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Dr. Drew
Transgender Woman Says She Was Harassed, Humiliated at Airport Security Screening; Can Edible Pot Make You Kill? Aired 9-10p ET.
Aired September 24, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, M.D., HOST "DR. DREW ON CALL": Tonight a transgender woman says she was harassed and humiliated when an airport security
screener revealed male body parts. You`ll hear more about that. Plus can edible pot make you kill someone? A man accused of murdering his wife
insists that`s so. It all starts right now at the top of the feed.
A transgender woman flagged for an anomaly during a routine airport screening. She says she was harassed because she is transsexual. Watch
this.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A transgender woman claims she was discriminated against by airport security while traveling through Florida. During a
full-body scan an anomaly was detected in her groin area. Despite handing over her ID, she was detained and thoroughly rescreened by the TSA while
she documented the entire experience on Twitter.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me we`ve got Sam Schacher, Pop Trigger on HULU.com; Areva Martin, attorney, legal consultant; Mike Catherwood, my co-host on KABC
radio 790 and Loveline, and Chain Reaction on GSN, where he`s the host; Anahita Sadaghatfar, attorney of counsel to The Cochran Firm; Jessica
Taylor, transgender airline pilot; and Shadi Petosky, the woman making the mistreatment claims against the TSA. Thank you all for joining us.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
TSA agents calibrate these scanners, I wasn`t aware of this, but apparently the scanners we all walk through, at least one version of these scanners,
they`re calibrated for either male or female, based on how you look when you walk over to the scanner. Shadi, am I right, this is where things went
wrong for you?
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SHADI PETOSKY: Right I was walking into the scanner and the TSA agent just looks at you and then presses either a blue male button or a pink female
button.
PINSKY: And then in your case they pushed female and you didn`t come through the scanner as female? They wouldn`t send you back as male? Or
what -- I`m confused.
PETOSKY: Yeh, well there are boys and girls and birds and bees.
PINSKY: Wait, slow down, slow down, slow down. I`m taking notes, Shadi, I`m taking notes. Hold on a second. I didn`t get all, I didn`t get all
this in medical school, so hold on a second. No, but, but let`s put it this way. I assume after you went through they offered you a private
screening of some type, right, or a search in a back room? Yeh, go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PETOSKY: This issue is that, when they scanned by body as a female body, they -- you could kind of see those yellow marks. The yellow mark goes
right over a clock -- a crotch.
PINSKY: Yeh.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PETOSKY: And I told them that that was my penis, and that I was transgender. And then the problems started happening when the TSA agent
said, oh, you`re a man, I should have scanned you as a man. And I said, I`m not a man, I`m transgender. And then he started saying are you a woman
or are you a man? Are you woman or man, in front of every one. And so I asked for a supervisor.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: OK, well, which you`re entitled to. Sam, you`re groaning at this.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST POP TRIGGER, HULU: I just feel so bad because, if people would just come from a place of empathy and learning, and I think
this TSA agent comes from obviously a place of ignorance. And the most outrageous part of this story for me is she had such a courage to go on
Twitter and say, listen, we need to have sensitivity training, we need to have procedures to help trans women, trans men, go through these security
procedures at the airport. And then what happened was people started to victim blame her. People started to say that she wasn`t complying, which
was never the case. And people were using that as a way to discriminate against her and other trans people.
PINSKY: Shadi, stay with me. I going to walk through this gently, and you tell me, and Jessica you help me too, especially when I get off track here.
That, that -- let`s just for the sake of conversation say that you recognized they had a policy problem, rather than make an issue of this as
you`re walking through it that day, get on your plane, forget it and then come back like now, and then try to raise a stink about it, rather than
right there. My understanding is you actually missed your plane, is that right?
PETOSKY: Yes. Well.
PINSKY: Why raise the issue right there and then.
PETOSKY: Well, I`ll tell you. Because, since my penis set off the scanner, I had to go in for additional pat down. And so they did that, and
then they swabbed my hands, and they detected explosives. Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: We`re with you. OK.
PETOSKY: So then I said, that`s really convenient that this happened. And then I had to go into a private screening room, get a full-body screening,
have all my luggage checked, and then they detected explosives again.
PINSKY: Jessica, help me with this. What was that?
(END VIDEO TAPE)
JESSICA TAYLOR, TRANSGENDERED AIRLINE PILOT: This is complex, this is where it really starts to unfold in this room right here. `Cause we`re
talking about explosives. Now if we look back in the airline history, there`s a couple of different people that decided to make their names known
as the Underwear Bomber.
PINSKY: Yeh.
TAYLOR: That`s one of the biggest one. I think his name was Amar.
PINSKY: So this is why Shadi ended up in trouble, because of the Underwear Bomber, yes?
TAYLOR: Well, people like the Underwear Bomber, where we`ve had people try to hide explosive devices in certain parts of their body or maybe in their
shoes, that would lead them to believe that this person needs a special screening.
PINSKY: But let me, let me flip it back to take a different position, Jessica, and say, really, just because they saw a penis they think.
TAYLOR: No, absolutely not. It`s, it`s the combination, that there was something -- there was an anomaly, and then we get the secondary on that
that this has happened. Now the problem with this is, is where it goes from there. Where they say, OK, there`s an anomaly. You want a private
screening? OK, let`s go do the private screening, let`s get this done. They didn`t offer that in that fashion. They said, hey, let`s send you
back through as a man.
