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The Chris Wallace Show

Supreme Court Announces Unanimous Decision That Plaintiffs In Case Against Abortion Pill Have No Standing; Supreme Court Justice Alito Draws Controversy After Audio Of Secretly Taped Conversation Regarding Supreme Court And Religion Released; Hunter Biden Found Guilty For Lying On Form About His Drug Addiction When Purchasing Gun; Federal Agents Arrest Eight Tajikistan Nationals Illegally In U.S. With Suspected Terrorist Ties To ISIS; New Traffic Cameras Send Tickets to Drivers Who Do Not Come to Full Stop at Stop Sign. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired June 15, 2024 - 10:00   ET




CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and welcome. It's time to break bound the big stories with some smart people. Today we're asking, following this Supreme Court's abortion pill decision, how will it change the debate over this highly charged issue?

Then backfire, the unexpected fallout for gun advocates from Hunter Biden's guilty verdict.

And carded -- the head-scratching moved by a restaurant and keep some people over 21 from eating there.

The panel is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.

Up first, a major decision by the Supreme Court allowing the so-called abortion pill to stay on the market. What's more surprising, all nine justices agreed at a time when at least one of them is under even more scrutiny for his views.


JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: I don't think we've ever had a unanimous decision on anything related to abortion.

WALLACE: The unanimous decision a win for abortion rights advocates, but it still leaves the door open for future lawsuits against the FDA to stop the sale of mifepristone.

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must remain clear-eyed about the threats to reproductive freedom in America.

WALLACE: The decision comes just days after Justice Samuel Alito was heard in a secret recording. JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO, SUPREME COURT: One side or the other is going to win.

WALLACE: Talking to a liberal activist posing as a Christian conservative.

LAUREN WINDSOR: People in this country who believe in God have got to keep fighting for that to return our country to a place the godliness.

ALITO: I agree with you. I agree with you.

WALLACE: The activist also recording Chief Justice John Roberts, who pushed back.

WINDSOR: You don't think there's like a role for that court in guiding us toward a more moral path?

CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS, SUPREME COURT: No. I think the role for the court is deciding the cases.

WALLACE: The recordings just the latest in a recent trend of probes into Supreme Court justices, including from "Pro Publica," which Alito criticized.

ALITO: They look for any little thing they can find, and they try to make something out of it.


WALLACE (on camera): Here with me today, podcaster and author Kara Swisher, Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and "National Review" contributing editor, "New York Times" journalist and podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and author and conservative pollster, Kristen Soltis Anderson. Welcome back everyone.

Kristen, is the court's abortion pill decision a big deal or a little deal?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, FOUNDING PARTNER, ECHELON INSIGHTS: It's a big deal in that it takes the issue not completely off the table, but had they ruled in a different way and were this pill not available, this would be a massive political firestorm for Republicans in the fall. The fact that the Supreme Court ruled the way it did, and ruled unanimously, I think is very important because it will really take the heat off of a lot of these, I think especially Senate candidates whose job would be to confirm justices. They were getting asked a lot more questions about this issue that they probably don't want to answer.

WALLACE: Kara, it seems to me that there are two questions here. First, the policy question about access to abortion, and then how the issue plays out on the campaign on both of those aspects, is this decision a big deal or a little deal?

KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": I think Kristen is right. It takes it off the table, calms things down a little bit. But it isn't really the end of it in any way because it's about standing. It's not the actual thing. It's a thing about the thing. And so in that way, it's a little deal. But they can come back again and again. I mean, Melinda Gates just tweeted about that and said this is not by any means the end of this, because they'll come back --

WALLACE: I have to say, this whole question of standing, which is whether somebody has a right to sue because they've somehow been harmed, Just Alito apparently famously said, so what's it to you? That's what standing good. So you have to explain why it is to you.

