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Dr. Drew
Doctor Sends Nude Selfies from Surgery?; Woman Kept as Sex Slave?
Aired June 10, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a medical doctor busted. Was he sexually explicit texts and exposing his genitalia in
selfies during surgeries? We got something to say about that.
Plus, a sex slave with a barcode on her arm and chain around her neck escapes. Behavior panel sounds off.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, listen to this -- we`ve got a story about eighth graders being required to reveal in front of their class -- I almost can`t
even say it, their sexual escapades. Their stories and where they think the appropriate boundaries are and where they`ve been. They have to admit
this in front of their entire class. Parents, as you can imagine, are upset.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: And you`re 13, 14 years old. How embarrassing? I can`t imagine being one of those kids.
PINSKY: All right. But, first, these anesthesiologists has lost his license because -- well, suspended because allegedly he had sent scores of
sexually explicit texts while attending surgery. He`s the anesthesiologist in attendance. We`re going to talk to one of his patients.
But, first, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry, I can`t really talk right now. I appreciate you guys. I understand you want to hear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hospital anesthesiologist allegedly sent dozens and dozens of sexually charged text messages during surgery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I could ask you guys to leave, please, I would appreciate that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The records show Silberstein (ph) wanted a covert encounter with a patient Z. He seems to have brought her into the doctor`s
lounge for sexual relations, all while listing himself as her treating physician.
The Medical Quality Assurance Commission said his actions, quote, "put patients at unreasonable risk of harm." Then they wrote that he
improperly reviewed her medical file and images for, quote, "his own sexual gratification". He said he texted sexual talk while surgeries were
happening three different times. The department charged that Silberstein sent selfies of his genitals to patient Z while wearing hospital scrubs and
his badge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let`s bring in our behavior bureau. Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist and professor of
Pepperdine University, and Jennifer Keitt, life coach.
The woman he was texting is --
SCHACHER: Sexting.
PINSKY: Well, he was sexting and texting is described as both his girlfriend and his patient. So, Jennifer, I mean, he is really in bad
trouble with just that boundary violation.
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: He is not upholding his ethical responsibility and duty to protect the patient. The moment that she is
checked in is the moment that he has crossed the line in terms of what his relationship needs to be with this woman.
I honestly believe, Dr. Drew, that he needs to turn in his medical card and start working for the adult entertainment industry, which he can
do those kinds of things, he can take all the selfies he wants to, have all the sex he wants to have and he doesn`t have to endanger patients in doing
that. He is going through some kind of mid-life crisis or something.
Forty-seven? You can`t keep it in your pants? Come on now.
PINSKY: Well, speaking of that, here`s one of the texts he sent, after sending a selfie also, quote, "Oh, and my partner walked in, as I was
pulling up my scrubs. I`m pretty sure he just caught me."
SCHACHER: Pulling up my scrubs? So, I`m sorry. Is he also pleasuring himself while his patients are on the operating table?
PINSKY: I feel very uncomfortable with this story. Judy, help me out, I know Michelle is going to off. So, I`m going to avoid Michelle for
a second to go to -- Judy, is there any way that this guy is being misrepresented?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I really doubt it, Dr. Drew. With all the boundary violations and the fact that we know an anesthesiologists
are very at risk for substance issues, it makes me think about whether or not there`s something like that going on.
PINSKY: Well, for sure, there has -- that`s the only way this makes sense. In fact, I heard somewhere in one of these reports, he was
prescribing Oxycodone, OxyContin with a little bit to this patient Z, with a little bit indiscriminate sort of enthusiasm, let`s say. And we know --
although, I think anesthesiologists have one of the highest risk for addiction among all physicians and that certainly could cause impaired
judgment, during the operations, mostly C-sections, cesarean sections.
And here`s another text he sent out during one of them, quote, "I`m hella busy with C-sections."
So, Michelle, if he`s hella busy --
(CROSSTALK)
MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: I feel like his license just for saying hell, because who says that? But this guy is a pervert, all right? He`s
disgusting. He was giving out prescriptions, unauthorized prescriptions.
PINSKY: What do you mean unauthorized? He`s able to write prescriptions that he wants. The problem is --
FIELDS: He wasn`t allowed -- I`m sorry?
PINSKY: He can give prescriptions if he wants. He`s just was giving to somebody who was also his girlfriend.
FIELDS: OK. No, no, no. Some of the prescriptions, they said he didn`t have the authority to give it to them. So that is unethical. And
then on top of it, he is using these images for sexual gratification.
PINSKY: We think. We hear. I`m going to play devil`s advocate.
FIELDS: We hear maybe?
SCHACHER: OK. You`re going to play --
PINSKY: I`m going to play devil`s advocate.
SCHACHER: I thought you would be furious.
PINSKY: I am. If they`re really all real, I have two reactions. One is, oh, my God, this guy must be a terrible drug addict. He deserves a
chance at treatment. People get their silence and reinstate after, I`ve seen bad stuff happen people do on drugs. I`ve seen it, and it`s their
disease that is really at the helm at that point.
