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Two U.S.-Flagged Merchant Vessels Successfully Transited Through Strait Of Hormuz; Hezbollah Leader: There Is No Ceasefire In Lebanon; Billionaire Emaar Developer Mohamed Alabbar On Iran War; United States Ramps Up Economic Pressure On Iran; Cuba Slams Trump Over Threats To Its Sovereignty; Three Dead Amid Suspected Hantavirus Outbreak On Cruise Ship. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired May 04, 2026 - 10:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:45]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to the second hour of the show from our Middle East programming headquarters here in Abu Dhabi. My
name is Becky Anderson. And the time here is just after 6:00 in the evening.
All eyes on the Strait of Hormuz today, the U.S. says two American flag merchant ships have passed through the Straits as the UAE, where I am,
accuses Iran of attacking one of its tankers in the critical waterway.
Three people are dead and others are sick after a suspected Hantavirus outbreak aboard cruise ship. More on what we know about the vessel and the
passengers and crew on board.
And today, a court hearing for the suspect in the shooting at the White House Correspondents' Dinner as conspiracy theories about what happened go
into overdrive.
Well, let's start with breaking news and confusion over what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz as our U.S. military announcing that two U.S.
flagged vessels have successfully navigated the Strait. That's after President Donald Trump vowed to start guiding vessels through the waterway
in what he calls Project Freedom. Iran claiming control of that Strait, of course, the UAE now accusing Iran of targeting one of its tankers there.
Anwar Gargash, who is a top adviser to the UAE president, saying in a social media post, "These attacks confirm that the Iranian threat to the
security and stability of the region is ongoing and cannot be ignored.
Eleni Giokos joining me from Dubai. You've been monitoring what's been going on in the Strait of Hormuz. What's the latest information on what we
have there?
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Becky, and it's been actually quite a busy day. I want to take you through some of the most significant developments.
And I want to talk about the ADNOC tanker that was struck. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs coming out and saying they're condemning this attack.
They're calling it a terrorist attack. And this was an ADNOC tanker that was passing through the Strait of Hormuz.
Keeping in mind, this is just hours after President Trump's announcement of Project Freedom, where he says it's a humanitarian mission to help guide
vessels through the Strait of Hormuz, and really trying to make the distinction between a naval escort and a humanitarian guiding through the
Strait of Hormuz.
The other thing that's transpired today, and this is quite important, U.S. destroyers attempting to transit the Strait of Hormuz. Iranian state media
saying that they fight some shots at these destroyers. U.S. Central Command says that these destroyers are now on the other side of the Strait of
Hormuz in the Persian Gulf. You've got claims and counter claims coming through.
Meanwhile, the UKMTO says that the status in the Strait of Hormuz remains critical, and also saying that all vessels need to adhere to the protocol,
saying that the Omani route is the safe route right now.
Iran, for its part, is saying that they view the Project Freedom that is going to be implemented as a violation of the cease fire. There are many
questions about how they will implement this. Is this a coordination in terms of messaging and information sharing, in terms of the safe route to
take in the Strait of Hormuz. How will Iran respond, and how will the U.S. respond?
President Trump explicitly says that if Iran attempts to target any vessel, they will respond with force. So, we need to keep that in mind.
In the meantime, Becky, also just want to bring to attention for in terms of what happened about an hour ago, not only here in Dubai, but also other
emirates across the UAE, we received an alert for the first time since April the 8th, when the cease fire came into play, we received an alert
about potential incoming missiles, and this was a pretty big shock to the system, because the cease fire has been largely holding.
We don't know what this ultimately means. We're still waiting for more information in terms of the risk assessment and whether we're sort of in a
very different scenario from today. But I think it's very telling in terms of the security scenario that's playing out in the Strait, where we see
maritime confrontations occurring. A lot of experts say we need to watch the seas. Whatever happens in the Strait in the next few days, would, of
course, be determining how not only the United States responds, but also how Iran plans to respond as well.
[10:05:16]
ANDERSON: All right, that's up to speed on what is going on and what is that incredibly important waterway. It's a choke hold at this point.
And Eleni getting you up to speed on what is going on or not, as the case may be there. Negotiations to end the war are ongoing. Eleni, thank you,
but signs are mixed on how well those are going. President Trump has called the discussions positive. But in Iran, the foreign ministry spokesperson
has been on state T.V. saying Iran's proposal to the U.S. does not include any nuclear concessions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ESMAELI BAGHAEI, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): What I can say is that our plan is exclusively focused on
ending the war. The matters that have been mentioned regarding the nuclear field absolutely do not exist in this plan. Right now, we are focused on
the coordinates of ending the war in the region including Lebanon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, my next guest says, Iran does appear to be looking for a grand bargain with these negotiations, posting on X. "This is not merely a
proposal aimed at securing a cease fire or even a formal end to the current conflict, but rather an attempt to resolve the broader U.S.-Iran antagonism
that has persisted for the past 47 years.
