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The Chris Wallace Show

Presidential Race Remains Close after Polls Show Kamala Harris Won Recent Presidential Debate with Donald Trump; Donald Trump Says He Will Not Debate Kamala Harris Again; House Speaker Mike Johnson Proposes Voter I.D. Law for Federal Elections as Part of Government Funding Bill; NFL Player Tyreek Hill Calls for Firing of Miami Police Officer that Dragged Him from His Car and Handcuffed Him at Traffic Stop; Campbell Soup Company Announces It Will Drop "Soup" From Company Name; Apple Announces New iPhone Powered by Artificial Intelligence; Beyonce Not Nominated for Any Country Music Awards for Her Country Album. Aired 10-11a ET.

Aired September 14, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:43]

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and welcome. It's time to break down the big stories with some smart people.

Today, we're asking, as Kamala Harris pushes for another debate and Donald Trump says no, is he smart to stay away from a second face-to- face showdown?

Then, poison pill, Republicans pushing to fund the government with one major addition that Democrats say is a solution in search of a problem.

And no soup for you -- the big change coming to a 155-year-old canned classic.

The panel is here and ready to go, so sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.

Up first, it's on. Voting is officially underway in the election with the first absentee ballots already mailed out in Alabama, and early voting is set to begin in several other states in the next few days. Now, with their big debate behind them, both candidates are in the next phase of the campaign, looking for new ways to win voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He has, quote, "concepts" of a plan.

WALLACE: Kamala Harris mocking Donald Trump's lack of specifics on replacing Obamacare as she looks to build on her debate momentum.

HARRIS: A 12 or 13-year-old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term, they don't want that. WALLACE: Seizing on key exchanges and turning them into campaign ads.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're a nation that's in serious decline.

WALLACE: As she and Trump hit the key battleground states.

TRUMP: We had a monumental victory over comrade Kamala Harris in the presidential --

(CHEERING)

WALLACE: The latest poll shows Harris as the debate's clear winner, but little movement in the horse race since last month's Democratic convention.

TRUMP: Look at this crowd. We've never seen the enthusiasm.

(CHEERING)

WALLACE: Harris recognizing there's more work to do, calling for another face-off.

HARRIS: I believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate.

WALLACE: But Trump, for now, unwilling to give Harris another platform to reach millions of voters.

TRUMP: Because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WALLACE: Here with me today, Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and "National Review" contributing editor, "New York Times" journalist and "The Interview" podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, Jim Geraghty, contributing writer at "The Washington Post" and "National Review" senior political correspondent, and Nia-Malika Henderson, politics and policy columnist at "Bloomberg". Welcome back everyone.

Jim, where does this race stand now post-debate?

JIM GERAGHTY, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, anyway, you slice it, Harris went out and did exactly what she wanted to do. The national polls show a nice little pop, probably around four or five percentage point lead. What would worry me if I were on her campaign is that Michigan has had a couple of polls in the last couple of days. Trump by one, tie, her by one. The swing states still look pretty close, and you very rarely can find a poll that has one candidate or the other outside of the margin of error.

The Walz pick seemed to be popular. Everybody raved about the Democratic convention. She did great -- all this stuff is going right for her, but you're not seeing it generate a significant lead in the swing states. And so I think they'll be sweating all the way to election night. WALLACE: Nia, there are some debates that shift the momentum of a campaign, like the first Kennedy-Nixon debate in 1960, and some that don't, like all three Clinton-Trump debates back in 2016. Where do you think those race stands right now, post-debate?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, OPINION COLUMNIST, "BLOOMBERG": Yes, listen, I think it's a dead heat. It's going to come down to these six states. She's got to figure out what the easiest path to victory is. She has more paths than Joe Biden did, but it's still incredibly tight. It's a --

WALLACE: Wait, explain that to me. If, according to those CNN instant poll, she won 63 percent to 37, and all the other polls were roughly the same, why hasn't moved the needle?