PETOSKY: Right.
TAYLOR: That is the problem. That`s like saying, hey, listen you`re a white person, we`re going to push the African American button and you need
to go through that scanner too. And that`s the same type of thing.
PINSKY: Anahita.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY, OF COUNSEL, THE COCHRAN FIRM: That`s how scanners work though, Dr. Drew. And I sympathize with her. She didn`t
have to go through that, and I am no fan of the TSA by any means.
PINSKY: Well, I am, they try to keep us safe.
SADAGHATFAR: Well, they miss 95 percent, they miss 95 percent (inaudible).
PINSKY: They`re a pain in the butt.
SADAGHATFAR: That`s a whole other debate, that`s a whole other debate. And the reality is though we live in a post 9-11 world.
PINSKY: Yeh.
SADAGHATFAR: They can`t take chances. There`s no opportunity here to risk, and just take this woman`s word for what she`s saying this was. I
think that, you know, at the end of the day she has a right. I think she should have complained after, but the TSA security check point is not the
place to raise transgender sensitivity issues or awareness, I`m sorry.
PINSKY: Areva, is that true?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND AUTHOR, LOS ANGELES: I totally disagree with her. It absolutely was the right place for her to raise an issue. She has
a right to be treated by the sex that she identifies with, the gender that she identifies.
PINSKY: In that moment? No matter.
MARTIN: In that moment.
SCHACHER: How embarrassing.
MARTIN: I don`t get to be black today, but not black when it`s not convenient for me. I`m black always.
PINSKY: Hang on, this man wants to say (inaudible). Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, same thing. Like how come she wasn`t open when they -- if she would have been open. The TSA was doing their job, man.
SCHACHER: She was open, though, that`s the problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told them she was a transgender?
SCHACHER: Yes, she right from the get go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
SCHACHER: She said I`m trans and I have a penis. And I think where it`s been misconstrued in the media and on social media is people are
immediately saying she was not complying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
SCHACHER: That`s not the issue, she was complying.
SADAGHATFAR: But did she comply? Doctor, I guess I`m not really clear. My understanding was they offered her -- OK, it`s takes 10 seconds, let`s
recalibrate the machine, go through as a male. It`s my understanding she said no.
PINSKY: They found explosives on her.
SADAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, I`ve had to do this. I`ve had to go through airport screening machines multiple times. My earrings to go off. OK,
ma`am, go back, walk (inaudible). Take your belt off.
PINSKY: Listen, I`ve had the full, I`ve had the full take you in the back room (inaudible).
(CROSS-TALK).
SCHACHER: You, guys, stop. We all have. Hold on, no. Hold on. We all have. But you and you are not discriminated against every single day like
she is and like other trans people out there. So I`m sorry.
PINSKY: So, Shadi, what happened? We`re, we`re trying to figure out what actually goes on. The delay was because of explosives, right?
PETOSKY: Well, yes, but there`s a problem that you`re talking about me without me.
PINSKY: That`s why I`m coming to you.
PETOSKY: You`re totally wrong.
PINSKY: OK, good, please, straighten us out.
PETOSKY: I actually -- I did disclose that I was trans immediately when that flagged. And I actually requested to go back to the scanner and they
could push whatever button they want.
PINSKY: OK. But, but.
PETOSKY: So.
PINSKY: By that point, though, they`d done the screening and explosives showed up. Really it`s the explosives..
PETOSKY: No, no, but before that, before that I said can I just be rescanned. Because the other issue is, as a, as a trans woman, like TSA
has a protocol that says whatever I`m presenting as, that the officer who pats me down. But they made me have to choose. And they made me have to
choose between making some woman touch my groin, which I didn`t want to do, or some man touching everything else.
PINSKY: Couldn`t you ask for both?
PETOSKY: Ha! They weren`t, they weren`t really (inaudible) a lot of questions.
SADAGHATFAR: I`m not quite sure what else the TSA could have done in that instance. If they`re, if they`re screening her hands and they find
residue, what then do you suggest?
PINSKY: Well, let me ask the pilot. I want the pilot to comment.
TAYLOR: That`s what ties their hands. There`s two sides to this story and one is the transgender aspect. There`s two things in aviation that I never
want to have to deal with. One is a fire on the airplane and the other one is when the flight attendant comes up and says there`s something in the
back, we don`t know what it is. That`s the one where are hearts sink and we go, how do we deal with this, we don`t know what to deal with this. Now
the transgender side of this, it stinks. Somebody called out a female woman, a woman, and said you`re a man, you`re going to go through it as a
man. That`s trouble, and that`s a civil rights lawsuit in the fine print right there.
PINSKY: Hold it right there, everybody. Stay right, I`m going to get you in the audience. Oop, pupup, I`ll get to (inaudible). I (inaudible) take
a quick break. The conversation goes on. Later on we`ll get into pot. Can pot -- I love this -- can it make you insane? That`s what accused wife
murderer says. He says, yes, it made him insane. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A transgender woman says she was harassed by airport security and she documented her experience on Twitter. During her
screening an anomaly was detected in her groin area, and she was detained by the TSA for so long she missed her flight. The TSA says its agents
followed training and protocol for screening transgender travelers, but her Twitter followers say trans people face the same fight when they fly too.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: The transgender woman we`re talking about here was detained by airport security when her genital area, her genital region, tripped off an
alarm because she was passed through the scanner as a female, but she was male, so we`ve been arguing whether this was discrimination or just proper
security policy. I`m back with Sam, Areva, Mike, Anahita, Jessica, and we have Shadi, the woman that was in this situation. And, Mike, you want to
make a comment?
