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The Chris Wallace Show

Biden Administration Calls for Humanitarian Pause in Israel- Hamas War; House Republicans Pass Bill Providing Aid to Israel but Not Ukraine; Trump Family Members Testify in Civil Fraud Case against Trump Organization; Democratic Congressman Dean Phillips Announces Presidential Primary Campaign against President Biden; President Biden Receives Low Poll Ratings on Economy; Judges to Decide if Former President Trump Should Not Be Allowed on 2024 Presidential Ballots; U.S. to Change Clocks for Daylight Savings; Some Schools Banning Students from Using Cell Phones; Artificial Intelligence Used to Produce Beatles Song from Demo; White House Provides Guidance for Development of Artificial Intelligence. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired November 04, 2023 - 10:00   ET




CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, and welcome to our first show, where every Saturday, I'll sit down with some really smart people to discuss the biggest stories in what we hope will be a different way.

Today we're asking, with mounting pressure on President Biden to call for a ceasefire in Gaza, how much say does he really have in what Israel does?

Plus, legal challenges now, to keep Donald Trump off the ballot. Should judges or voters decide his future?

And later, a hot topic for parents and kids. Should schools ban students from using cell phones? Our panel here is all ready to go. So sit back, grab your coffee, and let's talk about it.

First, our Saturday starter. President Biden walking a diplomatic tightrope as Israel continues its offensive in Gaza, responding to last month's horrific attack by Hamas. Secretary of State Blinken returned to Israel this week, pushing for a pause in the bombardment to get more humanitarian aid into Gaza and more hostages out, while here at home there are growing calls for Israel to stop the bombing at least temporarily. It's put President Biden in a tough but familiar spot.


WALLACE: Amid deadly Israeli airstrikes on Gaza, there are mounting calls for a ceasefire, pressure on President Biden coming even from his supporters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a rabbi, I need to you to call for a ceasefire right now.

WALLACE: The president instead backed a pause for talks to get the hostages out, a clear softening from Biden's initial hardline stance.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My administration's support for Israel's security is rock solid and unwavering.

WALLACE: But as the death toll mounts in Gaza, history suggests unwavering U.S. support has an expiration date, one that is often ignored by Israel.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: America's commitment to the security of Israel is ironclad.

WALLACE: In the early 80s, President Reagan shifted from ironclad to calling for Israel to end its invasion of Lebanon.

REAGAN: For them not to leave now puts them technically in the position of an occupying force.

WALLACE: But Israel stayed another five months before a deal was brokered.

Fast forward 30 years, President Obama defended an Israeli military operation in Gaza. Thirteen days later, Obama called for a ceasefire.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: A ceasefire that ends the fighting and that can stop the deaths of innocent civilians.

WALLACE: But Israel ignored Obama's call, and continued its offensive for five more weeks.


WALLACE (on camera): Here with me on our first morning, podcaster Kara Swisher, author and conservative pollster, Kristen Soltis Anderson, "New York Times" journalist and podcast coast Lulu Garcia- Navarro, and Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and contributing editor of "The National Review." Welcome to all of you, and thank you for taking this on with me.

Lulu, let me start with you, because you spent years reporting from the Middle East. How much actual say does Biden have over the way Israel conducts it war?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: A lot, but it's not total. And I think that there is a real difference between what presidents say in public, because they have a lot of constituencies like the American public, like other governments in the Middle East, which they need, and they also are saying things in private, and we don't know what President Biden is saying to Prime Minister Netanyahu in Israel. But for the most it seems that they are giving them the green light to go ahead with what they're doing.

WALLACE: And as we've seen from that piece, sometimes presidents change their tune, and Israel doesn't always bow to that. Reihan, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says no ceasefire even temporary until all the hostages are released. How much attention should he pay to President Biden and also to offices like the U.N. agency that says it is collecting evidence of possible war crimes?

REIHAN SALAM, PRESIDENT, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: I believe that Netanyahu is paying close attention to what the Biden White House is saying, but I would urge him to do what's right and what's necessary.


