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The Chris Wallace Show
Matt Gaetz Withdraws as President-Elect Trump's Nominee for Attorney General after Resistance from Republicans in U.S. Senate; Some Trump Cabinet Nominees May Face Headwinds for Senate Confirmation; President Biden Allows Ukraine to Fire Long Range Missiles into Russia, Prompting Vladimir Putin to Lower Russia's Nuclear Weapons Threshold; MSNBC Hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski Criticized for Meeting with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago; Delta Airlines to Serve Shake Shack Hamburgers to First Class Passengers; Retailers Say Sales of Large Alaskan King Beds Increasing; Pot Luck Thanksgiving Dinners More Popular Due to Increased Food Costs. Aired 10-11a ET.
Aired November 23, 2024 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:31]
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and welcome. It's time to break down the big stories with some smart people. Today we're asking, after the Matt Gaetz debacle and concerns about other nominees, will Senate Republicans reject more of Donald Trump's cabinet picks.
Then, peace through strength? We'll break down President Biden's change of mind on Ukraine and whether it could lead to the end of the war.
And later, if it's good enough for LeBron, is it good enough for you? The ginormous bed that's all the rage this holiday season.
The panel is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.
Up first, Donald Trump's transition troubles. This week his pick for attorney general withdrew from consideration, and his choice for defense secretary tried to build Senate support amid sexual assault allegations as Republicans on Capitol Hill walk a tightrope, handling Trump's controversial nominees.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MATT GAETZ, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: It's a great day of momentum for the Trump-Vance administration.
WALLACE: Less than 24 hours after that show of self-confidence, Matt Gaetz pulling the plug on his bid to be attorney general.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, are you reconsidering the nomination of Matt Gaetz?
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: No.
WALLACE: But Trump's support for Gaetz ended after getting reports at least four Senate Republicans couldn't get past a House Ethics investigation into claims Gaetz had multiple sexual encounters with a minor, which he denies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know enough people that were hell no.
WALLACE: Trump quickly nominating former Florida attorney general Pam Bondi to lead the DOJ as his transition team scrambles to secure GOP support for other cabinet hopefuls.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: The matter was fully investigated, and I was completely cleared.
WALLACE: Pentagon pick Pete Hegseth on the hill with vice president elect J.D. Vance dealing with a police report a woman accused him of sexual assault in 2017.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to have to answer those questions with regard to anything that's in his record.
WALLACE: Hegseth is not alone. Some Republicans also non-committal about Health and Human Services nominee Robert Kennedy Jr.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a process. He's got to go through the process.
WALLACE: And Tulsi Gabbard's shot to lead national intelligence also in question after supporting Syria's dictator and blaming NATO for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
NIKKI HALEY, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a place for a Russian, Iranian, Syrian, Chinese sympathizer.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
WALLACE: Here with me today, "New York Times" journalist and "The Interview" podcast host Lulu Garcia-Navarro, Reihan Salam, president of the Manhattan Institute and "National Review" contributing editor, politics and policy columnist at "Bloomberg," Nia-Malika Henderson, and conservative pollster and "New York Times' opinion writer Kristen Soltis Anderson. Welcome back, everyone.
Kristen, let's start with the Gaetz rejection by Senate Republicans. How big a setback for Donald Trump?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CONSERVATIVE POLLSTER AND "NEW YORK TIMES" CONTRIBUTING OPINION WRITER: I think I mentioned on the show last week that this was Donald Trump was a raptor testing the fences. He has discovered that they are electrified, that there are some places that Senate Republicans simply will not go. I think that Gaetz was always going to be the hardest sell. I am not surprised to see him have to withdraw. I do think that the Republican senators want to get to yes on everybody else, and I think that includes Pete Hegseth. WALLACE: We'll get to that in a moment. But I do want to talk about
the message here. Trump was riding high after the election, picking cabinet nominees at a record pace, telling the Senate to go on recess and give his choices a pass. But now Gaetz appears to be the earliest failed cabinet pick in modern history. Nia, how big a reality check for Donald Trump?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, OPINION COLUMNIST, "BLOOMBERG": Well, listen, I think Donald Trump thought he was going to be able to muscle Matt Gaetz through. If you think about it, this is his second defeat in the face of this Republican Senate. He really wanted Rick Scott to be the majority leader. They picked John Thune. So now with Matt Gaetz, they sort of said no, thank you, to Donald Trump. He was threatening a lot of these folks with primary challenges that were going to be backed by Elon Musk, and they still turned their backs on what Matt Gaetz was going to be.