MIKE CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST "LOVELINE", KABC RADIO, AND "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: I`m just, you know, frankly I can empathize.
PINSKY: Stop it, I know what.
CATHERWOOD: .because I`ve actually had to go through this in the opposite direction because I went through as a man, and they saw me and they
realized there was so little in my pants.
PINSKY: They thought you were a female, OK, I get it.
CATHERWOOD: Sir, I`m sorry.
PINSKY: Let`s, let`s.
CATHERWOOD: Sir, can you go back again.
MARTIN: This is a serious issue, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: I`m just saying, I could use a genital anomaly. That`s all I`m saying.
PINSKY: Let me go out to my audience. Yes, ma`am. What do you got there?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I don`t think that this is any way comparable to being black because a machine is designed to identify me as black when I walk
through it, it`s going to identify me as black. This person was born a male so, when they say, I`m a woman, scan me through as a woman, it`s going
to find that you`re male. That`s why the machine went off. It has nothing to do with you and I getting equal treatment because you are born male.
You don`t have a vagina.
PINSKY: And, Shadi, I think we`re going into the weeds here a bit and getting lost in your story. That was not what you were concerned with,
right?
PETOSKY: No, that`s -- it`s funny that everybody thinks it`s about concealment. Trans people are always being criticized for our being frauds
or concealing something. I can go through as a male or female, whatever gets me through quickly. No one asked me.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
A TSA agent looks at me, pushes a button, and then makes me responsible for their guess. It`s not fair.
PINSKY: But, but then.
SEDAGHATFAR: What do you suggest they should have done? I mean no one`s answering that question? I sympathize with you.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
I do, I do agree it was traumatic for you. But it seems to me they had a very clear policy, the policy is fair. They said, if you`re transgender,
you can request a private screening, you can have a witness in the room with you, you can request to have a supervisor with you. What, what other
means can they provide to transgender people that would be fair to you?
PINSKY: Well, Jessica, you, you said where the rubber hits the road is this civil rights issue. So pick it up (inaudible).
TAYLOR: And that`s what it comes down to. The TSA has no policy when it comes to transgender people. That`s where the civil rights issue stands.
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): I thought it was on line, I thought it was on line.
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): It was removed, it was removed. Since 2012 it was removed.
TAYLOR: No, there`s nothing. When it comes, when it comes to an identification feature such as your driver`s license, the policy states you
must answer identifying questions, other identifying questions. There`s nothing when it comes to your physical appearance. I have gotten line
after line after line on my Facebook, Jessica, what do I do as an airline pilot? And I can tell you right now, there`s no answer. We need answers
and the TSA needs to answer this now. And it needs to be done.
PINSKY: (inaudible)
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: As a former flight attendant, and I flew during 9-11, and I climbed into overhead bins and looked for bombs. So the fact that
you have to go through a scanner, so be it. Safety is first. That`s what TSA is there for.
SCHACHER: Here`s the thing though.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: If you make your lifestyle choices, yes, they should be respected, but you need to understand it`s not about you, it`s about the
safety of everyone that`s flying.
SCHACHER: OK, hold on. First of all, first of all. No, it`s not about -- you guys are missing the point. It`s not -- first of all, it`s not a
lifestyle, it`s not a lifestyle issue, but the point here is how do we, how do we do better? How do we implement additional procedures to -- so that
they`re inclusive to trans people? How do we do better? It shouldn`t be about TSA being wrong or this person being right. Because I don`t think
the TSA agent, hopefully, was not malicious about that. I don`t think that at all, and I`m grateful that they`re looking out for our security, but we
can do better.
PINSKY: Areva?
MARTIN: I think you`re conflating the issues. I haven`t heard her say that she had an issue with them testing her for this residue that may have
been related to, to an alleged bomb. The issue is about how they treated her and forced her to identify with a gender that she doesn`t identify
with, and no one should be publicly humiliated or forced to identify with a gender that they`re not. She should be recognized as a woman, if she says
she`s a woman. Now the bomb issue is totally separate. We all can agree that, if there was some residue of bombs, then check it out because we
agree safety is paramount.
PINSKY: Now hold on. Areva, hold on.
SCHACHER: (inaudible) on the machine.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. What I heard her say and, Jessica, straighten me out again if I`m wrong.
TAYLOR: Sure.
PINSKY: .is that she couldn`t go through, she wasn`t willing to make a selection for the private screening because she didn`t want a male screwing
around with her genitalia -- no, she didn`t want a male -- what was it? She didn`t want someone her touching her breasts and she didn`t want
somebody else touching her genitalia.
TAYLOR: And that`s.
PINSKY: She would have had to have both a male and a female and they weren`t willing to give her that option.
TAYLOR: Yeh, and that`s the worst part. I mean, I have to go back to this comment where this lifestyle choice. That`s the problem that I deal with
every single day on this planet, is standing up in that cockpit and people thinking this, this is a choice.
