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The Chris Wallace Show

More Democrats Calling on President Joe Biden to Step Down as Democratic Party's Presidential Nominee in 2024; Vice President Kamala Harris Poised to Become Democratic Party's Presidential Nominee If Joe Biden Steps Down; Donald Trump's Speech at Republican National Convention Accepting the Republican Party's Presidential Nomination Draws Criticism for Being Too Long and Divisive; California Governor Gavin Newsom Signs First in Nation Bill Banning Schools from Notifying Parents If Their Child Changes Gender Identity; Elon Musk Vows to Move X and SpaceX Company Headquarters from California Due to New LGBTQ Bill; Mayor of Paris, France, Swims in Seine River to Demonstrate Its Suitability for Possible Use in Summer Olympics; U.S. States Favorite Ice Cream Flavors Examined Ahead of National Ice Cream Day. Aired 10- 11a ET.

Aired July 20, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and welcome. It's time to break down the big stories with some smart people.

Today, we're asking, while everyone waits to see if President Biden drops out of the race, is Kamala Harris a sure thing to replace them at the top of the ticket?

Then, same old, same old. Did Donald Trump's shift in his speed from reflect job to vindictive win him any new supporters?

And going retro, young married couples ripping a page out of the "I Love Lucy" playbook in a surprising trend experts say is healthy.

The panel is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.

Up first, President Biden is in Delaware this weekend physically isolated fighting because of COVID and politically isolated from many in his party who want him to quit the race. But while his campaign says he is not dropping out, that's not stopping some Democrats from pushing him both privately and very publicly.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to pass the torch and let us choose a new nominee.

WALLACE: Democrats hitting the airwaves with a new ad, pushing Biden to leave the race.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our country's future is in your hands. WALLACE: The latest salvo in a barrage of pressure on the president

as he recovers from COVID at his beach house and his campaign continues to push back on Democratic defectors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Biden is more committed than ever to beat Donald Trump.

WALLACE: The top Democrats in Congress telling Biden privately, then leaking to the media, that he is not only going to lose, but possibly hand the House and the Senate to Republicans.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI, (D-IL): I think he ultimately knows the stakes.

WALLACE: But if Biden steps aside, the big question is, what happens next?

REP. ADAM SMITH, (D-WA): I think we ought to go ahead and nominate our nominee at the convention like we're supposed to.

WALLACE: And who will take the baton from Biden?

TIM RYAN, (D-OH) FORMER REPRESENTATIVE: I just think that that Kamala is the person.

WALLACE: But others don't think the vice president is the best bet to beat Trump.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D-NY): A huge amount of these folks in these rooms that I see that are pushing for President Biden to not be the nominee also are not interested in seeing the vice president being the nominee.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WALLACE (on camera): Here with me today, podcaster and author Kara Swisher, Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and "National Review" contributing editor, "New York Times" journalist and podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and editor of "The Dispatch columnist and columnist at "The L.A. Times" Jonah Goldberg. Welcome back, everyone.

Jonah, is Biden in or out?

JONAH GOLDBERG, "THE DISPATCH": I think Biden thinks he's in and he's going to be out. I think they've gone -- they've left the phase where they tried to quietly pressure him and give him some dignity, persuade him. The persuasion phase is over, and now they are going to make it as painful as possible for him and force him out. And that's a different process and it's a much uglier one.

WALLACE: And you think they can force him out of his hell bent on staying in the race?

GOLDBERG: I think if they -- look, first of all, if I'm going to bet on somebody, I'd bet more on Nancy Pelosi than I would on Joe Biden. I think Nancy Pelosi is sort of like in "The Godfather," it was Barzini all along. I think it's Pelosi behind all of this.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLDBERG: And I think that, you know, the money is turning off. And the poll numbers are not going to get to the point where Biden, because Biden has set a standard that can't be met because we're so polarized. But at some point, I think we're going probably see some staffers quit, and the pressure is just going to get so bad. And the ability to get him to do this in a face saving way I think is over, but I think he's going to go.

