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The Chris Wallace Show

President Biden and Former President Trump Visit U.S. Southern Border in Texas; Democrats Criticize House Republicans for Not Taking Up Bipartisan Senate Immigration Bill; Former President Trump Leading in Republican Primary Ahead of Super Tuesday. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired March 02, 2024 - 10:00   ET




CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and welcome. It's time to get together with some smart people to break down the big stories. Today we're asking, as the migrant crisis continues to grow, can President Biden's trip to the border help him flip the script on the issue many voters say is their biggest concern?

Then with Super Tuesday coming up and Donald Trump expected to win big again, can he afford to ignore the chunk of voters Nikki Haley is taking?

And she's back. Monica Lewinsky's new look and mission, which has a lot of heads turning.

The panel is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.

Up first, the number one issue for voters now - immigration, a problem that took center stage this week when both President Biden and Donald Trump headed to the southern border hoping to convince voters the migrant crisis is the other guy's fault.


WALLACE: Air Force One and Trump Force One setting up a Texas showdown as the two presidents faced off over who can fix the border.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a Joe Biden invasion. This is a Biden invasion over the past three years.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Instead of playing politics with the issue, why don't we just get together and get it done?

WALLACE: As illegal immigration takes the top spot as a national concern, 53 percent of voters say Trump would do a better job handling the issue, while 25 percent side with Biden.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Republicans simply cannot vote for the bill in good conscience. WALLACE: Biden blames his House Republicans for killing a bipartisan border deal recently at Trump's urging.

BIDEN: It's time for the speakers and some of my Republican friends in Congress for blocking this bill to show a little spine.

WALLACE: But Trump has the stronger record -- 5 million more undocumented migrants across the border under Biden than at the same point under Trump, many of them now living in cities across the U.S., which are reeling from the influx, leading some Democratic mayor is to shift their tone.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NY), NEW YORK CITY: We need to modify the sanctuary city law, that if you commit a felony, a violent act, we should be able to turn you over to ICE and have you deported.


WALLACE (on camera): Here with me today, podcaster and author of "Burn Book, A Tech Love Story, Kara Swisher, Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and "National Review" contributing editor, "New York Times" journalist and podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and author and conservative pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson. Welcome back, everyone. Great to see you.

Kristen, can Biden flip the script on immigration, which at this point is a big vulnerability for Democrats?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, AUTHOR AND REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: I think it's going to be very hard for him to do so because this has risen so much in the public consciousness as a big problem, because you have stories like this horrible story coming out of Georgia, this jogger at the University of Georgia getting murdered. And of course, it all traces back to this was a man who was in the country and shouldn't have been, and had been, I believe, apprehended before. And the fact that the system feels so broken is going to continue to be a vulnerability for Biden, I think. Even in the face of House Republicans shutting down that bill, it does not at this point appear to have taken a toll on Republicans standing on the issue.

WALLACE: I want to pick up on that terrible case in Georgia where a nursing student allegedly killed by a man in this country illegally for more than a year. And Trump hit that hard this week.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The monster that charged, charged in the death is an illegal alien migrant who was let into our country and released into our communities by crooked Joe Biden. Joe Biden will never say Laken Riley's name, but we will say it and we will remember. We're not going to forget her.


WALLACE: Lulu, can Biden flip the script on immigration so that voters don't totally blamed Democrats for the problem at the border? LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, JOURNALIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": I think there's a bunch of things going on. I think Democrats are going to try. I think they looked at what happened in New York with Suozzi's election, and they saw that he actually talked about immigration.

WALLACE: Just real quickly, special election, New York, Tom Suozzi, congressman running in a district, George Santos's seat, and he pushed the issue that Republicans and Trump killed the bipartisan border deal.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, exactly. And he didn't run away from it. He actually based basically embraced it and said, yes, we have to do something about the border. And yes, it has to be compassionate, but it has to be firm. And so I think a lot of Democrats I've heard have taken notes and are basically going to try and push that line.

