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Defense Secretary, Joint Chiefs Chairman Give Update on Iran War; Caine: Iran Attacked U.S. Forces 10+ Times Since Ceasefire Announced; Hegseth: U.S. Forces Won't Need to Enter Iranian Waters or Airspace; Celebrities Offer Take on the Theme "Costume Art". Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 05, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Right, I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi from our Middle East programming headquarters, where it is half

past four in the afternoon Tuesday, May the fifth. And you've been listening to the U.S., Defense Secretary and the Chairman of the Joint

Chiefs of Staff discussing the situation in the Strait of Hormuz.

Our team is standing by to dig into what we just heard. Paula Hancocks with me here in Abu Dhabi. Zach Cohen is in Washington. And Zach, let me just

start with you. I think the headline out of that is that the ceasefire is not over, according to Pete Hegseth, it holds, he says.

And he went on to sort of draw a line between Operation Epic Fury, which was the operation, the kinetic military activity on Iran until the

ceasefire a month ago, and this new operation in the Strait of Hormuz called Project Freedom, which was launched, announced and launched by

Donald Trump just yesterday.

And we have seen some sort of tit for tat attacks between the U.S. and Iran since the launch of that project. What did you make of what we just heard?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Becky, you're exactly right. And I think it's very important to note the distinction that

Pete Hegseth was making very clear that the determination, the threshold for what the status of a ceasefire, is a political determination, not a

military one.

And that's why you saw Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Dan Caine, really side step that question when he was asked about those Iranian attacks, saying

U.S. forces have been attacked more than 10 times, but not to the threshold of violating the ceasefire.

He was pushed on what that threshold is, and he said something to the effect of that's above my pay grade, and it's a political decision. So, you

are seeing sort of the different roles there that Hegseth and Caine both serve. Hegseth, of course, the political leadership of the Pentagon, while

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Dan Caine is the military, the senior most military general and advisor to Donald Trump.

And I think it's really interesting as well, as you pointed out that there, they really went out of their way to distinguish this new initiative

announced by the president to guide ships to the Strait of Hormuz as separate and distinct from Operation Epic Fury, the military campaign that

President Donald Trump has said is on hold at the moment, therefore justifying his decision not to seek approval from Congress.

So there is a little bit of a semantics game happening here on the U.S. side, as the president clearly is still pushing for some sort of a

negotiated resolution acknowledging what has been clear, really to everyone the whole time, that the closure, effectively, of the Strait of Hormuz is

the greatest point of leverage that the Iranians have, and it's one that they essentially claimed in the early days of this conflict in response to

those initial waves of U.S.-Israeli military strikes.

So, it's important for people to remember that the Strait of Hormuz was open to international shipping and to the international community prior to

the start of this conflict, prior to that first wave of U.S.-Israeli strikes. But now the U.S.-Israeli trying to cast the current situation in

the strait and the current military posture there as defensive and responsive to the Iranian actions that really were responsive to the

initial U.S.-Israeli strike.

So, we are sort of again at an impasse here. It is a task acknowledgement by the U.S. that this is a problem, and this remains a key problem that

cannot largely be solved just by military force alone.

ANDERSON: And there are two things, Paula, let me bring you in here that have been going on over the past what sort of 24 hours now. The launch of

Project Freedom, described today by Pete Hegseth as separate and distinct from Operation Epic Fury, led by the U.S., started, of course, on February

the 28th.

That is one thing Project Freedom. the other was a series of attacks by Iran on the UAE and indeed on Oman, significant attacks on the UAE here

yesterday. And yet still, Pete Hegseth says the ceasefire holds.

[08:35:00]

And there's been a lot of questions in the Gulf about whether or not those attacks effectively brought to an end that ceasefire. It's absolutely clear

from the U.S. perspective, that this truce holds at this point.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely and something we heard from General Caine as well as he was talking about the kinetics. He called them

low level kinetics, and he also said its low harassing fire right now, it feels like Iran is grasping at straws.

