Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Israel Pays Tribute to Victims on Third Anniversary of Hamas Attack at the Nova Music Festival; Pakistani Troops in Saudi Arabia as Part of Mecca Defence Alliance; Iraq's Future after Withdrawal of U.S. Troops; Trump Administration Presses Russia for Details on Plague Lab Worker's Death; Some Trump Supporters Voice Frustrations ahead of Midterms; The Rise of "Loneliness Influencers". Aired 10-10:45a ET
Aired October 07, 2026 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): And welcome to what is the second hour of the show from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky
Anderson in Abu Dhabi, where the time is just after 6:00 in the evening.
And we begin with a day of remembrance, Israel paying tribute to the more than 1,200 victims of the October 7th Hamas attack. Today marks the third
anniversary of the massacre.
Some of the most profound commemorations have been taking place at the Nova victims' memorial. More than 370 people were killed by Hamas-led gunmen at
the music festival in southern Israel, 44 were abducted.
My colleague, Jeremy Diamond, spoke with Rachel Goldberg-Polin. Her son, Hersh, was among those abducted on October the 7th and later died in the
tunnels under Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN, MOTHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN, HAMAS HOSTAGE: I remember at certain points saying, I don't understand.
Why didn't he just die in the in the bomb shelter with his best friend, Aner Shapira?
The fact that Hersh might have been able to help some people with staying alive is very comforting. I hate that he suffered so. I hate that. But I
also know, I know from Orr (ph) that Hersh knew that we were trying. And that's also really important to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the Hamas-led massacre has had a profound impact on this region, of course, triggering the war in Gaza.
And you're looking at live pictures from Gaza this hour, where more than 74,000 Palestinians have been killed in the Israeli offensive launched
three years ago today. That's according to the Palestinian health ministry.
The displaced residents of Gaza who made it through the war are reflecting on life on this anniversary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): These three years were hell. We have been wasted. Our children stopped going to schools and studying. Our
homes were destroyed. Our children were murdered, our women were widowed. Our children were orphaned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Nickolay Mladenov is the high representative for the board of peace.
And in an op-ed in "The National," which is a regional media organization newspaper based here in Abu Dhabi, he writes in part, quote, "The question
before Israelis, Palestinians and the wider region is not whose suffering matters more.
"It is whether enough has been learned to prevent a continuation of the cycle of pain and suffering."
Well, Mina al-Oraibi is here with me in the studio. She's editor in chief of "The National."
And you commissioned that piece and it's a -- it was a good read today, an important read today. Three years on and a board of peace later, Mina, the
devastation in Gaza is significant. Nickolay Mladenov's piece speaks about Gaza and the choice ahead for Palestinians and Israelis. And you've spoken
to Nikolay recently.
What's your sense of progress and options at this point?
MINA AL-ORAIBI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE NATIONAL": So there is a plan of how we get from the current status, which is a frozen situation, even though
there are still continued strikes.
Even this morning, there were further strikes on Kamal Adwan Hospital and the death of paramedics there. And, of course, Israelis still feel
incredibly insecure and concerned about what happens to the future.
But the plan that Nickolay Mladenov is pushing is the only real option at the moment. And that's the argument he makes in the op-ed that he wrote for
us.
And that is to have, first of all, an agreement on Hamas disarming, decommissioning of their weapons but also bringing in an international
stabilization force with different countries, including Arab countries like Morocco being part of that, and then getting to a political process inside
of Palestine.
Now there are many, many elements that could go wrong. There are many spoilers but there are also many people that are trying to make this work.
At the U.N. two weeks ago, there was a launch of a reconstruction fund, $2.45 billion on the table.
[10:05:09]
Ready to go in for reconstruction in Gaza. Everyone is really worried about winter setting in and the incredible suffering that continues in Gaza.
In his op-ed, Nikolay closes by saying, well, the dead deserve remembrance. The living deserve a future.
And I think that's what he's compelling, Israelis and Palestinians, of course -- the Israelis go to the polls in three weeks, just under three
weeks -- he's trying to tell them that also, when you're making your decision, think of the future.
How can we get this plan that everybody has agreed to, that was that great signing in Sharm el-Sheikh?
We all covered it. You have a global international push for this. There is a U.N. Security Council resolution that supported it. But the reality is on
the ground. Israeli government is still really not allowing for this to come into place.