The wider problem here is that what we see is that Republicans have become an anti-immigrant party. When you see the case in Georgia, of course it's a terrible case. Of course, it's absolutely horrific. But it is not actually emblematic of what happens in most places with migrants. Migrants aren't exactly flooding across the border who are criminals. They're not being led out of mental institutions, as Trump says. This is simply not true. In fact, what we see is that migrants actually commit less crimes than their native born peers.

WALLACE: Reihan, has Lulu convinced you that immigration and the idea of illegal immigration and crime caused by illegal immigrants isn't going to be a big voting issue for voters in November?

REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, I'm sorry to say that there are two things that are cutting again the Biden agenda. One is the fact that inflation was once the dominant issue. Ironically, as inflation fades, immigration actually becomes even more salient an issue. Another is that when you look at Tom Suozzi, also look at Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman. These are Democrats who are showing that there is a lane to be very hawkish on the immigration issue. But that is pivoting against the Biden administration, in effect. President Biden owns this crisis right now.

And I'll say that with respect to migrants arriving in the last couple of years, when you're talking about immigration in aggregate, you're missing a bit about the specifics of what's happening right now with people exploiting a variety of different loophole. The Venezuelan government, in some respects very deliberately, releasing folks who oftentimes are dangerous criminals. There actually is more to it than looking at an issue in the aggregate. Look at the particular instances that were looking at, as in the case of Laken Riley, this was a two- time violent offender. There are many more instances like that.

KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": But they're going to be -- they're going to take advantage. Remember Willie Horton. This is, they're going to try to make it something that seems more dangerous than it is. And I interviewed David Chalian this week about that, and I think one of the things he noted is that it was sort of a rightwing issue and now it has moved into the mainstream very clearly. And so Biden has to keep talking about it, really, that he's doing something.

WALLACE: But does talking about it, talking about this bill, counteract the fact that there have been millions of people coming across the border --

SWISHER: It counteracts that it's on the top of his mind. He can't pretend it's not happening. And I think especially when others like Fetterman, Eric Adams in these blue states, when they see it up close, everybody's talking about it, so he can't not talk about it. He's got to act like he's acting, even if even the I care, and this is a problem, and he can't let Trump run away with it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, it is a problem. It is, of course I mean, everyone is saying it's a crisis. Hakeem Jeffries is saying its a crisis.

WALLACE: Democratic leader in the House.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The Democratic leader of the House. I mean, this isn't something that the Democrats are saying isn't a problem. The issue here is that the other their side is really taking what is, quite frankly, a xenophobic stance. I mean, we remember when Donald Trump came down the escalator in 2015, and the first thing out of his mouth was basically that immigrants are evil, that Mexicans are rapists --


WALLACE: Wait, I'm going to put -- I'm going to bring one more thing into this, though. But it's no longer a border problem. It's now because a lot of the governors down in the border states have been shipping these migrants up. It's become a big city issue in New York, in Chicago, a number of cities around -- northern cities around the country. And Reihan, you had the New York City mayor, as we pointed out in the piece, Eric Adams saying, well, maybe these sanctuary city laws should be changed and toughened. I mean, are sanctuary cities over?

SALAM: I think that they might be, because when this was an issue that was limited to the southwest border, then you could say, oh, those guys are awful xenophobes. When this is something that is happening, unfolding in downtowns across the nation, what you're seeing is a number of Democrats realizing that it's about survival. It's about the security of their communities. You need to --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Sanctuary city laws are not about -- Sanctuary city laws --

SALAM: Sanctuary city laws were ultimately a symbolic move. Lulu --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But the Sanctuary city laws, what they're talking about there, what Eric Adams is talking about is actually taking away the right of immigrants to have due process. He's saying, let's deport them if they've committed a crime before they even get due process.

(CROSS TALK) WALLACE: That's not what he's saying. He's saying we can deal with immigration officials if they're suspected of a crime, not wait till after they've been convicted.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, but the whole put the whole idea of sanctuary city laws in particular to a crime is that migrant can actually feel confident that if they are the victim of the cry of a crime, or if they've actually seen a crime, they can feel confident, they can go to police --


SALAM: -- visa that's designed to protect victims of crime. There's a process for that that exists in the federal law.