The euphemism of the moment is a "humanitarian pause." This is a poll- tested euphemism for a ceasefire. And the truth is that Israel agreed to a ceasefire in May of 2021 after Hamas rocket attacks. There was a brief response from Israel, and then they said we'll agree to a ceasefire. The next move was Hamas slaughtering 1,400 Israeli civilians.

Something needs to be done, and I think the United States actually risks putting itself in a tricky situation where if they do not show trust and faith in Israel doing what it needs to do, Israel has its own leverage, and it's going to do what it needs to do to defend itself. So they need to find some way to navigate this together.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: I was about to jump in, because, if I may, Reihan, there is something else at play here, which is of course Israel is a sovereign country, it can do what it likes. Ultimately, it does need the United States. But this is a civilian population that is there. This is, you know, this is not a war in other places where people can leave, they can go and flee, and there's a big refugee outflow. This is a trapped population of 2 million people which under international law is an occupied territory still.

SALAM: This is a matter for Egypt. Equip is a massive recipient of U.S. aid --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Are you suggesting the Palestinians should actually go to Egypt and be ejected from their land. Most of the Palestinians already --

SALAM: The Egyptians are now --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Most of the Palestinians in Gaza are actually refugees from the war of 1948. They are refugees already once. And there has already been an understanding that the Israeli government --

SALAM: Israel did not --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- has been considering trying to get a mass exodus of Palestinians.

SALAM: -- a great deal of time and room, and it's perfectly reasonable for many of the actors who are responsible for feeding and funding Hamas to take some responsibility. WALLACE: Let me throw another log onto this fire, and that is that,

you know, we talked about Vietnam as the first television war, where people could sit at home in easy chairs and watch the war playing out. What we're seeing now with social media is a television war on steroids. So what impact does it have when you see first, from October 7th, those horrific images of Hamas slaughtering Israelis, but now, week after week, the carnage inside Gaza?

KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": It is a disaster. And anyone running the country has to be paying attention to the visual images that are coming through at a pace never seen before, some of them real, some of them fake, all of them disturbing. And so, and confusing to people. People are very confused about what they're looking at.

And so the calculation for Biden and for Netanyahu has to be what do we look like? Because it's not just one show a night on television. It's all the time. And that's the real problem. Can you imagine World War II on social media? You might imagine the Nazis would be running Europe at this point because people get horrified by war when they see it up close, and that's what you're getting here, especially of children dying. And I think that's the real problem.

Kristen, let me bring you into this on a slightly different point, which is the House this week passed the aid to Israel, $14 billion, but it stripped out any aid to Ukraine. Any problem with that?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CO-FOUNDER, ECHELON INSIGHTS: So I don't understand why in Washington everything has to always be linked together. I think this is a big reason why we don't have progress on issues like immigration, et cetera. I wish that the Biden administration and the Senate would agree to pass Israel aid on its own. I understand, as somebody who wants to see us aid Ukraine, why they want to link them. They want to put pressure on many of these Republicans that are a bit wobbly on the Ukraine question. But I think by requiring the things that are somewhat unrelated to constantly be linked in Washington, that makes it harder for progress to be made.

WALLACE: Is aid to Israel more urgent and more important than aid to Ukraine?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's conflating two different things. I actually wanted to read a tweet by Matt Gaetz that he put out this week --

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Please don't.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to do it. Listen, he is a Florida senator. That's my hometown state. He said, quote, "Israel is a land with a 4,000 year connection to our faith. Ukraine is a former Soviet state. These are not the same thing and should be considered independently." This to me seemed pretty shocking that we are now looking at the 4,000 history, 4,000-year history of the Middle East as a way that we should manage geopolitics in 2023. I mean it's, you know, it seems pretty ridiculous. SALAM: There is an urgent disaster, this is a geopolitical emergency

happening in Israel right now. With Ukraine, there is a question of balancing our commitments, thinking about whether or not the nonmilitary assistance is appropriate. I agree with Kristen that, look, this has to be immediate, it should be clean. Unfortunately, President Biden --


WALLACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, what if passing Israel aid, which everybody supports, means that Ukraine doesn't get passed, and Putin is able to do exactly what he expected, which is wait out the west.

