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The Chris Wallace Show

Florida Supreme Court Allows Abortion Ban on Ballot for Upcoming Election; Biden Campaign States Florida Possibly in Play for Presidential Election Due to Abortion Issue; Polls Show Independent Presidential Candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Gaining Support across Multiple States Raising Spoiler Possibility; Israel Criticizes after Israeli Defense Forces Strike Kills Aid Workers from World Central Kitchen; Millions of Americans Traveling to View Upcoming Solar Eclipse; California Law Would Allow Workers to Ignore Communications from Bosses after Work Hours; Members of Generation Z Increasingly Joining Trade Schools Instead of Four-Year Colleges. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired April 06, 2024 - 10:00   ET




CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, and welcome. It's time to break down the big stories with some smart people. Today we're asking, after a Florida Supreme Court surprise, is the sunshine state actually winnable for President Biden.

Then the x-factor. With RFK Junior's poll numbers climbing, is Kennedy's appeal about much more than his anti-vax views?

And keep a ring on it. The new post-divorce trend that may have you saying I don't.

The panel is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.

Up first, the two decisions by Florida's Supreme Court which have the Biden campaign both angry and excited, and the Trump camp a bit nervous. This week, the court decided to uphold the law triggering a six-week abortion ban. But it allowed abortion rights to be put on the November ballot. The two rulings possibly changing the dynamics of the presidential race.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm running to make Roe v. Wade the law of the land again.

WALLACE: The Biden campaign putting abortion front and center, slamming Florida's new six-week abortion ban as extreme and outrageous.

BIDEN: Donald Trump doesn't trust women I do.

WALLACE: But hoping that having abortion rights on the ballot in November could make Florida winnable for the first time in 12 years.


WALLACE: Abortion rights has proved a winning issue for Democrats ever since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, with voters support abortion access in every ballot measure, including in red states like Kansas and Kentucky. This year, Florida is one of about a dozen states where voters could weigh in on abortion rights, including swing states like Arizona and possibly Nevada.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We'll be making a statement next week on abortion.

WALLACE: Trump, meanwhile, trying to walk the line between appeasing his pro-life base, but also Republicans and independents who believe in a woman's right to choose.

TRUMP: More and more, I'm hearing about 15 weeks. I haven't agreed to any number. I'm going to see here.


WALLACE: Here with me today, author and podcast host Kara Swisher, Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and contributing writer at "The Atlantic" "New York Times" journalist and podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and Jim Geraghty, senior political correspondent at "National Review" and contributing writer at "The Washington Post." Welcome everyone, especially Jim, who is a first timer.



WALLACE: Longtime viewer, first time talker.

GERAGHTY: Yes. I'm ready.

WALLACE: All right, all right, you've got to take it down a little.



WALLACE: Now, look, Florida used to be a swing-state, most famously in the 2000 election between Bush and Gore. But it's turned increasingly red. Trump beat Biden their four years ago by 371,000 votes. Lulu, as a Florida native, does abortion on the ballot in November give Biden a chance in your home state?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: It does not. I think Florida has turned into a red state. Demographic shifts have been huge there. Where I do think it will help Democrats is down-ballot. We do see that this issue is actually going to have some legs there. There are a lot of house races. There's a Senate race that's close. And so I do think that's going to be --

WALLACE: But Florida is too red?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's too red now for Biden to have, I think -- in my personal opinion, it's too red now.

WALLACE: But as we said, abortion is going to be on the ballot on states all across the country, definitely Arizona, possibly the swing state of Nevada. Jim, could abortion swing this election.

GERAGHTY: On those other states -- I was going to say conceivably. Maybe that's the wrong word for the abortion discussion. Biden would just need everything to break his way for a state like Florida. And when they put together their first list of competitive states, they went to blue wall states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and then they went Arizona, Georgia, all the ones you kind of expect.

They put North Carolina on their list, which struck me as kind of a stretch. My attitude is anything Biden didn't win four years ago is going to be a tough pull for him this time. Florida really feels like it's a little bit out of reach.

WALLACE: But on abortion.


