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Dr. Drew

Casey Anthony Trial Over but Drama Continues

Aired July 14, 2011 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

George and Cindy Anthony vanished. Where are Casey`s parents? I`d like to know.

And cash for Casey. Is she a charity case now?

Plus, life after tragedy. Beth Holloway, Ed Smart, Rusty Yates and Dena Thompson have all been there, and they are here to talk about it.

Let`s go figure this out.

All right. Now, I want to start off today by saying a little something about Caylee`s Law.

Now, it`s a good idea, but I always just hate it when big brother has to jump in on us. California is now jumping on the bandwagon to make it a crime to not immediately report a missing child`s disappearance or death. More than a dozen states have taken similar action since Casey Anthony was found not guilty of murder.

It sounds like a great idea, doesn`t it? I`m not so sure. I`m not so sure. I think we need to keep talking about it.

Let`s face it, parents or designated adults are responsible for their children. We need laws? All right.

Well, even well-intended laws can`t take the place of common sense and good judgment and good parenting. What`s more, a distraught caretaker might not be in a position emotionally to make a quick decision about calling authorities.

Could this create so much noise in the system, as Mark Eiglarsh suggested yesterday, that we actually inundate the system? In other words, could a law with great intentions have unintended consequences?

Now, I`m not taking a specific stand on this, but I`m just saying it`s a good idea, but let`s have some thoughtful debate about this. And let`s be reasonable as we move forward. Again, big brother telling us to do the job that we should be doing anyway, let`s keep Caylee in mind as we move forward in her memory. OK?

All right. Tonight, the trial is over but the drama continues. Take a look, then we will talk.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the few people who may know what is next for Casey Anthony may be one of her attorneys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you let Casey baby sit your kids?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my kids are older.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her defense team apparently was monitoring social networking and used that to tweak their strategy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A blog site started not liking George, then the defense thought, OK, let`s be tougher in our questioning on George.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony reportedly has a million-dollar offer on the table.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think a network is going to put her on TV and make her a star in anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we`ll see about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She obviously has some kind of incredible charisma and ability to mesmerize people.


PINSKY: We have just three days until Casey Anthony is a free woman. Jose Baez visits his client in jail. But are her parents George and Cindy in hiding? Will they see Casey when she gets out of jail?

Plus, new information coming in tonight.


GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Sir, definitely something happened to Caylee. She`s no longer with us. And Casey was the last one that I saw with Caylee. One and one adds up to two, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you dispose of the body of your granddaughter?

ANTHONY: No, I did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you obtain Duct tape from your shed or garage and place it over the nose and mouth of Caylee Anthony?

ANTHONY: No, I did not. I didn`t want to believe back then that my daughter could be capable of taking the life of her daughter.


PINSKY: Did Casey`s dream team plot to pin this crime on George Anthony after realizing the public didn`t really like him? We will tell you how the defense used Facebook and other social media sites to lay out their case.

And Casey gets cash from admirers. New reports today that she`s using the dough to live it up behind bars. She`s been buying eyeliner, ponytail holders, and I guess premium chicken snacks, whatever that might be.

Why on earth are people sending Casey money? Why does an accused killer get fans? Both males and females seem to have this same attraction -- to killers, that is.

I`m going to try to make sense of all this.

Straight out to my guests, attorneys Mark Eiglarsh and Mark NeJame. And with me tonight, host of "ISSUES" on HLN, Jane Velez-Mitchell. She is live in Orlando.

Jane, give me the latest.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES": All right. Well, I`m here outside the jail, Dr. Drew.

Jose Baez, Casey`s defense attorney, visited her here for about 45 minutes. And, of course, there was a lot of speculation, why is he here? Are they going to take her out early, or could they possibly be talking about this, a slew of paperwork in the latest battle?

The attorneys for Zenaida Gonzalez, who said Casey Anthony ruined her life and is suing Casey for defamation, they want to be able to go into the jail behind me with their cameras and videotape a deposition of Casey Anthony before she is released, which is scheduled for Sunday. So there`s going to be a huge legal battle tomorrow in court, first thing in the morning. The attorneys for Zenaida are going to go there to the judge and say, we want to go in there and talk to her even though she doesn`t want to talk to us.

Now, Casey Anthony`s civil attorney says, hey, she just went through a grueling trial, she is emotionally and psychologically exhausted. This is not a good time to do this. But the attorneys for Zenaida fear once she gets out of here, Jose Baez has already said she`s going to leave the area and they`ll never be able to get her again.