HENDERSON: I don't think debates typically move the needle, right? You mentioned the Kennedy-Nixon debate, that obviously did. The debate we saw between Biden and Trump, obviously upended this entire race.

[10:05:00]

But this is the way it usually works with debates. They sort of lock in what's already in place, and what was already in place was a very close race. And they're going to try over these next, what do we have, seven weeks, eight weeks or so --

WALLACE: Seven weeks.

HENDERSON: -- to go in places. Like, for instance, Kamala Harris is in some of these rural places in Georgia and Pennsylvania to see if she can eat into some of the margins among Trump voters in those states.

WALLACE: Lulu, if this race is still up for grabs, what do Trump and Harris each need to do in the next seven plus weeks till Election Day?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: Well, I think we need to see less of Trump, because the more people see of Trump, the less they seem to like him, the more incendiary things he says, and the more people are focused on his biggest liability now, which is his age.

What has happened as the GOP and the Democrats have kind of flipped. Before the Democrats had the problem with their candidate at the top of the ticket being unable to prosecute the case. And now it's the GOP that has a problem with their candidate being unable to prosecute the case.

WALLACE: So he should go to the basement like Biden --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think we need to be seeing a little bit less of him, if indeed they really -- because don't forget, when people sort of have the hazy, happy memory of Trump and not the chaotic Trump, the Trump that says things that have no basis in reality, talking about dogs -- eating dogs rather, people seem to like it better.

WALLACE: And what about Harris?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So what Harris needs to do, I think, is people need to see her more, and in unscripted ways. She needs to be doing more press conferences. She needs to just have a more casual interaction with a wider variety of people.

HENDERSON: Does Oprah count?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oprah count. If they're trying to create events, that's what they're going to be doing now, that's the big tactic, having Oprah, trying to see if there are big splashy friends with Beyonce and others --

WALLACE: Let me pick up on this, because CNN is reporting that the Harris campaign is more focused on creating what they call moments than rolling out detailed policy. She has, as mentioned, an online conversation with Oprah next week, and they dream of a campaign concert with Taylor Swift.

Reihan, first of all, do you think that's what Harris needs to do -- more moments, less policy? And what about Trump?

REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW": I do think that Harris is being incredibly disciplined and careful. She is following a script. Her ad campaigns and what have you, these are doing exactly what Democratic political experts are advising her to do. Biden was a loose cannon. Trump is very much a loose cannon. But she has been sticking to the script.

WALLACE: Do you think that is the right script, though? Because a lot of people I hear say, I want to know more specifics of what she's going to do for the economy, what she's going to do on immigration.

SALAM: Well, the problem is that her agenda is to the left of most of the electorate, and I think getting more specific about that could represent a risk. It would be smart of her to try to make a more explicit and clear break with the Biden presidency, but she's very conspicuously not done that in a variety of ways.

Trump in contrast, look, during the debate Kamala Harris spent 70 percent of her time attacking Trump. Trump spent less than 30 percent of his time attacking Harris. Harris is acting like an underdog. Trump is not acting like an underdog. And what Trump needs to do is zero-in, not on 200 messages, not on every last thing someone says and then counterpunching. He needs to focus on his script and attack the incumbent administration and remind people that he is not the incumbent who is responsible for a very foul mood of the American public right now. She's in office.

WALLACE: And then there is the question of another debate, and at least this week Trump was making it clear he's not interested.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When a prize fighter loses the fight, you've seen a lot of fights, right? The first words out of that fighter's mouth is I want to rematch. I want to rematch. And that's what she said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Nia, is Trump smart to say no more debates?

HENDERSON: Yes, absolutely, because he was terrible. I mean, she emasculated him. She had him on the ropes for 90 minutes. I mean, some of it was attacks, some of it was just triggering him with saying that his crowd sizes weren't so big and that people were leaving lean in the middle of the rallies. And so no, I think he is smart to stay away from this because he doesn't want a really good moment for Harris in the closing weeks of this campaign in the way that she's had this week with this really, really stellar debate performance against him.

