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Dr. Drew
A Woman Found Dead Following What Is Essentially A Routine Traffic Stop; Donald Trump On The Attack Again Against Another Enemy; A New Interview With Donald Trump And His Latest Target; A Man Head Butts A Bus; A Homeless Man Is Set On Fire While He Slept On The Streets Of Albuquerque
Aired July 22, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:00:14) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a woman found dead following what is essentially a routine traffic stop. We have the video
you have not seen. Plus, Donald Trump on the attack again against another enemy. It all starts -- We have that interview, but it all starts right
now with the "Top of the Feed."
Murder or suicide? Investigation under way. A woman was found hanged in her jail cell three days. Why she was there for three days is a little
unclear, but it was three days after an encounter with a Texas State Trooper. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN ENCINIA, TEXAS DPS OFFICER: Hello ma`am.
SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD IN HER CELL AT THE WALLER COUNTY JAIL: Hi.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Texas Highway Patrol. The reason for stop is you failed to signal for lane change. Got your driver`s license and insurance with
you? You give me a few minutes, all right? OK, ma`am. You OK?
SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD IN HER CELL AT THE WALLER COUNTY JAIL: I am waiting on you. This is your job. I am waiting on you. Whatever you
wanted me to do.
OFFICER ENCINIA: You seem very irritated?
BLAND: I am. I really am, because I feel like what I am getting a ticket for? I was getting out of your lane. You were speeding up tailing me, so
I moved over and you stop me -- So, yes, I am a little irritated but that does not stop you from giving me a ticket.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Are you done?
BLAND: You asked me what was wrong and I told you.
OFFICER ENCINIA: OK.
BLAND: So, now I am done, yeah.
OFFICER ENCINIA: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The exchange between the trooper and Sandra Bland escalates. And, now this tape has been edited for time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER ENCINIA: Do you mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you do not mind?
BLAND: I am in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?
OFFICER ENCINIA: Well, you can step out now.
BLAND: I do not have to step out of my car.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out of the car.
BLAND: No. You do not --
OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out of the car.
BLAND: No. You do not have the right.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out of the car.
BLAND: You do not have the right to that.
OFFICER ENCINIA: I do have the right. Now, step out or I will remove you.
BLAND: I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself --
OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out or I will remove you.
BLAND: I am getting removed for a failure to signal?
OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out or I will remove you. I am giving you a lawful order. I am going to yank you out of here.
BLAND: OK. You are going to yank me out of my car.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out.
BLAND: OK. All right. Do not touch me.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car.
BLAND: Do not touch me. I am not under arrest. You do not have the right to take me.
OFFICER ENCINIA: You are under arrest.
BLAND: I am under arrest for what?
OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car!
BLAND: And then you --
OFFICER ENCINIA: I will light you up. Get out!
BLAND: Wow!
OFFICER ENCINIA: Now!
BLAND: Wow!
OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car.
BLAND: Arrested for a failure to signal. You are doing all of this for a failure to signal.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Get over there.
BLAND: Right. Yes, let us take this to court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now that trooper is on administrative leave. Officials say he did not handle the arrest professionally. Joining us Anneelise Goetz,
attorney; Rolonda Watts, host of "Rolonda On Demand;" Mike Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC Radio co-host, host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN.
Via Skype, I have John Cardillo, former NYPD Police Officer and also host of "The John Cardillo Show" on 1290 WJNO and in the audience, Segun
Oduolowu, Entertainment Journalist.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Rolonda, is this more of the same? Is this guy go too far or did he behave appropriately?
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND": I think he went too far. I think it was a simple -- according to what he said, it was a simple
pullover for a simple change of lane violation. It should have never escalated to that point. I do not think --
PINSKY: Anneelise, I think people are watching tapes in social media where they are being told to not talk to cops, and roll your window up and you
have no obligation to talk to them. That is not necessarily true, is it?
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: It is not true. No. I mean what he did when he asked her to get out of the vehicle, while it is so annoying to watch
it, because he was the one that was escalating it.
PINSKY: It was painful --
GOETZ: And painful to watch.
PINSKY: Even though we know what plays out.
GOETZ: But when he asked her to step out of the vehicle, he had every right to do that. And, it is important that people understand that when an
officer tells you to step out of your house, step out of the vehicle, if they want to pat you down, all of that is legal.
That is a legal request, and so you need to follow it. And, if you want to have that fight, if you want to take this movement that we are seeing in
this country and push it forward, by all means do it, but do not do it when you are interacting with the cops.
PINSKY: So do not do it in the field. Do it in the courtroom later.
GOETZ: Do it in the court. Do demonstrations.
PINSKY: But is not it correct that you cannot obstruct them in the normal course of operation. Whatever is they are doing, you cannot interfere with
it anyway, right? That is the law.
GOETZ: That is correct. So, we provide a lot of protections to police, to law enforcement. And, we want them to be able to feel secure when they are
performing their job.
PINSKY: Now, Mike, you used to be in trouble with cops all the time.
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: Yes.
PINSKY: All the time.
CATHERWOOD: All the time.
PINSKY: All the time.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: People think you are the nice clean-cut guy we see here today, but it is not always --
CATHERWOOD: Well, I am, but I used to be in trouble with the cops.
PINSKY: And, how is it now when you deal with the cops? When you drive home in the middle of the night from "Love Line" and cops stop you --
CATHERWOOD: I still get pulled often.