Trita Parsi is an executive vice president the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft. He's an expert on U.S.-Iran relations, the
geopolitics of this region. He joins me now from Washington.
Trump says that he is having very positive discussions with Iran after the latest developments around the Strait of Hormuz that we've just been
reporting on, how do you assess the current state of play?
TRITA PARSI, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT: Well, he certainly doesn't look particularly positive. So, it's
quite confusing to read his tweet. I think one thing we should remember is that we are now about 10 days or so after the date that the administration
believed or was told by certain groups would lead to the collapse of the Iranian economy as a result of this blockade. And it's clearly not
happened. And I think that's part of the reason why you're seeing an increasing desperation on Trump's end, considering at least measures that
he earlier on did not want to take, such as bringing us warships into the Persian Gulf.
Throughout the entire war, the United States kept its Navy about 3000 kilometers away from Iranian shorelines in order to avoid getting any of
those ships sunk by an Iranian missile, which would cause significant American casualties, of course, which Trump successfully managed to avoid.
If he wanted to avoid that under those circumstances, I have a hard time seeing as to why he would be serious about considering it now. It's one
thing to tweet about it, it's one thing to threaten. It's a completely different thing to actually do it. And I don't think he really will, unless
he's ready to go into another round of war that would be different from the previous one, because he will give the Iranians far more Iran -- American
targets than he did last time.
ANDERSON: The UAE has accused Iran of targeting one of its tankers in the Strait, Dr. Sultan Al Jaber, who is a minister here, and also the head of
ADNOC, which owns that vessel that has been attacked. Said earlier, "It is unacceptable to hold the Strait of hostage and use it for threats and
economic blackmail. The freedom of international navigation is non- negotiable and not subject to bargaining, and the legal status of the Strait as an international waterway must not be changed."
Dr. Al Jaber is doubling down on what is a consistent message from the UAE, which is closely aligned with the U.S. position on this war. Gulf
countries, of course, aren't at the table. But what role do you believe they're playing in these talks, and how much influence do they have over
the outcome?
PARSI: I think certain Gulf countries are still playing a role in the diplomacy. The question, of course, is if the diplomacy is going anywhere.
And you know, countries like Oman and Qatar, who played a critical role before, have also continued to play that role behind the scenes, even
though the venue of the talks have moved to Pakistan.
But by and large, the Gulf countries have been significant victims of this war. Some of them, of course, supported this war. Most of them opposed it
and opposed it vehemently.
But we're now in a situation in which the Kuwaitis, for instance, have not exported a single barrel of oil for more than 30 days. That's it's been 30
years since that type of a scenario existed before.
So, this is extremely painful for a lot of these Gulf countries, not to mention Asian countries, who are now faced with fuel shortages. Here in the
United States, we're actually only seeing a very limited amount of economic repercussions as a result of this war compared to what the rest of the
world is experiencing.
[10:10:12]
ANDERSON: It is also extremely painful for Iranians, for Iran as an economy, I just spoke to the ICRC president who was just in Iran. Have a
listen to what she just told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIRJANA SPOLJARIC EGGER, PRESIDENT, ICRC: What I saw in Iran is a vast population, 90 million people. They're in a constant anticipation of the
next war, and that defines the daily decisions children are, for the most part, not back at school.
There is also an uncertainty about when this whole situation is going to get better for them, knowing that if there is the renewed escalation, it
will become very bad and it will turn against them. This war risks, if it continues, becoming a war against civilians, not only in Iran, but also in
the neighboring countries.
ANDERSON: Was it your sense that the Iranian Foreign Minister believes that this could escalate again, that there could be kinetic action on Iran
again?
EGGER: Nobody excludes that this could escalate again. No one. It's something they have to consider a possibility. I can't reveal the content
of my conversations, but the concern for civilians is very acute, especially amongst humanitarians.
But you know, we have to be aware that whatever we have seen over the last few years in the Middle East has eventually turned against the people,
against individuals, against women and children, and this is what people fear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So, Trita, what do you make of her comments, and how much longer do you believe that the Iranian authorities can continue this?
PARSI: I mean, first of all, she's absolutely correct. This is been a devastating situation for the Iranian civilians. There isn't a full return
to normalcy. There is that constant fear that war will erupt again. This is also part of the reason why there is support amongst at least pockets of
the population to make sure that any end to this is not just a fragile cease fire, but actually a complete end to the war and to the conflict,
because it is intolerable to live in a situation in which you constantly know that war may erupt again, which is what a ceasefire would be and what
a ceasefire that would be prolonged would be. So, they want the complete end to this.