Or this thing is being misrepresented. Maybe the patient was the drug addict, manipulating the doctor in some weird way.
SCHACHER: Wait a second.
PINSKY: I don`t know.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, let me get in here.
KEITT: No!
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I`m sorry. If I was one of these patients -- there was a lot of them.
PINSKY: Were there a lot? How many were there?
SCHACHER: I don`t know the exact number. But it wasn`t just his girlfriend/patient. There were other cases. In fact, there was a
pediatric case. Not OK.
So, if one of my kids was lying on that operating table under anesthesia and he`s whacking off to sex messages, I`m sorry.
PINSKY: I understand if that`s what he was doing.
Jennifer, you also react strongly. What are you thinking?
KEITT: Yes. Dr. Drew, come on now. A 47-year-old man has got to be able to control his sexual urges.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
KEITT: Are you telling me that my gut is open and you`re pulling out a baby and you`ve got time to be sexually stimulated?
SCHACHER: Thank you.
PINSKY: You guys, I`m just saying --
KEITT: Come on.
PINSKY: I agree with you. I`m just saying, if, in fact, that`s what happened. This is all sort of -- Judy, am I not right, they`re sort of
allegations at this point?
HO: Right. They`re allegations and to play a little devil`s advocate myself, if this is a substance abuse issue and that`s the main
problem, I do believe that he deserves a chance at treatment.
PINSKY: Yes. Thank you.
HO: To see if he can rehabilitate, because the impulsivity may be related to the substance abuse.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: No one was harmed.
KEITT: No, no.
PINSKY: Hold on a second. No one got, the surgeries didn`t -- there weren`t misadventures, the surgeries didn`t go poorly.
Michelle, you look sick. Go ahead.
FIELDS: No, he does not deserve a second chance. What this guy did was disgusting. Evidence of the amount of text he was sending during a
surgery, you should not be doing that at all. This guy is not trustworthy. I don`t care if he has a drug addiction, whatever he has, he should never
be allowed to be in an operation room again.
PINSKY: Michelle, what I really appreciative of what Michelle is telling us tonight, is she has a look after absolute disgust as she`s
saying it.
And I see it. I understand. I understand why you feel that way if, indeed, this is all an accurate reflection of what this man did.
And, Judy, I know, you`re with me that if he had -- you`re not disgusted any more. You`re smiling.
But if Judy -- if he, indeed, does have addiction, you know, people do have a chance to get better from their addictions. That`s all I`m
saying.
I`ve got one of the doctor`s patients that`s coming up with me next. Let`s hear what she has to say. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said he texted sexual talk while surgeries were happening, ranging from labor epidurals, incision and drainages,
spinal work, and his most common surgery, caesarian procedures.
The doctor even texted --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m hella busy with C sections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Silberstein sent selfies of his genitals to patient Z while wearing hospital scrubs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, and my partner walked in, as I was pulling up my scrubs. I`m pretty sure he caught me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with some and our behavior bureau.
Judy Ho, Segun Oduolowu, host of "Plug in with Segun" podcast, and Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-day love Detox."
Of course, talking about a doctor, or an anesthesiologist who allegedly exchanged nearly 230 sexually explicit texts during a surgery,
while he was working on patients.
Now, let`s remind ourselves, they just listed a bunch of surgeries he was attending. He wasn`t doing the surgeries. He was doing anesthesia,
which is a pretty standard procedure during these complicated procedures.
Wendy, in my, for my -- what I`m concerned with is not just that he was texting during surgery but that he showed impairment of judgment,
indiscriminate prescribing, perhaps, to a patient, who`s also his girlfriend, and terrible boundaries. That`s really where this goes off the
rail.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I totally agree with you. And I want to take this out even bigger. This is about men and their little boxes, OK?
PINSKY: How dare you?
WALSH: They get a dopamine rush every time they send and receive a little sexy text. I have to divulge something, Dr. Drew. I`ve dated a few
doctors in my day, and even some anesthesiologists and I`ve gotten a few frisky texts in my day during surgery. So, I will tell you, what they do
is they hook the patient up and then they sit there and watch a bunch of beeping monitors and it`s totally boring for the next 45 minutes and then
they go back to work.
So, in some ways -- I`m not really condoning it, but it`s keeping them stimulated. It`s keeping them awake. Would we rather have them look
at a monitor and fall asleep on us?
SCHACHER: They`re stimulated in the wrong way. Are you kidding me?
PINSKY: Sort of one evil versus another.
During a particular surgery, it was laparoscopic fundoplasty, it`s esophagogastric repair. He allegedly exchange -- they go in and repair a
hiatal hernia.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: They allegedly exchanged 45 sexts in less than an hour and a half, 45.
So, Judy, again, that, again, to me, is more about judgment. I`m -- it`s not that he was doing this, is that it`s the magnitude of it and sort
of -- again, the lack of judgment in all of this.