PINSKY: Yes. Tats all over your arm.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: They want to get at you.
CATHERWOOD: Well, it goes very well, because I do everything they say, and I -- you know, I never resist.
PINSKY: Years ago how did it go?
CATHERWOOD: You know, I have had a lot of really brutal run-ins with police officers in the past. And, every single one of those times I was A.
Committing crimes, and being enable, you know? It was 100 percent of the time.
I mean I had really bad run in. I got my nose broken, you know, by police officers, and, you know, I was yelling at a cop. You know, I was yelling
at a cop and screaming at him.
[21:05:04] PINSKY: They smashed you?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. I was already handcuffed and had gone thrown down on the ground -- so, my face on the ground. And -- Look, that is terrible. But,
I kind of dug my own grave, pardon the pun this young lady has passed now. But, you know, everyone talks about how this cop escalated this situation.
I do not see that happen at all. I see her escalating the situation.
WATTS: But this was a lady, Dr. Drew. That is what I do not understand.
PINSKY: What?
WATTS: Why would she yank out of the car? I do not understand it. Because she did not put her cigarette out in her own car?
PINSKY: But, before get on, let me show you the arrest. Because this is the part that gets a little hard to watch. This is a little edited down
for time. But then Segun, I understand you had a quite of emotional response, just even listening to this in the car. So, let me show the
audience this particular tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER ENCINIA: Put your hands behind your back and turn around.
BLAND: Why am I being arrested?
OFFICER ENCINIA: Turn around.
BLAND: Why cannot you tell me, why?
OFFICER ENCINIA: I am giving you a lawful order. I will tell you.
BLAND: Why am I being arrested? Tell me what is going on.
OFFICER ENCINIA: You are not complying.
BLAND: I am not complying because you just pulled me out of my car.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Turn around!
BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE WORD) kidding me? This is some (EXPLETIVE WORD).
OFFICER ENCINIA: Put your hand behind your back.
BLAND: You are about to break my wrist. Can you stop.
OFFICER ENCINIA: Stop moving.
BLAND: You are about to (EXPLETIVE WORD) break my wrist. Stop! Stop!
OFFICER ENCINIA: Stop moving. Stop! Now!
BLAND: You are such a (EXPLETIVE WORD). You are such a (EXPLETIVE WORD).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Segun.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: I got to disagree with Mike when he says that the woman escalated this. If a cop says to me get out of my
car, I am going to light you up, that is a threat.
WATTS: That is right.
ODUOLOWU: What does that mean, light me up? So, I am with you, Anneelise - -
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Let me ask you, Segun. I would experience that as a statement of what is going to happen to me, which he is going to taze me if
I do not get out of the car or do something to me bad if I do not get out of the car.
ODUOLOWU: If you are going to say you want to taze me, say tazer. Light me up means you are going to shoot me.
WATTS: Shoot me, you better believe it.
ODUOLOWU: I have seen enough movies where light me up means that they are going to pull a gun on me. And, he says that, "I will light you up!" He
is yelling at a woman.
PINSKY: Get out of the car or -
ODUOLOWU: You know, this is a lady, this is not a woman that is bigger than him. This is not a grown man who is --
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Wait. Get out of the car or -- I am getting of the car. That is what I would do.
GOETZ: That is what she did.
ODUOLOWU: But what I am saying is, is the law -- She asked him why? Why are you -- And you are going to drag me out of the car? And, he says, I am
going to drag you out of the car.
But, if we want to excuse -- I mean if you want to excuse all that, which to me is ludicrous. I have been stopped enough times for just being black
in a car that had nothing to do with any law that --
PINSKY: But, Segun, so as he had been arrested for being brown having said.
ODUOLOWU: No. He said he dug his own grave by. He was doing something wrong.
PINSKY: No. No. Now, he gets stopped regularly at night when he is driving home from our radio show, regularly.
ODUOLOWU: That is not right either.
CATHERWOOD: No. But every time I get pulled over, I realized that it is a guy driving a car that looks inappropriate for me. I drive a luxury car
that most old men would drive, and --
ODUOLOWU: So, why stop you? Is not it appropriate for you to have a nice car? Because --
CATHERWOOD: No. No. But, my point is --
ODUOLOWU: It is not okay for me to drive a nice car.
CATHERWOOD: My point to you is that -- A lot of times the motivation for why a cop pulls someone over, we do not know that as citizens. A lot of
times they --
WATTS: This was changing lanes. This was changing lanes.
CATHERWOOD: What really is at the heart of the matter is that, you know, she was asked to get out of the car peacefully three or four times before
it got to the lighted up situation.
PINSKY: Let us see what the audience feel. Go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I feel like even from the very first sentence she said, when her attitude just protected everything. And, I
feel like she escalated it all herself. That is the --
PINSKY: And, there is a piece of this, that I worry about given how this all went down when the woman ends up killing herself is that, they do not
take into account what this person`s mental state might be. She may be ill.
She may be lit up on drugs. Why did not he ask for support? John Cardillo, you are still there. Let me ask you this. Why not a show of
force? Why not some of the way -- Other than really escalating it as a one on one kind of fight. Is it impossible to do that?
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD POLICE OFFICER: Well, I think it was a summary situation. She -- you know, it was not time to call backup. But there is
a big piece of this puzzle that the media is not reporting, Dr. Drew. And that is, this woman, historically, had multiple run-ins with the police.
