copper. And then there's something else that's coming down the road, which
are humanoid robots. They're going to be heavily wired with copper.
So you have these whole new vectors of demand you didn't have. And you have the same copper supply system. So it really is a gap, a potential gap,
that, if the time cannot be shortened for development, if technology doesn't improve, if permitting doesn't improve, then you're going to have a
shortfall.
And that's going to have economic consequences.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Well, as the United States and China race for supremacy in the metals market, resource-rich countries in Africa as well as Latin America
find themselves increasingly caught in the middle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEILA BENALI, MOROCCAN MINISTER OF ENERGY TRANSITION AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT: I think it's very interesting to be together in FMF and to be
able to have this adult conversation and move beyond the traditional discussion around.
Do we want to be exporters of raw material or do we want to process or what do we want to do exactly?
Today, the main question that all of us have to answer is, who do we want to open the door to?
GIOKOS: And where are you going to get the best deal, where it suits you, right?
Because the deals have been skewed for far too long. Let's be honest. Specifically, when it comes to African countries.
BENALI: So we never had good deals. Indeed, if -- you mentioned the example of copper value in international markets. I can give you the
example of zinc, of all the metals and minerals that we trade, critical or not critical.
And if you compare the actual value at export declared, compared to the traded value in LME or any international exchange, you can see that there's
a huge discrepancy, regardless of the country you're looking at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, China's dominance in the supply of crucial raw materials includes lithium, an indispendable (sic) component of batteries for
electric vehicles.
[10:45:00]
Now though, Saudi Arabia is looking to gain a foothold in that segment. Lithium is one of the materials that makes up its vast reserves of critical
minerals, together worth an estimated $2.5 trillion.
The Saudi Public Investment Fund is also the majority owner of Lucid. It's a U.S. electric vehicle company which opened a factory in Jeddah in 2023. I
spoke with the CEO of Lucid to find out how he copes with supply chains so heavily dominated by China.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARC WINTERHOFF, INTERIM CEO, LUCID: I mean, two ways of doing it. Number one is last year, when, you know, particularly the magnet shortage came
about, we had the chance actually to make swift changes because we're vertically integrated and we're able to use magnets that we still had
access to.
Otherwise we would have stopped production. That didn't happen. And that was -- that was very good.
The other topic is, well, we're moving our supply chain for magnets, as an example, completely out of China. So throughout 2026, we're moving away
from our current sources. And we have already found -- we started obviously last year to develop those new sources. And I can't wait to have this.
(CROSSTALK)
GIOKOS: -- what are the sources, where are you getting them from right now?
WINTERHOFF: Right now the material will come from Australia. And so not yet Saudi Arabia. But I can't wait to have it here locally as well.
GIOKOS: So you're seeing a big movement and shift already in the supply chain, where companies are going. We've been way too reliant on China and
that's a risk.
WINTERHOFF: Yes, exactly. I mean, we have already started years ago with decisions to move away from China. I'll give you an example. Our -- the
vast majority of our -- of our battery cells right now, they come out of Japan.
But we, with our partner, we decided already some time ago to move this into the United States for our production there in a -- in a local plant
that has been built in Kansas.
And in June this year, we actually will switch. So the battery cells will then come out of the United States in order to really, you know, localize
the supply chain and reduce our risks for, you know, not having.
GIOKOS: OK, so the -- what we're seeing coming out of the United States and president Trump slapping tariffs, you know, across various sectors --
and tariffs are having a major impact on businesses. Give me the numbers in terms of how it's impacted your business in the United States.
WINTERHOFF: We talked about it. I mean it's a -- there's obviously -- there's some things we can offset. And I think that the current numbers are
something around 12 percent to 15 percent. That is the impact of our cost basis, which is a lot. I don't want to sugarcoat it. I mean --
GIOKOS: Have you passed those costs on to the consumer?
WINTERHOFF: Not yet.
GIOKOS: So you're absorbing those costs.
WINTERHOFF: Exactly. So we have in the -- up until now. But eventually, I mean, we are in the in the business of making money as everybody. So we
will have to pass that along because, otherwise, you know, we are not viable as a business.
GIOKOS: I mean, is there opportunity?
Because what president Trump wants to see is that you start investing into local production?
WINTERHOFF: Right.
GIOKOS: I mean, is there an opportunity to do that and would it be economically viable?
WINTERHOFF: Well, we already do that, obviously. I mean, I just gave that example with the battery cells, which is actually a very big piece of our
bill of materials in EVs.
It takes time. That is the biggest issue because you cannot just, like, I mean, if you -- maybe if you build a computer or so, you can switch maybe
out semiconductors and other things. And if it works, it's fine. You can validate that in a relatively short period of time.
With cars, that is different because you have to validate it very, very thoroughly because, I mean, cars are dangerous in the streets. They need to
work. Yes. So it's a much longer process to validate, qualify new suppliers and then also relocate production locations.