HO: That`s right. Dr. Wendy, did your man, back in the day, send you 45 texts within 30 minutes?
WALSH: No, I only got one.
HO: Exactly. So, this was a guy who knew how to use it sparingly and maybe perhaps the rest of the time he was on Yahoo! Football or
whatever. But, you know, this absolutely over the top. And again, this level impulsivity, I can`t just help but associate it with substance use.
PINSKY: That`s me, too.
HO: So, that`s kind of what I`m thinking here.
PINSKY: Yes, I am, too.
Listen, whenever you see physicians prescribing opiates sort of willy-nilly, like it doesn`t make sense, I think him giving opiates to
somebody, that his girlfriend really is an over-the-top move from a physician stand point.
WALSH: That`s a different thing.
PINSKY: But, yes, right, that`s -- the use -- very awful when somebody is doing that, they literally don`t see anything wrong with it
because they themselves are doing it.
Segun, I haven`t heard from you yet. What do you say?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Dr. Drew, first, physician do no harm. So, none of the patients so far were injured or in distress?
PINSKY: Well, patient Z, the one that was also his girlfriend, she was harmed by somebody who claimed to be her doctor becoming a boyfriend.
That`s harmful thing, and describing the opiates and opioid steroid.
ODUOLOWU: OK. But, Dr. Drew, we`ve seen this 1,001 times of doctors using their prescription pad. To kind -- I mean, I think he might have
hooked this girlfriend by saying, hey, I can get you drugs. But he`s no different than, you know, a politician who wants to send sexting pictures.
I don`t condone it. I think he`s a creep. And, you know, on my creep meter, he`s way at the top because a woman getting a c-section is not
arousing to me. But, again, he should be fired. He should lose his job.
But I think we`re piling on when -- you know, we`re looking for excuses. He is a creep. Let`s call him a creep.
WALSH: Why can`t we just --
SCACHER: Medical record for sexual gratification, that`s invasive.
PINSKY: They say that. Unless he went in the records to clean up -- who knows what?
Listen, I want to bring a former patient in. She`s a former of Dr. Silberstein`s. We`re going to call her Lisa to protect her identity.
Lisa, he was your anesthesiologist during your surgery. What was he like for you?
LISA, FORMER PATIENT (via telephone): Yes. None of the creep-o- meter was going off. My contact of him was in advance.
I actually, to be honest with you, more than the surgery itself, I got multiple second and third opinions. Everyone said it was medically
necessary. It was the general that was keeping me from making the decision.
So, I called the hospital and asked if I could speak to an anesthesiologist and he was the one on call and I had the opportunity to
speak to him. And at the end of the call, he offered to schedule me with someone I would choose, which is not generally their policy but because of
my level of nervousness. So, I asked if he would do the procedure and he scheduled it and agreed and I met him the morning of the procedure, pre-op
was my most time with him and again afterwards.
PINSKY: Is there any way you can understand these complaints?
LISA: No. I mean, I think it`s like many things in life. You have a professional interaction with someone and you don`t know what`s going on
behind --
PINSKY: But sometimes this somebody is -- you know, if somebody is inappropriate or you feel those boundaries being violated or feel like
they`re intoxicated in some way? You got none of that, though?
LISA: The only thing I can tell you is I think different people have different levels of formality, both with patients, clients, whatever their
professional relationships are and his boundaries were lower. He was a more casual person. He had a good sense of humor.
As a patient, that actually made me comfortable, but that might be from a psychological perspective, going along in line with these things you
are saying, but I had no problem with a doctor/scientist in charge of the medication.
PINSKY: Segun?
ODUOLOWU: Well, I mean, no pun intended but it seems his bedside manner wasn`t that bad. I mean, come on! She never felt that he was
creepy.
It`s not like he was taking pictures of the patients. He was taking pictures of himself. He`s got an issue, but didn`t do any harm to any of
the patients.
I`m not commending him. But I`m not going to condemn the man as some kind of horrible. He`s a creep.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: You`re the physician, though. How does it make you feel when other physicians are behaving badly?
PINSKY: Oh, that`s one of my most painful things. It breaks my heart when that happens.
That`s why I`m trying to defend this guy and understand if he really was doing some of the things that are being alleged here.
If, indeed, he was violating boundaries and showing poor judgment because he was strung out on opiates, he actually deserves a chance,
sustained recovery and back under careful supervisions.
He may be an excellent physician. He just has had an illness that affected his judgment and impaired his ability to function.
But if this is how this guy -- if this guy has a track record of bad boundaries, dating patients, and sending messages to patients, that to me
is one of the most serious violations. Forget everything else, forget that it was during surgery, forget that he prescribed opiates. Just the fact
that he made a patient a girlfriend, that is a profound, profound misappropriation of his responsibilities -- and that, for me, would be a
big issue.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives (INAUDIBLE) two years ago, a victim in her early 50s, who had recently made the transition from male to female,
agreed to move in with a couple she met online, David Rodriguez Jr. and his wife, Christina Harper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim became enslaved by these folks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forced to do daily chores, hard labor, with sexual acts, with beatings as part of punishment, at times shot with a stun
gun, doused in urine and initials were carved into the skin on her backside. Her condition worsened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chained her outside for two days and nights, nude in the woods, with no food, no water. She was put in a CarMax storage
building in the backyard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, the behavior bureau, Judy, Segun and Wendy.