She could change her identity. She could adopt a new name. And they`re afraid they`re never going to see her again.

PINSKY: Jane, who is this civil defense attorney? Do we have a new player in this game?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. We`ve got an attorney -- he filed this. His name is Charles Greene, I believe. Yes, Charles Greene.

And even though he is the civil attorney who is working on this case, I think it would make sense for Jose Baez to go in there and talk to Casey about, well, what are your options if the judge rules in the favor of Zenaida Gonzalez and they traipse in here with TV cameras? The reason why, Dr. Drew, is that she probably is very afraid of being videotaped in any way, shape, or form, because that`s going to lower her ability to sell her first exclusive interview for a pricey sum.

If she ends up on videotape, and Morgan & Morgan, the attorneys for Zenaida Gonzalez, release that videotape, then it`s almost like the first interview. And John Morgan, Zenaida`s attorney, has told me he plans to ask her all the questions that prosecutors would have grilled her on had she taken the stand.

PINSKY: Wow. Thank you, Jane.

So many horses in this race.

A consultant for Casey`s attorneys looked at more than 40,000 opinions on social media sites and blogs. Then she used them to help the defense with their trial strategy. One of the things bloggers and commenters didn`t like, the fact that George Anthony had an alleged mistress.



KRYSTAL HOLLOWAY, GEORGE ANTHONY`S ALLEGED FMR. MISTRESS: I didn`t think that he could raise somebody that was capable of harming her child. And that`s when he said it was an accident that snowballed out of control.

But I was caught off guard with it. And by the time I looked up, he had tears in his eyes. And I didn`t say anything after that.


PINSKY: Mark Eiglarsh, the defense consultant says Baez beefed up his questioning of George when they saw the public was attacking him. Could that be where they got the idea to pin this all on him?

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It could be. I think that he had the idea from day one. But here`s what we learned from the jurors, particularly juror number 3. It didn`t work.

She claims that she didn`t buy it, nor did the other jurors, buy the fact that George molested Casey. And secondly, this accidental drowning theory. They literally rejected the defense`s theory and actually found it offensive.

So, literally, what we`ve learned now -- and it`s invaluable to have this insight -- Jose Baez could have gotten up there and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, it`s not Casey who did this. It was Colonel Mustard with the candle stick in the ballroom." And they still would have won the case.


PINSKY: That`s very interesting.

Now, Joy Behar spoke to Casey`s defense attorney, Dorothy Clay Sims, and she asked a really great question: would she let Casey babysit her kids. Watch this.


JOY BEHAR, HLN: Let me ask you something. Do you have children?


BEHAR: Would you let Casey babysit your kids? You say she`s innocent.

SIMS: Well, you know, my kids are older.

BEHAR: Well, let`s say they were younger. Would you leave her with your children?

SIMS: I liked Casey Anthony. I came to trust her. And that`s a really -- I felt the Casey Anthony that I knew, I felt very comfortable with her. I felt that the person that I became close to during that trial, I felt comfortable with her.

BEHAR: Well, I guess if you believe she`s completely innocent, then you would.


PINSKY: Little bit of an evasive answer there.

Mark NeJame, you have two kids. Would you -- give me a straight answer. Would you leave your kids with Casey Anthony?


PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. Fair enough. I think I`d feel the same way.

The other day I was talking to Marcia Clark, and she was asking -- the issue of adoption came up. And we started thinking, oh my God, what if you were the adoption agency? Name please? Casey Anthony. Impossible.

NEJAME: Look, the best case that she has is that she allowed her daughter to be wrapped and dumped and rot. Forget acquittal, guilty of a homicide, not guilty of a homicide. Her best case is that her daughter died, was wrapped and dumped, left to decay without a blessing, a memorial, or otherwise.

Is that anybody would leave their child with? Of course not.

PINSKY: Mark NeJame, do you have any insight to where the Anthonys have gone tonight?

NEJAME: I don`t get into any of that. I just don`t talk about them being my former clients. They`ve got an excellent lawyer, and I defer everything to him.

PINSKY: Well, let me sort of ask an easier question that I think you could answer. Is our feelings about Casey having thrown her dad under the bus and feelings of sort of sympathy for Cindy appropriate?

