Return to Transcripts main page

Dr. Drew

A Millionaire Developer Accused of Murdering His Wife; Reactions on the Interview Done of Doctor Phil with Casey Anthony`s Parents;

Aired September 15, 2011 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Here we go. A millionaire on trial accused of murdering his wife. Could he, would he have killed the mother of their children?

Plus, on of Doctor Conrad Murray`s patients joins us here. Wait until you hear her take on his relationship with Michael Jackson.

And a drug smuggler that faked his death tells us how he did it and why. Is he crazy or crazy like a fox? Let`s get started.

Tonight in the very same Orlando courtroom that Casey Anthony was tried, another murder trial is set to begin and this time it is a Florida millionaire real estate developer, James Robert "Bob" Ward. He`s accused of shooting his wife Diane in the face of the bedroom of their palatial (ph) mansion in September 2009.

The real estate tycoon has pleaded not guilty to secondary murder, and claims it was an accident. That he was trying to stop his wife from killing herself. But then he reached for the gun. Sounds like a scene from the musical "Chicago." There`s a 911 call in which Bob admits he shot his wife. Police say he changed his story a few times. He`s in the right courtroom. And his behavior behind bars has been very strange to say the least. Watch this then we will talk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Millionaire developer bob ward is accused of killing his wife Diane. September 21st, 2009. Ward calls 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (via telephone): What`s your emergency?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once at the police station, his story changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diane ward was killed by a single gunshot wound as she struggled with her husband over a loaded gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says that his wife was trying to kill herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It as Bob Ward that shot her almost dead between the eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know how you`re supposed to act if you`re arrested falsely.

WARD: I just would like to get out of this nasty cell.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll definitely get on housekeeping for that.


PINSKY: Attorneys were having a hard time picking jurors because so many in Orlando heard about the case and already formulated opinions. Joining me, Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of HLN`s "Issues", Mark Eiglarsh, former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney and jury consultant and body language expert, Susan Constantine.

Jane, the jury has been seated. We heard opening statements today. What is the biggest single thing the state has going for it?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, HLN ISSUES: Well, the trajectory of the bullet does not point to suicide. The bullet wound was in the left side of the nostril, and according to prosecutors, anywhere from six to 18 inches away, which would make it darn hard for someone to kill themselves that way. The residue shows that the barrel of the gun was not on the victim`s face, so there`s that. And you have the very bizarre demeanor of the defendant who has been described as jovial after the shooting of both driving to the jail, discussing things like football, and then inside the jail literally doing a fake striptease, laughing, jumping around, dancing. A very bizarre behavior for a man who is supposed to be mourning the unexpected death of his wife.

PINSKY: Jane, is there any information about pre-existing psychiatric records? He sounds like a manic patient, like hype oh manic. Is there anything out there, anybody talking about that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what people are talking about is that under the surface of their very wealthy, country club life-style, there were severe financial problems. His huge mansion was going to foreclosure. He had a bankruptcy. He had been allegedly complaining to friends that his wife was spending too much money. So., there`s all of that. And also, a couple of women from his past have indicated that he had a big temper problem.

PINSKY: Now this, from ABC`s good morning America. Bob is telling Diane`s sister he`s going to get through this and doesn`t want to replace Diane. Diane`s sister says to shut it up, stop talking. Watch this.


WARD: My attitude right now is very good. I`m very up. I`m very hopeful. I feel like this thing is going to turn out the way it should turn out. I know when the facts come out that they`ll understand what happened and I think it`s going to be fine. Course, I`ll never replace Diane, don`t want to replace her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t get into any details, Bob. Everything here is recorded. So don`t, let`s not go there, OK?


PINSKY: Wow. This is the right courtroom to be in for this case. A lot of flipping and flopping. I recognize the pictures from what we have been watching in Casey Anthony`s case. Susan, Diane`s sister is telling bob not to talk on tape. Do you have any take on this conversation?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT AND BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: No, I didn`t really watch that conversation but I did see the jail house rock video from the very beginning and I observed his behavior in the courtroom as the jury selection was proceeding forward.

You know, he`s a real great performer. One of the things you said was, you know was he manic. You know, in that video from the jailhouse rock, you know not only was his demeanor awkward, so was his daughter`s. I mean, she sat in that chair with her legs slightly separated and gyrating as if she was doing a striptease dance. You know, it was very strange.

