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Dr. Drew
Donald Trump Makes Waves; Rally to Protest the Iran Nuclear Deal; Kentucky County Clerk Remains Defiant and Returning to Work; A Teacher Goes Way Too Far to Make a Student Pay Attention in Class. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 09, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:12] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump`s new attacks. The billionaire not backing down. Plus, the court clerk who refuses to
issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples, she remains defiant and is returning to work.
It all starts right now with the "Top of the Feed." Donald Trump keeps making news and keeps making waves. Here he is today at a rally to protest
so-called Iran deal watch. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN BACKGROUND MUSIC)
It is the end of the world as we know it. It is the end of the world as we know it.
(END BACKGROUND MUSIC)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you very much, everybody. It is such an honor. Never, ever, ever, in my life have I seen any
transaction so incompetently negotiated as our deal with Iran.
We are led by very, very stupid people. Very, very stupid people. We cannot beat ISIS. Give me a break. We cannot beat anybody. It will
change. We will have so much winning if I get elected, that you may get bored with winning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Joining us, Annelise Goetz, Attorney, host of "Your Life and the Law" Podcast; Areva Martin, attorney and legal commentator; Mike
Catherwood, my co-host on KABC Radio 790 and "Love Line" and host on "Chain Reaction" on GSN; Ryan Sorba, head of the Young Conservatives of
California and Erica Williams Simon, writer, cultural critic, editor of Upworthy.com, contributor at "Time" Magazine. Mike, I saw you giggling at
the music.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST ON KABC RADIO 790 AND "LOVE LINE" AND HOST ON "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: Yes, I wonder what Michae Stipe from R.E.M.
thinks about him Donald Trump using his music.
PINSKY: "End of the World as We Know It" was the music playing. Ryan, can he win?
RYAN SORBA, HEAD OF THE YOUNG CONSERVATIVES OF CALIFORNIA: I think he can and I think it is very likely that he will and I think he is courting Ted
Cruz to be his vice president. Today, he mentioned that they have a romance together, which was funny.
While they were both speaking at the protest at Washington, D.C. put on by the Tea Party Patriots about the Iran deal, which is a terrible deal that
Barack Obama has negotiated so poorly. It is pathetic and we need Donald Trump to come in there and create a deal that actually puts America first.
PINSKY: I see how each of Ryan`s words landed on Areva. Go ahead, Areva.
(LAUGHING)
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL COMMENTATOR: I was just looking at Erika, because we are sitting here, you know, rolling our eyes, because not only
can Trump not win, he definitely cannot win with Ted Cruz as his VP.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
You guys in the GOP party only think about the short gain. The long game, you have to get votes from people that look like me, African-Americans,
people who are brown people, Latino people, women that look like me, and you cannot get it when you bash everyone. African-Americans, Latinos,
breast-feeding mothers --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: Trump pulling very high in the polls among African-Americans.
MARTIN: You cannot win. He will lose gain, Ryan.
PINSKY: Let us see what Erika says.
ERICA WILLIAMS SIMON, WRITER, CULTURAL CRITIC, EDITOR OF UPWORTHY.COM AND CONTRIBUTOR AT "TIME" MAGAZINE: I mean here is the thing. The reason I am
not worried in the least bit about Trump is that he is this season`s Sarah Palin, right? Like people love him. We are excited by him, for the same
reason that I am excited by "Love & Hip Hop Atlanta," right?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)
It is not real. We know it is not real. It is unbelievable. It is entertaining. But at the end of the day, when it comes to what does
America really care about, what does America really want? This is a sideshow and the true story is what is happening in communities all across
America.
PINSKY: I got to tell you, people in this audience walk down and stand on that spot and tell me how much they like what he is saying. They can
relate to it and they sometimes look like you guys. You know --
WILLIAMS: They did the same thing with Sarah Palin. It is not just about relatability. I think once you actually start looking at his proposals, he
wants to get rid of 17 million people. He wants to have Mexico pay for a wall. They are illogical.
PINSKY: Well, he actually got booed. He and his wife got booed upon the arrival at the U.S. Open in New York last night. The ESPN announcers --
Listen, now, mind you, this is a New York democratic, very liberal upper --
CATHERWOOD: A tennis crowd.
PINSKY: Tennis crowd. Check out how it went down.
(LAUGHING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ANNOUNCER (1): And there he is! And, now, can you hear the reaction?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER (1): Rough crowd here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ANNOUNCER (2): It is New York! It is New York!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ANNOUNCER (1): from the crowd.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER (1): Even the photographers are getting out of the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER (2): That was not Mary Joe`s comments.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ANNOUNCER (2): Thanks, John.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And yet, was it, a Sammy Hagar concert in India or something. I guess George Lopez came out and made some comments against Trump, and Lopez
got booed out, Anneelise.
CATHERWOOD: There is so much to that.
ANNELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY AND HOST OF "YOUR LIFE AND THE LAW" PODCAST: I think, yes --
CATHERWOOD: That is crazy.
(LAUGHING)
GOETZ: People -- he got to find his right spot. I just do not think the U.S. Open -- those are not his people, right? Which is, I think,
surprising. If you look at what usually resonates with republicans, where their base is, is more of the affluent people, and that certainly is who is
sitting there watching tennis. And, it is the Hampton House owners -- those are his people and his people do not want him.