And I think he sort of has misread or overread the mandate, overread his ability to power through this Republican Congress and this the Senate.
WALLACE: I want to pick up on that, Reihan, with you, because I think there was this sense, Trump certainly never said it explicitly, but there was this sense that he was just going to come into town and sweep away a lot of the traditional guardrails, like the Senate, like some of the other constraints on a president, and in this very first test, the guardrails held.
[10:05:16]
REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, I have to say, there's some reporting which suggests that this choice of Gaetz happened pretty improvisationally, shall we say, while they were all gathered together on the plane, and Susie Wiles was back in the back of the plane --
WALLACE: The chief of staff.
SALAM: -- not hearing about it. His chief of staff, his designated chief of staff.
And similarly, you know, in a conversation with Maggie Haberman, an inside source in Trump world seemed to suggest that were Gaetz to go away, it would be all right, and you'd go back to the drawing board. Some of us already believed that some of this is improvisational. Some of this is testing the guardrails, number one. Number two, some of us also believed that the genius of the framers is that, guess what, senators are elected to six-year terms. Senators are jealously protective of their institution and their prerogatives. And so the idea that he was going to somehow get all of these Republican senators, all these senators period, to subordinate themselves to him, it was always a bit of a fanciful sense. I think that this was very, very predictable.
WALLACE: Lulu? LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: I mean, what I think is this. Everyone sort of touting that the guardrails held. It was four senators who were the guardrails in this particular case that didn't give the Matt Gaetz the vote. That's a very, very small group of people --
ANDERSON: We don't know what the number is because it wasn't a vote.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It wasn't a vote. But we knew --
SALAM: There were at least 30 who raised concerns, right, in reporting.
WALLACE: But I mean, regardless, the point is he was trying to steamroll the Senate. And the Senate said no.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, but he was trying to steamroll the Senate with an absolutely unfit --
WALLACE: That was the point.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, no, but -- and more reporting came out throughout this process that really put him in a difficult position. I have to say, had there not been more evidence that that he had had contact with that 17-year-old, that he was grooming high school students, I think it would have been a different story.
At the end of the day, look what happened in the House. They actually still haven't released that report on him. They were trying to protect him. And so I don't know, I don't see this as some sort of like celebration of the system working.
WALLACE: Lulu, as we said in the setup piece, some of Trump's other picks that we named also face headwinds. Do you think that other nominees will be rejected, or just to do it delicately, pull themselves out? And if so, who do you think is in the most jeopardy?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think Tulsi Gabbard is probably going to be in the most jeopardy.
WALLACE: She's the choice for Director of National Intelligence
GARCIA-NAVARRO: She's the choice for Director of National Intelligence. And I think the process isn't just -- we haven't even gotten to the place where they're actually on the Hill yet and testifying. What's happening now is the media is digging into all these people. And what's happening now is that people are really, you know focusing on them. And so I actually think the more that's going to come out, the harder that it's going to be for some of these people.
But again, I've been on the record as saying from the beginning that I thought, you know they're all going to get through. So you know, don't take my word for it.
WALLACE: Let me ask you Reihan, do you think other Trump nominees will go down?
SALAM: I think it's entirely possible that it will happen. My guess, as Kristen was saying, is that Republican senators are going to, generally speaking, want his nominees to get through. But think back to Bill Clinton when he was trying to -- it was very important to him to have a female attorney general, the first female attorney general. He went through Zoe Baird, then Kimba Wood, then finally Janet Reno, someone that he did not know at all. These things happen.