And also the Palestinians have huge amount of work, from governance to decommissioning of arms from Hamas. And again, be it Egypt, Qatar, the UAE,
others, are trying to keep that momentum, not to lose it.
Because if we get stuck in this state, where Israel just wants to do a security measure, we're not going to come to a resolution.
ANDERSON: And we've talked about the straight line from what has happened in Gaza to this wider region and the continued conflict, which, sadly, is
escalating through into Yemen.
Mina, stay with me, because that's what I want to speak about next, to a potentially, very difficult situation. And we want to get the very latest
on what is going on in that escalating conflict in Yemen.
CNN learning that Pakistani troops are in Saudi Arabia, as part of what is known as the Mecca Alliance, to help protect the kingdom from Houthi
attacks. This is a Saudi-supported offensive by the Yemeni government against the Houthis.
At present, the Saudis are absolutely in the crosshairs of the Houthis with attacks on the airport, oil infrastructure and the like. So this is an
important part of this story.
The news coming just two days after officials from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Turkiye agreed to move forward on steps toward implementing joint
defense measures at an emergency meeting in Riyadh. Ivan Watson is with us this hour from Islamabad in Pakistan, with more on this deployment in Saudi
Arabia.
Ivan, what more do we know from Pakistan at this point?
IVAN WATSON, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the spokesperson for the Pakistani military, in an exclusive interview with
CNN, has confirmed for the first time that there are Pakistani troops on the ground in Saudi Arabia.
And that they fall under the umbrella of the Mecca Alliance, this brand-new collective security organization, that was only established just two months
ago exactly, including Saudi Arabia, Turkiye and, of course, Pakistan. So let's take a listen to what the lieutenant general had to say to me just a
few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. AHMED SHARIF CHAUDHRY, PAKISTAN MILITARY SPOKESPERSON: But I can do confirm that we, the forces of Pakistan, are already there. That I can
assure you. And --
(CROSSTALK)
WATSON: Pakistani troops, some kind of military personnel are already on the ground in Saudi Arabia as part of the Mecca Alliance?
CHAUDHRY: The Pakistani troops have been there for decades in multiple capabilities, have been there for decades in Saudi Arabia.
As I said that this alliance is not something that has come out in vacuum. So there is a sustained diplomatic, political, military relationship,
people-to-people relationship between Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Tokyo.
So I can share with you that the Pakistani forces in multiple capabilities and domains are already there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: Now the lieutenant general would not be drawn out, would not provide details.
How many Pakistani troops are under the ground now under the defense commitments of the Mecca Alliance?
What are their capabilities?
Could more be on the way?
Could they be involved in any operations across the border into Yemen against the Houthis?
He said that's basically all classified right now. But he then went on to use some very specific language that is completely echoing words that we
usually attribute to the NATO military alliance, saying an attack on one is an attack on all.
And that's effectively what the Houthis have been doing. They've been targeting Saudi Arabia as part of this rapidly escalating conflict. And now
Pakistan and Turkiye say they will come to Saudi Arabia's defense.
I must stress the speed of this. The three countries signed this agreement, the creation of this alliance, just two months ago. And now, just two
months later, Pakistan says its troops on the ground will fall under, defend Saudi Arabia as part of that. That's at incredible speed.
[10:10:02]
The Pakistani officials are stressing, however, that their defense cooperation with Saudi Arabia goes back generations and it does not just
involve training, for example, Saudi Arabian forces but that there's a deep relationship here.
And I do have to stress that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia signed a mutual defense treaty back in 2025. But there are some important differences here,
Becky.
In 2015, Pakistan, its parliament voted down a request from Saudi Arabia to join in efforts against the Houthis in Yemen. It doesn't sound like that is
happening this time around.
As far as Turkiye and how far it could come and go to assist Saudi Arabia, its ally, we know that the Turks would require parliamentary approval of
vote for any deployment of combat troops to Saudi Arabia.
There is some military-to-military partnership in existence right now. And I think what we're also seeing is it doesn't take much to make a switch
from troops already on the ground, assisting Saudi Arabia, to adding them to this collective deterrence agreement.
And that's one of the signs, the symbols, the messages that's trying to be sent here. You have Turkiye with its NATO army, Saudi Arabia with its
wealth, Pakistan armed with nuclear weapons, trying to show the world that they will stand arm-in-arm against a threat like the Houthis.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Ivan. Thank you.