PINSKY: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That is right, his people -- I disagree so strongly that Trump is going to be elected easily. He got the highest
unfavorables among any republican in the field, second only to Ted Cruz. That is by republicans. His own party does not want to elect him.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:05:07] PINSKY: Ryan.
SORBA: According to your ally, Erica, across the way, I do not know -- I forgot, who was nominated or chosen, I mean, for vice president under John
McCain?
WILLIAMS: Who won?
SORBA: Sarah Palin, but she is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sarah Palin was nominated. It is just a side show.
SORBA: Can Donald Trump win the nomination? Can Donald Trump win the election? The answer is yes and yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No.
SORBA: A. Sarah Palin won -- became the vice presidential candidate. And, B. Donald Trump is different from Sarah Palin, but the people enjoy --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, they got a different hair cut, but really the policy is the same.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Trump is using though a creative set of -- it is funny. Mike and I were talking on our A.M. radio show a couple weeks ago about how Trump`s
campaign seems strangely more modern.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I mean -- I guess he -- and you and I have talked about it at length, about how modern media is really concerned with attention
more so than content.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: And, Donald Trump is excellent at creating headlines and slogans.
PINSKY: And, here is a -- he used Instagram. Here is an Instagram of a video of a woman falling asleep at a Jeb Bush event. Here he is, again,
using social media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Would you like to see him run?
BARBARA BUSH, JEB BUSH`S MOTHER: No. I really do not. I think it is a great country. There are a lot of great families. There are just -- there
are other people out there that are very qualified and we have had enough Bushes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Wait a minute. Was that Instagram, control room? That was Instagram? Crazy!
GOETZ: He is putting out these top-quality ads, political ads, over Instagram now. So, there is no doubt that he is ahead of the game, ahead
of his counterparts as it comes to using social media and engaging the public. Because that is really what social media is about, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
MARTIN: But you are measuring the next --
GOETZ: People gets pissed off when they see political ads --
MARTIN: Potentially next --
GOETZ: They do not get pissed off on Instagram.
MARTIN: But, you are the measuring the presidential candidate by how he uses the media. This guy no doubt is a media genius. I do not think
anyone would disagree with that. He is a reality television star. He has made millions in front of a camera.
PINSKY: But, Areva, again --
MARTIN: That is not -- Is that the person you want in the White House? Those are very different standards and we need to use a different standard
when we talk about who do we want to lead this country?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I agree. No, I agree with you about the standards for the electable person, but to be critical of his use of media, I remember John
F. Kennedy getting elected, because he knew how to use television.
MARTIN: I am not critical of it. I am just saying we have to --
PINSKY: Well, that is what people say.
GOETZ: That is what he got.
MARTIN: That is what he has.
GOETZ: That is his --
MARTIN: There is no substance.
GOETZ: That is his scare --
MARTIN: Where is the beef? You remember that, right?
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: It is also incredibly optimistic. And, I share your optimism that we want, from our presidential nominees, something more than just an
ability to use media. But, I am not sure that everybody in America shares that feeling. I think that they are perfectly content voting for the
person they know the best.
PINSKY: Let me keep --
CATHERWOOD: You know, who recognize them.
PINSKY: Let me keep inflaming Areva here. This is now on Fox News. Bill O`Reilly asked Mr. Trump what the "Black Lives Matter" Movement wanted to
achieve. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think they are looking for trouble. I looked at a couple of the people that were interviewed from the group. I saw them with hate coming
down the street. I was watching the head of "Black Lives Matter" being interviewed the other night and I said to myself, "Give me a break. All
lives matter."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Did not I sit here about two weeks ago, when people were defending Trump because of his statements of Latinos, and say, African-Americans were
next? And, we are -- and we were today.
He went after "Black Lives Matters" activists and said they are causing trouble. What I see those activists doing is shining a spotlight on police
brutality, on the desperate treatment of African-Americans in the criminal justice system --
SORBA: Areva --
PINSKY: Ryan.
SORBA: Areva. Areva.
MARTIN: That is the reality of what "Black Lives Matter" is doing.
SORBA: First of all. No. No.
MARTIN: Raising awareness about injustice and inequality.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: Listen. No, you got to stop. You got to give me a second. First of all, I want to respond to the audience member`s statement that John
McCain lost because of Sarah Palin.
John McCain lost because of John McCain. Sarah Palin was the person pulling the people into the rallies. Sarah Palin was the person bringing
the people out. John McCain ruined it because he was a moderate.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: How can you say that, you did not even know --
SORBA: But people were not happy with him as a candidate, just like they were not happy with Mitt Romney. Second of all, "Black Lives Matter." It
is a George Soros-funded organization.
WILLIAMS: First of all, it is not a funded organization, so you are inaccurate.
SORBA: No.
WILLIAMS: It is not an organization.
SORBA: It is an organization that has been funded by dark money at the center for media and democracy out of Wisconsin. Attacks are ripe for --
WILLIAMS: You see that is what happening when you say things that are not backed up by facts.
SORBA: No. No. When you say things that are not backed up by facts.
WILLIAMS: You cannot say things that are not backed up by facts.
SORBA: You are not saying --
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Because you do not know the information.