What's happening now is that the cycle is much faster. The media frenzy is much more. And when Donald Trump does something, he's doing things that other presidents have done, but it's more lurid, it's more crazy, it's more of a spectacle.
WALLACE: I only would push back to the extent to say that it's not unusual for presidents to lose some picks. George H.W. Bush lost John Tower.
SALAM: Absolutely.
WALLACE: The difference is that Trump seemed to think after his reelection that he was going to come into town and remake the rules, and he didn't.
One other thing that people have noticed about Trump's picks, how many come from television. Pete Hegseth, Dr. Oz, Tulsi Gabbard, Sean Duffy, Mike Huckabee. Kristen, what do Trump's picks, these ones in particular, say about his priorities?
ANDERSON: Well, people are always looking for someone who they are comfortable with. And Donald Trump is very comfortable with people he has seen on television. He also prioritizes showmanship. He prioritizes messaging. And I think he thinks by choosing people who he enjoys watching on television that that will put a good face on his administration. And that on the policy stuff, that can all get sorted out by him just saying, no, I want this, get it done. And as long as somebody is a good face on television, it will make his agenda work.
HENDERSON: Yes. I mean, he's very big on charisma. He's very big on looking the part, whether or not that plays with these Republican senators who were appointed to six-year terms.
[10:10:01]
They have been there before Donald Trump. They're going to be there long after Donald Trump. So I think some of these folks, you mentioned Tulsi Gabbard, I think somebody like Pete Hegseth also might have an issue because what Trump likes isn't necessarily fitting with some of the qualifications that these senators are looking for. And it's not enough for them to be able to say, well, Donald Trump won the election. He's got all chambers, and we're just going to rubberstamp his people.
WALLACE: But Lulu, I'm asking a somewhat different question, which is what does do these TV hosts -- and look, some of them were, Huckabee was the governor of Arkansas. But what does his attraction to these TV hosts say about Trump?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: What they what it says is that he is interested in how this plays to the general public. He wants to dominate the media narrative. He is fascinated by television. He wants these people to go out and be his spokesperson. And really, he thinks that that is why he won the election, that he was able to kind of dominate the new media game, that he was really able to penetrate parts of the country that were not penetrated before. And I think that he believes that these people are going to be able to do that.
And again, he's planning on radically remaking government. And so he's going to need spokespeople to sell that to the American people. So maybe he's right in choosing these people.
WALLACE: Halfway around the world, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine is escalating, including Vladimir Putin making a change that could bring us one step closer to nuclear war.
Then, kissing the ring, the controversial move by two TV hosts, which has us debating how reporters should cover Donald Trump.
And later, get ready to laugh. We look back at some of the funniest moments on this show, including a certain someone doing a Snoopy dance.
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[10:16:41]
WALLACE: With less than two months left in office, President Biden is trying to shape the outcome of Russia's war in Ukraine with a surprising policy change. This week, Ukraine fired longer range U.S. missiles into Russia for the first time after Biden gave them the go ahead. After holding out for months, the president reportedly changed his mind after the Kremlin brought North Korean troops into the fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It could, in essence, freeze the territories that the Ukrainians have and that the Russians have. And so this could pave the way for negotiations at the current level right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: In response, Russian President Putin revised the country's nuclear code, lowering the threshold for using nukes. And in a clear escalation, Russia fired a ballistic missile with several warheads into eastern Ukraine. It's the first time a missile of that kind has been used in the war.
Kristen, is President Bidens last minute shift on Ukraine smart?
ANDERSON: I mean, he's certainly saying let her rip here at the end. I think he assumes that Donald Trump will come in and be less favorable to the Ukrainian cause. And so he's saying do whatever you've got to to make as much progress as you can now before I'm gone.
I do think that one of the criticisms of him was that they were asking Ukraine to be too restrained early on when maybe Ukraine had a chance of putting this to bed when Russia was a little bit on the ropes. So it seems to me that he's really just trying to get as much out of his system before Trump comes into office.
