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The Chris Wallace Show

Biden Campaign Raises More than $25 million at Fundraiser Featuring Former U.S. Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton; Democratic Strategist James Carville Makes Controversial Statement Claiming Democratic Party's Current Message is Too Feminine; Former Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel Fired as Paid Contributor to NBC after On Air Protests from NBC and MSNBC Hosts. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired March 30, 2024 - 10:00   ET




CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again and welcome. It's time to break down the big stories with some smart people.

Today, we're asking with President Biden ripping a paid from Donald Trump's playbook by starting to insult his predecessor, can Biden really out-Trump Trump?

Then the reporting dilemma. On the heels of Ronna-gate at NBC, how should journalists cover Trump and his election denying allies?

And hear me out. Mike Tyson is selling an edible that will have our panel giving us an earful.

The gang is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.

Up first, a rare scene in politics. Three American presidents together in New York City in a sign of party unity. But much of their focus and attacks were about the other guy from the other party who also held the Oval Office.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've got three presidents in the building tonight.

WALLACE: a presidential trifecta at Radio City Music Hall. Joe Biden enlisting former Presidents Obama and Clinton for a historic fundraiser that was closed to video cameras except for the campaigns. Biden raising more than $25 million, adding to his growing war chest, which far outpaces Trump's.

But money is not Biden's only weapon. The president sharpening is personal attacks, going after Trump the way Trump belittles his opponents. JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd be happy to play. I

told him this before. I said, I'll give you three strokes if you carry your own bag.

WALLACE: And it got tougher from there.

BIDEN: A little old and out of shape.

Biden's staffers now calling Trump feeble, confused, and weak. But as we learned in 2016, beating Trumpet at own game is not easy.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Have you seen his hands? They're like this. And you know what they say about men with small hands. You can't trust them.

TRUMP: He referred to my hands, if they're small, something else must be small. I guarantee you, there's no problem.


WALLACE: I was there that night. It really happened.

Here with me today, podcast host and author of the bestseller "Burn Book," Kara Swisher, editor of "The Dispatch," and columnist at "The L.A. Times" Jonah Goldberg, "New York Times" journalist and podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and editor-in-chief of "The Washington Free Beacon," Eliana Johnson. Welcome back everyone. Good to have you here.

Kara, when it comes to personal insults and trolling, can Biden out- Trump Trump?

KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": I don't think he has to out-Trump Trump. He has to be Biden. And I think he's actually good at it. He was good at the last election cycle, the "come on, man," the thing that he does. So I think he's just got to be genuine to himself when he's doing it. And that was that was a good dig. And this is where politics is with Trump, you have to sort of meet them there. And Trump could be rather thin-skinned when it happens, and maybe he'll hit back. But I think Biden is pretty good at it, actually.

WALLACE: Eliana, Biden's staffers are reportedly test marketing various insults, like "Broke Don" and "Low energy Don," both of which I think are kind of weak, and the question I have, what do we think are the chances that Biden or his staff can come up with a killer nickname, like "Crooked Hillary"? And should he even try.

ELIANA JOHNSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE WASHINGTON FREE BEACON": I don't think it's a good idea. Look, Trump has shown that nobody can outdo him at this game, but you can tell that team Biden feels the need to keep the attention on Trump. And they know that to the extent Trump is dominating the headlines, they can keep the attention on him and not talk about the Biden administration's record. That is good for him.

I'm sorry, though. Calling him old and feeble is not going to make up for the fact that their own guy is old and feeble. That's a losing argument. [10:05:00]

SWISHER: I think social media, we live in a social media age. And I think there's things like Don Corleone, that's actually a pretty good one, but that wasn't the Biden people. Their social media is excellent. The Biden team, whoever is running it, is really smart and focuses a lot on the policy. And so I think you have to operate in these zones no matter how you slice it, because the press pays attention, other politicians pay attention, and it creates memes that move along.