SALAM: I do not think that is what would happen. What would happen is there would be an honest negotiation with different equities at stake and figuring out what is and is not appropriate as opposed to a blank check in Ukraine. I think that's entirely reasonable, and I think that actually a large majority of Americans would agree.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But this isn't the last time that Ukraine aid is going to be discussed. And at this particular point in time, because of the delays, let's not forget, that happened in the House with the speaker, time is of the essence. In fact, many Republicans themselves feels that this actually be put as an omnibus package because just decoupling them makes it much more difficult for them to --

WALLACE: So I'm going to break in here, because I actually talked to some congressional leaders this week, who say it's going to go to the Senate. There are a lot of Republicans in the Senate who want to package the two of them together, aid to Israel, aid to Ukraine, but the price they're going to pay and the red line that they're going to impose, because the president also has aid to the border, is that they're going to have to do some things, Joe Biden and Democrats, that you don't like, which is basically stricter, tougher enforcement of the border.

Anyway, now that we're all warmed up, here's what is ahead.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: No more Matt Gaetz tweets.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They're my favorite.

WALLACE: Donald Trump is expected to testify next week in the case that will determine if his billionaire brand is a fraud. Can he convince the judge it's not?

Also, President Biden's numbers are way down, prices are way up. Is it time for another Democrat to bail out the party?

And later, we're all falling back later tonight, but should we let the sunset on daylight saving time? Our panel has lots to say about all of it.


[10:16:34] WALLACE: These days, you're as likely to see Donald Trump in a courtroom as on the campaign trail. One legal question he's facing is at the top of the docket this week in Colorado, and several other states are also considering it. Should Donald Trump be kept off the ballot next November under the 14th Amendment to the Constitution? Now, Section 3 of that amendment, in case you don't remember, bars anyone who has previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. It bars them from ever holding office again.

The question is, who should decide whether Trump is on the ballot, judges or voters? Lulu, is this a legitimate question for judges and state courts, and I guess ultimately the Supreme Court, to be decided?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Absolutely. I don't think there is any question about that. We have separation of powers in this country. Congress could have made that determination after January 6th. They could have decided to censure the former president and bar him from actually taking office again. They chose not to do so. The courts are considering this now. Let me just say, they have never had to consider this ever before. It is, as we love to use this word about Donald Trump, unprecedented. And I think I'm not going to make any determination as to whether this should or shouldn't happen, but I think it is totally legitimate that the courts actually look at this.

WALLACE: Reihan, I understand the argument that it's anti-democratic that judges, not voters, should decide this. But it is the 14th amendment to the Constitution, it is on the books. There are cases before judges, and what they have to determine is, one, whether or not January 6th was an insurrection, and two, whether or not by the terms of Section 3, 14th Amendment, the president, quote, engaged in it. Is that legitimate?

SALAM: The law professors who set off this firestorm have introduced a couple of very tricky ambiguities. One of them is that it could be that the person who is accused of rebellion and insurrection is not allowed to take office but can be on the ballot. That's one. The other is that there's another little amendment called the 20th Amendment, and there is actually a real possibility that if Trump is president- elect, then Congress can pass a law saying that he is not qualified. So you get another version of a January 6th-like insurrection coming from a Congress that is hostile to president-elect Donald Trump. This is a very complicated, confusing subject.

WALLACE: Let's cut to the chase. Are you basically saying the court shouldn't be dealing with this?

SALAM: I am definitely saying that. It should belong in the hands of voters. And if it's not, there is something called democratic legitimacy that a lot of folks talked about, right, back during January 6th, and this is the ire issue front and center here again. And that could be incredibly corrosive for our courts and our institutions.

SWISHER: But it belongs to the courts. It is called the Constitution. It should go to the Supreme Court, obviously, which is where it probably is headed. But 14th Amendment happens to be my favorite amendment. I carry it around with me, mostly because of equal rights under the law.

WALLACE: Sort of like with Matt Gaetz.