WALLACE: Biden was reportedly worried letting Ukraine use American weapons to strike inside Russia risked escalation, even some said World War III. But given Trump's lack of support for Ukraine, President Biden apparently wanted to leave Kyiv in the strongest position for a negotiated settlement. Lulu, even some of Biden's supporters say, yes, the policy switch, we understand it, but it's way too little, way too late.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, it's an act of desperation on his way out. And I don't know that it's going to have the intended effect, as Kristen points out, of actually leaving Ukraine in a stronger position. Putin's strategy has always been one of a waiting game, of waiting out the American system of democracy, to have -- to leech support for Ukraine and or have a different administration come in. So, I mean, he only has a couple of months before I think things will be much more favorable to him.
WALLACE: But it seems like what Biden is saying is this is going to end up in a negotiated settlement and I want Ukraine to be in the strongest position it can, for instance, to keep its territory inside Russia and Kursk so they have something to give back and forth.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Reihan shaking his head.
SALAM: Well, look, you will --
WALLACE: Thank you for that.
SALAM: -- you will recall Chris, that on this program I defended the Biden administration's previous position. They made a compelling case for a few different reasons. One, when you're looking at these ATACMS, in order to use them effectively, you would actually need U.S. aid in targeting the missiles. Otherwise you're using essentially a luxury automobile to do something that it's not really designed to do. So this is incredibly wasteful. We do not have many of these ATACMS. The Ukrainians do not have many of them. So this is a serious, serious strategic error in my judgment.
[10:20:00]
Do I think that the Ukrainians, should we have unleashed them earlier on? Maybe. We could debate that. But when Biden and Lloyd Austin made the case recently that we are not going to let them use ATACMS on Russian soil, I think that was very sensible. Now, this is very reckless, last minute stuff that I don't think is actually going to be especially helpful to Ukraine.
WALLACE: Then there's Putin's response lowering the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons. Here is the State Department's response. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW MILLER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I am unfortunately not surprised by the comments the Kremlin has made around the publication of this new, revised nuclear doctrine. We will continue to call on Russia to stop bellicose and irresponsible rhetoric.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Nia, how seriously should the U.S. and the west take Putin's nuclear threat?
HENDERSON: Listen, I think you have to take Putin, given his behavior so far, vis-a-vis Ukraine, I think you have to take what he says seriously. This is obviously in response to what Ukraine has done, backed by the U.S., the weapons. And so in some ways, this was a bit of a blunder because it now has put Ukraine maybe in a more perilous position that's even going to be more perilous, right, once Donald Trump takes office. You saw him in that debate when asked about what does he want to see the outcome in terms of this war, and he just says he wants it to be over. Not that --
WALLACE: He refused to say I want Ukraine to win.
HENDERSON: Exactly.
WALLACE: Reihan, Putin has rattled the nuclear saber before, but this was very chilling. This was an intermediate range ballistic missile with multiple warheads that was fully -- they were conventional, but they were fully capable of being nuclear warheads instead of conventional warheads. How much should we make of this talk about a nuclear threat?
SALAM: We should be very disturbed by it. And this was the background behind why the Biden administration earlier on was saying let's be restrained in the use of these weapons on Russian soil. This is deadly serious. I think you hear a lot of people, a lot of smart, thoughtful people I agree with on a lot of things who said Russia is a paper tiger. Don't take it seriously. My view is that this is a very combustible, global situation, number one.
Number two, one thing that really concerns me is that I think that part of the background here, why did the Biden administration not do this before, is because they were concerned about what happens to global markets, including global oil markets. And it almost seems as though, hey, we're not going to worry about that now. We're going to let Putin engage in this incredible escalatory rhetoric and really rattle global markets now that he's out the door. That, to me, does not seem very presidential and very statesman like.
And then Donald Trump takes office in January, and he talked during the campaign, he could end this war in 24 hours. I'm not going to ask you about the 24-hour part of it, Kristen, but how does this end?
ANDERSON: I think this ends with Donald Trump putting pressure on our allies and Ukraine to accept a deal that involves them ceding some territory. I think that's the way this is going to go. I think that he's going to say the American people do not have as much appetite for continuing to send you assistance. And so take a good deal, don't make this stretch out and wind up with a worse deal.