When you're talking about sanctuary jurisdictions, this was something that began back in the 80s as essentially a symbolic gesture when this was not actually a meaningful crisis. Over time, what we've seen is a very different scale of the problem. And what we've seen is that black and brown communities that are impacted by violence, chaos, and disorder that are taking a stand. John Fetterman is someone who understands this in his bones.

WALLACE: Wait. Go ahead, Lulu.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Can I just say that what you're saying about violence and disorder, it's as if you're saying this is being caused by immigrant communities.

SALAM: No. We're talking about immigrants who are themselves being victimized by lawbreakers, people who are cynical, dangerous actors. When we're talking about --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: There are dangerous actors -- but I just, we're using an individual case, and we're trying to extrapolate. And the problem that I have here is that immigration needs to be dealt with, but it can't be dealt with, with demonizing -- by demonizing, by demonizing migrants. What it can be dealt with is by actually having a policy --

SALAM: As a son of immigrants and raised in an immigrant community --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Policy. And the Republicans have shown that they're not -- the Republicans have shown they're not interested in policy.

WALLACE: If immigration isn't enough of a problem for Biden, he's now dealing with uncommitted voters in a key swing-state. Is the Biden coalition in trouble?

Then the three letters many Republicans have hated to hear in recent days, IVF. We'll break down the pro-life tight rope the GOP is now walking.

And later, attention parents, Uber's new way to teach your kids about budgeting. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


WALLACE: Super Tuesday, the biggest primary day of the year is just three days away. And even though both parties' nominees are all but locked in, their campaigns may be starting to see some cracks.


WALLACE: Donald Trump and Nikki Haley headed for a Super Tuesday when 15 states go to the polls and more than a third of the delegates are up for grab. While Trump is almost certain to keep adding the stage to his win column.

TRUMP: We've won them all by massive records.

WALLACE: Nikki Haley is taking a sizable chunk out of their share of the vote, raising questions about his strength and November.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can't win a general election if you can't get 40 percent of Republican primary voters.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

WALLACE: On the Democratic side, President Biden running largely unopposed, still lost 13 percent to uncommitted voters in Tuesday's Michigan primary, as a slice of the Biden coalition flexed its opposition to the president's handling of a war in Gaza.

REP. ABRAHAM AIYASH (D-MI): Were going to keep pushing that narrative because it is the right thing to do, it is the moral one thing to do.


WALLACE: Reihan, when you look at the vote totals that Nikki Haley is racking up, 40 percent in South Carolina and New Hampshire, 27 percent in Michigan, is Trumps glass two-thirds filled or one-third empty?

SALAM: I think that this is looking pretty good for Donald Trump right now. He's gaining momentum. And part of the reason is that primary voters are different from general election voters. Primary voters tend to be more educated, more affluent. They're more likely to turn out. And those are voters that the president, the former president, I should say, has always had a hard time with. And in some of these earlier primaries you had folks who were non-Republicans who are taking part, right? And I think that she's going to have a pretty tough time as the map expands and she's able to focus on fewer resources --

WALLACE: I'm talking less about her than I am about Biden in November.

SALAM: Absolutely.

WALLACE: Let me bring Kara into this, because 59 percent of Haley voters in South Carolina said they won't vote for Donald Trump in November.

SWISHER: That's correct.

WALLACE: And I guess the question, because sometimes that's said in the middle of a primary, how worried should Trump be? They really mean it. They're not going to come out and vote for him, and rally round the Republican --

SWISHER: He should be cleaning it up but he's not cleaning it up. I mean, when she said it's not nothing, it's not nothing. She's not doing in small digits. He's doing in rather big digits.

WALLACE: No, it's a third.

SWISHER: And it's among people who are motivated to vote. And I don't know if they'll go to Biden. That's the question. The question on both sides is, will they go back to Trump? A lot of them really won't, I think. I think they really mean it. With Biden people, is it a protest vote now? And then when it comes down to it, they'll be like not taking that guy. I think right now they're making their voice heard and it's a good time to do so. And I'm not surprised by it.