So, the military really following what we heard from the U.S. President, trying to play down what we saw on Monday, which some may have thought was

shaking an already fragile ceasefire to the point that you could see these hostilities escalate. But the fact is, I mean, wars end with escalation or

negotiation.

We have both going on at this point. And the Trump Administration and the Pentagon really does seem to be trying to downplay the escalation part of

it, but it was serious for the United Arab Emirates. I mean, we've just heard that the air space over the UAE has been partially closed, that the

airlines can only use certain routes now.

This is a NOTAM notification, because they are in the position now, once again, for the first time since April 9th, that they are under fire from

Iran.

ANDERSON: And both my kids and your kids are now back to online learning until at least May the eighth which we can cope with, of course, but you

know, just gives you a sense of the state of alertness that there is here. Zach, let me bring you back in. Pete Hegseth was asked about the

relationship with Israel, a question that was sort of leading he stepped in.

He said, this question is leading to a question to me, addressing the correspondent, the reporter who was asking, basically, you're suggesting he

said that, you know, Donald Trump was pulled into this war, led into this war by Israel. This is his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: On the false premise that somehow President Trump is being pulled in by Prime Minister Netanyahu to any of

these actions, and that's where you're going just to be clear, President Trump has led at every step of this based on his view of American interest

in America first.

And we're grateful that Israelis have been very capable partners at many steps of this, and they may have some objectives that times that are

slightly different than ours, but there's only one hand on the wheel ultimately directing this, whether it's Project Freedom or previously

Operation Epic Fury, and it's President Trump.

So, we're grateful for their input, their insights, the existential nature of the threat they face from an Iranian bomb, the capabilities that they

can bring to that, but ultimately, the coordination will happen with the leadership of President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Israel may have some objectives which are different from ours. At times, he says we are grateful for their input, but it is Donald Trump's

hand on the tiller, or wheel, as I think he described it. Your thoughts.

COHEN: Yeah, this goes back to one of the very early issues that was raised in reporting at the very early days of the conflict, that Israeli Prime

Minister Benjamin Netanyahu really was a force behind Donald Trump's decision to ultimately start this conflict, and is one that the president

has forcefully denied over the course of the last several weeks. But look, I think this is a really important question, is in terms of, how did we get

here, right?

I think there is always the White House has said that Iran posed an imminent threat to the United States, one, and that's been disputed

repeatedly, and remains something that the Pentagon and the White House have not really squared with the reality on the ground as we learn more

about Iran's nuclear ambitions, Iran's remaining stockpile of highly enriched uranium, Iran's remaining military capability even, and now Iran's

effective control of the Strait of Hormuz.

These are all issues that really do not line up with the idea that Iran posed an imminent threat to the United States. We saw Hegseth address this

again today, really repeating something we heard in one of the early press conferences that Iran had was essentially trying to create this shield of

domestic or of missile capability to protect their nuclear program, and therefore justifying the idea that Iran posed an imminent threat.

And I guess it does go back to whatever your definition of the word imminent is. But at the end of the day, this idea that the Israelis dragged

the U.S. into this conflict the White House, and now we're hearing the Pentagon really forcefully pushing back on that. But still, it's hard also

to square that with this idea that now the U.S. is trying to tamp down on any suggestion of the ceasefire may have been broken.

They're also drawing a line a little bit between the U.S. interest and Israel's interest here, and saying, look there, Israel is going to do what

they're going to do from here on out, even though the two have worked hand and glove together to this point.

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So, it is difficult to separate the interests of the U.S. and the United States here, when the two countries both very much started this conflict

together.

ANDERSON: Paula, let me bring you back in. Zach, obviously speaking to the Strait of Hormuz and the fact that it is effectively closed because of not

just the Iranian blockade effectively, but now the U.S. blockade as well. This is what Pete Hegseth said about the Strait of Hormuz.