You were shaking your head at Kara's answer.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: Both of their answers, actually. I think it's a big deal because, not been for the reasons that they say, but because actually, yes, it takes it off the table for now. But we have cases in Idaho, Kansas, and Missouri, that have mounted challenges. The people that brought this case, the ADF, who have been really pushing this, have said that they didn't get to the merits of the case, and they were very excited about what might be coming down the pipe.


So this is far from over, and I think that that message is going to be playing out over and over for Democrats.

WALLACE: I would argue there's another reason why it does take the issue off the table for the campaign, and that is because of the fact that if President Trump is elected, he'll be in charge of the FDA, and he could pick somebody who would just say, you know what, mifepristone, it's not safe. We're going to tighten it up or we're going to take it off. And it'll still be an issue in the campaign.

I want to turn to another subject, which is Justice Alito and that secret recording where he was asked about the polarization between the right and the left. Here was his answer.


JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO, SUPREME COURT: I mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully. But it's different, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can't be compromised.


WALLACE: Reihan, is Alito a culture warrior?

REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW": I don't think he is in his role as a Supreme Court justice. There was one passage in that secret recording where he actually explicitly referred to his role on the court, and he said that, look, these big cultural questions aren't the court's business. That's above our pay grade.

What he was doing was dealing with someone who was trying to bait him and, frankly, trying to placate the person and trying to move the conversation along. I really don't think there's much to see here other than that, yes, he's a faithful Christian who is concerned about polarization and the state of the country. And he, like anyone else who pays any attention, is anxious about how rancorous are cultural debates have become.

WALLACE: Lulu, Alito at one point said either one side or the other, the right or the left, is going to win. Same question, do you think he's a culture warrior? And if he is, how do you explain his vote on the abortion pill decision?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think I explain his vote on the abortion pill decision because it was on a very narrow bit of law, which is on standing. So I don't think it speaks to the merits, as the people on the right have been citing.

And I think he is a culture warrior. I think it is very difficult to separate the way that he has ruled on the bench and the way that he sounds in this recording. I'll also say, I don't believe, and I don't like when people are secretly recorded. I don't think it's fair. So I don't I don't approve of the methods here. But I do think that it's fair game to understand the thinking that animates the decision-making of these very, very important figures.

WALLACE: It takes us to our next question, Kristen, which is, what did you think of the secret recording by a liberal activist posing as a conservative activist at a private? Did that offend you?

ANDERSON: I agree with lulu in that it doesn't sit right with me, that I think when it comes to folks who are in the public eye, I like the idea that they're being held accountable. But I think there are ways to hold people accountable and to learn about their views that don't have to be like. When I was very young and Washington, I remember getting to hear a talk from the late Justice Scalia, all about his views on things like search and seizure. It was very interesting and illuminating to me. And I feel like justices are just going to stop doing that sort of thing altogether in this new climate.

WALLACE: You know, Kara, it's interesting. On the one hand, would I have done it? No, obviously, I wouldn't. But on the other hand, it was fascinating. It was on the front page of every newspaper in America, the lead of all newscasts. Are justices fair again.

SWISHER: I do think they are. I didn't have as much problem with Project Veritas or any of them in that way, if that's what they're going to do. And this particular person is has had a really interesting history of doing this. I think it's fine. They should be very careful what they say in public, or it should match with what they say in private. It seems like, in this case, with the Alito stuff, he says a lot of this in public in his rulings and everything else. So I wasn't shocked by the difference.

WALLACE: I have to say, Kristen, what was so instructive, and we sought in our piece, was this was not a hard question to answer, and John Roberts answered it the right way. He said, we don't get into those questions of being moral or taking the country towards godliness. We decide cases. I mean, it was an easy -- it was, it was a softball question, and he's he missed it. ANDERSON: Well, it's clear that Roberts was on guard, and rightly so.

It's clear that Chief Justice Roberts knows the world that he lives in, and Alito let his guard down a little bit, and he will, I almost certainly believe, not let his guard down again.

