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Dr. Drew
Trump Still Tops Polls but In Trouble Over Muslim Comment; Kim Davis Won`t Give Up; Donald Trump`s Twitter Fail; Jessica Simpson Trending for Unsteady Appearance on HSN; Six-Year-Old Viral Star Begs Parents to Be Friends; The Wedding Targeted by Paparazzi. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 21, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:14] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump has had it again, making controversial comments about Muslims and refusing to
apologize. That does not sound like him. Plus, anti-gay marriage court clerk who was jailed for her actions, not giving up.
All starts right now with the "Top of the Feed." Trump still on top in the polls but that does not mean he is not in trouble for not responding to a
comment about Muslims. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This man, I like this guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am from White Plains, amen. OK? We have a problem in this country. It is called Muslims. We know our current
president is one.
TRUMP: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You know he is not even an American --
TRUMP: We need this question. This is the first question --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Birth certificate, man. But, anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us.
TRUMP: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That is my question. When can we get rid of them?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): I consider Muslim-Americans to be an important assets to our country and society. Would you consider putting
one on your cabinet or even on your ticket?
TRUMP: Would I consider putting an Muslim-American in my cabinet? Absolutely, no problem with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Do you, personally, think that Muslims pose a danger to their country?
TRUMP: I love the Muslims, I think they are great people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Joining me, Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University; Vanessa Barnet, HipHollywood.com; Michael
Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC Radio co-host 790 here on Los Angeles. Host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN. Ryan Sorba, head of the Young
Conservatives of California, and on Skype, John Cardillo, WJNO Radio host, former NYPD Officer.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
Now, he eventually did respond to yet another controversy, I guess on, "The Today Show," where he sort of dodged a question about Muslim being
president. And, then he responded with a tweet, "This is the first time in my life that I have caused controversy by not saying something."
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST AND PROFESSOR AT PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: OK.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Now, you sort of saw -- Vanessa, you saw the spectrum of his responses.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Right.
PINSKY: Is he OK? Is he in trouble? What do you say?
BARNETT: He is Trump. I mean this is classic Trump. I am not surprised by this. I would not expect anything different out of him. And, no, he is
not going to you know, rally around the president and defend him and come to his aid or any of those things. That is not what Trump does.
But, he could have used the opportunity to talk about and to educate that you cannot go around and just saying all Muslims are bad, or the entire
religion is bad like there is a problem, there is a stigma where you use that word "Muslim" as a negative thing and that is not right.
PINSKY: Ryan, do you agree with that or people -- I think there is -- well, let me show you this, before I go to Ryan. Let me show you what Ben
Carson said. It made his way on the Sunday`s chat shows. And, Ben Carson was asked a question on "Meet The Press" -- NBC`s "Meet The Press" about a
Muslim being president. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD CHUCK, NBC HOST OF "MEET THE PRESS" PROGRAM: Do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?
BEN CARSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would
not agree with that.
CHUCK: And, would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for congress?
CARSON: Congress is a different story, but it depends on who that Muslim is and what their policies are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Ryan, he is objecting to the constitution, it seems to me, right?
RYAN SORBA, HEAD OF THE YOUNG CONSERVATIVES: Well, it seems to me that Sharia law is someway is opposed to the United States constitution --
PINSKY: Yes. That is Sharia Law, but that is not being a Muslim, right? A Sharia Law is somebody, who is an extremist, who is going to advocate a
certain system and undo the constitution.
SORBA: I mean all Muslims are supposed to abide by the Sharia Law. And, according to Sharia Law --
PINSKY: I do not know that, that is true.
SORBA: Sharia Law is more important than the U.S. Constitution, A. And, then B, Sharia Law is for example, in favor of subjugating women, male
supremacy in society. And, so in many ways, Sharia Law is actually opposed to some of the standards of equality that the Judeo-Christians National Law
--
PINSKY: Listen, I do not disagree with that, but I do not know that Sharia Law is something they would --
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST AND HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: I am not sure whether or not Muslims are supposed to. I
just know that incontestable amount do.
PINSKY: Right. John --
CATHERWOOD: The Quran actually has -- for those -- because I think al of us are guilty of really not knowing what we are talking about when we make
certain claims about Muslim faith. And, the Quran actually has a website run by people, who want to inform people of the western world of like
traditional Muslim ideals.
Because, I think there is a lot of misconception and we are all guilty of it. You know, living in America, because let us face it a lot of times
when any Muslim around the world makes its way on the front page, it is attached to a terrorist attack on the home land.
PINSKY: Right.
CATHERWOOD: And, that does not do well for, you know presenting a smiley face.
PINSKY: This conversation is giving me a headache, because we are really talking about extremism, not about being a Muslim.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: John, help me out here. I mean --
BARNETT: It is the problem, right?
PINSKY: It is not a problem. I mean the constitution says that you can be of any religious persuasion. You know, I do not understand the
controversy.