She does not --
PINSKY: Wait. Wait, John, I could not hear you. I think you said this woman had multiple run-ins with the police. I do not know if that is true
or not. I want to get the connection straight with you and get that -- what you are reporting clear. Go to the audience first. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I disagree with the other audience member. I think that both the lady and the police really escalated the situation.
She should not have said she was irritated. If I get pulled over, I am as polite as possible. Being an African-American, I do not want to have any
situation like --
PINSKY: How does it go? How does it go with you and the police?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I do what is asked of me.
PINSKY: You think it feel good?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No, it does not feel good.
PINSKY: No, no, the things go good, though. I mean you have problems?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Things go well, yes. I mean I have been, but not for pulled over and --
PINSKY: For what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- or for switching lanes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Arrested for switching lanes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. I have not been arrested for that.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. I have not been arrested for that. And, I am always very polite.
PINSKY: Segun, your very thought about it.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, because I do not understand why I have to be something for them. Why cannot I just be like every other regular citizen?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Why do I have -- for the audience member to say her attitude. Why do I have to swallow all my stuff back to make the cops feel safe?
[21:10:00] CATHERWOOD: Because I think -- honestly, though, I think as the average regular citizen does not give that type of attitude to the
police.
WATTS: No. No. I think -- wait, wait, hold up. I think that --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Rolonda.
WATTS: I think the average citizen would ask, "Officer, why do I have to put my cigarette out?"
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
I mean, that is really was the question. I am in my car. You are on the outside. It is not like we are in a closed up room. Why do I have to put
my cigarette out?
CATHERWOOD: But if she said --
WATTS: I believe when that when she asked that question, he went off on his ego way. He went off on this power trip, this abusive power again,
like you are not going to talk to me that way, and the next thing you know --
ODUOLOWU: But Rolanda --
PINSKY: We got to stop here for the break. Got to stop. Got to stop. Sorry, it is good, I know. And, he was -- let us remind us, he was
relieved of duty. I think people agree with you, Rolanda. Next, we will continue. And, later, we got Donald Trump. A new interview. Back after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: I know it makes you feel real good. You are a real man now. You just slammed me, knocked my head in the ground. I got epilepsy you mother
(EXPLETIVE WORD).
OFFICER ENCINIA: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE TROOPER, You should have thought about that before you start resisting.
BLAND: Right. All right, yeah. This is real good. Real good for a female. Yeah.
OFFICER ENCINIA: I want you to wait right here. Wait right here.
BLAND: I cannot go nowhere with your (EXPLETIVE WORD) knee on my back. Duh!
OFFICER ENCINIA: You need to leave. You need to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE PASSERBY: I cannot hear you.
OFFICER ENCINIA: You need to leave.
BLAND: All of this for a traffic signal. I swear to God. All of this for a traffic signal. Thank you for recording.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We were talking about the arrest of Sandra Bland, pulled over for a simple traffic violation. Three days later she is found dead, hanged in
her jail cell. Police say suicide. Her family does not buy it.
Back with Anneelise, Rolonda, Mike, Segun. In the audience, I have now Larry Levine. He is a former inmate, himself. He is the founder of Wall
Street Prison Consultants. Larry, police say she used a plastic bag to hang herself without guard seeing any action going on. Is this a feasible
explanation for what happened to this woman?
LARRY LEVINE, FORMER INMATE/FORMER FOUNDER OF WALL STREET PRISON CONSULTANTS: Well, they have plastic bags inside the cell. The inmates
throughout the day are throwing out their meal items, their trash. Somebody comes in and takes the bag. And, remember, in the morning is when
this happened. After breakfast, the inmates, they go back to sleep. They do not have anything to do. So she could have hung herself.
PINSKY: Wait a minute. So, they go out to breakfast. The rest of them are out eating --
LEVINE: Well, no. You go to breakfast. They bring the breakfast to you,
PINSKY: Yes
LEVINE: They eat in the cell. And, then after you eat, you go back to sleep. You have nothing really to do.
PINSKY: But, were there other inmates around?
LEVINE: There were three other inmates in the cell with her.
PINSKY: And, she hung herself with other people around?
LEVINE: They were asleep.
PINSKY: Oh, I see.
LEVINE: That can happen.
PINSKY: This is the cell. We are looking at the cell right now. This is pretty tight quarters for her. Is she by herself in this piece of it,
Larry or are there other women right there in that bed?
LEVINE: Well, they are double bunked. There are bunk beds, but I have been in cell situations before where people tried to commit suicide
throughout the day. And, at night when everybody goes back to sleep, you mind your own business. I mean there is no T.V. in there. So, this could
have happened. And, remember, let us talk about conspiracy for a second.
Let us say that somebody did kill her in that cell. You could bet one of the other women would have rotted somebody out to get time off on their own
sentence. So, I am kind of believing what the cops said.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am? You have a comment here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: To be honest with you, I really just do not agree with the whole situation in itself. There is such thing as following
proper protocol. And, I do not care what the girl said to him, regardless, that officer did not follow proper protocol.
PINSKY: And, so when you see what he did, how did you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: To be honest, it makes me feel upset inside. And, for a man to do that for a woman, it is ridiculous, really
unforgivable. To be honest, cops are supposed to serve and protect.