PINSKY: Yeh.
TAYLOR: This is not a choice. And, and that`s what I do in America is educate people that this is not a choice. It is something that is genetic
and very deeply ingrained in me. Now, we`re back to the transgender issue, or the TSA issue. This is the problem. We have a transgender person
sitting in the security area. How many people do you think, after she got shamed, want to go flying with that person? Not to mention the flight crew
that`s coming in behind, seeing her get this special screening. What`s up with this person? Maybe that made the flight crew uncomfortable about her
getting on the airplane. This is a complete, complete turnover of civil rights, and this is what needs to change now.
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I agree.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I feel that she has the right to conceal her gender.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
I mean that`s her civil liberties that were violated. So that`s the way I feel about that.
PINSKY: I suppose you could.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s incorrect. At some point.
(CROSS-TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) her gender though (inaudible).
PINSKY: Wait, Anahita, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: There has to be a balance between public safety versus someone`s individual personal interest. I agree with Sam. I definitely
think that TSA could do better. But I`m sorry to say that her feelings, her little humiliation does not outweigh hundreds and thousands of people`s
potential lives being (inaudible).
PINSKY: And by the way, I`ve had, I`ve had. Let me say I`ve had the TSA screening. Have you ever had that screening where they put you in a room?
It`s intense. The, they`re slipping behind everything.
(CROSS-TALK)
MARTIN: I think you marginalize this, Anahita, when you say her little feelings.
TAYLOR: Thank you.
MARTIN: Because this is bigger than just what happened to this one woman.
PINSKY: No, but -- but hang on.
MARTIN: This happens to trans gender people all the time.
PINSKY: Wait, wait. No, this, this happens to people all the time (inaudible).
(CROSS-TALK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MARTIN: (inaudible) civil rights, and they have an absolute right to choose the gender and be identified for the gender that they choose. So
let`s use this as teachable moment, rather than to say this is a little (inaudible).
PINSKY: No, but here`s the thing.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SEDAGHATFAR: I agree with you. No one`s going to (inaudible). Hold on, let me just say I don`t disagree with you. I think that`s a very astute
observation, but let`s address this issue somewhere aside from the TSA security check point. We live in a very dangerous world right now and it
is really -- I think it`s putting a lot of people at risk to take someone`s word for what they say is (inaudible).
PINSKY: And I want to say, I, I gotta say.
SEDAGHATFAR: Can you imagine the liability, Dr. Drew, if they let her go, God forbid, and there was some type of (inaudible).
MARTIN: But you`re changing the (inaudible) point. She didn`t want to go without being checked.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: She wanted a man and a woman, right?
MARTIN: She was willing to, to (inaudible) she had a penis, and she was willing to go through the check point. She said push whatever button you
want to. That`s what she said.
TAYLOR: That`s right here`s the, here`s the worst part about this is she is literally getting shamed in front of all these passengers.
PINSKY: That`s what she was saying.
TAYLOR: No, here`s the problem. You`re telling me that there could have been a bomb, and that`s great. She was willing to do the additional
screening. She just wanted to be respected as a human being. That, that (inaudible).
SCHACHER: Thank you, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I agree with you 100 percent, I agree with you 110 percent. But I think it`s the way it was approached. The inter --
PINSKY: It is. I agree with you.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: That`s wrong.
PINSKY: Right, right. It was the lack of choice, it was the public humiliation and let`s just all agree on one thing.
SCHACHER: And let`s work on that.
PINSKY: Let`s -- yeh. I think.
CATHERWOOD: (inaudible)
PINSKY: Ubaba, I`m a leave, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: OK.
PINSKY: I got to leave it. And I`m just going to say.
SCHACHER: Not another Mike joke?
PINSKY: No, not another Mike joke, a small penis joke from Mike, no. We have to, we have to do better. But, listen, I don`t like it when they
start taking me in a back room and calling me by name, by the way. They know who I am, but they`re still are going -- yeh, they`re still going into
every crevice. And you know what, that`s my -- you know, but that`s my responsibility, my civic responsibility is to comply with all this. So,
Shadi, I will ask you, please, on behalf of everybody, thank you for complying with it. Thank you for raising these issues. Jessica, as
always, thank you as well. What`s the matter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wants to say something.
PINSKY: You want to say something, Shadi? Go ahead.
PETOSKY: Yes, I`m sorry. First of all, I totally accept you, Mike. I want you to know.
CATHERWOOD: Thank you. I appreciate it.
PETOSKY: But also a security expert went on record to say that, if the TSA has a flaw in their system that makes them not understand trans bodies, and
has to take trans people in special screenings, terrorists can exploit that by standing in line three people behind this trans person.
PINSKY: I, I.
PETOSKY: This is a (inaudible). Yeh, (inaudible) a whole community.
PINSKY: Shadi, I have to go to break. I`m so sorry, but I -- listen, I appreciate you raising this issue, I`m glad we`re having this conversation,
we do need to do better, but I really agree with Anahita that we all having to be willing to let go of some of our civil liberties and do some
uncomfortable things that we have for the community safety and the well- being of us all. And I`m willing to have somebody put a finger wherever they want to put it before I can on the airplane, and look behind whatever,
and it`s not fun. I`ll grant that. If you`re trauma survivor, by the way, speak up before you get that screening because it will be evocative. You
will not -- you`ll feel like something bad happened to you. Next marijuana and insanity. That`s right, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
911 OPERATOR: A report of a domestic violence in progress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man is behind bars, accused of shooting and killing his wife while reportedly high on pot.