[21:05:06] JOHN CARDILLO, WJNO RADIO HOST AND FORMER NYPD OFFICER (via Skype): Well, look, yes, the constitution does. But, I do agree that we
just do not know, and many Muslims are in adherence of Sharia. The fact that Trump is --
PINSKY: Now, I do not know if that is true.
CARDILLO: Hold on.
PINSKY: Many is -- I do not know that that is --
CARDILLO: Well, we do not know they are not --
BARNETT: And, if you do not know something, you just said we do not know. I do not know.
CARDILLO: Right. We do not know they are not.
BARNETT: So, educate yourself.
PINSKY: Let us -- for the sake of argument --
BARNETT: You cannot just say you do not know something and then in the next sentence make a blanket statement.
CARDILLO: Hold on. We do not know they are not.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: OK. John, for the sake of argument -- for the sake of argument, let us say they are. Let us say somebody that is an advocate of Sharia Law
makes it into the executive office. There is a gigantic structure of checks and balances that will make sure any constitution of that be
unraveled that, that person will going to somehow subjugate it to something else.
CARDILLO: I do not know about that, we have seen this president stretch executive orders to their limits. I think it would be a problematic, I
really do.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Listen, this is giving me a headache, this whole thing.
HO: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: I do think, though, that we need to remind ourselves whether or not you agree that the Muslim faith is something that is appropriate for
the white house, it should not matter.
The merits of who a president -- a potential president is or could be is really all that matters. And, like you said, the constitution is that end
all, be all that destroys that slippery slope.
PINSKY: Of course, but here is what really is at the core here, this is really is it; because I asked a Muslim leader today this very question,
which is it seems bigoted to put these sorts of labels on it. It is absolutely bigoted, but the question becomes and I guess I will pose it to
Ryan.
Does the Muslim community have any responsibility to police extremism, since all the problems that we see on the headlines are from extremism
related to that religion? Or, do we -- do you hold Christians responsible for -- I do not know, what went on in northern Ireland? I mean, you know,
what do we hold -- how do we hold people responsible for that kind of that?
CATHERWOOD: That is a good point. If there was continually around the world -- and I am someone, who believes that Ben Carson`s statement was
wildly inappropriate.
BARNETT: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: But it does need to be said that if there were Catholics in South America slaughtering protestants because of their faith, there would
be marching in the streets all over the worlds from all Catholics worldwide.
PINSKY: All right.
CATHERWOOD: Or other faiths --
PINSKY: All right.
CATHERWOOD: And, you know, you do not see that from Barack Obama, right?
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think what they are doing right here is just promoting bigotry. Because, I mean, you could take the word,
Muslim and replace it with Jew, and that sounds like Naziism, you know. I mean if we do not know about a religion we should learn about it.
BARNETT: Right.
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You know, instead of like promoting hate and bigotry against it.
PINSKY: Ryan, I will give you a chance. You have something to say, go ahead.
SORBA: I mean, here is the issue. This is a bad time right now for the mainstream media to attack Donald Trump or Ben Carson about the radical
Islam. The events of September 11th are still in everybody in America`s mind. People still remember what happened.
We have that multiple terrorist attacks on our own soil, not to mention the Boston bombing, the Fort hood shooting and in Dallas, Texas when the
radical Muslim to shoot up everybody that was creating the Muhammad cartoons. This is no the right time.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: You cannot blame the entire community of people because of the selective who are radical. That is what radical is.
SORBA: But, listen, according to Muslim law --
BARNETT: And, that is not fair for us to blame every Muslim-American because of the choices of a few.
PINSKY: But, to be fair, you made this point during our radio program today. You said, "You know, if it were 1945 or 1947, it would be
appropriate to put a German in the White House?
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Maybe we would not object any other time because maybe it is the emotion we are having that makes it --
BARNETT: It does not make it OK.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: I have already established I do not agree with Ben Carson`s statement --
PINSKY: It does not make it OK.
CATHERWOOD: -- but I get it. I mean that is the reality of it. In 1943, nobody would vote for a Japanese-American or a German American. That is
not going to happen.
PINSKY: But -- but that is just as bigoted as it is.
CATHERWOOD: Without question. Without question. I think it, at least, shows that Ben Carson is willing to tell how he truly feels.
PINSKY: Right.
CATHERWOOD: I mean -- Again, I am not saying I agree with it, but I do not understand why people are so wildly surprised by it.
PINSKY: Well, because it flies to face the constitution. The way that question was posed --
CATHERWOOD: You know, so does not allowing people to get married because of your faith --
PINSKY: Speaking of that, Kim Davis, she is -- who is up next. Kim Davis, cannot keep quiet. She has a new controversy about her, tonight, and of
course the same sex marriage licenses that Mike is referring to. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:09:35] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump said the following about you, quote, "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for
that? Can you imagine that the face of our next president." Mr. Trump later said, he was talking about your persona, not your appearance. Please
feel free to respond what you think about his persona.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
TRUMP: I think she has got a beautiful face and I think she is a beautiful woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Carly Fiorina, leaping to second place. Her debate performance landing her at 15 percent. Who do you think is your competition right now?