PINSKY: Is this sexism? Is it racism? Is it just an oversell --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: To be honest with you, I think he was really like -- you what, I have said, using his power. He was using his power to
basically defend himself in a situation where he was obviously wrong.
CATHERWOOD: But, what choice does he have?
WATTS: Well, here is a choice. He could have said, "OK, lady. Go on, smoke your cigarette. Here is your violation on your warning or whatever.
Go on about your business."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Or no, how about, "Sit here, while I call for backup."
WATTS: Right.
PINSKY: See, that is --
WATTS: Just, go on lady.
CATHERWOOD: But, we really do not know. I do not want to see this -- the fact that this young lady is dead is horrible. And, the fact that there is
without a doubt discrimination that exists between certain ethnicities, certain people with a certain color of skin and the law enforcement is
without a doubt and it is terrible.
But at the same time, you know, it is not as if she was this polite woman. She said, "Why do I have to put out my cigarette." She said, "I refuse to
do anything you tell me except give you my identification."
PINSKY: Segun.
CATHERWOOD: And, we do not know. We are not law enforcement officers. We do not know why he wanted her to get out of the car. Perhaps, he
suspected, there was a firearm in there.
Perhaps, she suspected there were drugs in there. But, either way, when a cop asks you to get out of a car and you will not, time after time you
refuse, what other choice did he have except for physically take her out of the car?
PINSKY: Segun?
ODUOLOWU: Yes. I do not think it is racism and I do not think it is sexism. I think it is ugly. It is all ugly. And, it is not a horrible
thing that she was arrested -- the tragedy is that she is dead.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: The horrible thing is that, it happens more often than most people think. And, if you do not like the answer that she gave him, do not
ask that dumb stupid question. Why do you look irritated? You asked for my information. Why are you irritated? I told you why.
If you do not like my answer, you do not get to get mad and drag me out of the car. Do not ask a dumb question, if you do not want an answer that you
do not like. So, I have a problem with the cop. And, if the cop`s protocol -- if he did what he was supposed to do, the administration does
not suspend him.
WATTS: That is right.
ODUOLOWU: So, it means he did not follow the police protocol.
WATTS: That is right.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: That is not always. I mean there is PR nightmares that get cops in trouble even if they are not necessarily at fault.
ODUOLOWU: Mike, I am going to go back to "I will light you up." And, to be that is the ugliest thing in the whole tape. I do not care what --
CATHERWOOD: Listen, there --
PINSKY: We have friends that had been misbehaving.
CATHERWOOD: I have watched that. There were a lot worse.
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: Do not taze me, bro. I will taze you.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Look. I get that. I will light you up? You are --
[21:20:00] PINSKY: Segun, you know what is right? Segun, you have not had much interaction with the cops.
ODUOLOWU: I have had too much interaction with the cops.
PINSKY: No. No, not the kind of Mike has had.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Maybe Segun is probably a lot better citizen than I certainly was.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: But, also, do you remember the young lady, who she was on -- she was on a television show, she is like a character actor, but recently
here in Los Angeles.
PINSKY: She made a big issue -- Yes.
CATHERWOOD: She is refusing and making this huge issue.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: You know, those cops -- they dealt with almost a very similar situation.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Refusing to get out of the car, refusing to listen.
PINSKY: And they were very circumstance.
CATHERWOOD: And they handled it in a much more kind of a pacifist fashion.
PINSKY: Yes, you are right.
CATHERWOOD: So, I mean, obviously, this cop`s attitude, his personality did not jive well with this situation. But, at the same time, let us
remember, she was not cooperating with a police officer and not allowing him to do his job.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I had a similar experience years ago. I was driving too fast, so I was in the wrong and I was pulled over. And, I was
already very upset. I was going to see my father, who is dying of cancer, and I just wanted to get there.
And, so when the officer said the same thing to me like "Oh, you are copping an attitude with me." And I said, "Look, I just need to get 10
miles down the road to see my father before he passes away, do you mind?"
PINSKY: What did he say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Oh, he was really angry with me.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: He did not pull me out of the car, but when I went to court, he had written on the ticket that I had a terrible
attitude. And that I was a bad citizen and deserved to have the book thrown at me.
PINSKY: Larry, you have been a bad citizen.
LEVINE: I have.
PINSKY: Yes. You have had some interactions with the police that had not been particularly pleasant, right?
LEVINE: Rather a law enforcement authority.
PINSKY: Right. And, what is your advice to people that are getting stopped by cops?
LEVINE: Well, first of all, the cigarette issue. It is called officer safety. She was already belligerent. She was hostile. She could have
taken that cigarette -- remember, I am not here to defend the cops at all, but I know protocol. She could have taken the cigarettes -- she could have
burnt him with it. She could have attacked him with it. All she had to do was take it out --
PINSKY: People are laughing at that.
ODUOLOWU: Larry, from a seated position, she is going to leap from the car --
WATTS: Right.
ODUOLOWU: -- with a cigarettes with a man who has a gun and a taser?
LEVINE: She is going to put it on the officer and burn him.
WATTS: That is a big threat against a taser and a gun.
(CROSSTALK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
ODUOLOWU: Their gun.
LEVINE: Officer safety is what comes first.
WATTS: Big, big difference.
LEVINE: Officer safety is what comes first. She did not comply with him.
ODUOLOWU: Larry --
LEVINE: Therefore, he was justified.