WALLACE: We've got this puzzle where unnamed sources say the president has begun -- I love this phrase -- has begun to accept the idea he may have to drop out. But yesterday, he released this statement, "I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week."

Lulu, is Biden in or out?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: I think he's out. I think it's inevitable at this point. I, too, would back Nancy Pelosi. I think once you see people leaking her discussions, that is a signal to the entire Democratic Party that it's pretty much over for Joe Biden. He doesn't have the support anymore of the people that he needs. We talked about this earlier. We were all saying, if senior leadership, if we see senior members of the Democratic Party actually go and talk to him and trying and push them out, then that is the sign that he is on his way out.

[10:05:09]

And we have seen that. And so we are at the end game now.

WALLACE: But to do my bad Biden impression, he's still there.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, he's still there. And can I just say, this, I think, is incredibly sad. This is a man who has given his entire career to for this country. He has behaved honorably. What you're seeing is people on -- his enemies calling him, vilifying him and saying that he's evil. And the people who are supposed to be his friends saying that he needs to be kicked out. It's a very ignominious end to quite a storied career. That said, it is an end.

WALLACE: If Biden drops out, repeat if, the next question is, who is going to replace him. A new poll finds 56 percent of Democrats want the best nominee, no matter who, while 33 percent back Vice President Harris. Kara, is Harris a sure thing to replace Biden if he drops out?

KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": As close to a sure thing as possible. I think it would be very hard to dislodge her. She's got the backing of a lot of people in Silicon Valley and the media. She is very close to them. That's where all the money. I always follow the money. And I think it would just be a cycle of terrible news stories to knock her out. She is kind of the next in line.

WALLACE: Do you think that she is the strongest candidate to take on Donald Trump?

SWISHER: If she has a strong vice president, someone who I think will match her well. The possible candidates that have been put out, Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom specifically, have specifically said to me they would back her, I think, that they would --

WALLACE: Yes, but the question is, will the voters back her?

SWISHER: Well, that's the question. I think she becomes more interesting and substantive once she runs, right, once she's there. And so it changes your status if you're the front person right away.

WALLACE: There are several factors that certainly favor Harris getting the nomination, again, if Biden decides to drop out. The $91 million in the Biden campaign war chest can easily be transferred to Harris, but no one else. And are Democrats, as Kara suggested, willing to pass over the first black woman vice president? Reihan, same question. Is Harris the sure thing to replace Biden if he drops out of the race?

REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW": No, I don't think she is the sure thing. I think if you're going to do something this dramatic, ambitious, and drastic, people are going to want to maximize their chances. Do I think it's the most likely? Yes. There's a lot of inertia. People are going to be anxious. That's going to seem like a safe bet.

But if you are going to these extreme lengths, let me tell you, if you go from Trump, call it a 25 percent chance of winning. Go to Kamala, maybe it's 35, 40 percent. If you go to someone like a Josh Shapiro, who represents a very high risk for the left of the party, but you have a much, much stronger chance of winning. And that's the dilemma they face.

If you see what's happening right now around the politics of who is saying what about a Joe Biden, you'll notice it's Bernie Sanders, it's ACO, it's Ilhan Omar.

WALLACE: Who are backing him.

SALAM: Who are backing Biden. Why are they doing that? Jamaal Bowman just lost a big primary in New York. Part of that was about Israel, but part of --

WALLACE: Member of the Squad.

SALAM: Member of the Squad. Part of it was this perception that he was not a loyal Democrat. He didn't fight for the bipartisan infrastructure law. So I think that way but they're trying to show is that we're the loyal ones. We're here, we're sticking with Joe. Joe has given the hard left a huge amount. The so-called unity platform, staffers from the Elizabeth Warren network, they know they owe him a huge amount. And they think heads, I win, tails, you lose. Either way, even if Trump loses, they're going to be very well positioned.

If it's someone like a Josh Shapiro, suddenly they don't have those deep ties, those deep connections, that deep obligation. And that's going to be really interesting to watch.