911 OPERATOR: Reporting Party verses (sic) her husband, has been smoking marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sources say Richard Kirk ate medical marijuana and was hallucinating.
911 OPERATOR: A wife on an open line, screaming that a male had a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was hallucinating, scaring the kids, reasonably so, talking about the end of the world, and telling her to shoot him.
PINSKY: And when she refused, police say her husband pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger.
SCHACHER: Right after he killed his wife, he walked into his seven-year- old son`s bedroom and asked his son to kill him, so that mom and dad could be together with God.
PINSKY: Oh, boy.
SCHACHER: Ugh.
911 OPERATOR: Need an ambulance code central, party down. We`re going to need Homicide.
NANCY GRACE: When you hear a story like this where the guy is high on a legal marijuana cookie, how can you continue to insist that pot be
legalized?
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: That Colorado man is accused of murdering his wife in front of their three children. He is now suddenly pleading not guilty by reason of
insanity, blaming his murderous behavior on candy marijuana which he`d eaten a few hours before.
Back with Sam, Areva, Mike, Anahita and, joining us, Alex Datig, editor in chief of the political blog Front Page Index. Alex, pot to blame?
ALEX DATIG, EDITOR IN CHIEF "FRONT PAGE INDEX": Partially. I think edibles are really, really dangerous and I think 20 years from now an
entire generation is going to wake up and say what in the heck did I do to myself.
PINSKY: But, Areva, is that -- let`s say that`s factual. Does that mean it shouldn`t be legal?
MARTIN: Well, no, and should say, Dr. Drew, that in the state of Colorado voluntary use of marijuana or alcohol that results in a crime like this,
killing someone, that`s not a defense. So he`s not going to be able to stand up and use that defense.
SCHAHER: Why?
PINSKY: Well, hold on, you can`t say a substance made me completely psychotic. Therefore I was insane in those moments?
MARTIN: In the state of Colorado your voluntary use of that substance is not a defense. Now what he is saying, the new plea is temporary insanity.
And in the state of Colorado.
PINSKY: From the drugs.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MARTIN: Well, he`s got to show a separate mental condition, mental impairment, that caused him to not be able to appreciate right from wrong.
SCHACHER: Yeh.
MARTIN: Inability to do that, his defense goes down and he`s convicted of murder.
PINSKY: And this sudden change, Anahita, too. It seems like an insanity defense a pretty tall order. And in my estimation, what really went down
here is he was an opiate addict who stopped using opiates, then went insane in withdrawal, and the pot didn`t help any. But something like that.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SEDAGHATFAR: Still not a defense. She`s right. Voluntary intoxication is not a defense to any crime in this state, in California. It`s not a
defense. But if he can prove that he had some other type of mental illness, maybe a reaction to -- what was the drug you.?
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Opiates.
SEDAGHATFAR: Opiates, right. And that caused him in that moment to not know the difference between right from wrong, that is -- that is a not
guilty by reason of insanity. But he can`t say I ate a pot cookie and I went crazy and I could (inaudible). It`s like killing my wife.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew is completely (yes)(ph). This is somebody who had really difficult, extreme marital problems, financial problems, depression.
He also was cognizant enough to go into his room and type in a code in order to get the gun, and utilize the gun and operate the gun, and have a -
- talk to his children.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
I really think that he`s using this. Now the opiates withdrawal, fine. But a pot cookie? I`ve been high on a pot cookie too and I was comatose on
the couch, but I certainly did not want to kill anybody, OK?
MARTIN: It looks like his lawyers didn`t have a lot of choices. There weren`t a lot of choices in terms of the defense.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
And the insanity defense often times is used when you have someone that`s, you know, involved in some kind of behavior like this behavior. But it
doesn`t work.
CATHERWOOD: Weed can make you go insane. I don`t know if you`ve heard Snoop`s last album. It`s horrible. It`s horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeh, yeh, not that pot can`t make somebody with a predisposition to becoming psychotic more psychotic or psychotic, but to
reach the threshold to where you can really go out and kill someone, that really takes something that I just don`t think pot can bring you to that
level.
PINSKY: But now, I kind of agree with you.
SCHACHER: I agree.
PINSKY: But, Alex, you would say no and you`ve seen some bad reactions. And let`s remind ourselves, the concentrations in some of these edibles are
really wild now, so. And people go insane, they take a bunch of them.
CATHERWOOD: We, all of us, I not -- maybe not all of us -- but we all, most of us have experience where an edible is totally not the same as a
bong load and it make you go coo-coo. But you don`t kill people. You know what you do? You miss your flight because you`re like aah, aah, aah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s about propaganda. It`s about making pot look bad, when in fact this -- the whole reason, his whole defense isn`t even set up
around pot. That`s already not the case, he`s already not using that as a defense.
PINSKY: Hold it right there. I`m so glad he said that because it`s so interesting to me that people run to these corner where, oh, this is a good
drug and this is a bad drug. The really bad drug in his story is the opiate story. That`s the worst drug in his story, but everyone wants to
make it a pot story. Help me.