SORBA: No.
WILLIAMS: That is actually not true. "Black Lives Matter" was an organic movement and is an organic movement --
SORBA: No. No, it was not. It was bought and paid for by George Soros.
WILLIAMS: How can you know this?
MARTIN: You are so wrong, Ryan!
SORBA: Areva. Washington Post --
MARTIN: Ryan, deal with the fact of what "Black Lives Matter" is doing.
SORBA: How many blacks were killed this year by cops out of 666 people --
MARTIN: It is raising awareness --
SORBA: How many?
[21:10:00] MARTIN: It is raising awareness about the injustices --
SORBA: 20?
MARTIN: Criminal justice --
SORBA: 20?
MARTIN: And, it is making people like Trump --
SORBA: You cannot ignore the statistics --
MARTIN: -- call a disruption?
SORBA: You cannot ignore the statistics.
WILLIAMS: And, you cannot lie. And, you cannot lie.
SORBA: How many black people were killed this year by police out of 666. How many?
MARTIN: That is not the issue.
SORBA: You know what "The Washington Post" --
MARTIN: The issue is racial inequality in the criminal justice system. That is what "Black Lives Matter" do.
SORBA: Listen, 5 percent of the individuals killed this year by cops were African-American, which means there are actually being favored as far as
safety is concerned by public safety --
MARTIN: Ryan, that is --
PINSKY: Stop. Next up -- stay here with me, camera. Next up, we are going to keep this going. But later on, Kim Davis defiant, returning to
work. She is not backing down over same-sex marriage licenses and we are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When people come into the country illegally, we should not allow that. A couple of months ago, when I announced, I made some very strong
statements about the crime and the problems that were happening.
When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. They are sending people that have lots of problems. They are bringing drugs. They
are bringing crime. They are rapists, and I have been proven right.
[21:15:11] And, many of the people in this audience actually have apologized to me, which I very much appreciate. Of course, they have not
done it publicly, but these are minor details. One day, they will. I want people to come into our country legally. I want to have a big, fat,
beautiful open door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Anneelise, Areva, Mike, Ryan, and Erica. Now, a recent poll puts Trump head-to-head with the top three democrats. He leads
-- According to this poll, it was recently done, he leads Hillary, 45 percent to 40. Joe Biden, 44 to 42. Bernie Sanders, 44 to 40. But, Ryan,
still it is a close race here.
SORBA: I know. I thought Areva just said there is no way he could win with the American public, that the right wing nominates people that are
just too right wing.
PINSKY: Is this surprising?
SORBA: Here he is resonating with all of America.
MARTIN: This is a completely irrelevant number to be watching at this state. We have talked about --
PINSKY: But it is still surprising.
MARTIN: It is not surprising at all.
SORBA: But, it is not because Sarah Palin wind up Vice President.
MARTIN: It is not surprising when he get all the media attention. When they do these polls, they ask people and it is based on name recognition.
Right now, we probably cannot even identify the other 17 members who are running in the GOP party, because they do not get any news attention,
because they are not big T.V. stars or not big reality star.
SORBA: Jeb Bush is not known?
MARTIN: He is taking up all the air in the room, so people check the box.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: Jeb Bush is not known?
MARTIN: It does not mean they are going to vote --
SORBA: Nobody knows who Jeb Bush is?
MARTIN: Learn some history, Ryan.
SORBA: I never heard of Jeb.
MARTIN: Early poll numbers are not a predictor of who wins general elections. You know that. Why do not you deal with the facts.
SORBA: Donald Trump has more experience as a business man than Obama ever had as a senator before he was elected.
MARTIN: It is not an indicator of who is going to win the election.
SORBA: Yes. It is. It is. You cannot just say --
PINSKY: Hang on. Erica?
WILLIAMS: I mean what is really troubling to me, about this entire conversation, is that you are saying things that are not grounded in fact.
You are saying things -- you are actually doing what Donald Trump is doing.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: No.
WILLIAMS: Which is responding to the general public as if they are stupid and saying things that prey on their deepest fears. They are afraid of
immigrants. They are afraid of "Black Lives Matter" movements.
SORBA: Do not accuse Donald Trump of being a racist. He is not.
WILLIAMS: Actually -- first of all -- first of all, do not put words in my mouth. Second of all, what I said is --
(LAUGHING)
SORBA: I cannot take it when people accuse him of being a racist.
WILLIAMS: Then you should not do that yourself. Let me say what I want to say.
SORBA: You just said he is xenophobic --
WILLIAMS: What I said was thatthere are people in the American public who are afraid of undocumented immigrants, who are afraid of the "Black Lives
Matter" Movement and as a result, will themselves not do the necessary work to learn what is true, learn the accurate information, understand people,
be empathetic, and as a result, we now have a candidate who this early in the polls is doing well, because he is preying on that xenophobia.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Erica, do you think, more than anything -- what I keep see people talking -- whenever people talk in their enthusiasm, they will bring up two
things. They will say, "I like that he is a businessman. He will create jobs. He will make money and by the way, I am tired of immigrants taking
my word, my job." You sort of hear that.
And, the second thing is, "I am tired of mind police." I was actually speak my mind and I admire that he speaks his mind, even if I may not agree
with everything, I like that he says whatever is on his mind. Could this be a backlash, more of a backlash to the way this country has been the last
couple of years?