NEJAME: You know, I can observe -- I observed like everybody else did what occurred at that trial. And I thought it was going to be different, but the verdict came in.

I think as Mark talked about, the jurors focused on some other things that many of us were not focusing on, we were not looking at. And they ended up thinking that it was basically a mishmash, and even though they had a gut feeling, they could not find that -- they saw there was reasonable doubt and they acted accordingly.

PINSKY: Coming up, Zanny the nanny never existed. She was one of Casey`s friends. But now a real woman whose name is Zenaida Gonzalez says Caylee`s death ruined her life. Will Casey be forced to go back to court to face her? That`s coming up next.


CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I`m in front of the cameras all the time. What message do you want me to give to Zanny and to Caylee? What do you want me to tell Zanny?

CASEY ANTHONY, DEFENDANT: That she needs to return Caylee. I forgive her.

CINDY ANTHONY: What do you think her reasons are?

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t know.





SIMS: There are many explanations for various types of behavior to traumatic events. And the overwhelming number of e-mails from people who have experienced trauma make that very clear. We have people who pretend things never happened in the first place because that`s the only way they can deal with it.


PINSKY: Tonight, Casey`s defense team is speaking out. That was Casey`s attorney, Dorothy Clay Sims, the same attorney that jumped up and down with joy after the verdict came down.

She`s attempting to explain how someone could go out partying while knowing their daughter is dead in a trash bag. She talked about trauma.

Let me say that most of the people that I`ve spoken to who are trauma survivors, who relate to Casey, they relate to her out of this (ph), the sort of checked out quality she has in court. They do not relate to the way she behaved during that 31 days.

That is inexplicable. That is the part that we all find so unbelievable.

Again, she`s talking about acute or Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. My patients don`t do stuff like that. Yes, they may pretend these things didn`t happen, but with that kind of detached quality, that is something extraordinary.

I`m back with my guests, the host of "ISSUES" on HLN, Jane Velez- Mitchell; and attorney Mark Eiglarsh; and Mark NeJame.

Mark NeJame, straight to you. I understand you`re in a proposed law that would prevent jurors from profiting off of cases. Tell us about that.

NEJAME: Well, I was inspired with this. Obviously, we`ve been involved in following this case for three years, like so many others. And the verdict came in. Both sides picked their jurors, and the verdict is in. That was over.

But what got to me was when I heard about one of the jurors actually having a representative and going out and wanting to sell his story for the highest bidder. And that concerned me. It concerns me on a couple of levels.

I`m bothered that somebody could get a jury summons, and then they use that basically tantamount to hitting the lottery. I want my jurors to be unbiased. I don`t want them to be tempted by the great tempter of money. There`s a First Amendment too which we needed to balance.

PINSKY: Whoops. We just lost him there.

Jane, do you have feelings about this proposed law?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it`s a good idea. I certainly wouldn`t say that we should muzzle these jurors. They should be allowed to speak. But the idea that they have to wait nine months before selling their story seems to me like a reasonable idea in today`s crazy media world.

We did hear reports that there was one of the jurors who had gotten a rep and was running around pitching himself to the highest bidder. And so Marcia Clark, the famous O.J. prosecutor, said to me, I`ve heard reports, she said, that people get on these juries and then they try to influence the jurors, their fellow jurors, to go a certain way so they can make the verdict more shocking, which would increase their payday if they sell their story.

And to me, that`s absolutely outrageous. That is a perversion of our criminal justice system, and we can`t allow that to happen.

I`m not a fan of a lot of these laws. Every time a tragedy happens, there`s a slew of laws they try to propose. But I think this one makes sense, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Excellent.

There will be a hearing tomorrow for a lawsuit the real Zenaida Gonzalez is bringing against Casey Anthony. Now, she said even though she had never met Casey, she began getting threats. Listen to this.


ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, SUING CASEY ANTHONY: I mean, imagine you`re being blamed for something that you`ve never done. I mean, you didn`t even know the person. You can`t imagine.

I have my daughters -- I got a lot of threatening e-mails, and they were mostly threatening my daughters. I had phone calls, as well as e- mails. I had people calling me at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning asking me if I was the babysitter.

Then I had my e-mails, and they were saying, oh, we`re going to do to you what you did to that little girl. We`re going to do to your daughters the same thing to see how you like it.


PINSKY: We have this just in. The hearing is now set for 8:00 tomorrow morning, and Casey will not be present.