But you know, inside that courtroom he scares as manic, he is likeable, he`s trying to connect, making good eye contact with the jurors. He is shaking hands with the bailiffs. He is putting his arm around one of the bailiffs, and then shook the hands of one of the other reporters, like you know, hey, we`re all just buddies here.

You know, he`s a really great performer. You can tell that he is very seasoned, entrepreneur using all those persuasion skills and he`s going to use it in this court trial and throughout the court trial. He`s trying to run the courtroom and he`s playing them like a fiddle.

PINSKY: Now, from ABC`s GOOD MORNING AMERICA, here is Bob Ward talking to police in the interrogation room about his wife`s death as a tragic accident, then asks for a lawyer right away.


WARD: It was an accident. And I will tell you more about it later, but you know it was a very tragic accident. Very concerned about my wife and children now. I have two kids in college.


WARD: This nightmare. We probably need to go ahead and get the lawyer in here.


PINSKY: Well, Mark, Bob is also quoted as saying she`s dead, she`s done, I`m sorry. If you`re Bob`s attorney, does that tape hurt the defense?

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If that tape is something that I`m dealing with, it`s not coming into evidence. I`m letting you know if that tape comes into evidence, this case assuming there`s conviction will come back on appeal. It is 101 in lawyer-ing (ph) that when someone is invoking the right to an attorney, that portion of the tape gets taken out or not shown to the jurors. For sure that`s not coming in.

PINSKY: Do you think that`s something this guy knew in a premeditated manner as he having this conversation with police?

EIGLARSH: It is possible. But I mean here is a guy who on the 911 tape, right when this thing happened, I shot her. I shot her. Five times he says that. Plus he has the motive because apparently she, the deceased, was about to give a big bombshell in a deposition about how he was mishandling his company`s money, living a lavish life-style. So he has got the motive. He says spontaneously who shot her, and now apparently it is her shooting herself.

PINSKY: Jane, I want to go back to you. You raise this issue of the distance of the gun from the woman`s face. Is it possible she had the gun, you know, turned towards her it was holding it like two hands? You know what I mean?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: it`s not very likely. And Doctor Drew, another huge factor here is alcohol. She had alcohol and antidepressants in her system. They found several bottles in the trash. They found a bottle that was three-quarters full on a counter. So, I think you`ve got to bring alcohol and drugs into the mix. It`s usually there when tragedy strikes in this kind of fashion.

And what`s interesting is that this defendant, Bob Ward said a couple of things. He said, oh, I shot her. Then he said I don`t know what happened. Then he said it was a suicide. And then he said that he was trying to stop her from committing suicide. So what`s interesting is the cops did not charge him with first degree premeditated murder with malice aforethought. They charged him with secondary murder, killing for which there is no justification or excuse.

So in a way, you kind of wonder if he sort of is massaging the truth and there was some kind of confrontation going on in there, and then prosecutors believe he kind of Pops her, and then kind of acts euphoric. It`s almost like in the video tapes, he can`t contain his euphoria.

PINSKY: Bizarre.

EIGLARSH: Drew, let me add one thing.

PINSKY: I want to ask you, before you do, Mark, I want to frame it for you. And that is you told me before we went on the air that you`re familiar with the musical "Chicago." And to me it sounds like I mean she had the gun, he reached for the gun. Show me the old razzle-dazzle, Mark. Take this case and show me the razzle-dazzle. What are you going to do with it?

EIGLARSH: Well, first of all, like you know unlike the show or movie, I haven`t been paid, so I have no razzle for you. That`s part of the show. But one thing, I`ll get to the defense side. What they want to add to what Jane was saying, there`s got to be the medical examiner testifying. And this is something I didn`t realize that typically when women commit suicide, they typically do not shoot themselves in the face as are the facts here.

PINSKY: They typically, they typically don`t use a gun actually. They use pills, they do other things, hanging, but the gun is more the male approach. But they can though, it is not impossible.

EIGLARSH: So did I delay long enough so I don`t have to answer or come up with a defense?

PINSKY: Yes, you did.

Next, more about Bob Ward`s strange antics behind bars. Is this the behavior of a broken hearted husband or cold-blooded killer? Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your opinion?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That he`s guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is your opinion?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. My opinion is that he is guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you set aside that opinion and hear the evidence in this case and decide the case based on only the evidence?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not think I can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just kind of shocked that he was let out. I guess what caught my attention about the case is I find it very sad for the daughters.