JONAH GOLDBERG, "THE DISPATCH": So I agree with you that he shouldn't try to out-Trump Trump, and that going after Trump in a way is good fan service his own base, and he needs to show that he's fighting and so on. But I agree that Eliana that's specifically the terms "old and feeble" if it's a debate about who is older and feebler, I don't think those are on Biden's -- that's not Biden's turf.

SWISHER: Although if he shows himself to be vibrant, which he did at this event, he's shown it to be at the State of the Union address, then it becomes interesting. Why not shove it back?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, JOURNALIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": I think he has to show that he's out there, that he's vigorous. And unfortunately, we are in the I'm rubber and you're glue, and whatever I say sticks back to you. I mean, that's kind of where were at now in terms of these two men. They're both old, and so them pointing each other -- fingers at each other is just where we're at.

WALLACE: Lulu, let me pick up another aspect of this, which was that fundraiser. Is it smart, is it effective politics for Biden to enlist Obama and to enlist Clinton? And specifically, can they help him shore up his support, which is sagging, among younger voters, especially young black men and young Hispanic men.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Biden's poll numbers are up, so let's not talk about sagging. We're not talking about his skin. We're talking about his poll numbers. So that's the first thing I'll say. The second thing I'll say is that his poll numbers are up because now were in a general election. And so what we're seeing now is actually this push into a general election where he's actually going and taking his message to the people. And Obama and Clinton are popular, unlike the GOP, who really have no one to campaign with. I mean, this is a completely different party. George W. Bush has nothing to do with Trump.

And let me just read a list here -- Mike Pence, John Kelly, Mark Milley, John Bolton, Mark Esper. These were all people who were in the Trump administration and now disavow former President Trump. So you've got a very different kettle of fish here between Biden, who has former presidents who he is able to campaign with, and what Trump has.

SWISHER: I was hoping W would come out of the floor. I was waiting for that.


SWISHER: I was like, W is showing up from ceiling, kind of swinging and --

WALLACE: Another former president.

Jonah, I want to pick up on those questions of predecessors.


WALLACE: Reportedly, Obama was in the White House last week for several hours talking hard tacks campaign strategy with the Biden team. How smart do you think it is or do you think it really is going to help for Biden to hitch up to the degree possible with Obama and Clinton?

GOLDBERG: I kind of agree with Lulu in the sense that Biden's brand is still, I agree his poll numbers are going up, but like his brand is still pretty weak. Attaching yourself to more popular brands makes sense. And even broader than that, you look at the surrogates that Trump has available to him. They basically just reinforce a narrow coalition. Biden has like a much broader coalition.

I think the one place, really, one really false note was they initially billed, going to your point about social media, someone thought it was smart to bill this as a grassroots fundraiser. This was not a grassroots fundraiser.

WALLACE: I think the top ticket was a was half-a-million dollars. So yes, it was certainly pretty tall grass.

Former Clinton adviser James Carville had an interesting take this week on why it is that the Democratic Party seems to be bleeding support, especially surely among young men. And here is what he told "New York Times" columnist Maureen Dowd. He said, "A suspicious of mine is that there are too many preachy females. Don't drink beer. Don't watch football. Don't eat hamburgers. This is not good for you. The message is too feminine. Everything you're doing is destroying the planet. You've got to eat your peas."

Kara, is Carville right? Are the Democrats --

SWISHER: The preachy female, here we are.

WALLACE: What? Well, are Democrats the party of preachy females?

SWISHER: Oh, good God. I don't even know what to say. What a heinous statement. I'm sorry, it just is. Does he have a problem with a woman in his life at this moment, because I don't know where that came from. And it's so strange. I happen to like hamburgers. I met him several times. I just felt it was so out of touch with modern.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I'll just say this, which is that women save the Democratic Party. I mean, actually women vote at higher numbers. Women vote Democratic at higher numbers. So if women are preachy in the Democratic Party, he should be he thanking them because they're actually the ones that have really got to the polls over and over again.

