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Dr. Drew
Gruesome: Naked Mom with Knife Arrested; Cops: Guy Hid in Girl`s Closet, Raped Her
Aired May 21, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a naked mother with a knife arrested in the deaths of her three little children. Could she have done it? Social media says she is guilty. But there`s much more to this story.
Plus, a mom says this man, an accused rapist, and the Internet ruined her daughter.
And, Tori and Dean, swingers?
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And welcome.
Samantha Schacher is my co-host.
Coming up, a mom who says the Internet ruined her 14-year-old daughter. A man the girl met through social media is accused of raping the 14-year-old girl. Yet, Sam, it`s the Internet that ruined the daughter.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Of all the stories we`re covering tonight, I have the most to say about that one.
PINSKY: Well, wait until you see where the guy was held up. She was held up in the child`s, the 14-year-old`s closet --
SCHACHER: For days.
PINSKY: -- in her bedroom. Unbelievable story.
But equally unbelievable is what`s coming up now. A mom who shared family photos on Facebook of her three little daughters, this is she right there, she is arrested on suspicion of having slaughtered them. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIEDD FEMALE: A parent killing their own child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear that the mom stabbed three of her kids. Pretty tragic and pretty brutal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deputies made entry into the residence and found three young children dead inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 3-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a little girl who was just 2 months old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say the girl`s father and maternal grandmother who called 911 were outside the home. The mother was inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was naked and holding a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was taken into custody and transported to a local hospital for evaluation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: And according to neighbors, Carol Cornado (ph) called her mom just before the tragedy and told the mom she was going crazy.
Joining us to discuss: Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywood.com, Mark Eiglarsh from speaktomark.com, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of the "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio.
All right. Leeann, you saw the selfie. She looks perfectly fine in that selfie. Go ahead.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: She does. But let`s face it, it`s obvious that she did murder her three children which drives me crazy. A lot of us are parents here on this panel. I think she tried to reach out. I mean, she obviously called the grandmother, her own mother earlier in the day and said, I think I`m going crazy. I mean, the mom did come over.
But there has to be a pattern here. I`m sure this is not the first time. You know, they interviewed one of the kids down the street and he said that she said she felt overwhelmed. I think she has three young kids -- all in a row.
PINSKY: Leeann, I want to take a moment here and really -- let`s make a note, I think Leeann is coming and willing to accept that this woman may have had mental illness, maybe a post-partum depression. Maybe that`s what contributed to this.
TWEEDEN: Quite possibly and feeling overwhelmed. Yes.
PINSKY: Of course overwhelmed. When you`re getting mentally ill, you feel overwhelmed about getting up in the morning many times.
Vanessa, what do you say?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Yes, it`s clear that were some issues. She killed three of her children. I mean, there has to be some issue there. It could be post-partum, it could be mental illness, it could be overwhelmed. She says she was going crazy.
At the end of the day, it is still her responsibility to take care of these children and take care of her mental health. If you can call and say, I think I`m going crazy -- you can get up, you can walk out of that house and you can save these children`s lives. They didn`t have to die.
And just because she posted pictures on Facebook and is hash tagging and think everything is OK, it`s not. Facebook is not real life. Social networking is not real life. And people post what they think you want them to see about their lives, and inside, you don`t know what`s going on.
PINSKY: Well, Mark, Vanessa raises an important here, is that had she spoken up about how she was feeling before she harmed somebody, she may not have done so. And does she have any responsibility? How will the courts look at that?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: OK. In civil court, that may play out.
The issue in criminal court is, number one, did she suffer from a mental defect or disease at the time? And secondly, whether she knew right from wrong.
While I appreciate Vanessa`s frustration and anger which I think most people in America share on some level, if this woman was sick, and I question all of you, who in their right mind would do this? No one.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
EIGLARSH: No question she`s sick.
The second question is, did she know right from wrong at the time? And so far, I haven`t heard one single fact which would suggest knowledge, like her hiding a weapon or her telling someone that I did this because the person was mouthy like that other woman.
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: So far, this may be mental illness all the way. The only other viable defense doesn`t work because Casey Anthony has an alibi.
TWEEDEN: The only thing I find questionable, too, is that she had superficial cut wounds like maybe she was trying to kill herself but she actually didn`t do it.
PINSKY: Maybe.
TWEEDEN: You know what I mean? That kind of bugs me, too.
SCHACHER: And what really concerns me is the father was there. He was outside. He was working on his car. But what type of signs, warning signs would she have hopefully or he would have noticed throughout the day that perhaps were overlooked?
PINSKY: Post-partum psychoses, where also the ones where people do unbelievable acts can come on rather rapidly. But in that situation, sometimes they believe, the mother in the post-partum state can believe they`re rescuing the children by killing them. They`re so disorganized. They`re so out of their mind.