SALAM: I'm sorry, guys, but many of you have been in public forums where you're dealing with people asking you very persistent, frankly, tiresome questions, where you just want to placate them and move on. What I heard from Justice Alito was simply him saying I agree with you. I agree with you, wouldn't it be great if we were all living in a much godlier certainly. I think it's really that straightforward.

SWISHER: No, no, I never want to placate people, Reihan.



SALAM: That I believe, Kara. That I believe.

WALLACE: Since November I've learned that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And especially on issues like this. I mean, this isn't someone asking you casual things now. Hey, how are you doing? How's it feeling? They're asking you issues about the law, and something very, very important. And so it's ridiculous to think that he was trying to placate that person.

WALLACE: Staying with the justice theme, jurors found Hunter Biden guilty after just three hours of deliberations. Now the question is, should he get jail time?

Also ahead, crisis and concern -- the arrest this week which could make the immigration issue even tougher for President Biden.

And later, stop payment. No, we're not talking about checks, but you may need one when you see what some cities are doing to slow down drivers.



WALLACE: Joe Biden this week torn between his roles as president and a deeply concerned father after his son Hunter was convicted on three federal gun charges. While his son's conviction is obviously tough both personally and politically, some Democrats hope the guilty verdict may help the president as he seeks reelection.


JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm extremely proud of my son, Hunter.

WALLACE: President Biden sticking by his son after a trial that spotlighted Hunter drug-fueled past. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Bidens are making no secret of their desire to be there for Hunter.

WALLACE: Hunter, now facing possible jail time, just like Biden's opponent, Donald Trump.

BIDEN: They found down some guilty on all 34 felony counts.

WALLACE: His son's verdict complicating Biden's plan to win voters by branding Trump a convicted felon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they try the convicted felon line, that could be an easy retort.

WALLACE: But Hunter's conviction also under undercuts one of Trump's main arguments --

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This is a witch hunt.

WALLACE: -- that there are two tiers of justice.

KEN BUCK, FORMER GOP CONGRESSMAN AND PROSECUTOR: People look at this case and recognize that it was done in an independent and fair way.

WALLACE: Hunter's sentencing set to take place before November's election, where he faces a maximum of 25 years in prison. Legal experts say it will likely be much less.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More likely at the 15 to 21 month range.

WALLACE: But that still raises the question, what will his father do?

BIDEN: I said I'd abide by the jury decision, and I will do that, and I will not pardon him.


WALLACE: Kara, this is obviously a wrenching development for Joe Biden personally, but just as a cynical, straight political matter, does it help?

SWISHER: It does, it does, because it shows that your son can be convicted just the way Donald Trump can, the whole two tier legal system -- is it just a tragedy, and he will probably serve time, probably. And I don't think he's going to pardon him, unless he loses the election. I suppose maybe he will then.

WALLACE: Reihan, there's a flipside to this on the political, if Hunter had not been convicted, if he had gotten off, wouldn't it politically have been just a huge boon for Donald Trump? His team was talking about raising tens of millions of dollars on this idea, he gets a trial and gets convicted, the president's does and walks.

SALAM: Yes, it's hard to say. That doesn't sound crazy to me. I can see -- but the truth is, and we don't need to litigate this now, but I think a lot of folks on the right think that Hunter wasn't actually brought up on the right set of charges, that there are other matters that were more serious than this, and that this is kind of a gimme.

WALLACE: But he was convicted and he faces jail time. So it's not -- he doesn't --

SALAM: That's fair. But I guess the view on the right is that the other charges would have implicated other members of the Biden family as well. So just sharing that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So it would have been more politically expedient for -- what he Reihan is actually saying is it's more politically expedient for the people on the right if he had been brought up in other charges than what he was actually -- not on guns.