WALLACE: I want to pick up on Biden because he has his own problems. Thirteen percent of voters in Michigan's Democratic primary voted uncommitted, which people compared to the 10 percent who voted that way when Obama was seeking reelection in 2012. The difference is Tuesday, that 13 percent was almost 101,000 uncommitted votes versus 20,000 back in 2012. Kristen is the Biden coalition that elected him in 2020 in trouble?

ANDERSON: I am skeptical. I think that by the time we get to November, I think both parties' nominees will have consolidated most of their party. I think right now, trying to read too much into these primary contests and what it might mean for the weakness of their coalition -- by the time you get to November, the airwaves will have been saturated with ad after ad about why the other party's candidate is the devil incarnate. And that is a very motivating factor. Polarization is going to kick back in in a big way.


So I think if I'm the Biden team, I would not be too worried about what happened in Michigan. But also, if I'm Trump, I'm not too worried about what happened in South Carolina. A win as a win, a win by almost 20 points is still a pretty big win. And I suspect a lot of these voters participating in the Republican primary voting for Haley, how many of them were ever going to vote for Donald Trump in the first place? I think a lot who are technically Republicans are likely to come back home.

WALLACE: But I just want to double down on this question in Michigan, because this just wasn't the uncommitted vote of 101,000. It wasn't just an Arab American protest about the situation in Gaza and Biden's support for Israel. In the latest CNN poll, 20 percent of black voters now say they support Trump, and 46 percent of young voters now say they support Trump. Lulu, if those numbers were to hold, and it's a poll in February as

opposed to what happens in November, Trump is running much closer among some key voting groups to Biden than he was in 2020.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I actually do think it's a bit of a concern, but what I will say is that I would rather be Biden in this election than Trump. Trump is facing multiple indictments. Trump has all these legal problems. Trump has a big part of his party that is not with him. His party is divided. And what we've seen in the last few rounds of elections is that everyone has been saying, oh, Democrats, this is the one where the red wave is coming. Oh, Democrats look, they really fumbled the ball on this, and Democrats have won and won and won. And so that's the first thing.

And the second thing is there's a big motivating thing here, which I think is going to be reproductive rights.

SWISHER: One thing that he does well, is he acts like a winner when he's been such a loser for the past couple of years. That's my -- I'm fascinated by that. It's like once --

WALLACE: You're talking to Trump?

SWISHER: Trump. It's amazing.

WALLACE: It's all the marketing, baby.

SWISHER: It's all the marketing, and it's really interesting. And I was like, what a loser and he sounds like a winner. And I think it works in some fashion.

WALLACE: Super Tuesday isn't the only big event on the campaign calendar this week. Biden delivers his State of the Union address Thursday, which will likely be his biggest TV audience till the conventions this summer. Last year at the State of the Union. Biden that a good night.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some Republicans want Medicare and Social Security to sunset. I'm not saying it's a majority --


BIDEN: Let me give you -- anybody who doubts it, contact my office. I'll give you a copy, I'll give you a copy of the proposal.


WALLACE: I think the reviews the day after Reihan were that Biden won that exchange with the with all the Republicans in the House. Can Biden do well enough on Thursday night and his State of the Union speech to maybe take some of the edge off the he's too old, he's out of it? SALAM: My strongest advice to him would be keep it short, keep it 30 minutes, no more than that, and pretend to be a moderate. Pretend that you're John Fetterman, pretend that you're Tom Suozzi, pretend you're someone you're not. And do that because when you're looking at these so-called uncommitted voters, that's not the challenge for Biden. The challenge is how do you bring back that suburban coalition, those folks who do vote, who are motivated by the social issues a lot of the time, and bring them back in the fold?

WALLACE: Kara, should Reihan -- rather, Biden listen to Reihan's advice?

SWISHER: It should be short and to the point. It's angry -- not angry, Biden, but obstreperous Biden is a good Biden. It's sort of like, remember when Hillary put on the sunglasses? That was a good Hillary. I think it works for him and it's a real - it's a nice image. It's got to be relatively short, and it should be very political. And the contrast with Trump should be like that on policy. It should be policy-oriented, contrast with Trump. And come on, you guys, that kind of thing.