The Iranians, however, at least the government, believe that they can sustain this much longer than the United States can, not because the U.S.
will pay a higher political economic price. It certainly will not, but because Trump cannot tolerate the political price that will be incurred if
this goes on for too much longer.
And again, we spoke about it last time that this blockade has ended up becoming a highly costly thing for the U.S. as well, even though it's
imposing a significant cost on Iran.
If war is restarted. And I think the Iranians are making themselves very ready for it. I don't think they're hoping for it, but they are not, in any
way, shape or form, discounting that likelihood, mindful of the fact that this is what Trump already has done twice in negotiations. I think the
Iranians are of the belief that there's nothing the U.S. can do that fundamentally changes the situation as it was during the first phase of the
war, meaning Iran will retain escalation dominance.
It will strike, particularly against the UAE in this next phase of war. It will continue to escalate horizontally, and it will put a tremendous amount
of pressure on the global economy and on the USS, or on Trump's political situation.
And his political situation is already starting to become extremely dire with upcoming midterm elections and angrier and angrier members of Congress
on the Republican side. They're not venting it publicly quite yet, but privately, they're increasingly expressing their concern to the White House
that this war needs to end, otherwise they're going to lose their seats.
ANDERSON: That's on the Washington -- sorry, that's on the U.S. side. You know, what about the pressure, if at all, on Iranian authorities?
I mean, you know, I hear what you say, what you what you're saying. You know, they have meaningful leverage over the Strait of Hormuz. But beyond
that, you know, we're hearing these competing narratives. But beyond that, what does Tehran really have at this point, aside from a population not all
of whom disagree with what's going on, but a broad majority don't want to see Iran and Iranians being held hostage like this.
[10:15:08]
PARSI: Certainly. The question then, of course, is who started this war? And it wasn't the Iranians. So, I don't think they're necessarily thinking
that they're being held hostage by their own government here. People I speak to in Iran are actually very upset about the ceasefire because they
thought that the way this war should have ended is that it should have ended entirely, and they don't want to see negotiations that lead to just a
prolonging of a ceasefire that leaves them in a situation in which they know war can break out at any point.
And I don't think there's any trust whatsoever in the majority of the Iranian population in terms of believing what the Trump administration is
saying, or that Trump will actually honor his words in a negotiation. So, I think there's plenty of anger amongst the Iranian population directed at
all different parties when it comes to this.
But when it comes to what the Iranian government thinks that they can tolerate in this, I think we have to look at history and just recognize
that at the end of the day, this is a country and a leadership that has been under a tremendous amount of sanctions and pressures for 47 years. All
of those have, at times, been believed by the United States of being some sort of a silver bullet that would bring the Iranians to their knees, force
them to capitulate, force them to accept America's terms. And none of them have proven to be that so far, including this latest blockade, which,
again, as I mentioned earlier on, was supposed to have brought the Iranians to their knees 10 days ago, and they still haven't.
So, I think that if the strategy is still focused and centered on some sort of a silver bullet of an escalatory, coercive move that brings the Iranians
to their knees, it's not going to work. The only thing that will work, and the only thing that has worked in the past, is real, disciplined
negotiations, such as those that the Obama administration pursued for several years that got to an agreement that was accepted and encoded,
codified by the Security Council, and that was upheld by the Iranians up until the United States walked out of that.
ANDERSON: It was the worst deal ever, according to Donald Trump, when he ripped it up at the back end of his last administration.
All right, it's good to have you, Trita. Thank you very much indeed.
You just heard me speaking to the ICRC Chief Mirjana Spoljaric, she described any collapse of the cease fire as catastrophic to the people
living in the Middle East and the midst of conflict. And asked to what extent the ICRC is working with the mediators and stakeholders to ensure
that that doesn't happen. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPOLJARIC EGGER: We maintain a dialog on compliance with international humanitarian law to rules of war with all parties, and that includes Iran.
We speak to the military as well on what needs to be taken into account to protect civilians in the event of an escalation, because the
responsibilities are the same on all sides. All states bear the same level of responsibility to protect civilian populations. There's no difference
between the U.S. and Iran, as far as the Geneva Conventions are concerned.
ANDERSON: Your team recently delivered the first cross border humanitarian aid to Iran since the war began, that included, as I understand it,
generators, hygiene kits, kitchen sets, mattresses and other important essential goods. How far do you believe that will help in having Iranians
sort of cope? I mean, what more can be done at this point?