Some of the most bizarre behaviors I`ve ever seen is in women with a post-partum psychosis. I saw a woman eating carpet from standing position, in a locked unit, couldn`t get near her. She was so vile and so wild, and yet throwing water on people because she believed they were on fire. The behavior is nonsensical.
But I have one thing before I go to break, and that is to tell my good friend Mark Eiglarsh -- happy birthday.
SCHACHER: Yay! Happy birthday!
TWEEDEN: Happy birthday, Mark.
BARNETT: Happy birthday.
PINSKY: Some nice softball stories for you to enjoy on your birthday.
And next up, our social media users, particularly on Facebook, have zero sympathy for this woman. I`ll tell you about it, and the behavior bureau and they will ring in as well after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart was just like, oh my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neighbors reacted to the horrifying crime that investigators say took place inside this small home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mother had killed their daughter, their children inside the residence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry. This so hard to hear, but they were lying in a pool of blood in bed with their mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I was very sad, like, the mom, like, I heard that she`s on drugs and everything. Yes. I think that`s very sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can a human being get themselves to kill a baby? I don`t get it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is the question everyone is asking. Why? We`re trying to answer this. A mom killed or accused of killing her three young daughters.
How is it possible?
I`m back with Sam.
And, Sam, we posted this story on HLN, Dr. Drew HLN Facebook page.
What are people saying?
SCHACHER: Yes. So, we posted on our Facebook page and we asked the fans, we asked them, this mother, if she is suffering from a mental illness which we believe she is. If this were to go to trial, would you have sympathy for her?
And the response was tremendous. So, 1,000 comments on Facebook. The majority say they would have no sympathy. For example, one woman commented, quote, "lock her up, throw away the key. Better yet, do the same to her as she did those babies."
But there are a rare handful who are trying to understand what had had happened, and, for example, another woman wrote in, quote, "could very well be psychotic post-partum and if that were the diagnosis, then yes I would have compassion for her."
PINSKY: And I suppose people don`t know what that is, and then they want vengeance for the children. It`s a natural human emotion, but it`s primitive, guys. You`ve got to understand, this woman`s brain may have been broken in that moment.
People who have post-partum psychosis are at risk for other mental illnesses like bipolar disorder. She may have had that already. Maybe there`s something there where she should have been more carefully monitored or monitored herself.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau to talk about this. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist and professor at Pepperdine University. Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist. And Tiffanie David Henry, HLN contributor and psychotherapist.
All right. Erica, you get what I`m getting at here? There`s not a lot of sympathy out there. I understand the desire for vengeance, but this woman may have been completely out of her mind.
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: No, absolutely. I love when you said that because, of course, I understand people, you know, you hear that three children were killed and you want to just kind of vilify the person. But, you know, as someone who has training and as an emphatic person, if this was psychosis from post-partum depression, she really had no idea what she was doing.
Does it make it right what happened? Of course not. I like to think where everybody was coming from in a situation.
But what I want to know is, was this something that was percolating, getting worse? Did it happen that day?
PINSKY: Yes, that`s right.
AMERICA: We really need to know.
PINSKY: Let`s take a poll. What -- have guys you seen post-partum psychosis? Everybody raise your hand who has seen post-partum psychosis. So, the three of us have. Erica, you`ve not.
In the cases you`ve seen, Tiffanie, how long did it take to come on, do you remember?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, in the cases I`ve seen, I`ve seen it on the back end where someone has had children, had multiple children.
PINSKY: Yes.
HENRY: And it usually gets worse and worse and worse after each child. So, to know that --
PINSKY: Well, this is the third child. Yes. The third child. Yes.
HENRY: Right. And they`re very, very close together. So that tells me there hasn`t been a lot of time in between each baby for her to kind of recover from whatever kind of post-partum psychosis, depression, whatever she might have been going through with the previous children. And probably did get progressively worse.
PINSKY: And, Judy, same question. I agree with what Tiffanie said. What about the speed of psychosis, if that`s what it is, can come on in some people?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It can come on suddenly, Dr. Drew. You might see signs leading up to it like depression, like some odd thinking. The individual starts to lose touch with reality. But the break in psychosis, yes, can be sudden within minutes, within hours.
PINSKY: So glad you said that, Judy, because that`s been my experience, too. I brought it up mostly to freak Sam out. She`s blown away by that.
SCHACHER: We talked about this in the middle of the break. It`s so alarm to me this would come on so rapidly. Those were your words in the very previous segment. So, what are the warning signs right before somebody is going to commit a heinous act?
PINSKY: Bizarre thinking. Bizarre, like thinking about ideas of reference, or the talk about Satan or talk about seeing spirits or hearing voices, anything like that.
Go ahead, add to it, Tiffanie.