There was even a third person in addition to the couple accused of the crime. The woman on right, Amber Lomas (ph).
Sam, what else do we know?
SCHACHER: So, she was branded with a bar code. It was tattooed on her. And if you were to scan it right now, Dr. Drew, with your iPhone, it
would direct you to a Web site, where she was registered as their property. Very eerie, very chilling.
PINSKY: Wow!
SCHACHER: Yes. Now, she did escape two years later. They found her alongside a highway with a logging chain around her neck.
PINSKY: What`s a logging chain?
SCHACHER: I can imagine something where they kept her captive.
PINSKY: This is incredible.
The victim first was somehow willing and participating with this couple. Here in Facebook photos, I don`t see the other one. Where is the
third one? They claim, though, this is the couple that claimed she was willing.
Segun, do you buy it?
ODUOLOWU: No, not even in the slightest. Look, I grew up below the Mason/Dixon line. If you go hunting for deer, don`t wear antlers. If you
subscribe to a sex Web site and basically say you`re a bondage and masochistic Web site, and have them move you from your home to their own,
you don`t get to say, well, the sex got too kinky when you`re looking --
WALSH: What?
(CROSSTALK)
HO: No, no, no.
ODUOLOWU: I`m not buying it.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I`m sorry, I don`t have enough empathy in me not to laugh at how funny this sounds.
PINSKY: What?
ODUOLOWU: She was 50 years old. She knew better. Or if you don`t - - she knew better.
SCHACHER: There`s always boundaries. That`s insane!
PINSKY: Judy -- hold on, Wendy. I know you`re going to tell me what the appropriate boundaries should be. But, Judy, your thought?
HO: Well, I actually was looking around on Web sites that describe BDS and relationships and they still have boundaries.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
HO: There are limits and rules.
And even at the bottom, which this person is, she is still allowed to communicate, especially when there`s a case of emergency. Now, se was kept
in a three by five-foot wooden box at the foot of their bed for sleeping and all kinds of stuff that`s obviously violating the boundaries.
At one point, she may have been willing but they crossed the line when she was not able to communicate her needs.
ODUOLOWU: How do you know when that line was crossed?
HO: When they made her drink urine is when that was crossed.
ODUOLOWU: That`s what she said. I don`t buy anything that she said.
She moved down into their crazy nest. I actually thought it was an episode of true blood. I thought --
HO: No, Segun.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I was watching a TV show.
HO: It could have started out in a willing way.
PINSKY: Wendy, help. Help.
WALSH: OK.
PINSKY: I imagine this is -- to me, this is symptomatic with the Internet, how it`s desensitized us.
WALSH: Well, not just the Internet. You know, Dr. Drew, I see this trend of dangerous people parading to be BDS and relationships because of
"Fifty Shades of Grey" nonsense that permeated our culture.
If you`re actually in a true BDS and relationship, every activity has to be safe, sane and consensual. And you have to have code words because
the word, no, of course, is used in foreplay. So, you can`t use the word "no" or "stop" because "stop" is part of the excitement. You have other
code words that must be respected.
Also, all knots and ties must be self break and break free. What if somebody has a heart attack or there`s an earthquake or something happens
while you`re tied up? You have to be able to get yourself free. I also think that they --
ODUOLOWU: One of the safe words, I`m 50 and I shouldn`t be doing this?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: OK, I think it has a lot to do with it. They preyed on her, because this is somebody who -- hold on, Segun. Oh, my gosh.
They preyed on her. This is somebody who recently became transgender.
ODUOLOWU: You can`t say it with a straight face.
SCHACHER: This is somebody --you`re being so insensitive to this person who recently became transgender, and her family disowned her. She
was depressed, and then she gets move into this situation.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And there were two teenagers who had been removed from this home.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: So, something was going on here. I wonder why whoever removed them didn`t notice a box that somebody was living in at the end of
the bed.
ODUOLOWU: A trailer in the back.
PINSKY: But be that as it may, Segun, listen, let`s say even she was depressed and disassociated and couldn`t reflect what the boundaries should
be. It`s so extreme. Don`t you think at a certain point --
ODUOLOWU: No. Dr. Drew, no.
PINSKY: No, wait, wait, Segun. The other 50-year-olds have responsibility at some point for going too far?
ODUOLOWU: Well, listen, Dr. Drew, you know what, if I was willing to agree with Sam that it`s so tragic and sad that I`m being insensitive, she
was 50. It`s not like she came out as a teenager and her family disowned her. She came out when she was 50.
WALSH: No. Yes, she suffered her whole life.