TRUMP: Ben is a terrific guy, he would be one, and Carly would be another one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Mr. Trump`s lead is shrinking, and Carly is catching up. I am back with Vanessa, Judy, Mike, Ryan and John. So, he made some comments in
"Rolling Stone" Magazine. Will that ultimately do him in? -- Judy?
HO: Oh! I am sorry. You know, I have just been observing everything that has been happening. I know why Trump is still popular, no matter what. It
does not matter what he does --
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Wait. You know why?
HO: I believe I know why.
PINSKY: Let us hear this. We have been asking it for two weeks.
HO: I know, now there is like a lot of pressure, but I think it is what everybody knows in their heart, because he is a celebrity. Nobody wants to
shut off the Donald Trump show, no matter what. Nobody wants to cancel his show.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:15:01] PINSKY: So, except they are enjoying it too much to not support him?
HO: It is like the best reality T.V. ever. Now, everybody cares about the election.
PINSKY: Well, that is good.
CATHERWOOD: I also think that this was the first example of where Mr. Trump would have benefitted from actually apologizing. In the past, I have
been in full support of him in his nonsense ways and why should he apologize? He was speaking how he felt. This made him --
PINSKY: You are talking about his face.
CATEHRWOOD: This made him look foolish. You cannot have it both ways, either you are insane or you were talking about, "Yes, cannot take a look
at that face. Would you want the next person to that face? I was talking about her persona." It does not -- you know what I am saying?
PINSKY: You cannot wake up next to that face?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. "Can you imagine waking up next to that?" It is only a matter of time before these the debates get heated and hiss on his heels,
and he goes, "Look at my wife. All your wives are pigs. My wife is beautiful."
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: And he said -- "As long as you have a sex-relating on your arm" and he suggests the things like that. My problem is, this is not the
forum to talk about women`s looks. And, we do not talk about the man -- No one is saying, "Hey, Ben Carson, I love that fro you got."
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERWOOD: That is not fair. That is not true.
BARNETT: Like no one is talking about what the man is look like.
CATHERWOOD: Plenty of people go and look at Chris Christie`s fat ass. Plenty of people talk about Donald Trump`s ugly face and bloated face and
hair, the difference is, is that -- and you know, call it a gender bias, call it chauvinism, it is just way worst --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: -- doing it to Ms. Fiorina.
PINSKY: Now, what is happening, now, though, Ryan, is Trump is going after her business history. And, she does have a pretty checkered past with
that. I mean she has made -- she is a brilliant -- she has a law degree and an MBA.
And, she is brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, great speaker, but her decision-making in businesses -- I mean, the record speaks for itself.
Lots of jobs lost. She walks away with a bunch of money.
SORBA: I mean, she was fired from Hewlett-Packard. How does that make you qualified to be the United States` President? B, I think --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Thank you. Thank you very much. I think we are missing the big picture here. I mean the big picture is that Americans are fed up with the current
system. I watched the debate. I looked at everything. I watched the debate twice. I looked at clips multiple times. Here is what is
happening.
What is happening is Donald Trump -- OK, the rest of the pack is saying things. Donald Trump, people believe he will actually finally do
something. These other people, they might talk. They might be smooth talkers. They might be gentlemen, but guess what?
We have been listening to gentlemen`s smooth talkers for years and nothing has happened. Donald Trump people believe he is bold enough to actually
finally do something about the problems most Americans feel impact their lives.
BARNETT: I do not think people believe that. That is why people are very upset at the things he said. I do not think there is -- you have these
polls, which I think are skewed, but that is my personal opinion. But, I do not think people are saying, "Oh, I love his bar speaking. He will be a
great leader."
I think people are truly mean, like you said for the show. We are laughing. We are giggling. But, I think there is something fundamentally
wrong when you have someone who always needs to be defended. Why do you have to constantly defend this man and he is supposed to be our next
president?
PINSKY: John, you want to ring in here?
BARNETT: That is the problem.
CARDILLO: Yes. Yes. I want to ring in real -- I want to ring in real quick and talk about the big elephant in the room that nobody is talking
about. Just quick throwback to the last segment. The White House is in hysterical damage control mode because Barack Obama was called a Muslim.
They are exhibiting more Islam-phobia than anybody. Why is not anybody talking about that?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I did not --
CARDILLO: And, Donald Trump -- One last thought. Donald Trump is hitting the populous anger that Americans did. Ryan is 100 percent right. Jeb
Bush is playing nice routine, and all the other establishment republicans play nice routine, loses. We saw it with John McCain. We saw with Mitt
Romney. It is a losing strategy and Trump is a winner.
PINSKY: All right, let me hear from the audience. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not agree with everything Trump says and his opinions, but I love he is bringing these topics to America.