WALLACE: Eliana, let me ask another --


JOHNSON: I don't actually think his comment was about women. He's using it as a descriptive term pejoratively to mean preachy, punitive. And look, he's talking to --


JOHNSON: Elitist. But he's talking to the segment --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But their women.

JOHNSON: Yes, he's talking to the segment of the Democratic Party that would say, what do you mean male and female? They're all the same. And he's saying, you need to get off that message and be a little more everyman. None of this punitive --

WALLACE: Or everywoman.

JOHNSON: Or every woman, OK?

WALLACE: All right, well, that got us going.

One of the biggest Donald Trump stories this week had nothing to do with the former president himself. Up next, the NBC Ronna McDaniel debacle is raising a serious question for all of us here.

Then it's not me, it's you. How significant is the rift between Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu?

And later, don't say a peep. We get the panel's yea or nay on Easter's most popular treat.



WALLACE: Now to one of the buzziest stories of the week, which raises serious questions for those of us who cover politics. We all witnessed the debacle at NBC this week when they fired former RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel just days after her hiring her as an on-air contributor after some of the network's biggest names went public to complain.


CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST: There's a reason why there's a lot of journalists at NBC News uncomfortable with this, because many of our professional dealings with the RNC over the last six years have been met with gaslighting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've also said election deniers is not just they can do that on our airwaves, but that they can do that as one of us, as badge-carrying employees of NBC News, as paid contributors to our sacred airwaves.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: The fact that Miss McDaniel is on the payroll at NBC News, to me that is inexplicable.


WALLACE: Their biggest issue, Ronna's support for Donald Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election, something I asked her about last year on my Mac show, "Who's Talking?"


WALLACE: Are you saying as the chair of the Republican Party that you still have questions as to whether or not Joe Biden was the duly elected president?


WALLACE: No, I didn't ask you whether he's the president.

MCDANIEL: I don't think that -- I think --

WALLACE: Do you think he won the election?

MCDANIEL: I think there were lots of problems with 2020.

WALLACE: Do you think he won the election?

MCDANIEL: But ultimately, he won the election.

WALLACE: Pardon?

MCDANIEL: But ultimately, he won the election. But there were lots of problems with the 2020 election.

WALLACE: And that's fair.

MCDANIEL: But I don't think he won it fair. I don't. I'm not going to say that.


WALLACE: We've got -- we'll get to the bigger issue of how we should cover Trump in a minute. But first, Eliana, was NBC right to hire Ronna? Was NBC right to fire her?

JOHNSON: Look, I probably wouldn't have hired her and probably wouldn't have fired her in that I think there are better spokeswomen for the conservative cause. However, the fact that the Overton Window at NBC can't accommodate Ronna Romney McDaniel but can accommodate folks like Al Sharpton who falsely accused a man of rape and led a pogrom in Crown Heights, and Joy Reid, who lied about her bigoted blog posts back in the de, I think that's what grinds the gears of conservatives.

WALLACE: Lulu, where are you on Ronna-gate?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Ronna-gate. I think she shouldn't have been hired. I think she's damaged goods certainly for Democrats because of what she did in the 2020 election. But also, she wasn't a good representative for Trump either. He basically engineered her ouster from the RNC. And so I wasn't sure exactly what she was doing on the airwaves, who she was supposed to be representing, what kind of perspective she was supposed to be given.

WALLACE: Were they right to fire her?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, at the end of the day they've got to pay her out. I think this entire spectacle that we've seen with all these people on air talking about her and what she's done does no service to journalism and no service to NBC and MSNBC.

WALLACE: This gets to the central question I want to talk about here. Donald Trump almost certainly would be the Republican nominee for president, but he also tried to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power, which raises the question, Jonah, how should the media cover Trump? Do we reflexively correct every misstatement he makes? Every time he says that he won the 2020 election, do we have to say no, he didn't?