HENRY: Well, one of the things you always want to do -- hopefully, she was in communications with her doctor being honest about the things she was experiencing. We hope she would have gotten a blood draw so we could see what her levels of estrogen, or thyroid levels, all those blood levels you guys do, Dr. Drew, we would hope that she would have some of things going on. So they can tell, okay, these things are a little out of whack and get you on appropriate medication so that we can calm those symptoms down a little bit and manage it a little better.
PINSKY: And as I said earlier, you can have a previous history of bipolar disorder, maybe unidentified in this woman. But people that have post-partum psychoses are at risk for bipolar disorder particularly.
Erica, last thoughts.
AMERICA: Yes, I was going to say that some -- I heard somebody say, you know, that they should have gotten themselves out of that building before she did anything. Sometimes you`re just not aware of what you`re doing. It`s up to friends and family, like the mom, the husband, if they did see the signs to get her into that treatment.
PINSKY: Again, goes at something I`ve been chanting here nightly which is we have to become citizens really a sophisticated citizens of social media, we learn to read the things people say online. There was -- maybe not a lot of clues on this case, but many times there are. We need to not laugh at people who are getting yelled, we need to not sit on the sidelines and be a bystander. We need to help out.
Next up, a grown man hides in a girl`s closet. Cops say it`s specifically to rape repeatedly the teenager that he met on the Internet. You`ve got to see this one.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam.
Now, this is the story that has you tweeting the most today but has Sam and I the most freaked out. A 27-year-old man meets a girl over the Internet.
Talk about online dating disasters. This is something else. He decides then to move in with her. Move in with her in her bedroom closet.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: There is a problem. The girl`s mom didn`t know about it. So that`s why the girl put him in the closet.
The reason she had to worry about keeping a 27-year-old man there is she was 14 years of age.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I asked him who he was. And he said his name was Jarred Workman. And he was 19.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She described finding a man inside her daughter`s bedroom living in this closet for five days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m scared. I can`t sleep at night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come up here to meet a girl online and try to stay in her residence not knowing what her parents are and what they`re about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dave Workman ran out of the home after the mother opened up the closet door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Internet has ruined that poor girl. She was very taken advantage of.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Yes, she was. I`m not sure it was the Internet, but hey, mom, the guy was living in your house for five days. She opens the door, he takes off, leaves his wallet and cell phone behind.
I imagine he`d be in a hurry when the mom shows up when he`s raping the 14-year-old.
SCHACHER: Yes. I mean, where is Chris Hansen when you need him? And I don`t say that lightly. I really don`t. Quite the opposite.
Do you remember how many disgusting pedophiles they would catch on to catch a predator? Dozens of them.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: They`re out there, parents. You can`t just blame the Internet. You need to monitor your children`s activity on the Internet.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s get into this -- bring back Vanessa, Mark, Leeann.
Leeann, is the Internet to blame? Is that the issue here?
TWEEDEN: Of course not.
Hello. I mean, let`s face it. The reality is, especially this younger generation, it`s all about the Internet. That`s how they communicate. That`s how they talk to each other. They don`t have face to face conversations anymore. That`s how they meet people, that`s how they interact. Let`s face it.
The mom, God bless her, it doesn`t seem like -- she just thinks oh, it`s the Internet`s fault. No, mom, it`s your fault. You`re not paying enough attention to your child, you`re not communicating enough with her she feels she can communicate with you. It`s like she doesn`t have a relationship in her daughter`s life right now.
She`s 14 years old. A lot of times pedophiles prey on those near puberty because they`re not sexually knowledgeable, but they`re curious about sex. And I`m sure he preyed on that.
PINSKY: Oh, absolutely -- clearly.
But, Mark, you`ve got kids. How old are your kids? They`re like 14, 16?
EIGLARSH: Twelve, 10, and almost 8.
PINSKY: OK. So the 12 and 10-year-old -- after the show, go upstairs and check their closets, because there`s somebody leaving -- you`re in Florida. It would be fair. Weird stuff goes on there as we hear about every night.
But in all seriousness, in all seriousness, this story is so outrageous. It makes you kind of nauseated. Go ahead.
PINSKY: No, absolutely. It wasn`t this show. I mean, probably 50 shows ago when we started to learn some of the crazy stuff that you expose us to as a parent, both my wife and I have to look over their shoulders and, quote, "invade their privacy."
I can -- you know, I`m not going to blame the mom for not checking the closets. Mothers have enough to do these days. To think that it`s reasonably foreseeable that there`s going it be a rapist living in your daughter`s closet? What if he was under the bed? Have to check under there, too? It`s nuts.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa, what do you say? Should -- I had all kinds of nanny gear on my kids` social media. We have to have all the passwords and stuff and they try to work around you but it`s time to stay on top of it.
BARNETT: It is. Stalk your children. My mother, I`m sure she`ll be embarrassed I say this, but she checked my bag. And that time, I`m like, oh, don`t do that. But when you`re 14, 15, 16 you, don`t have any privacy.