WILLIAMS: Here is the thing, when the Tea Party became very popular, it was the result of a certain number of people, an actual pretty small number
the general population responding to something and then needing something, a need to be having, a need to be met.
That is what is happening with Donald Trump. Sure, there is a segment of the population that does not like the fact that we are no longer a
xenophobic, racist country. That we cannot say these things publicly because they are not right.
PINSKY: Let me get a comment from the audience. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have an issue with Trump on his immigration.
PINSKY: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because it really dehumanizes people.
PINSKY: Well, he certainly uses the old technique of scapegoating. And, scapegoating is as old as any political organization in history. You make
a scapegoat that galvanizes a group and you marginalize somebody. And, what you do with that is a whole other matter. But in terms of gaining
momentum, creating marginalized groups is how to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is really scary, like a couple of weeks ago, two guys in Boston beat up an undocumented immigrant and they
said, it was because that is what Trump says.
PINSKY: Trump has over do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You know, we should get rid of all of them. And, this can cause really bad things.
PINSKY: I want to make sure I get your story right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: They said it was because Mr. Trump said they could do it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, they said, that they were inspired by Trump and his anti-immigration policies.
PINSKY: OK. All right. Well, fair enough.
CATHERWOOD: I think Erica`s point is a very important one. Whether or not Donald Trump is showbinistic, whether or not Donald Trump is racist is not
the issue here. It is that he has strategically said certain things that galvanized people who are.
And that is undeniable -- and I personally do not, even as a Mexican- American, I do not think that Trump dislikes or has any inferior feelings towards Mexican Americans, but he probably does hang out with a lot of rich
white guys who do. And, he knows that, that is a good percentage of the republican base.
PINSKY: Ryan, is there --
CATHERWOOD: And, he is very calculated in saying the right things to galvanize that base.
[21:20:00] PINSKY: Or is that fair or should he be running independent anyway?
SORBA: No. Donald Trump is not racist. We have gone so far, like off the track, that it is unbelievable.
CATHERWOOD: I agree. I agree.
SORBA: Donald Trump loves Chinese people. He loves Mexican people. Donald Trump has people that work for him from every ethnicity from around
the world.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Ryan, that is not a statement that Erica made --
SORBA: This is ridiculous notion that Donald Trump --
WILLIAMS: Do you have a hearing problem?
CATHERWOOD: But no one said that, neither Erica nor I said that. In fact, I outwardly said he is not.
SORBA: Donald Trump will not appoint people with race.
CATHERWOOD: But, I think he is wise enough to know that in 2015, there is so many people --
SORBA: No. Donald Trump is Hollywood --
CATHERWOOD: There is a lot of facets of society that frustrate a lot of people, whether it is justified or not. And, he is very smart in that he
manipulates that to his advantage. You know, he really does.
SORBA: Donald Trump is a cool individual that is interesting, that is very successful, and people resonate with that. The democrats have boring
Hillary Clinton who is accused of a scandal every other week. Joe Biden is a goofball and --
PINSKY: All right, I want to hear from the audience.
MARTIN: Let us go to personal attack, because when you do not have substance, you personally attack. That is what Donald does.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think the fact that you can name a race that he likes proves he is racist. I am going to go ahead and say
that.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
We are not in china, so the fact that he likes the Chinese does not resonate a lot with me as a voting American.
PINSKY: So, you are for --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not know if he is running for president or slave owner, because it seems like he does not like anybody
but rich white people.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, I do not know which facts you are listening to, but this is what he is stated. So, if you want to speak to
that, that is great, but what you are saying is a lot of rhetoric right now.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: OK, fair enough. Fair enough. Anneelise, help me on this. This whole thing --
(LAUGHING)
MARTIN: We are going to pay for that!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: This whole thing, it is entertaining. It is interesting. It got us all into the political system, God bless Mr. Trump for doing that. None
of us can refute that.
GOETZ: Right.
PINSKY: He has brought us all into this political process very early this time. But, the fact that we have to, you know, that there is so much
acrimony. There is so much concern about racism in this country.
There is so much blue and red and there is just -- it is just splintering all over the place. There is marginalizing. There is scapegoating. What
is going to pull us together? Is -- do you have any insight into that? I am sort of sad when I hear these conversations.
GOETZ: I do not know what is going to pull us together. What I am concerned about when I see Trump is that I look at him as a presidential
candidate, because that is what he wants us to do. That is what I am trying to do.
So, I picture him as a president, representing our country. And, I look at the fact that he is attacking the "Black Lives Matter" movement, which
really, all it is, it is protesters that are trying to organize. It is a civic group. It is a group of individuals, I will not call it an
organization, but it is a group of individuals trying to make a change.
And, that is one of the cornerstones, one of the bedrocks of this country. He similarly had protesters outside of his Trump Tower, that he had
arrested and there is now -- not arrested. There was a physical altercation to remove them. He is against protesters.
PINSKY: All right.
TRUMP: He is against people having their opinions.
PINSKY: But this is what I have been sort of thinking lately. And, I am going to get into this Kim Davis story next. Because I feel like
principles have sort of eroded. And, with the erosion of principles, our constitution has become just a sort of a set of guidelines, kind of, right?