DATIG: Well, it`s kind of a reverse process of, you know, the gateway process kind of in reverse. Because he went to opiates, quit opiates, and
then went to something else. But isn`t that the nature of addiction? It go -- you go from one thing to the next.
PINSKY: Sure.
DATIG: I`m 16 years in recovery and I know this myself. But in this case I think you`re looking at a first degree murder charge and I think the
defense is insanity because they`re saying it was premeditated -- that he - - it was premeditated murder so I think the insanity defense is because of that, although I do think the pot did contribute.
PINSKY: And let me, let me list for you some of his wild behaviors before the shootings. Hallucinating and he was seeing and hearing things that
weren`t there. Scared the hell out of the kids. He was talking about the end of the world. He was telling his wife to shoot him. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I definitely don`t think that weed affects -- you know, you`re not going to kill somebody over it. But I did want to know what you
guys think about the whole situation with UFC fighter, Nick Diaz, who just got suspended for five years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Free Nick Diaz.
SCHACHER: Free Nick Diaz, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me -- and his opponent was tested positive for a performance enhancing drug. He only got suspended one year.
SCHACHER: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that could actually physically do damage to him. So, I don`t know, what do you guys think about that?
CATHERWOOD: But he has a shattered leg, so.
PINSKY: Wait, what happened?
CATHERWOOD: The guy`s been suspended. Nick Diaz is being suspended. He`s 32 years old. This is, this is essentially the end of his career. For
five years for testing positive for marijuana in a UFC fight.
PINSKY: Well, what if he had taken a pain killer or taken opiates? That would have been OK?
CATHERWOOD: Perfectly. But also he had passed two WADA tests before administering the Quest urine test, which is far less accurate.
PINSKY: But is that because Nevada`s so crazy with their.?
CATHERWOOD: Nevada`s crazy in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to the athletic world.
PINSKY: OK. I want to bring up on Skype here very quickly --stay right there, don`t move -- Charlo Greene, she`s a marijuana advocate, founders of
Go Greene. She became famous. Hi, Charlo, I`m going to show everybody what you had done on live television. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
CHARLO GREENE: And as for this job, well, not that I have a choice, but (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it, I quit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. We apologize for that. We, we`ll be right back. Mean -- pardon for us.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: That was, that was Charlo`s swan song. Well done. And since then you`ve become a full time pot advocate. How are things going up in Alaska,
right? Is that where you are?
CHARLO GREENE: Yeh, I`m up here in Anchorage, Alaska, running Alaska`s only safe access point. Things are going smoothly. We are launching my
non-profit organization, Go Greene, that`s Greene with an E at the end of it, this Sunday. You`re more than welcome to swing by the launch party.
PINSKY: And, Charlo, give us you take -- I`ve only got about 30 seconds. I`ll keep you on there after we get back, but what is your take on this
story?
GREENE: I think that it`s really unfortunate that the usual scapegoat in these sort of situations is being cast again. Marijuana must have made me
do it `cause what else would have driven me to it? But I think what we really get to see now is the justification behind that sort of defense.
How can you prove that marijuana does any harm? This is what us advocates have been pleading for the government to do. Anyone really. Why are we
being penalized for a substance like this when no one can prove that it`s harmful?
PINSKY: Well, Charlo, stay right there and everyone stay there and I`m going to keep this going. The conversation continues. But let me just say
the idea that there are good drugs and bad drugs is a flawed idea. Alcohol, is that a good drug, everybody? Guess what? It`s the only
commonly used drug that`s a carcinogen to almost every cell in your body, and the withdrawal from alcohol commonly fatal. Is that a good drug?
SCHACKER: No.
PINSKY: I don`t know. Oxycontin, good drug? My opiate addict patients die of that every day. But if you had pancreatic cancer, it`s a good drug.
It`s going to prevent suffering. So stop with the good drugs and bad drugs. Let`s just get that, get over that. It`s a very unsophisticated
idea. And later, there was a pizza rat that Sam was in love with.
SCHACHER: I love him.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Tonight it is milkshake squirrel.
SCHACHER: Yay.
PINSKY: Sam, it`s just for you.
SCHACHER: He`s OK.
PINSKY: He`s OK. We`ll be back with more after this.
SCHACHER: Yay.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
NANCY GRACE: The only thing found in this man`s blood was pot-related.
PINSKY: There were empty pill bottles found in his room.
NANCY GRACE:
PINSKY: And the fact is he may have -- there`s a common thing right now is that people are being dismissed from their medical care because they get
carried away with their opiates, the benzodiazepine, they go into withdrawal. And in fact they use pot to try to deal with the withdrawal
from the op -- from the prescription meds. OK.
GRACE: In this case there`s.
PINSKY: Maybe it is.
GRACE: .nothing to suggest that the pill bottles had anything to do with this.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Just because they didn`t find the drug of opiate in his system, the reason the opiates weren`t in his system is because he was in
withdrawal from opiates. Richard Kirk killed his wife after -- they`re blaming it now on eating pot candy. He has pleaded not guilty to murder,
citing the insanity defense, suggesting the pot may have been the reason that he shot his wife. Back with Sam, Areva, Mike, Anahita, Charlo, and
Alex. And, Alex, out to you real quick.