WALLACE: I would just offer a dissenting opinion. Biden, or rather Clinton, used to give speeches that went an hour-and-a-half, two hours. Everybody said it was too long. The viewers loved it because they wanted to hear what he was going to do. It maybe here how he was forcing it down the throats of the Republics.

SWISHER: That's Bill Clinton, though, very different personality.

WALLACE: You actually make a good.

SWISHER: There are some new issues for Republicans that have Democrats increasing efforts to label them anti-woman. Will it work?

Plus, she's come a long way from the blue dress and the beret. The new Monica Lewinsky look and mission, all that coming up.



WALLACE: Democrats are ramping up their campaign on women's reproductive rights in the wake of Alabama's IVF ruling that frozen embryos are children. Take a look at these billboards rolling out at eight battleground states blaming Trump for the Alabama decision and warning others the states they could be next.

Meanwhile, Senate Democrats forced a vote this week on a bill to protect IVF access nationally. One GOP senator blocked the measure, saying it was an overreach. It's the latest sign of Republicans struggling to thread the needle between supporting IVF, which helps families dealing with infertility, and being pro-life.


SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE, (R-AL): We need to have more kids. We need have an opportunity to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: IVF is used to have more children.

TUBERVILLE: Well, that's for another conversation.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you saying that families in Texas who are using IVF have extra embryos that are frozen, do not need to worry?


GOV. GREG ABBOTT, (R) TEXAS: Well, so you raise questions that are complex and I simply don't know the answer to.


WALLACE: Kristen, you wrote a very powerful column in "The New York Times" this week about your personal experience with IVF. Why do you think this ruling in Alabama, that a frozen embryo is a person, has created a firestorm?

ANDERSON: Well, first of all, it is extremely popular even among pro- life evangelical Americans. So many people in the U.S. now know someone who has gone on this journey, like I have. They know a child in their life who is here because of this innovation. And so this has very powerful positive implications for millions of Americans.

And so there is this very real tension. If you are a pro-life person who does view life as beginning at conception, of this push and pull of their being very positive and very negative aspects to the procedure. And you are watching in real-time a lot of Republicans, particularly politicians who may not know how IVF works or anything about it, they are working through that tension in real time in interviews on television. And it has the real potential to create a political disaster for Republicans.

WALLACE: Well, they seem to have gotten that message in Alabama. The legislature there is racing to pass a bill to protect IVF patients and providers. And here's a good reason why. And it speaks to what Kristen was saying. There are 97,000 IVF births a year in the U.S. That's more than two percent of all children born in this country. And look at these national polls -- 66 percent oppose considering frozen embryos as children and holding those who destroy them legally responsible. And a poll for the Republican Senatorial Committee found 85 percent support IVF, including 83 percent of evangelical Christians.

Kara, can Republicans walk this tightrope being pro-life, against abortion, but still supporting IVF?

SWISHER: They cannot. They cannot. This is a real problem, because so many -- this is where it was going to lead anyway, this kind of thing, where extremism happens. And I think one of the things as you say, immigration is a real problem for Donald Trump -- excuse me, for Joe Biden. This is a huge problem for Donald Trump, even if, by the way, he's more moderate compared to most of them. It doesn't matter. They have to hang that on him and the Republican Party. And it's a winner with women and it's a winner with not just women, with anyone who is interested in children and families.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Donald Trump has to own this because the very fact that -- because, because the fact of the matter is that he put three Supreme Court justices in place that actually ended Roe versus Wade, and this is the natural continuation of that. It all got bumped to the states, and what we're seeing now play out in different states is what happened in Alabama. And the fact of the matter is, is that there are many, many women in this country -- I think, what are we, 51 percent. And most women find this to be a very motivating issue.

WALLACE: Well, it's interesting, Senate Democrats tried to pass a bill this week to protect IVF nationally, and it was blocked by one Republican senator, Cindy Hyde-Smith from Mississippi. And check out this map. Abortion rights could be on the ballot this November in a dozen states. Reihan, how hard will it be for Democrats to take abortion and IVF and, basically, build the case they've been making for a couple of years, Republicans are anti-women?