GOETZ: Right.
PINSKY: And, I think the Kim Davis story really goes out. So, let us talk about her. She is out of jail, for now. She is headed to work. How is
that office reacting? Are the underlings able to continue in their work or is she going to get in the way of that and back in jail? Find out, after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:23:35] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:27:27] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kim Davis is free.
MAT STAVER, ATTORNEY OF KIM DAVIS: Kim Davis is free.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM DAVIS, COUNTRY CLERK WHO REFUSED TO ISSUE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE LICENSE: I just want to give God the glory. His people have rallied, and you are a
strong people.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Did you hear that they are comparing her to Rosa Parks?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: What?
MARTIN: Martin Luther King Jr.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAT STAVER, ATTORNEY OF KIM DAVIS: She is not going to resign. She cannot sacrifice her conscience, so she is willing as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
wrote in the letter from the Birmingham jail to pay the consequences of that decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That this agenda to silence Christian influence in America is nothing but a little rat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Kim Davis is not in jail because she is a Christian. She was in jail because of contempt of court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: I am willing to face my consequences and you all will face your consequences when it comes time for judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The Kentucky clerk who spent five days in jail after refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses says she will be back at work Monday. Not
Friday, right? Monday?
GOETZ: Yes.
PINSKY: Good. A judge warned her not to block her deputy clerks from issuing marriage licenses and carrying on their usual duties. Back with
Anneelise, Areva, Mike, Erica, and Ryan. Ryan, all these comparisons with major civil rights leaders, come on.
(LAUGHING)
SORBA: Look, first, I want to say thank you to Matt Staver of Liberty Council and Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz for standing up for Kim. OK?
PINSKY: What?
SORBA: That is number -- I want to thank --
PINSKY: Why?
SORBA: Because they are standing up for religious liberty. That is number one.
PINSKY: They are standing up for somebody --
SORBA: Number two, I have a question for everybody on the panel. If a doctor took Obamacare money, would you force him to give an abortion if
somebody wanted an abortion? Would you force him to prescribe marijuana if somebody thought that marijuana was the best medicine --
PINSKY: If --
SORBA: If it was in a state in which it was legal.
PINSKY: Ryan. No, no, no, Ryan. Ryan. If the constitution required me, as an elected official, for a position that I accept, to carry out my duty,
and I do not, I would expect when I violated that law, something would happen.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: But a doctor could be it --
MARTIN: Well, first of all, Ryan.
GOETZ: It was in public too.
SORBA: Well, you force a doctor to perform an abortion.
MARTIN: Ryan, you do not get to ask us questions, we are asking you the questions. And second of all, you are advocating that Huckabee and Ted
Cruz, who are running for president, who are openly advocating that someone not follow the Supreme Court of the United States, become the president of
the country?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: OK, listen!
MARTIN: How are they even qualified to be president?
PINSKY: And, please do not --
MARTIN: If they do not follow the law?
PINSKY: Please do not go to Dred Scott. Do not go to Dred Scott.
MARTIN: No matter what you say about the law, you have to follow the law.
[21:30:01] SORBA: Marijuana is the illegal federally, but states do not enforce that law! So, why should they enforce laws for same-sex marriage if
they do not want to --
MARTIN: Ryan, Ted Cruz and Huckabee are running for president?!
SORBA: Constitutional amendments against it.
MARTIN: Are they no standards for your --
SORBA: No, no, you answer my question.
MARTIN: No. No.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: The Supreme Court did not invalidate national law on marijuana, so there is a divide.
SORBA: Yes.
MARTIN: A huge difference.
CATHERWOOD: Now, here is the thing that really bugs me about the Kim Davis situation, is that it has gotten me confused that this is an assault on
Christianity or religious liberties. And, I think it is unfair, because right now, Christians, out of all religions, are under the most attack in
this country.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: I really do feel badly for most Christians, because it is become en vogue to rag on Christians. Now, this is not to silence her
feelings towards gay marriage nor her feelings spiritually. This is just to say that she should do her job while she is there.
MARTIN: And follow the law!
CATHERWOOD: And as soon as she leaves that courthouse, however she feels spiritually, she is to go to her home, to her house of worship and do that.
PINSKY: Hang on, Anneelise, let us go to the states versus federal thing that Ryan brought up.
GOETZ: Yes.
PINSKY: It is quite different than the situation we are actually in here. Can you explain to people what the conflict is?
GOETZ: Well, it is very different. First of all, to your point, the federal government does enforce those laws in states where states have made
it legalized. There is plenty of cases in California, where the feds have raided big marijuana farms and closed down operations. So, that is just
not true.
PINSKY: But in the interest of prudence, they cannot just come and wipe everything out. They just cannot pull it off.
GOETZ: They certainly can.
PINSKY: They could?
GOETZ: Federal government can do that. Yes.
SORBA: But, they do not --
GOETZ: And, they do it on a very regular basis.
PINSKY: OK.
GOETZ: They do it on a very regular basis. But, you know, what we are talking about is not even federal versus state. I mean, we are talking
about a Supreme Court decision that came down, unequivocally, she has to follow this. And, on Monday, when she goes back to work and does not
follow it, because she is not going to --
PINSKY: She will go to jail?