DATIG: Thanks. You know, I really think that pot is a dangerous drug, and I think we don`t know enough about it. But what we do know from Colorado
right now is that edibles are very dangerous. And I think the people we need to ask are the spouses of people who are addicted to these edibles and
to pot. Because what they`re going through every day, they`re dealing with psychosis, they`re dealing with psychotic behavior, dangerous behavior...
PINSKY: Let me, let me, let me.
DATIG: People are a danger to themselves. And we need to, we need to really validate that part of it and we`re not.
PINSKY: Well, you.
CATHERWOOD: Listen, every -- for 185 years almost every single egregious act of over aggressive or violent behavior in this country was fueled by
alcohol. And I don`t know why we are sitting here trying to have the argument of whether or not (inaudible).
PINSKY: (inaudible) drugs.
CATHERWOOD: And, listen, I`m, I`m not going to sit here and pretend like I`m some evangelist for weed either, but at the same time I think it`s,
it`s downright insulting to everyone`s intelligence to sit and make the point that we should, we should demonize marijuana and be concerned about
it could potentially do to a generation when, you know, a drug has been decimating our country for two hundred years.
SEDAGHATFAR: Why can`t you demonize both? That`s a non-starter for me actually, Dr. Drew. That`s a total non-starter for me. Why can`t you
demonize both? Just because you say alcohol is bad, you can`t say that pot is bad?
CATHERWOOD: No, I -- you`re right. But she`s saying, you know, you need to talk to the spouses of these people who are dealing with psychosis. How
about the tens of millions of spouses who are dealing with a black eye because dad came home when he had tied one on?
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s a non-starter.
PINSKY: What you`re saying is -- what you`re saying is, first of all you want to take me to task, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: I want to take -- exactly because...
PINSKY: OK, but you`re -- let me just say what you`re saying first.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
PINSKY: .which is that why have another problem?
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly. Why add another bad drug?
PINSKY: OK, so what do you take me to task about?
SEDAGHATFAR: OK so you and I have disagreed a lot as to whether or not pot should be legalized.
PINSKY: I have said it`s up to the people.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly, it`s up to the people.
PINSKY: There are medical problems I`m very, very concerned about but ultimately it`s up to the people.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. But we did agree we should wait and see what happens in certain states that legalize pot, like Colorado.
PINSKY: Yes, OK.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, so far it`s not looking very good, Dr. Drew. I mean, we`ve see, we`ve seen different instances as well. It`s the truth. And I
think whether or not the people still want it to be legal, that`s up to them. I agree with you. But regulators really need to take this into
consideration and figure out what they`re going to do, especially with these edibles.
PINSKY: OK, let`s wait. Audience, audience. This woman`s been waiting quietly for a long time. Yes, go right ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I think he`s just using it as a scapegoat and this is what he wanted to do. And when he took the little weed candy it
just gave him the courage and the excuse to do what he wanted to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Right. And so what she`s getting into is the facts of the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was subconscious already.
PINSKY: . which is this, this guy was a murderer and (inaudible).
MARTIN: Yeh, and I think he could have all the problems that you identified that come with drug use, whether it`s opiates or whether it`s
marijuana, but that doesn`t give him a pass for killing his wife.
PINSKY: Right.
MARTIN: We ought to stay focused on that this guy killed his wife in what appears to be cold-blooded murder.
PINSKY: And, and that`s the point you`ve always made. No matter how loaded you ever got, it didn`t make you immoral.
CATHERWOOD: Certainly drugs and alcohol have made me make decisions that I would normally make.
PINSKY: Right.
CATHERWOOD: .but never has it made me act outside myself to the point that I would go and kill someone.
PINSKY: Charlo, I want to go out to her real quick. Charlo, comment?
GREENE: Well I am here speaking as the weed evangelist, and I can say that -- I can, absolutely, I can say that cannabis has done nothing but add
positivity to my life and the lives of thousands of other people that I have met. It`s unfortunate that cannabis users are being tasked in this
way. But cannabis, the substance, is being pulled into this, this murder case.
PINSKY: Yeh, OK.
GREENE: .when we all know that it had nothing to do with it.
PINSKY: Sam.
SCHACHER: Quick comment to the attorneys. When you see an attorney or a defendant change their plea from first saying, oh, it was the weed, and now
it`s insanity, what does the judge think? `Cause it seems like the defense is grasping at straws at that point.
MARTIN: It happens all the time. And any good lawyer has got to find the best defense possible for their client. And in this case, it`s not looking
good for this guy. So come up with an insanity defense or whatever because your job is to get him off.
PINSKY: Alex, I`ll give you 15 seconds to give me a last thought.
DATIG: Well, I think drugs are bad for you and I think one of the biggest problems we have in this country right now is the intervention process.
Because if we`re going to treat addiction like a health problem and not a criminal justice problem.
PINSKY: Moral problem.
DATIG: .then we need to work on the intervention process. And we`re not doing that.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Couldn`t agree more. Next up, pizza rat is being knocked off Twitter. Yes, yes, yes, knocked off pizza rat. By milkshake squirrel.
Sam`s going to talk about milkshake or going to show some love for milkshake squirrel, I`m sure. Back after this.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time for Click Fix where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds. And Sam`s first.