Mina's still with me.
And look, let's remind ourselves, Yemen, of course, is an age-long conflict. It's caused one of the most -- worst humanitarian crises ever.
What happens in Yemen, of course -- and let's remind ourselves in the first instance of the people of Yemen and what they are living through.
But what's happening in Yemen, of course, doesn't stay there. And you've just seen the report there from Ivan in scoring out the wider regional
involvement.
What implications does this bring for the region?
AL-ORAIBI: Well, as you said, Yemen, ever since the Houthis did their coup, took over Sanaa in 2014, there has been a concern that what the
Houthis do in Yemen not only bring devastation to the Yemenis themselves but, of course, direct threat in Saudi Arabia, direct threat to Bab-el-
Mandeb.
And with everything that's happened with the Strait of Hormuz, now you have Bab-el-Mandeb also under threat. This affects the world in terms of trade,
in terms of energy supplies.
And what happened was, you know, recently, in the last couple of weeks, the Houthis were able to get to Bab-el-Mandeb and now they've been repelled
from that. And it seems that the Yemen government forces, with support from Saudi Arabia and international support, are able to push back.
That's important. They seem emboldened now and they want to go all the way to Sanaa. That would resolve something that has been, you know, bringing
devastation since 2014.
How likely is that to happen?
Not sure. As you said, Saudi Arabia is under direct attack from the Houthis. And at the beginning of this year, it seemed that the Houthis
stayed out of the war. Now they are the spearhead of Iranian proxies, actually bringing a huge amount of destabilization to the region.
So the Pakistani-Turkiye-Saudi Arabia agreement at first was very much defensive. And they all said that. Now it seems that "defensive" means that
Pakistan, potentially Turkiye in the future, but at least Pakistan is supporting the Saudis in the defense.
These countries, all three countries have huge armies. It is much more about the political support and showing not only the Houthis but also their
backers, Iran, that there are consequences to this ongoing attacks.
I mean, Saudi Arabia airports, energy infrastructure are being attacked. Now the attacks are enough just to be a nuisance, not to stop everything
but to be a nuisance that has to be dealt with.
ANDERSON: The other Iran-aligned militia, of course, are in Iraq to Saudi's north, of course, another issue in this wider regional conflict.
And I do want to talk about Iraq. You're an absolute expert on Iraq. So I've got you here.
You know, a really important moment just in the past week, which, to a degree, I think, has been somewhat overlooked, was the official withdrawal
by U.S. troops from Iraq after two decades. The country is left with a, at present, huge deficit. Its currency has just been devalued significantly
this week.
The prime minister, of course, dealing with these Iran-backed militia, promises to the U.S. that he would rein those in; at the moment, still has
support, it seems, from the United States.
[10:15:00]
Certainly this Washington, this U.S. administration.
How does Iraq navigate where it is at now and where it is hoping to go?
AL-ORAIBI: You're right that the U.S., without much fanfare, ended its presence in Iraq on the 30th of September. And it is coming at a time
where, again, when we're talking about the Houthi threat in Saudi Arabia, we're not talking about, where is the U.S. military role in here?
They're not to be seen. And I think that is very, you know, a determined move by the United States. And that's the same with Iraq. They have left,
including from the Kurdistan region of Iraq, that really did rely on U.S. support throughout this, that deadline was also supposed to be met by the
disarming of militias.
And yet they didn't disarm. That has been kicked down the road until supposedly June. I don't think it will happen. And so the current
government still has nine ministerial positions to be filled. So the government in itself is not even completed.
Precarious politically, precarious in terms of the security situation, with these militias attacking Kuwait and other Gulf countries recently. The
energy situation and the flow of oil is still really troubled, on and off, and therefore having a major deficit.
So Iraq is in a precarious state and the U.S. doesn't seem too involved. On the other hand, Iran feels emboldened in Iraq. And so how they will manage
this period of time will show whether Iran wants to continue extending its leverage over Iraq or they'll lie low until the heat is off. And then
they'll reinstate their position.
I would say that the Iraqi government is facing all these crises. But still, as you said, has Washington's support. And the prime minister was
just recently in New York. He had meetings with both president Trump and secretary Rubio.