Mark Eiglarsh, do you think this woman`s lawsuit holds water?

EIGLARSH: The short answer is, unfortunately, no. And I say unfortunately because we all still would like Casey to pay some way, somehow. But I`ve read the lawsuit. I`ve looked into it. I think it has tremendous challenges.

And so the answer is, unfortunately, probably no.

PINSKY: Give us a brief glimpse here. What are the challenges?

EIGLARSH: Well, when she said the name, she didn`t specifically intend to harm. And I know, arguably, the theory is it was reasonably foreseeable that there could be someone in particular.

Listen, they had a tough challenge creating reasonable doubt in her case, and they did so, magically. I don`t think that she`s going to have a tough time in the civil arena creating doubt as well.

PINSKY: And Jane, I`ve got about 30 seconds left. How did Casey get out of this hearing tomorrow?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she`s incarcerated, and she and her attorney are saying she`s emotionally and psychologically exhausted from her criminal case. Even though she was acquitted, she`s just too burnt out to do anything. And that`s one of the reasons they`re saying they don`t want to do this deposition, because she`s exhausted and unavailable.

PINSKY: And Yet, I talked to the psychologist that had evaluated her for 20 hours who said she`s got nothing going on, she`s perfectly healthy, just a little immature. I`m going to talk to that guy tomorrow, by the way. I tried to get him today. I`ve been beating on the producers to get him. He`ll be here tomorrow.

Thank you, Mark.

Thank you, Jane.

Next, got questions about Casey? I`ve got answers.

And later, Ed Smart, Beth Holloway and others who lived through high- profile tragedies, they will weigh in on the Anthony case.



PINSKY: I can`t believe that. Wait a minute, Doctor. I can`t believe that.

She has created a vortex. She`s a chronic liar. She`s engaging in criminal behavior. How is that possible?

HARRY KROP, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: She`s an intelligent woman, but basically an extremely immature woman.


PINSKY: That was Harry Krop last night. He is the forensic psychologist who examined Casey Anthony for the defense. I will have him back with us tomorrow.

He struck a nerve with a lot of you. And trust me, I`ve got a bunch more questions for that guy. We`re going to try to get to the bottom of it.

But for now, let`s get to the phones.

I`ve got Catherine in Pennsylvania.



I`d like to say that I found it strange that Casey Anthony agreed to have the forensic psychologist, Harry Krop, speak publicly about her. He stated that he didn`t see the same Casey as in the jail videos, but he didn`t he realize that she was saying what he wants to hear?

PINSKY: Well, he`s a psychologist, and he`s supposed to be skeptical about these sorts of things. And he`s a forensic psychologist, so he`s used to dealing with criminals, I would think. So, yes, I would think he would be concerned that he was seeing something that was disingenuous, not the real thing.

But he seemed convinced. He also did testing, which is what I want to find out about tomorrow night. And I want to see what was found in that testing and whether he did the kind of tests to tell us whether Casey was manipulating the tests, which I suspect that`s what Casey`s up to.

Facebook question. Here`s what Amy wants to know. "Is it possible that Casey could have manipulated the psychologist who interviewed her?"

Yes, of course. That for sure is the case. I just need to understand why he`s so convinced of his opinion.

I deal with addicts and alcoholics and people with the kinds of personality disorder that Casey, to me, seems to have. And I`m always astonished at their lying, at the way they can suck me into things. I`m always skeptical of my own opinions because I know how these people are.

I don`t know how he can be so certain.

Here now, another Facebook question. "I`m a big fan, but after seeing your interview with Casey`s psychologist stating that she is normal, is the world crazy?"

Well, I mean, that`s one way of distilling that question down to something basic, I guess. The world seems crazy to me at times, but I like to break down and be a little more specific about it than just that.

We`re going to talk to this guy tomorrow, as I said. I`ve been pushing the producers about this, and we will get more with him and try to get to the bottom of it.

I`ve shared with others of my peers, psychologists and psychiatrists, some of the things that he told me yesterday, and pretty much everyone, all my professional peers, are having the same reaction I am and you are.

Another Facebook from Bart. He says, "In pictures it seems like Casey is more like a sister than a mother. Perhaps why she seemed to not take it too hard when Caylee died."

Well, I guess that`s a case and point of what the psychologist was saying, is that she seemed immature. I think that`s what you were seeing.