WALLACE: Let's play this out, Jonah. Let's say Biden sometime in the next few days, people are suggesting as early as Sunday, announces I'm out. Now he may endorse or he may not endorse. What is the -- could you in the course of the next month before the Democratic convention begins, have a real open, mini primary with four or five candidates and town halls or debates or whatever, and go to Chicago and have an open convention?

GOLDBERG: Well, that's our dream, right? I mean, that's the fantasy baseball kind of thing of it.

I do think there's a, there's a hybrid approach, a split the baby approach, which is to go through the formalism of having an open process, but Biden endorses Kamala, releases his delegates, endorses Harris. I think you would see a whole bunch, as one prominent Democrat told me, you would see a super friends effect where a lot of prominent Democrats would rally to her, but she would still have to technically fight for it and win it on her own, which would actually make her stronger without it sounding like she was just given the keys to the kingdom.

[10:10:06]

One reason that Democrats and Congress are pushing so hard for Biden to drop out is the fear that he will take them down with him. Listen to this. In 2016 and 2020, just one Senate candidate in 69 races won in a state that went for the other party's presidential candidate. So ticket splitting is not very common. Lulu, how much trouble are Democrats down ballot in if, either with or without Biden at the top of the ticket?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Like everything in American politics, depends where you are. I think where it matters, which is in races that are tight and races that are in swing states, they are in a lot of trouble right now. What you're seeing more than anything, what this is doing is really affecting not just independents, but the people who are the base of the Democratic party.

I mean, there's this joke that they would vote for Joe Biden even if he was you know, even if it was "Weekend at Bernie's" and he was being reanimated from the dead because they're committed Democrats. But there is a lot of dissatisfaction right now. I've heard it from people saying, you know what, we want something different, we want change, and this infighting is really hurting the Democratic Party. I don't know what they stand for right now. They have to go in guns blazing, and this isn't something that actually is happening. Instead, they're fighting each other instead of actually aiming, so to speak, at the opposition.

WALLACE: Then there's Donald Trump's remarkable week. Polls show he's leading the race by a growing margin. But if Biden did drop out, how would Trump do against a new opponent?

Next, can you keep a secret? The new law forcing teachers to keep kids' private lives from their parents. And later we've got the scoop on the nation's top ice cream flavor.

It's not my top choice, but is it theirs?

Do you have the most popular ice cream?

SWISHER: Isn't it vanilla? Isn't it always vanilla?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:30]

WALLACE: Republicans begin their post-convention push united, with former rivals mending fences with Donald Trump and Hulk Hogan ripping off his shirt. But it was the nominee who raised some questions, reminding voters why they either love or loathe him.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WALLACE: Donald Trump later today making his first campaign stop since the assassination attempt at an indoor arena in Michigan, and the first since accepting the GOP nomination, with a speech his team said would be more reflective and focused on unity. It started that way.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am running to be president for all of America, not half of America.

WALLACE: Then telling the story of his near-death experience in gripping detail.

TRUMP: I'm not supposed to be here tonight.

I stand before you in this arena only by the grace of Almighty God.

WALLACE: But that didn't last long as he quickly reverted to airing old grievances and relitigating 2020.

TRUMP: -- crazy Nancy Pelosi -- the election result. We're never going to let that happen again. They used COVID to cheat.

WALLACE: And while by campaign said Trump wouldn't mention Joe Biden by name, he couldn't help himself.

TRUMP: -- if you took the 10 worst presidents in the history of the United States -- they will not have done the damage that Biden has done.

WALLACE: In the end, it was the longest acceptance speech on record at 92 minutes, boring some, and missing an opportunity to set a new tone.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This really reminded everyone why Donald Trump is fundamentally unpopular outside this room.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WALLACE: Reihan, with apologies to The Who, is the new Trump same as the old Trump?

SALAM: I do think that there is a material difference when it comes to how he's approached this campaign. I think as a general matter, he has been a lot more disciplined. And since the assassination attempt, I think that he has been a bit more somber, has expressed a bit more gratitude. But certainly, look, 92 minutes, that was that was not a wise choice. He had this one moment where he had the public's attention. I think that this was a display of unity, and in a lot of ways the production values were strong, having ordinary Americans really take center stage for much of the convention. It was a really smart move.