SPOLJARIC EGGER: We have brought 15 trucks into the country in support of the Iranian Red Crescent. It's mainly medical supplies. It will warn the
kids its certain medicines that they cannot procure due to sanctions and where we benefit from humanitarian carve outs.
But imagine if there were a renewed escalation and millions of people started moving or were in the need of health support, we wouldn't be able
to cope with the fallout.
I mean, the Iranian Red Crescent is a strong organization with a lot of volunteers, millions of volunteers, potentially, but none of the
humanitarian preparedness will be able to adequately respond to the needs of the people if there were a renewed escalation at scale, and if that
escalation took a long time to, you know, come to a cease fire again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And you can see more of my interview with Mirjana Spoljaric tomorrow. We discuss more about her concerns inside Iran, as well as other
crises points, including Gaza and Lebanon, that is on tomorrow's CONNECT THE WORLD.
Well, I want to stay with Lebanon, where the health ministry reports more than 2600 people have been killed in the country since the beginning of the
war two months ago, and the ministry says nearly 400 people have been killed since the cease fire agreed by Israel and Lebanon went into effect
in mid-April. The U.S. is excited. Ended that agreement by three weeks, but on the ground the truce is falling apart by the day. Hezbollah's leader
today said there is no ceasefire in Lebanon in a statement following the latest Israeli evacuation order.
[10:20:26]
Oren Liebermann joining me this hour from Jerusalem. So, what do we understand to be the very latest on the ground, Oren?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Becky, it looks harder and harder from where we sit as we watch what's happening along the Israel
Lebanon border to see a window for diplomacy. Despite that, the Trump administration is still trying to push for it. The next step should be,
what would be a third direct meeting of Israeli and Lebanese ambassadors under the auspices of the Trump administration in Washington. Although no
such date has yet been scheduled, and President Donald Trump is still trying to make happen, what would be a landmark meeting between Israeli
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Lebanese President Joseph Aoun.
In fact, the U.S. Embassy in Beirut sort of promised on social media that such a meeting could bring about the restoration of Lebanon's territorial
integrity, meaning a withdrawal of Israeli forces U.S. help on reconstruction. And yet it's very difficult to see any of that happening,
at least not in the immediate future here.
So far, Aoun had declined to take a call with Netanyahu a couple of weeks ago, and it's unclear that he'd be willing to meet him in person because of
what's happening on the ground.
Virtually every day for the past week or more, we have seen more Israeli evacuation warnings for southern Lebanon, including in areas outside of the
Israeli occupied zone there within about 10 kilometers of the border or so, and that means at least the scope of Israel's strikes are expanding
somewhat, pushing beyond that area occupied by Israel.
Meanwhile, the Lebanese Ministry of Public Health has said that nearly 2,700 people have been killed in Israeli strikes over the course of the
past two months, Israel has continued to try to go after Hezbollah militants and infrastructure, they have destroyed Hezbollah tunnels in
southern Lebanon, and we have very much seen Hezbollah fight back. Their leader Naim Qassem, saying there is no cease fire and there will be no
yellow line or Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon, promising, vowing, in many ways, that Hezbollah would win this ongoing conflict, as we've seen
more drone and rocket attacks from the Iranian proxy there.
And it is that ongoing conflict between Israel and Hezbollah that puts the entire cease fire at risk. The only thing that might be able to salvage it
or get it sort of back on track, would be pressure directly from Trump himself, both on Israel and on Lebanon. But it's unclear if and when such
pressure will happen, Becky.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Oren, thank you very much indeed. It is just after 20 past 5:00 in Jerusalem, 20 past 6:00 here in Abu Dhabi.
Still to come, more of my interview with the CEO of Emaar Properties, somewhere he sees that real estate market in Dubai heading during this
conflict with Iran.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:25:13]
ANDERSON: Well, more now of my conversation with the man who helped build modern Dubai, quite literally from the Berkeley to one of the world's
busiest retail destinations.
Mohamed Alabbar, founder of Emaar Properties, which is widely recognized as Dubai's biggest real estate developer, says, that despite the Iran war,
demand is holding up, he says any slowdown may, in fact, be good for the market.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOHAMED ALABBAR, FOUNDER, EMAAR PROPERTIES: We had years of 30, 40 percent growth on an annual basis, just because this amazing place we live in,
that's number one.
Number two, when this conflict started, we told all of our staff, we're not going to reduce staff. We're not going to reduce salaries. Now, I have
40,000 customers where they are making monthly payment to us for properties that are under development, under construction, right.
In the month of December, we had about 820 people asking to defer their payment. During the war, that number went to 1050 maybe. The number now is
750, so that tells you a lot about the confidence in staying within and the -- and these purchases, my backlog is 45 billion U.S., so that tells you
really how customer feels and how confident they are about the market.