ODUOLOWU: Larry, with all due respect, if it is officer safety, why drag her to get out of the car? If you are so afraid for your safety, why tell
her to get out. In the car she is a little bit safer to you than out of the car. So, why ask her to come out?
PINSKY: No. I think that is exactly the point. I think they are trained to get them out of the vehicle. Right?
LEVINE: Well, he wanted to pat her down. Shake her down for weapons.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Shake her down?
PINSKY: Let me go to the audience.
ODUOLOWU: I agree with the shakedown part.
PINSKY: Larry is no fan of the cops. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes. I just wanted to point out that later on, she died in the cell. But, she does not seem to me to be a quitter,
and that is what people who murdered themselves are, they have quit on life. And, so --
PINSKY: I am sorry for --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: She seems to be a fighter.
PINSKY: It is a little more complicated than that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I understand that., but she seems to be a fighter. You see her energy. I do not think she would just give up on
life. She seems to me a wonderful person.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: She just seems to me to be the person that would fight -- will just yell at the police for hours in that cell.
PINSKY: You are making a point that is actually well significant, which is that to me she seemed manic. And patients -- and she had a history of
depression. She had a history of suicide. I have a report from that police -- the police -- she had tried to kill herself with pills, she says
in this police report in the intake to the jail.
So, my fear is that this poor woman had bipolar disorder, that he was manic. What he sees as a fighter, I see as hypomania. And, bipolar is in
a manic state or much more likely to kill themselves than in even repressed state. So, this is a situation that in my opinion was a medical problem
that was completely unattended to.
And that is not OK either. So, as a physician, I am deeply concerned about that. That is the -- from the beginning where there should have been a
show of force throughout her three days, where she should have had a medical evaluation. They failed her.
Next, a new interview with Donald Trump and his latest target, after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:24:07] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Politicians are never going to turn this country around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I see Rick Perry the other day, and he is so -- you know, he is doing very poorly in the polls. He put glasses on so people would think he
is smart. And, it just does not work. People can see through the glasses.
(LAUGHING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You have this guy, Lindsey Graham, a total lightweight. Here is a guy in the private sector, who could not get a job, believe me. He could
not get a job. Senator, what a stiff. What a stiff. I did not start it with Lindsey Graham, I could not care less about him, Lindsey Graham.
He is registered, I think zero in the polls, by Rick Perry from Texas, who was up in my office a few years ago and just post a picture of him shaking
my hands, looking for money and looking for support. And he was -- you know, people will say, Yes, I call him hypocrite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My tone is not nice. My tone? We need tone. We need enthusiasm. We need tone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST OF AC360: As a president, you would change your tone?
TRUMP: I think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We have breaking news, as well, right now regarding Donald Trump. I am back with Anneelise, Rolonda, Mike, Segun. Butler County Ohio Sheriff
Richard Jones, a friend of this show, has been contacted by the Trump campaign about meeting on immigration issues. Sheriff Jones is on the
phone with me right now. Sheriff, how is it that you are going to help the Trump operation?
RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY OHIO SHERIFF: Well, I am going to listen to him and hear what he has to say. People are underestimating thing guy. I
have never watched his shows in my life. I am not a big fan of any of his shows. I do not watch his shows.
And, when he first came in, I was like everybody else. People are underestimating this guy. He got the oxygen in all of the room, whether
you like him or not. The people are so hungry. What I am going to do is I am going to meet with him -- and discuss with him the concern that
everybody has in America with this immigration.
The republicans have let it go. And they cannot fix it. And, he is the only one talking about it. Watch the rest of them of him Dr. Drew. They
are start talking about immigration because they have to.
[21:30:00] PINSKY: And, sheriff, what is it that is at issue in your county. You are in Ohio, right?
SHERIFF JONES: It is Ohio. I am on the National Sheriff`s Immigration Committee. It is the Interstate. Georgia has a problem with it. South
Carolina has a problem with it. Ohio has a problem with it. The problems we have is our prisons are full.
Governor Kasich can address that. He is running for president. The jail - - the prisons are full. 10 percent, 20 percent of illegals were end up in the prison system. The jails in our county in Ohio, we have had -- I know
of one little girl that was molested by an illegal that came here, she was 9 years old.
He molested her. Then he sent her home with no clothes on. I know of more than one that was killed in a car accident. I know of a lady that is a
paraplegic that was knocked out of her wheelchair. It is going to work, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Sheriff --
SHERIFF JONES: And, the person will have the same.
PINSKY: Sheriff, I am going to interrupt you. I thank you for giving us this update. I am fascinated by what it is you are going to learn from his
organization. I please hope you will report back to us after your meeting. OK?
SHERIFF JONES: Hey, it is done, Dr. Drew. Thanks a lot.
PINSKY: Thanks, sheriff.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
This man has been -- Mr. Trump has been surging in the polls released Monday. But in the last day of the poll, the lead seemed to have
evaporated. And, now in new poll, voters said they viewed him unfavorably by almost 2-1. Hillary Clinton doing just slightly better. Here is what
Trump said to Anderson Cooper. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I mean, I have turned a lot of them around. As you know, in North Carolina, it was negative and now it is like tremendously positive. And,
when people hear what I say about the vets and how strong my commitment is to the vets. They have been treated so badly and to the border, which is
just horrible. I mean every time people listen to me, all of a sudden it becomes very favorable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. I want to hear from my audience. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I think America is ready for a change. And, as far as America and corporation and if we look at trump As a businessman,
he has been very successful. And, I think that we need a leader that is very successful leader and also who is not doing it for the money.