WALLACE: Jim, do you agree that Trump should stay away from another debate and --

GERAGHTY: No. To paraphrase "Ghostbusters." If you have the opportunity to speak before 60 million television viewers, probably another 7 million on streaming, you say yes. You take every opportunity you have to get your message out. You try preparing next time. You try having two or three bullet points you want to --

[10:10:00]

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But he can't. He can't prepare. He is incapable at the moment because of his age to actually prosecute the case. And so I think it's a terrible idea for him to do around --

GERAGHTY: The basement campaign, particularly when you're neck-and- neck isn't going to do you any good. I guess the idea is people are going to forget the traits about Trump that they don't like between now and Election Day. The only way to go out there is to go out, make the argument.

WALLACE: No, no, I wasn't -- but let me just, let me ask you this. What do you think are the chances -- he's saying no, no more debates. What do you think are the chances he changes his mind and sometime in October ends up sharing a stage with her?

GERAGHTY: As we all know, every Trump decision is written on an Etch A Sketch, and at any given moment it can be shaken very vigorously and you can end up with a different one. So my guess is if the advisers look at him and say, look, you did not do yourself any good. You can go out there, and if you bother to remember three or four points on every topic, you can actually move the ball in the right direction, then he should do it. I think he walks around believing he is going to win by a landslide and he doesn't have to do anything else.

SALAM: Hillary Clinton dominated her first debate with Donald Trump in 2016. This was a pretty solid, strong performance by Kamala Harris. It was not better than Hillary Clinton's performance in that first debate. And then Donald Trump fared better in the second and third debates. I think that Trump should give it another shot.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's eight years ago, though, eight years ago. He is a very different -- he's a different candidate.

WALLACE: Guess what, he ain't listening to any of us.

Over on Capitol Hill, it's the same old story, the government is running out of money. Congress is fighting over how to fund it. But this time a new twist that could have you digging for your birth certificate.

Then police versus player, the traffic stop with a football superstar that got us debating the limits of second-guessing cops.

And later, saddle up. We're discussing Beyonce's big snub and what's really behind it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:38]

WALLACE: Stop me if you've heard this before -- Congress is once again struggling to keep the government open. Speaker Mike Johnson has till September 30th to pass a funding bill and send it to the Senate or the government will run out of money. But this time the fight in the house isn't just over money, but also voter registration. GOP leaders want a six-month funding deal linked to the SAVE act, which would require proof you're a citizen to register to vote in federal elections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON, (R-LA) HOUSE SPEAKER: I want any member of Congress in either party to explain to the American people why we should not ensure that only U.S. citizens are voting in U.S. elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: But some Republicans rejected Johnson's plan, so this week he was forced to cancel a scheduled vote. Democrats say they'll only support a clean funding deal without the proof of citizenship requirement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES, (D-NY) HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: It's important to make clear that the Constitution already requires citizenship in order to be able to participate in our elections. That's federal law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: We'll get to the citizenship issue in a minute. First, the politics of this. We're just over seven weeks from an election. Jim, if Speaker Johnson can't get the House to pass something to fund the government by September 30th, who would a government shutdown hurt more, Republicans or Democrats?

GERAGHTY: Republicans. It always does damage to both parties, but almost every time Republicans get the short end of the stick. Every member of the House who is not retiring is up for reelection. Do you think they want to spend the fall in Washington instead of being back in their districts, going out and campaigning nonstop? It's going to be tiresome, a rerun, Republicans never do this. But my fear is that someone will put it in Trump's head, Laura Loomer or somebody. And the idea that this is how you win, or this is how you set up the excuse for if you lose. Oh, well, we didn't have the proof of citizenship requirement. That's why all, that's why all the Haitian dogs and cats registered to vote and they ended up voting --

WALLACE: Well, I want to bring up the aforementioned former president. Not only our House Republicans on the line, so is Donald Trump, who says if there is no measure barring non-citizens from voting, the GOP should shut the government down. Nia, which party has more to lose here?

