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Dr. Drew
Nine Killed in Oregon, Killer Mentally Ill and Obsessed with Firearms; A Chilling Firsthand Account of the Shooting at the Oregon Community College; Donald Trump`s Controversial Remarks about Mental Illness and Guns; Epic Flooding Causing Deaths and Misery in South Carolina
Aired October 05, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:11] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, nine people executed in Oregon. The killer obsessed with firearms. His family says he was, in
fact, mentally ill and had sought treatment. What went wrong? How did he get 13 guns? Why did he need so many guns?
It all starts right now at the "Top of the Feed." A chilling firsthand account of what it was like when a gunman opened fire at an Oregon
Community College. Tracy Heu says she played dead, ignoring the shooter`s command to stand up to be killed. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRACY HEU, UMPQUA COMMUNITY COLLEGE SHOOTING SURVIVOR: He just came in and shot -- towards the back of the wall and told everybody to get in the
center of the room on the ground.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, did he hit anyone? Did he hit anyone when he first shot that first shot?
HEU: No. He just got everybody is attention. He had guns with him and he was armed. He had a bulletproof vest on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Was he targeting Christians and Catholics?
HEU: I do not know he was really targeting them. I think he just -- I honestly do not think he was targeting anybody. He just wanted to do it
for fun -- Because he still shot every single one that he asked. He seemed happy about it. He did not seem stressed. He did not seem nervous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: She knew that he would have no mercy, not on anyone. She said she lived because the person next to her was shot in the head and the blood
ended up covering her body. He thought she was dead and she played dead, so that she could live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell." Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com;
Mike Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC radio at 790 A.M. here at Los Angeles co-host.
Jena Kravitz, Clinical Neuropsychologist, and Kurt Schlichter, attorney, retired army coronel and conservative commentator. I also have John
Cardillo, former NYPD Officer, host of "John Cardillo Show" on 1290 WJNO. That is a mouthful.
Now, Loni, there is a profile developing here. Right here, I have got the Fbi threat assessment document for school shooters. You can profile a guy
like this, right?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR OF "YOU`RE PERFECT AND OTHER LIES PARENTS TELL": Yes.
PINSKY: They are narcissistic.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: They lack empathy. They have low frustration tolerance. They -- you know, their attitude is superiority. Excessive need for attention. I
mean you can just tell, who these guys are, why cannot we do anything about this?
COOMBS: Well, because there is a lot of people that fit that profile who do not end up doing this. And, so how do you know which ones are going to
do it? And, is it really come down to, we have to know which ones have access to guns because there might be a lot of potential shooters out
there. But, if they do not have access to guns they never actually end up becoming a mass shooter.
PINSKY: Do we know anything about the mental health services this kid got? Does anybody -- Jena, do we know anything about that? Does that come clean
have come out yet?
JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: There was nothing available online.
PINSKY: Yes. I have not seen anything about that yet. My question is why could not somebody have done something? You know, this is what kills me is
that You are assessing this kid and your instinct goes on, "Man, this kid is bad. Something could happen."
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: You cannot do anything about that.
KRAVITZ: That is right, Dr. Drew. We have very stringent laws especially here in California about reporting and breaking confidentiality in terms of
the clinical relationship.
And, so, in California, there has to be a reasonable suspicion that someone is going to do harm to themselves or somebody else. But, there also has to
be an identifiable victim. There has to be a plan and means to execute --
PINSKY: Well, but then that is now a -- now, we are in a whole different thing, right? But, Kurt, let me -- Here is the document. The firearm
transaction record, right, if you are going to buy a firearm.
KURT SCHLICHTER, ATTORNEY, RETIRED ARMY CORONEL AND CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: The rose
PINSKY: What is it called?
SCHLICHTER: The Rose (ph). I did one this weekend.
PINSKY: OK. Now, my -- I am not -- I do not have a horse in the race. But, I do not understand why people that are interested in protecting the
right to firearms are not interested in restricting access to people that you do not want to have access to it.
SCHLICHTER: Look in retrospect, I certainly do not want this creep to have access to firearms. But the fact is, owning firearms for the defense of
your family or community or constitution is a right.
PINSKY: Sure.
SCHLICHTER: How do we balance that against the fact that some people are just bad people? Some people are sick people --
PINSKY: But, that is the question I am asking.
SCHLICHTER: -- Without taking it away from the law-abiding people?
PINSKY: Well, let me -- go ahead, Loni.
COOMBS: There is going to be bad people, sick people out there all the time. The question is, do they have access to guns or not? And, for the
people who love their guns, the question is, at what cost are you going to continue to have these mass shootings? --
PINSKY: For the rest of us.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: What cost for the rest of us to protect that person`s constitutional rights.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: Let me go to John. John, let me read to you what you have to fill out on this form that determines whether or not, you are appropriate to be
buying firearms. Have you ever been adjudicated, mentally defective? Meaning, you have been in court and someone said you are mentally ill.