GOLDBERG: It would be nice. I think part of the problem is we are in a messy place where in the alternative universe where I would prefer to live, it would just be recognized that Donald Trump was unfit to run again because of what he did on January 6th, and Ronna McDaniel would be unfit to be part of public discourse because of her aiding and abetting of it. We don't live in that world. What happened on January 6th now is just simply another one of the partisan contentious issues. And so that makes it really hard to cover.

I think that the real problem isn't that the media, the mainstream media isn't welcoming of principled conservatives who are willing to articulate conservative positions. I would say Eliana and I are two of them. The problem is that in terms of partisan politics, conservative -- liberal versus conservative on issues doesn't really matter very much anymore.


The defining issue is whether or not you're sufficiently loyal to Donald Trump as a Republican. And that is what this election is basically going to be about, is Joe Biden is going to be running again as not Donald Trump. And it's going to be a referendum about whether people want Donald Trump back in their lives for another four years. And finding Republican -- finding people who can hold a consistent line and make an intelligent, consistent argument in defense of Donald Trump is difficult when Donald Trump continually changes what his points of views are and says things that are often indefensible.

SWISHER: He floods the zone. That's what he does. You listen to Steve Bannon for five seconds and he talks about it. He floods the zone with lies, and then you don't know which one to grab at any one time. And it's part of a project. It's not -- it's intended. He likes to pretend it's just crazy making, but it isn't. It's actually --

WALLACE: But the question I have is, how do we cover him? I mean, do we do we kind of, every time he says something, do we --

SWISHER: No. Yes -- no, that's not true. You have to -- you're a reporter, right? Like you were just pushing back with Ronna McDaniel. Now, eventually they tire you out. They try to tire you out, but you have to say every single time, that's wrong.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I disagree. I disagree.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: I disagree for this reason. I think you have to cover Trump dispassionately. I think what we've seen here is that everyone gets so enraged, there is so much discourse around this, there is so much heated rhetoric that it just, actually, what you see, and we've seen this, is that people just tune it out. And so if you're constantly putting --

WALLACE: The question I have is will it become noise at some point.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It just becomes noise at some point, and so I think you have to pick and choose your battles.

SWISHER: That is the strategy to make it noise. And this is what they do --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not saying January 6th is noise, but I am saying that Trump, and right now, what's happening with his legal cases might be noise.

GOLDBERG: The "bloodbath" line overreaction served --

WALLACE: All right, go ahead.

GOLDBERG: The "bloodbath" line overreaction served Trump's purposes. I'm not saying --

WALLACE: Let's talk about what he said was, he was talking about --

GOLDBERG: He was talking about the auto industry, and he said and if I'm not elected, there will be a bloodbath and that'll be the least of it. And so people immediately said, oh, he's talking about violence. And look, he has no credibility to say he wasn't talking about violence. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious that the media got itself really worked up on this, and a lot of normal Americans looked at and said, I don't think that's what he was doing. Sometimes you have to let some of these things go and pick your targets.

WALLACE: And then I want to bring up one last thing into this discussion because you can't ignore it. This happened this week, Donald Trump selling Bibles for $59.99.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: All Americans need a Bible in their home, and I have many. It's my favorite book. It's a lot of people's favorite book. This Bible is a reminder that the biggest thing we have to bring back America and to make America great again is our religion. Religion is so important. It's so missing.


WALLACE: Kara, he's selling Bibles, he's selling gold sneakers, and he's selling of Victory 47 because if he's reelected, he'd be the 47th president, cologne and perfume.


WALLACE: The floor is yours.

WALLACE: He is our Home Shopping Network president. This is great. My favorite part was the person that, when he was trying to sell the Bibles, they asked him his favorite verse, and he still can't come up with them. It's just, it's comical, but you know, the Bible is a good book, I guess.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Show me the money.

SWISHER: Show me money.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's the show me the money program.

SWISHER: Yes, absolutely.

WALLACE: The growing rift between President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu escalated this week in a big way. But are both leaders playing politics? That's next.