And the message he was trying to get across was, I'm going to need your help. But I don't know how much interest there is to really bail out Iraq
politically. And certainly no bailout economically is coming out unless from within the country. And the corruption situation continues to keep --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: -- which we've talked about at length on this show. Important to remember that Iraq's economy is 90 percent dependent on oil exports. And
this past eight months, when getting that oil out through the Strait of Hormuz, of course, has been a massive issue, they're working other ways of
doing it.
But you know, it's been particularly difficult this year with, as you rightly point out, an economy already in a, you know, bad state and the
corruption story still, you know, a very, very real one.
It's always good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.
Mina Al-Oraibi in the house for you.
Right. Still to come, Washington's calls for information grow louder as Russia stonewalls on a plague scare. More on that after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:20:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: The Trump administration is pressing Russia for answers about the death of a woman working at an anti-plague lab in Siberia. Multiple
sources say the White House is scrambling to plan for a potential plague fallout. But Russia's reluctance to share information, they say, is
complicating those efforts.
CNN's senior national security reporter, Jennifer Hansler, has been following this story extensively. She's joining us live from Washington,
D.C.
It's good to have you. Jennifer. Thank you.
What are we hearing from the administration and what do they know so far?
And what's left to hear from the Russians at this point?
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, mostly what we're hearing from the administration at this point is what
they do not know about the situation with this lab in Siberia.
They have escalated now their pressure on Moscow to share answers, issuing what's called a demarche. That's a formal diplomatic communique, often
issued in protest to seek answers on what exactly has transpired here.
Now we know U.S. officials have been in touch with the Russian government since at least last Friday. However, the information that Russia has shared
thus far has been limited.
Secretary of state Marco Rubio alluded to some of the frustration around this dearth of information when he was speaking with reporters in Iceland
yesterday. Take a listen to some of what he said on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's incumbent upon Russia to obviously share more information with the world. The more we can learn
about what happened, then the better all of us can be in a position of responding. And maybe, you know, there's nothing there. Maybe it's bigger
than we thought. We don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANSLER: Becky, he went on to say that it would be reckless to speculate on what may or may not be taking place here. However, he said that the
world and the U.S. needs to know so that they can act, quote, "accordingly and appropriately."
And this kind of gets to the frustration that we're hearing writ large here in Washington, D.C.
How can they plan around what could potentially be a public health emergency or something beyond that if they just do not have these answers
from Russia?
Of course, president Trump has claimed that he was going to speak with Russian president Vladimir Putin on the matter. Moscow has said that there
is no such call lined up at this point. However, there could be a call today around President Putin's birthday, perhaps, where they do discuss
this.
However, there is still a lot to be learned here. There is another concern as well in terms of what Russia is saying, whether that is the full truth,
the full accounting of what has happened here.
So they are looking for any degree of transparency from the Russian government when it comes to what happened at this anti-plague lab, Becky
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Jennifer. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed.
You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. There is a lot more news ahead, so stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:25:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi, where the time is 6:25. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. These are your
headlines this hour.
And the French prime minister is set to address the nation in the coming hours, as his government tries to end weeks of student unrest. Protests are
spreading across the country, with student blockades disrupting schools and arrests and violence reported at some of those demonstrations.
Moscow is trying to quell fears of a global outbreak, saying the risk is low after a plague scare. This comes even as Russian authorities introduced
new disease control measures at local hospitals. Questions persist over what caused the death of a woman who worked at an anti-plague lab in
Siberia.
Israel marking the third anniversary of the October 7th Hamas attack. Memorials for the more than 1,200 victims have been held at homes and along
roadsides. Israel held its official state memorials on Monday. The October 7th attack also triggered Israel's war in Gaza, of course.
ANDERSON: President Trump is heading to San Antonio, Texas, today hoping to boost Republican support in a closely watched Senate race just weeks
before the U.S. midterm elections. He will be holding a rally there tonight.
But as CNN's Elle Reeve found in Virginia, even some longtime Trump supporters are now voicing frustration with his presidency.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITEY TAYLOR, OWNER, TRUMP TOWN USA: Come here. Let me show you the hottest two items that we have in the store.
And the Wokeness ice cube maker when it comes --
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's Trump's face?
TAYLOR: Yes.
REEVE: It's Trump's ice face?
TAYLOR: Yes.
REEVE: OK, that is kind of cool.
TAYLOR: The liberals, they bought -- I designed this glass myself.
Says, "I took a shot for you, now take one for me."