Or, let us see, have you been -- termination by a board commission or other lawful authority, you were a danger to yourself, and/or incompetent to
manage -- so you are under conservatorship. That is nobody. Or have you been committed to a mental institution? Yes or no. That seems like --
[21:05:02] VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: That is it?
PINSKY: First of all, the answer is no. I mean, right? If you ever try to buy a gun. And, I assume they check with the Justice Department. But,
John, I will let you answer. Even if they find from the Justice Department that someone has been -- well, they would not find, because this only
really counts for people that are on a conservatorship or who have recently been held against their will in a hospital.
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Well, yes. But, you know, here is the problem, right? This is not a Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report," we
cannot predict crime. So, we cannot punish hundreds of millions of Americans. Now, look, this is a tragic incident, heartbreaking, but it is
one incident.
BARNETT: No, it is not.
CARDILLO: And, there are 100 million legal gun owners.
BARNETT: It is not just one.
CARDILLO: OK. You know, cut me off all you want. It does not change the facts. Mass shootings are still statistically rare. Chicago had 325
people shot in the month of September. Nobody talks about that. Many in Barack Obama`s former district, but he is preaching about taking guns from
law-abiding Americans.
We are always going to have crime in the United States. This army, law- abiding people and preventing them from protecting themselves against the lunatics and the criminals is not the answer.
PINSKY: There is a girl -- go ahead, Vanessa, you answer.
BARNETT: First of all, there is not just this one instance. I do not care how many facts he likes to bring up. There have been several instances.
And, I do not care how rare they are.
They are when a person goes into a school and shoots college students or shoots elementary students or shoots a movie theater up, how many times
does it have to happen for us to say, "OK, even though it is rare and it does not happen every day, we still need to do something." We cannot just
sit around and say, "Oh, it only happens once in a while. That is not fair either."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Mike.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST": Well, I mean from a purely sympathetic standpoint, Vanessa is right. I mean guns
are created for violent needs. I mean that is what they are made for. But, at the same time, I mean, people drown -- children drown in swimming
pools in Southern California on the daily. And, we are not going to sit here and regulate how many swimming pools are built, you know?
BARNETT: But, we do try to regulate that there are some people at these pools to help prevent those things from happening.
CATHERWOOD: Sure. Yes.
BARNETT: So, let us try to regulate these laws to try to get these guns out of crazy people`s hands.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right --
BARNETT: Sorry, I used the word, "Crazy."
PINSKY: Kurt, go ahead.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHLICHTER: Well, you know we do have those laws to keep guns out of crazy people`s hands. That is one of the things --
BARNETT: That is a piece of paper --
SCHLICHTER: It is the federal crime complying on that sheet, you go to jail if the Obama Administration would prosecute people. But, let me ask a
question, Dr. Drew. Let me ask a question here about banning guns. Anybody here ever buy pot before those little green crop places opened up?
PINSKY: Here is it, everybody.
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: Wait, I thought marijuana was illegal. I am stunned, anybody ever do coke? Anybody ever see coke out there? You have the only non-
stoners in all of Hollywood in here tonight.
PINSKY: But, you are making the case that because there is illegal activity, there should not be any restrictions on legals --
SCHLICHTER: No, I am not making that case. The case I am making is, first of all, outlawing guns will simply deprive law-abiding citizens --
PINSKY: No. Wait. No one has said outlawing guns.
SCHLICHTER: You said --
PINSKY: No. I have said, why do not the people who want to protect that privilege, why are not they interested in letting people like me and Jena
use our clinical judgment to better --
SCHLICHTER: Oh!
PINSKY: Like for three months or six months or restrict access because we know they are going to be trouble. Jena.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
KRAVITZ: I have said this before. I do psych evals for people who are applying for gastric bypass surgery or kidney transplant. They have to go
through a routine psyche eval. Why are not there regulatory procedures to screen for this?
PINSKY: It is not even a regulatory -- just easy procedures --
KRAVITZ: Just so we can --
PINSKY: How about Jena has a feeling --
KRAVITZ: That is the question.
PINSKY: -- this person should not have a gun for three months.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: As if we knew that three months get him stabilized --
COOMBS: They will never go for that, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Why not encourage -- why not?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLICHTER: First of all, I do not believe that my constitutional rights depend on a couple of trains like colleges saying it is, "OK." I mean
hell, we have to do that for the first amendment. Anybody ever been on Twitter? Any psycho know what is going on there?
PINSKY: You, I do not disagree with that, because I mean part of the problem with this particular case is that people on social media encouraged
this guy along. Let us get an audience perspective. Yes, sir. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is a 100 percent mentally-ill issue. I believe his parents had the guns and he got them.
PINSKY: The mom bought them for him, as I understand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, the guns fell through the cracks and he was able to get them.
PINSKY: Well, no, he could buy them legally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He could, but he did not.
PINSKY: I believe he did. Let us find it if I have my facts correct. Yes, he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He is 20 years old. He could not buy a pistol. So, he got it from somebody else. Somebody else was a straw
purchaser, committing a felony. It is already illegal, Dr. Drew.