WALLACE: Of course, the question is what's a good deal, Nia, and, you know, one of the concerns, and it seems at this point, given the balance of power, is that a deal that would have to be made, particularly if Trump is basically pulling the rug out from under Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians, is that Russia gets to keep some of the territory that it has gained during this almost three-year war.
HENDERSON: Thats right. You embolden Russia. They essentially win. They invaded a sovereign country. And if they come away with parts of that country, what more might they do going forward, particularly with a weakened west, particularly with the Donald Trump, who is essentially saying were not going to come to the defense of a country like Ukraine?
WALLACE: So if that were to happen, Lulu, that the war is negotiated -- we've only got a couple of seconds here -- Russia gets to keep some of its gains, what's the message to Putin?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: The message to Putin -- that's always been the fear. The message to Putin is, hey, we can't -- we're not going to protect you. Take what you want. It's all it's all yours. And I think it leaves Russia in a much stronger position.
WALLACE: One standoff that's sure to get heated over the next four years, Trump versus the news media. So how should journalists handle it?
And later, king of kings, the new bed choice that's bringing a whole new meaning to family sized.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:29:16]
WALLACE: With Donald Trump returning to power, some journalists who Trump once dubbed "the enemy of the people", are debating how best to cover the new administration. If two liberal morning show hosts are any guide, the challenge comes with controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUNNY HOSTIN, "THE VIEW" CO-HOST: I don't think you need to sit down for 90 minutes and kiss his ring.
WALLACE: Major blowback for MSNBC's Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski after telling viewers they met with Donald Trump.
JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC ANCHOR: It's time for a new approach.
WALLACE: Fierce Trump critics, the "Morning Joe" hosts say they went to Mar-a-Lago to restart communications.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST: Not only talking about Donald Trump, but also talking with him.
[10:30:00]
WALLACE: But sources tell CNN the meeting was driven by fears of retribution, like governmental and legal harassment from the Trump administration, which the president-elect is not shy about threatening.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: CBS gets a license. I think they have to take their license away.
WALLACE: Trump picked a new FCC chairman who has talked about blocking a merger involving CBSs parent company over the editing of a "60 Minutes" interview with Kamala Harris.
BRENDAN CARR, TRUMP'S NOMINEE FOR FCC CHAIR: I'm pretty confident that that news distortion complaint is something that's likely to arise in the context of the FCC's review of that transaction.
WALLACE: And Trump called for Republicans to kill a bill that would protect reporters from having to reveal their sources, which Trump says should land journalists behind bars.
TRUMP: You tell the reporter, who is it? And the reporter will either tell you or not. And if the reporter doesn't want to tell you, the reporter goes to jail.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
WALLACE: Kristen, is the outrage -- and I think that you have to call it that, what the reaction has been -- is the outrage over Joe and Mika's visit to Mar-a-Lago deserved?
ANDERSON: I think it's a little much. I feel like the way this is being treated, like it's some kind of Cold War summit between major powers, is a little bit much. And I also, I am personally not outraged by it. I do think that it's a little bit silly. If you were somebody who had said, I think that Donald Trump is ushering in fascism, to suddenly say, well maybe he's not so bad, let's go talk to him, it does feel like it hits an odd note. But I think that it makes sense to engage with the person who is going to be the president of the United States.
WALLACE: Nia, I want to get to that point. Does it matter why they went down to Mar-a-Lago, whether it was just to open communications with the new president of the United States, or whether it was, as some reports have it, to try to ward off retribution and legal harassment?
HENDERSON: Not really. And listen, it probably was all of the above. They want to do their jobs better on the air. They want to be more informed about what this president is going to do. Maybe they want to try to sway what this president is thinking in terms of his treatment of the press. Maybe it's specifically them, about how he might treat them. There was obviously bipartisan outrage. And this is a larger question about how we cover Donald Trump this time. I've been covering him since 2015. I think most of us have. There was a way and an approach to him in the first administration, a lot of it was based on outrage and covering every tweet endlessly.