ODUOLOWU: In the story, they go to move her from her state. It`s not as if they kidnapped her. They came up with moving vans and moved her
to their home. She did it willingly.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, make sense of this, please.
PINSKY: Judy, last thought. Judy, tell me what you`re thinking.
HO: Depression, anxiety, mental illness knows no age boundaries, Segun. That`s what I was going to say.
PINSKY: Here is the greatest concern about any of these things. We don`t know what went on with this threesome or foursome, as it eventually
was. And it may have started out as fun, may have gotten sick. I don`t know what happened here.
But what I do know is that it`s very common for people that are attracted to these sorts of extreme situations that they end up at some
point retraumatizing themselves and then they compulsively repeat the retraumatization and it`s very destructive for people.
So, if we learn nothing else here, is that people need to be reasonable and they need to be careful, all members of situations. Go have
fun but that if you are a trauma survivor, maybe talk to somebody before you engage, before you move, before you meet somebody off the Internet and
get in situations that you might lose control. How about that?
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable, hold that animosity in your heart for 12 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ralph Brooks is an elderly Alabama man whose son, Raymond, registered sex offender, was shot dead this weekend. Twelve years
after, Raymond, (inaudible) guilty to molesting an 8-year-old, a child that are affiliate WBRC says was related to both Brooks and this man, Jay Manor,
who has been charged with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard three shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three shots that allegedly left Raymond Brooks dead and left investigators trying to figure out if a crime from more than a decade
ago was the motive.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: It is our most tweeted story of the day. I`m back with Sam, Michelle, Jennifer and Jason. Ellis, you`re a
SiriusXM radio host. Registered sex offender Raymond Brooks was living with his parents when he was shot and killed this weekend. The police say his
killer is a very close relative of the 8-year-old whom Brooks had molested more than ten years ago. Sam, other details.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: Yeah. So, Raymond Brooks pled guilty to first-degree sexual assault back in 2002. OK? So, he was
sentenced to five years...
PINSKY: To an 8-year-old.
SCHACHER: Yes. To an 8-year-old little girl.
PINSKY: To sexual abuse of an 8-year-old.
SCHACHER: The victim was an 8-year-old little girl. Now, he was sentenced to 5 years. He released after 72 months with probation. Now, even though he
served his time, people are now rallying behind the shooter.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SCHACHER: So, everyone on social media is definitely celebrating the shooter.
PINSKY: Let me pick somebody off my panel who might be rallying behind the shooter. Oh, Michelle. Michelle, how do you feel about this?
MICHELLE FIELDS: Well, I`m not rallying around the shooter. I think what the shooter did was absolutely terrible. They shouldn`t have done it.
However, imagine if you have a loved one who is 7, 8 years old, 7, 8-year- old girl, she is sexually molested and the guy who did it, was basically all he did was get a slap on the wrist, because that`s what it was. Sam,
you said 72 months from my understanding, it was 27 months.
SCHACHER: It was 72.
FIELDS: OK. He was on probation. He paid a fine and then, he was out. This guy should be in jail forever.
PINSKY: Yeah. I`m surprised. Jason, I`m actually surprise this kind of thing doesn`t happen more often. I really think people are just so angry
when this sort of thing happens, and reasonably so. I am not going to say it`s OK with this guy did but I understand it.
JASON ELLIS: It`s not fair. It`s not. I feel like, because of the way I look, my next comment is -- you`re going to judge me. But if I`m related to
an 8-year-old and you molest her, let`s say you go to jail for 30 years. When you come out, I`m going to kill you. If you`re stay for 50, I hope I`m
still alive because when you come out, I`m going to kill you. I don`t care how many times you`re reprimanded for it. You ruined that person`s life.
They might not ever get over it. So, they`ve got a life sentence because you`re a gross paedophile? I`ll kill you.
PINSKY: Jason, do you want to share why you have such strong feelings about this?
ELLIS: Because I`ve been molested and my whole life is ruined. I mean, I turned it around, but I`ve still got massive problems. Look at me!
PINSKY: Well, but you`re my bud. You`re a good guy, and you`ve done a lot. You`re fine in reality.
ELLIS: It`s hard. It`s everyday. It`s with you for the rest of your life. You never -- you think you`re past it, and then another wall hits you. I`m
42. I now know that it`s never over. I`m always gonna have to deal with it.
PINSKY: That`s what I want you to share with people. We say glibly it`s the gift that keeps on giving, because -- and that`s not meant to be funny.
It`s because this happens -- one time happens and it is a lifetime of repercussions.
ELLIS: I know it`s irresponsible to say somebody deserves to die, but I`m just saying...
PINSKY: It`s how you feel.
ELLIS: My position, that`s what I would do.
PINSKY: Jennifer, I`m going to ask you this. Just prior to the shooting of the sex offender, the gunman reportedly fired shot -- fired shots at
another man who had been dating his stepdaughter. I guess it`s like -- he went to a pizza shop, or something, and just start shooting at this guy and
then got the sex offender. It sounds to me like something else -- not to, always, Michelle, I`m sorry bring in mental illness, but it sounds to me,
Jennifer, like something more is going on here not just the resentment toward the sexual offender.