CATHERWOOD: And, to echo Kurt`s sentiment, and I am sure Mr. Cardillo would agree with me. And, again, I am not saying this by any means as like
a feather in my cap. -- but during my time, you know, of drug use, I was around a lot of criminals. A lot of them used guns for violent crimes.
A lot of them killed people. Not one of them had a legally owned gun. Not one of them. And, I do not want to extrapolate a small control group of,
you know, guys I used to hang out with, to mean all criminals in America. But I am assuming that it is what goes on --
(CROSSTALK)
[21:10:00] BARNETT: But, they are criminals.
PINSKY: It is what Kurt was saying. I mean he brings up an important point, which is, you know, there is so many guns in our society already.
Do we want to disarm the good guys?
COOMBS: Well, let us be honest. Laws cannot stop a shooter from going and shooting. They can get the gun from somewhere else if they are mentally
ill or do not qualify. There is always access to guns regardless of what the laws say.
PINSKY: But, this case, Jena and I have been working mental health. How many years?
KRAVITZ: Ten.
PINSKY: Me, I did 20 years in psychiatric hospital as a professional. And, I can tell you, it is pretty easy to use your instinct on who should
be having guns and who should not. And, all of these could have been easily avoided. The family is part of the problem. Part of -- And, I do
not want to create more victims by blaming the family.
But, family is -- This FBI profiling -- throughout assessment profile has very specific sort of manifestations of a family that is likely to be at
risk, too. And, somebody else needs to be able to step in other than family members to help them.
Think of the Sandy Hook guy -- the Sandy Hook shooter, that mom in complete total denial. Did you think she is happy about that now? She is dead.
Conversation will keep going on.
Later on, Donald Trump`s controversial remarks about mental illness and guns. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:16] UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Calls for the Sheriff in that town of Roseburg, Oregon in Douglas County to resign, because of a crackpot
video he posted on his Facebook page two years ago, suggesting that the Sandy Hook shooting that left 20 first graders dead was a conspiracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: On his Facebook page in 2013, he apparently posted a link to this video produce by conspiracy theorists. The viral
video calls the victims, "Actors," ludicrously claiming that Sandy Hook is a hoax, cooked by the government to take guns. The sheriff denied to CNN
that he posted the video.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Did you post that pot?
JOHN HANLIN, DOUGLAS COUNTY SHERIFF: No. No. I know what you are referring to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Yes.
HANLIN: But, I said no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: I am trying to clear that.
HANLIN: That is not a conspiracy theory belief that I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK. He does have or he does not have it. But, some are demanding that the sheriff step down. Back here with Loni, Vanessa, Mike, Kurt and
John. John, I do not know if you saw these rumors. Do you feel this guy could be trusted with the investigation? Is this some sort of random rumor
that is going around social media or should we be concerned about this guy?
CARDILLO: No. He seems like -- He is a duly elected, constitutionally elected official. He has handled the investigation professionally
throughout, what my law enforcement sources have told me. And, look, anyone can share anything to your Facebook page. It does not mean you post
it yourself. You do not have control to that --
COOMBS: How about the two letters that he wrote to Vice President Biden saying, "If you guys try to put any gun laws in places, it is not going to
happen. I am not going to enforce these laws in my jurisdiction."
I mean he has had these opinions, very strong opinions and he has been sharing them for quite a while now. And, has still been in his elected
position. So, apparently, his constituents like it.
PINSKY: Kurt?
SCHLICHTER: Well, wait a minute. Somebody in America has a political opinion? Oh, no. I now know why I went to war twice to defend. Now,
look, with the people of Roseburg, Oregon do not like their sheriff, they cannot elect him next year. What do we care what some obscure public
official in Oregan thinks?
COOMBS: But, that is why I am saying he has been putting those opinions out there for years now. Nobody is trying to take him out of positions, so
why is he denying now that he put out that thing about Sandy Hook?
SCHLICHTER: Well, maybe he did not put it up.
PINSKY: He may not have put that particular thing up. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I wanted to point out that responsible gun owner should not be afraid of stricter gun laws, if they
truly believe they are responsible.
COOMBS: Right. Right.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If you do not have a health issue, nobody is going to take your gun away. Sao, why do you worry about that?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That is what I do not understand, Kurt. What if you had a brain tumor that was making you behave strangely and you wanted to shoot people
from a clock tower? That happened, right?
SCHLICHTER: It did.
PINSKY: We did not see that going, this guy should not have a gun. But, if he did not say, "I am going to do it, I have a plan to do it or I want
to kill myself," we cannot do anything.
SCHLICHTER: Well, but before I get to the point, Charles Whitman, the guy who climbed the clock tower and started firing, how was his fire
suppressed? Why a bunch of Texans went to their trucks, got their own rifles and began to fire.
But, let us move on. Here is the real point. We have plenty to be afraid of, because the gun control advocates are, by and large, liars. They do
not want to reasonably limit our access to guns. They want to ban guns. They want to confiscate guns.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: They want to be safer.