PINSKY: I think I recognize that court reporter from Casey Anthony`s case, as a matter of fact. Welcome back.

Those were prospective jurors talking about millionaire developer, Bob Ward`s trial that started today in the very same courtroom where we saw Casey Anthony get tried. Can he get a fair trial in Orlando? His strange behavior behind bars has been well documented now. And that can hurt his chances in trial? Was this a murder or an accident?

Jane, that clip we saw of the jurors saying they heard about the case, can someone who knows about the trial be a fair and impartial juror? It seems like everybody know something about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the, wow! The whole story with Casey Anthony seems to be coming back to this very same area, the same themes, Doctor Drew, because this is another huge scandal that everybody is chattering about. Isleworth is an exclusive area. He was in a big mansion. This is an area where gulf superstars live. And everybody is talking about this. His wife was a socialite.

So, there`s a gossip element like there was with Casey Anthony case. And can people set all that aside and be objective? Well, that`s what they hope because that`s what our entire criminal justice system is based on.

PINSKY: Here is another video from ABC`s GOOD MORNING AMERICA. Bob`s daughter tells her dad there is money in an account for a bra and hemorrhoid cream. Bizarre. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s money in the account for you to get stuffs there. There are all sorts of goodies. You can buy a bra. So I think you know you would enjoy that, and a hemorrhoid cream.


PINSKY: Susan, Diane Ward was a mother, sister, and wife. Everyone close to her in jailhouse tapes seems to be acting in a light hearted, almost bizarre manner. What do you make of this?

CONSTANTINE: Well, you know, people grieve in different ways, but I don`t find this grieving at all. And here what we`re getting back to the whole Casey Anthony trial. There`s really no, no authentic grieving, concern, empathy, from the very beginning, you know. Even with the first videos that were shown, and of course, living here in Orlando, I saw it captivated my attention.

And from right then the daughter and father are gyrating around, joking around, talking about the bra and hemorrhoid cream as if nothing happened. In fact, she did say if you go back to old tapes, she says you know, this kind of made a kink in our plans, you know.

So there`s no empathy there. I don`t get it. you know in the courtroom you get the same thing. He has this very surely kind of duping delight smile as if he`s getting enjoyment, he`s getting you know getting off on it. He`s enjoying all of the attention that he`s getting.

He`s not grieving at all. But you know, the really odd thing is, he`s wearing the wedding ring. He`s wearing the wedding ring. And so he`s trying to set the stage and he`s play acting this performer that he`s this great husband, he`s, you know, empathetic, but you know, I`m not buying it because I don`t find that it is true and felt. It is all a performance.

PINSKY: You know, I was just thinking about I haven`t seen my daughter in a while, she`s away in college. If her opening to me was this, I would have concerns. I mean that is bizarre. It makes me put on my medical hat again, bipolar disorder, not to despair anybody with that condition, but it dos have a familiar pattern to it. I wondered if that`s what we are seeing here. Go ahead Susan, finish that.

CONSTANTINE: It` just their body language and their communication and the conversation itself, it is all inappropriate. It just doesn`t fit. And what I see that the puzzle doesn`t fit, I smell something bad.

PINSKY: No, no, no. You have to make it rhyme. If the glove does not fit, you must acquit. If the puzzle doesn`t fit, I don`t know. But you guys figure it out. Jane, finish your thought.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I was going to say that I think it`s very significant that the victim had alcohol and antidepressants in her system, which you`re not supposed to mix, that there were all of these empty wine bottles. Perhaps she had a drinking problem. And we all know living with somebody that has an alcohol and or drug problem is very depressing, creates a lot of rage, and you eventually become bitter and stop caring.

So in a sense, the fact that it`s not just the defendant but the daughter of the victim and even her sister, they`re all happy. So you`ve got to wonder, was this woman a problem.

PINSKY: Mark, finish that thought.

EIGLARSH: Jane makes a good point. As a defense lawyer, I am moving to exclude any of these jailhouse interviews. They`re compelling. What the judge would do is balance probative value versus prejudicial effect. Obviously they`re very prejudicial and don`t necessarily prove all that much, especially in light of what Jane was saying, merely because he has the absence of kind of sadness doesn`t necessarily mean anything. It doesn`t mean that somehow he did anything to kill her. That`s what I would argue.