GERAGHTY: Oh, look, it'll be a factor coast to coast, exactly what the Democrats wanted for their motivation. But on the other hand, I think most people vote on the economy, probably immigration is going to be a big deal.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Women vote on abortion. Women vote on abortion. Women are very reliable Democratic voters. And beyond all that, where we've seen actually abortion make a really big difference is in swing states, in those close states were actually getting people out to the polls to vote on that issue will be decisive.

WALLACE: Kara, how big a role do you think abortion plays?

SWISHER: A big role. I think it's been their quietly all over the place, and in every, all these elections, it's mattered. It seems to have mattered whether it's an Alabama, whether it's an Ohio, in Kansas, all kinds of places. It pops up. I think it will pop up in Florida big time.

WALLACE: Well, interestingly enough, in Florida, the supporters of the abortion on rights are saying we don't want those to be a political issue because we don't want people who may be for Trump but want abortion rights not to vote for this. So it's going to be interesting to see how it plays.

Trump, incidentally, says he's going to make a statement about abortion this week to clear up where he stands. But as soon as the Florida Supreme Court put abortion on the ballot, the Biden campaign started running an ad in that state to make it's clear where Donald Trump stands. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: For 54 years they were trying to get Roe v. Wade terminated, and I did it. And I'm proud to have done it.


WALLACE: Reihan, can Trump find some way to thread the needle in the statement he is supposedly going to make next week, where on the one hand, he doesn't antagonize his pro-life base, but on the other hand, he somehow fuzzes up the issue for people who are pro-choice?

REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Yes, I think he can. And I think that he's somewhat unique in his ability to do that. He has such strong support from evangelical conservative voters who see him as their champion that he is able to be a little bit tactical about the issue. He's able to actually moderate his position in ways that other Republicans find it very difficult to do.

Theres another element of this, Chris, and it relates to what you were talking about a moment ago with Kara. Theres a funny way in which these referendums actually decouple the issue from partisanship. Back in 2020, Florida voters voted by 20 percentage points to hike that states minimum wage, and Trump still won. If you look at Ohio, Kansas, Kentucky, state after state, you've seen pro-choicers when referenda by big margins, but those states continue to vote for Republicans. That actually could be something that works --

WALLACE: If there is a sweet spot, and you say you think that Trump is uniquely qualified, what's the sweet spot?

SALAM: I think what he's talking about now is using 15 weeks as the pro-life position. He's redefining it's around that as what he considers more defensible ground. There are going to be plenty of voters who are still opposed to that, who still consider that too restrictive. But he sees that as defensible, and I think he's going to be proven right.


SWISHER: He's also comfortable in that spot. That's what he actually thinks, which is unusual for him because he swings all over the place. But I think he probably will push for that. I still think it's going to be a problem with evangelical base. They will be very disappointed because they keep pressing on. But he definitely has to say something because he's kind of a jam here.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I don't think he can bamboozle voters. I mean, I think the very idea that somehow Trump can pretend that he wasn't the person who was seminal in overturning Roe, and that Republicans somehow aren't actually pushing for these very extreme anti -- against abortion rights and freedom of reproductive --

SALAM: I don't think there is any --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- is, is, is -- I just feel like, you're saying that he's going to play the middle somehow.

SALAM: There's a debate about whether or not this should be handled by voters and democratically elected legislatures versus the Supreme Court. And I think that's what we're seeing play out. And by the way, it's been pretty tough politics.

WALLACE: Here's the thing I don't understand, and Jim, let me bring you into this. I would think of 15 weeks, obviously there are a lot of pro-choice women who are going to say I don't want any restriction. I could see that been more acceptable to them. How does that square with the pro-life people who have been talking for decades about life begins at the moment of conception?

GERAGHTY: And no exceptions, no rape, incest --

WALLACE: So how suddenly is 15 weeks OK?

GERAGHTY: So we asked earlier about whether Trump could find that sweet spot, right? Could it happen? Yes. Would I bet on Trump doing that? No, because he's generally all over the place when he talks about these kinds of topics. He'll say one thing one sentence, and then in a separate interview he'll be completely contradictory. Trump can make himself sound like whatever he wants. Sometimes paragraph to paragraph, sentence to sentence.