This mother is so removed from this child`s life, it`s disgusting. She`s talking about that poor child is ruined by the Internet as if it`s not even her own child. She`s talking about, I can`t sleep at night.
What about your daughter?
TWEEDEN: Exactly.
BARNETT: What about your daughter`s life? And I got a call from a dad today who told me that he got a call from my house and wanted to know what this number was because I -- my daughter accidentally called his 11- year-old daughter. That`s parenting.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: He called and checked. This woman is a disgrace.
SCHACHER: And to your point, Vanessa, what`s really crazy about this is not only as parents you need to monitor your children`s social media but you really need to educate yourselves, be savvy online, because you also -- it`s your responsibility to warn them of these dangers because these predators aren`t just hanging out in these obscure chat rooms. They`re on Twitter. They`re on Facebook. They`re on Instagram. The very sites your kids are using daily.
TWEEDEN: That guy found her on Facebook and wooed her for like a month and convinced her. A 14-year-old, I actually thought it was okay to invite him in and stay in her closet. She`s got problems.
PINSKY: Mark?
EIGLARSH: Let`s shift a little bit. We`ve been dumping on the mom. OK. There`s some responsibility there. This guy --
PINSKY: Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, yes.
EIGLARSH: They are cunning, they are baffling, they are manipulative. This guy was so hell-bent on continuing to violate her that he set up camp in her closet.
You know that he`s responsible primarily for this abhorrent crime.
BARNETT: Lied about his age and he said he was 19, as if a 19-year- old sleeping with a 14-year-old is OK.
I always think what`s a grown man at that age, what does he see in a 14-year-old? That is sick.
PINSKY: Oh, please. He`s a sick guy. He`s a criminal. He set up camp rapist in the closet. It`s a reminder, parents, not only social media but there are dating apps. You should know words like Tinder, and look at your kids` phones. They`ve got the stuff in their hands now. We provide it for them and need to know what they`re doing with it because dangerous things go on, believe me.
Understand, my radio program, we dedicated the last three nights to Internet dating disasters and the range of story I heard with young adults, forget the young teens. Who knows what`s going on there yet. Young adults. Stunning the range of problems people are getting into today with this. Thank you, panel.
Next up, the mother of a man who crashed into the television station says her son was mentally ill, but she could not get the proper treatment for him. This is an all too common story. We`ll get into it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got attacked today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: a man tries to open the doors. Security won`t let him inside. So the man uses force, bursting through the station doors at WMAR ABC-2 News in Baltimore. He was screaming as he pulled on the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was shouting, I`m God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me in, I`m God. I`m f-ing God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man stole a landscaping truck from outside and smashed it into the front of the building. He hit the front windows twice before breaking through.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Wow. I`m just -- I didn`t -- I can`t stop looking at that video. Of course, I`m back with Sam. That man is now in jail. His family says he should not be in jail. He should be in a psychiatric facility. He struggled with drug use and mental illness for a long time. He was in outpatient treatment I guess as I understand, Sam, a couple of courses of outpatient treatment which suggests he needed it and was ill and probably should have been in-patient.
The story I got tell you happens all the time where people get sort of the minimal care offered by their insurance resources when they should be getting the maximum. The day before he attacked the news station, his care was terminated, obviously, prematurely.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau: Judy, Erica, and Tiffanie.
All right, now, let`s take a look at the tweet he posted in all caps just before the incident. Here it is. "You don`t have to worry about me right now. The people you all have hurt are going to deal with you." If that makes sense. "Watch."
Judy, what are you thinking?
HO: Well, first of all, the text doesn`t really make a lot of sense there.
PINSKY: Right.
HO: But we see that it`s threatening. And so we know that he was already planning to do something. And clearly he was actively psychotic if he was having delusions that he was god. What you were saying earlier, Dr. Drew, about people not getting the maximum level of care and when they don`t get step down from the level of care, like he was in this outpatient programs, and all of a sudden, he was discontinued, there needs to be step downs so he`s still getting active treatment, maybe less of it when he`s stabilized there, then you move down to the next level. We don`t really have that system really well built.
PINSKY: I`m gonna show you -- I`m gonna show you guys some written messages while he was barricaded in this building, in this television studio. He put them up to the window said I`m God almighty, grandiose delusion. I`m here to save you from the energies, which is really interesting. They say you are in the wrong timeline. Erica, save you from the energies suggests that he maybe believed that the television station was beaming thoughts into his head. I don`t know if you guys saw mad men with a head of one of the ad sales guys went psychotic and began believing that the computer was controlling his thoughts. That`s a psychotic episode.
ERICA AMERICA: Yeah, this is, you know, hallucinations and delusions and this man was clearly unravelling, as his mother said. What`s so sad is that we need to look at what the criteria is for keeping people in an in- patient program. Rather than.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You`re breaking my heart. This story -- here`s the game they play which is you complain about it as a clinician they go, well, if you don`t like how we do business, that your insurance company calls back, goes, you don`t like how we do business, Dr. Pinsky, we`re going to decertify the whole hospital.