WALLACE: We're going to get into more of that in a moment.
HENDERSON: And we'll see what the approach is this time. But it certainly has to be different, I think, going forward.
WALLACE: That raises the question, will Trump go after reporters and their corporate bosses with investigations, challenges to license renewals, and big mergers? Here was former Trump adviser Steve Bannon just out of prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Ari Melber, all you hosts, preserve your documents. All of it. You better be worried. You better lawyer up. Some of you young producers better call mom and dad tonight. Hey, mom and dad, you know a good lawyer? Lawyer up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Well, he knows something about lawyering up. Lulu, will Trump try to punish the media? I'm not talking about rhetorical stuff --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, I know.
WALLACE: -- about fake media. I'm talking about going after reporters. He talked about killing the act that would protect us from having to reveal our sources, going after corporate mergers, license renewals. Will he try to punish the media?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, that's the fear. And it's the flipside of what we were talking about earlier with Trump's succession, with the media and owning the message. How do you own the message? Well, you have to also kind of destroy the other part of it, the fact-based media that might act as a counterweight to that.
And so I think that the famous saying, we're not at war, we're at work, which Marty Baron said at "The Washington Post" during the first Trump administration to talk about what the attitude of the fact-based media should be in the Trump administration, I think is something that they're adopting this time.
I also think that it's clear that Donald Trump is at war with the fact-based media.
WALLACE: At war?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think so. I mean, I think all those comments that he said. I mean, he's basically saying a statement of intent. I mean, are we not going to take Donald Trump seriously after all this time? I mean, I just don't understand, like, we take him seriously with everything else. And so I don't know why we wouldn't this time.
WALLACE: Again, Reihan, I want to be clear here. I'm not talking about him saying bad things about us. I'm talking about him taking reporters to court, trying to block our bosses, the people that own these companies, from conducting mergers or renewing licenses, I mean really using the power of the government. Is the concern about Trump trying to curb a free press legitimate or overwrought?
SALAM: Well, I think that people are certainly allowed to be concerned about anything they'd like to be concerned about.
WALLACE: I'm asking here.
SALAM: I think the danger -- I think the danger that Donald Trump faces is getting a thermostatic reaction, that is saying things that are going to elicit a really strong civil society response and a response from people that he depends on if he seems to be too extreme.
[10:35:09]
That has always been the danger for Donald Trump that he faces. And I think that the net effect of all of this talk is really going to be that you're going to really enrich and embolden the media. During the first Trump presidency, this was an incredible time for legacy incumbent media organizations. Many of them have really deep internal divides, really deep internal problems. The money was rushing in. The pride was there, the energy and excitement and enthusiasm was there. I think you may well see that again.
I also see some course-correction. I see some of these institutions that are thinking a lot about how they torched their credibility and lost the faith of a lot of news consumers.
WALLACE: I want to pick up on that part of it, because there is an issue, as Nia and Reihan have mentioned, reporters are struggling with now. Trump is clearly going to push the envelope, try to expand presidential powers. But Democratic Senator John Fetterman warned journalists not to overreact to every provocation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN, (D-PA): It's still not even Thanksgiving yet. And if we're having meltdowns every tweet or every appointment or all those things, I mean, it's going to be four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Kristen, how would you advise the media to cover Donald Trump?
ANDERSON: I would advise the media to focus on the facts, report the facts, report what is, rather than try to tell people how they should feel or what should be. I think that's where the media has gotten into problems over the last couple of years is by telling people, are you not outraged? Are you not upset about this thing Donald Trump did? And a lot of Americans would say -- GARCIA-NAVARRO: And a lot of Americans -- the media, I just, I find
this --
WALLACE: We've got to hurry up here.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I know, but I just find this idea of like the media -- there is no "the media" anymore. When you're talking about that, you're saying you're trying to describe what is called legacy media and other things. I mean, I just don't think that there's one media anymore. We are now in a disaggregated media. And so there is no just one narrative.
WALLACE: That's certainly true.