The downside is that there was some hubris here. There was some overconfidence. And I think that was reflected in some of Trump's choices this week. So I think --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: There's the teleprompter Trump, and then there's real Trump. I mean, there's the 15 minutes of like actually he was reading the teleprompter and could talk about this speech. And it was gripping, as you said. And then there's what happened the rest, which was kind of like wild hyperbole. He was talking about what's his name.

SWISHER: You know what happened. They pressed the factory reset and then he went back to himself.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: There was a concerted effort at the convention, not only by Trump, but by the choice of guests to soften the hard edges of Trump's image, from a granddaughter's love to talk of divine providence saving him from death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAI MADISON TRUMP, GRANDDAUGHTER OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP: The media makes my grandpa seem like a different person, but I know him for who he is. He is very caring and loving. He truly wants the best for this country.

GOV. SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: (R-AR): God Almighty intervened because America is one nation under God and he is certainly not finished with President Trump.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:00]

WALLACE: Kara, did the convention succeed in softening some of the edges and presenting a different Trump to voters? SWISHER: Until he got up, yes, it worked well. I thought the

granddaughter was charming, was lovely. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, not so much. I didn't think she was very good. But they tried to do it and they tried to do it in lots of different ways. But some of the speakers seemed off kilter. You guys were there, you heard them. I would say it worked a little bit, and then Trump showed up and was Trump that we know him as. And you're like, oh, that guy, again. I remember I was watching that speech, and he was great until he -- and then it was off the rails.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Hannibal Lecter, I mean, it was talking about Hannibal Lecter, all these --

SALAM: Honestly, I think a lot of that stuff comes across as pretty charming and funny to those who are open to him, those who are inclined his way. I think that it certainly was too long. I think there's no getting around that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I don't think talking about immigrants being violent criminals and --

SALAM: I'm sorry, but his whole brand is the idea that he's a truth teller. He says things that other people aren't willing to say.

SWISHER: Yes, but it's the greatest hits thing. A lot of people I know that are independent were like, I didn't believe the media about his rallies. And now I believe that --

WALLACE: That's it, because it wasn't a nomination speech.

SWISHER: It was a rally speech.

WALLACE: It was in the beginning. It was an acceptance speech, and then it became a rally.

WALLACE: This is the inherent tension in the convention. All conventions these days are essentially infomercials. It was a great infomercial. They did a really good job. It was planned. The images that are going to stick with people were really good. The Gold Star families, all of that. Hulk Hogan was a tour de force. The problem is, is that Trump is -- the schism that ran through the whole convention was the people who understood that the audience was a TV audience versus the people who thought the audience were the people in the room. And Trump ate his spinach for the first 25 minutes and did what the professionals wanted him to do. And then he was like, now it's time for dessert. I'm going to talk to the people in the room and do my rally.

WALLACE: There was a Trump campaign tried to cast a wider net at the convention featuring a number of black and Hispanic speakers, and a major speech at a Republican convention by the head of the teamsters union. Jonah, do you think Trump won -- you talk about this between the audience and the hall and the TV audience of millions of people. Do you think he attracted new voters, or the convention attracted new voters, or just energized the Trump base?

GOLDBERG: Well, I don't think any huge number of people were watching the convention on traditional television. The convention --

WALLACE: Well, 18, 20 million people.

GOLDBERG: A lot of them like Trump. I mean a lot of persuadables I don't think were watching. What I think they generated an enormous amount of content for was to cut up the teamsters' speech, to cut up the Hulk Hogan thing. That's going to go out on TikTok and YouTube and all these places, and those images are going to do a lot of work from him.

Also, the first 25 minutes of his speech, that's the stuff most local news channels are covering. They're not covering the crazy rally stuff. So they got the soundbites out of this I think they needed.

WALLACE: Kara, from has been preparing for months to run against Joe Biden. How do you think the race changes if Biden does in the next few days drop out and he suddenly got, whether it's Harris or TBA, TBD, a whole new opponent?