WALLACE: Growing tensions between the U.S. and its closest Middle East ally got even worse this week. President Biden ordered his U.N. ambassador not to veto a resolution criticizing Israel, putting Biden and Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu's conflicting views on the war in Gaza on display for the world to see.



WALLACE: In a rare move, the U.S. abstained from a U.N. Security Council vote calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The drafted resolution has been adopted.


WALLACE: Israel's foreign minister responded Israel will not ceasefire, and Prime Minister Netanyahu said its offensive in Gaza needs more time.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Victory is within reach. It's a few weeks away. WALLACE: The U.N. vote is just the latest in a widening rift between

the Biden administration and the Israeli government, which became clear a few weeks ago.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There must be an immediate ceasefire.

WALLACE: And escalated this week with President Biden agreeing with pro-Palestinian protestors.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They have a point. We need get a lot more care into Gaza.


WALLACE: Pressure mounting on Biden to take a firmer stand as civilian deaths pass 30,000 and leaders of the Democrats' left-wing incest no more military aid to Israel without white strings attached.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): You can't beg Netanyahu. You've got to tell him, if you want any money you've got to change your policy.


WALLACE: After the us let that resolution pass in the Security Council, Netanyahu canceled a visit by an Israeli delegation to discuss the way forward in Gaza. The trip is now rescheduled for as soon as this week. But Lulu, as someone who has reported on the Middle East for years, how significant is what we're seeing right now in this rift between Biden and Bibi?


GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's extremely significant. You couldn't have had, I think, a president who had shown more solidarity with Bibi Netanyahu, even though they are not politically aligned. Joe Biden, really after the horrific events that happened in Israel on October 7th, came out very strongly, was incredibly supportive. This war has now been going on for over five months, and really he's just trying to solidarity at every turn. And I think, from what I understand, they just felt that enough was enough.

And I'll also say, what they're looking at here is the future now. Bibi Netanyahu is not the future of Israel. He is not going to be the prime minister for much longer. The people of Israel do not want him. He was presiding over a catastrophic event there. And so I think what the administration is looking at now is who is going to come next?

WALLACE: Eliana, having been around a long time in this town, we've seen American presidents and Israeli prime ministers at odds before. A lot of times, I think I'm Carter and Menachem Begin. Is this different? Is this a different order of seriousness in the terms of the rift?

JOHNSON: I think personalizing this kind of gets it wrong. I think the Biden administration would very much like to make this about Bibi Netanyahu. But the reality is that Israel has a unity government, a war cabinet right now, 85 percent of Israelis support going into Rafah. That is going to happen. That is what this rift is about. It is -- and if Joe Biden wanted to do something to help Bibi, he has very much done that for Bibi politically. And this is not about Biden and Bibi. That is what Biden wants to make folks believe. And it is extremely significant that for the first time in decades, the U.S. did not have Israel's back in the United Nations.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But then is about Bibi Netanyahu. This is really about Bibi Netanyahu. This isn't about Israel writ large. It is about a leader who has shown again and again that this union between Israel and the United States, he is partisan. He has tried to politicize it. He has at every turn tried to make it seem as if Israel and the United States are not actually united.

GOLDBERG: I disagree with that. As Eliana said, the vast majority of Israelis, including the vast majority of people who despise Bibi Netanyahu in his own cabinet, support going into Rafah. By personalizing this about Bibi, it makes it sound like Bibi Netanyahu is the guy who wants to go into Rafah. No one else does. In fact, this is the generally agreed upon consensus strategy there.

WALLACE: If there was an election tomorrow, Bibi Netanyahu would get re-elected?

BERMAN: No. But I think they would go into Rafah, whoever --

WALLACE: That's not the question. Wait a minute. The question is that Bibi Netanyahu is not popular Israel. All this talk about Rafah. I mean, you've got Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the Senate, calling from to step down and for an electron. I agree --

GOLDBERG: The dog whistle of that Schumer thing in all of this is that the terrible things going on in Gaza are because of Bibi. They're not because of Bibi. They are the policies of Israel to try to actually to defeat Hamas, which America says we should do.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Listen, listen Jonah.