PINSKY: Yes. Do you want to ban guns? No, you do not want to ban guns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not need guns in my life.
PINSKY: But you do not have an ax to grind. You do not have a horse in the race. You do not want to ban guns. OK, sort of want to make sure.
But, she just wants to make more -- you should want that.
SCHLICHTER: No, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If you want to have guns, sure, go ahead. But, we need to make sure that mentally-ill people do not have
access to them. And, somehow all other countries manage to do that. Only the United States has a hard time making this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Mike, I will let you speak.
CATHERWOOD: I mean, you are right, a lot of other countries do a lot of things better than we do, but they do not have Americans there. And, that
may sound like an abrasive joke, but the truth is that, you know, when you take certain countries with certain populations and the way of life, it
just does not add up. And --
PINSKY: Listen.
CATHERWOOD: -- We are wacky cowboys out here. And, that is an unfortunate reality that we have to legislate for.
PINSKY: I want to make sure that there are people -- there is all this controversy about talking about these shootings even, right. And, we
should not mention their names. You and I have talked about this on the radio. I think it is primitive not to talk about these things. You learn
from history.
We got to talk about these things. So, let us, actually, break down a little bit. We talked earlier about the profiled -- the individual that
does the shooting. I want to talk a little bit about the family that -- in which this kind of thing can emerge. Turbulent child/patient
relationships, acceptance of pathological behavior, everybody.
If you have somebody in your family, who is behaving in a manner that is problematic, do not -- that is -- you are helping them by calling the
police, calling mental health professional -- whatever it might be. You do not tolerate that, and not able to set limits and then access to weapons.
COOMBS: That is a big one, Dr. Drew.
[21:20:00] PINSKY: Of course.
COOMBS: Why would anyone in their family have the guns in their home, if they know one of their children has these issues?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Because the student in this case, rules the roost in the home, parents walk on egg shells and there is no limits or monitoring of the
internet and violent game users or other interesting --
CATHERWOOD: Honestly, I think why things have increased, not only with our attention, our focus on mass shootings. I think that the real problem is -
- go back to the beginning about the actual suspects, the profiling. Give a little bit of the criteria.
PINSKY: They are narcissistic, lack empathy, entitlement --
CATHERWOOD: Sense of entitlement. Lack of empathy --
PINSKY: Priority.
CATHERWOOD: -- does not that describe every American kid under 25, nowadays? I am serious.
PINSKY: Those are my kids.
CATHERWOOD: I mean with the inability to relate to --
PINSKY: And, Loni`s too.
CATHERWOOD: -- because you live in a digital age. You grew up in a school system that rewards everyone, that does not want to tell people they are
not good at stuff. I mean you are growing this mass of people who have a real detachment from other people`s feelings and do not understand why
things do not work out for them.
PINSKY: Correct empathy is a big problem, but inappropriate humor, lack of trust, closed social --
BARNETT: That is me. Me.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Inappropriate humor? Mike.
CATHERWOOD: Inappropriate humor.
BARNETT: It is really hard just go by that --
PINSKY: Fascination with violence.
BARNETT: It is really hard picking out the people that are going to be a problem. So, I understand that -- to me, that is just for show. Honestly,
it is just --
SCHLICHTER: It is not just for show. You know, I am saying --
BARNETT: They created it in there like "Hey, here we have those bullies and we are trying to do something," but they cannot enforce anything in
there. Like you said, if you think there is a problem, you still cannot do anything.
PINSKY: Let me hear from the gunman`s father --
BARNETT: It is just a show.
PINSKY: -- who says he did not live with the child. He says he had no idea the son had compiled an arsenal of weapons. I guess they came from
mom. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IAN MERCER, UCC GUNMAN`S FATHER: I want to ask, could he compile 13 guns? How can that happen, you know? You talk about gun laws. You talk about
gun control. Every time something like this happens, they talk about it and nothing is done. I am not trying to say that they are to blame for
what happened but if Chris had not been able to get a hold of 13 guns, it would not have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Did you know he had 13 guns?
MERCER: I had no idea he had any guns. I had no idea that he had any guns whatsoever. It has to change. It has to change. How can it not? Even
people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take people`s lives? That is what guns are, killers. As simple as
that. It is as simple as that. It is black and white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just wanted to make the point because I understand that in this instance the shooter was mentally ill,
but I feel like mentally ill people are kind of being thrown under the bus.
PINSKY: Please, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The vast majority of mentally-ill people are not violent. They are, actually, more likely to be victims of
violence.
PINSKY: 100 percent true. 100 percent true. However -- however, we have to -- we cannot not have this conversation because of that fact. You are
absolutely correct -- right. And, I thank you for reminding me. I forget to say it every time we have this conversation, because we are so exercised
about the topic.
But, the fact is that somebody with mental illness very unlikely to be violent, more likely to be a victim of violence than actually perpetrate
violence. But, there are certain characteristics that we can look at and can say are somebody is at risk. And, somebody like Jena or myself can
assess that person and we can help them.