GOETZ: Her hinny is going back to jail.
MARTIN: And she should go back to jail!
SORBA: No.
PINSKY: Erica -- hold on. Erica, I want to read something to you. Give me the -- believe it or not, George Takei had a great comment. I want to
read this to you. You know, I admire George and here is what he said. He posted -- George Takei posted this on Facebook. Let me get it where I can
read it, please. OK.
"If she had denied marriage certificates to an interracial couple, would people cheer her? Would presidential candidates flock to her side? In our
society, we obey civil laws, not religious ones to suggest otherwise, simply put is entirely un-American." Erica?
WILLIAMS: I mean here is the thing. So, I am a Christian. I love my faith. I understand the concept of conviction and yet I also understand
the law. And, religious liberty does not give me the right to infringe upon someone else`s right.
PINSKY: So, what if you were in a position -- let us do the hypothetical that Ryan proposed. You were elected to an office, the law changed and it
comes in conflict with your religious principles. What do you do?
WILLIAMS: If that is my job, I either do it or resign. One or the other.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Or --
MARTIN: Move out of the way.
PINSKY: But there is another -- you can also let the system -- you can do what Abraham Lincoln did, which is try to change the system, try to bring
things back to the Supreme Court, or propose things and get to another office where you can legislate.
WILLIAMS: Absolutely. And, here is the reality, the facts of the case. When she first went to court, the judge was lenient and said, "Look, you do
not even have to do it. Just do not stop your deputies. Do not forbid your deputies from actually issuing certificates." And, she said, "No, I
am not going to do that either."
MARTIN: And, we should note this judge said that he feels as a Christian exactly the way that she feels, that personally, he does not believe in gay
marriages, but he is a judge and he has to follow the law.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was going to say, yes, like I was just about to say, like if -- I am a Christian, too. And, if I was in a
position where my religious beliefs are being tested, I would quit. I would just quit. Like, you would not go back to work and you would not do
that job.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: So, Ryan, it makes me wonder if there is somebody behind this, pushing it along so it becomes a test case of some kind?
SORBA: No, because, look, people -- they are literally chasing people who take their Christian faith seriously out of the public square. That is
what is going on. Listen, Kim Davis, here we are --
(CROSSTALKS)
MARTIN: Christians, we have already solidify that --
SORBA: Listen, Areva. Areva, I need to make a point. I need to make a point.
PINSKY: Finish. Finish your point.
SORBA: All she said is, I do not want my name on their certificate. You can have the other clerks or some other name. You can go online and do it.
In North Carolina, they have a law where 30 clerks have opted out. You can go get your marriage license and the Christian --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And -- but --
MARTIN: Ryan. Ryan --
SORBA: Other than that it is Christian bigotry.
MARTIN: Why do not she do her job. Why do not she do her job until the governor -- if he chooses to make that change.
SORBA: Say again?
PINSKY: The governor.
MARTIN: Why do not she do her job until the governor or the legislature makes that change. That is all we are asking.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Or the legislature --
MARTIN: Just do her job until they reach the --
PINSKY: Anneelise, last thought. Anneelise, Anneelise, last thought?
GOETZ: She has a state that is behind her. She has a state that is not going to impeach her. If she has waited for the law to run its course, it
would probably buttress her argument. They are not going to impeach her. Yes, no --
SORBA: -- and came up from Ohio to challenge her while the legislature --
GOETZ: They will provide -- they will provide a carve out, just like you are seeing in other states where they will remove her name. They will find
a way to work with them if she will work with them, but she will not.
[21:35:05] PINSKY: Hold your thoughts. Hold it. Later, did a teacher go way too far to make a student pay attention in class? That is a "Click
Fix" coming up. We will keep this conversation going and we will be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: I just want you all to know that we are not issuing a marriage license today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): I am paying for this memory with my partner that I love that I have been with for 17 years. What is the longest you
have been with someone that you have been married to someone?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The fact that she has been married four times, the fact that she has had these children out of wedlock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAVER: They want to talk about her past marriages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: And, you know what? What a hypocrite. Here she is trying to uphold the sanctity of marriage when she has been divorced four times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SORBA: Her anger -- listen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAVER: That was the Kim Davis that was then and there is a different Kim Davis now.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. We just declare yourself different, you are different. We are talking about Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who was jailed for five
days for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
She, herself, as you heard there, had been married four times, had marriage out of wedlock while cheating. The bible does specify a couple things
about cheating. But, we are in a different time now, she is forgiven.
MARTIN: We have evolved.
PINSKY: Back with -- Everybody, why cannot we live like Jesus? Is not that what the real Christian virtue was? To live -- to sort of forgive and
be inclusive.
CATHERWOOD: We should all be Jewish carpenters.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: That is right. I am back with Anneelise, Areva, Mike, Ryan and Erica. So, what about this issue of hypocrisy? Should we be talking about
that or does it miss the point?
GOETZ: I think it misses the point.
PINSKY: The point is that we are talking about people`s religious privileges versus somebody not following the law.
GOETZ: I am looking at it from a legal perspective.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: Straight up legal. She does not have a leg to stand on when it comes to someone attacking her religious liberties. She is there to
provide her services to the public that the taxpayers are paying for. What she does before she became a Christian, and now that she is a Christian, I
do not care about any of that.