Up next, a new trend for Thanksgiving which may have you rethinking your plans, especially if you hope to stay out of the kitchen.
Plus, a taste of first class, the new, not so fancy food option for those spending big bucks to fly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:42:16]
WALLACE: Once again, it's time to get our group's yea or nay on some big talkers. Up first, extra legroom, a glass of champagne, and now fast food as part of the first class experience. Delta Airlines announced it's teaming up with Shake Shack to serve cheeseburgers to first class passengers on long distance domestic flights. The burgers will not be grilled in flight. No, they'll be cooked on the ground then reheated on board. They'll come with potato chips, Caesar salad, and a brownie. Sorry, no crinkle cut fries.
Kristen. Yea or nay on fast food in first class?
ANDERSON: I think this sounds fantastic. I would 100 percent choose this if I was sitting in first class over the reheated molten hot lava ziti in a nuclear hot little ceramic dish. Sign me up for this.
WALLACE: Back in the 90s, United for a while was serving McDonalds happy meals on some of its flights. Lulu. Shake Shack is definitely an upgrade over happy meals.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is gross. Come on.
(LAUGHTER)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is gross. This is like -- nothing reheated on a plane is good, not even Shake Shack. And I just feel like if I paid all that money for first class, you'd better be giving me some nuclear ziti as opposed to some Shake Shack that's like 5.99.
WALLACE: I don't know. If that's my choice I think I'll go with Shake Shack over nuclear ziti. I was hoping for a third option.
(LAUGHTER) WALLACE: While you can't supersize your in-flight burger, here's something you can think big about. Retailers say sales of giant nine- foot-by-nine-foot Alaskan king beds are climbing. While they've long been popular with pro-athletes, they're now being advertised as a more comfortable way for normal sized people to sleep. We did the math. Check this out. With a frame as wide as two full sized beds, the Alaskan King bed can fit the average starting lineup of an NBA team.
Lulu, are you yay or nay on supersized beds?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, first of all, how are you going to get the sheets? I mean, it just feels like it's very expensive to put everything on the sheets --
WALLACE: You don't think you're going to have sheets, Alaskan sheets for Alaskan beds?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I guess, but I think they're going to be hard and very expensive. But I'm a yea, because actually, I do think it's nice to, like, all cuddle up and, you know be on a bed the size of an island. Like, why do you even have to leave your bed anymore? Why do you even have to leave your room? You can just sort of like, eat, sleep, and live, put a little igloo over it.
WALLACE: All right, this may be too much information, but after 27 years of marriage, Lorraine and I are finally graduating from a queen sized bed to just a regular king sized bed. My choice, not hers.
Reihan, where are you on the Alaskan king?
SALAM: I'm pro because my wife has always accused me of being a blanket hog. And you know, she was besmirching my blanket reputation. And finally we got a much bigger bed, and now we have separate duvets under one big shared coverlet. And so I can get as much blanket as I want, she gets as much blanket as she wants, and there's amity in the Salam household.
WALLACE: Oh boy, too much information we're all sharing.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: Finally, as many of us celebrate Thanksgiving this week, you may be expected to contribute a little more than usual if you're not hosting. A new survey finds people are opting for potluck style dinners this year because of high food prices, with nearly half of hosts saying they expect their guests to contribute food and drinks to the meal. Nia, are you yea or nay on potluck Thanksgiving?
HENDERSON: I am a yea on getting your Thanksgiving completely catered or going out to eat. I do not cook. No one I know in my family cooks. We go out to eat. We're going to go out to eat on Thursday with my in- laws, my wife and my daughter and my daughter's godmother, and we're not going to have any dishes to clean. And that's my preference for Thanksgiving.
WALLACE: Kristen, I know you're a cook. Will you be asking guests to bring their own stuffing to Thanksgiving dinner?
ANDERSON: So we cook extensively for Thanksgiving. It's one of my favorite holidays. And I am actually in favor of people bringing stuff over. It's not an expectation, but I like seeing someone else's interesting twist on how to do green beans or mashed potatoes. I think it's neat. So I'm in favor of having guests contribute.