HENDERSON: Listen, I think it's Republicans. They are obviously, some segment of them, obsessed with this idea that's really conspiracy theory that there are all of these illegal immigrants, as they would call them, undocumented folks who are flooding to the polls and favoring Democrats. That is not happening. There's no evidence of that. But this is obviously a play, if you're Mike Johnson, for this sort of Trump stamp of approval. It will make Republicans look terrible if in the waning days of this election they are in Washington fighting over whether or not they should keep the government --

WALLACE: And the government, or at least partially, shut down?

HENDERSON: Yes. I mean, this this would not be a good thing. It would make them look like the party that is dysfunctional rather than the party who should be put in charge of the government.

WALLACE: All right, well, let's get to those issue that seems to be so important to Republicans and so important to Donald Trump. Lulu, should voters have to show proof that they're U.S. citizens?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So let's talk about what's actually in the SAVE Act.

[10:20:01]

They are putting this here two months before a federal election and saying, we're going to pass this law, and right before this election, we are going to change the way that things are done, really put this very high bar for people to go and register to vote, to either get a birth certificate or to show their Social Security card. Let's say they have lost their birth certificate, like I have. So you now have to go and knock on the door of the records department to wait and come and get it.

I mean, if you want to roll this out, and this has been something that Republicans have been dreaming about forever, do it with some time. Say, let's do this for the next election. The fact that they're doing this two months out of the election and attaching it to this, it's clearly a poison pill. This isn't about securing our elections. It's about actually trying to gum up the works and being used as --

WALLACE: And suppress votes?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And suppress votes. And it's being used as a negotiating tactic.

WALLACE: In the last 20 years, the conservative Heritage Foundation found only 85 cases involving allegations of non-citizens voting in federal elections, 85 cases among hundreds of millions of votes cast. Reihan, is this push for the SAVE Act a solution in search of a problem?

SALAM: Well, it's important to ground this in public opinion, how to voters actually feel about it. And if you look at the survey data, this year there's a survey from the Pew Research Center which found that 81 percent of Americans support voter I.D. requirements. That includes a pretty significant majority of Democrats. That reflects a majority of voters of all races and ethnicities. So there is a broad consensus that some kind of guardrails should be in place. This is something we see in every other advanced market democracy other than the United States.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But Reihan, the reason that we see that in every other, and I have been in other countries. I'm a foreign correspondent. I've covered other elections there. The reason you have that is because actually at birth you are given a national I.D. This is not a country with that system because it is a federal system. And so it's given up to the states. So to now, all of a sudden, have the federal government getting involved in the election system when it has been given to the states is a little bit problematic.

SALAM: It's not, in fact, the case, that only countries with a formal national I.D. system have voter I.D. requirements in place. But leaving that aside, you're going to have to do a job of convincing a lot of folks, as people have tried to do for many years, out of there pretty strong conviction that there should be some basic guardrails around voting --

WALLACE: Reihan, what about the argument that what this is really about is voter suppression, that poorer folks, people with less resources may have a harder time proving their citizenship than people who have passports or --

SALAM: To the extent we have empirical evidence on this, it does seem as though the impact has been negligible. There have been no serious studies that have found a major --

WALLACE: It's also negligible that there are non-citizens voting.

SALAM: Well, it's true that there hasn't been a ton of thoughtful, serious, sustained investigation of this. I don't think that we can necessarily prove that there aren't concerns about the legitimacy and, particularly, look during the Biden years, we've had 10 million new folks enter the country, 6.5 million of whom are on authorized. And also you have a number of jurisdictions that are introducing non- citizen voting, including my hometown of New York City. That creates some confusion, that creates some uncertainty. The idea that there should be some guardrails seems reasonable and credible. GARCIA-NAVARRO: Reihan, it's a problem -- it's sort of like, it's

looking for a problem that doesn't exist. And so -- and also what it's doing is creating this fear --

SALAM: Four out of five --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's creating this fear about, around the elections, it's questioning the integrity of the election. It's really feeding into this entire narrative that Donald Trump wants to feed, which is that this election isn't secure. And if he loses, there's a problem.