SWISHER: Yes, gay people like that one. Equal under the law. But it says what it says.

SALAM: I guess you're a fan of FDR, too. FDR knew a little bit sometimes about sometimes the Supreme Court, sometimes the courts overreach when it comes to democratic legitimacy and what majorities want.

SWISHER: But it should be in the court. This is something that clearly needs to be determined in the court of law, and then perhaps by the voters, but in this case, it makes sense to me.


WALLACE: All right, Kristen, let me talk about another legal issue. Trump's sons, Don Jr. and Eric, were in court, civil court in New York this week, dealing in a case in which it is alleged the Trump family and the Trump Organization defrauded banks and insurers by inflating their worth. The two, as they're known at the Trump Organization, the boys, both testified. And incidentally, and this is must-see TV, Donald Trump is testifying on Monday, and Ivanka apparently later in the week. So your sense, how are the Trumps doing so far in this case?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I'm not -- from a legal perspective, it doesn't feel like they're doing well. But from a political perspective, every poll I've seen doesn't suggest that this is taking any toll on Donald Trump's standing in the Republican primary. Everything that's I've seen suggests that every time he is under pressure legally it actually backfires on anyone who tries to use it against him to make him politically harmed by just giving more fuel to the fire. Look how much they hate me. Look how much they want to prevent me from being able to be your president again.

So whether it's these court cases around the 14th Amendment trying to keep him off the ballot or his other legal challenges, he is an enormous amount of peril. He has done himself no favors. He is his own worst enemy. It is baffling to me that Republicans are going to walk open-eyed back into having him as their nominee, but it seems likely that that is what is going to happen, and every one of these court cases has done nothing to stop that.

SWISHER: It's performance art. He's like a MAGA Bjork, right. This is all perfect. It gives him more stuff to do, more material.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Exactly. It is a virtuous circle for him, because he acts like he is aggrieved, they give him more money, he uses that money to pay his legal fees. It is this lovely self-sustaining circle.

WALLACE: -- basically, saying that the Trump Organization is, the billionaire's net worth to defraud, would necessarily be good. I understand the short-term gain.

Let me ask you, Kara, about another issue, and that is the gag order. There were two gag orders. One of them has now been frozen by a federal appeals court, but these are judges imposing gag orders because of things that Donald Trump has said about prosecutors, about witnesses, about court staff. Here's how this became an issue. Take a look.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Deranged Jack Smith. Doesn't he look deranged? You see the picture with the purple robe? He is a deranged human being.

This judge is a very partisan judge with a person who is very partisan sitting alongside of him, perhaps even much more partisan than he is.

I don't know about Mike Pence. He should endorse me. I chose him, made him vice president. But people in politics can be very disloyal.


WALLACE: Kara, should judges gag Donald Trump? Can judges gag Donald Trump?

SWISHER: No. The thing is, he's perfect. He's shameless. If you have no shame, you can do it. They've got to execute and hold him to account, and they're not going to do that. And so he knows that. And so it is like saying to a lion, do not touch that gazelle over there. Do not, do not, and he just does it. And then they have to do something about it.

WALLACE: I think he'd actually would like that analogy. Yes, a lion and a gazelle.

SWISHER: It's deranged.

WALLACE: On the Democratic side, President Biden faces his own set of problems, including whether he should keep saying this.




That's the American dream. That's Bidenomics.


WALLACE: Is Bidenomics a winner or a loser? The panel tells us what they think next.



WALLACE: Joe Biden is entering campaign season under water. His poll numbers are among the lowest for a president seeking reelection. A majority of Democratic voters don't even want him to run. And yet only one Democrat is challenging him, a little-known congressman from Minnesota, the same congressman who represents the district Biden visited this week to kick-off a campaign tour.


JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let's unite this country. Let's do it together.

WALLACE: President Biden making an interesting campaign stop this week, in the backyard of his only Democratic primary opponent.

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS, (D-MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's time for a new generation to take the reins.

WALLACE: Minnesota Congressman Dean Phillips on the trail pushing a message party leaders don't want to hear.