ANDERSON: So, after five years of rapid growth, where are you seeing the most significant slowdown or correction that you seem to be sort of
perfectly happy with. Can you put an approximate figure on those sort of market adjustments? Is it realistic to suggest 10 to 15 percent adjustment
in oversupplied areas in the market for example?
ALABBAR: You see, real estate, I think probably people will tell you five percent drop in value. We are the largest. We control 30 percent of the
market, not even $1.00 drop. We don't drop prices. Our price is still there. Why? Because we know this is temporary, and we can -- we build
quality, we deliver great services our -- to our customers.
But let's also be realistic after this event, there was effect on hospitality, there is effect on airports, there is effect on airlines. But
we think this is just a temporary, we don't think this is going to last too long. Maybe that gives us a chance to kind of reorganize ourselves and get
ready for the season. Our season will start probably from October.
Let's go through three, four, five months if there is a slowdown, that's fine. We've been -- we've been doing such tremendous business all these
years. Let's handle four months, five months, Becky, what's the problem?
ANDERSON: Is that good for the market, in fact, is that what you're saying, it wouldn't be a bad thing if you see a bit of an adjustment?
ALABBAR: Honestly, I think it's good for the market, because we've been running breathless for about five years, and I think just to take a
breather, you know, I think, but our sites, I mean, we have about close about 90 sites. They are on full throttle because I want to make sure that
I deliver all these homes on time. And that's really moving forward quite well.
ANDERSON: Mohamed, I've known you for a very long time. I know that you absorb pressure better than anybody else. Look, Dubai Mall, one of yours,
of course, is one of the most visited places on Earth, attracting, what, more than 100 million visitors -- north of 100 million visitors annually.
What has been the impact on footfall of the slowdown in tourism since the conflict began? How does Emaar sustain downtown Dubai's retail and real
estate vibrancy in this climate?
ALABBAR: They just looked at these numbers last night, Becky, typically, we get about 300,000 people a day in Dubai Mall. During the war, we were
getting 270,000 a day.
Last night, we were 290,000, so we were almost like a five percent down. And that tells you that trajectory is in the right direction. I think
people are getting their confidence back, but we're still missing the tourists. And I think, as a tourist comes back, then it will be another
story.
ANDERSON: And you think those tourists will be back by sort of September? That's your sort of bet at this point?
ALABBAR: You know, human beings have short memory. I think social media driving us crazy. There's so many stories every single day we forget what
happened the night before last night. But again, you have to have substance that you are safe country, you are well organized country, you take care of
your customers. And I think maximum, in my humble view, October, November, by that time, we renovate some hotels and fix them up at least.
ANDERSON: I want to talk about the strategic vision outside of the UAE as well, Mohamed, because I think this is really important. You've got a
massive real estate and retail footprint connecting the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, billions of dollars in investments.
ALABBAR: In Europe as well.
ANDERSON: And Eastern Europe as well, I want to talk about that.
[10:30:01]
There has been a lot of talk recently about the changing nature of the UAE's relationships across the Gulf and beyond in the Middle East. Given
you are heavily invested, how much are regional politics and Gulf relations now affecting your business, or likely to affect the business going
forward?
ALABBAR: Again, we have gone through some of these conflicts in the past. My companies are in the region for the past 20 years. You know, cousins,
they disagree a little bit with each other, and I think another three months, four months, everything is back.
But during all that period of time, trust me, business is normal. Everything is going well. There is no really obstacle that I can -- that I
-- that I can see. And from, at least, from what I've seen in the past, you know, people have misunderstandings, but listen, you are neighbors. That
you can never change the map.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Here are your headlines this hour:
The U.S. military says two U.S. flagged vessels have successfully transited the Strait of Hormuz. It's the first claim of success in a mission
announced by President Donald Trump, Project Freedom to guide ships safely through the Strait.
Iran's Navy says it prevented any U.S. ships from entering the waterway and fired warning shots near U.S. destroyers operating in the area.
Well, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is in hospital in critical but stable condition. News came Sunday evening in a statement from his
spokesperson. It did not say why the 81-year-old is hospitalized. Giuliani, of course, was dubbed America's Mayor after the September 11th terror
attacks.
Well, three people have died, and at least three more are sick on board a cruise ship in the North Atlantic. Authorities suspect an outbreak of the
hunter virus caused the deaths. Passengers and crew are currently being kept in lockdown off the coast of Cape Verde.