SALAM: Donald Trump is not supported by 81 percent of Americans. This provision is supported by a large majority.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: He keeps on saying that there are all these people flooding the border who and Democrats want them to vote and that this is, you know --

SALAM: A lot of Harris voters feel that this is something that's legitimate. And I think we ought to respect those Harris voters and Biden voters and many other voters besides who think --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You think they should be doing it, now, though? You think that this SAVE Act should be done right now, two months before an election?

SALAM: I think it's understandable that folks think that this is urgent and something that ought to be put in place.

WALLACE: Well, one of the other questions is the fact that this could have an impact on the economy just as inflation is under control, and -- or certainly getting better, under three percent, and the Fed is likely to cut rates. And the government shutdown would cost billions of dollars.

Speaking of which, the economy may soon get a boost thanks to some big changes to the most popular phone in America, and the panel's take is not artificial.

But first, traffic stop fallout, how the interaction between police and one of the NFL's biggest names is sparking a nationwide debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:29:38]

WALLACE: Many of you have seen the video, police in south Florida pulling over an NFL superstar just outside the stadium before a game, then yanking him from his car and handcuffing him. But now viral video reigniting a larger discussion about driving while black.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TYREEK HILL, NFL PLAYER: I'm not the only one that goes to that.

[10:30:00] You don't hear about it because not everybody has the same resources as Tyreek Hill.

WALLACE: Miami Dolphins wide receiver Tyreek Hill calling out the cops in the now infamous traffic stop, but admitting his own missteps.

HILL: I could have been better. I could have let down my window.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your window down.

WALLACE: Bodycam video shows how the incident escalated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your window down or I'm going to get you out of the car.

WALLACE: Hill refused, and Miami-Dade police pulled him out of the car and cuffed him on the ground.

It's a scene that's become all too familiar, traffic stops turning violent and sometimes deadly, like in Memphis where officers are now on trial for charges related to the death of Tyre Nichols. Back in Miami, police are conducting an internal investigation. But Hill has one message about the officer involved there.

HILL: Gone, gone. He's got to go, man.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WALLACE: Lulu, should any of the officers in the Tyreek Hill incident be fired?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think there needs to be an investigation.

WALLACE: Well, there is.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, and I would await the results of that investigation. I obviously, I'm not going to make a determination about what should happen to police officers in this case. But I think what is so important about this particular case is that, actually, most conflicts between the police and the public happen at traffic stops. This is the place where police and the general public really brush up against each other. And we've seen that the majority of people who actually end up either arrested or in some kind of problem are either blacks or Latinos.

And so you have this issue that happens over and over and over again that's been highlighted now by Tyreek Hill and what happened to him in Miami, my hometown. And so I do think it's worth really thinking about and trying to explore how that kind of situation could be deescalated.

WALLACE: Reihan, as we saw in the piece, Hill admits he could have been better, he could have been more cooperative when the police stopped him. But on the other hand, does that justify what we saw in the video, pulling him out of the car, putting him down on the ground, and handcuffing him behind his back? And how do you answer the question, should any officers be fired? SALAM: This was an extremely difficult, tense encounter. I really

feel for those police officers in this situation when you have someone who has tinted windows that's already something that creates some serious risks. They don't know exactly what's going on when you're rolling your window back up again in defiance of direct orders. So I think that this is a really dangerous, difficult job, and I think that we really need to underscore something very, very important.

What happened to Tyre Nichols was an outrage. It was absolutely an outrage. In the case of Tyreek Hill, you're dealing with someone who is under a criminal investigation for breaking the arm of his three- year-old son, someone who has been involved in numerous domestic violence incidents --

WALLACE: Whoa, whoa, wait. It's not like they had they had run this guy's record.