And yet some, you think, oh, voters will recognize this. Largely voters haven't. Trump has been missing the sweet spot on all kinds of issues all throughout his whole career, saying things that are incendiary, saying things that are crazy and controversial. And it never really catches up with them, at least not to a point where he's no longer a person who could win the presidency.

SALAM: What makes Trumps so compelling --

WALLACE: I just you to briefly because we're running out of time in this segment, answer this question -- how does the pro-life movement wrap its head around 15 weeks? Do they say, well, yes, but Trump is our guy, and we know he doesn't mean it?


SALAM: I'm sorry to say that there are a lot of pro-lifers who are really panicked right now and who are trying to find some defensible ground as well. There have been political defeat after political defeat, and they think half a loaf is better than none.

WALLACE: All right, then there's the RFK Junior campaign. We all know about his anti-vax views, but given his growing appeal, is the news media getting it wrong in how we cover the Kennedy campaign?

Then the panel tells me why I'm wrong about what Israel needs to do after killing those seven aid workers.

And later, sending your boss to voicemail, the proposed law every worker planning a happy hour needs to know about.

Jim, if your boss called, would you answer the phone after hours.



WALLACE: Now to what could be this year's biggest spoiler alert. Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is gaining support, potentially getting his name on more ballots, and spreading a message that seems to be resonating, no matter how unconventional it is.


ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can make the argument and Biden as a much worse threat to democracy.

WALLACE: Independent candidate Robert Kennedy Jr. attacking Joe Biden.

KENNEDY: President Biden is the first president in history that has used the federal agencies to censor political speech.

WALLACE: The well-known vaccine skeptic claiming Biden censored him after Instagram briefly suspended Kennedy in 2021 for sharing debunked claims about the coronavirus or vaccines.

In recent weeks, Kennedy's star has steadily risen, introducing a running mate, lawyer and multimillionaire Nicole Shanahan.

NICOLE SHANAHAN, VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Join me and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., in the healing of America.

WALLACE: Jumping to double-digit polling in the presidential race. And after getting on the ballot in Utah, now claiming he's got enough signatures to qualify in several keys swing states.

KENNEDY: I'm going to be on the ballot in every state.

WALLACE: If that happens, he could pose a serious threat to both of the two leading candidates.

KENNEDY: Our campaign is a spoiler for President Biden and for President Trump.


WALLACE: Reihan, the polling is not at all clear. One poll indicates one thing, one indicates another. So let me ask you, who do you think Kennedy is more of a threat to, Trump or Biden?

SALAM: I'd say right at this moment, he might be hurting Biden more. Longer term, he could hurt Trump more. And I think if you're looking at the swing-state surveys right now, there's only one state where it seems like Kennedy is making a difference. That's Wisconsin. And it's making a difference to actually help President Biden. So it's very unpredictable, but my sense --

WALLACE: But why do you think it's going to end up being more of a problem for Trump than Biden?

SALAM: This is a big if, but if Kennedy winds up running a disciplined campaign, over time, a big if, and if he actually get some decent media attention, he could excite a lot of low propensity voters who want an exciting alternative. That is what separates Trump from the pack of other mainstream Republican candidates, those low propensity voters who don't trust institutions. Kennedy scratches that itch.

WALLACE: Trump is certainly trying to make it clear where he thinks Kennedy sets on the political spectrum. Take a listen.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He's a very liberal guy. He's probably the most liberal person in the race, including the Green Party. So I think he's probably going to hurt Biden. I don't see him hurting me. Our people are solid.


WALLACE: Lulu, who do you think Kennedy threatens more?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, at the moment both, but I think also long- term, it's probably going to be Trump. And you see him deliberately making a play for Trump voters. Just this week, he's been talking about how January 6th wasn't actually an insurrection. He's really trying to appeal to that side of the demographic. The other thing that he's doing, which I think is very smart is that he's going into podcasts. He's got the biggest following on TikTok of any politician. And so he's really trying to appeal to these voting blocs that perhaps aren't served by the traditional media.