SWISHER: Well, I think it probably unsettle him. We'll see what happens. I think he's more used to Harris. He has all his different lines about Harris. I think if it's someone like Newsom, I think it will disturb him because he's such a lookist, and Gavin looks better than him, I'm sorry to tell you. But I think he gets rattled by physicality. And so we'll see if that happens, and I think he can get very easily rattled by someone like that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Can I --

GOLDBERG: He can rattled by women, too.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Women, this is what I was about to say. We're not talking about the gender issue. I mean, if you look at what that entire convention was about, they were not talking about abortion. They were trying to soft pedal their positions. And the fact of the matter is, is that this is in many ways an anti-woman, in the way that it's viewed, movement that Donald Trump has. It appeals to men. It tries to build up this idea of retrograde masculinity. And so by having a woman at the head of the ticket, in fact, I don't think it should be Josh Shapiro. It should be maybe a Gretchen Whitmer and have the ticket be all women, because I think at this point, if the Democrats want to do something, they should try and show that they are doing something --

WALLACE: I just want to bring one other element into this, Reihan. The generational issue. Even if it's Harris, who is in her late 50s, or some of these other people who are considerably younger than that, wouldn't that be an effective way to run against Trump, and to a certain degree against Biden, to say, you know, it's a whole new game. It's a new, new generation. We're going to forget about the boomers and their fights. And let's talk about the future, and perhaps portray Donald Trump and his issues and his concerns and his history as old news?

[10:25:00] SALAM: The most dangerous opponent for Donald Trump would be Governor Josh Shapiro for this reason -- when he spoke about that firefighter Corey Comperatore who died at that Trump rally, he spoke about him warmly as a human being, as a citizen, as a great dad in a way that felt very authentic. I think it would be really hard to find another prominent Democrat in national politics who could really sell that after having really worked the progressive base for a long time in the Trump era. And I think that that's why Shapiro is someone who really represents a threat to Donald Trump.

WALLACE: We'll put you on the Shapiro campaign committee.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I see that.

SALAM: -- disagreements.

WALLACE: Up next, x marks the spot on a controversial new state law which sets schools and parents against each other.

Plus, hitting the sack, but where? We'll discuss the growing trend among married couples.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:28]

WALLACE: There's a new LGBTQ rights law in California that's causing quite a stir. This week, Governor Gavin Newsom signed a first in the nation bill that says schools can't notify parents if a child changes their gender identity or tell parents up their child's sexual orientation is. Conservatives say the law violates parental rights, but LGBTQ groups praised the decision, saying it protects kids with unsupportive families.

Here's a taste of the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WARD, (D) CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY MEMBER: Some, unfortunately, continue to face rejection and are exposed to serious harm if prematurely forced to reveal their identity.

JIM PATTERSON, (R) CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY MEMBER: The state does not own our children. They have no business getting between parents and children, especially on something as potentially damaging as this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Now, one school district has already sued Governor Newsom over the law, and Elon Musk called it the final straw and vowed to move the headquarters of two of his companies, X and SpaceX, from California to Texas. Reihan, should parental notification be banned in schools on these issues?

SALAM: I think this is a really, really bad decision on many levels. First on the substance, I think that this doesn't reflect the best evidence we have about so-called social transition. I think this is something where it really is important to get the parents involved.

But I also think, separately from that, even if you might disagree with that, subsidiarity makes sense here. Let's let schools decide. Let's let communities and school districts work this out on their own terms in a way that makes sense to all of those stakeholders, rather than have state-level preemption about something where there's lot of uncertainty and a lot of risk for families that could be torn apart by this.

WALLACE: But what you're talking about is part of what caused this law to be passed. There was a push for the law after more than a dozen school boards in California required schools to notify parents if students asked to use a different name or a pronoun.

SWISHER: That is correct. Reihan, I'm sorry, I'm going to stop you --

SALAM: Please.