I really do not care about any of that. I appreciate that she has a strong faith. There is nothing wrong with that in the country and I do not like
when people attack someone that has a strong faith, and people are allowed to change.
MARTIN: But, here is m concern --
GOETZ: People are allowed to change.
MARTIN: I agree with you, legally. It should not be a factor, but she has made it a factor. You know, in the law, we talk about opening the door.
And, so when she stands there and talks about, this is against her religious conviction, she is judging gay people.
So, to me, when she becomes a moralist and starts judging gay people that wants to get married, then her background becomes at issue. I do not care
if the woman has been married four times, but do not tell gay people that they should not be married, that there is something wrong with that
relationship.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Mike, is that where Bill Cosby got in trouble.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, really.
MARTIN: That is hypocrisy.
CATHERWOOD: No. I mean that is literally how Bill Cosby got in trouble. The judge opened up that deposition because he was making himself out to be
a moralist. But, I do agree that her personal indiscretions, especially in her past, if she is saying that she found spirituality and has changed,
everyone should be afforded that liberty.
And, you know, I support her if she is now, you know, has realized the error of her ways. I just think that, that, you know, those personal
attacks, they then water down this argument over, you know, what we are saying -- I think that -- I get very upset when this is looked at as an
attack on religion, and it is not. This is not an attack on speech, on religion, this is an attack on someone who is an elected official that is
refusing to do her job.
PINSKY: I am going to show you a comedian Larry Wilmore, who took on this topic last night, what he had to say about it. Look at this on his show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY WILMORE, COMEDIAN HOST: People are calling her brave because she is speaking her mind. But if speaking her mind hurts other people, that is
not brave, that is bull (EXPLETIVE WORD).
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
Here is what I want to know, why is speaking your mind a quality admired and rewarded above all others right now? Does not it seem like that? I
mean, it does not matter that Donald Trump called Mexicans rapists. He was speaking his mind, huh?
(LAUGHING)
I am voting for him, he is speaking his mind. I cannot let those gays get married because of my beliefs. No one cares about your beliefs. The whole
point of having a government job is to not give a damn!
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Erica?
WILLIAMS: I mean, that was -- that was very, very funny, but I think the serious point he was making, though, was about, you know, this is not what
faith is about. This is not what values are about. When I see that, again, as someone who identifies as a Christian, when I think of my faith,
I think of helping the poor, helping the least of these.
Why are we not having conversation around religion that have to do with economic inequality, that has to do with injustice. Why every time that we
talk about Christianity is it about blocking someone else`s civil rights, that makes no sense to me.
PINSKY: Ryan.
SORBA: Erica is conflating the religious aspect of this issue with the American aspect of this issue.
WILLIAMS: Huh?
SORBA: What it means to be an American. Look, if you look at an analogy, OK, you have the people -- the protestants coming and then you have the
Methodists coming and then you have the Quakers coming to America.
And, now you have the new guy telling the original individuals, the protestants that came to America, you have got to get out. You cannot
participate in your form of government --
PINSKY: What?
MARTIN: You have lost us all, Ryan.
SORBA: Because you are not willing to just simply acknowledge and put your stamp of approval and your name on something that you disagree with.
WILLIAMS: I am still waiting for that --
SORBA: listen, in North Carolina, you would have the ability to opt out of marriage license if they do not want to perform. Why cannot this be the
case in Kentucky? That is all --
MARTIN: Ryan, how does the government operate if the people elected do not follow the law --
SORBA: That is the whole thing.
MARTIN: How can we be expected to follow the law as non-elected officials if the elected officials do not follow the law!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SORBA: You will not be expected to do things that is against your conscience -- this is a compromise.
PINSKY: But, Brian, you are asking for something very reasonable that may, in fact, happen. You have to --
SORBA: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Now it has not. And she has a job to do.
PINSKY: A little patience. A little patience.
CATHERWOOD: Listen. And, by the way, people in this country, you are talking about the Americans aspect. People in this country do not do
certain jobs because of their religious beliefs or do not take certain jobs because of their religious beliefs every day.
I do not do -- I do not do ads on the radio station for alcohol, because I am an alcoholic. I do not feel like it is right. That is money out of my
pocket. It is money out of the station`s pocket. It is just my personal thing, and it happens every day.
[21:45:04] I mean, I am sure there are plenty of people -- you know, their religious belief is that they should be smoking weed all day, but they
cannot do it in 50 -- what? 48 states. So, unless they are in Colorado or Washington, they are S.O.L. And, that is just the way it goes. I mean
people have to make a decision.
PINSKY: Let me just finish and wrap this up by just saying, this whole thing has made me very concerned about our drift away from principle. I
know you would appreciate that, Ryan. I mean we need something to guide us through these things.
And, it is not just, "Hey, I feel this way or, hey, I am speaking my mind." There are principles. Our founding fathers thought very carefully about
principles and we need to follow the principle they set forth and let the process take -- if we have an issue with it, let us get involved with it.
Let the process -- the wheel turn through the process.
And, absolutely, if we have problems of a faith or ethical or whatever objections we have to anything that goes on in this country, absolutely, we
need to stand up and speak about it and be thanking God that we live in a country where we have the freedom to do so.