SALAM: Not so much not expedient, but rather those were the more serious pressing charges.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- on it better, they would have -- it would have hurt politically --

SALAM: I'm so sorry, Lulu. I'm grateful to you for trying to interpret what I was saying. What I was saying is that there were folks who believed that there were more serious criminal matters that would've implicated not just Hunter Biden, but also other members of the Biden family, other folks who had worked for Joe Biden as well. Those are your words, not mine. But I think that --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Not my words. I'm quoting --

WALLACE: A lot of the Republican Party --

SALAM: I didn't offer them in this --

WALLACE: I understand, but I mean, it's not that she made it up.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I just want to say, I did this.


WALLACE: IN any case, one interesting aspect and surprising aspect of Hunter's conviction is the heartburn that it has created and the gun rights community. Here is Republican Congressman Tom Massie.


REP. THOMAS MASSIE, (R-KY): I don't think anybody should be prosecuted for that infraction. If you if you are going to prosecute Hunter Biden for being a drug user and purchasing a gun and having a gun, there are millions of felons in this country just waiting to be arrested because there are millions of marijuana users.


WALLACE: Lulu, did Hunter's trial and conviction backfire on gun advocates?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, I think it did in the sense that if gun advocates are pushing for liberalization of gun laws, and specifically they're pushing for liberalization on the issue that Hunter Biden was convicted on, then it hurts the whole cause that the man that they really wanted to get into trouble is being convicted on this issue.


It's a double standard, and it's really hard to sell this then.

WALLACE: Kristen, you've got Matt Gaetz, a conservative Republican, saying that the conviction was dumb. You've got Lindsey Graham, another conservative, saying that the entire trial was a waste of time. Did this backfire on pro-gun politicians?

ANDERSON: Well, I guess I don't quite follow how it would necessarily have backfired if -- first of all, it doesn't seem as though Hunter Biden's defense team used a sort of Second Amendment defense in the court. So in this case, the jury wasn't necessarily making a statement one way or the other about what the law be, but rather were making a statement about what the law is. And I do wonder if on appeal is that something that could --

SWISHER: They are. They are. And they didn't bring up the Second Amendment, and that's what they're going to argue on appeal, which is a problem for the guns -- the gun control advocates, right? Because he's going to be arguing.

I mean, it's for the Republicans, it's very hard to say let people who have severe drug problems have guns. That's essentially what they're saying. And on the other side, it's a Second Amendment thing.

WALLACE: And then there's the question that Hunter will be facing sometime this fall shortly before the election. Kara, will he face jail time.

SWISHER: Probably. I think he probably will go to jail. The appeals take a while so it could be longer than that, and these things go slowly, but probably he will.

WALLACE: Why do you say that?

SWISHER: Because Bidne is not going to want to give him special treatment, they don't want to look like it's special treatment. It will wind through the system.

WALLACE: I guess really the question is, do you think the prosecutor will seek it and the judge, will give it?

SWISHER: They're probably let the appeal go forward. I'm guessing they'll probably --

WALLACE: But you think he will get a jail sentence?


WALLACE: Kristen, what do you think about that, given the fact, particularly that he didn't seek a plea deal. I mean, there was an old plea deal that fell apart. He went to trial on this, and generally judges and prosecutors don't like that.

ANDERSON: So I am not looking to lock him up, or to Reihan's point on this particular charge of checking a box when he was still using drugs. I don't think people should do it. I don't think that it's good. But I also think that in this country people do far worse things and are not put in jails, are not prosecuted. And I think that when I'm thinking of all the people who really deserve to be incarcerated and taken off the streets, Hunter Biden is not at the top of my list.

SALAM: This only happened, this trial only happened because the sweetheart plea deal that Hunter Biden was offered was so egregiously over the top in its generosity, and that wound up blowing up in the face of Hunter Biden and his defense team. And I'm sorry for him, and I'm sorry for his family, but that's what happened.

WALLACE: Speaking of jail time, the arrest this week, which are raising red flags about who is crossing the border.