To the candidates, they have to speak of their -- they have to represent what they believe.
And, I do not agree with everything he is saying, but that is the best thing I think we have had in many, many elections of years. Just like you
are saying, we are angry with a lot of things, and it is time for somebody to not just be the status quo and be of, you know --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: But it is what I keep hearing is, which is that he is tapping into anger.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: And, the anger is coming out now and he is expressing it. And, PC fatigue, that they are speaking their mind. That people are tired of sort
of towing the line.
BARNETT: But there are PC for a reason, because when you are not PCing, you go around saying, "Oh, I love the Muslims. I love the blacks. I love
these and that." That is also a problem. So, just because he says wild things and he gets us all riled up and want to have conversations, does not
mean --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But on top of it, putting on the table - people to have different opinions about it.
BARNETT: By all means, let us have a conversation but do not run for president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Have a conversation.
BARNETT: Let us have a conversation in hell. Bring them on the show here. We will all talk. We will all have a great conversation, but that does not
make him a great president because he brings conversations. He gets it in here and bring conversation.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We need to get people to have an opinion and express it over and over, not be afraid of those topics.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
HO: Listen. There is not actually an intellectual brain force of the topic, because that stuff off the cuff. And, it is just a very genera
comment and he is always inconsistent. So, I do not believe he is adding any intellectual thought to the conversation. He is just --
[21:20:01] CATHERWOOD: I am not sure that, that is important. I am not sure that, that is important.
HO: It probably is not.
BARNETT: Anybody can bring up a conversation.
PINSKY: Let me look at the piece of tape of him on NBC`s "Today Show" this morning. He took issue with their CNN polls -- the use of the CNN polls.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC ANCHOR OF "THE TODAY SHOW" PROGRAM: This latest national poll by CNN does show a decrease for you. And, more importantly
in all of the polls done post-debate, Carly Fiorina is surging.
TRUMP (via phone): But, I do not understand why NBC is using a CNN poll, which was also a good poll. I am leading by a lot. But, the NBC poll that
you announced yesterday was fantastic and you did not talk about that.
GUTHRIE: No. I meant -- well, I tried to.
TRUMP: Why are not you talking --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Do we have -- We have that CNN -- the NBC poll, do we not? Here it comes. He is ahead 24 percent. The CNN poll, down 8 percent. Carly up
3 percent to 15. Ben Carson is 14. There it is.
The NBC poll has dropped to 29 percent. Carson at 14. Carly at 11. 32 percent of republicans think in that poll that Trump will win the
nomination. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think it is very interesting that people keep discussing. He is bringing up the topics. He is bringing up
the topics, but what is he saying?
HO: Great point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: What is he addressing? What answers does he give you? I still do not understand it. And, to keep warping on,
"Oh, Obama, was he born in U.S. The last I checked, maybe you need a geography lesson, because I think Hawaii is a state --
PINSKY: I think you are right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I think that is where he is born. So, I do not even understand why it continues to be a controversy.
HO: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would like to hear him speak some facts instead of some rhetoric about who he does not like. I do not like
his shoes. I do not like your face.
(LAUGHING)
HO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not want to hear any of that. I want to hear what his plan is as far as leading.
PINSKY: Politics.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: And, you read the book now, did you read his policies and you figure out what he is intending?
SORBA: Listen, Dr. Drew, I am glad that you asked that question because if you read Donald Trump`s book, "Get Tough America," and he is about to
release the second book in October you will learn that Donald Trump lays out a lot of facts and a lot of particulars and he is continuing to roll
out particulars on his website as time goes on.
In addition to that, for example, Trump discusses the fact that we are in a $450 billion trade deficit with China. What kind of businessman would run
a business where consistently year after year, we run a $450 billion deficit. You shut it down. Bankrupt it. It is over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You keep talking about books people do not read.
SORBA: No. No. No. You are talking about one in particular. You want particulars, I am giving them.
CATHERWOOD: That is a very important point to make.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: And, Ryan may be very right. Maybe he does lend out all of these particulars. He did not do it in either debate.
SORBA: But, the issue is --
CATHERWOOD: He had a remarkably -- and I am -- this is not -- I am not a Trump hater.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: I think that he has done a lot for the political system in this country to galvanize interest.
HO: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: But especially in the second debate in Simi Valley, he had every opportunity to kind of at least give a peek of what he envisioned for
the United States, and I think he fell very flat.
SORBA: Mike. Mike, listen --
HO: He is a great communicator. It is easy for him to actually be able to talk about this in an engaging way, because he has been able to do so. So,
I believe that the fact that that he did not bring up the particulars means that really that is not where he sees --
SORBA: But, I think the issue is --
HO: He does not believe that, that is how he is going to get the popular vote.
PINSKY: I agree.
HO: And, he is interested in the popular vote.
PINSKY: I think Judy is right. I think he got to be strategic about it.