PHILLIPS: America is telling all of us they do not want this man as our nominee.

WALLACE: Phillips's long shot bid, trying to capitalize on an unpopular president, whose latest poll numbers are stuck below 40 percent. Part of the reason, the economy, with roughly the same minority of voters approving of Biden's performance.

And here is a good example of why. Americans are paying a lot more for everyday items. Like a box of cereal, now going for $9. But the president keeps doubling down on the Republican attack phrase he thinks he can turn into a plus.

BIDEN: Bidenomics.


That's Bidenomics.


WALLACE (on camera): So, Kristen how much trouble is Joe Biden in, particularly in swing states, and particularly among independents?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: He's in a lot of trouble. And in fact, in part because of everything we just talked about with Donald Trump, who is likely to be his adversary, Trump keeps shooting himself in the foot, and yet he and Biden are effectively tied in poll after poll. And that's because you have this message that the Biden campaign is trying to drive of don't believe your lying eyes. We promise you the economy is great. Look, if you just take out housing, fuel, food, and used cars, you have a great economy.

[10:30:05] Well, guess what? A lot of people spend money on food, fuel, housing, and the sorts of things that remain very expensive. So I think Biden is not even close to a shoo-in for re-election. It is very hard to unseat a sitting president, but when the economy feels this bad to people, anything is possible.

WALLACE: I have a theory, and that is that Biden is the only Democrat who can lose to Trump, and Trump is the only Republican who can lose to Biden, so I actually think there's kind of mutual dependence there.

SWISHER: Who is going to win. Look --

WALLACE: Is Kristen right?

SWISHER: Because this is fever dream of Washington reporters, the chattering class. How can I put this delicately. Unless he breaks a hip, grampa is running, and so is the deranged lion. This is what we have. This is what's going to happen. And voters will firm up on either side, it seems like that. And I know everybody likes to think there is going to be something else happening because it is exciting, but --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I disagree a little bit with this. Definitely these are going to be the people that are going to be running. But I actually think the real issue here is enthusiasm. And what we've seen in a recent poll, to use your language of polling, is that Democrats are really soft on Biden. And he's losing a lot of people of color in particular, and that is going to be a problem.

WALLACE: And a lot of young people.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And a lot of young people. And that is the base of the Democratic Party.

On the Republican side, you don't see a softening of enthusiasm for Donald Trump. People who love Trump, love Trump. And so it's going to be a race to the polls, and the Democrats might lose that race.

WALLACE: Reihan, I want to go back to this question that Kristen brought up. The president keeps doubling down. It was originally a Republican attack line, Bidenomics. And the Biden team said you know what, we're going to own it. And by Bidenomics, which he says over and over again, he is talking about low unemployment and strong growth. That's not the way most people are experiencing the economy. So I guess my question is, is Bidenomics a political loser for Joe Biden?

SALAM: Bidenomics is a bust. You certainly see it in survey data. You see that certainly. But Bidenomics is actually a little bit different from what you described. It's actually this thesis that we're going to pump federal subsidies into creating green jobs and then suddenly we will have a prosperous, amazing economy. The problem is that President Biden is building a Potemkin economy that is built on D.C. subsidies that could very well go away. He is setting us up for another rust belt. And it is actually incredibly dangerous, and people see through it. You're going to tell me that we're going to build chips, and it's going to cost five, six times as much as it does from Taiwan. We're going to build batteries, there's just going to cost seven times as much as they do in China. We're actually going to pull apart the ICE economy.

WALLACE: I can just feel the energy. Kara, go.

SWISHER: This is an important act. This is important. We have been way behind and dependent on other countries for too long, and it was noticeable during the pandemic. All our phones are made in China. Is this a good thing?

SALAM: The way you solve that problem is not be raising costs with regulations and mandates on DEI and who knows what else. The way you do it is by making American industry more competitive.

SWISHER: You're entering DEI into it? Where did DEI come from? That's not the cost.

SALAM: You make American industry more competitive. You deregulate. You do not allow the AFL-CIO, the UAW, to dictate terms. You build competitive industry --

SWISHER: We're like in acronym land.