PINSKY: And Mark, you have been coaching me a few months on the legal system. How am I doing? Truth doesn`t matter, justice doesn`t exist. And you have to makeup rhymes to get your case dismissed, yes? I`m good?

EIGLARSH: I would stick to the medical arena.


EIGLARSH: No, not so good.

PINSKY: Just checking.

Jane, should the defense be concerned about a possible Casey Anthony back lash?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that their primary concern should be resentment of the high flying business developer who kind of acts like he`s the boss in any situation, even when he`s talking to the cops. Well, I hate to say it, but we should get a lawyer in here. He`s very flip and he`s a little condescending. And I think in his head he may have a misconception that kind of like Warren Jeffs that whatever he says goes, no matter what. And remember what the judge in Warren Jeffs` case said to Warren Jeffs. You may not be able to appreciate this, sir, but you are out of control here.

PINSKY: Thank you again to my panel, Susan. Go ahead Mark, last thought? Quick.

EIGLARSH: I think there is going to be back lash. I think people want justice and they are going to lean over to the prosecution side so just they can find someone guilty. I wouldn`t want to go to trial at this point.

PINSKY: I thought we established justice is not to be found a court of law. Isn`t that what you taught me? OK. Just kidding.

EIGLARSH: Well, something like that.

PINSKY: OK, guys thank you very much. Thank you to Mark Eiglarsh, Susan Constantine and Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Your reactions to George and Cindy Anthony`s interview, our next. Can you say laborious (ph)? Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your theory is that she is a victim in this in some way, a victim of an illness, a tumor, or something.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I truly believe that, because there was never any sign that Casey was an unfit mother. She was an awesome mother.


PINSKY: George and Cindy Anthony were on the Doctor Phil show this week revealing their doubts about Casey, but seemingly tried to explain away her strange behavior up to and after Caylee`s death. We posted this poll question on our Web site today.

Do you think Cindy Anthony is in denial about Casey possibly having killed Caylee? Listen to this.

Ninety two percent of you said, yes. Only five percent of you said, no. And just three percent of you said you were unsure. Wow. Casey Anthony can really count in this population. I don`t know how get 92 percent of people to agree on anything. Casey Anthony, good job.

Let`s hear more of what you have to say.

April in Ohio, you`re up first. Go ahead.

APRIL, CALLER, OHIO: Hi, Doctor Drew.

PINSKY: Hi, April.

APRIL: I want to say that the sad part of the story aside from Caylee Anthony being gone is that this family will suffer forever. They can`t go out to dinner or go shopping or go on vacation without someone noticing them.


APRIL: There`s nothing they can do. And there`s no way to hide from all of the torment that they`ll have to endure the rest of their lives.

PINSKY: Well, you`re right. I mean, but I can only imagine that whatever torment that they feel going out in public does not even - it pales by comparison to the torment of having lost a granddaughter.

But like I said all the way through the run of that trial, Casey Anthony created a vortex. This woman is capable of creating chaos in a vortex that sucks in a lot of people, effects a lot of lives.

Gillian in Canada. Go ahead there.


PINSKY: Hi, Gillian.

GILLIAN: I want to say I am flabbergasted by denial, deflection, deception, ducking and wheezing of a nurse and policeman. I mean, do we really wonder where Casey learned to lie?

PINSKY: Well, that`s an interesting observation. We know that Cindy lied on the witness stand apparently at least, so you`re right, there could be some environmental influences there. But you know there`s a bigger theory emerging that she had a brain disorder that made her really unable to know fact from fiction, at least that`s their perception of what was going on. It is possible.

And our question always was why didn`t they - if she was so sick, why didn`t they intervene, why did they let her parent? My goodness.

On facebook, Samantha writes. Casey had a psych evaluation, didn`t she? Wouldn`t they have found things that Cindy suggested such as postpartum?

Yes, that`s absolutely true. And the fact if you remember a few weeks back, I actually spoke to the psychiatrist that was evaluating her on the way out. And he said the only thing he could find was narcissistic personality traits or that sort of spectrum of disorder which goes without saying.