SORBA: Well, I do too. I think the issue is that Trump is trying to talk to different segments of the United States population. And, in one way he
has to play the media, which he is excellent at doing. He is a media marketing genius.
CATHERWOOD: Without question.
SORBA: That is first and foremost. Second of all. He has to talk to people that are more interested. And, people that are more interested will
self select. In other words, they will go online. Read his policies. They will go to the bookstore and by his book and then they will learn his
particulars. So, he is trying each -- United States population strategically in winning.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: All right. I got to go. I got to go on, but you know one of the things -- as an African-American, did you have trouble with that panel?
Did you feel like they spoke to any issues that you were concerned with during the debates?
BARNETT: No. Not particularly.
PINSKY: That is what keep -- I keep hearing back from -- they have to get more involved in topics that matter to populations they have normally not
been well-connected to.
BARNETT: Especially right now.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. I agree. Next is Kim Davis at it again. The controversial court clerk may be altering marriage licenses. Is that OK?
Are they still valid? We will get into that, after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:24:26] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You were elected to an office. The law changed, and it comes in conflict with your religious principles, what do you do?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL CONSULTANT: Of course, she is going to defy the court order, because she is going to get parade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Kim Davis came to the office and confiscated all of the original forms and provided a changed form, which deletes all
mentions of the county. Deletes her name, deletes all of the deputy clerk references.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE PATAKI, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: An elected official cannot say that, "I am not going to follow that law if it conflicts with her beliefs."
I think she should have been fired, and if she would have worked for me, I would have fired her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We made accommodation to the Fort Hood shooter to let him grow a beard. We made accommodations to the
detainees at Gitmo. You are telling me that you cannot make an accommodation for an elected democrat county clerk from Rowan County,
Kentucky?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: She refused to give marriage licenses to same-sex marriage couples. Kim Davis got hate mail, death threats and now is speaking out
about the reaction on ABC News. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA FARIS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: What hurts you most?
KIM DAVIS, ROWAN COUNTY CLERK WHO REFUSES TO ISSUE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE LICENSES: What people say about me does not define who I am. That is
everybody`s opinion and that is everybody`s right.
I have been called Hitler. I have been hypocrite. I have been called a homophobe. I have been called things and names that I did not even say
when I was in the world.
[21:30:10] Those names do not hurt me. What probably hurts me the worst is when someone tells me that my God does not love me. I am just a normal
person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Judy, Vanessa, Mike and Ryan. Mike, do you feel bad for her?
CATHERWOOD: Yes, a little bit. I mean I really, really, really do not agree with her. And, I think, you know, what she has done has been very
disappointing as an American, but you know no one deserves to get death threats. No one deserves to be, you know --
PINSKY: But, you know, social media. We all finish -- wrap up a show here. We all get stuff like that.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Yes, I understand that, but it does not make it right. I mean I can empathize with someone. It is really terrible to have people tell
you stuff. And, I can only imagine, she probably gets legitimate death threats.
PINSKY: Why did not she quit?
CATHERWOOD: And, she looks like John Malkovich. Nobody noticed that? I am serious.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I mean I guess you really cannot quit because she is elective. But, she could quit, right? She gets sick.
BARNETT: I think she should.
PINSKY: Whatever --
BARNETT: She should absolutely leave her job.
HO: I think she should absolutely leave her job when it is clear that for her --
PINSKY: If I had a job that was inconsistent with my belief, I would leave the job.
HO: That is right.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: Right. Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew --
HO: Exactly. I mean, think about it. Does any vegan like being forced to go serve burgers? I mean if they do not believe in eating meat, why do it?
It is a similar thing. You know, we do not have to judge her belief say, "I do not agree with her."
PINSKY: No.
HO: But, if you do not want to do it, do not take the job that actually has it as part of your job description.
CATHERWOOD: You are missing the point. All of you are missing the point. She is staying around because she is getting parades and she is getting
attention and she is getting as many death threats as she is getting as many times as someone has called her Hitler as many times as some greasy
haired dude called her John Malkovich.
20 more people have called her what a beautiful specimen she is and she is doing the Lord`s work. And, there is people showing -- look at that. I
mean that is a rock star reception.
HO: That is so upsetting.
PINSKY: Well, now, she has --
HO: It is upsetting.
PINSKY: She has altered the marriage form. She is removing her name. She is requiring the initialized --
BARNETT: She is a shady --
PINSKY: -- notarized by her deputy clerks. So Ryan, is she really trying to do what she says she is doing, to just get herself out of this process
that she objects to or is she doing something that she knows darn well is not going to hold up and it is going to end up going back to court?
SORBA: No. Dr. Drew, here is what Kim Davis is trying to do. Here is the situation. Here is some facts that a lot of people have not heard.
Several of the individuals who came up to get a license were actually from the state of Ohio.
They heard that Kim Davis was opposed to putting her name on gay marriage licenses because she went before the state legislator and begged them,
pleaded with them, "Please just give me a way out like they have done in North Carolina and like they have done in Utah."