WALLACE: Let's drill down on some of Kennedy's positions. Beyond being an anti-vaccine skeptic, which we know about. He's pro-choice on abortion, takes populist positions like reducing student loan debt, and says the war in Ukraine is being fought to advance U.S. interests. But most of all, he is somebody new. He is not Trump, he is not Biden. What do you think his appeal is, Jim?

GERAGHTY: One is we have two exceptionally well-known, one literal incumbent and one quasi-incumbent running. And so he's the fresh face. Ironically, a Kennedy. And then the second thing kind of struck me as we were just talking about his voice -- no professional political consultant would tell a candidate to sound like that. So there's an authenticity there. This is not perfection, this is not blow dried, this is who he really is.

The second thing is as this outsider, I think a lot of Americans who probably feel like their life stinks. Their lives -- they've had a lot of you tough, tough breaks in life. And they want somebody to blame. And Kennedy is the guy who is the outside. He's not of the establishment, he's not establishment right, he's not establishment left, began running against -- he's against everybody. And so I think if you're fed up with everything --

[10:20:03] GARCIA-NAVARRO: So this is the American version of being an outsider.

SWISHER: Nothing says, nothing says simple people like Kennedy.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Kennedy, I was about to say.

SWISHER: I think what he feels so like the Bernie bro guys, those guys who moved who didn't quite know where to go, didn't quite want to go to Trump, and he's a more appealing Trump in alto of ways. And I do think he's going to hit Trump hard, because he has those stances and he'll continue to do so. And they're also attracted to some of those liberal ideas, too, pro-choice and things like that. And he's interesting and he's not them. And that's the thing.

WALLACE: You made the crack about Kennedy. But the fact is Jack Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy, RFK Junior's father, they both very much were seen as champions of the little guy.

SWISHER: They were. I'm just saying, I don't think he's a populist that he makes out to be. He also, though, there's going to be a lot of slime thrown at them because he's got somewhat of a history, and I think that'll enter the picture. That might make him appealing to some of those people, because if they hit them hard --

SALAM: Here's what's really scary --

WALLACE: Let me just, I want to follow up with Kara. Given the fact that he is the most popular, in terms of this story in the polls, third party candidates since Ross Perot in 1992, is the media making a mistake in not giving him more coverage?

SWISHER: I think they should cover them completely and his vice presidential candidate. There's a lot there to cover and they should be treating him seriously. I think he has a lot of -- Ross Perot is a good example. But if Ross Perot was around today, he'd appeal to Trump voters.

SALAM: Here's what's really scared for President Biden. It's the fact that even though it's does seem like Kennedy is hurting Trump somewhat, Trump is still significantly ahead of Biden in the swing states. So I mean, I think it's funny because Biden was saying, I don't want third-party candidates in the race. I want to clear one-on- one contest. He might need other folks to jump in here to kind of chip away at Trump's support.

WALLACE: It is interest, you're talking about where Kennedy appeals. Since Kennedy has announced that he's not running as a Democrat anymore but as an independent, the coverage of him in a lot of right- wing media, including my alma mater, FOX News, has gone down a lot. How do you explain that?

SALAM: Well, I'm sure that that's related to the fact that he is less interesting to them as someone who is a thorn in the side of Biden.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, come one. That's not why he's -- that's not why they're not covering him. It's they're nervous, they're worried. They see him as a threat to Trump. They see him as someone who potentially if they give him airtime could actually take away, take away from their deal.

GERAGHTY: I honestly don't think that's how its works. They would cover Biden is bigger threat to democracy than Trump is, meaning that they love him when he's hitting Biden.

WALLACE: But overall, their coverage of him has gone down since he became an independent.


WALLACE: Is Lulu right? They see him as a threat?

GERAGHTY: I think the FOX News crowd is probably very comfortable with a Trump versus Biden matchup. You throw when those extra of options in there, it gets a little bit more nervous for those who are pulling for Trump.

WALLACE: A serious dilemma at the White House, President Biden outraged over Israel's killing of aid workers while also sending more bombs to Israel's military. Is that diplomacy or is it hypocrisy? That's next.



WALLACE: Now, tell me why I'm wrong, where I give my personal take on something I feel strongly about, and then my friends here weigh in.