SALAM: It's going to be a very powerful issue for Democrats for a variety of reasons. We were talking about the number of children who are born via IVF. This number is rocketing. It is growing very rapidly. This is becoming incredibly common among educated, affluent parents, who are exactly those voters who are the regular mainstays for Democrats, who are also the Democrats who fund Democratic campaigns. This is going to be a huge rocket boost for them.

But I also will mention that many Republicans, for example, Dave McCormick, the Senate candidate in Pennsylvania, many, many others have come out and said unambiguously, we are absolutely for IVF. And the question is --

WALLACE: But let me ask you a question. As a matter of principle, if you believe and you've been saying for years that life begins at the moment of conception, and a frozen embryo is a conceived embryo, how can you be for IVF?

SALAM: This is a larger, very painful challenge for the pro-life movement because now that we're in a post-Dobbs world, suddenly there are a lot of pro-lifers for whom there wasn't real political accountability for the fact that a lot of Americans are in that mushy middle on the issue. And that's what Republicans are struggling with right now, because as it stands, there only about seven or eight states where you have a decent sized, firmly pro-life majority as classically understood. Many other states -- Kansas, you name it, Kentucky, these are states where in these abortion referenda, the pro- choice side has won. I think --

WALLACE: Let me just pick up on that -- excuse me -- and ask Kristen, given the fact that since Dobbs, almost every referendum from Kansas to Nebraska to Michigan has gone -- in a lot of red states has gone pro-choice, how big an issue is our reproductive rights going to be in November?


ANDERSON: I think it's going to be a very large issue, I think, especially in these places where it is on the ballot, because it will be a reminder to voters as they're voting for these other offices, that this is right there. And it is motivational two pieces of the Democratic coalition, like young women, who are enormously important to their potential electoral success. So I think this is going to be a big deal come November.

WALLACE: Up next, the push to stop one of the most iconic celebrations scenes and sports.

Plus, it's not just for rides and meals anymore. How Uber is helping parents teach their teens a lesson about money. All that after the break.



WALLACE: It's time once again to get our group's yea or nay on some big talkers. Up first, do you know, how much your kid is spending on Uber? Well, now you won't need to know because you can control it. The ridesharing app announced this week parents who share accounts with their kids can set a monthly budget within the app. The idea is to rein in teens who spend a ton on rides or meals.

We've got a panel here full of parents. Lulu, yea or nay on setting spending limits for how much your lovely daughter can spend on Uber?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Absolutely yea. I don't know a parent who would say nay to this. Anything that can rein in those teens and their wild spending habits on your credit card, I mean, come on, this is long overdue.

WALLACE: Kristen, I know that your child isn't old enough to have an Uber account, and one that is really on the way here isn't ready yet either. But where are you on this idea of setting a limit on what your kid can do when they get to be of age, and they will want to spend mommy's money on rides or food?

ANDERSON: This is great. Give parents more control, and then I think it may actually make it more likely that a parent who right now does not want their kid to have the Uber app at all will say, oh OK, now I feel more comfortable with this. This is good for consumers. It's giving them more power and choice.

WALLACE: You've persuaded me. Now you're just going to need to --


WALLACE: Next, the push to end the tradition of basketball fans storming the court when their team wins a big game. And here's why. After Wake Forest beat Duke last Saturday, look at that spot, Wake fans rushed the court, hitting Duke superstar Kyle Filipowski, who you can see there getting slammed. Fortunately, he didn't suffer any major injuries. But that follows this scene a few weeks ago when Ohio State fans hit the best woman in women's basketball, Iowa's Caitlin Clark, after their big win. Kristen, yay or nay on stopping the storm? ANDERSON: So I think court-storming can be a good thing. I think it's

a fun way for students when they have had a surprising upset to be able to burn off some of that energy. But I think in these cases it was clear that security was not doing their job to protect the people on the court from the storming. So I'm not fully anti it, but clearly in this case, it had more negative than positive.