SALAM: That's right, but this is someone who created a very dangerous and tense situation. And I think what we need to keep in mind is this -- people who are rich and own expensive vehicles are more likely to violate traffic laws. They're more likely to be defiant in encounters with law enforcement because they're more likely to feel entitled. And I think that this is what we really should be thinking about. There is a huge problem with excessive force against black man in particular. That is true. That's documented. That's a problem. This was a case of someone who again and again has been accused of getting it to violent encounters with vulnerable and weak people, and now he wants --

WALLACE: Again, we're talking about a specific traffic stop. It's not like -- we don't know what the record of the police are. We don't -- it has nothing to do with that. This was what happened in that incident. They certainly didn't know -- they didn't know who was in the car, let alone what --

SALAM: What I'm talking about is what happened after the fact, what I'm talking about is someone who then acknowledged his wrongdoing in this case, and is still saying that this guy ought to be fired. If we could fire civil servants that easily --

WALLACE: Let's get to the bigger question, which is a Department of Justice report in 2022 found that in traffic stops, black drivers are more likely to experience the threat or use of force. Jim, let me ask you about this. I mean, ever since the George Floyd murder by police, there have been calls for nationwide reform of policing, which haven't gone far. It's been locked up in Congress. Do we need it?

GERAGHTY: Yes, looking at that videotape, he's in about aa fancy a sports car as you're ever going to see.

WALLACE: Right.

GERAGHTY: He's a young, athletic looking African American man driving towards the Miami Dolphins stadium --

WALLACE: In broad daylight.

GERAGHTY: In broad daylight on the day of the home opener of the Miami Dolphins.

[10:35:02]

Could none of these cops put any -- connect any of these dots and figure out what was likely going on here? And it just feels like every step of that got more tense and more heated and more escalated. I'm with Lulu. Look, do the full report, dot all the i's, cross all the t's. But this certainly looks like cops who overreacted to a guy who, look, unsurprising, people are not always in a great mood when a cop pulls them over. I think you have to kind of recognize that the typical citizen is not going to always be yes, sir, no, sir, absolutely as cooperative as possible. And that doesn't automatically --

HENDERSON: I think the typical citizen probably would have been more cooperative, a citizen in a less fancy car who wasn't on his way to a game. I mean, the cop is asking him, quite politely, to roll down his window, which is typically what happens --

WALLACE: So what are you saying? Are you saying --

HENDERSON: I sort of agree with Reihan here, that he acted in a very entitled way, in a very --

WALLACE: There's no question. He admitted that.

HENDERSON: -- arrogant way. And he's sort of escalated. He was in defiance of a very simple command by a police officer, right? Roll down your window, hand me your driver's license. This was a simple traffic stop.

Listen, I think there are lessons on both sides. He acted incorrectly, and the officers probably did overreact to him. But listen, they want to go home to their wives and kids and husbands --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So let's drag him out of the car? I mean, there's especially, and then there's sort of something --

HENDERSON: I think there's part of that video that you can look at, and his window is up, and he is defying a request to roll it down. You don't know what's on on the other side of that tinted window.

WALLACE: No, to your point and Reihan's, it's awfully easy to second guess police. But the fact is that they're often in very difficult situations, and we look at this video in the comfort of our home knowing nothing bad happened and the guy didn't do anything. But I do wonder about the limits of second guessing police. I mean, there are some cases that are clearly, George Floyd was, people have their knees on his neck.

HENDERSON: I think this is separate from that, right? Because I think if you look at what's happening, Tyreek Hill, who is a volatile guy. They might not have known that at that point, but he is acting in a very sort of suspicious way. Like, why don't you roll down your window and just comply with this and get off to the game?

WALLACE: Jim, final thought?

GERAGHTY: Should non-compliance get you on the ground in handcuffs with your face pressed against asphalt? What should the consequences for not obeying a police order be? It seems pretty harsh right then and there.

SALAM: They need to figure out a way to be safe. They are trained in certain ways to ensure that situation does not escalate out-of- control.

GERAGHTY: What threat did Tyreek Hill represent?