For six months, we've witnessed the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. The IDF striking back at Hamas after a killed more than 1,000 Israelis in that savage attack on October 7th. For some, that's the collateral damage of war. For others, it's a slaughter that violates every rule of humanity.

Then this week, the Israelis killed seven workers from World Central Kitchen, who were trying to bring food to Gaza's starving people, striking their three vehicles in three separate attacks. This is how Jose Andres, founder of World Central Kitchen, responded.


JOSE ANDRES, FOUNDER, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: Humanitarians and civilians should never be paying the consequences of war. This is a basic principle of humanity. At the time this looks like it's not a war against terrorism anymore. It seems this is a war against humanity itself.


WALLACE: Now, let me be clear. The deaths of seven aid workers are no more tragic than the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinian men, women, and children. But for me this is personal. I've known Jose for years. A world-famous chef, he has made it's his mission to feed people in need as an act of love. Two years ago, my daughter Catherine volunteered at World Central Kitchen to help feed Ukrainian refugees who fled to Poland. She is the woman on the far right.

And that man in the center, Damian Sobol, who Catherine says was incredibly kind, he is one of the seven World Central Kitchen workers who was killed this week.

Now, I'm no military experts, and I know Hamas is hiding in a civilian population, but there's got to be some way Israel can fight this war without killing so many innocents, without killing people like Damian. Sometime over these six months, continuing to fight this war this way became unacceptable.


All right, Reihan, tell me why I'm wrong.

SALAM: The responsibility for civilian deaths lies with Hamas. Hamas has engaged in an information war against the people of Israel. One element of that information war is, frankly, issuing false, deeply unreliable information about civilian deaths. And another element of this is that they built an incredibly deep, incredibly extensive network of tunnels, hundreds of kilometers of tunnels that are very difficult to reach, and they deliberately built them underneath hospitals, underneath civilian neighborhoods. This is a nearly impossible situation that Israel is handling exceedingly well. And we need to continue to support them as they root out a genocidal organization.

SWISHER: Exceedingly well? Come on. Exceedingly well is not -- Israel has lost the narrative here. They've lost the high ground.

SALAM: You're right that they've lost the narrative.

SWISHER: And they've lost they lost the high ground and they've lost the story of a terrible attack amid all this. And this story -- and you're right, seven people dying compare to thousands and thousands, and especially children dying, all of them are terrible. But this encapsulates it perfectly. The cloddishness, the "we made the mistake" and everything else. And I get your point, but they've completely lost, and I hate to agree with Donald Trump, the P.R. war here. And it is now become that in many ways.

WALLACE: But Lulu, as somebody who has reported from the Middle East for years, is there another way, to get to Reihan's point, is there another way that Israel could fight Hamas without killing so many innocents, without pushing a population into famine?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, the problem here is that Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has two different objectives. One is to defeat Hamas and the other is to bring the hostages home. Those two things are actually at odds. And so he is caught in a position where he wants to defeat Hamas after this terrible attack. But he also needs to bring the hostages home.

The people of Israel themselves, and you've seen this now in the most recent protests, are saying, we don't trust you and we don't believe in you to be able to bring the hostages home. We don't believe that that is your aim anymore. And so what we're seeing right now is a lack of faith in this government and in their execution of the war, not by us pundits, but by the very people of Israel themselves.

WALLACE: I want to bring another partner into this equation. The White House says the president is angry and shaken, and that he told Prime Minister Netanyahu, unless Israel changes how it's addresses civilian casualties and the humanitarian crisis, there will be changes in U.S. support for Israel.

Jim is Biden being a hypocrite? On the one hand we're hearing how outraged he is. And on the other hand, the administration is continuing to funnel weapons of tremendous disruption.

GERAGHTY: For weeks or even months now, the Biden White House has wanted people to believe that Biden is more opposed to Netanyahu than his policies actually are. They let slip that he calls him the A-word, that he's constantly raging and fuming about it. Critics of Israel have a fair point to say, well, when does all that anger turn into actual policy changes?