And again, immaturity is definitely part of Casey`s profile. But nowhere in the Diagnostic Manual is there something called pathological immaturity. They`re personality constructs, and that`s what I want to try to get to the bottom of with the psychologist.

Tina has a comment. "Casey won`t change her looks because she wants the attention. What do you think, Dr. Drew?"

I think you`re absolutely right. From talking to Tracy McLaughlin (ph), who spent a good deal of time with her in her house, she made that crystal clear to me, that Casey loves the attention and she gets disturbed when she`s not getting it.

All right now. Next, we`ll talk with four parents about the nightmare they experienced after they got the horrific news that their children were in danger.

Stay with us. Very powerful.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea Pia Yates, not guilty by reason of insanity.

RUSTY YATES, EX-WIFE DROWNED THEIR FIVE CHILDREN IN 2001: Yes, Andrea took the lives of our children. That`s the truth, you know? Also, yes, she was insane.

DIENA THOMPSON, DAUGHTER WAS ABDUCTED IN 2000: I love you and I just want you to come home. I just want my baby back. You don`t do this to a little baby and put my baby in the trash like she`s nothing. I don`t want to see another parent feel empty.

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: I want to kill him. I mean, peel the skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. He doesn`t know if Natalee was alive or not when he decided to dispose of her body.

ELIZABETH SMART, KIDNAPPING VICTIM: Just like to express my gratitude to everyone that ever prayed for me, that ever searched for me.

I certainly have moved on with my life and I don`t dwell on it. I have forgiven him.


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: It is every parent`s nightmare, the realization that your child is missing, or worse, that they may never come home again. Tonight, we`re talking with four parents who`ve experienced pain and suffering and how they have turned their anguish around to attempt to help others. They will also address how they`ve had to deal with the media spotlight.

Joining me Beth Holloway, host of the lifetime TV show, "Vanished." Ed Smart is in New York City. Diena Thompson is in Jacksonville, Florida. And Rusty Yates is with us from Houston. We have an all-star lineup here.

Let`s take a look at this interview with Beth Holloway whose daughter Natalee still missing six years after her disappearance on a senior trip to Aruba. The man suspected of killing her is Joran Van Der Sloot who is currently awaiting trial in a Peruvian prison. I hope he is enjoying himself on another murder charge. Watch as Beth responds to a question about Van Der Sloot defaming Natalee.


NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": When you saw this and you heard him refer to her as a bitch and a whore, what was your response?

HOLLOWAY: Nancy, it`s just when I hear Joran talking about her like that, my gosh, you just -- you know, first, you want to come to the TV and I want to kill him. I mean, peel the skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee and look what he`s done to his -- from his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone. I mean, he is just totally, totally dragged us all through hell with him, Mr. Joran Van Der Sloot.


PINSKY: Depravity, Beth. Do you see similarities? We`re going to try to discuss this in the context of Casey Anthony. Do you see similarities between Joran and Casey?

HOLLOWAY: Of course, I do, Dr. Drew. And when you have a parent who has a child that suddenly goes missing and every behavior they display is completely abnormal from what you would see in a parent who is truly searching for the truth and to find their missing loved one. I mean, you cannot help but see that, to me, Casey was doing everything to divert any attention from herself and to place the blame on others. They always, you know, push outside the circle of themselves for the blame.

PINSKY: Now, last May, Elizabeth abductor, Elizabeth Smart`s abductor, Brian David Mitchell, was found guilty of kidnapping and sexual assault and sentenced to life without parole. Just days before Mitchell was sentenced, Elizabeth talked about whether she had forgiven him. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you forgiven him?

SMART: I certainly have moved on with my life, and I don`t dwell on it. I have forgiven him. I have forgiven him. I don`t think that means that I would invite him over to my house to stay, but that is a part of my life that I lived and have been there. And I have a lot in front of me that I haven`t lived yet. So, I`m looking forward to the part that I haven`t lived yet.


PINSKY: I need to correct myself. It was this last May when he was tried or when he was found guilty. Now, Ed, did it surprise you when your daughter forgave Mitchell? Do you think Casey`s family can forgive her?

ED SMART, FATHER OF ELIZABETH SMART: Well, I mean, I think from Elizabeth`s standpoint, she didn`t feel like she could move on with her life and embrace life to its fullest without forgiving him. And, you know, on Casey`s part, I think it`s very, very difficult. You know, fortunately, Elizabeth is back home. She`s there. She`s able to move forward. So, I think that there are different dynamics involved there.