WALLACE: Reihan, fans have been storming the court, football fields, but also basketball courts, that are in a small inside space, for years to celebrate a big one, especially a big upset win. But these two videos were quite disturbing, and I must say, looking particularly the Caitlin Clark, it felt a little bit like that person might have been targeting her. Where are you on stopping the storm, being the fun police?

SALAM: While I agree that it's incredibly fun, it's a beautiful ritual, this has to stop, because right now college sports are in a different moment, a different era. Caitlin Clark is worth a ton of money from name, image, likeness, you name it. This cannot stand. You can't do it anymore. Ban it.

WALLACE: Finally, a whole new look and mission for a controversial 90s figure. Monica Lewinsky is the new phase of the clothing brand Reformation. In its "You've Got the Power" collection which focuses on empowering women and urging people to vote, it's the latest chapter for Lewinsky, who after her affair with Bill Clinton, became a Weightwatchers spokeswoman and then an outspoken anti-bullying advocate. Kara, are you yea or nay on Monica's new campaign?

SWISHER: I know her very well. I think it's great. I think she's done a lot of great things. I mean, look, getting away from the actual thing itself, she's the only one who has ever dropped a dime, written a book, really, she's doing good things with the bullying and this. I think Monica's a yea all the time.

And I can't believe you didn't ask me about my giant teens who eat all the time and storm courts. So --

WALLACE: You said you didn't want to talk about it because you don't care about sports.

SWISHER: I know, I know. I'm teasing. Monica is great, and I think this is great.

WALLACE: Reihan, year or nay on Monica's reinvention?

I am nay, not because I don't have enormous respect for Monica Lewinsky, but because this is a millennial fashion brand claiming a Gen X icon. That's an outrage.


WALLACE: OK. You'll have to explain to me later what that means.

Up next, we open the Burn Book on big tech, and Kara is ready to spill the tea. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


WALLACE: We're back with one of the big stories in big tech this week, our very own Kara Swisher. Her new memoir called "Burn Book, A Tech Love Story," is available now wherever you buy books. Kara chronicles her relationships with the giants of tech, starting before many of them became giants. And she sounds the alarm of what could go wrong if the industry remains almost unregulated.

So you move to Silicon Valley in 1997, really one of the first beat reporters on the tech industry for "The Wall Street Journal." How much has Silicon Valley changed since then? And how much have you changed in covering the industry?


SWISHER: Well, they became billionaires and I didn't. But it was a startup in a really exciting culture. It was sort of like the gold rush and all these amazing little startups, innovation, ideas, and everything else. And then it morphed into the most powerful companies in the history of the world and the richest people --

WALLACE: Did you ever envision that? Or when did you figure out this isn't just another --

SWISHER: Right away. I thought it was going to be enormous, like one of these shifts where you shift from television -- radio to television, television to whatever. And this Internet thing I thought was going to be enormous. A lot of people didn't. They thought it was a Ponzi scheme, and people at the journal called my beat the Ponzi scheme beat.

WALLACE: As I said, you've met a lot of these giants before they were giants. And I want to ask you to do a thumbnail sketch, a sentence or two on a few of them. Mark Zuckerberg.

SWISHER: I called him the most dangerously -- the most carelessly dangerous man in the history of tech.


SWISHER: Because he doesn't know what he's doing when he has 2 billion people. He's a media company and he acts like he has no control over it and makes decisions I think are irresponsible.

WALLACE: Mark Cuban.

SWISHER: Terrific guy. He and I started off very rough, and he's become someone who is very thoughtful and doing interesting things, especially around health care.

WALLACE: Elon Musk, who you seem, in the course of reading the book, to have the biggest change of opinion about? SWISHER: Yes, I do, because I call him the most disappointing person

in tech, someone with great promise. And by the way, I give him props around space, around the cars. There's no question he's the O.G. person on those things. But since he has own Twitter, he's become the greatest troll in history, I think. Donald Trump had that title before.

WALLACE: So where is tech headed over the next 10 years?