They have provided ways that magistrates and clerks can get out of putting their names on marriage licenses. She went -- she begged them, please help
me get my name off of this form. They said, "You are not important enough. You are not a big deal. We are not going to do anything about it. We are
too busy." And, then they went to recess.
Individuals from Ohio, which is where -- came to Kentucky to Rowan County to -- it is specifically with the video cameras in hand to harass this poor
woman. They could not wait until legislator came back in session, so that they can solve this constructively. They wanted to make an example out of
her to intimidate Christians the country into being afraid to stand up to the gay-stoppo. That is what this is actually about.
HO: I do not think she speaks for all Christians. I am sorry. --
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: She does not speak for all Christians. Look, everybody who knows me knows I go hard for my lord and savior, Jesus Christ. I go hard in the
pain. But, I also know --
PINSKY: By the way, someone came and tried to marry Jesus, literally, went to her for a marriage license. She refused, because both parties were not
present.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: I actually know that.
CAHERWOOD: Yes. But, unfortunately, like a million guys from L.A., who showed up her name Jesus, and they are like, "Wait, do you want to get
married?"
HO: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Go ahead. Go ahead.
BARNETT: I also know that there are problems with her stance because she does come off as a hypocrite. And, it is unfortunate because as a
Christian we understand that there is sin among all of us. No one is higher than no one else than --
PINSKY: She had four marriages.
BARNETT: Exactly.
HO: Yes.
BARNETT: And, adultery is not --
PINSKY: And cheated. And, her kids were out of wedlock.
BARNETT: That is not OK. There are several things that she has done in her personal life that would be frowned upon and considered sin.
HO: That is right.
BARNETT: And, so, in her case, using the bible and using the word and using Christianity as her shield is almost detrimental --
HO: Yes.
BARNETT: -- because you can poke holes in that all day long.
PINSKY: Right.
HO: Yes.
BARNETT: And, so, it is frustrating as a Christian.
PINSKY: Mike, I just heard that Vanessa is a sinner. That is all I heard. Let us hear from the audience. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, if you are given a job to do and she knew it when she took this job that there would be things,
probably, that she does not like, and I am sure there are other jobs there that she could step away from the job that she is currently doing and do
something that did not involve this kind of thing.
BARNETT: Yes. Absolutely.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:35:00] PINSKY: And, the governor says that those marriage licenses are valid, that they will be honored.
HO: I hope.
PINSKY: Yes, I hope it is still.
CATHERWOOD: Ryan brings up a point that maybe there were crusaders out there, who were looking to make an example out of Kim Davis. But, in turn,
she has done -- made an example out of herself and is continuing to do so.
PINSKY: You think she likes the fame, take a big part of this?
CATHERWOOD: Possibly.
PINSKY: All right.
CATHERWOOD: I mean, the accolade has to be addicting.
PINSKY: We will keep it going.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, that is an interesting point too. Let us get to that and more. And, later, Donald Trump Twitter fail. We will show you how it all
went wrong. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Listen, I do not think she is a dreadful person, but I do think she is a dreadful Christian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: I am willing to face my consequences as you all will face your consequences when it comes time for judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT STAVER, KIN DAVIS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She cannot allow her name to be associated with something that conflicts with God`s definition of marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:01] ODUOLOWU: What bothers me the most is, she is doing it saying on the authority of God`s authority, like God is speaking to her to her to
defy supreme court mandated law. That is grandstanding. And, that is not Christianity.
MARTIN: They are comparing her to Rosa Parks.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: What?
MARTIN: Martin Luther King Jr.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ODUOLOWU: Martin Luther King Jr. was for the equality of all people.
SCHACHER: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: He was not talking for the equality of some --
SORBA: OK. Martin Luther King --
ODUOLOWU: -- but of all people --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am just thinking the biggest part about the problem with marriage these days is the disposability, and she has had four marriages.
HO: Yes. Right..
PINSKY: Is not that defiling God`s concept to marriage. I am just saying. Kim Davis has become a -- became a popular punch line last night on the
Emmy show, on Fox network last night. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY SAMBERG, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: Paula Deen is on this season of dancing with the stars, but I got to say, if I wanted to see an intolerant lady
dance, I would have gotten one of Kim Davis` four weddings.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)
HO: Amazing.
PINSKY: Back with Judy, Vanessa, Mike, and Ryan. And, Vanessa, I just do not get the picking and choosing, you know. I am a sinner here, but I am
not here. It is OK now --
BARNETT: And, that is a very secular thing to say that one sin is greater than the next. That is not what the bible preaches at all. As you always
know, I always talk about just the love of people. Christ also said love thy neighbor.
PINSKY: Fine. Stay with that.
BARNETT: He did not go and say, "And, judge everybody."
PINSKY: Live like Jesus. She is not doing that, in my opinion. Right? He welcomed in all the sinners. He wanted them to be with her. Yes,
ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIE FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: She has a job to do and if she does not want to resign I think she should be fired.