REEVE (voice-over): Things aren't like they used to be at Whitey Taylor's Trump Town USA.
TAYLOR: It's not selling like it was.
REEVE: At the peak, how much were you selling a day?
TAYLOR: We had a lot of $12,000 days, maybe a $15,000 day occasionally but yes.
REEVE: And now what is it?
TAYLOR: Well, $1,500, $2,000, sometimes hit $3,000.
REEVE: It's a really big falloff.
TAYLOR: Well, it is. It is.
REEVE (voice-over): When we first visited Taylor's store in December 2023, sales were better and they gave us a sense of the energy around Trump
before he won the Republican nomination to be president again. Taylor took issue with our report.
TAYLOR: You said the place was almost vulgar. That was your conclusion.
REEVE: Well, there are --
TAYLOR: Oh, gosh.
REEVE: Let's go look at them. Let's go look at them. Let's go look at the Trump balls.
TAYLOR: I'm still selling a lot of them because of you. Yes.
REEVE (voice-over): Taylor disputes the idea sales are down because Trump supporters are mad at the president and says sales will pick back up once
he leaves office.
TAYLOR: They'll come here by the droves and say, what do you got, man?
I know you're still there. So we'll be here waiting on it.
REEVE (voice-over): But his customers say they see public opinion turning.
STEVIE LOVELL, TRUMP TOWN USA CUSTOMER: I've seen a lot of Trump supporters just say, heck with him, put his sticker upside down or not fly
his flag or put a red zero on it. You know, I've seen a few of those. Very few people still support Trump.
REEVE (voice-over): Stevie Lovell says he still backs Trump and he'll vote straight ticket Republican in the midterms. But he has a lot of criticism.
LOVELL: I'm not a supporter of the war in Iran. And just like later on, we found out information about the war in Iraq. We found out that we shouldn't
have been there. This thing that's going on in Gaza is horrible. I think it's more horrible than what's going on in Iran personally.
REEVE: What do you think about the ICE raids and arrests and stuff?
LOVELL: The ICE raids?
If you give people absolute power, they abuse it. I listened to a report that was very, very reliable. It showed where Trump had made more money in
the office in his position than any other President.
REEVE: Yes, that is true.
LOVELL: Yes, it bothered me a little bit. But I still like him. Profit isn't a dirty word but it kind of does bother me a little bit that he's in
office and he's gaining a lot.
REEVE (voice-over): Two-thirds of Americans say Trump has made the economy worse. And majorities say the Iran war and tariffs have hurt them
financially, according to a September CNN poll. The president is at his lowest approval rating ever.
BARBARA KEITH, TRUMP TOWN USA CUSTOMER: What I don't understand is how can we make agreements with, like, Venezuela and yet the gas prices are still
up?
What's going on there?
REEVE: What do you think about that?
KEITH: Well, I don't think it's Trump's fault.
REEVE: OK.
KEITH: You know, everybody blames Trump for everything. It's a whole bunch of people.
REEVE: Do you think, though, that the war is making gas prices worse?
KEITH: Well, that's what they blame it on. But explain it to me when you still have oil but yet you already raised the prices but you're still using
the oil that you had. They do it all the time. That's why I don't think grocery prices are going to go down, because they saw that we could afford
it, so they're going to keep them high.
JAMIE VARELA, TRUMP TOWN USA CUSTOMER: My son's 17, my daughter's 14. My grocery bill is anywhere between $800 to $1,000 a month. When you're going
to the store and you're paying $5 for a pineapple --
[10:30:00]
REEVE: Yes.
VALERA: -- then you've got to choose fruit or gas, like, it's really, really hard.
REEVE: Do you think any of the responsibility for those high prices falls on Trump?
VALERA: Yes, because of the war.
REEVE: Are you going to vote in the elections coming up?
VALERA: Yes.
REEVE: Who do you plan on voting for?
VALERA: I'm not sure yet, to be honest.
REEVE: What are you weighing?
VALERA: Well, to be honest, I need someone who's going to continue on with closed borders.
REEVE (voice-over): A couple customers brought up that they felt like people weren't as nice to each other anymore and that people need to come
together and not be so mean about political differences.
VALERA: Doesn't matter what you believe in, what religion or if you think the color purple is better than the color pink. Like, all that matters is
that they bleed, we bleed, we're human. If you don't agree with someone's opinion, that's fine. That's what our forefathers fought for, is that
everyone could have their own opinion.