SALAM: We sure are. We sure are, because that's the Biden administration, and Biden progressives.

SWISHER: No, it's not.

WALLACE: Wait, wait, wait.

SWISHER: We need to invest in this country in terms of advanced manufacturing and everything else. The minute you did deregulate it went elsewhere, and China and other countries were able to control the stream of technology. We need to bring this back here.

SALAM: Public investment, plus union wage setting that guarantees higher costs --

WALLACE: This is a very interesting and deep and sophisticated coverage. I want to go back to cold hard politics.


WALLACE: If people don't feel good about their economic situation, is talking about Bidenomics, I mean, does he have to do it because he has somehow got to persuade them?

SWISHER: Look, he's not going to dark-Brandon this one. It's a terrible word. It's a terrible, terrible word. He should come up with some other word.


SWISHER: Like Taylor Swift. I don't know. Something. --

(LAUGHTER) SWISHER: Who is by the way, by the way, show off your thing. You have --

WALLACE: I was going to save this for later, but yes, you gave me my Swiftie bracelet.

SWISHER: That's correct.


SWISHER: And I only do that because look at what happened to the economy with Taylor Swift. Billions into the economy. The recession has been, you know, there's no recession that is happening yet.

WALLACE: Are you suggesting drop Kamala and --

SWISHER: I would suggest, as you know, Taylor Swift should be president. But that's very --

WALLACE: She's not old enough. I don't think she qualifies under the Constitution.

SWISHER: We should change that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: She's 33. You have to be 35, sorry.

SWISHER: Let the voters decide, as we say.

WALLACE: Quick question for you, Kristen. This is my little scenario. So Dean Phillips, the congressman that we have now forgotten about, hangs out in New Hampshire, he is just a vessel for people's concerns and dissatisfaction with Biden. People in New Hampshire are already ticked off because Biden took away the first in the nation primary. He does surprisingly well in the -- don't stop.


SOLTIS ANDERSON: OK, keep going.

WALLACE: He does surprisingly well in their January primary, kind of like Gene McCarthy in 1968. And this shakes the support for Joe Biden.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Wake me up with AOC primaries him. That's my thought. The Dean Phillips campaign right now feels like an economic stimulus package for the Dean Phillips campaign consultants. I think that Biden is vulnerable to a primary challenge. I don't think that it is from the place in the party where Dean Phillips is coming from.

WALLACE: All right, up next, we turn to some big talkers that I'm looking forward to discussing with our group here, including a change at school your kids will not like.


[10:40:19] WALLACE: While we want to weigh in on the big issues each week, we don't want to ignore other news that is just plain interesting. So as in Congress, it's time to ask the group to declare yea or nay on stories that have us talking.

First, it's that time of the year, daylight saving time, when we fall back an hour and ask ourselves why. The ritual has survived years of legislative challenges and warnings from sleep experts who say changing the clock back and forth is bad for your health, but we still do it. So Kristen, yea or nay on daylight saving time.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I would have been yea up until last year, but now I have a toddler, so I'm nay.


SOLTIS ANDERSON: The idea of the clock falling back and getting that extra hour of sleep seemed nice, and I could always get bird in the spring, but now it just everything off-kilter for no apparent reason.

WALLACE: Lulu, one of the things I like is it means when you wake up, it is not necessarily as dark out, or it gets lighter sooner, earlier. Where are you, yea or nay on daylight saving?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm a hard yea.

WALLACE: Really?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, because I just want to be contrarian here, because I don't know anyone who likes daylight saving time. So at this point, I want to be like, I love it. I absolutely love switching my body clock twice a year to figure out what time I'm going to be waking up. You know, yes.

WALLACE: You know what I find crazy, we fly from Washington to D.C., where it is an hour difference and we don't think about it, but when we have to change the clock, it throws us off.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's hard. It's hard.

WALLACE: Second, a story that parents may like but your kids won't. Some schools are starting to ban cell phone use during class time, or even for the entire day. Supporters say the ban reduces distraction and bullying, while those opposed to the ban point to educational benefits -- I'm not sure what those are -- and the students' ability to call their parents in an emergency. Kara, as a mom, yea or nay?