BARNETT: But they would sue. She was sued on that.
PINSKY: I do not think she can be fired because she is elected, right, Ryan?
SORBA: She cannot be fired because she was an elected official and they have to wait for the legislator to come back in session and they would have
to impeach her. But, Kentucky is an extremely conservative state that voted for man-woman marriage 75 percent to 25 percent. So, is the
legislature going to sue her -- or impeach her? No, absolutely not. They will not do it.
HO: This is huge fitness for duty issue. She does not fit for duty. She literally cannot carry out one of the main tasks of her job. So, whether
or not the belief systems are at play, she is not fit for duty, Dr. Drew, and that is the biggest problem here. I do not care about her beliefs,
really, is that she cannot do the job that she was elected to do.
PINSKY: So, what should she do? She should step down?
HO: She should actually step down instead of waiting for people to come and step her down. She should actually do it herself, because as a
Christian she might, actually want to hold herself to higher standards and do her job right. That is also another Christian value. So, she chooses,
whichever ones that he wants to follow in particular.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Ryan, you do not think so.
SORBA: No. Dr. Drew, come on, what we are essentially saying here is that if you hold to the Christian doctrine you cannot hold them any elected
office.
PINSKY: No.
BARNETT: What?
SORBA: Because here is the thing.
HO: You missed the point.
SORBA: Utah and North Carolina both have created a compromise. They have said if you want to opt out of having your name on these licenses, you can
do it. 30 magistrates in North Carolina have opted out and multiples in Utah --
PINSKY: She should go there.
HO: Yes.
SORBA: No. All we are saying is why not create a compromise?
PINSKY: Well, that may happen --
SORBA: Yes.
PINSKY: But in the meantime --
SORBA: That is the right thing.
PINSKY: That may happen, but in the meantime --
DAVIS: When that happens, she can do her job -- continue to do her job. But, as for now she is simply doing this for the attention and because I
think she was very cognizant of the support she is going to receive from people who are, you know, feel the same way. I mean, I definitely --
SORBA: I just do not see why we are not advocating for a compromise.
PINSKY: I was at one point, but she keeps pressing the issue.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: It is a timing issue. Yes, ma`am
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, I think that her religion needs to stay outside the door because she is a public servant. And, she gets
paid by the taxpayers. And, if you are not going to serve your public, then you need to get another job. I do not say that she should get fire,
but they should work with her. But if you are not going to serve the public then yes, she needs to get another job.
PINSKY: So, it is a dicey area, I got to admit, though. So, if you have strongly held beliefs at one time or another and you get an elected job
where you are in conflict with your beliefs, would you advise them just to stop, that is it or fight for their beliefs? It is a little dicey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If it was me and my beliefs would come first. And, if I realized that it would become a problem later on --
PINSKY: You would stop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- down the line in the job. Yes, I would step down.
HO: You step down --
BARNETT: Look, if this is really about your beliefs then you go to the Lord, you ask him for guidance, and you step out on faith and you do what
God is telling you to do. I do not think God is telling you to extract your own judgment on people you do not agree with.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: What is the end game? What is the end game? It seems to me that somebody is trying to make an issue about gay marriage.
SORBA: Listen, the end game --
PINSKY: It has been decided by the Supreme Court as the law of the land. What do we do?
SORBA: The end game is the following, Christians need to be able to have the freedom to be Christians and serve in public office. This nation was
founded on the Christian -- Judeo-Christian natural law that is the subtext for the constitution. And, there are some things going on in society that
are contrary to that subtext.
PINSKY: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just think just like we are seeing earlier, she is being paraded around and stuff. I think everybody needs to
stop fuelling the fire. Like just --
[21:45:06] PINSKY: Look the other way. Look the other way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Look the other way. Just let her go. And, if she is going to do her job, let her do her job, and if she messes
up again, do not make it into a big all circus again.
PINSKY: Well, in keeping with our audience wishes, we are going to move on.
HO: Yes.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Next, a little girl tells the divorce of her parents. How they could behave and millions of people are behind her. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds, and Vanessa is first.
[21:50:02] BARNETT: My favorite, Jessica Simpson is like trending. Her clothing lines. She is trending --
PINSKY: She is your favorite? I did not know that.
BARNETT: Yes. I love my Jessica. But I am sure this was not the kind of pressure she was looking for. She was actually quoted as looking unsteady
and slurring during the appearance on HSN.
PINSKY: We have footage?
BARNETT: In this clip, we are going to get -- we have a clip, she is promoting a line of jeans and talking about her sister, Ashley, take a
look.
PINSKY: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA SIMPSON, SINGER-TURNED-LIFESTYLE BRAND EXPERT: Ashley is like the best at wearing gray, my younger sister --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE HOST: Your sister.
SIMPSON: She loves gray. She is very rock and roll. But, there is something about a gray that is sexy. Maybe it is her and her husband have
shared jeans, I have no idea.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE HOST: You know what?