Well U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent claims President Trump's economic fury is suffocating the Iranian regime, as Washington ramps up
pressure on Tehran. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES TREASURY SECRETARY: Three weeks ago, the president gave the order to Treasury myself, to begin economic fury. And
the way to think about that, we are running a marathon over the past 12 months, and now, we are sprinting towards the finish line, and I can tell
you that we are suffocating the regime, and they are not able to pay their soldiers. This is a real economic blockade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:35:02]
ANDERSON: Well, that blockade likely to loom large when Donald Trump meets China's Xi Jinping this month. An unfinished Iran war could give Xi the
upper hand in talks with Trump, sources tell CNN.
Just days ago, the U.S. imposed fresh sanctions targeting a China-based oil operator tightening its grip on Iran's energy lifeline. China is pushing
back though, continuing to buy discounted sanctioned oil, and positioning itself as a key clearing market for crude from Iran, Russia, and Venezuela.
Well, I want to look more at the macro-economic reality that we are looking at here. I want to speak to Ken Rogoff, who is professor of economics at
Harvard University and a former IMF chief economist. I was just remarking that I think you and I first spoke about 30 years ago, so, it's good to
have you, Ken. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
KEN ROGOFF, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: A little -- a little less.
ANDERSON: I want to talk about the petro dollar -- a little less, maybe.
I want to talk about the petro dollar. And let me just remind our viewers of that framework. Crude oil price in dollars and carried around the world.
Energy importing nations must hold dollars to buy it, and energy experts warn us -- earn it when dollars, when selling it.
Fundamentally, has the Iran conflict reinforced or weakened the petro dollar system?
ROGOFF: Oh, I think, it's going to weaken it for sure. The -- that on coming on top of the trade war, when countries are looking to trade around
the United States. And, you know, it's not a hundred percent of oils priced in dollars, it might be, you know, 80 percent is priced in dollars. And
China already, you know, wants to import in its own currency.
But this is part of a -- it's a very important part of a larger battle of who controls the financial pipelines of the world, which right now, the
U.S. does. It's one of the choke points that the U.S. uses to put on sanctions, and China wants to resist, and this is an opportunity to try to
weaken it.
ANDERSON: So, the alternatives, as you are pointing out, the petro yuan. That system gaining more traction right now, as China buys oil from
sanctioned countries like Iran, and up to recently, of course, Venezuela.
Is this move by the U.S. then, to your mind, to squeeze off supply from Iran, as much about stamping out the Chinese currencies sort of strength,
as it were, against petro dollars, as about pressuring Iran?
ROGOFF: Well, it's one piece of it. Can you imagine, if you are China, and you are getting, you know, the large percentage of your oil, and at the end
of the day through the Straits of Hormuz, and at the end of the day, the United States is controlling the Straits of Hormuz.
I mean, you know, China fought back against the trade wars pretty cleverly with the rare earths, where it controls 90 percent, and we need them for
like, everything electronics. And the U.S. is looking for traction. So, it's certainly about the dollar yuan, but it's also about the U.S.-China,
the in fact, in a way, the Iran war is really ultimately a geopolitical fight with China.
ANDERSON: And during this conflict, we have heard talk of dollar swap lines, dollar, you know, credit swap lines, dollar funding centers in the
Gulf and in Asia. I want to hear how Scott Bessent explains and frankly defends this move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BESSENT: Swap lines, whether it's from the Federal Reserve or the Treasury are to maintain order the end the dollar funding markets and to prevent the
sale of the U.S. assets in a disorderly way. So, the swap line would both benefit the UAE and the US, and, as I said, numerous other countries --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That is the succinct argument for these credit swap lines -- currency swaps. Is Bessent admitting there that there is a risk of the
disorderly sale of U.S. assets, if these measures are not taken?
ROGOFF: Well, absolutely. I mean, the Middle East is holding a big share of the foreign holdings of treasury bills. And if they come under pressure
because their pipelines are bombed, the war gets worse, they are needing to use their cash, that's going to make them sell treasury bills. They hold
this long-term treasury debt. It's going to push up interest rates, if you have some of the people who hold them, sell them, particularly in a panic,
disorderly way.
[10:40:02]
And what he says, I think, is completely right. It's the traditional argument. It goes back to things the United States did for the United
Kingdom in the late 50s and 1960s.
It also is because I think the United States needs to show some support for its allies in the Middle East, who are questioning what the United States
is doing. They are questioning, you know, can we trust the United States? We allowed these military bases to be built because they were to defend us,
but they seem to have made us a target instead. Are you really representing our interests? So, I think this is also a political move. But the way
Bessent explained it, that's exact -- textbook. It's exactly right, and it's quite reasonable.
That said, I was surprised by it, because it's not something you usually do, except in an extreme duress. Usually, wait for the duress to happen
before you do it. But maybe they are seeing that in the Middle East in a way that I don't think everyone has yet.