Also ahead, no service -- the restaurant trying to keep some customers out.



WALLACE: Now, new evidence backing up old claims that in the flood of people crossing the southern border, some maybe terrorists. Federal agents arrested eight Tajikistan nationals who were in L.A., New York, and Philadelphia. The group is accused of potential ties to ISIS. They all cross the border, some more than a year ago, and passed the screening process without any red flags. It's an issue Donald Trump has been warning about a long time.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Record levels of terrorists, record levels, the highest level we've ever seen of terrorists are pouring into our country.


WALLACE: We checked that out, and according to government data, even though they make up a tiny fraction of migrants, about the same number of people on the terror watchlist have tried to cross during the Trump and Biden presidencies. But since Biden took office, there has been a spike in illegal crossings.

Kristen, how real is the terror threat at the U.S. border?

ANDERSON: I think it's very real. I think this story points that out very clearly. And I think it's the issue we've had with the immigration debate over the last year or so has been, well, is it a crisis? Is it not a crisis? And for some voters, they may think, well, it seems really bad that we can't secure our border.

If there's one thing a countries should be able to do, isn't this core function something we should be able to do? This makes it real for voters. Even if you think, look, I wish we had more secure border, this suddenly means there could be consequences for you personally if there is some kind of a terrorist attack that could have been prevented by better border security.

WALLACE: Now, Secretary of Homeland Security Mayorkas has been is saying for years that the border is secure. Take a look.


ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The border is closed. The border is secure.

The border is secure.

The border, we are working to make the border more secure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary Mayorkas, do you continue to maintain the border is secure?

MAYORKAS: Yes. And we are working day in and day out to enhance its security.


WALLACE: Lulu, last week, we talked about this, and you said when Mayorkas was talking about the border being secure, he was talking about it being secure from terrorists. After the news this week about these eight people from Tajikistan with potential ties to ISIS, do you have second thoughts about that?



First, I'd like to say, potential ties to ISIS. We don't actually know exactly who these people are. There's been a lot of people who have been on watchlists or people feel uncomfortable about it, and it's never been -- we don't know if they had a plot here. We don't know anything about them. So it's the first thing I'd say.

The second thing I'd say is you pointed it out there perfectly, which is the number of people who were on terror watchlist under Donald Trump and Biden have remained the same, even while the numbers have increased of people crossing the border. I mean, this is a persistent problem. There are, of course, people who want to come into this country to do harm, that is always going to be the case.

WALLACE: But I guess the question is, these people weren't on a terror watchlist. They got the information from Tajikistan. And when you've got three or four times as many people coming across the border under Biden than under Trump, aren't the odds that somebody maybe who is not on the terror watchlist but gets into the country could cause harm?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Listen, there is no question. I have said this persistently, that the border is a crisis that needs to be addressed. But the real issue here is if there had been actual, an immigration deal the Republicans didn't want, you would've had money for counterterrorism. Over the last 10 years under Trump and under Biden, there has been a defunding of the counterterrorism effort at the border. And so more money would mean more security.

WALLACE: Well, there's no question that President Biden has a big political problem on the issue of immigration. Check out these numbers. In a recent poll, 52 percent sound said Biden (ph) is better on immigration and border security, 25 percent said that -- about Biden. Reihan, does this story about the eight people from Tajikistan take a big political problem that Biden has and make it even worse?

SALAM: I think it does. And I also think beyond the political problem, there's a big substantive challenge. Theres been a huge surge in the number of migrants who are coming from outside of the western hemisphere. Basically, if you look at folks who are coming in via Ecuador, basically on a visa free basis, they're coming from China, coming from a range of other societies, from across Africa, part of the issue here, as you were noting before, not everyone is already on a watchlist. We have a number of serious geopolitical rivals who see this opportunity as basically how they can embed dangerous folks within American cities.

SWISHER: I recall people getting in 9/11.