Since Operation Freedom began, we have a lane of safe passage that commercial shipping can pass through. Ships transiting show the lane is

clear. Iran, say they control the strait, they do not. Hundreds more ships are lining up to transit. CENTCOM is in touch with ships, shipping

companies and insurers.

We have established, and this is a quote from him, a red, white and blue dome over the strait. We prefer this to be peaceful, but we are locked and

loaded. A message to Iran, let innocent ships pass freely and to our allies, he said, this is a temporary mission for us, that being the United

States, we are stabilizing the situation. We expect the world to step up.

HANCOCKS: So, what he is expecting, what President Trump is expecting, is that Europe and the Asian countries which rely on the energy from this

region to get involved. He has the U.S. President, been saying this for weeks now, that Europe and South Korea, Japan, Australia, should get

involved.

It's saying that they're looking to set the conditions and then they will hand it over. But consistently these countries have pointed out that they

did not support this war. They told about this war or consulted ahead of time, and they don't want to be dragged into the war.

We do know that there are plans in place. There are negotiations in place, headed up by the UK and France, has more than 30 countries involved to try

and figure out how they can facilitate the passageway through the Strait of Hormuz, but really, when we've been speaking to shipping analysts about

this, for example, what they're saying that this Project Freedom really is banking on is the perception that it is safe to cross the Strait of Hormuz.

We have heard from many analysts that there are not necessarily hundreds of ships lining up waiting to cross, because it is a dangerous situation for

them. Insurers do not want to be insuring the ships at this point. The owners of these extremely expensive vessels don't want to be risking the

vessel, the cargo and certainly the crew.

So, it is certainly a case of perception as well as to whether or not it is safe to cross.

ANDERSON: Despite the shots being exchanged between the U.S. and Iran in the Strait of Hormuz and attacks by Iran both on the UAE and on Iran. Pete

Hegseth says the ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran is not over it holds. More of our breaking news after this quick break, stay with us.

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ANDERSON: Well, the ceasefire is not over. That was the message from the U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth at the Pentagon, just moments ago. He

and Joint Chiefs Chairman Dan Caine let it laid out U.S. efforts to protect ships in the Strait of Hormuz in what is known as Project Freedom.

They say it is strictly defensive in mission. I want to bring back CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson, who is in Islamabad in

Pakistan. Nic, in the past 24 hours, we saw the launch of this Project Freedom, described today as separate and distinct from Operation Epic Fury.

The operation that was launched back on February the 28th which is now in a state of ceasefire, a ceasefire that Pete Hegseth is determined is holding.

What are you hearing where you are?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, Pete Hegseth putting it on President Trump to decide whether or not a ceasefire is

holding. And I think that's the way most military generals, not the Hegseth as a general, but most military operatives would view it that it's really a

political decision about whether or not the other side has broken the ceasefire.

Dan Caine saying that there have been 10 incidences of these provocations, but clutching at straws. What I found really informative and listening to

this press briefing, which actually took some pretty tough questions, as you've been talking about from the audience there.

One asking hack set about how they see the differentiation between what the -- I think, the questioner, what Hegseth referred to as Tehran, the

political negotiators, and the IRGC, the military hardliners. And he kind of framed the answer was framed this way that, you know, we hope that -- or

recognizing that there was a difference between the two.

And it's we hope that the IRGC, who they described as sort of perhaps beyond command and control, don't think that's necessarily true, but taking

and seeing a difference between the political side in Iran and the military side and the military side responding yesterday.

And the Pentagon here taking the view that they are, at the moment, taking on the IRGC, the military side, as opposed to the political leadership, who

are the ones that are still very much engaged, and have been, you know, over the past 24 hours, absolutely engaged in conversations about talks to

de-escalate all of this.

So, I'm instructed to sort of take that view by listening to what Iran's Foreign Minister said last night. Obviously, the Iran -- some in the

Iranian political side, the moderates you might call them, denied that they'd actually targeted the UAE, obviously clear judgment will be

understood by the United States, by Gulf partners, by Pakistan mediators here, when they can look at the satellite analysis, they'll know who did

it.