Maybe we're going to see it. But I have this sneaking suspicion, right now there's this confluence of factors of people who want you to believe Biden is really opposed to Israel. Biden wants you to do that because he's afraid is going to lose Michigan. People who are opposed to Israel want to look influential -- look at us.

We've put pressure on Biden and he's coming around to our position. And those who want Jews to vote for Republicans want to emphasize this. And oh, by the way, even supporters of Israel might appreciate, look, we're being abandoned in hour hour of need, even by President Biden.

WALLACE: I want to get back to you do on this, Kara. This has been going on for six months.


WALLACE: Tens of thousands of Palestinian innocents killed along with more than, not just these seven, 200 aid workers. But the U.S. continues to send warplanes and bombs to Israel, including 2,000 pound bombs, which I read this week can kill people 1,000 feet away.


WALLACE: So how does the White House's supposed concern for the humanitarian situation here square with their continuing to send, and even this week, thousands of bombs and more and more heavy munitions?

SWISHER: Speaking of threading needles, it's an impossible situation for anyone running. And it's on Biden for this, period. It is. It's interesting you saw Trump kind of moving that way this week, too, in that interview he did where he wouldn't say he was 100 percent behind him.

I think the narrative is shifting, this Overton window is shifting, especially among young people and others about what to do here.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And in Congress.

SWISHER: And in Congress.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You are seeing people who are not on the progressive side who are firmly centrist also now saying that these weapons should actually have some oversight when they're sent to Israel. Israel is the only country that doesn't have it.

The other thing that I'll say as someone who has spent time in Gaza, a lot of time in Gaza, it is one of the most densely populated places in the world.


It is a place where people cannot get out, they cannot move. And you have seen these bombs being dropped on them. People have nowhere to go. And so there has to be a different way. This is not only an aerial campaign. You have actual Israeli forces inside of Gaza --

WALLACE: Thousands.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Thousands of them. And so there is a different way, many believe, to execute this war.

WALLACE: Thirty seconds. Reihan, final word.

SALAM: Just look, Biden bears some responsibility. By actually urging delay, by urging restraint, you are actually exacerbating the humanitarian situation. The best thing Israel and its allies can do is help bring this war to a swift conclusion and enter Rafah and take care of Hamas once and for all. That's ultimately going to be best for the people of Gaza, for the people of Israel, and everyone.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And the hostages, and the hostages, what's going to happen to them exactly?

WALLACE: That's a question that we'll talk about during the break. The debate will continue. And unfortunately, so will the bloodshot and the carnage.

Next, a story everyone seems to be talking about and traveling hundreds of miles to see. Plus, diamonds are forever isn't just a James Bond movie. It's now a trend among divorcees.



WALLACE: Once again, it's time to get our groups yea or nay, on some big talkers.

Up first, what some are calling the biggest travel event of the year. Millions of Americans packing their bags to catch a glimpse of the total solar eclipse which will cross America Monday afternoon on a path from Texas to Maine. There won't be another total eclipse in the for 20 years, which is why people are flocking to towns big and small along the 115-mile-wide path to see it. Reihan, are you yea or nay on traveling to watch the eclipse?

SALAM: Absolutely not. I do not want to have my retinas fried or those of my little children.

WALLACE: Are you aware of the fact that they have glasses?

SALAM: Glasses-shmasses. This is some kind of mysterious witchcraft and I want no part of it, no thanks to the eclipse.

WALLACE: All right, Kara, let me try with you, because sounds like --

SWISHER: Thank you, Marjorie Taylor Greene for that one. Yes, it's some witchcraft.

WALLACE: This sounds like the kind of thing that you would get on board.

SWISHER: Absolutely not. No. I saw an eclipse when I was a kid and that was plenty for me. And in 20 years when I'm really old --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What's the matter with everyone here? It's amazing. It's one of the most incredible cosmic events. how far, far would you go to get see the eclipse?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'll walked three feet outside and see the 89 percent occlusion that's going to happen in the D.C. area. I'm not flying anywhere for it. I'll see it on TikTok. I'll see it on TikTok will cover it.


WALLACE: We've actually got more things to yea or nay. Next, the legal right to disconnect. California lawmakers have introduced a bill giving workers the right to ignore emails, to ignore calls or texts from their bosses after hours.