AMERICA: OK.
PINSKY: That`s what they do, then, they -- if you don`t play that game, than they go -- they say, well, they don`t meet our criteria, their criteria. Not the doctor`s criteria, their criteria. Tiffanie, I`m gonna go to you next with this. Then the patient discharges. Something like this horrible happens, and they go, we don`t practice medicine. The doctor`s signature is right there on the discharge sheet. That game goes on every day in America. Tiffanie.
AMERICA: This is a broken system.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D.: And then, let`s take it from the family`s perspective. OK? An in-patient state the average length of stay is about three to five days. And most people if they`re this psychotic aren`t going to get stabilized in three to five days.
PINSKY: Right.
HENRY: Now, the price for that is about $3,000 to $5,000. Hopefully your insurance covers at least 80 percent. It may not, but after those three to five days they say, well, we`re not going to pay for it anymore. So, the family like this family would say, I want my relative to be there but if they want them to be there, then they have to look at coming out of pocket at about $1,000 a day, and most of us don`t have that kind of money.
PINSKY: That`s it.
HENRY: This guy needed a continuous stay. Stepping down is not the answer. Day treatment is not the answer, intensive outpatient, not the answer.
PINSKY: In-patient. That`s right. Four people, four professionals who work in mental health are standing here saying this. We`ve all been through this experience of having our patients --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: Awful.
PINSKY: Leave prematurely with our signature because we`re not willing to subject that family to immense financial burden. Sam, this is.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: This is news to me. OK. This is news to me because --
HENRY: This is really sad. Go ahead, Sam. I`m sorry.
SCHACHER: OK. How many times on this show do we report on or try to advocate for families to face mental illness head-on, break down that stigma? Well, this family did. And now, we`re saying that -- it`s almost like you`re damned if you do, you`re damned if you don`t. What should they have done differently because, this poor -- their son, their brother, he not only could have killed a lot of people that day and himself. And that`s what they were concerned about. He should not have been let out.
PINSKY: Now, Judy, now he goes to prison. So, he goes to the mental health facility of last resort where most people end up because they`re getting inadequate care.
HO: That`s right. And because it has escalated to this level, we now are actually most certainly not going to get him the specific care that he really needs to resolve these problems. The prison system and the mental health care that`s offered to some prison inmates is nothing like the type of treatment that he needs, which is a continuous residential treatment.
PINSKY: That`s right.
HO: However, people have no idea as we have already talked about. It`s so expensive. They can`t do it. They don`t know where to turn. And I think that people don`t know where the resources are and how they can go without it.
PINSKY: Erica, last thought.
AMERICA: No, I just -- this is extremely sad. And you know, I don`t know what to say. I would like these people to be kept in. I understand that the.
PINSKY: I gave you the last word because I can see the sadness on your face. And I know, it`s a very sad.
AMERICA: I just don`t want.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
AMERICA: I don`t want to see more things happening. This case he just bumped into the wall, but then there`s the things where they go to the college campuses and they kill 20 people.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Or kill their babies, they kill their children, whatever it might be. We really have done a problem in this country. There are so many layers to it. We`ll keep addressing it. Hopefully some day it will change. Thanks, panel.
Next up, a little boy is kicked in the head on purpose. Police say one of the people responsible is his dad. We will show you an unbelievable Instagram video after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam. We`re going to take a look at disturbing video it was uploaded to Instagram. Have you seen this yet?
SCHACHER: I did.
PINSKY: OK. So, have this is an 8-year-old brutally kicked in the head by a 15-year-old. And, Sam, here`s what I want you to think about when we watch this again, that you can break someone`s neck doing what you`re about to see. You can tear the veins inside their skull in the brain and cause massive bleeding. It can easily happen even though the kid is having a helmet -- wearing a helmet. So, I want you all to take a look at this and think about that.
SCHACHER: I believe it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSHUA WHITTINGTON: Got it going on.
TRACY CASTEEL: I do not condone this. I do not condone this. Are you OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: She laughs.
PINSKY: All right. That was dad. That was dad. We had it up there on the screen, dad, taking that video and making those lovely comments. The 15-year-old then posted the video to Instagram. The 15-year-old who kicked the kid posted it with this caption. What this kid will do for a piece of gum, coming back, Leeann, Erica, and Tiffanie. Hey, Leeann, what do you think?
LEEANN TWEEDEN: Oh my God. I just want to do this to both parents seriously without a helmet, because that is so irresponsible. I mean, that poor young child is just standing there and taking it because what else is he going to do? All three of them are against him. He`s an 8-year-old little boy. I mean, not only can that break his neck and tear vessels, a concussion. I mean, he might seem fine now. They`re like, oh, he`s OK, he`s fine. They did it again, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: The brain juggles like pickles in a jar.