GOLDBERG: This is about American domestic politics. The joke going around --

WALLACE: It's also about Israeli domestic politics.

GOLDBERG: Sure, but the --

WALLACE: We agree that part of the reason the Bibi is going as hard as he is going and ignoring the calls to end is because he knows that if he were to have a prolonged ceasefire or, God forbid, an election, he'd be out on his ear.

GOLDBERG: Yes, sure. That's fine.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And he's got a criminal investigation. There is -- no. There is a reason that he actually needs this war to continue. And he -- and this war cabinet has extreme members -- JOHNSON: He needs to get hostages back.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- has extreme -- extreme -- but there are ways to get hostages back that have to do with negotiations. There are --

GOLDBERG: And Hamas wants no part of negotiations.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And there are many, there are many ways to do this, is the first thing.

GOLDBERG: You hear these things like there are always obvious solutions other than what they're doing out there. And no one ever --

WALLACE: I want to talk no one about one other thing and bring --

SWISHER: All right, I'm not an expert here. I just think he's finished. All right, go ahead.

WALLACE: You see this growing pressure from the leftwing of the Democratic Party. We saw Bernie Sanders saying, if any more military aid to Israel has to have conditions, has to have strings attached. What do you think of the likelihood of that?

SWISHER: Unlikely, unlikely. I'm not an expert here as you all are, and I haven't covered this at all, but it seems as if we will continue to back Israel. I just don't -- I think this is a momentary issue between the countries. But things have changed, because a lot of young people, a lot of voters are questioning that relationship. And so politicians are going to respond, that just seems normal.


WALLACE: Eliana, Eliana, do you think that future military aid to Israel should come with strings attached?

JOHNSON: I do not believe that. It's not in Israel's interests. They're in an existential war. It's not in an America's interests. Israel is fighting an enemy that is also America's enemy. They're fighting an Iranian proxy in Hamas. And to the extent there's daylight between America and Israel --

WALLACE: But, and we have to get out of this segment, but we are talking about more than 32,000 Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, who have been slaughtered. So I mean, that can't be part of the equation. Nobody is saying that Israel should give up trying to kill -- trying to end Hamas. The question is, how did they do it?


GARCIA-NAVARRO: And Mahmoud Abbas should also -- but Mahmoud Abbas should also step down. And by the way, Mahmoud Abbas should also step down. I mean, there needs to be new leadership on both sides of this issue if anyone is -- if this is going to move forward.

WALLACE: Fine. Coming out, new evidence about the dangers of social media for teens, but is it enough to keep them off their apps? Plus, the sweet marriage or the Golden Arches and Krispy Kreme

doughnuts. How can you resist? That's next.



WALLACE: Once again, it's time for "Yea or Nay," and this week our theme is things you can eat. Sounds like a "Jeopardy!" category.

First up, since it's Easter weekend, let's talk about Peeps, those colorful and controversial marshmallow chicks and bunnies that some dub the candy corn of Easter. That, of course, is wrong because candy corn is delicious while Peeps or not. I'm just getting my word in here. But the 71-year-old trade is the most popular Easter candy, beating out jellybeans and Cadbury Eggs. Eliana, are you yea or nay on Peeps?

JOHNSON: A hundred percent yea, but only the yellow.

WALLACE: OK, do they taste better?

JOHNSON: This is the first time I've been consulted as a Jew in terms of Easter candy, but I like the yellow. I like the yellow.

JOHNSON: OK, Eliana is wrong, as John McLaughlin would say. Lulu, let's see where you are.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Eliana is wrong because they're disgusting. And also they stain your teeth, the yellow included. So I am a hard nay.

WALLACE: OK, you're right.