Now, we`re hearing these neurobiological theories that she may have had a brain disorder and she does fit that kind of profile. But you`re absolutely right. Why didn`t the psychiatrists pick that up, why wasn`t more made of it? It`s very difficult to understand.

Next, her doctor stands accused in Michael Jackson`s death. But she says no way, Conrad Murray is not a killer. She`s breaking her silence. She will be with us. Stay with us. We will be right back.


DOCTOR CONRAD MURRAY, SUSPECT IN KILLING MICHAEL JACKSON: I want to thank all my patients and friends who sent such kind e-mails, letters and messages to let me know of your support and prayers for me and my family. I have not been able to thank you personally, which I do know is not normal to me. The messages give me strength and courage and keep me going.


PINSKY (voice-over): Dr. Conrad Murray on trial for manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson. Many have already decided he`s guilty, but I`m talking to a patient who paints a very different picture. Is the wrong message getting out or is this just a defense strategy to garner sympathy for a guilty man?

And later, move over, Makia Belly (ph), John Boyd night through coastal waters as a drug smuggler in 1970s. He lived to tell about it, died to cover it up, and came back to utter these rare words, I faked my own death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being a doctor, you take an oath to care for your patient, not to kill them.


PINSKY (on-camera): That is true. And Dr. Conrad Murray, accused of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson, he`s been vilified in the press and by the King of Pop`s fans. But not everyone feels he is directly responsible. Donna DiGiacomo was Dr. Murray`s patient for five years. Now, tonight, as jury selection continues in his trial, Donna would like to set the record straight about a man she calls a loving soul, and Donna is with us on the phone now. Hello, Donna.


PINSKY: Hi there. I`ve also got Judge Greg Mathis. He is the presiding of the syndicated court TV show, "Judge Mathis." All right. Now, on June 15th, 2009, Dr. Murray sent Donna and other patients a letter. What they didn`t know is that he was leaving them to work for Michael Jackson.

Now, in part, his letter read, quote, "because of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I had to make a most difficult decision to cease practice of medicine indefinitely. Over the years, I have come to know you both as patients and as friends. I`m deeply saddened to leave you, but please know my absence is not permanent." Ten days after that letter was written, the King of Pop was dead. Donna, I want to go to you first, how did you react when you received this letter from Dr. Murray?

DIGIACOMO: Well, actually, I got the letter after I had been told. I had gone to see him in his office, and he had said he was going away for awhile. I had received it right after I had seen him. And so, I wasn`t shocked when I saw the letter. I had saw it when I had gone to the office for a visit. I spoke with him. And I just started crying. I just -- was overwhelmed. I couldn`t even believe.

PINSKY: I have heard other people say that he was an excellent cardiologist, OK?


PINSKY: You know, I have a couple questions for you. One is, I`ve heard that you said he was somebody very conservative with medication, and so, he`s not, you know, a pusher of drugs the way some people are making him out to be in your opinion, and should he have gotten himself in this position, do you think? You know, taking care of a guy that was taking a lot of drugs?

DIGIACOMO: Yes. Well, you know, it`s funny because like you said, he`s a very compassionate, loving person, a loving man, aside from a great doctor. And he loved people, and people loved him. And I`m not -- I don`t know that when he took on this job until he got right into it did he realize the extent of, you know, drugs that Michael was on until he was presented with like a list of his previous, you know, drug orders from previous doctors.

PINSKY: I understand. My criticism has always been is, why didn`t he ask for help from other professionals, because by yourself, you`re over your head with a case like this, but let me say this. Dr. Murray thanked his patients and supporters in this video released by his attorneys in August 2009. Watch this.


DR. CONRAD MURRAY, PHYSICIAN OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I want to thank all of my patients and friends who have sent such kind e-mails, letters, and messages to let me know of your support and prayers for me and my family. I have not been able to thank you personally, which as you know is not normal for me.

Your messages give me strength and courage and keep me going. Please, don`t worry. As long as I keep God in my heart and you in my life, I will be fine. I told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail.


PINSKY: Judge Mathis, he seems like a fairly compassionate guy. His patients love him. Are these things that you think are going to be presented in court, are we going to hear from his patients? Is he going to get on the stand? Would you put him on the stand?