SWISHER: -- because this happened to me. And this is something schools should stay out of relationships between parents and their children, especially on these issues. You cannot force a teacher to have to intervene in a family issue. He was trying to keep government out of schools, not --

SALAM: That's exactly the opposite of what this law requires.

SWISHER: No, because it's -- no, it doesn't.

SALAM: This is great spin for Governor Newsom.

SWISHER: No, it's not great spin for Newsom. It doesn't force teachers to insert themselves in family discussions.

And let me say, for most people who are gay and lesbian and especially, it is very difficult because you have your parents against you at the same time. And in some of these families, it's very dangerous for these kids. Schools should stay out of this.

SALAM: I agree that the state should stay out of this decision. Please, Chris.

WALLACE: But the state is in the decision if it's banning parents. That's a state decision.

SALAM: Well, look, I think that what you want to do is be very careful about creating the presumption that you were necessarily an abusive parent. If you have concerns about kids were very impressionable, kids who are very vulnerable in a lot of cases, when you have folks who are not clinicians, these are not people who are trained and educated in how to handle --

WALLACE: I want to look at another part of this issue, and it almost flips it on is head. Twenty-five states now have laws that bar transgender minors under 18 from having gender affirming care such as puberty blockers or hormones, or in rare cases, surgery, even with their parents' consent. Jonah, should parental rights be limited in this area?

GOLDBERG: This is -- I'm much more with Reihan on the school stuff. But on this stuff, I think having parents, parental involvement about surgical questions for their kids is legitimate. I don't think the science is where a lot of people on the trans rights universe say it is. Puberty blocker stuff has real dramatic consequences. And there's a lot of social contagion stuff involved in a lot of this that you don't want to make permanent life-changing surgical alterations to people, make it impossible for them to have kids, unless you really understand what's going on. And that's going to have to be sort of on a case by case basis.

WALLACE: Let me bring Lulu in.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But this is this is what I love about hearing the two sides of this debate from you, is that on the one hand, you don't want the state to be involved when it has to do with kids coming out and having them be protected.

[10:35:05]

And on the other hand, no, actually, we're going to have the state legislate that it is it is not right for parents supporting their children in this journey. And so you can't -- and I think what is so disingenuous about this debate is that you can't have it both ways. You can't say, on the one hand you don't want parents involved, and on the other hand, you do on parents involved.

GOLDBERG: I just disagree with that. First of all, I said it's complicated and I didn't want to freeze parents completely out of this. Parents should be involved in having a say-so about the surgical procedures for their kids. At the same time, one can draw distinctions between lifechanging, permanent surgical operations, right? If parents want to -- I know it's a bad analogy, but if a kid wanted to have his arm cut off, the state, we would all agree the state should intervene.

SWISHER: This isn't that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: This isn't that.

GOLDBERG: I said it's a bad analogy, but the point --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Then why make it?

SWISHER: Why make it? The government should stay out of these decisions.

SALAM: This is not the government staying --

GOLDBERG: Not if the science isn't where the government --

SWISHER: And it is unclear. And it is 100 percent unclear.

SALAM: I'll just say that I don't think the evidence is there, and I think that it actually is entirely reasonable for states to say that we're going to protect children from dangerous, irreversible procedures.

SWISHER: When the proof is there. But the proof is unclear.

SALAM: But what I was saying in the case of California is that, look, you know, short of having this preemption which you are banning communities from working this out, I would object to that. But I actually do think the 25 states that are stepping in the protect kids --

WALLACE: I just want to talk about one other aspect to this because we did talk about it in the introduction. Elon Musk, who says the California parental notification ban in schools is the final straw, pushing him to move some of his headquarters to Texas. Musk posted this, "The goal of this diabolical law is to break the parent-child relationship and put the state in charge of your children."

Kara, as you well know Musk has a trans daughter, and he blames the progressive school that she went to for the breakdown of their relationship. What do you make of that and this whole question of whether or not schools should be keeping information or being forced to give information?