REEVE: Wait, wait, wait, wait. You're saying you want people to be nicer to people. But look at the thing that you're buying.
VALERA: Oh, I do believe she should go fuck off. No, I can say she should kindly go fuck off but I don't think that she should be around at all.
REEVE: I know. But you see what I'm saying, that there's a little bit of, one might say, a contradiction.
VALERA: OK. Wait, wait, what if I said, please tell her to go fuck off, take a hike.
Or I could say, (INAUDIBLE).
REEVE: Right. Sure.
VALERA: That's what I'm talking about. The way you say things versus how you say things can be completely taken different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm freezing my balls off.
TAYLOR: The balls, he's freezing his balls off.
Shut up, Trump. We've had enough of you today.
REEVE (voice-over): Taylor says Trump's made him millions of dollars.
TAYLOR: People ask me all the time, say, oh, so when are you going to close?
You know, I said 2040.
They said 2040, why?
I said, well, it gives all the Trump kids time to run through the office first.
REEVE (voice-over): Elle Reeve, CNN, Boones Mill, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: On this show, we bring you the headlines every day. And that's important. But you could be forgiven for feeling anxious and somewhat
isolated when you look at so much of what is happening in the world. I do sometimes. And I want to take some time now to explore that idea of
loneliness. Let's start here.
A growing trend where people who live alone and claim to have few or no friends document their lives on social media. CNN's Leyla Gharagozlou
reported on that for "CNN CREATORS." Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have a single friend. And the scary thing is, this could happen to you because, if you met me at 21, you would never have
predicted my life would look like this.
LANA ISA, LONELINESS INFLUENCER: Hi, my name is Lana and this is my Friday night in the female loneliness epidemic.
LEILA GHARAGOZLOU, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Creators like Sarah-Jane Hoadley, Lana Isa and Manu Hap (ph) show solo living solitude and, in some
cases, a life without friendships.
GHARAGOZLOU: Our society is built around being social because humans are fundamentally social beings. Having friends can literally help you live
longer and human touch can reduce stress.
GHARAGOZLOU (voice-over): And yet, despite being the most connected we've ever been, we're facing a loneliness epidemic.
[10:35:02]
Which some, like Dr. Olivia Remes, an assistant research professor at Cambridge University, said is exacerbated by social media.
DR. OLIVIA REMES, UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE: There was an interesting study that was done in 2018. And it showed that, for the people who restricted
their social media, these people experienced a significant drop in their loneliness and depression levels compared to people who didn't restrict
their social media use.
So certainly putting boundaries around how much time you spend on social media and just browsing the web in general, being exposed to technology,
can be incredibly helpful for people's loneliness and also mental health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, you can find Leila's full piece online. That's just part of it. Social media and smartphones then maybe helping us to connect.
But can they also be held responsible for making us lonelier?
Well, our next guest explores the link between loneliness and technology in her new book, "The Infrastructure of Belonging."
She wrote that Isolation is exacerbated when, quote, "the technology meant to make it easier for us to connect to each other has led us to feeling
further apart."
And to discuss this further, I'm joined by Masuma Ahuja here in the studio.
And we talk about -- and I remember thinking about this at the launch of the internet, online communities, you know, the idea of communities being
this great place where people communicate.
But that's so often not the case. And there is such a debate between the correlation about -- about the correlation between technology and
loneliness. So just start there.
How much is our growing use of tech influencing us, our social life and our sense of wellbeing?
MASUMA AHUJA, STRATEGIST AND JOURNALIST: Well, thank you for having me. And I think it's -- in many ways, technology delivered on the promise,
right, that you can connect with someone anywhere in the world. That's incredible.
Right?
People can come together online, find people who love the same things they do. That was the promise.
But what's happened is we spend so much of our time doomscrolling on our phones. I'm sure anyone who's watching this, you could agree. We just feel
a little bit worse every time we put our phones down. Then the world feels awful.
And that's because so much of the technology that we are spending our time on is not built or optimizing for connection.
It's optimizing for our attention, right?
It's optimizing for us to stay in there. So if it makes us upset, if it makes us angry, if it makes us feel like the world is awful, the news is
horrible, we're going to sit and watch and be like, wow, that's incredible. Like, that shouldn't be happening. I'm going to like that. I'm going to
share that.