We can prevent them from doing something that is -- these people are dead, most of the ones we are talking about. They ended up killing themselves or
being killed in the process. This is not OK for the individuals that end up perpetrating these acts. We can call them evil, call them whatever you
want.
The fact is they have a condition that can be altered. A trajectory that can be altered. If the family stands up, caretakers are empowered, the
school is empowered, we can protect the community.
But, we have this thing where being reasonably restrictive of someone`s access to their personal privileges, their constitutional privileges put
the rest of us at risk, we got to think about this. Keep this going. We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:28:02] MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What new gun law can we pass that would have prevented this shooting, Sandy Hook, or Aurora
or Charleston? Just tell me what gun law that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There is a gun for roughly every man, woman, and child in America. So, how can you,
with a straight face, make the argument that more guns will make us safer?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Criminals do not follow gun laws, only law-abiding people follow gun laws. And, there is just no evidence
that these gun laws would prevent these shootings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are talking about the shooting in Oregon Community College left nine dead. Back with Loni,. Vanessa, Mike, Jena, Kurt and John. Kurt, I
can easily say a gun law is a very simple gun law that would put -- that would have put a stop to all of these, if the people that were evaluating
these shooters with -- that had mental illness, I will guarantee you they could have stopped the whole thing.
SCHLICHTER: So, you were saying we need some sort of federal database full of mental health information about every American? No, thanks.
PINSKY: Well, OK.
SCHLICHTER: Think of IRS.
PINSKY: So, what should we do, Kurt? What should we do with all the opiate abuse, just forget it or should we have a database, where we put the
information out to the pharmacies? Can we manage that? Can we manage the computer that a database with information about prescribers? We can manage
that with gun buyers, too.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHLICHTER: I am sure you can. I am not worried about you not being able to technically doing it. I am worried about you being able to do it. The
government has no right to control and to assemble mental health data on every single American. Maybe you trust the government that much. I do
not. It is none of the government`s damn business.
PINSKY: Yes, we are not really talking about mental health data. We are talking about --
SCHLICHTER: No. You are talking exactly about mental health data.
PINSKY: Clinicians desire to restrict somebody from harming themselves or another, based on our judgment rather than a set of criteria that is in
place but is very restrictive. No?
KRAVITZ: And, right off the bat, Dr. Drew, when we get new patient, the first thing we have to do is to offer an informed consent, which basically
says if you tell me you are going to hurt yourself or anybody else, I cannot break that.
[21:30:05] PINSKY: Yes. But, Jena, if you just think to yourself, you know, I have a bad feeling about this one.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: He have not said the things I need for him to say in order to put him somewhere safe --
KRAVITZ: My hands are tied.
PINSKY: Your hands are tied.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
COOMBS: And, what I hear, Kurt, you saying is essentially -- it is kind of like those car companies who decide, you know, "Yes, we know that this
little defect is going to kill so many people but ten deaths is worth it, because we are going to make this much money."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHLICHTER: Hold on. Hold on.
COOMBS: And, essentially what you are saying is do not -- it is always going to be people out there who are going to be dangerous or who are going
to be mentally ill. We are not going to try to do anything to stop them because I do not want anyone to have any list that might take my gun away
from me in any way.
SCHLICHTER: OK. Stop right there. You do not get the moral high ground here, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: I am not talking about moral high ground. I am talking about the safety of our society --
PINSKY: Wait, wait. One at a time. One at a time.
SCHLICHTER: I served during the riots. I served in war two tours and I served in the San Diego fires. So, let us understand, I am not going to
allow you to portray me or other freedom-loving Americans as numb to the deaths of other Americans. So, you do not get to do that.
COOMBS: I am not saying that. I am saying do not you care now, as other human beings, do not you want them to be safe? Do not you want to think
that maybe kids could have a safer time in school, that we could go to movie theaters and not worry about --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHLICHTER: You are doing it again. You are doing it again.
COOMBS: -- to say, "You know what? There is nothing we can do about it. It is the new norm. Let us all live with these shootings."
SCHLICHTER: Americans are more safe with law-abiding citizens armed and being able to use weapons in their own defense.
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: Look at the shootings going on right now.
SCHLICHTER: A gun being displayed and driving off an armed robber or a rapist that is not reported -- Look, liberals want women to urinate
themselves to stop rapists.
COOMBS: Forget the labels. Forget the labels.
SCHLICHTER: I say give women the choice to arm themselves. Let the rapists urinate themselves.
COOMBS: Forget the labels. Every one of these shooters would not have shot somebody if they did not have a gun in their hand.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHLICHTER: Yes, maybe if his father -- maybe if this guy`s father was not absent without leave and doing the job a parent does and taking care of his
kids, maybe that kid --
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. We cannot --
SCHLICHTER: No. I am not going to give up my rights because this father of the year --
COOMBS: It is all about your rights. It is all about your rights.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on.
SCHLICHTER: -- Possible thing for his family.