HENDERSON: They didn't know. That's the point, they don't know at that point, right? Listen, did they act probably overboard? Maybe. But I do think he was the catalyst for that.

WALLACE: You know what, we're going to need to switch some chairs here. This is getting very confusing, but interesting.

Some of you may be second guessing a big decision from a dinner staple that's good. We'll explain.

Plus, Beyonce's country album may not be Texas enough. The award snub that's got the Beyhive buzzing, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:51]

WALLACE: Once again, it's time to get our group's yea or nay on some big talkers. Up first is the famous Seinfeld line that goes "No soup for you." After more than 150 years, Campbell Soup Company has decided to drop "soup" from its name. Don't worry, they're going to keep making your favorite canned classics. But the rebrand is the company's way of showcasing other items in its growing portfolio, from goldfish snacks to Pepperidge Farm Danishes. Lulu, are you yea or nay on changing the name of this iconic brand?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I am a hard nay. What are you going to do now, like repaint Warhol? I mean, it's terrible. I think it's an absolutely terrible idea. Campbell Soup is an iconic brand. And goldfish doesn't rise to the same level, frankly.

WALLACE: Well, I have to say, I have a certain feeling about this because as a kid, I used to have Campbell's chicken noodle soup every day, every day.

HENDERSON: Would you prepare it yourself or -- no microwaves, obviously.

WALLACE: I was a little kid.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: So Reihan. Are you as hidebound and traditionalist as Lulu? Where are you on taking the "soup" out of the name Campbell Soup company?

SALAM: As a passionate devotee of Campbell's cream of chicken soup, velvety, delicious, perfect, but also as the father of young children, goldfish are a big, big deal. Get rid of the soup. It's all about the goldfish.

WALLACE: Next -- a lot more passionate about that than I expected -- Apple trying to take a bite out of the A.I. craze. This week, the company showed off its latest products, including the new iPhone 16, powered by what they're calling Apple Intelligence. Some of the new features, creating your own emojis and making personalized A.I. generated pictures of friends or places you visited.

Then there's the smarter Siri, who can now dig through your emails and text messages to find answers and can understand more complex questions. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Siri, can you find that podcast, I mean, that song where I sent me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Siri find my glasses prescription. Nailed it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:45:02]

WALLACE: Of course, Apple hopes the new features will get more people to upgrade from their old phones, a process which has slowed in recent years. Jim, are you yea or nay on all that A.I. at the tip of your finger?

GERAGHTY: I have two teenagers. I'm told nobody uses email anymore. It's dead. It's a Generation X thing. They don't respond to my calls, they don't respond to my texts. Putting Skynet in my phone is not going to change any of that. That's the biggest problem I have with my cellphone. Beyond all that, there's a certain protection in the disorganization. If I have probably something in the neighborhood to 15,000 emails in there, because I am on every freaking spam list that's out there, there's no reason -- I kind of like the fact that nobody can find anything. That protects me.

WALLACE: So besides, hey, you kids get off the lawn, right, Jim?

GERAGHTY: Very much.

WALLACE: There you go. Nia, I've got to say, some of that A.I. technology looks pretty cool and like it would save you some time. Where are you?

HENDERSON: It makes me nervous. All of this A.I. stuff makes me nervous. I don't know where it's going. I feel like there is not enough vetting of all of this. And I worry about it. It's creeping me out. And so I am a big no on this.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Code sign.

WALLACE: Finally, the snub making waves in the music world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

BEYONCE, SINGER: This ain't Texas. Ain't no Hold 'Em. So lay your cards down, down, down, down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: You should have seen the dancing going on here. This week Beyonce and her Cowboy Carter album were shut out of the Country Music Awards with zero nomination, nada. Earlier this year, Queen Bey had the number one album and the number one single for "Texas Hold 'Em" on billboards country charts. As you might imagine, the so-called Beyhive is buzzing online, questioning whether the snub reflects deeper issues in country music like rice. Lulu, are you yea or nay on the CMA shutting out Beyonce?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Who is going to be yea with that other than the CMAs themselves? I mean, first of all, I don't want the Beyhive coming after me. And secondly, no, it is clearly a snub directed at her. That was a wonderful album. It was fantastic. It was a masterpiece, and she deserved to be nominated.