You know, certainly, looking at Casey and her lack of caring about her daughter, I just think that it would be very difficult for the family to get back together and move forward. And, I don`t know. Everyone has their own journey, and their own journey is very different, but, you know, I hope for her sake that she can realize what, you know, what she did whether it was a lack of caring on her part for her daughter.

I mean, I just kind of felt like when I heard initially what happened, I thought, well, you know, why didn`t she just put her up for adoption, give her away rather than apparently not caring? Just not really caring about her daughter. So, at least, that`s part I think that --

PINSKY: I was saying to you, that`s usually what happens, but I want to take this back again to you for a second here in this Mitchell character. Have you forgiven him? This is father to father here. This guy is a depraved person who -- I`m angry. Aren`t you angry at him? I`d have trouble forgiving him.

SMART: You know, I certainly was very angry, initially. I`m still disgusted. I can`t believe that he did it. But, you know, I think that you can hold on to these things for life and make your life miserable. So, I think, you know, looking back on it, I certainly don`t want to see him get out, because I believe that he would do the same thing again.

Does that mean that I haven`t forgiven him? I don`t believe so. I mean, I have forgiven him, I think. And I hope, at some point, that he realizes what he did was absolutely wrong. And, you know --

PINSKY: That is wishful thinking.


PINSKY: That`s wishful thinking, my friend. This idea --

SMART: I hope, at some point, he does.

PINSKY: Well, the idea of repeating the behaviors -- Beth, I want to go to you. The man believe (ph) responsible for Natalee`s disappearance ended up in a Peruvian prison where, again, I hope he`s enjoying himself, having been accused of murdering another woman. Do you think Casey is like Joran and that she may repeat the behaviors of the past? What do you think?

HOLLOWAY: What I`ve seen with Joran is, even though, they don`t feel as if they`re being held accountable or responsible for their actions, they tend to always go into a downward spiral. And when I think of Casey, I cannot help see some similarities between Casey and Joran, and that, they`re starving for attention.

And if we`re talking about taking a young woman and losing her identity, I mean, what will become of her? I mean, she has no other identity but who she is and the actions that she`s committed in her name. And I think of Joran, he couldn`t have stood to have lost his identity and not have the attention.

PINSKY: You know, it`s funny the Casey Anthony case always takes me to an unpleasant place every time I report on it and looking at the depravity of these perpetrators, I just -- Ed, I`m angry. Beth, I want to tear his face off just like you. I just -- my heart goes out to you guys. we`re going to keep this conversation going.

And when we come back, more of our discussion with families who have lived through the spotlight while enduring a tragedy. And we`re going to learn what they think about Casey Anthony and the verdict and the impact on the Anthony family.


THOMPSON: You didn`t take her from just me. You took her from my family, you took her from all of these people, and you don`t do this to a little baby and put my baby in the trash like she`s nothing.

Watch out. We`re coming. We`re going to get you.


THOMPSON: Maybe, there`s a whole lot more good in the world than there is bad, but that one bad apple has just spoiled a whole lot of people`s lives.




GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Hey, gorgeous, how are you doing?


GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, you know something? You do really need to keep your spirit high for all this.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have. I haven`t been crying while I`ve been in here.


PINSKY: You`re a mother and your child is missing and you`re concerned about your appearance. Really? Tonight, the countdown continues. Casey Anthony gets out of jail in just three days, and she`ll soon have plenty of time to worry about her hair and how she looks. Sadly, all of my guests tonight know first hand about losing a child.

Diena Thompson`s seven-year-old daughter, Summer, was kidnapped and killed on her way home from school. Rusty Yates went through his own horrific ordeal. His wife, Andrea, drowned their five children in a bathtub. Both of these cases, of course, made headlines. Take a look.


THOMPSON: I never thought in all of my life that I would ever have to do this, even know anybody. I don`t want to see another parent feel empty. I will not sleep until this person is found.

YATES: For a long time, she`s blamed herself, and she`s -- you know, it`s been a lot easier for those of us who know and love her to forgive her.


PINSKY: This is how I expect the mother and a husband to react in tragic circumstances. I`m going to go straight to my guests. Beth Holloway is still joining me from Birmingham, Alabama. Ed Smart is in New York tonight. Diena Thompson in Jacksonville, Florida, and Rusty Yates in Houstin. Diena, I want to start with you. As you watch the Anthony unfold, and I know you`re kind of an expressive person, so I really want you to let me have it here. How surprised were you with the verdict?