SWISHER: Sounds great. I think everybody should put down their cell phones. I think everything at work, when you're around people, when you're in a community. But students, absolutely, they're a distraction. People should be focused on the classroom. They don't need them there, there are little pockets, they put them, they're adorable. I'm thrilled with the idea. They did it at our school.

WALLACE: Reihan, is this another case of big government overregulating our lives, or are you for the ban for cell phones in school? Which, incidentally, in Florida, in one school, it is not just during class time, that's a no-brainer, but even during free time.

SALAM: I regret to report to my children that I agree with Kara on this one. It doesn't have to be a government mandate. This is about school by school, and this is also about norms. This is about families establishing some boundaries. I think it has to happen.

WALLACE: More than 50 years after the Beatles split, they have released this week one more song called "Now and Then." They took a demo that John Lennon recorded in the 70s, and through the magic of A.I. turned it into a polished record. Here is a listen.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know it's true it's all because of you. And if I make it through it's all because of you.


WALLACE: Kara, as you know, you are my guide to pop culture. You gave me my Swiftie bracelet. This is not Taylor Swift but where are you, yea or nay?

SWISHER: I'm moving to Beyonce, but go ahead.

WALLACE: Yea or nay?

SWISHER: I think this is what is happening. It is not a yea or nay. It is what is going to happen.

WALLACE: No, I'm asking you whether you like it.

SWISHER: I don't like the song, but I think you're going to see a lot of it. You saw, actually, Johnny Cash's voice doing Taylor Swift songs.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I got teary listening to this.

SWISHER: Did you?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, I did, and I'll tell you why. I didn't think it was a great song, but it was listening to John Lennon's voice again in that kind of raw way that made me nostalgic. And I thought actually it was a good use of A.I.

WALLACE: I hate to play John McLaughlin. She's right, you're wrong.


WALLACE: It is the Beatles. If you have six lines of a Shakespeare sonnet and you didn't have the rest of it, would you be excited to read the six lines of a Shakespeare sonnet? Yes, because it is Shakespeare.

SWISHER: You have to understand, it is A.I. generated. And so you have to wonder which parts.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They didn't make it up, though. They just isolated his voice.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Yes, I was originally out on this when I first saw the headline, and I thought A.I. generated John Lennon, this feels kind of creepy. But it actually ends up being more like an auditory archeological dig. They used the A.I. to unearth something.

WALLACE: All right, we're going to leave it there.

Up next, a big story that has gone a bit unnoticed this week but could have a massive impact on how technology affects our lives.


It's Under the Radar.


WALLACE: Under the Radar this week, the White House tackling artificial intelligence. On Monday, President Biden signed a sweeping executive order laying out new rules for how companies can develop A.I. The White House called it the most significant action any country has taken so far. Then, Vice President Harris went to a global A.I. summit in Britain to tout the administration's new guardrails and stake a claim of U.S. leadership in this area.



President Biden and I reject the false choice that suggests we can either protect the public or advance innovation. We can and we must do both. The actions we take today will lay the groundwork for how A.I. will be used in the years to come.


WALLACE: But is government regulation of A.I. good or bad? We'll ask the panel when we come right back.



WALLACE: The Biden administration takes on artificial intelligence, laying out new rules of the road for the cutting edge technology. We are fortunate, because Kara here is one of the great experts on technology. You were invited to the White House for this announcement of the president's executive order.


WALLACE: What did you think? SWISHER: They actually let me in, which was exciting. It was great. I

thought it was really good. It was 112 pages. There is a lot there. It covers the entire map. It's a little broad, but it starts to direct agencies to consider all kinds of things from discrimination to safety to weaponization toward cybersecurity and everything else. It's quite broad. And what has to happen is Congress has to act and start to create some regulation of the Internet, which hasn't happened so far, since the Internet started.

WALLACE: Now, are there some obvious gaping holes in it, in terms of what it doesn't do?