SWISHER: Well, it comes at a good time, this book, because what happened before, there's a lot of damage, and there's been stuff that we know we could have done something about. Now we're moving into the AGI phrase phase, artificial general intelligence. This is even more powerful, and there's been no regulation at all. We need to think about regulation. And I'm not talking about just a little regulation. There has been none at all. And so we have to think about safety. We've got to think about privacy. We've got to think about copyright and everything else.

WALLACE: Thank you.

SWISHER: Thank you.

WALLACE: That was delightful.

Again, it's called "Burn Book." I've read it. You'll learn a lot and be constantly entertained.

The panel is back with their takes on hot stories and predictions for what will be on the news before it's news. That's right after the break.



WALLACE: It's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for.

So Kristen, hit me with your best shot.

ANDERSON: This week in Washington, an earthquake of epic proportions that many Americans may not have even heard about. Mitch McConnell announcing he will no longer be the leader of the Republicans in the Senate come November. The reason why this is such a big deal, progressives think that Mitch McConnell is Darth Vader. But interestingly, a lot of conservatives really don't like Mitch McConnell either. So a lot of champagne popping. But I feel like Republicans do not understand how much stuff Mitch McConnell made possible for them, how many points he put on the board. I think conservatives are going to miss him when he's gone.

WALLACE: OK, I didn't say I was going to do this. Who is going to replace him? Just give me a name.

ANDERSON: John. John WALLACE: No, no, no.


WALLACE: John who?

ANDERSON: I would probably guess Thune if only because as I think he's been around awhile, I think he's very broadly acceptable to a large portion of that conference.

WALLACE: John Thune, mark the tape.

Kara, what's on your mind?

SWISHER: Well, this Apple getting out of the car business. They were, they've been working on it for a decade. I think it's really important because it has all kinds of implications, not just because this is one of the most important tech companies. It's that they could have done something super interesting here, but the expense is huge.

The other thing is, China is coming in and possibly getting a factory in Mexico with BYD. Warren Buffett has been an investor in it, and China is really showing real strength in the E.V. market. Right now, people aren't buying E.V.s as much as they thought they were, although its moving at pace, but people will be buying these things. And so Apple not being in here is a big deal.

WALLACE: Reihan, best shot?

SALAM: San Francisco voters next week are going to be voting on Proposition F, a measure that says that if you are going to be receiving county welfare benefits, you're going to have to go through a drug screening. And that measure, the kind of thing you'd normally encounter in a heavily Republican state, is going to win with a healthy majority. San Francisco has been moving from the far left to the center, and that's also happening in a number of other big American cities. It's a trend to keep a close eye on.

WALLACE: As a San Francisco resident, quickly, do you agree with him or not?

SWISHER: Define "center." Center with a lot of nakedness. But go ahead. Yes. And weed.

SALAM: London Breed has a couple of pretty serious moderate primary challengers. And I think there's really been a vibe shift in the city that's durable.

SWISHER: There is.

WALLACE: Lulu, take us home.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I am going to talk to you about Taylor Swift, of course, and Pop-Tarts.

WALLACE: Well, that's an interesting combination. GARCIA-NAVARRO: It is. It caught my eye, and I have to say, I was a

little skeptical. Apparently Taylor Swift made homemade pop-tarts for her beau, and her beaus workmates on the Kansas City Chiefs.

WALLACE: Since you don't know sports, his offensive lineman.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: His offensive lineman, exactly, his offensive lineman. And actually didn't give any to the coach who was complaining about this who told this story. And I was a little bit skeptical. I was like, is she really this, this most famous, most powerful, most wealthy woman making homemade pop-tarts for her man? And I actually think that it's true, that she's a baker. On her Instagram she has shown other baked goods that she's made. And so I just found this very heartwarming. And as I always follow Taylor Swift and we all do on the show, you know what, Tay-Tay for the win on pop-tarts.

WALLACE: Gang, thank you all for being here. Congratulations on the book.

SWISHER: Thank you.

WALLACE: Go out and buy it.

Thank you for spending part of your day with us, and we'll see you right back here next week.