THOMPSON: I was shocked. Overwhelmed. Scared.

PINSKY: Scared? In what sense?

THOMPSON: Scared that, I, you know, have a case coming up, and wow. I didn`t feel like all those verdicts were right. And so, what could that mean for me?

PINSKY: Now, the first 48 hours are, obviously, the most important when we`re trying to find a missing person. Let`s take look at the difference between Diena`s -- I mean, Diena, my heart was -- my heart breaks every time I here these please to have her daughter return home safely, and then, Casey wanting Caylee to come home. Take a look at this difference.


THOMPSON: I love you, and I just want you to come home. I just want you to come home. Just drop her of somewhere. I don`t care if you ever get in trouble. I just want my baby back.

CASEY ANTHONY: My only concern is that Caylee comes back to us, and she`s smiling and she`s happy and that she`s OK.


PINSKY: It is so different when I see this footage of Beth and Diena. I can barely watch the footage. Diena, what are your thoughts when you see Casey in that video?

THOMPSON: I don`t even know what to say about her. Like I said, I guess, she`s good at her craft, and her craft is lying, and she`s mastered it. And she`s pulled the wool over a lot of people`s eyes.

PINSKY: That`s right. She knew -- it`s pretty clear wouldn`t you say -- and I`d ask the same question to Beth for you, guys. It`s pretty clear watching that footage she knew the child was dead at that point. That is not a mother who`s desperate to have her child returned.


PINSKY: No. Not at all.

THOMPSON: I mean, why wouldn`t you be screaming right then? I would have been screaming even if they had put me in jail, you know, even if they had thought it was me. I would have still been screaming, you know?

PINSKY: Beth, you agree with that?

HOLLOWAY: Oh, absolutely. And you can see that Casey had already actually disconnected herself from Caylee because she implicated the nanny, and so, placing somebody else who is the last person known she`d be seeing with her daughter alive. So, I feel she had already, as I said, disconnected herself from her daughter, at that point.

PINSKY: I agree with you. Rusty, I want to ask you this. Does the pain ever end? I mean, can you describe, for instance, what Cindy and George might be feeling?

YATES: Well, you know, I guess, the pain, you know, lessens over time. I mean, it`s excruciating at first. You know, when you first learn that you lost your child. I guess, you go into shock and disbelief, and you know, it`s really key, I think, to be surrounded, you know, by friends and family for a long time. I mean, you know, during that time, you really learn who your friends are, who cares about you, and just sticking close to those people is, you know, really a key.

PINSKY: And your circumstance is so different than the Casey Anthony situation. I want to clarify this for people. In Andrea`s case, when a mother`s killed her children, this is the more common situation as grotesque as that sounds, but in a psychotic episode, people are disconnected from reality.

Mothers, particularly in postpartum depression and things like that, will do things like this and often walk into the street and report themselves and really have no knowledge of what they were doing. They really are insane in those moments. That`s very different that we`re talking about here with Casey, correct?

YATES: Yes, that`s right. And I think it`s odd, though, in a sense that, you know, I think, we`re all reflecting what we kind of wanted in the criminal trials associated with the loss of our own children, you know, because, you know, my take on the trial is a little different than the others. You know, I wanted Andrea to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, and obviously, I want justice for, you know, Caylee Anthony.

But I -- you know, they have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. I thought they proved she probably did it, but I don`t think they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she did it. So, I thought the verdict was fair and probably in the minority here, but, you know -- and maybe, again, that`s related to my own courtroom experience, but --

PINSKY: Well, let me address that, do you think that, for instance, George got sort of caught into the fray here? Do you think the public was quick to judge both George and Casey?

YATES: It`s amazing to me. You know, when we went through our trial, there was a lot of stuff said that either was just completely false or distorted, misrepresentation of, you know, actually the truth. And people really struggled to understand like in Andrea`s case. It was similar and that people couldn`t understand this. They didn`t know what happened. How could this happen?