So it takes time. And at the same time, as you said, right now it's still more expensive, obviously, to have localized suppliers in the United
States.
GIOKOS: President Trump is very pro the internal combustion engine, very pro burning fossil fuels and so forth.
Do you see that as a risk for electric vehicles?
WINTERHOFF: Yes, I mean, that is true, that there's a lot of discussion right now. I think what we need to do more of is, when you look at the EV
as technology and what it provides to the consumer, in the past, it was mainly packed with -- it's a sustainable choice.
But if you just look at what it provides, what it allows us to do, what kind of vehicles we can produce and develop, they're actually much better
than the internal combustion engines.
And if you compare the likes for likes, you know, our really competitors, when you look at the specifications of our vehicles and compare it to our -
- to other ICs, we're actually cheaper. And this whole -- this whole discussion about EVs are so expensive is actually not exactly true.
GIOKOS: How's president Trump's narrative and the U.S. government's narrative around vehicles and ICE (ph) versus EVs, reflected in your
numbers, in terms of sales?
[10:50:07]
Have you seen a dent in sales because of that?
WINTERHOFF: Well, I mean, last quarter, for instance, I mean, what happened in the EV industry -- and that's actually a good question because,
end of the third quarter, the tax credits disappeared in the United States.
And the whole industry dropped, the EV industry, with one exception. That exception was us. We actually went up by 31 percent from Q3 to Q4 in the
United States. Yes, which is actually quite remarkable, because if you look at the numbers that others have dropped, 30-40 percent, it's quite, quite
remarkable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: All right, fascinating conversation there with the Lucid CEO.
So I've been covering the minerals industry my entire career. And I've never seen the urgency to expand on supply chains that I'm seeing here in
Riyadh this week. Governments in the past were always very quick to outsource what has always been seen as a dirty industry. Let's be honest.
And China gained the upper hand. But nations are increasingly realizing that this is a matter of national security. And you can see that in the
scramble in Washington.
The big question now, can the West catch up?
Can economic powerhouses in the Gulf become major players?
And if not, if China keeps its stranglehold on the market, how is that going to reshape the world?
And it's a big question and one we'll, of course, be following very closely. Critical minerals on top of the agenda, I think, for governments
around the world.
For now, I'm Eleni Giokos. I'm at the Future Minerals Forum in Saudi Arabia. My colleague, Christina Macfarlane, will be back with more news
right after this. I'll see you soon.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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MACFARLANE: Welcome back.
Now we're ending with a question.
What is the answer to widespread loneliness in the world's second most populous country?
Well, CNN's Mike Valerio reports on a viral app aimed at people who live alone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: "Are you dead?
"Tap to confirm."
There's a new app making waves here in China. It was first called Sileme, meaning "Are you dead?"
But the name changed a few days ago to Demumu.
VALERIO (voice-over): Its purpose is straightforward. It's a daily check- in tool for people who live alone.
VALERIO: So here's how it works. This is the app. This is all of it. And if you don't press this green button, after two days, an emergency contact
you've preselected gets an alert. And then we hope that person checks in with you, potentially visits just to make sure that you're OK.
VALERIO (voice-over): It recently became the most downloaded paid app on China's Apple app store.
So why is an app like this, created by just three people, suddenly so popular?
Well, China's society is undergoing a major shift. More people are living alone, especially in urban areas. Whether it's young professionals choosing
single life or an aging population with fewer family caregivers nearby, safety concerns are rising.
Chinese research estimates that, by 2030, the number of people living alone in China is expected to reach 150 million to 200 million people. For many,
the app offers reassurance. It's a safety net for those who worry about emergencies going unnoticed when they don't have close family members
around.
[10:55:03]
So here's what people are saying about it.
Quote, "This world has finally gone crazy.
"Are there really many people who use this kind of software?"
Another comment says, "I actually had this idea before and hope there's such an app. I really need it."
Finally, this comment, "This 'are you dead?' feature is really great and can help many lonely seniors. At the same time, I would suggest naming it
to 'are you alive?' as it would provide more psychological comfort to the elderly who use it."
We've also noticed more young people in China seem to be mocking themselves by downloading the app and saying they're so stressed and busy they need to
check in with loved ones to say they're alive each day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An app or a piece of technology like this can prevent one person from dying alone or from taking their own life and to have just
one small piece of connection, of course, that is a positive.
But what you would never want for this to be is a way that it that substitutes more meaningful social interactions that substitutes real-life
contact.
VALERIO (voice-over): "Are you dead?" is more than just an app. It's a reflection of changing lifestyles and evolving challenges in China, a
simple tool addressing a very real concern -- Mike Valerio, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Well, I'm not sure if we're ending the show on a happy note there but that is it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is
up after the break
END