SWISHER: I think what he's saying is absolutely nonsensical. It has to do with taxes for Elon Musk. He wants to have a tax situation. He tends to do these things. He does have, from people close to him, he's quite enraged about his trans daughter. I think it's terrible how he's behaving and the things he says, because he says a lot of anti-trans things on top of this. And then it gets in this self-righteous mode, which I think is nonsensical. I think Elon Musk does what's good for Elon Musk, and everything else --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What we're seeing, this is a tension here. These are children who are indeed vulnerable, and we know from statistics and everything that children who are vulnerable, who are transgender, are often excluded from their family. They're often people who are on the streets are very vulnerable.

SALAM: There are many other --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And so, and so this is a question.

WALLACE: OK, we're not going to settle this today, and we're not going to settle this here.

But speaking of laws, why did the mayor of Paris do something that's been illegal there for a century?

Plus, you know the old saying -- I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream. But which flavor? The nation's top pick, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:00]

WALLACE: Once again, it's time to get our group's yea or nay on some big talkers. Up first, using the "D" word to catch some z's. We're talking about a growing trend, especially among millennial couples, called sleep divorce, where partners sleep in separate rooms to get a better nights rest. The American Academy of Sleep Medicine says 35 percent of Americans now sleep in another room sometimes are always. And there are benefits, including improved sleep quality and overall health, reduced nighttime disturbances from things like snoring, and potential for a better mood and function during the day. Kara, are you yea or nay on sleep divorcing your spouse?

SWISHER: I'm going to get a big D, but I do like sleeping alone. I sometimes go in the other room and go to sleep, largely because the toddler comes in and starts kicking me. But I do like sleeping alone.

WALLACE: So when you leave your wife with the toddler and you go sleep by yourself.

SWISHER: That's correct. That is correct.

WALLACE: Rather than taking the toddler so that you can let your wife sleep by herself?

SWISHER: I don't know what to tell you. I -- this is the way. This is the situation. She's a saint.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: We already knew that.

Jonah, do the Goldbergs ever sleep in separate rooms?

GOLDBERG: So we have a problem. I'm a snore. I have a superpower. I can sleep on command. And my wife, if she gets woken up, she cannot get back to sleep. And so we will often sleep separately. I don't think it's ideal in the platonic realm of ideals. I think couples should sleep together. But in reality, it can't always be that way.

WALLACE: This is turning out to be a real thing. It's interesting.

All right, next, proving the Paris Olympics are ready by doing something that's been illegal for more than a century. The mayor of Paris this week swam in the Seine River, trying to show the water is pollution-free and ready to host some swimming events when the summer games kick off next week. The city has invested $1.5 billion to improve water quality, but many experts say it's still not safe, and some Olympic athletes are worried.

[10:45:07]

Lulu, is swimming -- I'm very proud of this. Is swimming in the Seine insane?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: OK, first, let me just acknowledge that beautiful pun. And I covered many Olympics, and the only good thing about the Olympics -- I'm not an Olympics fan because I've covered it, covered Rio, bankrupted the city, is that it causes a lot of money to go flow into the coffers of the city to enact things like this. And so I am a big yay on this, because even if it's not perfect, it's much better than it was. And that's going to have long term benefits for the inhabitants of Paris.

WALLACE: Reihan, quickly here, because I want to get to our third story. They're going to hold the triathlon part of it there in the river, the marathon swim. But the problem is that when it rains, the e coli level rises. So are you diving in or not?

SALAM: I'm sorry, but in 2028, it's going to be in sunny Los Angeles, the beautiful, wide-open Pacific, or in a beautiful chlorinated pool. I say wait until 2028 to get your swimming fix.

WALLACE: Finally, after a week of record heat in parts of the country, we want to end our "Yea or Nay" in a cool way. Tomorrow is national ice cream day, which gives us an excuse to discuss what is the best flavor. And believe it or not, there's a group that tracks this. The nation's top pick is vanilla, which comes in first in 19 states. Chocolate is a close second. My favorite, chocolate chip, is not tops in any state, but mint chocolate chip is in four. So gang, what's your favorite flavor, and how do you like to enjoy it? Lulu?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Pistachio, because it reminds me of Italy like gelato, and in a cup because I like it with fudge and nuts.