JENNIFER KEITT: I would have agreed with you. I`m leaning on a heart and head position right here. My heart is saying that he was a protector. He
was out to get anybody who was messing with anyone that was related to him. But I`ll be honest with you, Dr. Drew, while -- I am just appalled at what
happened, I can`t agree with taking a human life. I can`t agree with vigilante justice.
ELLIS: I`ll do it for you.
KEITT: And I hear -- I am working with -- I am working with sex -- women who have been sexually abused. I know the struggle. But I cannot agree that
we all take matters into our own hands by shooting up gas stations and/or going to kill people.
PINSKY: No, that`s right.
KEITT: That can`t be the answer, while my heart aches.
PINSKY: And I don`t believe -- and while, Jason, feels like he would do that, even I believe -- even, Jason, I believe, would let the system work.
I hope you would. No?
ELLIS: No.
PINSKY: No. Michelle, you would let the system work?
KEITT: Wow!
FIELDS: Well, I would like to think I would let the system work, but I don`t know. If it was a loved one and you got a -- the person who preyed
upon them got a slap on the wrist, I don`t know what I would do. I would probably go out on the streets and riot. I don`t know if I would kill
someone, but I can understand what the loved one is thinking. I mean, they feel as though the system failed on them and there was no justice. You go
to the court thinking you`re going to get justice and nothing happened to their loved one. Basically this is a slap on the wrist to this guy.
PINSKY: Who knew that Michelle and Jason are the same people? They look different but same stuff going on there. Here is my thing. There`s no
resolving this. I bet everyone is sympathetic to what this guy did. I agree with, Jennifer, personally, but I am sympathetic to what this guy did. The
fact is -- and this is the point to be made here is that sexual abuse is so common today. Please do not think this is an uncommon thing. And if it`s
something that has happened to you and you feel like you are over it, understand that it is something that really has to be treated to be over
it. It`s a piece of your self that gets walled off from the rest and operates and sits there, creating symptoms and motivations that you may not
understand. Amongst them is the competitive -- compulsive, re-enactment of trouble. That last story we had about the sex slave and whatnot, this kind
of amnesty (ph) in history sometimes sits in the background to set up that kind of nonsense. The fact is that this is common. It is treatable. But we
have gone through an absolute epidemic of these kinds of experiences in childhood, and it is profound. We must address it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam. Sam, it`s another sex offender story. This time it is a registered sex offender who`s being shut out of her daughter`s high
school graduation. In 2010, Linda Lusk, was charged with having molested her daughter`s classmate, a 14-year-old boy, she served only 90 days in
jail, completed probation, but she is a registered sex offender. Her kid`s school will not allow her on campus. Listen to what she told ABC News.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LINDA LUSK, REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER: I`ve got my haters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone deserves to know that she is a sex offender.
LUSK: We`ve all made mistakes and I`ve paid for them. And I`m not a threat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the teenage boy?
LUSK: I feel very bad for what happened. But I don`t think he has ever accepted responsibility for what he did. Every time I ask to attend
something, it`s just denied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seeing her own daughter graduate at the end of this senior year.
LUSK: I have a right to be involved in my kid`s life. There`s no way that they`re going to keep me, even if I get arrested, I`m going to my
daughter`s graduation.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Michelle, Judy are back. Joining us, actress Jaclyn Betham from Tyler Perry`s The Have and Have Nots, Tuesday on Own channel. Michelle, we
were hearing that the sexual abuse may not really have been sexual abuse. There`s all kinds of questions about what went on. Let`s face it, whatever
it was, it wasn`t good. The question though, is she still a threat?
FIELDS: OK. Well, even if it was consensual, the boy was 14 years old.
PINSKY: No, no, no, no.
FIELDS: He was 14 years old.
PINSKY: There is no consenting at 14. If they had sex, that is predation, period, but we`re hearing that it`s like the child -- we`re hearing all
kinds of goofy story that they almost didn`t even touch apparently but even so, there was some boundaries seemingly violated. The mom should not have
been in this situation with the 14-year-old at all.
FIELDS: Well, no. She shouldn`t be allowed on school property. If the school decides they don`t want her there, well, that`s their decision. If
they don`t want her there, she shouldn`t be there. If I was a parent who had a child in that school, I wouldn`t want her there. She is crazy. Listen
to the interview with her. She`s saying that the boy hasn`t accepted responsibility? That just shows how twisted she still is. No, she shouldn`t
be allowed near any kids or any school. If she wanted to go to her child`s graduation, maybe she shouldn`t have had a relationship with a 14-year-old
boy.
SCHACHER: Yeah. Her daughter`s ex-boyfriend at that -- what really pissed me off about this, she took the plea deal. She decided, OK I`m only gonna
serve two months -- two moths in jail. I will register myself as a low- level sex offender. Can you imagine if the genders were reversed and it was a 40-year-old man who performed oral sex on a 13-year-old girl?