And, you know, they`re trying to explain it in terms that they understand. You know, so, they`ll grab on to these things, you know, oh, it was this or this. They home schooled their children, you know, or this. All these factors that really didn`t have a lot to do with the ultimate tragedy. And, you know, but it`s understandable because people try to explain things in terms that they understand, you know? So here in this, you know, Casey Anthony trial, people hear a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

They latch on to it. You know, it relates to something that they`ve experienced before or understand. And, you know, then say that must be it, you know? But I`d say just based on experience in our own case, there`s probably a lot that we don`t understand about that family, about the way she was thinking, who she is, you know? The idea that she can lie so freely. You know, what is that? You know, and where`s that come from, and that she culpable and, you know, it`s --

PINSKY: Well, right. I mean, it`s easier to understand, you know, somebody who has an illness who can disconnect from reality. And I think the public has kind of come to terms with Andrea`s story, but when you see somebody who the psychologists are telling us does not have any mental illness which I got to question that, it`s hard to think of anything other than criminality and something much more sinister.

Live coverage of Casey Anthony is released all week on HLN. More with our panel when we come back.


YATES: For a long time, she`s blamed herself. And she`s -- you know, it`s been a lot easier for those of us who know her and love her to forgive her than it has been for her to forgive herself. And, I think, now, she`s at least hoping that, you know, she`s found not guilty.



PINSKY: Tonight, we`re talking about every parent`s nightmare dealing with the anguish of a missing, or worse, murdered child. Joining me to talk about this and the turmoil surrounding the Casey Anthony case, Beth Holloway, who joins us from Birmingham, Alabama. Ed Smart who`s in New York tonight. Diena Thompson in Jacksonville, Florida, and Rusty Yates with us from Houston.

I want to just ask a general question of all of you, and please, somebody jump in with me on this. What -- and this is a pretty broad question, but I have a feeling you, guys, may have something for us to hang our hat on, which is what do we do with this? How do we make sense of it? You guys have had to make sense of tragedy, you`ve had to make meaning of this. What do we, as a public, do with this story that we`ve been so taken by?

THOMPSON: There`s nothing you can do. I`m sorry, Beth, go ahead.

PINSKY: Beth, go. Beth, go ahead.

HOLLOWAY: Well, I mean, when you think about it, I mean, every tragic event brings about the need for education and change. And it`s unfortunate that a mother could go 31 days without letting anyone know that her daughter was missing. But I mean, it happens time and time again. A horrific event brings about the need for education or change, and that is exactly what is coming out of Caylee`s murder.

PINSKY: We`re going to get a Caylee`s law. I wonder if we get a political movement to improve sort of that whole jury kinds -- change how juries function a little bit. Diena, you have something to say to that question? Go ahead.

THOMPSON: Yes. I was just going to say that there`s really no as much as we, the families, of the victims, you know, I haven`t been through court myself. I know a lot of, you know, some of the others on the panel have, but there`s no -- just like for us, there`s no understanding it because it doesn`t make sense to us of sound mind and body.

So, you just have to deal with it and take it in stride and know that, you know, I honestly believe what goes around comes around. And that`s what I rely on, and a lot of --

PINSKY: I would say I think that is good advice that it does -- in my experience working with people has taught to me that people do tend to do the same things over again. Look at O.J. Simpson, we see eventually that comes down. But I`ll tell you this whole thing creates such passion. I mean, just even hearing your guys` cases, Diena I can`t watch the footage. It`s so painful to watch it.

Beth, I want to tear Joran`s face off. Rusty, I feel so bad that your wife didn`t get proper care. Ed, the depravity of that guy, I just -- it makes me jump out of my own skin. So, it`s natural that we all have almost a -- I don`t know what call of this but almost like a blood lust, you know, for these perpetrators. Is there anything more positive that we can do to channel that? Is there some specific thing we can do, each of us, to try to make something out of this?

YATES: You know, to me, Beth talked about education. And I think with a number of things that are currently happening, there`s this horrible case here in New York. There are so many cases that come up. And, you know, preparing our children certainly, you know, two or three-year-old is difficult to prepare, but I think that there are things that we can do.

You look at this Caylee`s law right now, and I`ve been debating, well, is this a good idea or isn`t this a good idea? What is a felony charge going to do for Casey? Is she going to be in there for maybe a year or maybe let off if that happens be in place at the time? Is it really going to create change? And I have real question about that.

PINSKY: I agree with you and that`s where I started the show tonight. I think we need to think about this. I don`t necessarily want big brother jumping in, but it`s something. The Casey countdown clock -- thank you to my great panel, by the way. Thank you, guys. My heart goes out to each of you every time we have these conversations.