WALLACE: Jonah?

GOLDBERG: I have been a coffee ice cream guy since I was a little kid, and I've never been shaken off of it. I prefer it on a cone because I eat it fast enough that I don't get my hands dirty.

WALLACE: Kara?

SWISHER: The classic. I'm a classic gal, and I have a classic ice cream. The ice cream sandwich, best thing ever.

WALLACE: Reihan?

SALAM: I'm proud to say that my wife is an accomplished scooper who as a teenager worked for many years at Graeter's Ice Cream in Louisville, Kentucky, and she turned me on to the delicious, delicious bourbon brown butter pecan, in a cone.

WALLACE: Of course, as John McLaughlin would say, wrong. The best is chocolate chip in a cup.

The panel is back with their takes on hot stories or what will be in the news before it's news. They're all eating it. Right after the break.

SALAM: This is really good.

WALLACE: This is the best part of the show.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:27] WALLACE: It's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for. So as we enjoy our ice cream, Lulu, hit me with your best shot.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: OK, I'll put down my ice cream. My best shot is another nod to the convention. One of the things that really struck me as an iconic moment was, of course, the rap song that was played there. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know who we voting for. We voting Donald Trump baby. America needs saving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, that is Forgiato Blow and Amber Rose, the former progressive feminist who is now a Trump supporter. And that was "Trump, Trump, Baby." And if you if you can name that tune, it is based on "Ice, Ice, Baby" from that iconic player Vanilla Ice.

WALLACE: Which is part of the ice cream.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Which is part of the ice cream.

WALLACE: OK, Reihan, Bibi Netanyahu, Israeli prime minister, is going to be in town this week. You say he could have some impact on domestic American politics.

SALAM: I think he can. This is going to be a really big test for Democrats right now, because over 200 congressional staffers have said they are going to protest his address before Congress. Now, if Democrats can keep this under wraps, that's going to be a big part of them convincing folks that they are not incredibly divided and incredibly radical on a foreign policy issue that matters to a lot of Americans and a lot of swing voters.

WALLACE: Kara, best shot.

SWISHER: I was going to talk about all the tech bros that are giving money to Trump, but I think I'm going to focus on Kamala Harris here because she has a lot of ties among tech people, rich tech billionaires. And I think she, and also in Hollywood. So I think one of the things that will be important for her is show me the money. She has an ability to raise vast sums of money from them.

WALLACE: And Jonah, you have another of your fearless protections as you sit there ice cream cone in hand.

GOLDBERG: That's right. So back to the conventions. There was a lot of chatter, not in front of cameras, about how J.D. Vance's speech was somewhat lackluster. Not a lot of cadence, not a lot of charisma. And it was a sign for some people that this guy maybe doesn't have the experience in the national limelight that some might have hoped. And this coronation that he's the future of MAGA, he's the shoe in for 2028, all that kind of stuff, I think that's going to get a pretty serious reappraisal over the next couple of months as people see him campaign and have to learn on the job a bit.

[10:55:00]

WALLACE: Why? What's -- what are they going to find out about them?

GOLDBERG: Well, look, he's only won one political race, and he won it in a state where the Republican governor of Ohio overperformed him by like 20 points, and were Trump overperformed him as well. He doesn't have natural chops as a politician. You don't want to -- this is only the second race he's ever done 18 months later or something like that. And I just think we're going to see some stumbles and him explaining his differences with Donald Trump, his conversion story, talking to the mainstream media in a way that actually converts voters. He just doesn't have a lot of experience talking to audiences that don't already agree with him.

WALLACE: Well, that's part of the front of a presidential campaign, isn't it? And I bet he knows that to spell "potato" properly, as a graduate of Yale Law School.

Gang, thank you all for being here. I'm still enjoying my chocolate chip --

SWISHER: I'm going to take it.

WALLACE: Keep your hands off it, Kara. And thank you for spending part of your day with us. He's just spilled some. We'll see you right back here next week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)