WALLACE: We're back with the best shot of best moments, and a special goodbye. That's right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:51:18]
WALLACE: Before we go on my last show with the gang here, I want to take a moment to look back at some of the fun we've had along the way. In addition to strong disagreements about serious issues, we've had some dancing, lots of eating, and some questionable eyewear choices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": Hi Chris. What's up?
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: Kara, I'm going to start with you, and be gentle.
SWISHER: I know.
WALLACE: Because I am wearing the bracelet that you gave me.
SALAM: You know what Olivia Rodrigo's music is way, way better. And you know "Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl."
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's wonderful. It keeps you cool. It kind of looks hip.
WALLACE: Here we go. We got a pop star.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: There you go, there you go.
WALLACE: And what are you wearing for Halloween?
ANDERSON: I think I'm going to go as somebody who I was very scared to meet the first time. And Lulu has chosen to join me as well. We're going to make the Kara Swisher --
WALLACE: Wait a minute.
ANDERSON: -- the most popular Halloween costume.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: You know what's worse than one Kara Swisher? Three Kara Swishers.
It's time for a taste test. Everybody, a cookie.
SWISHER: You're going to make us do this? No.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Cheers.
WALLACE: All right, this is Dr. Pepper.
Pepsi.
SWISHER: Oh, God.
SALAM: Don't you guys love the Snoopy dance, just from the shows where they were just kind of dancing?
SWISHER: No.
(MUSIC)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: There were some really cute rodents eating spaghetti.
WALLACE: How much time do you spend on TikTok?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: None of your business.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: All of my polling actually has it reversed to say --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You poll on this?
ANDERSON: Yes, I poll on everything.
(LAUGHTER)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Where are you on Uno?
SALAM: I'm sorry to say that I've never played uno very shamefully.
WALLACE: It turns out the folks at Mattel, which makes Uno, were watching. Here is all of your Uno --
SALAM: Wow. That's amazing. Thank you, Mattel. And thank you, Chris.
ANDERSON: I would just like to say I've never driven a Ferrari.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP).
WALLACE: So besides Uno, Reihan what will you remember about Saturday mornings?
SALAM: Besides having a lot of fun with you all, I've really loved debriefing about the show with my mother, who is the most passionate, smart news consumer I know, and we would bond and argue over everyone's takes. And it was a huge, huge pleasure and delight. WALLACE: Lulu, any special memories?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I loved having Kara Swisher as my wing person. I love sharpening my arguments with Reihan and arguing with Reihan. And I love you, Kristen. You are one of the smartest political minds, but you will never make me like sports.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: I'll have to work on my persuasion skills.
WALLACE: Kristen, what are you going to remember? What are you going to think about?
ANDERSON: I loved preparing for the show every week. It forced me to think about the important issues, even ones outside of my normal zone. But the thing that I'll regret the most is I never did get that Ferrari.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: I have to say, you were the biggest single surprise to me, whether it was fantasy football or Lego bonsai trees.
ANDERSON: I live to mystify.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: And you succeed.
Finally, it's time to say goodbye. I've treasured spending Saturday mornings with you. When I came up with the idea for this program, I thought it would be useful to have an intelligent, generally respectful conversation about all manner of subjects with smart people coming from different perspectives, mostly politics and policy, but also intriguing cultural issues, and fun topics ranging from Taylor Swift's latest album to the merits of fake Christmas trees. Lulu is still wrong about that.
In the year plus we've been on the air, many of you have written to say how much you enjoy our discussions. That's what this is all about.
[10:55:01]
Just as important, all of us on the panel have become friends, sharing stories about our families, and remedies when one of us has a scratchy throat.
And I'm so grateful to the talented staff that has put the show together, producing the setup pieces, creating clever graphics, and coming up with some of the best ideas for topics.
But in today's media world, the one constant is change. For years I've been wanting to explore new media where you can have more agency over what you're doing and engage in a more intimate conversation. So maybe this isn't really goodbye. Let's just say, until next time. (APPLAUSE)
WALLACE: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