PINSKY: Audience. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I think that one of the main issues with the American society is accountability. I remember when I was
being raised, you know, that we pretty much lived more off it takes a village to raise a child. And, you know, if my parents were not getting on
me, I had somebody else`s parents would be getting on me. And, I would be getting in trouble all the way from one block, you know, to the next block.
--
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: What you say? Consistency. You raised consistency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean -- and just being accountable for each other.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because we have to live on this planet together. So, if so-and-so is down there -- if Tony seemed a little, you
know, not too strung together and my father noticed that --
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You know, my father would say, "Hey, Tony does not seem that much strung together," you know? And, the whole
neighborhood could help Tony out.
PINSKY: Well, no, they cannot. They can help get him the care. That is the mistake people make is they feel they can fix somebody that has real
illness. Vanessa, you have comment?
BARNETT: I was just going back and forth with this heated exchange. And, I guess, you seems to be in a very defensive place and I get that. But, I
think the question that Loni is simply asking is, "If you can point out the problem, help with a solution." So, we are not sitting here fighting and
we are not trying to take your rights way, what solutions are -- your people, NRA, all these groups, what are the solutions they throw on the
table --
PINSKY: But, let me just flip your argument on its head a little bit and say why do not we really arm the people that are psychotic? Why do we
think they should have a gun, because the psychotic people should have guns like anybody else.
SCHLICHTER: No, no, no.
PINSKY: Why not?
SCHLICHTER: First of all, mentally ill people are not allowed to have weapons.
PINSKY: Oh, no, no, no.
SCHLICHTER: Because they are on your form.
PINSKY: No. That form says, "Have you been seen by an agency, a board or been restricted to a hospital." We see people all the time that are
psychotic, but not -- still able to care for themselves and still ruminative but are not able to be hospitalized. It happens all the time.
So, we should -- Jena, you and I, should make sure that person gets a gun.
KRAVITZ: I am just going to keep them in my office, if it is fine.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLICHTER: Please, that is just silly.
PINSKY: Why?
SCHLICHTER: If you do not like --
PINSKY: That is the law you are complying.
SCHLICHTER: If you do not like the ethical rules that your profession operates under and my profession, the lawyers are not helping any with the
--
PINSKY: Thank you for that. Right.
SCHLICHTER: I have absolutely no problem with people you are treating who display a hostile and murderous intent being stopped from having guns.
However, I do not believe normal Americans should have to walk in and ask permission of some priesthood of psychologist to exercise their rights.
PINSKY: No. I am not saying that.
SCHLICHTER: The vast majority of Americans, 99.999 percent are not nuts.
PINSKY: Of course. Of course not.
SCHLICHTER: They are normal. They should not have to get the approval of someone else.
PINSKY: No. No approval. No right.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. No, no, no approval. I am saying. No approval. I am just saying if we are treating somebody that we have an instinct that they
are going to be in trouble and they do not meet criteria for this form, we should still have the ability to exert some control of their access to
guns.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: And, I heard you say you kind of agree with that. So, we are going to get going. We are going to talk about guns and Donald Trump. He
sounds off on weapon, mental illness, mass shootings. Hold it, stay right there, audience member. I am going to get back to you, I promise. We are
back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING AND CHEERING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The second amendment to our constitution is clear. Now, this is in light of what is gone on with
Oregon. You know, every time something happens they blame -- they do not blame mental illness that our mental health care is out of whack and all
the other problems.
And, by the way, it was a gun-free zone. I will tell you, if you had a couple of teachers and somebody with guns in that room, you would have been
a hell of a lot better off.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
[21:40:09] In fact, I have a license to carry in New York. Can you believe that? Nobody knows that. Somebody attacks me, they are going to
be shocked. Can you imagine? Somebody says, "There is Trump, he is easy pickings. What did you say?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There is our Trump giving unfiltered comments on the Oregon shooting. Clearly, he thinks gun control not a good idea. Back with Loni,
Vanessa, Mike, Jena, Kurt and John. I want to get to our audience member, who have something to say about it. I think what we were just talking
about -- Go right ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was just wondering if both sides could be satisfied, perhaps if we just took a little bit more time before
we gave people guns. I think the average wait time is only like three days. You can go get an arsenal.
PINSKY: Kurt --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think --
PINSKY: I think it is ten days according to Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: Ten days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, I think maybe we should do 30 days. Maybe they need a full mental evaluation before you allow them to buy
automatic weapon.
PINSKY: Well, automatic weapons are another story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: But, I agree with Kurt that people should not be subjected to something as a means to access their second amendment privilege. I kind of
agree with you on that. But I do believe it should be easier for us as professionals to restrict it if the community is going to be put at risk.
Because of that individual -- that particular individual is second amendment privilege. And, you kind of agree with me on this.