If it passes, it will be the nation's first law allowing such a thing, and it would follow similar rules already in effect in more than a dozen countries. Lulu, are you yea or nay on ignoring your boss after hours.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: If it's legally protected, I'm a hard yea. And that's what this is about. I mean, I wouldn't do it now, obviously, because I want to stay employed, but I would certainly do it if there was a law that allowed me not to have to answer. And I'll tell you, I see everyone shaking their head, and let me tell you why I think this is good. This is already there and France. The reason I --

WALLACE: Well, if the French are --


GARCIA-NAVARRO: The French are doing it. I love that. What's the matter with the French? All right, listen, what I want to say about this --

WALLACE: Just say it quickly.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to say it quickly, which is there are laws regulating every part of our life. We now live in the digital world. They can bring -- make us work at any time. We need to be able to sort of put a stop to it.

WALLACE: OK, Jim, are you -- where are you on the right to disconnect after hours?

GERAGHTY: Boss, if the office is on fire, if the president has been shot, if there's something really huge and important, fine, give me a call. If you want to talk about fantasy football, I'm pretty sure it can wait until wait morning.

WALLACE: Yes. But you're not going to know when the phone rings, so you're going to pick up the phone.

GERAGHTY: And then you're like, you're nodding. Yes, that's great. I got another call coming in, I think it's a source. And then -- or my house is on fire. Let's go.

WALLACE: OK, I hope your sources and your bosses aren't watching.

Finally, the new breakup trend, divorce diamonds. According to jewelry experts, more and more women are redesigning their wedding rings after splitting with their husbands as a way to keep the stones, but turn them into something new. They say, it's meant to symbolize a fresh start after a marriage ends.

Now, Kara, I know you've been through a divorce, as have I.

SWISHER: That's what I was going to say.

WALLACE: The question is, did you take your wedding ring from your first marriage and turn it into something?

SWISHER: I don't know where it is. No. No. I think it's silly. But whatever.

WALLACE: I saved mine.

SWISHER: Did you? What, do you were around your neck? What did you do with it?

WALLACE: No, it's in a drawer somewhere.

SWISHER: All right, yes.

WALLACE: You wouldn't turn it into a ring?

SWISHER: No, no. It's ridiculous.

WALLACE: Up next, the Gen Z movement that could payoff for all of us for generations to come. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


WALLACE: Under the radar this week, a new trend among graduating high school seniors -- skipping the traditional four-year college route. Instead, as "The Wall Street Journal" put it, Gen Z becoming the toolbelt generation by increasingly looking at the trades as an alternative. In fact, trade schools had seen us 16 percent jump in enrollments since 2022.

One of the biggest factors, the soaring cost of higher ed. This "New York Times" headline underscores the point. "Tuition at some private colleges is now up to $100,000 a year for the first time." Yikes. Meaning many Gen Z-ers are picking carpentry over cardiology.


So Kara, are they ahead of the curve or are they missing the point?

SWISHER: No, they're ahead of the curve. This is fantastic. I've been talking about this for years. I think it's really important to get all kinds of qualifications and other jobs. They're great jobs, great money. By the way, A.I. is not going to affect them quite as much. And it's a great way to make a living. And I encourage one of my kids to think about it's like this, because I think he'd be better at that.

WALLACE: I don't if this is politically incorrect or not, Jim, but is there any stigma still about being a blue collar worker as opposed to a white-collar worker?

GERAGHTY: So when I knew we were going to talk about this, I asked my friends. People in Washington, D.C., were like yes, absolutely. People outside of --

WALLACE: Absolutely what?

GERAGHTY: Absolutely that there is still a stigma, that you can make a lot of money, but it's doesn't necessarily have status, it's doesn't necessarily have a certain class you're associated with. You're not white-collar, et cetera. Outside of Washington, D.C., like heck no, it's absolutely totally normal. They know plumbers make a heck of a lot of money.

By the way, the point about the $100,000 a year colleges, they know that two years the attendance drops off a cliff because of population changes and there are fewer incoming 18-year-olds. They know that, right? They know that they're not able to keep charging this forever?