PINSKY: Is that what happened?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Yes. A, we would all be outraged that this perp only served two months and, B, that they`re now complaining about having to comply with the
sexual offender laws. Give me a break.
PINSKY: I agree. And this woman did not attend the daughter`s graduation in a long run. She wants however her daughter to leave the small town when she
goes to college because she told us, quote, the stigma that attached to me has punished her. How fair is that, Jaclyn?
FIELDS: Aw.
PINSKY: I know the daughter is being punished for the mom`s behavior does that matter?
JACLYN BETHAM, ACTRESS: Yeah. I think that it`s really important for the kids probably to move, because it`s almost like become this selfish thing
with this mother. She keeps hurting her kids in a sense that she can`t really be there for them. And I think if, you know, she would have gone to
the graduation -- thank God she decided not to, but if she would have, that would have been another selfish act.
PINSKY: I agree. I`m not sure she decided not to. They would not allow her go. But, Judy, they were moldable stressor is at the time that this --
whatever happened between she and the 14-year-old. She had (inaudible) 13 child which is a severely disabled child whom had just died. Usually, they
don`t live past one year. This woman had been taken care of the child into its early teens, and then it died. She was impaired at the time this all
went down. Is she at risk for reoffending?
JUDY HO, PH.D.: So, I am very sympathetic to what she went through. Imagine caring for a child who might die at any moment, right? So, that`s an
extreme stressor. However, when most of us are extremely stressed we don`t then go and aggress on a 14-year-old teenager.
PINSKY: Predations. Being a predator.
HO: Yeah. So, there`s something different about her. There`s something deeper than just I was going through stress and this is me acting
impulsively. And I don`t like the way that she hasn`t ever taken responsibility. She said I grazed his penis, and says if I gave her oral
sex...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s what I heard, that the child somehow aggressed on her...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: If there was anything overtly sexual of any sort that went on, I don`t care what the 14-year-old did. Guilty, no graduation. We`re back
after this. Got to go back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Michelle, Jason, and Jaclyn. We`re talking now an unbelievable story about eight graders forced in front of their class to
reveal their sexual history. That`s right. Here`s what happened. The teens were asked a series of questions about what they think is appropriate and
what they have done sexually and then they were first to go -- there were sort of signs across the room. Go in front of the sign that reflects what
you think is appropriate and then head on over to what you had done. Yeah. The sign said smiled at, hugged, kissed above the waist, below the waist
and all the way, like you are seeing there. Now, Jason, if your child -- and these were eight graders -- if your child were asked to do this and
you`re the parent, how would you react?
ELLIS: Teachers aren`t going to listen to me. So, I would just probably go to another school, because whoever is in charge of that school are a bunch
of morons, because if you put a 14-year-old under a sign where she says, I`ve gone all the way or above or below the waist, everybody in school now
knows.
PINSKY: Yeah.
ELLIS: And if I were to say everyone -- all the boys stand up. Who thinks they could win a fight, that`s bad. This is 1,000 times worse.
PINSKY: I totally agree. The middle school says, quote, the parents signed permission slips for the class. Look at the curriculum prior -- the
purpose. I understand they`re trying to open lines of communication between parents and students about dating expectations but they went beyond that,
Michelle, they made the kids reveal their sexual histories.
FIELDS: I`m sure that this was not included in the curriculum that they were given. This is such a stupid idea. We have so many kids graduating
high school who can`t even read or write in America and yet this is what we`re doing. We`re having kids stand behind sign that says that they`ve
gone all the way? If the teacher really wanted to do this, why wouldn`t she have the children fill out an anonymous survey online or what have you and
then collect the data and show it anonymously. You don`t do this. What kind of teachers are these people?
SCHACHER: Yeah. It`s absolutely outrageous because these 4, 13, 14-year- old, how embarrassing. So, they are essentially being shamed. They`re subject to ridicule from their peers if they say that they`ve gone all the
way, than they can be a slut. If they said they didn`t do anything at all, they can be called a prude. It`s absolutely not OK.
PINSKY: Yeah. Jaclyn, I feel like the teacher must have had an agenda. You know, sometimes people don`t really think about the children, of what`s
good for them. They feel like it`s an agenda. We have to talk about sex, sexuality. We have to make this conversation open, and that`s -- the
teacher`s agenda, not what`s good for the child.
BETHAM: Yeah. I know my teenage self, I would have been mortified. I mean, I was a virgin throughout all of high school. And so, if someone made me
say what I had done, I would have totally freaked out. And then there`s peer pressure. It`s so much -- I think, teenagers are so vulnerable at
putting that kind of pressure.
PINSKY: Jaclyn, you bring up an interesting point here, is that by revealing that a child is a virgin, she feels ashamed about being a virgin
and encouraged to give up her virginity. I mean, it cuts both ways. They`re either ashamed, Jason, as result of having gone all the way or if they`re
conservative with their values they`re ashamed for that as well.
BETHAM: Exactly.