But put that to one side, the Iranian Foreign Minister said everyone can see that the military approach is not going to work here, right now, from

what we've witnessed yesterday in the Strait of Hormuz. And he goes on to, you know, tell the U.S. and the UAE to avoid getting dragged into a

quagmire by what he calls the spoilers.

But here's the kicker, and here's the piece that helps us understand the picture, and the question that Hegseth took. He was then the foreign

minister, was then questioned by Iran's National Security and Foreign Affairs Committee. And they challenged him at the end by saying, we're very

grateful for the diplomacy you're doing.

I'm paraphrasing here. We're very grateful for the diplomacy that you're doing, but you really need to take a tougher line and use all the

resources, national resource, national resources at your Iran's availability here, clearly meaning the military, clearly meaning the IRGC.

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That was a rap on the knuckles for the foreign minister by the hardliners. And what the United States is really tussling with here, and I think this

came out in the press conference, is between the hard liners and the more moderates. Trump is trying to get a conversation going with the moderates

to get a political off ramp.

That's clear. That's why the ceasefire is still enduring, because he still hopes that can be achieved. The military is taking on the IRGC and trying

to teach them a lesson to back down. I'm not clear that that's going to work, but that's what's happening. And I think I found that very

instructive to hear the military side, except this split in Tehran, and how they're trying to break the IRGC away, essentially by teaching them.

Actually, it's the U.S. that's in control of the Strait of Hormuz. I kind of feel that's where we're at in terms of ceasefire and talks at the

moment.

ANDERSON: I was struck by one of the questions that Pete Hegseth was asked in the press conference just moments ago. He was asked whether the U.S.

actually has a strategy. He said the strategy is laser focused. Project Freedom, he said is distinct from the strategy, which is and then sort of

didn't go on to lay out a strategy, which is perhaps part of the problem here.

Many commentators saying, well, you know, at this point, nine weeks in, at the beginning of May, it is still to some very unclear what the U.S.

strategy actually is. Nic, your thoughts?

ROBERTSON: Yeah, and I think everyone's been struggling with this, you know, from the get go, and we are nine weeks in. And I think if we were to

take a snapshot of what we heard today and a snapshot of what we are hearing at the beginning of March, we would sort of be able to see that

actually a strategy and a coherence is emerging.

It may not be as clear as previous administrations. It may not lack the sort of down range effects, if you will, the long-term look that you would

expect for a joined-up policy between the White House, the Department of Defense, and the Department of State. It kind of lacks that State

Department follow through.

But it is slowly getting there, this recognition that they're dealing with two parts in Tehran, that they're trying to deal the military here, trying

to deal with the military effects. Look, we could draw an analogy here with 2003 in the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And you go in with military but you

don't have the State Department there for a follow on to ensure stability.

And we all know what happened in Iraq. This is something different. But again, it's having, as you say, this joined up strategy across all

departments in the government, principally defense state and the White House, and that component, as you say, is lacking, but I do sense a little

bit more that it's beginning to emerge.

ANDERSON: Interesting. All right, Nic. Look, I want to take a very quick break at this point. Stand by, folks. We'll be back right after this.

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ANDERSON: The minutes out from the start of our prime-time news show from our Middle East programming headquarters. "Connect the World" just time to

do the following. Fashions finest came out for this year's Met Gala. The theme was Costume Art. Attendees were encouraged to express their own

relationship to fashion as an embodied art form.

Yes, that was what they were told to do. Beyonce, one of the events co- chairs, returned to the gala for the first time in 10 years. She wore this silver skeleton gown and was accompanied by her daughter Blue Ivy.

Madonna's outfit featured a black ship on the top of her head piece, as well as a long gray train held up by assistants on the red carpet.

We take a very quick break. Stay with us. "Connect the World" is right after this.

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