SALAM: Nineteen hijackers who did a lot of damage.

SWISHER: And they also took flight lessons at the same time. This is something that's happened forever. And people that are -- with bad intent are going to get into this country to do things. And so the question is, is this a new thing, which it isn't, by the numbers, or what can we do to fund it so we can deal with counterterrorism, which I think is the bigger problem. I'm not sure it's an immigration problem. It's that bad people are going to get in and do bad things.

WALLACE: But when three or four times, again, at 2 million versus six or 8 million people come in, 8 million, the chances of it happening --

SALAM: There's no question those numbers matter a huge now because basically you don't have the ability to apprehend, to monitor, to surveil when you're overwhelmed.


WALLACE: I want to get to one last point. And President Biden realizing this is a big political problem, is taking actions in these final months before the election. Last week he basically shut down the asylum process for people who cross the border illegally. Now, there are reports he plans to provide legal status to long term undocumented immigrants who are married to U.S. citizens. Kristen, will Biden's border actions tick off everyone, both the right and the left, by trying to straddle it this way?

ANDERSON: In the polling that I've seen, the answer is yes, in part because Republicans don't like any of this because Biden's doing it, and Democrats don't really like it because it seems, at least the pieces about reducing the ability for people to apply for asylum, that it seems like it's too tough, that it perhaps seems like it's inhumane or not pro migrant enough. So Biden is in kind of a tough situation here where it's maybe making no one really happy.

WALLACE: All right, several cities are putting a stop to a different kind of crime in a way that's costing a lot of people money. We'll explain.

Plus, the beef about beef that's caused quite the hot dog eating uproar.



WALLACE: Once again, it's time to get our group's yea or nay on some big talkers. Up first, more cities and states adopting a flashy way to slow down drivers. We're talking about stop sign cameras which go off if you don't come to a complete stop. Here in D.C., they're all over the place and offenders get mailed $100 ticket. Now cities like New York and Baltimore have reached out to D.C. about its program, which has raked in millions of dollars for the nations' capital.

Kristen, yea or nay, on stop sign cameras?

ANDERSON: This is going to make all my civil libertarian friends mad, but I'm a yea on this because I am also a pedestrian in Washington D.C. I walk around with my old golden retriever. I push a stroller. And there are some people on the road who are nuts.


Now, I don't know -- Kara is waving like, hello, it's me.


ANDERSON: I don't know if these cameras are actually going to be a deterrent, and you hear these stories all the time of people who rack up tens of thousands of dollars and tickets and never pay them. But anything that will make it safer for pedestrians, I'm --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But they don't work. I've been hit by these, and it's infuriated --

WALLACE: What do you mean "hit by these"?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Hit by these tickets saying that I haven't stopped at a stop sign, and I am a good driver.

WALLACE: Note to the file, Lulu does not come to a complete stop.


WALLACE: But there's a picture that they send you, and there I am with my with my lights on stopping at the at the at the stop sign. WALLACE: You're just taking the hole bigger.


WALLACE: OK, next, getting carded isn't just from folks under 21 anymore. A St. Louis restaurant is now imposing a different age requirement, banning women under 30 and men under 35 from dining there. The owners say they want to keep the atmosphere, quote, "grown up and sexy." Kara, are you yay or nay on banning young adults? We're not talking about kids here.

SWISHER: I get it. I guess, if I want to, that's what they do, if they want to create that kind of environment, sure. I mean, because the youngs can be noisy.


SWISHER: But I don't know. I'm just blowing stop signs most of the time.


WALLACE: At least you admit it.


WALLACE: And Lulu, the folks at this St. Louis restaurant, which is called Bliss, say that the people in their 20s -- again, we're not talking about kids -- they're too rowdy. They bring too much drama. So where are you on this idea of saying --



GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's ageism. That's -- no, I think it's a terrible thing to do. And first of all, the real problem here is that they made it worse for women than for men. They said women could come in -- worse for men than for women. Women can come into 30, men can come into 35. It's also sexism. Everything about this is problematic.