And, like he said, many people have come after -- like many other politicians have come to him for money for special favors. I do not think
he would be a puppet. And, when I look at him, I feel like he speaks from the heart and he seems very real and very --
PINSKY: Stay right there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Well, Hillary Clinton seems like a puppet.
PINSKY: Hold it right there. No, but listen, I have had -- how many dozens of people, Rolonda, that have stood in that spot --
WATTS: That is right.
PINSKY: -- and said the exact -- she said all of it in one long statement.
WATTS: That is right. Listen, that is why they call him the Donald. I have known him for 30 something years, and he has been the same way.
PINSKY: Explain to this young lady how you experienced him. Let us see if that change -- No, no, Bert. Let her have the mic back. Give it to her.
Explain how you have experienced him. Let us see if it changes her attitude.
WATTS: Well, back in the `80s long before you were born, I was covering Donald Trump as a New York City news reporter. Nobody knew who Donald
Trump was.
PINSKY: Oh, there is your picture.
WATTS: There it is. There he is, the Donald. Let me tell you --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: How have you not aged one bit?
WATTS: Thank you.
PINSKY: It is crazy.
WATTS: He would stage things on the weekend because he knew the news was slow. So, he would stage anything on the weekend. It got to a point where
during the week, I would see him. And I would say, "OK, Donald. We are going to see you this weekend?" "Absolutely."
And, that is how he built who he was. He is the showman. He is great at what he does. And, I do not care what you think about Donald Trump, he has
made these preliminaries exciting.
PINSKY: Go ahead. Yes, ma`am.
WATTS: And, he is giving hope to people who want somebody to not be a politician.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Do you see Hillary Clinton doing it because she cares? Because he does not need money. He does not need fame.
WATTS: I think he is doing it because he has plan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: He does not need power. He has more power than Hillary Clinton.
CATHERWOOD: You have to understand. As rich as he is, Donald Trump is most definitely going to receive campaign finance. It is not as if he is
funding this entire thing all on his own.
PINSKY: He claim he is. He claims he is.
CATHERWOOD: People say he Is not doing it for the money. He does not need the money. He certainly does not need the money, but this is going to be,
regardless of how he does, this is going to be the greatest financial gain --
PINSKY: Maybe.
CATHEWOOD: -- ever created for Donald Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: He does make a lot of money a year.
PINSKY: No, no, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- $50,000 per year.
CATHERWOOD: Guys who run for president and lose and create this much media storm get a lot of money.
PINSKY: Segun. Hold on. Hold it. Segun.
ODUOLOWU: I feel like I am in like opposite day crazy town. The people that love Trump.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
ODUOLOWU: The people that love Trump and say he is a great businessman, he has gone bankrupt a couple of times. So, let us stop all that.
WATTS: But he has gotten out of it.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second.
WATTS: He came out of it.
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. He also started with $500 million that he got from his dad. So, let us stop that he is a great
businessman.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: And stayed in the same industry.
ODUOLOWU: Right.
CATHERWOOD: The $500 million, he continued with --
ODUOLOWU: Thank you. It is not hard to be a real estate mogul.
CATHERWOOD: He is not an outlaw.
ODUOLOWU: His dad is a real estate empire. So, come on.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No, but a lot of other people that started off the back of their families and ended up going downhill.
CATHERWOOD: No one -- No one --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And, he is a great businessman.
CATHERWOOD: No one begrudges Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: He is a billionaire.
CATHERWOOD: Nobody begrudges him for his success, but the idea that because he was able to cobble together the Trump Towers and his other real
estate developments and also be a very successful entertainer does not in any way make him somehow better at -- the finances and the fiscal needs of
a country.
[21:35:09]
PINSKY: You know what?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- as much experience like Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton run off at the back of her husband.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: She was the secretary of state, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: You are saying that he went off the back of his father.
ODUOLOWU: Hillary Clinton was the Senator of New York. She was the senator of New York.
PINSKY: I talked to my audience while these guys fighting out. They are still going. There we go. Yes, they are still going. That is right.
They are probably go all the way into the breaks. So, go ahead, guys. Go ahead, have had it.
Later, a man head butts a bus. I will tell you about that. And, we will continue this conversation. We will be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am doing this for the good of the country. Somebody has to do it. Politicians are never going to turn this country around. Our country
is a mess. The politicians are going to destroy this country. They are weak and they are ineffective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I love the fact that he is an anti-P.C. candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So , when -- if you are president of the United States, you are going to hit by half the country.
TRUMP: That is true. That is true.
COOPER: Are you going to call them dumb or stupid?
TRUMP: No. I think it is a little bit different. Right now, I am trying to do something to make the country great again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He is unfiltered. He is off the cuff. are never going to turn this country around. Our country is a mess. The
politicians are going to destroy this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. They are sending people that have lots of problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Those negative comments against Mexican-Americans and Latonos is going to make Latinos rise up and shine.
We will prove them wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Trump says he is worth $10 billion. Here is a few of the items of from the 92 page disclosure document he put out. "Real estate holding of
over $50 million. Speaking fees of $450,000. Gold worth $250,000. 14 seasons of "The Apprentice" worth $213 million."