SCHACHER: OK, we have yet another viral video of an airline passenger freak out. This one involves Azealia Banks.
PINSKY: Should get Jessica back in here.
SCHACHER: She`s a 24-year-old rapper. She not only dropped the F bomb, but also used a homophobic slur on a male flight attendant.
PINSKY: What, what happened? I haven`t seen this.
SCHACHER: Well, I`m going to show you a video, but then I`m going to explain to you what happened before the video. So watch the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
AZEALIA BANKS: Give me my bag.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: No.
BANKS: Give me my bag. (bleep) Give me my (bleep). Give me my bag.
PILOT: Ma`am, what`s the problem?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Ma`am, ma`am I`m sorry.
BANKS: I was coming through, he goes "wait." Puts his hand in my face, grabs my bag, and he`s like. I`m like, come on, you see me trying to get
off the plane. And he pushes me back to let HER through! When I`m trying to get off the plane!
PILOT: I understand.
BANKS: I`m trying to go home.
PILOT: Everybody wants to go home.
BANKS: Give me my bag. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SCHACHER: OK, so what happened here, according to a number of eye witnesses is she was like in row six. As soon as the plane landed she ran
to the front so she could get out first. But then there was already people in front of her trying to remove their luggage from up above, and that`s
when an altercation took place because when she allegedly spit in the passenger`s face, started yelling, that`s when the, the male flight
attendant came over and she called him a homophobic slur. This was all in first class and she seems like a real first class bitch. Sorry.
PINSKY: All right (inaudible). Areva, what do you got?
MARTIN: Wow, OK, Sam. More girls fighting, so maybe more bitches, I don`t know.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
But I have a viral video of a brawl at a Texas high school football game. But it wasn`t the boys who were fighting. As I said, this was girls who
were fighting.
PINSKY: Uh-oh, what happened?
MARTIN: Take a look. After some of these high school games there`s this unsanctioned impromptu dance off between the drill teams.
PINSKY: Uh-oh.
MARTIN: Now in this incident you`ll see a dancer from one drill team goes over and mock performs in front of a girl from the opposing team.
PINSKY: Uh-oh.
MARTIN: So the girl returns and the drill team member turns her back. So she threw some shade and the impromptu dancer hits her in the back of the
head. You see her hit her.
PINSKY: Here we go, it`s on.
MARTIN: And that`s when the chaos began. All hell breaks out. Fortunately, no injuries, no arrests, but guess what? Neither team will be
performing again.
PINSKY: Aaw.
MARTIN: So they blew it, they blew it. Can`t fight like that.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: But if the, if the bench is emptied at a full ball game, those teams would have been allowed to keep playing. I mean, why do you, why the
drill team getting.?
MARTIN: Well, I would hope if that was a high school football team, those guys wouldn`t be playing either. But definitely those girls don`t need to
be performing if they`re going to act like that.
SCHACHER: I agree.
PINSKY: All right, let`s get to the squirrel.
SCHACHER: Yay.
CATHERWOOD: All right. This video is thanks to Mashabe.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
Pizza rat`s reign is officially over. And it`s all thanks to milkshake squirrel.
SCHACHER: Yay.
CATHERWOOD: That`s right, milkshake squirrel. Milkshake squirrel went to get some fresh dairy, all thanks to Shake Shack which is across the street
from that trash can, and he just needed a milkshake. That`s the bottom line.
PINSKY: Look at that thing. That Shake Shack is packed all the time. I bet the squirrel knows exactly what he`s doing.
CATHERWOOD: Ooooh!!
(END VIDEO TAPE)
The, the, the person, the person responsible for making that milkshake was quoted as saying "My milkshake brings all the squirrels to the yard."
SCHACHER: Oh, my God, how long did it take you (inaudible).
PINSKY: We are back with my Click Fix after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Now right now of course we all remember those terrible deaths of the Virginia news reporter and her cameraman who were shot live on TV. It
was just an unspeakable disaster. Well, earlier today a reporter for a CNN affiliate, WTVR in Richmond, Virginia, was at the scene of a triple murder
investigation when this happened. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
REPORTER JAKE: .not identified that suspect yet either.
SECOND REPORTER: Yeh, still a lot of questions to be answered here, Jake. But.
(tires squealing)
Jake, are you OK?
REPORTER JAKE: Yeh, I`m fine, guys. There was just somebody that was peeling out here right in front of the house and I wanted to get out of the
way.
SECOND REPORTER: Do you have any idea if that was related to what`s going on? Everybody good?
REPORTER JAKE: Not sure if they`ve stopped yet. Everybody`s fine. They stopped right in front of the house over there and I wanted to just make
sure everything was safe and good to go. So, I, I`m fine.
PINSKY: I don`t know about you guys, but I do not blame Jake. I do not blame him one bit.
SCHACHER: Better safe than sorry. I know.
PINSKY: Afterwards he wrote on his Facebook page that he believes the driver saw the crew`s truck and the lights and he wanted to quote make a
scene. He added, I`m fine and staying vigilant. As well he should. Thank you, Jake, for entertaining us today, and for looking out for your crew and
yourself.
Reminder we`re on Snapchat. Join us there, drdrewhln. (inaudible) DVR us so you can watch us any time. Thanks, audience. Thanks, panel. We`ll see
you next time.
END