SCHLICHTER: I kind of do. If someone is already under treatment, that is very different than saying, "Hey, colonel, go talk to a shrink before you
can --
PINSKY: No. I am not saying that. I am saying that we feel completely unable to do our job to keep people safe. I guarantee you that
psychiatrist that secure the kid in Colorado that shot in theatre, that woman must be beside herself because she could not do anything to prevent
that and yet her instinct was she knew that kid was bad.
CATEHRWOOD: You know, the conversation you and Kurt are having right now - -
PINSKY: Productive, right?
CATHERWOOD: It also personifies exactly why we have not made any kind of - -
PINSKY: We are making progress --
CATHERWOOD: I understand that. I said, you and I.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: But, the problem is that the most vocal spokesman for anti- guns and for the pro-gun lifestyle tend to be the ones that do not see anything except for these slippery slope arguments.
PINSKY: Correct.
CATHERWOOD: A lot of times when you hear people say we should ratchet down people`s ability to get guns, it becomes, well now there is going to be a
bunch of people from the government coming to my house and taking my guns way. When you say we should give good guys guns, so we could prevent this,
then it becomes this idea that we are all wanting to live in the wild west and neither is true.
PINSKY: Yes, we are not listening to each other. That is where that is coming from. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The idea of having a psychologist evaluate everyone --
PINSKY: No, no, no, no, no.
COOMBS: No.
PINSKY: No, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not think --
PINSKY: Oh, you like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, I think it is awesome.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because bringing a gun is a big decision.
PINSKY: Well, I get that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You should evaluate someone`s intent.
PINSKY: I get what you are saying.
CATHERWOOD: I am remodeling. I am remodeling my --
COOMBS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I feel that they should not go into that.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No humans.
CATHERWOOD: I am remodeling my --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: -- in the state of California, which is insane. I have to ask 90 people to do anything and get 50 licenses --
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: -- to build something over eight feet high and add ivy to it.
PINSKY: I get it.
CATHERWOOD: How is it possible that I do not have to do the same thing to buy a weapon?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
COOMBS: Yes. I agree.
PINSKY: But, by the way, I still understand what you have to go through.
CATHERWOOD: I agree. I agree.
PINSKY: Adding more bureaucracy is not something I take lightly. But, John, Trump says if the teachers were armed, this would not have happened.
Do you agree with that?
CARDILLO: Yes. I do agree with him. It indulge me for a second, because -- I know Vanessa hates but and wants to cut me off, but let me go.
(LAUGHING)
Right now hold on. There are 50 million illegal guns in the U.S. law enforcement concedes that. If we, for a second, lived in the fantasyland,
progressive dystopia that Vanessa wants, where only bad guys had guns and the government controlled all, let us take a look.
If the government were able to do the impossible and confiscate 90 percent of those guns, there would still be 5 million guns. Now, there are 11,000
gun-related homicides yearly. That means -- Hold on. Hold on.
BARNETT: You do not want me to cut you off? You talk for --
CARDILLO: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on a second. That means that there would still be 450 guns for each homicide only in the hands of criminals.
PINSKY: All right.
BARNETT: Now, one plus one equals two. Look, if you have your gun and stay clear away from me, God almighty, I pray. But, what I will say, it is
incredibly insensitive for someone to get on stage like Donald Trump did and say, "Hey, you dead people, if you would have had guns, you would still
be alive." So, that is essentially what he is saying. So, have your guns. I do not care. So, do not tell people that in order to live you have to
have a gun.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
BARNETT: That is insensitive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. This is touching on something Mike said earlier today. I noticed that 100 percent of the recent mass
shootings have been done by males --
PINSKY: That is --
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: -- typical
CATHERWOOD: And, they will continue to be by guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You are right. And I think it is more of a question --
PINSKY: We should get rid of all men, is that what you --
(LAUGHING)
[21:45:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, I am sorry. I did not want to come off that way, but I think it is more of a question of youth
culture, you know.
PINSKY: Well, I am going to stop you. That is where Mike was going with that. He and I have been talking a lot about that lately.
CATHERWOOD: I came to a conclusion and I am in no way promoting violence, physical violence. But there used to be a day and age where like a guy
picked on you at school or two guys had a problem, scuffle in a bar, and you both agreed, we are going to walk outside and we are going to handle
this and nobody went to jail and no lawyers got called and nobody lost -- no teachers lost their job --
PINSKY: Nobody pulled out a gun or knife.
COOMBS: Right.
CATHERWOOD: Right. And, when you suppress their ability to do that, which we have done completely, then people go cuckoo and they got to pretend halo
is real and bring a gun to schools.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All right. We got to break. Coming up, flooding on an epic scale causing deaths and all kind of misery in South Carolina. I am going to
show you some of that. We got bears in Click Fix -- we got bears against dogs. We have -- Mike, yours is -- all kinds. Be back after this.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where the guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and/or Instagram feeds. Loni, first up.
COOMBS: Yes. So, there is a new four-legged viral video star. I watch this video so many times. It is so funny. This little dog, who is like
only 20 pounds, a French bulldog named Jewels comes out and takes on these bears.
PINSKY: Oh, yeah!