Back with Anneelise, Rolonda, Mike and Segun. I got John Cardillo, still on the phone. You have been listening to all this. I want to get your
thoughts. Go ahead.
CARDILLO: Well, you know, as somebody who analyzes politics, where I did for my media days for the republicans and conservative candidates, whether
or not Donald Trump ever holds public offices irrelevant.
WATTS: That is right.
CARDILLO: Because he has done something no one before him has been able to do.
WATTS: That is right.
CARDILLO: He is forced a narrative change on the Republican Party. He is completely thrown their idea of what the primary was going to be on its
head. -- had Jeb Bush at the heir apparent. That is gone. That is gone. Bush is not even viable anymore, because Trump is echoing the sentiments of
many Americans, especially republicans.
And, now republican base voters are turning on the party saying, "Damn straight. This is how we feel. What are you going to do about it?" If
the GOP has no answers, and the dems have no answers, because Trump does not know their platform, despite having been a pretty big Hillary Clinton
supporter.
I do not believe he is a conservative, but I really like the character he is playing. But we are a lot like, we amused him as an anti-gun guy that I
love his character he is taking --
PINSKY: John, thank you. Anneelise -- the character he is playing, john says.
GOETZ: I could not agree with him more. I think what is really going on is he is putting on a show for us. And, what he is doing is --
PINSKY: That is what Rolonda keeps saying.
WATTS: Absolutely.
GOETZ: Yes. He puts on a show. He makes these big, bold statements and what happens is that we all kind of tune in to see what else he is going to
say, what else he is going to do. And, then he has some interesting policy behind those big, bold statements.
But the fact to the matter is, you cannot have a diplomat just off the cuff ripping things off like that. It is not for the long haul. It is not the
good way to go. But for the race, it is creating an interesting dialogue.
PINSKY: I remember people saying that about Reagan when he went to Rico Jay (ph).
WATTS: We do not really know what his strategy is.
PINSKY: No, we do not.
WATTS: We do not know what his strategy is.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am just amazed that all these financially challenged people, who seemed to fall behind Trump, who is a
billionaire. Is not it like this is some world edition of "The Apprentice," where he will going to be like, "You get a billion. You get a
building. You get car."
He does not even know the American people for the general part. We are not on his yacht. He does not know what is in need of the free world. I
cannot even believe people are actually entertaining this.
PINSKY: So, you feel uncomfortable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is not some big monopoly game.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. You want to talk, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: No. No. I mean I think she is exactly right. I think for a primary, if we analyze it like a reality show, Donald Trump has done
something remarkable.
WATTS: Magnificent.
CATHERWOOD: And, he has galvanized a relatively stagnant representation in the media, that being the Republican Party. But, how is that going to play
out as a president of the United States?
And I mean, it does seem like a Sasha Baron Cohen movie, like the idea of him actually being the president. But, you cannot in any way take away
from his ability to have absolutely captured and captivated this country through this entire process.
WATTS: I think it would shock him too if he won.
(LAUGHING)
GOETZ: I think he has changed the dialogue, but I think he is a nightmare as far as republicans, because he is making them take positions they do not
want to take right now. And, he is forcing them to have a conversation that they do not want to have. And, you know, he is saying these really
outrageous things and they have to somehow respond. While also noting he got some movement behind him.
PINSKY: And, Segun, people cannot take their eyes off him. I heard Howard Stern this morning say, he only watches cable news when they are discussing
Donald Trump, otherwise he tunes out.
ODUOLOWU: Yes. I have been saying for the longest time that he is a double agent. He is galvanizing, not the Republican Party. He is
galvanizing the opposition. Because the people that he is -- All these things that he is bringing out -- you are right, the republicans now have
to talk about it, but it gives the democratic party, do you really want that? That is who is leading the polls. Do you want him? And, think
about it.
A billionaire candidate -- it is more powerful to be the man behind the presidency than it is to be the president. He is pulling the strings and
it is great to watch. But, yes, he would be a nightmare for foreign policy.
PINSKY: Let me play Jon Stewart what he said doing his best Donald Trump on Comedy Central.
WATTS: This is funny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STUART, LATE NIGHT SHOW HOST: And, you know what else, if I may, just a moment, and (EXPLETIVE WORD) cancer survivors, too. Let me tell you
something. No, hey! Let me just say this. Please, I like people who do not get cancer. I like --
(LAUGHING)
[21:45:00] Let me tell you something, I like winners. Those are the people whose bodies do not suffer from an uncontrollable division of
abnormal cells in fact in their organs. Those are the people we should be making wishes and running marathons for, winners.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: And, there is a breaking --
WATTS: Got that?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. Developing story regarding the Trump campaign, He will be going to the U.S.-Mexico border tomorrow, Laredo, Texas.
PINSKY: Well, that is what the sheriff was talking about.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, to get -- He is getting a tour with active border patrol agents. They are going to see and walk through a large stretch of the
border to give them a rundown of exactly what it is like in the day of a border patrol agent.
So, I mean, it is strange, though, how he has -- I will say that the thing that concerns me the most is how remiss in their duties the other
republican candidates have been, and not even attempting to fire back or deliver the same --
PINSKY: They are scared.
WATTS: It is not their style. This is a whole different paradigm.
PINSKY: There is world moving under them.
GOETZ: What he is doing is interesting, because the other republican candidates have done that, too, and no one cares.