The sugar rush is not over. McDonald's and Krispy Kreme have a sweet new partnership. Later this year, the fast food giant is adding three types of Krispy Kreme doughnuts to its menu. They'll be available starting at breakfast and until they run out each day, which is pretty great. So no morning breakfast limit. Jonah, you're nay on having a Krispy Kreme doughnut with your McDonald's coffee?

GOLDBERG: Yea, this is the greatest crossover since Superman fought the Hulk. It's just fantastic.


SWISHER: It's not going to help either business. McDonald's has been struggling, so has Krispy Kreme. Good luck. Donuts are lovely. I don't know what to say.

WALLACE: Wow, that was kind of tough.

Finally, something you can eat that'll probably make you even hungry, and I promise we are not making this story up. Boxer Mike Tyson is packing a punch with these new cannabis gummies called Mike Bites, which are shaped like a chewed ear. Of course, that's a reference to when Iron Mike took a chunk out of Evander Holyfield's ear during a heavyweight fight in 1997. Lulu, I feel like I know the answer already, but are you going to take a bite of Tyson's ear edibles?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So am I really going to go right now on television and say, yes, I'm going to go take a bite out of Mike Tysons ear and have cannabis, too? No, I'm not going to do that because my daughter is watching. So that's a hard nay.

WALLACE: Let's say it weren't cannabis. Would you eat --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, no, none of it. And also, can I just say something, who is he marking this to? This happened in 1997. I mean, the kids are going to have this and they're going to remember this. This is like a weird-shaped thing.

WALLACE: Kids aren't eating edibles. Eliana, do you share Lulu's horror at revisiting the Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson fight of 1997?

GOLDBERG: And are you high right now?

JOHNSON: No. I'm up for a good time. I'm up for a good time. We'll share one. Bring your daughter.


WALLACE: Up next, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is going from banning books to a different ban that even liberal parents may agree with. Stay tuned.



WALLACE: Under the radar this week, the first law in the nation barring kids under 14 from having TikTok and Instagram accounts. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed the bill, which also says social media apps must get parents' permission before giving accounts 14 and 15 year-olds.


GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R-FL): With things like social media and all this, you can have a kid in the house safe, seemingly. And then you have predators that can get right in there into your own home.


WALLACE: How to enforce a law like this remains an open question, but there is science to back DeSantis up. In a new book, "The Anxious Generation," social scientist Jonathan Haidt, writes, "Depression has skyrocketed among teenage boys and girls, about 150 percent since 2010 when social media became popular. Suicide rights also saw a dramatic spike, especially among girls, up 64 percent."

Kara, you don't typically agree with Ron DeSantis. I don't want to get into whether it's 14 or 15, but how do you generally feel about the idea of strictly regulating tech for teens? SWISHER: Well, that Bible should have burst into flames for Trump

holding it, and I should burst into flames for agreeing with Ron DeSantis, but he's 100 percent right here. There's so much, so many studies showing the deleterious effects of social media on young people, and it has not been examined closely enough.


And the government needs to step in beyond just the company's doing it themselves. They have to be forced to do so just like we regulate -- we age-gate. I call it age-gating, I think is a better way to put it. We age-gate cigarettes, alcohol, driving, everything, and we should do the same here. And it's the right thing to do because the force of the government, even if kids get around, is important. It's an important statement about how we feel about these things.

WALLACE: Jonah, how do you feel about, and I you know him, Professor Haidt's research. And I want to put up his book, because the subtitle of his book says at all, "How the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness."

GOLDBERG: Look, I'm a huge fan of Jonathan Haidt's. I think he is -- there are legitimate arguments about where to set ages and all these kinds of things. But directionally, I think he's 100 percent right. He's very openminded. He puts all his data up on his website. He invites critique because he wants to get it right. He's properly motivated.

WALLACE: The question, if what his stats and what he's saying is right, we've really done a tremendous disservice to our kids in terms of depression and suicide by giving them open access to this technology.