ELLIS: Girls don`t talk about who they play around with. It`s rude. I think if you`re that age, it`s not even the parents` deal. You can`t tell
anybody. That`s your body. It`s your thing. Don`t let it out until you feel comfortable about it, definitely not at school with a sign over my head.
Are you out of your mind?
SCHACHER: What would you do if you found out your kids had to do this?
PINSKY: I would not be happy at all. I think I would get Jason Ellis and go make a visit to the administration.
ELLIS: Put them in an arm bar, Drew, like I told you today.
PINSKY: Check that out on Instagram.
FIELDS: What about me?
PINSKY: Michelle, you know, Michelle, if you were here locally, I would take you. In fact, you would be my secret weapon. So, here, talk to this
nice lady. And in the fact is, look, any time there`s an agenda with education or social engineering, whatever it is, it`s to the detriment of
the individuals that you`re claiming to serve. Go to people that are experts and ask them what`s good for young people and you will find that
mostly what they will say is don`t have an agenda. Just great open communication and let kids ask questions. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KALEB NATION: hold up. Hold up. Will you marry me?
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is our friend Kaleb Nation proposing to his girlfriend, Taylor, over the weekend. He asked in front of 12,000 screaming fans that
the DigiFest in New York, Kaleb and his new fiancee, Taylor Elizabeth join us now. Well, Taylor, were you really surprised as you looked or did you
have any idea this was coming?
TAYLOR ELIZABETH, BFFTAYLOR.COM: I had no idea. Everything pointed to it not happening this weekend. Everything could have -- that could have gone
wrong did go wrong. So, when we got up there, like, I had no idea what to do.
PINSKY: How is your dog, by the way? He looked a little freaked out.
ELIZABETH: She was fine. She was like, I`m over this. She was yawning. She was so done. She was ready to go play.
(CROSSTALK)
NATION: So, she is used to it.
SCHACHER: Yeah. And this video has completely gone viral. And Kaleb, Taylor made you wait 21 seconds before saying yes. Were those the longest 21
seconds of your life?
NATION: I knew she was going to say yes, because she`s like all the time.
PINSKY: Oh, Mr. Confident.
NATION: Well, for the past year, she`s been saying, when are we getting married? When is this gonna happen? And when are you going to propose? So,
I knew she was going to say yes. And so, I was like, I`m going to take my time and make it the best possible moment because I know.
PINSKY: And, Kaleb, why did you (inaudible)? What was it about that, just the enthusiasm of the crowd that you knew would be there or why did you
choose that moment?
NATION: That was part of it. That I also, Taylor and I, we met at a Youtube convention called Playlist Live many, many years ago in Florida, and then
at VidCon two years ago, another Youtube convention, she walked up to me and said date me and I pretty much did.
SCHACHER: I love it.
NATION: So, I was like, well, it`s another Youtube convention, we`re gonna be on stage in front of 12,000 people. It`s a perfect way to wrap up our
little story, so.
SCHACHER: Yeah. Full circle and I love that you involved the fans. Taylor, can we see the ring?
ELIZABETH: Oh, sparkle.
SCHACHER: Good job, Kaleb.
NATION: Well, thank you.
PINSKY: Of course, we need a couple more details, because Sam and I are expecting to be invited to the wedding.
SCHACHER: Yeah.
NATION: Of course.
PINSKY: And we need to know when and where this is going to be, and what the honeymoon plans are. We might even...
SCHACHER: Might join you on the honeymoon, too, depending where it`s at.
NATION: I don`t know about that, but...
PINSKY: We`re looking for a reason to go somewhere.
ELIZABETH: Don`t make plans October 2015.
PINSKY: October 2015, OK.
SCHACHER: Putting it in my calendar.
PINSKY: That`s a long engagement. A year and some months, yeah?
NATION: Oh, yeah.
PINSKY: What is it about October 2015?
NATION: Here is the thing. She`s been telling me for the past year. She said, OK, we`re getting married in October of 2015 after I graduate from
college.
PINSKY: Ah, that`s it. Got it.
NATION: And you just make sure you propose before then.
PINSKY: Got it.
SCHACHER: Are you going to live stream it?
ELIZABETH: We were talking about it.
NATION: We might actually live stream it. At least we`re going to film the whole thing of course.
PINSKY: Is she going to be now part of your Youtube sort of presence?
NATION: Oh, she has been. Like, she was actually...
PINSKY: But I mean...
NATION: More or so.
PINSKY: More or so.
NATION: We have a new show. It`s at youtube.com/nation. And its kind the story of her becoming nation and just our lives -- it`s like a weekly
reality show that we started doing.
PINSKY: Becoming nation, there you go guys.
SCHACHER: All right.
PINSKY: And best of luck to you. And thanks for showing this with us. I`m not making plans in October 2015, wherever this is gonna be, Sam and I will
be there.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: That`s it for us tonight. Please DVR us right now. Then you can watch us any time. Forensic Files is the show that follows this program,
and it begins right now.
END