Let us not be the mind police on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram. Let us allow people to have discourse in the public square, as you say. And,
let us keep working for a better version of the country that was set forth.
How do I say it the way Abraham Lincoln did, how many score ago? And, do it based on the principles that we can all rationally access and
understand, but we need to really think about these things in a principled way.
Next up, extreme teaching. A student is blasted for not paying attention in class. That is right. We have the video. We are going from
constitutional law to fire extinguisher in the classroom. That is right. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:55] PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram feeds. Areva is up
first.
MARTIN: OK. Another conflict caught on tape inside -- yes, you guessed, a Walmart.
PINSKY: Shocking.
CATHERWOOD: Yes!
PINSKY: Walmart!
(LAUGHING)
GOETZ: Walmart always bringing the heat.
MARTIN: But this viral video does not feature a fight. Instead, a father alleges he caught a man taking a photo of his daughter. So, take a look.
PINSKY: I hope it goes to fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That is what it is! You know, he had it walking around like this and as soon as he walked by my daughter, he took a
picture of her. As soon as he walked behind my daughter, he shot a picture and now he deleted it. That is what it is. That is why he is shaking and
having a freaking heart attack, because I busted him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, I am just saying --
MARTIN: Now, we do not really have proof that the father`s allegations are true --
PINSKY: Go dad.
MARTIN: Or that anyone was taken into custody. Nonetheless, this is a good reminder to always watch your children when in public.
PINSKY: And do not be afraid to speak up.
MARTIN: Now, the good thing about this incident was this dad did not take this into his own hands. There was not a big fight. We do not know if
anyone was arrested, but a good reminder, watch your children.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. Anneelise, go ahead.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
GOETZ: On the topic of watching your children, you think you are doing a good thing. You are sending them to day care. We have a disturbing story
of a SnapChat photo featuring a 7-month-old baby.
A 15-year-old South Carolina girl reportedly jammed her toe into the baby`s mouth, took a photo, adding laughing emojis and then shared it on SnapChat.
The photo went viral, obviously, it is how we have it.
It was ultimately seen by the baby`s parents, which as a mother, I can tell you it would be horrifying. Social services was contacted and they
determined the photo was taken at an illegal day care center.
PINSKY: Oh.
GOETZ: Yes. As for the teen girl, she was reportedly not related to the baby. The case has been referred to the department of juvenile justice,
and she could end up in front of a family court judge. You think you are doing something good. You are sending them to day care and you have got a
15-year-old sticking their feet in their mouth.
PINSKY: I know. I just went off on principles, but if we do not take -- if big people do not take care of little people, we have no hope anywhere
let alone in this country. Mike.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: All right. It is back to school time. And, a teacher at a secondary school in Holland apparently has a zero tolerance policy for
students napping in the classroom. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED TEACHER: Hello?
(SPRAYED A FIRE EXTINGUISHER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOETZ: Oh my gosh.
PINSKY: Ladies, would that go over OK in this country?
GOETZ: No! Oh, my gosh!
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: You cannot breathe.
GOETZ: That is horrifying. That would be nightmares for years. Nightmares for years.
CATHERWOOD: It hurts getting fought by a fire extinguisher.
MARTIN: He would be in jail.
GOETZ: Yes.
PINSKY: Well, we kind of admire it still, a little bit in a goofy way. I am not endorsing it. I am not saying it is OK.
MARTIN: OK.
PINSKY: It is just in a weird kind of a -- you know, satisfaction in that.
CATHEWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: But, you do not know, the kid might have been sick. The kid might have been in sleep deprived. I mean it is not OK. It is silly, but it is
not OK.
PINSKY: Next up, a television president`s message about faith and sexual orientation and it is gone viral. I will show you in a minute.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:54:27] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. We have been talking all about Kim Davis. She says homosexuality is a sin. Critics say she has singled out that so-called sin
over countless others from the bible. Watch this now from NBC`s "The West Wing," which I think is a great little reminder. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SHEEN AS PRESIDENT JOSIAH BARTLET, CHARACTER IN T.V. SERIES, "THE WEST WING": I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.
CLAIRE YARLETT AS DR. JENNA JACOBS, CHARACTER IN T.V. SERIES, "THE WEST WING": I do not say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The
bible does.
SHEEN AS PRESIDENT JOSIAH BARTLET: Yes, it does. Leviticus.
YARLETT AS DR. JENNA JACOBS: 18:22.
SHEEN AS PRESIDENTJOSIAH BARTLET: Chapter and verse. I am interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in exodus 21:7.
What would a good price for her be. My chief of staff, Leo McGarry, insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to
death. Am I morally obligated to killing myself, or is it OK to call the police?
Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother, John, for planting crops side by side. Can I burn my mother in a small family
gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Just a reminder. And, again, people tend to pick and choose. Again, let us have some guiding principles, everybody. That is the message
of the night. Please, DVR us. Check out our SnapChat, where DrDrewHLN. Again, if you DVR the program, you can watch us anytime.
Thank you all for watching. Audience, thank you. Thank you for participating. We say, panelists, good job. Tomorrow, we dedicate the
show to all Donald Trump supporters in the audience. We will get into it with them. See you next time.
. [22:00:09] (AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