COOMBS: They are so dangerous. So, this family, apparently, has had problems with bears before, which is why they posted the cameras -- the
surveillance cameras. This dog, Jewels, is going after those dogs -- as the bear is actually running over -- Look at them.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I feel bad for the bear.
COOMBS: I know. I know. Have you ever seen bears get run off like that? Anyway, her family treated her and, you know -- over half a million views.
The cutest little face. Anyway, jewels has gotten over half a million views on YouTube, and her family rewarded her with treats and a bath.
There you go.
BARNETT: She should get way more than that.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I know --
BARNETT: The dog deserves like a medal or something.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: That dog did not need a gun.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Vanessa, what do you got?
BARNETT: That was a good one. OK. Instagram post by Perez Hilton, celebrity blogger. It went viral. And, people are kind of up in arms
about it. He posted a photo of him and his son, who is behind him in that picture. And, they are in the shower.
His son is 2 years old. And, he wrote, quote, "Our family motto is fun. We try and incorporate fun into as much of the everyday things we do.
#bathtime." So, people, you know -- obviously he thought the picture would be cute, but people are saying -- That one says, "All I am saying is pops
never took a shower with me. Raising little man to be a cupcake."
PINSKY: No, no, no.
CATHERWOOD: No. Come on.
PINSKY: No. No.
BARNETT: Yes.
COOMBS: He is 2.
BARNETT: He is 2, and people were saying it was creepy and --
PINSKY: It is about the time, where you start putting limits on that kind of thing, you know, that is all. But, it is weird --
BARNETT: But in his defense, he is like, "I do not want to stick my 2- year-old in the shower by himself, you know? He is going to phase it out. He puts on shorts." He says, he puts on shorts.
PINSKY: All right. Fine.
(CROSSTALK)
CATEHRWOOD: If he is home alone, he does not have another parent, like what is he going to do?
PINSKY: If he has a bathing suit on, fine. It is just setting boundaries, boundaries between bodies and whatnot. Mike.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: All right. So, I have a video that your producers, Dr. Drew, are sharing all over their feeds. It is from last week, "Tonight with John
Oliver," and it is called, "When people on television talk crap about their producers." Check it out.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: My producer said, I am disagreeing with him on this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): I really do not like this stuff. Our producer, Anthony Caccitori felt it was necessary to put in here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): My producer cannot fit into this dress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): As you know, I wanted to show the cartoons from the week of the massacre, our lily livered executive producer Tom
Johnson, would not let us do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): And, forgive me if I did not write this or choose this. This is all our producer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Do you know what my intellectual executive producer just whispered my ear? My producer telling me I have to
go and I am, actually, going to take issue with him later.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): My producer said wrap in my ear twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (3): My producer said we need to talk about this the next couple of minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (5): I do not know who my producer is. I do not even know who the director is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Now, of course, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: My producer gave me that name.
CATEHRWOOD: Of course, Dr. Drew, they would not let you off the hook.
PINSKY: Oh, no. Guilty. Guilty.
COOMBS: Oh no!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The tell me I have a secret service name. My producer choice a name for is like Grey Goose, Silver Fox, Dr. Strange Love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let me ask the control room, do we have footage of that whole -- no, not the sound bite we are going to hear in a second. Put that back
where it was, guys. Put that back where it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: My executive producer and me were anxious parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The one thing that -- No, no, no, Bert. No, no, no. Do not do this.
(LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Shame!
CATHERWOOD: Shame on you.
PINSKY: Shame!
CATHERWOOD: Shame on you.
PINSKY: I am telling you, when you are out here -- you know it you feel like you are on a tightrope.
CATHERWOOD: Yes. I like how you do the -- uh-huh. Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Guilty. Let us give producers some love.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: Bababuey, everyone.
PINSKY: We have the best producer in the land. We have a small mean team that gets it done.
CATEHRWOOD: Who are topless.
PINSKY: Yes. Inappropriate humor, you will remember. Anything -- I beg for -- My deepest apology, but it is probably not going to stop.
(LAUGHING)
Next, some thoughts about the South Carolina flooding. The worst in its history. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:55:10] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: And, tonight our thoughts here with the residents of South Carolina, who are enduring catastrophic floods, tens of thousands are
without water and power, dam failures have caused evacuations.
South Carolina Emergency Management has responded to about 3,000 calls for help. Nine people have died in what Governor Nicki Haley calls, a quote,
"Once in a thousand year flood." I certainly hope so.
Hospitals, apparently, not in jeopardy because fire trucks have been able to pump and move hundreds of thousands of gallons of potable drinkable
water to facilities in need. So, some of the acute crisis has been relieved. As we sit out here in our drought, to see that it is a crazy
time right now with the weather. It really is.
Reminder that we are on SnapChat, please join us there. It is DrDrewHLN. DVR us, then you can watch the show, anytime. Join us on the Facebook
after show, which we do immediately following this show. Thank you, panel. Good job, audience. Thank you for watching. We will see you next time.
[22:00:07] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