ANDERSON: Interesting. It's good perspective from you. Useful one. Thank you very much indeed, Ken, for joining us.
Let's not leave it another decade or so before we speak. It's good to have you.
Well, officials in Cuba are furious about President Trump's threats to take over the island. Here is the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On the way back from Iran, we'll have one of our big -- maybe the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft
carrier, the biggest in the world. We'll have that come in, stop about 100 yards offshore, and they will say, thank you very much. We give up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The action, once again, dangled as a possibility on Friday in Florida. He was there to sign an executive order expanding U.S. sanctions
on Cuba and its affiliates. Let's go to our man in Havana. Patrick Oppmann has the very latest from Cuba.
What are you hearing from your sources? What is the reaction there to Trump's latest sort of taking over Cuba comments?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, very clearly, Becky, negotiations are stuck here, because, you know, the U.S. has been insisting on the Cuban
leadership, some of them stepping down, getting out of the way, they say, releasing political prisoners, opening up this island economically and
politically.
And to make that point more clear, on Friday, as you said, the Trump administration placing new economic sanctions on really, anybody involved
in the Cuban economy, who invests here, who has anything to do with either the Cuban military or the Cuban government, going to make it much tougher
for banks to do business with Cuba.
You know, you couldn't imagine there could be any more sanctions on a place already, as there are on Cuba, and yet, the Trump administration finding
new weak points to try and strike out.
So, you'll be hearing the Cuban government fire back angrily, saying that they are willing to confront any kind of military action here, that they
are willing to die, that they are making plans that we have seen basically every day now, of people getting ready, you know, you talk to Cubans, and
they believe, many of them right or wrong in this question of when, and not if, there will be some sort of military action against this island.
So, despite that bluster, despite, you know, the rallies we saw on May Day, hundreds of thousands of people taking in the street, supposedly to support
their government, many of them believe it. Many of them were told to go out and protest, as they have done in the years past, against U.S. policies.
But the reality is, as well, as the Cuban government has said, you know, the last only shipment of Russian oil that they have received in the last
several months is running out, and once again, this island is on the brink of energy collapse.
So, while there's a lot of tough talk, the reality is they are running short of fuel. Only days left until, once again, we -- began to experience
those crushing blackouts and make -- becomes even more difficult to get gasoline fuel for cars. So, that is a cold reality despite their tough
talk.
ANDERSON: Yes, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed. All a nervous wait for passengers on board a cruise ship in the North Atlantic,
as health authorities trying to work out what was behind the deaths of three passengers. More on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:46:27]
ANDERSON: Three people have died and at least three others are sick, following a suspected outbreak of hantavirus on a cruise ship, which is
currently in the Atlantic Ocean. The ship currently anchored in Cape Verde, off the west coast of Africa, having begun its journey in Argentina.
Local authorities are not allowing passengers to go ashore. It isn't yet clear how the infections occurred. CNN Larry Madowo speak to me -- spoke to
me earlier with an update. Here is that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We know that there are two crew members on board the ship who are also exhibiting symptoms that are
consistent with hantavirus. There is only one confirmed case.
This is a British national who is currently undergoing treatment in Johannesburg. But two other people on the crew right now, one is Dutch, one
is British, are exhibiting symptoms and they require urgent medical care, according to the operator of this Dutch flagship Oceanwide Expeditions.
Authorities in Cape Verde are not allowing anybody off the ship.
They have been there since Sunday, though they have sent medical crews on board to take care of them. There is a press conference ongoing shortly in
Cape Verde. Maybe we'll find out if there is a decision. But the operators say they are considering sailing to either Las Palmas or Tenerife so that
they can disembark and get some medical treatment to these two crew members who require urgent medical assistance.
This ship has been sailing for the last seven weeks. It started off in Choya, that is in Argentina. It's often called the end of the world. And
many cruise ships that head on to Antarctica begin there. They have gone on to Santa Helena, the British overseas territory, and other parts of the
Atlantic before they ended up here on the west coast of Africa. And there are a lot of passengers here.
There is 23 nationalities, 19 Brits, 13 Spaniards. There's 17 Americans. Most of the crew appear to be Filipino, 38 from the Philippines. And one
American travel blogger who is on the ship posted this tearful video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry. We're not just headlines. We are people, people with families, with lives, with people waiting for us at home. There is a
lot of uncertainty, and that's the hardest part. All we want right now is to feel safe, to have clarity and to get home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADOWO: So, much uncertainty, Becky for so many people who signed on to this beautiful cruise that takes 42 days according to an itinerary posted
on ocean expeditions web site, Oceanwide Expeditions. They go through some of the most beautiful, remote islands, following some migratory birds'
patterns. And hantavirus, ideally does not transmit from human to human.