JUDGE GREG MATHIS, PRESIDING JUDGE, "JUDGE MATHIS": Well, going in reverse, no, I wouldn`t put him on the stand. In most instances, defense attorneys do not put their clients on the stand because they are easily tripped up by professionals who`ve been trained to trip you up and that being lawyers, in most instances. But, in desperate situations, lawyers might put their clients on the stand.

Now, with regard to him being the testimony of former clients and those who know of his compassion bringing that up in court and serving as character witnesses, it absolutely would help him with regard to painting him as a compassionate person versus a monster in which some might, otherwise, want to paint of him. But I think you`ll have a jury that`s smart enough to look through all of it.

PINSKY: Well, Judge Mathis, I know that, you know, the fans consider him a monster no matter what you say about him. They are very clear about that. Even when I just try to understand the case and reason the way through it, anybody doing, including myself, gets attacked on Twitter and social media and what not.

But, my question is, is the fact that he seems like a compassionate guy, that he has a good relationship, good track record and good relationship with patients, and that he doesn`t have a history of overusing medication, is that, you know, do you have to build a case of this guy being an egregious outlier to get a conviction or could it just be that he was in over his head and had some lapses of judgment, and that does that make it criminal?

MATHIS: Well, involuntary manslaughter by definition he did not have to intend to cause any harm to Michael or he did not do it with knowledge that he was causing harm. All it requires is that you committed an act, unintentionally, that resulted in death, and it may once again have been that he thought he was doing right, but he committed an act, a wrongful act.

That`s the part of the definition I left out, a wrongful act, and certainly, some would suggest that it was wrong to treat him with propofol at the home, which I think is discouraged, if not, considered unethical by the medical community. So, I think the wrongful act is what the problem might be.

PINSKY: Yes. Judge, it`s not unethical, it`s bizarre. It`s something that you would never want to put yourself in that situation of using -- it`d be like using, you know, anesthetic gas without the proper monitoring equipment. It`s almost that outlying of a behavior. Just like why would you put yourself in that position?

Why not get an anesthesiologist in there and put him -- whatever you do. But my question, judge, to you is, do you have a take on this case? Do you think he`s going to get convicted?

MATHIS: Well, if it is, in fact, proven, because I could not make any presumptions not hearing all the facts and evidence as a judge, I have to be fair, but if it is proven that Michael was -- his death was as a result of Dr. Murray performing a wrongful act at the home in administering that medication, and it is a fact that -- or if it is a fact that the American Medical Association advises that it not be performed at home or if it`s unethical, or indeed, if it`s illegal to administer propofol at home, then that is a wrongful act which resulted in death, which should result in a conviction.

But, I am not certain that that wrongful act was committed until I see the facts. But if that is the case, then I think he`ll be convicted.

PINSKY: Now, donna, thank you, judge. And Donna, I want to turn to you. Last year, Dr. Murray had dinner at your home. Can you give us insight into his demeanor? Was he hopeful, happy, quiet? And again, this was after the death, right?

DIGIACOMO: Yes, it was. He was trying to stay positive and trying to keep me positive, because he was getting a lot of backlash at that time from the press and from the Michael Jackson`s fans who don`t really know this man, and it`s really hard when you don`t know him, this doctor.

And you have come to know him like I have, and trust him, and know how much he loves people. He would have become a friend of his and would have tried to help him and tried to make him, you know, talk to him on his own and try to help him wean down.

PINSKY: But Donna, that`s my concern. You don`t treat a patient that`s on those kinds of medications by convincing them and talking to them and being gentle, and weaning them. There`s a very -- you have to have a very aggressive team approach to managing somebody like that and keeping that person safe and developing a plan.

I think he got in over his head. You know, I`m not sure, you know, if a cardiologist should be managing a complex case like this. Last words for you, what do you want people to know about Dr. Murray?

DIGIACOMO: OK. I want people to know that he is a compassionate man. He loves his patients. He`s not worried about -- he was never worried about payment or anything. I`ve seen him many times, and he runs clinics in Texas where he doesn`t even charge half the people. His patients` interests are usually come, you know, first and, you know, he would do nothing. I believe he would have done nothing to have harmed or to kill Michael Jackson.

PINSKY: You`re entitled to that, Donna and thank you judge for joining us. Judge Mathis, as well, for your opinion.

Now, gangster, reptile, drug smuggling, and deceive (ph). That`s just part of our next guest story, because he also faked his own death. It`s coming up.