WALLACE: I was going to say that's tuition.

GERAGHTY: I've got some teenagers. I'm very aware of that.

WALLACE: The cost of tuition when I went to college -- of course, we didn't have lights or electricity then -- $4,000 a year. Lulu, according to one let's study the median pay in new construction

hires has been higher than new jobs in the information sector for four years. So not only are you avoiding the cost of college, you might actually get paid more for this new job.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's wonderful. I think you have in Germany, which is one of the reasons that you had such a great sort of industrial country there, they really put a lot of money into trades. And so you're seeing that here now. And also, there's a lot of new jobs in things like wind energy and solar energy that requires specific skills that don't require a four-year college degree. And so I really do think it's a great thing.

WALLACE: Real quickly, Reihan?

SALAM: I'd go further and say let's have work-study program in high school. That's a great way to keep kids motivated, get them earning, get them to build a sense of responsibility. That if they do choose to go to college, they use it wisely and well, they have some skin in the game. I think it's a big improvement.

WALLACE: Where was this when I sent all four my children to college?


WALLACE: The panel is back with their takes on hot stories or what will be in the news before it's news. Thats right after this break.



WALLACE: It's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening, or predictions of what we should be looking out for. So Jim, hit me with your best shot.

GERAGHTY: Gas prices are still higher by historical standards. We're getting into summer driving season. Maybe not next week, but let's say May, June, you're going to be hearing a lot of people complaining about high gas prices.

WALLACE: Are we going back to $4 a gallon?


WALLACE: Maybe that's going to be an economic issue, that's going to be a big political issue if it's true.

Kara, you're focused on tech and temblors?

SWISHER: Yes, and temblors. There's just obviously this earthquake in New York, but it's the very significant one was in Taiwan where 80 to 90 percent of high-end chips for advanced applications are made by companies like Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing.

Our country depends on these chips in a very critical way, especially around A.I., Invidia, Apple, and everything else. A single vibration can destroy thousands and thousands of them. So it's very important to diversify where they're being made, and U.S. investors are putting trillions of dollars to build these new fads.

But it's slow and it puts critical innovation at risk. And I haven't even brought up the possibility of China invading Taiwan. We need to diversify.

WALLACE: Reihan, best shot.

SALAM: There's a growing black backlash against diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. Recently, the radio megastar Charlamagne Tha God, was talking about DEI programs as little more than corporate virtue signaling. Other black voices are saying that these programs are condescending, that they're actually counterproductive.

And actually you're seeing an interesting shift of younger black voters toward the GOP, something that President Trump, former President Trump is looking to capitalize on in his 2024 presidential campaign.

WALLACE: So do you think, briefly, that the decline of DEI is a good thing?

SALAM: I do, and I think that you actually see majorities of folks in pretty much every racial group who express a lot of skepticism about using race over meritocratic hiring.

WALLACE: Lulu, bring us home.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: This Easter weekend there was a very touching photo of former President Trump with two of his grandchildren. And he's looking, if you see there, rather svelte. And that caught the eye, as you can imagine, of many on social media and elsewhere. And there has been a lot of chatter about whether he is on the big O. And by that, I mean "Ozempic," to the point where "The New York Times," my employer, actually ended up writing to the campaign to formally ask them if he was on Ozempic.

And the reason I find this interesting is because Trump is larger than life. That is his brand. He's a big guy. And this shrinks you. And so it might be that he wants to be healthier. It might be that he wants to be more attractive on camera for the campaign. But it also might be that it could hurt him in the end because he just doesn't seem quite as imposing perhaps if he does go on the Ozempic journey, which I know you guys have.

WALLACE: And I know you were worried because you want him to be as imposing as possible.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Of course, of course. It's really out of concern for him, but maybe it's might not be a --

WALLACE: We should just point out, we have no idea what he's doing. Maybe he's --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. Maybe he's working out.

WALLACE: Maybe he's working out.

SALAM: He's such a disciplined guy.

WALLACE: Gang, thank you all for being here. And thank you for spending part of your day with us. These guys are impossible. We'll see you right back here next week.