Humans can catch it if they come into contact with rodents like mice or rats, usually through the saliva, droppings or urine. And it's not clear
how this could have happened again.
The World Health Organization, Becky, is saying it is still working with authorities. There with authorities there, doing more lab testing,
epidemiological investigations, and gene sequencing to know exactly what happened here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Larry Madowo, reporting for you.
You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Ahead, facts are competing with conspiracy theories after last month's shooting at the
White House Correspondents Dinner in Washington. We'll get you more on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:51:18]
ANDERSON: Hearing is set for today in Washington for Cole Allen, who is the suspect in last month's shooting at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
The judge wants to look into how Allen is being confined. He is charged with attempting to assassinate U.S. President Donald Trump.
Well, social media has been flooded with conspiracy theories over that attack. Here is what political commentator, Keith Olbermann had to say not
long after the incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH OLBERMANN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Just because Trump and his filth have lied to you about everything every day for 11 years, that's no reason
for you to get cynical and think that was staged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: OK, the perspective of Keith Olbermann. Now, I want to bring in CNN Donie O'Sullivan. Look, there are conspiracies abound, not least over
this incident. Just explain what we are seeing out there.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky. I mean, this is a real product of the modern phenomenon -- this is a product of today, right? In
terms of how we consume information, how people share information. We're all used to getting pretty much anything we need, on our phone, at our
fingertips, anytime we want.
So, what happens in a major breaking news story is there is this information void, and that now more than ever, is getting very quickly
filled by people just coming up with B.S. explanations for what has happened. And of course, with a major event like the White House
Correspondents Dinner last weekend, many people were rushing in with essentially, mostly people trying to say that the shooting was in some way
staged.
One of the more bizarre sort of conspiracy theories is based off something that the White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said just before the
dinner to Fox News. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It will be funny. It will be entertaining. There will be shots fired tonight in the room. So, everyone
should tune in. It's going to be really great. I'm looking forward to hearing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'SULLIVAN: So, that clip has got millions of views online. People trying to claim that when she says there will be shots fired there, that, that in
some way, that, that was foretelling the shooting. Of course, the White House Correspondents Dinner. And what she was referring to is it's treated
the speech at the dinner is traditionally something where the president pokes fun at himself and also at the press. And, of course, that was a
widely anticipated speech.
But you can just sort of see how really, frankly dumb takes like that can take off online, and have, you know, a world of their own, basically as
facts try to get out there.
ANDERSON: And these conspiracy theories were out there pretty quickly. I mean, I saw them. Anybody uses social media, I'm sure many of our viewers
will have seen these takes out there incredibly quickly, sort of, you know, in the -- in the minutes, not hours, after the actual event, which was, of
course, televised, what's been the White House response, Donie?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. I mean, the White House, which, of course, itself, often dabbles hidden in misinformation in some of its public statements, are on
the defense over the last week, saying that they are trying to put out as much information as they can, correct and accurate information about what
happened.
Look, this is also happening in a very broader context here, if you take a step back, because of Trump's -- because of the war in Iran -- with Iran.
A lot of Trump's prominent former Trump supporters are now speaking out against the president. And in recent weeks, in fact, just the week leading
up to the White House Correspondents' Dinner, we reported on a story how some of his former supporters, including Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker
Carlson and others, are expressing skepticism about what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, the attempted assassination there, back in July 2024.
[10:55:18]
Of course, but Departments of Justice, both under President Biden and President Trump, have found that Thomas crooks, the would-be assassin
there, acted alone, that it wasn't part of a broader conspiracy.
But what you are kind of seeing here is that Trump, who has over the past decade sow -- enthusiastically sowed seeds of doubt, right? As fanned the
flames of conspiracy theories. Some of this is now coming back to bite him. How much of this all sticks? It's hard to say.
But, you know, I think, you played that Keith Olbermann tweet there, who is a very prominent liberal commentator online in the U.S. I think this is a
reminder that, you know, sometimes people look at these conspiracy theories, they say, well, you know, it's only Trump supporters, or it's
only people on the right, or Republicans that believe this stuff, anybody can sort of fall down that rabbit hole, especially, if it sort of plays
into our pre-existing biases and what we want to believe.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. It's always good to have you.
(CROSSTALK)
O'SULLIVAN: Thanks, Becky.
ANDERSON: Donie O'Sullivan, who gets down those rabbit holes professionally for CNN, and has some terrific reporting that we platform here on this show
and across the network. Thank you. Thanks, Donie. That's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. CNN continues. Of course, "ONE WORLD" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