PINSKY: I think we all know the old saying crime doesn`t pay. So, why would a criminal fake his own death? Watch this.


PINSKY (voice-over): He was one of Miami`s most notorious drug smugglers, John Darrell Boyd and his partner in crime, brother, Tracy Boyd.

JOHN C. BOYD, DRUG SMUGGLER WHO FAKED OWN DEATH: My brother and myself didn`t do drugs. We didn`t smoke pot. We didn`t snort coke. We didn`t do any of that stuff. This was a business to us.

PINSKY: The mid 1970s, the brothers quit their jobs in construction and became real life gangsters. Soon, the Boyd drug smuggling business was raking in millions of dollars.

BOYD: Walked into a Cadillac dealership with a suitcase full of money, bought two Cadillacs with cash, walked down, and drove the cars away.

PINSKY: The boys were living the good life as explained Discovery Channel special airing this coming Saturday. The good life had an ugly side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors finally have enough to press charges that will stick. They include the importation of drugs and conspiracy to commit murder.

BOYD: I`m going to prison, and I may never come out. So, I decided to get killed in the Everglades.

PINSKY: Finally, he staged the crime scene to appear as though he was killed and fed to the crocodiles, and then, he disappeared.


PINSKY (on-camera): Was this a perfect crime? Well, here to fill in the details is John Boyd, himself. Once a real life gangster who even made the cover of "Time" magazine. He now lives in South Florida. Now, John, you were a big time drug dealer who fled to Buffalo, leaving behind a wife and family. Did they believe you were dead or did they understand what you were up to?

BOYD: Well, my wife knew what I was going to do. She did not know where I was going, what I was doing, how I was doing it, and my children were too young at the time. So, they weren`t really involved, but they actually did think, at one point in time, that I was dead, I believe.

PINSKY: How old were your children at that point?

BOYD: Two and a half, 10, and 14 maybe.

PINSKY: A 10 and a 14-year-old aren`t old enough to know that their father is dead?

BOYD: Well, they only knew what they heard maybe on the television or heard people talking. They were not informed of what I was doing by me or by my wife. And I basically kept everybody at arm`s length, and I kind of pulled the strings, like a puppeteer, but nobody knew what each other were doing. They couldn`t tell on themselves.

They couldn`t tell on me. Nobody who helped me in the entire operation faking my death really knew what the other people were doing. I was the only one who was aware of the whole plan.

PINSKY: And here`s more from the Discovery Channel special on Saturday. Where you, I guess, talk to your son about leaving, and then fleeing to Buffalo, supposedly dead.


BOYD: I hugged and kissed my kids, which was very, very traumatizing, especially I couldn`t tell my son what the hell I was doing. He really wasn`t told what was going on until much later. He really thought his dad was dead.


PINSKY: Were you concerned about your family and what they were going to feel with daddy dead?

BOYD: Absolutely. Anybody who does such a thing, there`s always collateral damage, and there`s always the people closest to you, your family, friends, mom, dad. Nobody really knew what I was doing, but several of my friends who helped me actually get out of the state of Florida.

PINSKY: Now, John, once in Buffalo with your family, your life seemed to many as normal. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boyd`s drug running days are over, but the money still exists.

BOYD: I had accounts set up in the Cayman Islands. When I needed money, I was getting dividend checks and I just had them sent to buffalo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boyd also begins to transfer funds to his parents in an effort to payback the half million they lost when he jumped bail.


PINSKY: John, even with a clean start, did you really figure that you could sort of funnel drug money for your use and send money to your parents and not get caught?

BOYD: Well, the game plan was to stay gone long enough until everything dissipated and kind of smoothed out. And then, at one point in time, we figured we would turn ourselves in. My brother was already on the run, and I went two years after he did. And we figured at one point in time we could put it all together, make a deal to surrender, and then be able to come out of it all and lead a regular life again.

PINSKY: Now, now --

BOYD: At the time we were in so much trouble, it just wasn`t going to work the way it was going.

PINSKY: Two things. My understanding is that you sort of committed sort of Medicare fraud or insurance fraud or something like that even after you got back up there, but, I guess, around the same time, you were also leading kind of a normal life. You were a soccer dad and sort of taking care of your family. How did you reconcile these two lives?