TWEEDEN: Right. I mean, he could still be injured and we just don`t know it yet.
PINSKY: Then they post another video. It goes, again, this time another video with the caption, this kid loves it, no joke, he asked us to make another video. He thinks he`s famous now. Take a look. Oh, yeah, let`s put -- can we show that video? Do we have it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITTINGTON: Running head kick take two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Instagram.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Erica, that was even worse. It takes your breath away. He -- maybe that kid is doing it to be famous. Imagine that motivation.
AMERICA: Well, OK, when Kanye West said that is Cray, that video is Cray, crazy stupid. This is a combination of straight-up child abuse mixed with idiocracy. Like, these people are not very bright honestly. What is the dynamic in this family going on? Please, Dr. Drew, tell me that for fun they think let`s double kick our son potentially breaking his neck. I mean, this is a serious problem.
PINSKY: Do you guys remember the movie Idiocracy, nobody recall? Where they people -- yeah, they were just -- television became all people just getting beaten up and going through extremes.
TWEEDEN: And since when do you let the 8-year-old make the decision? He wanted to make another video.
PINSKY: That`s my point.
TWEEDEN: That`s when the 8-year-old makes a choice.
PINSKY: Who cares what the kid wanted? You`re not -- what if he wanted to have an anvil dropped from two stories from above his head?
SCHACHER: I don`t even blame this 15-year-old, because look at the environment that he grew up in. Of course, he`s going to become a product of his environment, and for him to think that this video is funny and OK to upload on Instagram. Can you imagine what other type of behavior they also condone?
AMERICA: Exactly, Sam.
SCHACHER: Or what other type of behavior that occurs that he wouldn`t put on Instagram, that`s what alarms me.
PINSKY: And Tiffanie, the only reason they got caught was, in fact, it was out there on Instagram.
SCHACHER: Exactly, thank God.
HENRY: Again, it`s stupid. They continue to do that and it is the apple tree theory. You know, I don`t think this apple falls very far from the tree. And I think it`s also a very much learned behavior. These kids are positively reinforcing in a negative behavior. And for the mom to sit back and just say, I`m not condoning this, well, you`re not doing anything to stop it. You`re an active participant.
SCHACHER: She was laughing.
TWEEDEN: It`s just disgusting.
PINSKY: And I don`t think the dad helped this case any when he apparently said we didn`t think it was a big deal because he does it all the time.
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh.
TWEEDEN: Did you hear his voice when he said take two? He sounded kind of drunk. So, that wouldn`t surprise me either.
PINSKY: That will -- actually, that would make me feel a little better, might explain a couple things. Last thought, Sam?
SCHACHER: You know, Dr. Drew, please tell us, OK, because the doctor said that this little kid did not have brain injury, but you talked about it a little bit earlier. How easy could that have happened? And could there still be some injury that we don`t know about.
PINSKY: Absolutely. He still could have a concussion. He could still be at risk for other problems for sure. God knows what`s happened to his neck as a result of this. Thank God children tend to be rather resilient, but again, another case of social media motivating behavior, not so good. So, parents, watch what your kids are doing on Instagram, too. Something you might learn something about.
Next up, Tori and Dean, are they swingers? So, they say, people saying this is fake.
Reminder, you can find us any time on Instagram @drdrewhln. And we will be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. Tori Spelling`s reality show "True Tori" is making news again. Now, we have covered this before and moved away from it, but the action on Twitter, Sam, has been so intense. We thought, all right, let`s try this again and see what people want to talk about.
SCHACHER: Yeah. We`re getting a lot of tweets about it right now, too. So, from Lucia D., she writes in, how could such a high-profile couple be swingers without the word getting out?
PINSKY: Point being people on Twitter are saying it`s a fake. That this is more fake.
SCHACHER: A lot of people think it`s a fake.
PINSKY: More stuff just to get airtime which we`re providing them, of course.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: What we`re talking about is the new report in a magazine, there was a claim that the couple liked to share sexual partners. And that that was going on even before Dean cheated on Tori. So, they`re swingers but they cheat. I got to diagram this.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: They don`t talk about being swingers on the show, but they do fight a lot about their sexual relationship. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
TORI SPELLING: Our sex life couldn`t have been better. We were back on track.
DEAN MCDERMOTT: Right.
SPELLING: We were doing.
DEAN MCDERMOTT: I resented you -- just like I told the doc, I said I had resentment. That stuck in my craw that we weren`t intimate before I left. The night before I always go away, we`re intimate and we weren`t that night.
SPELLING: Now, you`re bringing it back to the very night before you left? We didn`t have sex so that is why you went (BLEEP) some woman? Two weekends in a row I went to a sex store. We did things I`ve never done before because you wanted it. You kept wanting to raise the bar.