SIMPSON: I do not know, there is something hot about them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There is your girl.
BARNETT: There is my girl. There is a problem when you can fit the same jeans of your husband, that is a personal belief of mine. Any whose, the
president of HSN told entertainment that Jessica was on air live for two hours -- long time. And, it is quote, "A completely different beast than a
typical question and answer talk show."
PINSKY: That is true. It took a long time.
BARNETT: I am not slurring in this show is only an hour.
CATHERWOOD: How many years have we been doing like five hours in live radio? --
PINSKY: I know. I know. I sound pretty terrible after the fifth hour. And, Judy, what is up?
(LAUGHING)
HO: OK. Well, the world`s newest viral video star is a 6-year-old girl. She overheard and witnessed an argument between her divorced parents. And,
what she did was call her mother back into the house and have a stern talking to. So, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 6-YEAR-OLD GIRL: Mom, are you ready to be his friend?
UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 6-YEAR-OLD GIRL: I want you and my dad to be settled and be friends. I am not trying to be mean. I just want everybody to be friends.
And, if I can be nice I think all of us can be nice, too. I am not trying to be mean, but I am trying to do my best in my heart. I just want
everything to be settled down. Nothing else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Genius.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: Listen. I am telling you, you, parents --
BARNETT: That is the best.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, that was the best. Parents that -- you know say things like, "Do not you want your mommy and daddy to be happy and that is why we
divorced?" Kids will tell you sometimes in response, "Do not you want me to be happy?"
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: "I want you to stay together and in this kid`s case, at least get along for God`s sake.
HO: Yes. That is how they speak their truth. You know, I mean it is really amazing because the mom, actually did post the video. So, obviously
she was at least OK in admitting.
PINSKY: How could that not cut through to you? Come on.
BARNETT: Is not she a little shade queen, which I like. I am not trying to be mean, but you all should get together.
(LAUGHING)
HO: Yes.
BARNETT: I like that.
HO: I am trying to be nice.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Mike, what is up?
CATHERWOOD: Earlier today, Donald Trump had what is being called an epic twitter fail. He asked the public to tweet him questions using the hash
tag, #AskTrump. It have might been a good idea until people started tweeting questions like, and I quote, "If you dig under your hair, down
through the scalp, down through the scalp, underneath the skull, is there just a bunch of orange chicken from panda express?"
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)
I thought I heard all the critics of Donald Trump`s hair. I thought I heard all the slams and all the bags, that is something new. I love it.
Trump did address several serious questions, one specifically about the presidential salary, and Trump said, he would not, quote, "Take even one
dollar."
PINSKY: He waived the Salary. All right.
HO: OK.
PINSKY: Wow. So, I will remember not to put a challenge out there to take on all Twitter questions.
(LAUGHING)
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: All right, I got -- coming up, I got my own "Click Fix." It is a wedding that has gotten a lot of attention, a lot of paparazzi going after
it. I will show you some pictures after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:54:22] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
PINSKY: Good job, Mike. Well done. Well, my Facebook page has been blowing up with what has seemed to be wedding photos. This is a very
exclusive event. Paparazzi all over the place. But, we managed to get our hands on our very own picture, particularly the bride. Take a look at
this.
Yes, this is the Dr. Judy Ho getting married. We have lots of pictures, paparazzi was very good to us. I believe Vanessa you were a witness to all
of these events. Pretty nice. Mike Catherwood, you were in Belfast. I do not know what your excuse was, but you missed the event of the year.
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: We were in a Trump resort too.
HO: No. We were not at the Trump Resort. Oh my God! We were at the Caronia, but it was like next door. We almost -- Thank God we did not.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. She married Dr. Pablo -- is Pablo`s last name, Gavatsa?
HO: Yes, Gavatsa.
PINSKY: OK. He is an anesthesiologist. A great guy. September 12th. I was honored to be there with my wife, Susan. As I said, Vanessa was there.
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: Now, we had a blast.
BARNETT: I had the time of my life. The food was impeccable.
HO: Yey!
BARNETT: And, I danced, and I had a great time. Me and my husband, we had a great time.
PINSKY: Yes. Mike was in Belfast.
CATHERWOOD: I was not there.
HO: And, you missed that. Why do not you have to leave town?
CATHERWOOD: What is your husband? He is --
PINSKY: He is an anesthesiologist.
CATHERWOOD: No. Like Hispanic? What is the deal, Pablo?
HO: He is Argentinean.
CATHERWOOD: Argentinean -- Ooh.
BARNETT: And, he said -- in his vow, he said, "I will defend her, and it was amazing."
PINSKY: It was great. It was really beautiful. Thank you, Judy for the food.
HO: Thank you. Thank you all.
[22:00:00] PINSKY: A reminder that we are on snap chat. You can join us there. It is Dr.DrewHLN. You can watch us any time if you DVR us. I want
to thank you all for being here and thank you all for watching us. See you next time.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
END