BOYD: It was a very easy transformation for me. I went from doing what I was doing in the mid 1970s. We actually quit our operation in 1977, 1978, and I wound up going to federal prison in 1978, and I got out on bond, and then, we still -- I still had a lot of legal problems. That`s when I decided to, basically, fake my death and go somewhere else with my family and start all over again for a certain time period.

I wasn`t going forever. If that`s the way it turned out, yes, I would have. But, hopefully, we could do just like it worked out, and I could reconcile everything with the lawyers and make a deal with the feds and come back.

PINSKY: One last question, John. Have you gone through some sort of a transformation or spiritual awakening as sometimes people do? How do I know you`re not the same criminal that has been operating for the last -- certainly operated for decades?

BOYD: Well, we actually only had about a four year run in the 1970s, and after going on the run, going to federal prison, and coming out, I didn`t get a traffic ticket for 30 years afterwards.

PINSKY: You didn`t do -- no Medicare fraud, no insurance fraud, no running medical clinics?

BOYD: That?

PINSKY: Oh, yes, that.

BOYD: No, no. No. No.


BOYD: That`s not right.

PINSKY: When was that going on?

BOYD: Uh, I -- somewhere around 2002.


BOYD: We started having problems with the Medicaid fraud control unit, and it wound up that my ex-partner went and made a deal, and they said if I was to tell -- if he was to tell them that I just had knowledge of what he was doing, they would come after me and leave him alone, and that`s exactly what he did.

PINSKY: All right. We`ve got more with John Boyd next. Stay with us.



BOYD: It turned out to be one hell of an adventure, and ultimately, destroyed our families and us, and we all went to prison, and would I want to do it again? If I wasn`t married and had kids, yes.


PINSKY: Welcome back. John Boyd, a notorious drug smuggler, faked his own death by creating an elaborate crime scene in the middle of the Everglades. He staged a gun battle that cleverly led investigators to believe that he`d been eaten by alligators, then he got caught. Now, John, you had a few good years with your family in Buffalo. Are you close to your family still today?

BOYD: Yes. Actually, my son is here with me tonight, and I`m quite close to my family. We come from a big Irish family, and everybody is pretty tight.

PINSKY: Do they resent or are they angry or you had to process to some of those feelings to get this point or did they all just -- they`ve all just left that all behind?

BOYD: No. There was nothing ever like that. The transformation from what we were doing in the 1970s to going to Buffalo on the run, I just became a normal guy with a wife and couple of kids, and I was the little league coach. I had a lot of friends. I had people up there who knew me for years and that was kind of my -- I had a home base of people who cared about me, anyway, so I went to buffalo.

It was just fine. There was no big recrimination or anything else. We just had different names and when our friends accepted that and we just went about our business. I was a soccer dad, baseball dad or whatever you want to call it.

PINSKY: Is it safe to say that those were the best years? Those are the good years?

BOYD: The two years in Buffalo? No. There`s always collateral damage, with my family, with my mom and my dad.

PINSKY: I`m saying, is it safe to say that your years as a dad were good and the best years?

BOYD: Oh, yes.


BOYD: That was no problem.

PINSKY: OK. All right, my friend. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.

And a few words before we go, as always. Listen, we are going to talk about John Boyd. We just spoke to who faked his own death. And remember the so-called millionaire murder case that we were talking about earlier? What fascinates us about people who have means and then go off the rails? What that is is that, partially, we don`t expect it.

And here`s what I`m saying. Just because someone is successful, financially or otherwise, doesn`t mean they couldn`t be manipulative, couldn`t be sick, couldn`t have criminal intent. Now, I spent 25 years working in a psychiatric hospital, and one of the first things I noticed is that the very rich and the very poor have more in common with one another than with the rest of us.

It`s really very interesting. Lots of pathology in both populations, lots. So, when we see these off the rail, so to speak, behaviors, it certainly is not limited to impoverished or stressed social strata. We should not think of it that way exclusively. Many of us could be capable of some not so good things. Income and privilege or lack, thereof, may not have that much to do with it, at least, certainly at the extremes it sure doesn`t, seems like that.

And that was my, sort of, what I learned working the psychiatric hospital for many, many years. So, we shouldn`t be so surprised. We shouldn`t be shocked or it shouldn`t be disbelief when we see some of the stories like those we`re looking at tonight.

I want to thank you for watching. We`ll see you next time.