And then the algorithms show us more of that and more of that. And we don't feel connected when that happens, we feel worse about the world. We don't
feel like people are great. We don't feel like we understand the people around us. It makes us feel lonelier.
ANDERSON: Leyla, speaking to a sort of, you know, a Gen Z generation, you know, loneliness can affect everybody, of course. But I think, you know,
it's clear that there's, if we're talking about a loneliness epidemic, it's very specifically in this younger generation.
That younger generation, you know, is also, for example, in France and across Europe, out on the streets, protesting over housing, social
conditions, overall economic concerns. And in your book, you argue that the economic insecurity and loneliness are deeply connected.
Can you just expand on that for us?
Yes, it's -- it is very connected because, when we are lonely or when we're isolated, we are disconnected from each other. Right?
The thing that I explore is social infrastructure, the infrastructure for connection and belonging has eroded, where social media has, in theory,
replaced that. But it hasn't really.
So people are isolated from each other, which means opportunities can't flow as easily between people. Ideas can't flow as easily. Resources can't
flow as easily. All -- yes, right. Like ride to the airport or help someone find a job or help someone figure out, you know, where to rent an
apartment.
All of that is so much harder because people don't have that support network around them. They just have people there, scrolling on their phones
and watching their videos and saying, oh, yes, let me like that. That isn't a support system.
ANDERSON: We're entering a new phase, of course, as the adoption of an -- implementation and adoption of AI increases at quite the rate. People using
chatbots as therapists, companions, in some cases turning to AI during moments of personal crisis -- another reason why they might use an online
chatbot as a therapist.
How worrying is that?
AHUJA: I think we're at this interesting inflection point where we were at the same kind of inflection point with social media maybe 10 years ago and
we're at that with AI, where the rise of the -- use of these chatbots for connection is, it's a moment of, how do we want to design this?
Do we want to design our chatbots so people get off the chatbot when they seek connection and are directed to finding human connection?
[10:40:00]
Or does the chatbot keep engaging with them?
And there are studies, like there's a Harvard Business School study that said, for people who are using AI companions, some of the most common --
commonly used ones, 37 percent to, I think, 43 percent of people, when they try to end the conversation, the chatbot uses emotional manipulation
tactics to keep them engaged. Right?
So the FOMO, the guilt, like basically just like stay in this conversation, which is making you connected to the chatbot but not to other people, which
is a problem.
ANDERSON: You know, I guess I should say, ironically, there has been a rise in loneliness influencers, people on social media. And as -- and
Leila's report speaks to that and I do push people to that full report on our digital platforms.
People who document solitary routines and lives with few or no close friends, hoping to garner this enormous following, which is not a
community, as you rightly put out.
What do you make of that?
And is that -- you know, I mean, some will argue that that is a step forward in accepting loneliness at this point.
AHUJA: I think it's a step forward in understanding how widespread loneliness is and that it isn't something that is stigmatized and belonging
only to people sitting alone in their basements and like, it's not an individual problem, right?
Like that's part of what I argue, is it's not a problem if you're bad at making friends, it's a problem of the way the world is designed. And when
you see so many people with hundreds of thousands of followers, talking about how lonely they are, suddenly we're realizing it's widespread.
ANDERSON: I want to end this on a more positive note --
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: -- if there is one to be had. I mean, you know, it does feel -- and, you know, you don't -- you don't need to see the statistics. I mean,
we all have sort of, you know, our own personal stories of friends and, you know, and the like, who are living in a sort of -- it feels like we're
living in a loneliness epidemic.
Thirty seconds, what can be done?
AHUJA: So much can be done. We can design technology, we can design our cities, our communities to enable more connection between people, right,
instead of optimizing for attention or keeping us on the platform, instead of just looking at the efficiency of, like, how is it easy to commute?
How is it easy to run into your neighbor?
How is it easier to use technology to meet someone who has the same interests as you in your city?
How is it easier to connect with them and do something with them?
And once we start looking in that direction, we all love connection. Like it's very innate. So we start connecting.
ANDERSON: I want to hold that up. Well worth a read. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
And that is it from us tonight. From the team working with me here in Abu Dhabi, it is a very good evening. You can find me online @BeckyCNN on
Instagram and on X. Stay with CNN. "MARKETPLACE MIDDLE EAST" tonight is up next.
END