GOLDBERG: We absolutely have, and there's nothing inconsistent with First Amendment principles. It used to be very hard for people under the age 18 to have access to pornography and all that kind of stuff. Technology has lowered all those barriers. There's nothing wrong with the state reasonably and judiciously trying to put some of those back up.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: We're the only country in the world that doesn't do it, I mean of the developed nations. Europe has very robust protections for young people. They're not allowed to be targeted with ads, et cetera. Why is the United States lagging behind on this?

WALLACE: Despite Jonah just said, in fact, there is a constitutional issue, and in two states where there were laws like this passed courts struck them down because they said --

SWISHER: It's got to be written correctly.

WALLACE: -- unconstitutional.

SWISHER: These are these are cigarette manufacturers. These are opiate makers. This is -- and they have made billions off the backs of all of us and especially our kids. I'm sorry, it's the right thing to do. WALLACE: The panel is back with their takes on hot stories. And I'll

have a best shot of my own that you won't want to miss. That's next.



WALLACE: It's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening, or predictions of what we should be looking out for. So Lulu, hit me with your best shot.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to bring up my home state of Florida again and Ron DeSantis. Sitting on his desk is House Bill 1045. This is a bill that among other things tries to ban the word "climate change" in legislation in the state. This is a state that is now one of the hottest states in the country. It is facing rising sea levels. It is facing an insurance crisis because of the changing weather. And yet they are still wanting to fight this battle over the wording of "climate change." And I would just say please, please, in the year of our lord 2024, can we stop trying to litigate the word "climate change"?

WALLACE: Eliana, you're focused on a Biden judicial nominee this week?

JOHNSON: Yes. I am watching the White House's level of panic over Arab and Muslim voters. Three Democrats are on the record against the White House's judicial nominee to the third circuit, Adeel Mangi. And so it was quite interesting to see White House Chief of Staff Jeff Zients go on the record continuing to fight for this nominee, which I took as a sign that the White House's level of panic, fighting for a dead nominee, or a nominee who certainly will not be --

WALLACE: And this is because he's a Muslim and they got promised a Muslim --

JOHNSON: Exactly. He would be the first nominee, first Muslim nominee to a circuit court. I take that to mean they want to be seen fighting for this nominee, and their level of panic is high.

WALLACE: Kara, best shot?

SWISHER: Meme stocks are back again. It's not just GameStop. There's two of them Reddit and Trump social -- I mean, Truth Social, excuse me. It's just Trump social, so I'll just call it that. Reddit is actually a real company, $800 million in revenue. It does not make money, but it has 76 million users on a daily basis. It popped in its IPO, it's the first IPO, and it's going back and forth because people on the service make it go up and down.

That said, the real meme stock, the meme-ist stock of meme-ville is Trump Social -- Truth Social. And its shares jumped. It is worse, $6 billion, $7 billion. It makes -- the first three quarters of this year, it made $3 million. I make more in one of my podcasts than they do in revenue. It is a, it is a short waiting to happen, and we'll see what happens.

WALLACE: Jonah, what have you got for us today?

GOLDBERG: I think, particularly given the evidence of the Biden fundraiser at Radio City Music Hall, it is clear that there's an irreducible number of protesters about Israel who are not going to calm down. And it foretells that the Chicago Democratic Convention is going to be a lot of cosplay from 68, and there's going to be violence, or there's going to be a lot of security that makes a lot of people mad.

WALLACE: Well, I was at the Chicago convention in 1968 when the Vietnam protesters dealt with the Chicago police, and it really, really hurt the prospects for the Democratic Party that November.

I'm going to break the rules and give you a best shot of my own. Meet Sophie Anderson. Our panelist and dear friend Kristen Soltis Anderson gave birth a few days ago to this six-pound, 13-ounce bundle of joy. I'm told her big sister Ellie and dog Wally are beyond thrilled, and we are, too. Congrats to Kristen, her husband, Chris, and the entire Anderson family.

Gang, thank you all for being here today. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you right back here next week.