WALLACE: OK, finally, a July 4th tradition has a beef with its biggest star. Nathan's famous hot dog eating contest has banned 16- time champ Joey Chestnut from competing for another mustard yellow belt next month. Nathan says it's because Chestnut made a deal to represent Impossible Foods, which makes plant-based hot dogs. Chestnut, who holds the world record, eating 76 hot dogs in 10 minutes says he's got it. Reihan, are you relishing this decision or not?

SALAM: I think that this was a very wise decision on Nathan's part. I'm a great believer in food innovation and alternative proteins, but this is on Nathan's dime and you're supposed to be eating Nathan's real-world actual beef hotdogs, not all protein hot dogs.

WALLACE: OK, but one day after Joey was banned from the July 4th contest, Netflix announced it will stage the unfinished beef showdown between Chestnut and his big rival to Takeru Kobayashi live on Labor Day. Kara yea or nay on how this all worked out for Joey Chestnut?

SWISHER: Netflix is genius. It's a great idea. It's a great idea, and they moved right in there and moved fast. And I love a Nathan's hot dog, by the way, saying that still.

WALLACE: Have you had an Impossible Foods hotdog?

SWISHER: Yes, of course, we introduced them at one of my conferences the first time.


WALLACE: Which do you prefer, beef or fake --

SWISHER: The Nathan's hot dog.

WALLACE: And I've got to say, maybe not as good for you, but it's really delicious.

Up next, hey Siri, is Apple's bite of the A.I. industry being over- hyped? Back in a moment.



WALLACE: Over/Under this week, whether Apple's long-awaited entry into artificial intelligence is being over-hyped. Apple intelligence, as it's called, will generate email responses for you, let you edit unwanted objects out of photos, and even help you create new emojis. But most exciting to many iPhone users is Apple will partner with OpenAI, the maker of ChatGPT, to make major improvements to Siri, it's personal assistant, and hopefully avoid situations like this.


LARRY DAVID, COMEDIAN: Siri, directions to Wolfsglen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Directions to Great Wolf Lodge.

DAVID: No, Siri, Wolfsglen restaurant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One option I see, Garden Supply on Benedict Canyon.

DAVID: Siri, Wolfsglen restaurant in Westwood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One option I see, the Wolseley restaurant in Burbank.

DAVID: No. No. No. You're not listening.


WALLACE: Apple has been criticized for being slower to adopt A.I. than companies like Google and Microsoft. Kara, with this new announcement, is Apple ahead or behind the curve on A.I.?

SWISHER: Apple is the kingmaker now of who is going to be, because now all kinds of people are going to be introduced to A.I. in the way you should be, is how can you use it in a day-to-day way? They will integrate it beautifully. They don't have to have an A.I. company to use A.I. And so they've made -- they've given OpenAi a big boost. It's a great idea. It's exactly on time. And it'll be deployed in a way that people will understand finally of what the uses of A.I. are.

WALLACE: Reihan, it's interesting. A.I. will be available on some of the newer models of iPhones, but for older models, I think before 2019, tens of millions of iPhones, this new ai software isn't going to work, which means of course that Apple will sell tens of millions of more iPhones. Is Apple ahead or behind the curve on getting into the A.I. game?


SALAM: Well, my sense is that they're behind. They shuttered their Apple car initiative, and that was a big, big blow. And now they're scrambling to catch up. When you look at Microsoft, those are folks who are being incredibly nimble, aggressive, acquiring a ton of really promising companies.

So I think there behind, and let's see if they catch up or if they get commoditized, which is a very dangerous place for them to be.