CATHERWOOD: Cares. Yes.
GOETZ: It is breaking news when Trump goes down there, but everyone else goes and no one cares.
PINSKY: And I am telling you -- but you got to have a scapegoat. He is zeroed in on that one phenomena, and that is us, our narcissism, our
primitiveness. We are responding to his scapegoating mechanism. He takes a group. He marginalizes them. You may be in the scapegoating group next.
I do not know. No one seems to --
GOETZ: The lady is probably next.
PINSKY: Only winners are outside of the scapegoating and I am not sure who is in that category.
ODUOLOWU: In the history, there was a demagogue back --
PINSKY: Listen, are you kidding? It happens all the time through history that people lead through creating marginalized scapegoats. That is how
people mobilized primitive crowds. That is us, everybody. Just look at Twitter. That is what happens every day there.
Coming up, a man runs head first into a bus. We have the video. Yes, there it is. Boom. After this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix." My guests tell me what is trending on their social media accounts. Anneelise, you are number 1, go ahead.
GOETZ: OK. So, first up, we have on my Facebook feed, there is a drill sergeant, his name is John Burke. And, he says if you are overweight, it
is time for some tough love. And, we are going to watch the video in a second. And, I will tell you what. I do not know how they are going to
air it, because it is laced with profanity.
PINSKY: Uh-oh.
GOETZ: Watch this.
PINSKY: OK. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BURKE, DRILL SERGEANT: To the overweight people. No, I am not going to accept you for who you are, with that (EXPLETIVE WORD) excuse of "You
should love because I am beautiful." Your personality might be beautiful, but your body is not. They are trying to come with some (EXPLETIVE WORD)
excuse as to why they can be who they are, because of sheer (EXPLETIVE WORD) laziness.
That is the cold truth of it, and the only ones that accept it. We should accept everybody. You go right the (EXPLETIVE WORD) ahead. You go right
ahead and help those people out and support that unhealthy lifestyle and be an enabler. And, watch them eat themselves into an early grade. Or, you
can look at them and say, "Look, if you need help, come to me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, boy.
GOETZ: John basically says, you know, if you are mad about this video, I am sorry. But, I am trying to get through to people and they are going to
listen more by watching a video like this, than they are if I am "Oh, do not worry about it. You will be fine."
He does not want to enable people. And, it is working. Look at the Facebook feed and it is working. It is not fat shaming. He says that "I
am not trying to shame you. I want you to have self-esteem and I want you to get off the couch and work and be a good example for your kids.
PINSKY: Rolonda?
WATTS: OK. Talk about bodies. Let me ask you this question. Can amputees be sexy?
CATHERWOOD: Hell, yeah!
WATTS: Well, take a look at this. The answer is yes! Look at this. I found this on Instagram. Photographer Michael Stokes is showing that
battle scars are indeed sexy. And, ladies and some gentleman, these guys are so hot. I cannot even got to tell you.
These models are all amputees. They are gorgeous. They are military veterans, some of them. Most of them have served in Gulf war. They are
amputees. And, some of the most beautiful pictures you have ever seen. You can find these on Instagram. And, I love the crowd funding that people
are doing.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
WATTS: This one is on Kickstarter. He is raising money, Michael Stokes says for a book on these photos and they are absolutely beautiful, I have
to say. I mean just -- You see just like art. How much they have had to work their bodies to take, you know, to give themselves strength without
having them --
PINSKY: And, Mike --
CATHEWOOD: My wife`s brother is a challenged athlete. He has no legs from the hips down. It is really --
PINSKY: He is one of these guys.
CATHERWOOD: Yes. It was not until losing his legs that he actually decided to become athletic. It is what inspired him, you know?
PINSKY: OK. Mike?
CATHERWOOD : All right. This is not as inspiring at all.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: No!
CATHERWOOD: This guy got off a bus, OK? Then he realized he got off at the wrong stop. Boom! The driver said, "Oh, it is $2 more dollars to get
to your stop." And he said, "I do not have $2, but I do have these two head butts for your butts, bitch." He knocked him in the pole.
PINSKY: He went back multiple times?
CATHERWOOD: No. It was a double. It was a double. He did not hit hard enough. And, look, then he goes to get up and he realizes, "Oh, I am
knocked out." Wham! Oh, that is intense.
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: And he missed the bus.
CATHERWOOD: I know.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All right. Next up, I have a disturbing, shocking image with a homeless man doing set ablaze with fire crackers. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:54:54] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: It is time for my "Click Fix." Now a warning for this video. It is disturbing. A homeless man is set on fire while he slept on the streets
of Albuquerque. This surveillance video caught someone in an SUV tossing lit firecrackers on the man, and then driving away.
The man, unfortunately, was really severely burned. I mean burn is no -- BS guys. I mean he is still in an intensive care unit. Police are hoping
that someone recognizes this purple paint job on the SUV, so they can track down the suspect. It is not cool. I mean, you can imagine what a bunch of
screwball kids. Think about this.
All right guys, here is the deal. Check us out on SnapChat. We are there. You can see what goes on behind the scenes. See it there on our SnapChat.
There it is, DrDrewhln. Please follow as there.
You can also DVR this show, thereby you can watch us any time. Audience, good job. Excellent. Panel, well done. We will see you all next time.
Check us out. Follow us on Facebook, by the way.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[22:00:00] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