MCDERMOTT: I didn`t know. I can`t do it.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Wow. Tiffanie, Judy back, and welcoming the panel, Marc Summers, host of Rewrapped on the food network, Monday nights, 8:00 P.M. So, skeptics say the story was planted by Tori and Dean just like the other cheating scandal. They want attention. Marc, what do you say?
MARC SUMMERS, REWRAPPED HOST: Right on the money. I`ve been producing reality television for ten years. There`s real reality, and then there`s scripted reality. There`s no doubt in my mind that this is scripted reality, they`re just making this crap up. Even just watching them, they`re such bad actors. And my question becomes, why do people want to watch this? What are people online saying?
SCHACHER: It makes them feel better about their own life.
PINSKY: Tiffanie, do you agree?
HENRY: Well, I kind of do. Really, I don`t care whether they swing or not. It really doesn`t make any difference to me. I think that for couples who do, do it and try to do that as a way of fixing their relationship, which they are doing, I would imagine that`s how it came up, hey, baby, will you try this, do this, it turns me on. I want you to do it, do it for big daddy, whatever. I think they do it in order to spice things up, but if you already have problems, it`s going to cause more problems.
PINSKY: Right. I don`t know of a well-trained professional on earth that goes, you`re having relationship problems? I have an idea, threesome, that will fix you guys. Judy, you say you`ve treated cheating swingers. The part I was trying to understand, how can you be a swinger and be a cheater? In my experience, something like that does always happen when people loosen boundaries and start swinging, somebody gets some feelings they don`t anticipate, yes?
HO: So, here`s the thing, Dr. Drew. This couple that I`m treating who are swingers, which they invite these relationships, sexual relationships into their relationship, but that`s agreed upon. So, this particular couple then the woman engaged in sex alone with one of the guys that they had invited.
PINSKY: How dare she, huh?
HO: Right. And then all of a sudden.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Just a massively different situation. Marc, help me understand this in your scripted reality world, Marc. Does this make sense to you?
SUMMERS: None of this makes sense to me. As I`ve said last time I was here, let`s stop making stupid people rich. Turn this crap off and let`s just get done with it all. I don`t understand why people tune this stuff in.
HO: But, Dr. Drew, the reason why they felt betrayed is because that was outside of the agreement of this couple. Even as bizarre as their agreement is, they did not say that they can have sex with unapproved partners.
SCHACHER: Right.
HO: And so, now, the man feels really, really resemble and the woman feels guilty. So, somehow in the relationship dynamic, they actually both agreed that she did cheat on him.
SCHACHER: Well, I don`t put it past, Dean. I could actually, you know, see him kind.
PINSKY: These are all allegations, allegedly.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Allegedly I don`t put it past, Dean. I think he probably wanted to ask, Tori, to have a threesome with him? But, Tori, has been very open.
HENRY: Who doesn`t?
PINSKY: Tiffanie, how dare you.
SCHACHER: But since the very beginning, you know, their reality shows year ago, Tori, has been open and honest that her greatest fear has been, Dean, cheating on her, possibly because they entered their relationship in infidelity. They had an affair, but I just can`t imagine her being OK with that when she`s been forthright, that she does not want another woman in their relationship.
SUMMERS: Drew, I have an idea.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Marc. Let`s hear it.
SUMMERS: I think her father used to produce the Love Boat. So, maybe we should bring the Love Boat back. Put them back on that. Bring back Jo Anne Worley and a couple of B&C actors and maybe we solve their problem that way.
HENRY: What about Dean?
HO: Give them something to do.
HENRY: Throw Dean off the boat.
PINSKY: Everyone`s got to swing, though, on the boat. Well, it will be the real love boat. We`ll call it the real Love Boat, that`s what we`ll do. OK, guys. Listen, the one thing I do know about this story is that Twitter continues to two wild about it. You guys love to talk about it on Twitter. Speculate about it, but the overwhelming opinion that people tweet, correct me if I`m wrong, Sam, is that this is a fake, they don`t buy it for some reason. I think this guy is an alcoholic, even if he was in treatment, I think he does have sexual issues here. To what extend they`re distorted by the reality show, I don`t know.
Next up, I`ve got some viral videos that you just have to see. We`re going to talk about it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Erica, Judy, and Marc. And we`ve been asking a lot of questions about what people are doing, why they do it and just some incredible stories tonight. I don`t know if we can answer those questions as it pertains to this video, which was first posted on Youtube. See this guy? An elementary school teacher, grabs a boy`s skateboard, and threatens somebody else with the skateboard, then raises it and throws it over the fence. He`s such a good toss.
SCHACHER: Do it again.
PINSKY: It`s hard to understand, is this road rage of some type we`re seeing? Is this somebody who can`t stand skateboarding? And by the way, the whole thing happened outside a skate shop. Where kids are supposed to skate I assume. The teacher was charged. Marc, can you make any sense of this thing?