WALLACE: Lulu, how excited are you about Apple getting into A.I. and it being on your phone and your --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm horrified. I am not an A.I. supporter. I'm tired of being a guinea pig for Silicon Valley, which is what I feel like when these things are introduced without our permission and consent. And sure, will it mean that I can talk to Siri and maybe that's not going to happen from the clip you showed, but I just I don't like it. I don't like it, and I don't want it as part of my life.

SWISHER: You can have a pre-2019 phone.


SWISHER: It'll be great.

WALLACE: The panel is back with their takes on hot stories, and I have a wild best shot up my own. That's right after the break.



WALLACE: It's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for. So Kristen, hit me with your best shot.

ANDERSON: Well, this is election year in the United States, but it is also election season in a lot of other places around the world. And just around the time were celebrating our independence here in the U.S., both France and the U.K. will be having elections after President Macron announced kind of snap elections in France following a really tough showing for centrist parties in the European elections. So keep an eye out this summer. I think the incumbents in both the U.K., the conservatives there, Rishi Sunak and in France, incumbents are going to have a tough time.

WALLACE: Kara, you're focus is on one of your favorite subjects, Elon Musk.

SWISHER: Yes, he won a big victory this week around the shareholders approving his $44 billion pay package. It still has legal challenges going on, but "The Wall Street Journal" is continuing it's devastating covered of his personal life and how he mixes business and pleasure, especially at SpaceX with some personal relationships there with women, some consensual, others who knows? And so it was a really devastating piece, but it doesn't seem to matter. He seems to, very much like Trump, it's baked in, his weirdnesses are baked in.

WALLACE: Reihan, best shot?

SALAM: If you remember your middle school American history, you'll remember the Monroe doctrine, this 200-year-old notion that the United States will endeavor to keep foreign powers out of the western hemisphere. Well, just this week, Russian warships showed up outside Cuba, and now the Chinese are planning on building a major new port in Peru. Suddenly, America's backyard is getting a lot more crowded.

WALLACE: It's interesting, because while that was happening, the Russians coming into Havana, the U.S. surfaced a nuclear sub at Guantanamo Bay on the eastern end of Cuba. Was that a reasonable response by the Biden administration?

SALAM: As Teddy Roosevelt said, speak softly and carry a big stick. I think this one let's a very good move on the part of the Biden administration.

WALLACE: Lulu, bring us on.

GALLAGHER: Mine is on the southern Baptist Convention, which voted to oppose the use of IVF. This matters because of the evangelical vote. And I think, again, we have reproductive freedom at the center of another very high profile issue in this country. I think when we see something like the Southern Baptist Convention do something like this, it sends a signal to women, especially female voters, that it's not only abortion, it's not only now potentially contraception, it's now the very right to have IVF and to bear a child that is also under assault on the right.

WALLACE: What's interesting is despite the vote by the IVF, reporting is that the evangelicals very much take advantage of fertility treatments and tend to view it as very different from abortion because the ultimate -- yes, there are the embryos, but the ultimate intention is to create a life, not end one.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I know. And so that's the logical response that I see. But what I think they see is this novel argument that somehow these embryos are viable humans, or potentially viable humans, and so destroying them is actually an act of murder.

WALLACE: Before we go, I have a best shot of my own in honor of Father's Day. Last week during the yea or nay segment, Reihan said he'd never played the card game Uno. We were all shocked and dismayed. Well, it turns out the folks at Mattel, which makes Uno, and they sent over this gift -- oh, there's the right side of it -- along with a card that reads, "Reihan, we know you're new to the game. Just remember, when you're down to one card, you've got to shout "Uno!" Happy Father's Day. So here is all of your Uno swag.

SALAM: Wow, that's amazing. Thank you, Mattel. And thank you, Chris.

WALLACE: Well, I had nothing to do with it. But I'll tell you, the marketing people at Mattel --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They know what they're doing.

ANDERSON: I would just like to say, I've never driven a Ferrari.


WALLACE: Actually, that's exactly what we were thinking, or drank Dom Perignon. Exactly.

Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. And we'll see you right back here next week.