SWISHER: No, no, no. It's quite -- it is a really good document. It is just very late. And they're doing it because A.I. has gotten so much attention and so much --

WALLACE: And where do we stand versus the rest of the world --

SWISHER: We're way ahead. The United States is always the most innovative in this area. And people are worried about China and others, as always. But in reality, the United States is at the forefront of this, and it's the only country that doesn't have any significant regulation on the Internet, including privacy data and things like that, and it needs to happen. And a lot of these people want guardrails.

WALLACE: What about the worst-case scenario that one hears about, that it might make it easier for people to develop weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, even the danger that the machines are going to take over from their human overlords?

SWISHER: Every technology tool can become a weapon. That's the thing. And that's what happened as we've seen in social media. And so you're going to see it here. And so it's a good thing for the government and companies to work together, and not just let the companies make the decision.

Right now, let me give you one quick statistic. Companies have spent 73 percent of the money on A.I., and in 1964, government was spending 64 percent of the money on advanced technology. There's got to be more of a government-company partnership, or else the companies will decide everything.

WALLACE: Kristen, what you are watching for in terms of what the U.S. and other countries, friendly and not so friendly, are doing in terms of A.I.?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: What I wonder, you mentioned that Congress didn't regulate the Internet at the start of the internet, and actually, the United States wound up being a really big leader in that space. And so how do you get that balance right? You don't want to be in a position where you have gone overboard, trying to say we didn't regulate social media at all, let's go for it, and you wind up getting rid of that environment that made it so innovative.

WALLACE: Finally panel, it is time for your special takes on what is happening, or predictions on what we should be looking out for. So, hit me with your best shot. Reihan, best shot.

SALAM: My best shot is the third party candidates are actually going to matter in the 2024 presidential election. RFK Jr. is pulling votes from Joe Biden and Donald Trump. A Quinnipiac poll found that he has 22 percent of the electorate's support. And then you've got Cornell West, you have got a potential No Labels candidate. This could be an incredibly unpredictable situation.

WALLACE: At this point, if you had to bet, with those third party and fourth party candidates in there, benefit Biden or Trump?

SALAM: I believe it is going to benefit Trump.

WALLACE: All right, Kara, best shot?

SWISHER: The Disney-Hulu-Comcast deal to sell all of Hulu to Disney. It is really important streaming get its economics right. It has been really devastating for Hollywood. And so it needs to figure out to consolidate. Prices are going to go up and the choices are going to be less because the economics are out of hand right now and problematic for the entertainment industry.

WALLACE: Kristen?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: First Tuesday in November, so it's Election Day somewhere. Virginia, Kentucky, voters will go to the polls. They will decide whether they would like Republicans to, in Virginia, hang on to control or take control in the state legislature. In Kentucky, there's a governor's race. It's going to be a really big test case for the power of abortion as an issue. Is it still motivating voters to turn out for Democrats? I think it likely is, and I think Republicans are likely to be disappointed on Wednesday.

WALLACE: I have to tell you, being here in D.C., we have got a big election in Virginia for the legislature. The Democrats are talking about abortion, Republicans are talking about crime. Is Youngkin going to be able to flip the legislature to the Republicans?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I'm skeptical. I think that the abortion issue is going to win out for a lot of female voters, younger women, and it's going to turn them out in bigger numbers than for Republicans.

WALLACE: So generally speaking, bad night for Republicans?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: Generally speaking, I think the Republicans will be disappointed.

WALLACE: And finally, best shot?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Cats, cats. I'm a cat lady, you would be surprised to know.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: Don't judge. And I read a really interesting report that broke my heart a little bit that showed that cats do not purr because they love you necessarily. They're actually just snoring. It's an involuntary reflex that they have. And so you're kind of a snooze for them. And that made me a little sad. So that's my story.

WALLACE: Kara, did you think that when your cats purred that it was because they liked you?



SWISHER: I don't think cats care about anything, and I like it that way.

WALLACE: I thank you guys all for being here for our first show. Thank you for spending part of your Saturday morning with us. We'll see you back here next week. The premier of THE AMANPOUR HOUR is next here on CNN.