WALLACE: Reihan, are you one of those people who might say yay to this snub?

HENDERSON: Be careful, be careful.

(LAUGHTER)

SALAM: Look, the question is, what is the album you would have booted out from the CMA nominee list? And I don't have one. So I think it's OK. I think she'll live. She has a lot of fans out there.

HENDERSON: She's bigger than the CMAs, anyway. She doesn't need it.

SALAM: I think that's right.

WALLACE: The panel is back with their takes on hot stories or what will be in the news before it's news. That's right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:25]

WALLACE: It's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for. Lulu, hit me with your best shot.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, we've been talking a lot about the presidential race. We've been talking a lot about these swing states. But we have not been talking about the Senate races in these swing states. I want to take you through what we've seen in a recent poll in some of the three key swing states that we've all been discussing. First of all, in Michigan, Democrats 48 percent to 41 percent, Elissa Slotkin in the lead. Pennsylvania, good old Pennsylvania, which we have been focusing on so much, again, Democrats in the lead, 48 percent to 41 percent with Bob Casey in the lead there. And then Wisconsin bringing it home, 51 percent to 43 percent. This is well outside the margin of error, Tammy Baldwin, again, in the lead.

And what that shows you, I think, is that these are Democratic senators running well ahead of Kamala Harris, which I do think it's significant.

WALLACE: Why do you think they are running so far ahead of her? I mean, it's much closer to the presidential race than it has those Senate races.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, first of all, I think you have incumbents like Tammy Baldwin who are popular. But secondly, I do who think that people split tickets. And people are still unsure of Kamala Harris in some of these swing states. And I think it's a warning sign to her that, in fact, she needs to do more.

WALLACE: Jim, you are still chewing over Tuesday's debate.

GERAGHTY: Yes. ABC News moderators David Muir and Linsey Davis are now set up to be the scapegoats if Trump does not win the election. People will insist, they moderators, the Republican base will say the moderators wouldn't let them win the debate. And because he couldn't win the debate, he didn't win the election. In other words, Muire and Davis are set to be the next Chris Wallace.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: I welcome their taking that position. Nia?

HENDERSON: Education policy, barely mentioned at all in the debate, and it should be. These candidates should focus more on this bread- and-butter issue. So many millions of Americans are sending their kids to public schools that are overcrowded with teachers who don't make a lot of money, and the class size is 30, 35 kids. This is something that the candidates should focus on. If you're Harris, African American parents, Latino parents, working class parents of all backgrounds, this is their pathway to the middle class. It's something they should focus on.

If you're Trump, he has obviously said maybe he doesn't let's see a need for the Department of Education. If there's no Department of Education, what does that mean? It goes back to the states. He should be forced, I think pressed to talk about more what his vision for education is for the millions of kids who are sort of wasting away in underperforming public schools.

WALLACE: Reihan, bring us home.

[10:55:00] SALAM: Vice President Kamala Harris released her policy agenda this last week. A lot of it draws really heavily on the Biden-Harris administration's track record, and one of the issues that she really celebrates, she touts, is race-based contracting, the idea of setting aside government contracts for minority owned businesses. However, there's one problem here, which is that 71 percent of voters say they oppose race-based contracting, including 59 percent of Democrats. This is something that could be a vulnerability for Harris as she runs her campaign.

WALLACE: So real quickly, do you think this gets her votes in terms of minority people maybe being energized to vote for her, or do you think that's going to turn off nonminority voters.

SALAM: Well, actually, even if you look at minority voters, there's a lot of opposition, particularly among Latino voters. So my view is that this is going to be a strong issue for Republican Senate candidates, and even for former President Trump.

WALLACE: Gang, thank you all for being here, and thank you for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you right back here next week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)