SUMMERS: I did a little research on this. And supposedly he was upset. He said the kids were breaking the law. I`m not exactly sure what law he thought they were breaking. But as an adult, you set an example and you stop and you talk to them. To grab the kid`s skateboard, run, and look how graceful he is, and then throw it up like that, I mean, I`m not sure what the guy was doing. This is a guy who deals with students on a day-to-day basis. It`s really frightening. He should not be in that job.
PINSKY: Erica.
AMERICA: Is Rob Ford let out of rehab? Because I`m sorry, that kid looks like Rob Ford, just saying. So, yeah, clearly this is out of control behaviour and no impulse control, volatile, and I understand a lot of the teacher, excuse me, parents of the students in the school do not want him back. And I understand that. I think he really needs to be evaluated.
SCHACHER: Well, some of the parents are sticking up for him. It`s actually almost about 50/50. So, this is where I have to say was this a one-time incident? Of course, I don`t think that it should be condoned, but also to have his job taken away from him when possibly he could be a really good teacher and maybe had a bad day or he was provoked.
PINSKY: But once again, if we didn`t have video, surveillance video, people are recorders in their hands all day long, we would just hear about this and try to make sense of it. When you look at it, it seems more vivid, it somehow more bizarre.
SCHACHER: It was all over Youtube.
PINSKY: I`ll show you another surveillance video -- hang on a second, Marc. This one is from Houston. It`s a man on a metro platform. Out of nowhere he punches a guy in the face. The victim`s nose was -- look at this. Victim`s nose was broken. Same suspect apparently hit at least one other person. Marc, you had something to say about this one?
SUMMERS: Well, this is a ritual that`s been going on, on the east coast for the last three to six months.
PINSKY: The knockout game.
SCHACHER: Do you film the knockout game? That`s the point of the knockout game.
PINSKY: So, somebody films it?
SUMMERS: Yeah. And I don`t know if this is just a guy on drugs, who`s drunk. You know, obviously, there`s no reason. There`s no rationale for this stuff. It just seems like the world is getting crazier and crazier. I just want to go back to the guy with the skateboard. They said 50/50 part of the people was supporting him, for what reason?
SCHACHER: Well, I guess a lot of the people that I read online, is that he -- his history that he was a really great teacher. They thought that this was out of character for him. One of the student`s fathers thought, maybe he had really a bad day or maybe he was provoked to the point hat he reacted this way and didn`t want to rush to judgment by taking his job away.
SUMMERS: Well, he needs a dresser, I`ll say that.
SCHACHER: A stylist.
HO: And, Dr. Drew, I think that this first video here, this teacher, just learned some really bad problem solving skills from his elementary students. I mean, this is regression at its worst. When I want to regress to childhood, I play video games. When he wants to regress to childhood, he`s throwing skateboards and threatening people with an object.
PINSKY: I just had a weird image of, Judy, playing World of War Craft Redemption.
SCHACHER: Hot. I like it.
PINSKY: But, Judy, I like you to put on your professional hat for a second. Back to the guy that`s punching people on a train platform. I find -- I mean.
SCHACHER: Is it drugs?
PINSKY: Yeah. Do you think -- again, we`re talking about another psychotic individual who thinks he`s -- somebody`s threatening him or is this just aggression that we have? People walk around the world, we have to protect ourselves from today. Is this a knockout game that`s being practiced without cameras?
HO: I absolutely believe that this is just a person who has poor impulse control. I don`t think he`s psychotic. I think he`s really just taking it out on the world. Whatever he`s angry at, he`s not getting that resolve and this is how he chose to deal with it.
SCHACHER: And I don`t think they caught him yet, am I right? I don`t think they caught him. I think the reason they were showing this surveillance footage earlier was to hopefully somebody would identify him. You know what, maybe he`s going to punch the wrong person and that person will punch him back. Maybe he`ll learn.
PINSKY: Or have a weapon is the sad part.
SCHACHER: That`s true, that is the sad part.
PINSKY: Erica. What`s going on?
AMERICA: Yeah. No, it just really hurts me to see something like that, because imagine if it was, you know, your own father, your own grandfather. And I think this is a trendy thing on the east coast and it`s a criminal act. It`s someone who just wants to be like, I`m going to get attention and get my rocks off by randomly hurting someone. That`s like anti-social type of behaviour, that there`s no empathy involved there. And that could be -- it escalates to something much worse. So, that`s really, really scary.
PINSKY: Wow. It`s just very disturbing to watch that. I don`t know, I spend a lot of time in subways and train platforms, and I don`t think about the people around me attacking me.
SCHACHER: You better watch out. You better have a move prepared, Dr. Drew.
HO: Right. You got to be aware of your surroundings. You can`t just be texting, right?
PINSKY: Well, you`re right. I mean, that`s the world we live in now. All right, guys, please DVR us right now. You can you watch this show anytime. Thank you, panel. Thank you, Marc, for coming back and joining us. The Forensic Files, follows us, and begins right now.
END
